"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 10:28:32 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

C5s and C6s change the engine-driven pump to an electric one, which is
triggered as soon as the car's unlocked, to pressurise the suspension
even before the engine's started.

I take it the similar noise I hear on my dizzle C4 is the fuel pump?

Probably. C4s use springs. As, it should be said, do pikey-spec current-
shape C5s. Only the old shape and Exclusive-spec current shape C5s use
hydraulics.

Gs had the fullworks.
Great car only it rusted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_GS#Mechanics

harryagain wrote:
"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 10:28:32 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

C5s and C6s change the engine-driven pump to an electric one, which is
triggered as soon as the car's unlocked, to pressurise the suspension
even before the engine's started.
I take it the similar noise I hear on my dizzle C4 is the fuel pump?
Probably. C4s use springs. As, it should be said, do pikey-spec current-
shape C5s. Only the old shape and Exclusive-spec current shape C5s use
hydraulics.

Gs had the fullworks.
Great car only it rusted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_GS#Mechanics

I had four, one after the other, and they all suffered terminal rust in
the same places. The main place was the cross member behind the bumper,
and at the time, spares weren't available. This was a real shame, as
they were only bolted on, and came out so that you could change the
engine and clutch, which only took a few minutes to take out, and the
same to put back.

Great cars, apart from that. I used to regularly cart about half a ton
of coal at a time home in them, and they didn't struggle at all. They
also stuck to the road like sh1t to an army blanket.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 23:31:18 +0100, Vir Campestris wrote:

The days of a steel wire/boden cable going from the accelarator pedal
to the throttle device are long gone.
It's a copper wire now and you are in the hands of your computer.

Both my car and my wife's have a cable and direct mechanical control of
the butterfly. OK, they aren't new, but those days are not "long gone".

It is possible to buy a new car without multiplexed electronics and
without drive-by-wire throttle. Just.

On 09/08/2013 06:42, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 08/08/2013 18:35, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 08/08/2013 06:30, harryagain wrote:
"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Bob Eager
writes
On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 17:28:27 +0100, harryagain wrote:

Reading one of SWMBO's crime novels.

The victim is murdered by cutting a car brake line.
Though it was a pre dual circuit car I reckon I would know the
instant
I
wnet to start the engine there was a fault as I always put my foot
on
the brake. Even without that, there are few circumstance wher nor
having a foot brake would kill you.
I can't think of a single way to sabotage a car to guarantee death
short
of explosives.

There's the BMW serial bus hack via the tyre pressure sensors on the
older ones.

Then tell the car to accelerate hard, and put ONE front brake on.



Back in eh 60s some apprentices at an aircraft factory designed an a
antitheft system for the wages van. Unless a hidden switch was flicked
within 3 minutes of starting up the engine would cut out and the
steering
would go hard right. Needless to say they were told to take it off.


Obvious urban myth.
How would the steering in a 1960's car be made to go hard right?

If it had rack and pinion steering, add an hydraulic cylinder from the
landing gear of one of the aircraft. For any sort of steering, fit a
large
motor to the steering column, using a worm drive to prevent anyone from
being able to resist it.

So how would the steering wheel be turned whilst the motor was
unenergised/...

The drive would be disconnected under normal conditions and engaged with a
dog clutch when required. However, bearing in mind this was something
thought up by engineering apprentices, it would probably have ended up
being something far more complex.

And I suppose the victim won't notice their car is missing for weeks whilst
all this is being done?

It was the wages van for an aircraft factory. It wouldn't have needed to
go missing for weeks, nor did they have any need to make what happened
look like an accident. I'm not saying they did it in either of the ways
I suggest, although I think the hydraulic cylinder is a good candidate.
I was simply giving a couple of straightforward answers to your question
of how to make the steering on a 1960s car go hard right. It is not
something that I would consider beyond a group of engineering
apprentices of the period with access to all the equipment in an
aircraft factory.

Colin Bignell

Nightjar wrote:
On 09/08/2013 06:42, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 08/08/2013 18:35, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 08/08/2013 06:30, harryagain wrote:
"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Bob Eager
writes
On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 17:28:27 +0100, harryagain wrote:

Reading one of SWMBO's crime novels.

The victim is murdered by cutting a car brake line.
Though it was a pre dual circuit car I reckon I would know the
instant
I
wnet to start the engine there was a fault as I always put my foot
on
the brake. Even without that, there are few circumstance wher nor
having a foot brake would kill you.
I can't think of a single way to sabotage a car to guarantee death
short
of explosives.

