In message

g, Steve Firth writes
geoff wrote:
[snip]

I think you'll find the cameras only operate when the variable speed
limit is in operation, since that's their declared purpose

I know that you will find that your statement is incorrect. The cameras
also function when VSL is not in operation. Finding out what limit the
cameras are set for is difficult, but I have seen cameras flashing drivers
exceeding 100mph in areas where VSL gantries exist but were not in
operation. Also I used to work at the HA and was involved in planning the
first controlled motorways in England

The world has changed since the 1950s. "Speed cameras" became "safety
cameras" and were coloured yellow, motorway gantry cameras in VSL zones
are there to enforce the posted speed

do I know that the cameras were
specced to be active 24/7.

I would say I have significantly more recent experience of the M25 north
and west of london and the lower end of the M1 than you


--
geoff

In message , Arfa Daily
writes


"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the
same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences
for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this
morning in her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end,
where the back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple of
years. She reckons that she was not much over the top - for a change
- but probably enough to have tripped them. I've not been able to
find much info on multiple instances on the same stretch. Lots of
barrack room lawyers huffing and puffing and giving opinions based on
nothing, but no definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link to
somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation is ?

She's going Daaaaaahn ...

I presume you're talking about the dunstable - Luton (junc 11-9) area

Correct ...


I've never seen a flash from those gantry cameras... until today when
I was going past in a northerly direction. LOTS of vehicles got
flashed in the southerly direction.

That was what she found. She said that she could not recall them being
on in the last couple of years. She has been travelling that section
regularly for the last 9 years as she was at university in Kingston,
and back and forth all the time, before then living down there, then
coming back up here, and starting the job that takes her back most
days. Still, she was southbound at the time, and if you saw a lot of
southers getting flashed, that doesn't bode well for her

It certainly made me check my speed on the return journey

I saw flashes from three gantries

...

Arfa



I think you can get multiple offences to be "taken into
consideration", but I'm not certain

-- geoff


--
geoff

geoff wrote:
In message
, Steve Firth writes
geoff wrote:
[snip]

I think you'll find the cameras only operate when the variable speed
limit is in operation, since that's their declared purpose

I know that you will find that your statement is incorrect. The cameras
also function when VSL is not in operation. Finding out what limit the
cameras are set for is difficult, but I have seen cameras flashing drivers
exceeding 100mph in areas where VSL gantries exist but were not in
operation. Also I used to work at the HA and was involved in planning the
first controlled motorways in England

The world has changed since the 1950s. "Speed cameras" became "safety
cameras" and were coloured yellow, motorway gantry cameras in VSL zones
are there to enforce the posted speed

The important word you are missing out or not understanding is
"controlled". I didn't design the first motorways in England, I worked on
the design if the first *controlled* motorways in England. ie The first
motorways to use variable speed limits with enforcement using cameras
linked to the mandatory (red ring) indicators.

For the avoidance of doubt these were the M25 scheme and the M42.

do I know that the cameras were
specced to be active 24/7.

I would say I have significantly more recent experience of the M25 north
and west of london and the lower end of the M1 than you

See above, you really don't.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

In message

g, Steve Firth writes
geoff wrote:
In message
-september.or
, Steve Firth writes
geoff wrote:
[snip]

I think you'll find the cameras only operate when the variable speed
limit is in operation, since that's their declared purpose

I know that you will find that your statement is incorrect. The cameras
also function when VSL is not in operation. Finding out what limit the
cameras are set for is difficult, but I have seen cameras flashing drivers
exceeding 100mph in areas where VSL gantries exist but were not in
operation. Also I used to work at the HA and was involved in planning the
first controlled motorways in England

The world has changed since the 1950s. "Speed cameras" became "safety
cameras" and were coloured yellow, motorway gantry cameras in VSL zones
are there to enforce the posted speed

The important word you are missing out or not understanding is
"controlled". I didn't design the first motorways in England, I worked on
the design if the first *controlled* motorways in England. ie The first
motorways to use variable speed limits with enforcement using cameras
linked to the mandatory (red ring) indicators.

For the avoidance of doubt these were the M25 scheme and the M42.

do I know that the cameras were
specced to be active 24/7.

I would say I have significantly more recent experience of the M25 north
and west of london and the lower end of the M1 than you

See above, you really don't.

Use them both on a daily basis do you ragazzo ?