There's the BMW serial bus hack via the tyre pressure sensors on the
older ones.

Then tell the car to accelerate hard, and put ONE front brake on.



Back in eh 60s some apprentices at an aircraft factory designed an a
antitheft system for the wages van. Unless a hidden switch was flicked
within 3 minutes of starting up the engine would cut out and the
steering
would go hard right. Needless to say they were told to take it off.


Obvious urban myth.
How would the steering in a 1960's car be made to go hard right?

If it had rack and pinion steering, add an hydraulic cylinder from the
landing gear of one of the aircraft. For any sort of steering, fit a
large
motor to the steering column, using a worm drive to prevent anyone from
being able to resist it.

So how would the steering wheel be turned whilst the motor was
unenergised/...

The drive would be disconnected under normal conditions and engaged with a
dog clutch when required. However, bearing in mind this was something
thought up by engineering apprentices, it would probably have ended up
being something far more complex.

And I suppose the victim won't notice their car is missing for weeks whilst
all this is being done?

It was the wages van for an aircraft factory. It wouldn't have needed to
go missing for weeks, nor did they have any need to make what happened
look like an accident. I'm not saying they did it in either of the ways I
suggest, although I think the hydraulic cylinder is a good candidate. I
was simply giving a couple of straightforward answers to your question of
how to make the steering on a 1960s car go hard right. It is not
something that I would consider beyond a group of engineering apprentices
of the period with access to all the equipment in an aircraft factory.

Colin Bignell

Strikes me as implausible because as an anti-theft system it's so obviously
dangerous to third parties. A wages van slewing across the road into
incoming traffic does not seem a smart way to deter or catch thieves.

I would imagine that anyone fitting such a system could find themselves
liable for damages and injuries caused.

Tim

On 09/08/2013 08:56, Tim+ wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 09/08/2013 06:42, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 08/08/2013 18:35, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 08/08/2013 06:30, harryagain wrote:
"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Bob Eager
writes
On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 17:28:27 +0100, harryagain wrote:

Reading one of SWMBO's crime novels.

The victim is murdered by cutting a car brake line.
Though it was a pre dual circuit car I reckon I would know the
instant
I
wnet to start the engine there was a fault as I always put my foot
on
the brake. Even without that, there are few circumstance wher nor
having a foot brake would kill you.
I can't think of a single way to sabotage a car to guarantee death
short
of explosives.

There's the BMW serial bus hack via the tyre pressure sensors on the
older ones.

Then tell the car to accelerate hard, and put ONE front brake on.



Back in eh 60s some apprentices at an aircraft factory designed an a
antitheft system for the wages van. Unless a hidden switch was flicked
within 3 minutes of starting up the engine would cut out and the
steering
would go hard right. Needless to say they were told to take it off.


Obvious urban myth.
How would the steering in a 1960's car be made to go hard right?

If it had rack and pinion steering, add an hydraulic cylinder from the
landing gear of one of the aircraft. For any sort of steering, fit a
large
motor to the steering column, using a worm drive to prevent anyone from
being able to resist it.

So how would the steering wheel be turned whilst the motor was
unenergised/...

The drive would be disconnected under normal conditions and engaged with a
dog clutch when required. However, bearing in mind this was something
thought up by engineering apprentices, it would probably have ended up
being something far more complex.

And I suppose the victim won't notice their car is missing for weeks whilst
all this is being done?

It was the wages van for an aircraft factory. It wouldn't have needed to
go missing for weeks, nor did they have any need to make what happened
look like an accident. I'm not saying they did it in either of the ways I
suggest, although I think the hydraulic cylinder is a good candidate. I
was simply giving a couple of straightforward answers to your question of
how to make the steering on a 1960s car go hard right. It is not
something that I would consider beyond a group of engineering apprentices
of the period with access to all the equipment in an aircraft factory.

Colin Bignell

Strikes me as implausible because as an anti-theft system it's so obviously
dangerous to third parties. A wages van slewing across the road into
incoming traffic does not seem a smart way to deter or catch thieves.

I would imagine that anyone fitting such a system could find themselves
liable for damages and injuries caused.

It strikes me as exactly the sort of thing a group of engineering
apprentices would have come up with - impractical, dangerous and
needlessly complex.

Colin Bignell

"harryagain" wrote:
"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
"harryagain" wrote:
"Onetap" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, August 6, 2013 5:28:27 PM UTC+1, harry wrote:
Reading one of SWMBO's crime novels.



The victim is murdered by cutting a car brake line.

Though it was a pre dual circuit car I reckon I would know the instant
I

wnet to start the engine there was a fault as I always put my foot on
the

brake. Even without that, there are few circumstance wher nor having a
foot

brake would kill you.

I can't think of a single way to sabotage a car to guarantee death
short
of

explosives.



Stupid plot. These authors must be like journalists, thick as ****.

Writing for a technically illiterate readership.

Some chav tried that on a car belonging to one of his neighbours , about
10 years ago ISTR.

The flexible hydraulic hose he cut was not for the braking system, but
the
suspension.
He may have realised the difference in the short time between the
Citroen
settling gracefully onto him and his expiry from asphyxiation a short
time
later.

Heh. Excellent urban myth
The only thing is, the Citroen sinks/sank to it's lowest level anyway
when
the engine is shut off.

No that's cobblers. It takes time for Cit to sink on its suspension. My
Cits were all still at normal ride height after being parked overnight. A
Citroen less than ten years old will (probably) have Hydractive 3
suspension and will not settle on its suspension.

Also the brakes and suspension ran off the same system.

Which tends to confirm an element of the tale.

Interestingly, you had no brakes at all if the engine was not running.

Again cobblers. There was enough reserve of pressure in the system to
allow
the brakes to work.

Handbrake wasn't particularly efficient either.

Cobblers.

The hancbrake was crap. It worked on the front discs which were located
immediately in frontof the dashboard.
Four little pads the size of old pennies.
There was a weird system of levers and pulleys.

I once put my foot on the footbrake of mine (engine not ruinning) and let
the handbrake off. It ran away though the pedal was as hard as a rock.

As an ex owner, I know you are full of ****.

And your car was less than ten years old was it harry? Perhaps you should
read the OP.

Or stop bull****ting.

The fact that you can't drive doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 16:56:39 +0000, Steve Firth wrote:

Handbrake wasn't particularly efficient either.

Cobblers.

How many CXs have you had, Steve? The handbrake's a once-a-year MOT high
point thing.

The cars being talked about were less than ten years old.

I've not had handbrake problems on any of the BX's that I owned and they
were back in the 80s.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

Onetap wrote:
On Thursday, August 8, 2013 5:56:39 PM UTC+1, Steve Firth wrote:

I don't believe a word of it.



Whether those reports were accurate is another matter.



Whether they existed outside your imagination another.



You could probably find some reference to the incident if you were to

rummage through newspaper cuttings libraries.



Off you go then. Until you do what you say is purest bull****.


Ah, Firth has pitched in.

Sorry Stevie, you're wrong.
Chav bloke was found pinned under a car with a sharp instrument.

You're making it up.

You're the main bull**** merchant and it usually involves your fables
about how awesome Steve Firth is.

You're making that up too. A pattern us developing.

I can distinctly recall the press reports and have no reason to lie about it.

So what? You're a habitual liar and you're unlikely to change your spots.
You even lie about who you are.

That's all there is to it.

Sadly for you, no. Repeated assertion of your lies isn't proof.

If you have the proof, post it. Otherwise you're just the sound of one
idiot bull****ting.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On Fri, 9 Aug 2013 06:42:17 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:

And I suppose the victim won't notice their car is missing for weeks whilst
all this is being done?

"Works van".

On Friday, August 9, 2013 9:38:20 AM UTC+1, Steve Firth wrote:
Onetap wrote:

So what? You're a habitual liar and you're unlikely to change your spots.

You even lie about who you are.



That's all there is to it.



Sadly for you, no. Repeated assertion of your lies isn't proof.



If you have the proof, post it. Otherwise you're just the sound of one

idiot bull****ting.

So far, we have had the Firth recommendations on digging holes, as recommended by Super Firth, legendary digger of ship canals in several minutes.

Except, as it turned out, Firth can't tell a spade from a shovel and has probably never dug anything other than sand castles.

Then we have Super Firth, stalked by the naked ninja assassins of Smersh.
More ********.

On the other hand, we have a nameless bloke, aka Onetap, who says he recalls press reports of some chav squashed by a car whilst sabotaging it.
Believe or disbelieve, but there are no ulterior motives in my repeating the story. Onetap had no part in it. Believing it will not add to or subtract from Onetap's "status".

I can't be bothered with you.

On Thu, 8 Aug 2013 06:33:48 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:


"The Other Mike" wrote in message
.. .