--
geoff

On 11/05/2013 01:02, geoff wrote:
In message m,
"dennis@home" writes
On 10/05/2013 02:35, Clive George wrote:
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
Of course, you can't see them getting you
on your side, because they are rear facing.

Is that actually true? Wouldn't it show in mirrors?


It depends on whether they want you to see them.

Safety cameras are big yellow things you can see a mile away.
Police speed cameras are tiny things they can hide in things like
traffic lights if they want to.

Dense - I think you're the only one who doesn't know the cameras we are
talking about

You can't hide speed cameras in traffic lights, for them to be
enforceable, there has to be a grid of markers on the road

Only GATSOs need a grid marked on the road, although Truvelo have three
white lines. Others need no road markings at all.

Colin Bignell

On 11/05/2013 08:28, dennis@home wrote:
....
Tell that the the 250+ people that got done in Brum a few months ago.
The police used cameras hidden in traffic lights.
You may even have noticed the extra "sensors" appearing on top of some
lights if you weren't so thick.

Are you sure you are not getting confused with the fact that many red
light cameras also now measure speed? They are often described as
traffic light speed cameras, but they are a separate box, not hidden in
the traffic lights.

The detectors you see on the lights themselves are most probably traffic
detectors for the lights themselves. They have several advantages over
inductive loops buried in the road.

Colin Bignell

Steve Firth wrote:
geoff wrote:
[snip]

I think you'll find the cameras only operate when the variable speed
limit is in operation, since that's their declared purpose

I know that you will find that your statement is incorrect. The
cameras also function when VSL is not in operation. Finding out what
limit the cameras are set for is difficult, but I have seen cameras
flashing drivers exceeding 100mph in areas where VSL gantries exist
but were not in operation.

You have mentioned that before. That why I slow down to a 95mph when passing
them.

--
Adam

John Williamson wrote:
ARW wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

I don't know about the Luton stretch, but in the Nottingham
stretch about 1 gantry in 3 has cameras on it.
Is that - "it has cameras" or "it can have cameras"? - there is a
difference
"has", the other 2/3 only have the brackets.

That's not what my speed camera detector told me. 1 in 3 CAN hold a
camera but there are far less than 1 in 3 actually holding a camera.

Do you have a detector that will pick up the ANPR ones, then? Most of
the managed motorways I drive along have those, and use them for
average speed detection.

I no longer have the detector. It certainly did pick up the active cameras
on VSL motorways and there were not that many active cameras (but that was a
couple of years ago).

--
Adam

Steve Firth wrote:
geoff wrote:
In message , Arfa Daily
writes


"ARW" wrote in message
...
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Pete
scribeth thus
Arfa Daily formulated on Thursday :
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on
the same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three
offences for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this
morning in her company car on a section of the M1 at the south
end, where the back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for
a couple of years. She reckons that she was not much over the
top - for a change - but probably enough to have tripped them.
I've not been able to find much info on multiple instances on
the same stretch. Lots of barrack room lawyers huffing and
puffing and giving opinions based on nothing, but no definitive
answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a
link to somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the
situation is ?

Arfa

I have to ask, in a light-hearted way of course, is your daughter
blonde by any chance?

To notice the first flash would make me think '****, the fekkin'
cameras are working and I've just been caught - suppose I'd
better slow down for the next camera'.

To go on and be flashed a further TWO times is just beyond belief
8-o



Well that does beg a question of where are three speed cameras on
the same stretch of motorway surely they aren't that close
together?.

Sure they were speed cams and not something else?..

Even when I had a speed camera detector I never came across 3
gantry
cameras within a couple of miles of each other. Of couse if you
can
repeat the journey in the other direction and you can remember
where you were flashed than you can actually have a look up
at the gantry to see if there is a camera on there.


-- Adam

They're pretty close together on the variable speed sections of the
M25, as I recall ... ?

SPECS cameras work in pairs on one lane IIRC - they shouldn't detect
you
if you move from one lane to another BICBW !

Your wrong on that, as were the newspapers that made the same claim.
There was a technical problem with early implementations of SPECS
that meant that a driver changing lanes at some locations (usually at
a point where coned sections diverged) would not be detected. That
was fixed a long time ago.

Was there actually a problem with the detection of speeding motorists
switching lanes but instead a loop hole in the law that said the camera had
to record you in the same lame for both "photos"?