Buy them an electric car and watch them die of terminal boredom. However,
getting anyone but a complete cretin to accept the gift is going to be a
huge
and problem.

Have you ever driven one?

Several. Hence why I posted what I did. They were all universally ****e, even
the one costing the price of a house in the North.

--

Onetap wrote:
On Friday, August 9, 2013 9:38:20 AM UTC+1, Steve Firth wrote:
Onetap wrote:

So what? You're a habitual liar and you're unlikely to change your spots.

You even lie about who you are.



That's all there is to it.



Sadly for you, no. Repeated assertion of your lies isn't proof.



If you have the proof, post it. Otherwise you're just the sound of one

idiot bull****ting.

So far, we have had the Firth recommendations on digging holes, as
recommended by Super Firth, legendary digger of ship canals in several minutes.

Oh look, you're telling lies, again.

Except, as it turned out, Firth can't tell a spade from a shovel and has
probably never dug anything other than sand castles.

Oh look, you're telling lies, again.

Then we have Super Firth, stalked by the naked ninja assassins of Smersh.

Oh look, you're telling lies, again.

More ********.

Indeed you're talking ********. The first true thing you have said.

On the other hand, we have a nameless bloke, aka Onetap, who says he
recalls press reports of some chav squashed by a car whilst sabotaging it.

Yes, we have a nameless coward retelling an urban legend and insisting that
it is true.

Believe or disbelieve, but there are no ulterior motives in my repeating
the story. Onetap had no part in it. Believing it will not add to or
subtract from Onetap's "status".

You're a caught out bull**** merchant.

I can't be bothered with you.

That was a lot of typing for someone who "can't be bothered". i.e. You've
been caught out in another lie.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On Friday, August 9, 2013 12:38:24 PM UTC+1, Steve Firth wrote:
Onetap wrote:

Yes, we have a nameless coward retelling an urban legend and insisting that

it is true.


If I ever needed justification for witholding my real name, you have provided it, in spades, so to speak.

You are a pathetic, walting, clueless tosser.

Believe or disbelieve, but there are no ulterior motives in my repeating

the story. Onetap had no part in it. Believing it will not add to or

subtract from Onetap's "status".



You're a caught out bull**** merchant.



I can't be bothered with you.



That was a lot of typing for someone who "can't be bothered". i.e. You've

been caught out in another lie.



Just filling in the background, for the benefit of those who don't give a stuff.
I'm trying to break the bad news to you gently, Stevie.

You're a sad ******.

On 08/08/2013 14:42, Onetap wrote:
On Thursday, August 8, 2013 6:49:43 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:

Heh. Excellent urban myth

The only thing is, the Citroen sinks/sank to it's lowest level
anyway when

the engine is shut off.

Also the brakes and suspension ran off the same system.


Not an urban myth, actually happened, reported in the papers as I
have said. Whether those reports were accurate is another matter.
You could probably find some reference to the incident if you were
to rummage through newspaper cuttings libraries.


They ran off the same hydraulic pump, though I thought the baking system
had a separate accumulator.

Some had rear brakes which had a variable pressure limit according to
the suspension are position, ie weight proportionate.

On Fri, 09 Aug 2013 08:38:19 +0000, Steve Firth wrote:

Handbrake wasn't particularly efficient either.

Cobblers.

How many CXs have you had, Steve? The handbrake's a once-a-year MOT
high point thing.

The cars being talked about were less than ten years old.

Umm, no. Quite the opposite. The original quote was "about ten years
ago", no mention of the age of vehicle. But the thread's moved on anyway.

On Fri, 09 Aug 2013 16:36:37 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

They ran off the same hydraulic pump, though I thought the baking system
had a separate accumulator.

Only on CXs and SMs, where it was needed because of the very high demands
of the self-centring steering.

Some had rear brakes which had a variable pressure limit according to
the suspension are position, ie weight proportionate.

All hydraulically suspended Citroens take the rear brake pressure from
the rear suspension circuit, so - yep - load-proportioning.

Fredxx wrote:
On 08/08/2013 14:42, Onetap wrote:
On Thursday, August 8, 2013 6:49:43 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:

Heh. Excellent urban myth

The only thing is, the Citroen sinks/sank to it's lowest level
anyway when

the engine is shut off.

Also the brakes and suspension ran off the same system.


Not an urban myth, actually happened, reported in the papers as I
have said. Whether those reports were accurate is another matter.
You could probably find some reference to the incident if you were
to rummage through newspaper cuttings libraries.


They ran off the same hydraulic pump, though I thought the baking system
had a separate accumulator.

On the BX's and GSA's that I had, the accumulator was shared between the
suspension and the brakes, as was the pump.

In the event of failure of the pressure system, the brakes reverted to a
standard non-servo system operated by the pedal. As you can imagine,
this was just enough to bring you to a gradual halt, especially as only
the front brakes worked in this scenario.

Some had rear brakes which had a variable pressure limit according to
the suspension are position, ie weight proportionate.

GSA's and BX's had this. It was an excellent system, as no matter nhow
much weight you put into the back of the car, the pedal pressure
required to stop or slow down hardly changed.

If a Citroen sank to the ground overnight, it needed either new spheres
or a replacement accumulator. If the pressure regulator clicked as well,
it was the accumulator. Either way, it takes a maximum of half an hour
per sphere, from putting the jack under the car to driving away. If they
aren't too far gone, the spheres can be recharged with gas for another
few months of smoothness, rinse and repeat as required.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Fri, 09 Aug 2013 16:47:30 +0100, John Williamson wrote:

In the event of failure of the pressure system, the brakes reverted to a
standard non-servo system operated by the pedal.

No, they didn't...

The brake valve merely allows pump-generated pressure through to the
brake circuit. It doesn't generate pressure at all.

Adrian wrote:
On Fri, 09 Aug 2013 16:47:30 +0100, John Williamson wrote:

In the event of failure of the pressure system, the brakes reverted to a
standard non-servo system operated by the pedal.

No, they didn't...

The brake valve merely allows pump-generated pressure through to the
brake circuit. It doesn't generate pressure at all.

Ah, I'll tell Citroen to re-write the owner's manual, then.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Fri, 09 Aug 2013 16:59:01 +0100, John Williamson wrote:

In the event of failure of the pressure system, the brakes reverted to
a standard non-servo system operated by the pedal.

No, they didn't...

The brake valve merely allows pump-generated pressure through to the
brake circuit. It doesn't generate pressure at all.

Ah, I'll tell Citroen to re-write the owner's manual, then.

What model? Care to quote what it actually says? Or are we going off
memory...?

Every hydraulic Cit manual I've ever seen (hydraulic-wise, I've only
owned four CXs, two XMs, and one GSA - so far) says something which could
be paraphrsed as "If the red STOP light comes on, IT ****ING WELL MEANS
STOP. NOW." - and, if the stop light comes on because of low pressure,
then you've still got pressure for several stops from speed, assuming the
accumulator sphere's not ****ed. There's a safety valve in there that
stops pressure being used for steering and suspension when it gets low,
leaving what's left for the brakes.

Yes, you could find yourself out of brakes - but only if your car's so
badly maintained as to be unroadworthy...

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 23:31:18 +0100, Vir Campestris wrote:

The days of a steel wire/boden cable going from the accelarator pedal
to the throttle device are long gone.
It's a copper wire now and you are in the hands of your computer.

Both my car and my wife's have a cable and direct mechanical control of
the butterfly. OK, they aren't new, but those days are not "long gone".

It is possible to buy a new car without multiplexed electronics and
without drive-by-wire throttle. Just.

I expect you could get something from a third world country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automot...stry_in_Mexico

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
harryagain wrote:
"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 10:28:32 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

C5s and C6s change the engine-driven pump to an electric one, which is
triggered as soon as the car's unlocked, to pressurise the suspension
even before the engine's started.
I take it the similar noise I hear on my dizzle C4 is the fuel pump?
Probably. C4s use springs. As, it should be said, do pikey-spec current-
shape C5s. Only the old shape and Exclusive-spec current shape C5s use
hydraulics.

Gs had the fullworks.
Great car only it rusted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_GS#Mechanics
I had four, one after the other, and they all suffered terminal rust in
the same places. The main place was the cross member behind the bumper,
and at the time, spares weren't available. This was a real shame, as they
were only bolted on, and came out so that you could change the engine and
clutch, which only took a few minutes to take out, and the same to put
back.

Great cars, apart from that. I used to regularly cart about half a ton of
coal at a time home in them, and they didn't struggle at all. They also
stuck to the road like sh1t to an army blanket.


I had the estate. Sharp in the front blunt at the back and brown.
Looked exactly like a turd.

Weird to drive at first..
After six weeks you realised Citroen was right and everyone else was wrong.

Ergonomically near perfect too, shame about the rust.