--
Adam

ARW wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

ARW wrote:

Is that - "it has cameras" or "it can have cameras"? - there is a
difference

"has", the other 2/3 only have the brackets.

That's not what my speed camera detector told me. 1 in 3 CAN hold a camera
but there are far less than 1 in 3 actually holding a camera.

Ah well, to clarify ... all the gantries have brackets, about 1/3 of the
brackets have "camera boxes" and external flashes, how many of the boxes
contain cameras I don't know, may they have some decoys?

geoff wrote:
[snip]

I would say I have significantly more recent experience of the M25 north
and west of london and the lower end of the M1 than you

See above, you really don't.

Use them both on a daily basis do you ragazzo ?

On a weekly basis, and err you're missing the fact that I designed the
bloody things.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

"ARW" wrote:
Steve Firth wrote:
geoff wrote:
In message , Arfa Daily
writes


"ARW" wrote in message
...
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Pete
scribeth thus
Arfa Daily formulated on Thursday :
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on
the same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three
offences for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this
morning in her company car on a section of the M1 at the south
end, where the back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for
a couple of years. She reckons that she was not much over the
top - for a change - but probably enough to have tripped them.
I've not been able to find much info on multiple instances on
the same stretch. Lots of barrack room lawyers huffing and
puffing and giving opinions based on nothing, but no definitive
answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a
link to somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the
situation is ?

Arfa

I have to ask, in a light-hearted way of course, is your daughter
blonde by any chance?

To notice the first flash would make me think '****, the fekkin'
cameras are working and I've just been caught - suppose I'd
better slow down for the next camera'.

To go on and be flashed a further TWO times is just beyond belief
8-o



Well that does beg a question of where are three speed cameras on
the same stretch of motorway surely they aren't that close
together?.

Sure they were speed cams and not something else?..

Even when I had a speed camera detector I never came across 3
gantry
cameras within a couple of miles of each other. Of couse if you
can
repeat the journey in the other direction and you can remember
where you were flashed than you can actually have a look up
at the gantry to see if there is a camera on there.


-- Adam

They're pretty close together on the variable speed sections of the
M25, as I recall ... ?

SPECS cameras work in pairs on one lane IIRC - they shouldn't detect
you
if you move from one lane to another BICBW !

Your wrong on that, as were the newspapers that made the same claim.
There was a technical problem with early implementations of SPECS
that meant that a driver changing lanes at some locations (usually at
a point where coned sections diverged) would not be detected. That
was fixed a long time ago.

Was there actually a problem with the detection of speeding motorists
switching lanes but instead a loop hole in the law that said the camera had
to record you in the same lame for both "photos"?

It was a problem with buffering the images that meant that only three
cameras could be used at each site. Where there was a diverge you got 2+2
cameras and that meant a lane change would mean that the speed couldn't be
measured. As I say, fixed long ago - about the time the Mail published
their article.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

In message , geoff
writes

I presume you're talking about the dunstable - Luton (junc 11-9) area

Correct ...


I've never seen a flash from those gantry cameras... until today
when I was going past in a northerly direction. LOTS of vehicles got
flashed in the southerly direction.

That was what she found. She said that she could not recall them being
on in the last couple of years. She has been travelling that section
regularly for the last 9 years as she was at university in Kingston,
and back and forth all the time, before then living down there, then
coming back up here, and starting the job that takes her back most
days. Still, she was southbound at the time, and if you saw a lot of
southers getting flashed, that doesn't bode well for her

It certainly made me check my speed on the return journey

I saw flashes from three gantries

It seems to me that you might just as well stay behind Dennis or me:-)

--
Tim Lamb

That was what she found. She said that she could not recall them being on in
the last couple of years. She has been travelling that section regularly for
the last 9 years as she was at university in Kingston, and back and forth
all the time, before then living down there, then coming back up here, and
starting the job that takes her back most days. Still, she was southbound at
the time, and if you saw a lot of southers getting flashed, that doesn't
bode well for her ...


Perhaps..

She just might re-think her workday. Is it really worth it risking not
only losing her licence but risking a pile up pushing the legal limits?.

Surely she'd face either the sack or disciplinary action if she did
loose the licence?.

What policy does the company she works for have on that if indeed they
do have any do you know?.

--
Tony Sayer

In message

g, Steve Firth writes
geoff wrote:
[snip]

I would say I have significantly more recent experience of the M25 north
and west of london and the lower end of the M1 than you

See above, you really don't.