On Fri, 09 Aug 2013 17:52:35 +0100, harryagain wrote:

It is possible to buy a new car without multiplexed electronics and
without drive-by-wire throttle. Just.

I expect you could get something from a third world country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automot...stry_in_Mexico

I was thinking of cars built in a Japanese-owned factory in the EU,
actually.

"Onetap" wrote in message
...
On Friday, August 9, 2013 9:38:20 AM UTC+1, Steve Firth wrote:
Onetap wrote:

So what? You're a habitual liar and you're unlikely to change your spots.

You even lie about who you are.



That's all there is to it.



Sadly for you, no. Repeated assertion of your lies isn't proof.



If you have the proof, post it. Otherwise you're just the sound of one

idiot bull****ting.

So far, we have had the Firth recommendations on digging holes, as
recommended by Super Firth, legendary digger of ship canals in several
minutes.

Except, as it turned out, Firth can't tell a spade from a shovel and has
probably never dug anything other than sand castles.

Then we have Super Firth, stalked by the naked ninja assassins of Smersh.
More ********.

On the other hand, we have a nameless bloke, aka Onetap, who says he
recalls press reports of some chav squashed by a car whilst sabotaging it.
Believe or disbelieve, but there are no ulterior motives in my repeating
the story. Onetap had no part in it. Believing it will not add to or
subtract from Onetap's "status".

I can't be bothered with you.


It could be right. If the chav cut the suspension pipe, the car would drop
like a stone onto him.

ISTR there was about 6"/150mm ground clearance when it sank to lowest
position.
So the real question is, "Could a chav survive in a space of 6"?"
Only a very small one I think.

I have to say, I enjoy thinking about that one.

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 08/08/2013 14:42, Onetap wrote:
On Thursday, August 8, 2013 6:49:43 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:

Heh. Excellent urban myth

The only thing is, the Citroen sinks/sank to it's lowest level
anyway when

the engine is shut off.

Also the brakes and suspension ran off the same system.


Not an urban myth, actually happened, reported in the papers as I
have said. Whether those reports were accurate is another matter.
You could probably find some reference to the incident if you were
to rummage through newspaper cuttings libraries.


They ran off the same hydraulic pump, though I thought the baking system
had a separate accumulator.

Some had rear brakes which had a variable pressure limit according to
the suspension are position, ie weight proportionate.

That they did.
If no-one ever rode in the back, the rear brakes never worked and the disc
rusted up.
Big problem for the MOT.

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
Adrian wrote:
On Fri, 09 Aug 2013 16:47:30 +0100, John Williamson wrote:

In the event of failure of the pressure system, the brakes reverted to a
standard non-servo system operated by the pedal.

No, they didn't...

The brake valve merely allows pump-generated pressure through to the
brake circuit. It doesn't generate pressure at all.

Ah, I'll tell Citroen to re-write the owner's manual, then.

I think he's right.
You had absolutely no brakes if the engine wasn't running.
The pedal was like a rock too.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
"harryagain" wrote:
"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
"harryagain" wrote:
"Onetap" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, August 6, 2013 5:28:27 PM UTC+1, harry wrote:
Reading one of SWMBO's crime novels.



The victim is murdered by cutting a car brake line.

Though it was a pre dual circuit car I reckon I would know the
instant
I

wnet to start the engine there was a fault as I always put my foot on
the

brake. Even without that, there are few circumstance wher nor having
a
foot

brake would kill you.

I can't think of a single way to sabotage a car to guarantee death
short
of

explosives.



Stupid plot. These authors must be like journalists, thick as ****.

Writing for a technically illiterate readership.

Some chav tried that on a car belonging to one of his neighbours ,
about
10 years ago ISTR.

The flexible hydraulic hose he cut was not for the braking system, but
the
suspension.
He may have realised the difference in the short time between the
Citroen
settling gracefully onto him and his expiry from asphyxiation a short
time
later.

Heh. Excellent urban myth
The only thing is, the Citroen sinks/sank to it's lowest level anyway
when
the engine is shut off.

No that's cobblers. It takes time for Cit to sink on its suspension. My
Cits were all still at normal ride height after being parked overnight.
A
Citroen less than ten years old will (probably) have Hydractive 3
suspension and will not settle on its suspension.

Also the brakes and suspension ran off the same system.

Which tends to confirm an element of the tale.

Interestingly, you had no brakes at all if the engine was not running.

Again cobblers. There was enough reserve of pressure in the system to
allow
the brakes to work.

Handbrake wasn't particularly efficient either.