Use them both on a daily basis do you ragazzo ?

On a weekly basis, and err you're missing the fact that I designed the
bloody things.

So why is what you posted so far from reality then ?

--
geoff

On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:

Based on the fact that the ones on the other side of the road now seemed
to be working, she reasoned that the ones her side now probably were as
well. She knew that she had been going over the limit - although she
says not by a lot, and just running with other drivers - and she
realised that she must have been through at least three of them before
seeing the flashes from the ones across the road, so although she didn't
actually *know* that she had been flashed at all, she reasoned that if
she had, it may have happened three times ...

So, that's the full story :-)

Its worth keeping in mind that they are not usually set to trigger any
lower than at the ACPO guideline speed (10% + 2mph), so 77mph on a
motorway, and vehicle speedos are not permitted to under read - hence
most err on the side of caution. Hence a speedo indicated 70 mph may
often mean an actual speed somewhat less than that.

Combine those two, and in many vehicles you would need to be doing an
indicated 85+ to have a problem.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sat, 11 May 2013 01:34:11 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:




I rather doubt she spends 6-8 hours doing 80mph on the motorway though. In
fact, if she frequently spends that long actually in the car, she can't be
doing much else for her employer.

Obviously, she does not spend that amount of time doing that speed, as that
would be impossible. She does, however, do some very long days. Often, the
purpose of one of her visits is to fire someone or conduct a disciplinary,

Probably of some poor sap who hasn't reached some artificial target
set by her and others of her ilk who isn't prepared or able to belt
around routinely above the limit while tired because of working a very
long day driving something slower than a Mercedes like a Transit,
often doing a job where they have to do real work or get their hands
dirty fixing or delivering things in unrealistic times set by whizz
kids with degrees in business studies who couldn't actually do the
business end of work they expect others to do, but depending on their
efforts to earn their bonuses for them.
Fitting tachos and applying some driving/working hours rules on any
vehicle used in connection with business would do a lot to stop such
nonsense .

G.Harman

On 10/05/2013 01:50, Arfa Daily wrote:


"dennis@home" wrote in message
b.com...
On 09/05/2013 12:04, Arfa Daily wrote:
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the
same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for
180 quid fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this morning
in her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end, where the
back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple of years. She
reckons that she was not much over the top - for a change - but probably
enough to have tripped them. I've not been able to find much info on
multiple instances on the same stretch. Lots of barrack room lawyers
huffing and puffing and giving opinions based on nothing, but no
definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link to
somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation is ?

Arfa


Well given that she was stupid enough to continue to speed through
another two cameras after noticing the first one she should get done
three times.


Well, Dennis, as you might imagine, no one -least of all her - is quite
as stupid as that. It wasn't quite as simple as I painted it, which was
to keep the original post short. See elsewhere in the thread where I
have now told the whole story ...

Keep in mind that in internet discussions, everyone is a far better than
average driver, and dennis is better than all of them, added together ;-))


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 11/05/2013 17:43, Nightjar wrote:
On 11/05/2013 08:28, dennis@home wrote:
...
Tell that the the 250+ people that got done in Brum a few months ago.
The police used cameras hidden in traffic lights.
You may even have noticed the extra "sensors" appearing on top of some
lights if you weren't so thick.

Are you sure you are not getting confused with the fact that many red
light cameras also now measure speed? They are often described as
traffic light speed cameras, but they are a separate box, not hidden in
the traffic lights.

The detectors you see on the lights themselves are most probably traffic
detectors for the lights themselves. They have several advantages over
inductive loops buried in the road.

Colin Bignell

They are cameras, the normal traffic sensors are also present.

The police have covert cameras as well, they are hard to spot.

On 11/05/2013 22:48, John Rumm wrote:

Keep in mind that in internet discussions, everyone is a far better than
average driver, and dennis is better than all of them, added together ;-))



nonsense.. everyone is a crap driver.

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 11/05/2013 01:34, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 10/05/2013 16:05, Arfa Daily wrote:
...
Although she
covers the whole of the south west region, many of the branches that
she
is responsible for are right down on the South coast, which is a lot
further away than say Kingston or Reading ...

Not from me.

Well, with all due respect, that is totally irrelevant, as it is for
her, otherwise, I wouldn't have said it ...

Not really. My point being that the amount of travelling you have to do to
cover an area has a lot to do with where you live in relation to it.

Colin Bignell


Yessss ... and she lives twice as far from the south coast as she does from
the northern loop of the M25, which I thought was probably pretty clear from
the fact that she has to pass through the Luton stretch of the M1,
southbound, most every day ...

Arfa

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 May 2013 01:34:11 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:




I rather doubt she spends 6-8 hours doing 80mph on the motorway though.
In
fact, if she frequently spends that long actually in the car, she can't
be
doing much else for her employer.

Obviously, she does not spend that amount of time doing that speed, as
that
would be impossible. She does, however, do some very long days. Often, the
purpose of one of her visits is to fire someone or conduct a disciplinary,

Probably of some poor sap who hasn't reached some artificial target
set by her and others of her ilk who isn't prepared or able to belt
around routinely above the limit while tired because of working a very
long day driving something slower than a Mercedes like a Transit,
often doing a job where they have to do real work or get their hands
dirty fixing or delivering things in unrealistic times set by whizz
kids with degrees in business studies who couldn't actually do the
business end of work they expect others to do, but depending on their
efforts to earn their bonuses for them.

What an angry person you are ...

Actually, it's usually to fire some arrogant little **** who has either had
his / her hand in the till, or is pilfering stock. Or to sort out some
skiving little bugger who is always late, or still ****ed from the night
before, or not bothering to turn in at all. Or to sort out managers that are
allowing shoddy food handling practices to happen in their stores. And
sometimes it's to praise managers or staff for going that extra mile for the
company, or to promote someone, or to do training, or just to see if there
is anything she or the company can do to help the store run better. She has
actually done just about every job that there is at the 'sharp end' of the
company, from being a shop floor erk to a store manager, so she is perfectly
qualified to cover any job. It was this ability that led to her being
appointed an area manager in the first place.


Fitting tachos and applying some driving/working hours rules on any
vehicle used in connection with business would do a lot to stop such
nonsense .

And also to increase the prices of goods. What a shame that we don't all
live in your ideal world.

Arfa

G.Harman

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:

Based on the fact that the ones on the other side of the road now seemed
to be working, she reasoned that the ones her side now probably were as
well. She knew that she had been going over the limit - although she
says not by a lot, and just running with other drivers - and she
realised that she must have been through at least three of them before
seeing the flashes from the ones across the road, so although she didn't
actually *know* that she had been flashed at all, she reasoned that if
she had, it may have happened three times ...

So, that's the full story :-)

Its worth keeping in mind that they are not usually set to trigger any
lower than at the ACPO guideline speed (10% + 2mph), so 77mph on a
motorway, and vehicle speedos are not permitted to under read - hence most
err on the side of caution. Hence a speedo indicated 70 mph may often mean
an actual speed somewhat less than that.

Combine those two, and in many vehicles you would need to be doing an
indicated 85+ to have a problem.

--
Cheers,

John.


Every couple of weeks, we get a 'suitcase' speed measuring and displaying
gizmo bolted onto a lamp post coming into our village. As that is reading 30
mph, the speedo in my Focus is indicating 34 mph

Arfa

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 11/05/2013 22:48, John Rumm wrote:

Keep in mind that in internet discussions, everyone is a far better than
average driver, and dennis is better than all of them, added together
;-))



nonsense.. everyone is a crap driver.


So I assume that includes your good self ? In which case, you are not
qualified to stand in judgement over my daughter, and call her stupid ... ?
:-)

Arfa

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...

That was what she found. She said that she could not recall them being on
in
the last couple of years. She has been travelling that section regularly
for
the last 9 years as she was at university in Kingston, and back and forth
all the time, before then living down there, then coming back up here, and
starting the job that takes her back most days. Still, she was southbound
at
the time, and if you saw a lot of southers getting flashed, that doesn't
bode well for her ...


Perhaps..

She just might re-think her workday. Is it really worth it risking not
only losing her licence but risking a pile up pushing the legal limits?.

Surely she'd face either the sack or disciplinary action if she did
loose the licence?.

What policy does the company she works for have on that if indeed they
do have any do you know?.

--
Tony Sayer


I don't know if they have any 'official' policy on it. They are actually
quite a good company to work for. She knows the MD and his sidekick well,
and I am sure that they would not actually want her breaking the law on
their behalf - at least in theory. However, as we all know, the 'real' world
never works quite like the theoretical one, and all sorts of factors can
operate to encourage you to speed when you spend a lot of time out on the
road. I suppose that some of those factors are real, and some imagined.