Cobblers.

The hancbrake was crap. It worked on the front discs which were located
immediately in frontof the dashboard.
Four little pads the size of old pennies.
There was a weird system of levers and pulleys.

I once put my foot on the footbrake of mine (engine not ruinning) and let
the handbrake off. It ran away though the pedal was as hard as a rock.

As an ex owner, I know you are full of ****.

And your car was less than ten years old was it harry? Perhaps you should
read the OP.

Or stop bull****ting.

The fact that you can't drive doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Oh? I have passed my advance driving test. (As a teenager)
How about you?

On Fri, 09 Aug 2013 18:09:09 +0100, harryagain wrote:

Some had rear brakes which had a variable pressure limit according to
the suspension are position, ie weight proportionate.

That they did.
If no-one ever rode in the back, the rear brakes never worked and the
disc rusted up.

Kinda. The caliper got a bit sticky, and the disc surface got a light
coating.

Big problem for the MOT.

Not a big problem. Either lob your toolbox or a bag of cement in the boot
for the week before, or just spend ten minutes with a wire brush and
copaslip before the test.

At least, that's the theory. Which is why, when I bought a GSA with an
MOT fail sheet that only consisted of "NSR brake ineffective", I wasn't
bothered.

Until I tried to remove the wheel. It wouldn't come out the arch easily.
Suspension on high, and wangle it out. Some numpty had unbolted the hub
nut, and levered the brake disc out, bending the caliper's bracket so the
caliper was 45deg to the arm. Then they'd unbolted the disc from the hub,
put the hub and wheel back on and flogged the car.

It only had one rear disc. That was why that brake was ineffective...

On Fri, 09 Aug 2013 18:16:21 +0100, harryagain wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
-
september.org...
"harryagain" wrote:
"Steve Firth" wrote in message
-
september.org...
"harryagain" wrote:
"Onetap" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, August 6, 2013 5:28:27 PM UTC+1, harry wrote:
Reading one of SWMBO's crime novels.



The victim is murdered by cutting a car brake line.

Though it was a pre dual circuit car I reckon I would know the
instant I

wnet to start the engine there was a fault as I always put my foot
on the

brake. Even without that, there are few circumstance wher nor
having a
foot

brake would kill you.

I can't think of a single way to sabotage a car to guarantee death
short of

explosives.



Stupid plot. These authors must be like journalists, thick as
****.

Writing for a technically illiterate readership.

Some chav tried that on a car belonging to one of his neighbours ,
about 10 years ago ISTR.

The flexible hydraulic hose he cut was not for the braking system,
but the suspension.
He may have realised the difference in the short time between the
Citroen settling gracefully onto him and his expiry from
asphyxiation a short time later.

Heh. Excellent urban myth The only thing is, the Citroen sinks/sank
to it's lowest level anyway when the engine is shut off.

No that's cobblers. It takes time for Cit to sink on its suspension.
My Cits were all still at normal ride height after being parked
overnight.
A
Citroen less than ten years old will (probably) have Hydractive 3
suspension and will not settle on its suspension.

Also the brakes and suspension ran off the same system.

Which tends to confirm an element of the tale.

Interestingly, you had no brakes at all if the engine was not
running.

Again cobblers. There was enough reserve of pressure in the system to
allow the brakes to work.

Handbrake wasn't particularly efficient either.

Cobblers.

The hancbrake was crap. It worked on the front discs which were
located immediately in frontof the dashboard.
Four little pads the size of old pennies.
There was a weird system of levers and pulleys.

I once put my foot on the footbrake of mine (engine not ruinning) and
let the handbrake off. It ran away though the pedal was as hard as a
rock.

As an ex owner, I know you are full of ****.

And your car was less than ten years old was it harry? Perhaps you
should read the OP.

Or stop bull****ting.

The fact that you can't drive doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Oh? I have passed my advance driving test. (As a teenager)
How about you?

Why did you take it in advance?



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"Mr Pounder" wrote in message
...

"harryagain" wrote in message
...
Reading one of SWMBO's crime novels.

The victim is murdered by cutting a car brake line.
Though it was a pre dual circuit car I reckon I would know the instant I
wnet to start the engine there was a fault as I always put my foot on
the brake. Even without that, there are few circumstance wher nor
having a foot brake would kill you.
I can't think of a single way to sabotage a car to guarantee death short
of explosives.

Stupid plot. These authors must be like journalists, thick as ****.

In the old days of black and white movies that was how it was done.