As I said before, she's not a 'mad' driver. Certainly not one of the 100 mph
merchants. The vast majority of 'pro' drivers that you encounter on clear
sections of motorway, seem to be doing an (indicated) 80 to 85 mph, and she
will be out there with them. It's probably time that motorway speed limits
were looked at. It has been at 70 mph since the days of Moggy Minors and
Vauxhall Vivas. The technology in all areas - tyres, braking, engines,
steering, traction control, ABS etc - has advanced massively since those
days, and a modern car doing 80 mph, is probably safer than they were at 50
mph. I seem to remember that this government were going to look at the limit
with a view to raising it, but that seems to be just another promise that
they have reneged on. And they wonder why the likes of UKIP are doing so
well ...

Arfa

On 12/05/2013 02:27, Arfa Daily wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:

Based on the fact that the ones on the other side of the road now seemed
to be working, she reasoned that the ones her side now probably were as
well. She knew that she had been going over the limit - although she
says not by a lot, and just running with other drivers - and she
realised that she must have been through at least three of them before
seeing the flashes from the ones across the road, so although she didn't
actually *know* that she had been flashed at all, she reasoned that if
she had, it may have happened three times ...

So, that's the full story :-)

Its worth keeping in mind that they are not usually set to trigger any
lower than at the ACPO guideline speed (10% + 2mph), so 77mph on a
motorway, and vehicle speedos are not permitted to under read - hence
most err on the side of caution. Hence a speedo indicated 70 mph may
often mean an actual speed somewhat less than that.

Combine those two, and in many vehicles you would need to be doing an
indicated 85+ to have a problem.

--
Cheers,

John.


Every couple of weeks, we get a 'suitcase' speed measuring and
displaying gizmo bolted onto a lamp post coming into our village. As
that is reading 30 mph, the speedo in my Focus is indicating 34 mph

The ones that pee me off flash up 30 when you drive toward them at a GPS
indicated 26 or 27... you can tell that someone has "calibrated" it to
trigger on a speedo "30"


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 12/05/2013 00:03, dennis@home wrote:


The police have covert cameras as well, they are hard to spot.

Care to explain how you could have covert cameras that are easy to spot?

--
Rod

On 12/05/2013 08:28, polygonum wrote:
On 12/05/2013 00:03, dennis@home wrote:


The police have covert cameras as well, they are hard to spot.

Care to explain how you could have covert cameras that are easy to spot?


I wonder what it's like in Dennisworld?

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 12/05/13 03:50, John Rumm wrote:
On 12/05/2013 02:27, Arfa Daily wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:

Based on the fact that the ones on the other side of the road now
seemed
to be working, she reasoned that the ones her side now probably
were as
well. She knew that she had been going over the limit - although she
says not by a lot, and just running with other drivers - and she
realised that she must have been through at least three of them before
seeing the flashes from the ones across the road, so although she
didn't
actually *know* that she had been flashed at all, she reasoned that if
she had, it may have happened three times ...

So, that's the full story :-)

Its worth keeping in mind that they are not usually set to trigger any
lower than at the ACPO guideline speed (10% + 2mph), so 77mph on a
motorway, and vehicle speedos are not permitted to under read - hence
most err on the side of caution. Hence a speedo indicated 70 mph may
often mean an actual speed somewhat less than that.

Combine those two, and in many vehicles you would need to be doing an
indicated 85+ to have a problem.

--
Cheers,

John.


Every couple of weeks, we get a 'suitcase' speed measuring and
displaying gizmo bolted onto a lamp post coming into our village. As
that is reading 30 mph, the speedo in my Focus is indicating 34 mph

The ones that pee me off flash up 30 when you drive toward them at a
GPS indicated 26 or 27... you can tell that someone has "calibrated"
it to trigger on a speedo "30"


the irritating one here locally is the one that flashes '40' at you but
is set to '30' and the one that is set to detect if you are speeding OUT
of the village as well as IN..

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

On 12/05/2013 00:03, dennis@home wrote:
On 11/05/2013 17:43, Nightjar wrote:
On 11/05/2013 08:28, dennis@home wrote:
...
Tell that the the 250+ people that got done in Brum a few months ago.
The police used cameras hidden in traffic lights.
You may even have noticed the extra "sensors" appearing on top of some
lights if you weren't so thick.

Are you sure you are not getting confused with the fact that many red
light cameras also now measure speed? They are often described as
traffic light speed cameras, but they are a separate box, not hidden in
the traffic lights.

The detectors you see on the lights themselves are most probably traffic
detectors for the lights themselves. They have several advantages over
inductive loops buried in the road.

Colin Bignell

They are cameras, the normal traffic sensors are also present.

How about posting a picture, so we know what to look for? You might send
a copy to these people as well, as there is nothing like that on their
web site:

http://www.speedcamerasuk.com/

The police have covert cameras as well, they are hard to spot.

Around here, they put them in a large van with a big camera logo on it
and still get lots of customers.

Colin Bignell

On 12/05/2013 02:47, Arfa Daily wrote:

... It's probably time that
motorway speed limits were looked at. It has been at 70 mph since the
days of Moggy Minors and Vauxhall Vivas. The technology in all areas -
tyres, braking, engines, steering, traction control, ABS etc - has
advanced massively since those days, and a modern car doing 80 mph, is
probably safer than they were at 50 mph....

Except that the national speed limit never had anything to do with the
capability of the vehicles. It was based upon a RRL report published in
1962*, and the justification was a number of accidents that had been
caused by the inability of many drivers to cope with widely differing
traffic speeds. The point was not to get vehicles to travel at 70mph on
motorways, but to get them to travel at more or less the same speeds.

* Two years before the high speed car testing on the M1 that popular
myth has as the reason for the NSL.

Colin Bignell

On 12/05/2013 03:50, John Rumm wrote:
....
The ones that pee me off flash up 30 when you drive toward them at a GPS
indicated 26 or 27... you can tell that someone has "calibrated" it to
trigger on a speedo "30"

I know a couple that come up even when the indicated speed is less than
the limit speed. One of them, for a 50mph limit, came up when my speedo
showed 46.

Colin Bignell

Perhaps..

She just might re-think her workday. Is it really worth it risking not
only losing her licence but risking a pile up pushing the legal limits?.

Surely she'd face either the sack or disciplinary action if she did
loose the licence?.

What policy does the company she works for have on that if indeed they
do have any do you know?.

--
Tony Sayer


I don't know if they have any 'official' policy on it.

Heres one that looks well "management"

http://www.traffictechnologytoday.co...p?NewsID=48820

They are actually
quite a good company to work for. She knows the MD and his sidekick well,
and I am sure that they would not actually want her breaking the law on
their behalf - at least in theory. However, as we all know, the 'real' world
never works quite like the theoretical one, and all sorts of factors can
operate to encourage you to speed when you spend a lot of time out on the
road. I suppose that some of those factors are real, and some imagined.

Indeed..


As I said before, she's not a 'mad' driver. Certainly not one of the 100 mph
merchants. The vast majority of 'pro' drivers that you encounter on clear
sections of motorway, seem to be doing an (indicated) 80 to 85 mph, and she
will be out there with them. It's probably time that motorway speed limits
were looked at. It has been at 70 mph since the days of Moggy Minors and
Vauxhall Vivas. The technology in all areas - tyres, braking, engines,
steering, traction control, ABS etc - has advanced massively since those
days, and a modern car doing 80 mph, is probably safer than they were at 50
mph.


What about the drivers "embedded firmware" that been upgraded in recent
times;-?..

I seem to remember that this government were going to look at the limit
with a view to raising it, but that seems to be just another promise that
they have reneged on. And they wonder why the likes of UKIP are doing so
well ...

Arfa


I suppose there'd be votes in that. I'd hope that they'd also introduce
compulsorily checks as drivers age, and a "staged" driving test for young
drivers...



--
Tony Sayer

On Fri, 10 May 2013 19:53:49 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

I don't know where all these speeders are, whenever I drive on the M6 at
70 mph very few overtake.

That's because you're hogging the outer lane, in your bubble of
self-superiority and holier-than-thou smug cloud.

On Sun, 12 May 2013 10:38:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

The ones that pee me off flash up 30 when you drive toward them at a
GPS indicated 26 or 27... you can tell that someone has "calibrated"
it to trigger on a speedo "30"


the irritating one here locally is the one that flashes '40' at you but
is set to '30' and the one that is set to detect if you are speeding OUT
of the village as well as IN..