Only the wealthy had cars back then and most people didn't know any
better.
And Roy Rogers could unerringly shoot someone down at fifty yards with his
six shooter.

It happened all the time in Danger Man and The Saint.
I can't remember it happening in Z Cars or Fireball XL5.

On Fri, 9 Aug 2013 17:32:29 +0000 (UTC), Adrian
wrote:

Until I tried to remove the wheel. It wouldn't come out the arch easily.
Suspension on high, and wangle it out. Some numpty had unbolted the hub
nut, and levered the brake disc out, bending the caliper's bracket so the
caliper was 45deg to the arm. Then they'd unbolted the disc from the hub,
put the hub and wheel back on and flogged the car.

It only had one rear disc. That was why that brake was ineffective...

Lol!

wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 August 2013 18:54:24 UTC+2, Nightjar wrote:

OTOH, in real life, there have been several

convictions for attempted murder after brake pipes were cut.


Prince Charles got away with it.

I believe that was Phillip:-)

--
Adam

In article ,
ARW wrote:
wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 August 2013 18:54:24 UTC+2, Nightjar wrote:

OTOH, in real life, there have been several

convictions for attempted murder after brake pipes were cut.


Prince Charles got away with it.

I believe that was Phillip:-)

you believe the Phoney Pharaoh, do you?

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

GB wrote:
On 06/08/2013 17:48, ARW wrote:
Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 17:28:27 +0100, harryagain wrote:

The victim is murdered by cutting a car brake line.
Though it was a pre dual circuit car I reckon I would know the
instant I wnet to start the engine there was a fault as I always
put my foot on the brake.

And the great big red warning light for low fluid, which's been a
legal requirement for decades, would also be a hint.

I s'pose you could severely weaken a line - probably a flexi would
be easiest, so that it'd blow at some stage in the very near future
but not immediately.

Back in 2000 I had a 1994 VH Cavalier and a wife with L plates. So I
took her to an unopened bypass for a little practice.

I said that she needed to slow down a little earlier when approaching
roundabouts. She said that she had put her foot down on the brake as
hard as she could and the pedal had gone all the way down.


A split hose to the caliper was the cause.

I did decided not to drive home (7 miles away) but to my parents -
less than two miles away and let the gears and gravity do the
breaking.

Did your parents have a washing machine?

Yes, and they had a car that I was insured to drive.

--
Adam

Jim K wrote:
Unopened bypass for a little practice?

Is that a euphemism?

Jim K

:-)

--
Adam

charles wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 August 2013 18:54:24 UTC+2, Nightjar wrote:

OTOH, in real life, there have been several

convictions for attempted murder after brake pipes were cut.


Prince Charles got away with it.

I believe that was Phillip:-)

you believe the Phoney Pharaoh, do you?

I do not read the Daily Express so I am not up on the latest conspiracy
theories about Di:-)

I get my facts from viz magazine.

--
Adam

Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
"ARW" wrote:

charles wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 August 2013 18:54:24 UTC+2, Nightjar wrote:

OTOH, in real life, there have been several

convictions for attempted murder after brake pipes were cut.


Prince Charles got away with it.

I believe that was Phillip:-)

you believe the Phoney Pharaoh, do you?

I do not read the Daily Express so I am not up on the latest
conspiracy theories about Di:-)

I get my facts from viz magazine.

They still have Sid and Baz? And San and Tray?

No point in San and Tray without Baz.

--
Adam

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 01:00:14 +0100, Artic wrote:

harryagain scribbled...


Reading one of SWMBO's crime novels.

The victim is murdered by cutting a car brake line.
Though it was a pre dual circuit car I reckon I would know the instant
I wnet to start the engine there was a fault as I always put my foot on
the brake. Even without that, there are few circumstance wher nor
having a foot brake would kill you.
I can't think of a single way to sabotage a car to guarantee death
short of explosives.

Stupid plot. These authors must be like journalists, thick as ****.


Had a Ford Anglia, the split pin holding the brake pedal pivot broke,
the pivot fell out, so I was unable to brake with the pedal lying on the
floor. Turning the engine off worked.

Certain mechanical failures on the Austin A35/A40 could be nasty, as
there were not two independent braking systems. The handbrake and
hydraulic brake shared many components (there was a single slave cylinder
mounted on the chassis at the rear, which operated the same linkage as
the handbrake).

Brand new Vauxhall Vivaro van.
Sat in it drinking coffee. Rested foot on brake pedal. Pedal fell off.
The AA man declined to comment.