I tend to treat those things as indicators of performance.

Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:

On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:

Based on the fact that the ones on the other side of the road now
seemed
to be working, she reasoned that the ones her side now probably were as
well. She knew that she had been going over the limit - although she
says not by a lot, and just running with other drivers - and she
realised that she must have been through at least three of them before
seeing the flashes from the ones across the road, so although she
didn't
actually *know* that she had been flashed at all, she reasoned that if
she had, it may have happened three times ...

So, that's the full story :-)

Its worth keeping in mind that they are not usually set to trigger any
lower than at the ACPO guideline speed (10% + 2mph), ...

Wossit got to do with ACPO? That's a trade union, isn't it?

Association Of Chief Police Officers. They set guidelines for such
things, and the current one for speeding prosecution is (Speed limit +
10% + 2mph). This may be ignored at the prosecuting officer's
discretion, and you can, technically, be prosecuted for speeding at
30.1mph in a 30 limit. It's also been said by many motorway police
people that they normally don't bother prosecuting at below 80 mph, but
don't count on it.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
John Williamson wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:

Based on the fact that the ones on the other side of the road now
seemed
to be working, she reasoned that the ones her side now probably
were as
well. She knew that she had been going over the limit - although she
says not by a lot, and just running with other drivers - and she
realised that she must have been through at least three of them
before
seeing the flashes from the ones across the road, so although she
didn't
actually *know* that she had been flashed at all, she reasoned
that if
she had, it may have happened three times ...

So, that's the full story :-)

Its worth keeping in mind that they are not usually set to trigger
any lower than at the ACPO guideline speed (10% + 2mph), ...
Wossit got to do with ACPO? That's a trade union, isn't it?
Association Of Chief Police Officers. They set guidelines for such
things, and the current one for speeding prosecution is (Speed limit +
10% + 2mph).

I know what it stands for. The question is, what *is* it?

What it says. An association containing chief police officers, which
issues statements and guidelines on their behalf. Sort of a public
relations thing crossed with a trade union, combined with a special
Freemasons' lodge, as far as I can tell.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 12/05/2013 11:06, Nightjar wrote:

How about posting a picture, so we know what to look for? You might send
a copy to these people as well, as there is nothing like that on their
web site:

http://www.speedcamerasuk.com/

I wouldn't want to give them a picture.
I think we need more hidden cameras to get rid of the poor drivers.


The police have covert cameras as well, they are hard to spot.

Around here, they put them in a large van with a big camera logo on it
and still get lots of customers.


Well they need to be got rid of first.
They obviously are either rich or can't see.
They are the ones that claim the cameras are revenue makers and don't
consider that they are the ones driving too fast to even spot a van with
a camera logo on it.

On 12/05/2013 08:28, polygonum wrote:
On 12/05/2013 00:03, dennis@home wrote:


The police have covert cameras as well, they are hard to spot.

Care to explain how you could have covert cameras that are easy to spot?


You could claim Gatsos are covert as only some of the boxes actually
have cameras in them.

Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
John Williamson wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
John Williamson wrote:
Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:

Based on the fact that the ones on the other side of the road
now seemed
to be working, she reasoned that the ones her side now
probably were as
well. She knew that she had been going over the limit -
although she
says not by a lot, and just running with other drivers - and she
realised that she must have been through at least three of
them before
seeing the flashes from the ones across the road, so although
she didn't
actually *know* that she had been flashed at all, she reasoned
that if
she had, it may have happened three times ...

So, that's the full story :-)

Its worth keeping in mind that they are not usually set to
trigger any lower than at the ACPO guideline speed (10% + 2mph),
...
Wossit got to do with ACPO? That's a trade union, isn't it?
Association Of Chief Police Officers. They set guidelines for
such things, and the current one for speeding prosecution is (Speed
limit + 10% + 2mph).
I know what it stands for. The question is, what *is* it?
What it says. An association containing chief police officers, which
issues statements and guidelines on their behalf. Sort of a public
relations thing crossed with a trade union, combined with a special
Freemasons' lodge, as far as I can tell.

So no official standing whatever, then, these guidelines.

That's what a guideline usually has, yes. The only enforcement of them
is "trial by press". One CPO is on record as having told his traffic
police to strictly enforce *all* speed limits.

The reason for this instruction? Allegedly, it's because his son was
killed by a speeding motorist.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.