Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the same
stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for 180 quid
fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this morning in
her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end, where the
back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple of years. She
reckons that she was not much over the top - for a change - but probably
enough to have tripped them. I've not been able to find much info on
multiple instances on the same stretch. Lots of barrack room lawyers huffing
and puffing and giving opinions based on nothing, but no definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link to
somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation is ?

Arfa

On Thu, 9 May 2013 12:04:52 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the same
stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for 180 quid
fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this morning in
her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end, where the
back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple of years. She
reckons that she was not much over the top - for a change - but probably
enough to have tripped them. I've not been able to find much info on
multiple instances on the same stretch. Lots of barrack room lawyers huffing
and puffing and giving opinions based on nothing, but no definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link to
somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation is ?

Arfa

Just a thought, if they were measuring average speed, two cameras
would be required, but it wouldn't be two offenses.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

"Graham." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 May 2013 12:04:52 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the same
stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for 180
quid
fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this morning
in
her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end, where the
back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple of years. She
reckons that she was not much over the top - for a change - but probably
enough to have tripped them. I've not been able to find much info on
multiple instances on the same stretch. Lots of barrack room lawyers
huffing
and puffing and giving opinions based on nothing, but no definitive
answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link to
somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation is ?

Arfa

Just a thought, if they were measuring average speed, two cameras
would be required, but it wouldn't be two offenses.

Average speed cameras don't flash.

Tim

"Tim+" wrote in message
...

"Graham." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 May 2013 12:04:52 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the same
stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for 180
quid
fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this morning
in
her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end, where the
back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple of years. She
reckons that she was not much over the top - for a change - but probably
enough to have tripped them. I've not been able to find much info on
multiple instances on the same stretch. Lots of barrack room lawyers
huffing
and puffing and giving opinions based on nothing, but no definitive
answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link to
somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation is ?

Arfa

Just a thought, if they were measuring average speed, two cameras
would be required, but it wouldn't be two offenses.

Average speed cameras don't flash.

Tim



Yes, correct. She was talking spot ones

Arfa

Graham. wrote:

"Arfa Daily" wrote:

Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the same
stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for 180 quid
fine and 9 points ?

No, I don't know for sure, but I think they *are* separate offences!

Just a thought, if they were measuring average speed, two cameras
would be required, but it wouldn't be two offenses.

If they're gantry ones, they're not average speed, instant with two
flashes and a 'ruler' on the carriageway.

In message , Graham.
writes
On Thu, 9 May 2013 12:04:52 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the same
stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for 180 quid
fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this morning in
her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end, where the
back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple of years. She
reckons that she was not much over the top - for a change - but probably
enough to have tripped them. I've not been able to find much info on
multiple instances on the same stretch. Lots of barrack room lawyers huffing
and puffing and giving opinions based on nothing, but no definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link to
somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation is ?

Arfa

Just a thought, if they were measuring average speed, two cameras
would be required, but it wouldn't be two offenses.


He's not talking about SPECS, that stretch now has variable speed
controls on it

--
geoff

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
news
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the same
stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for 180
quid fine and 9 points ?

If the cameras were a significant distance apart I would think it would have
to count as three offences but I believe that the courts do have some
discretion. Your daughter would almost certainly have to go to court to
stand a chance of getting a reduced penalty.

You may find more info here.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/28

Tim

On 09/05/2013 12:27, Tim+ wrote:

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
news
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the
same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences
for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

If the cameras were a significant distance apart I would think it would
have to count as three offences but I believe that the courts do have
some discretion. Your daughter would almost certainly have to go to
court to stand a chance of getting a reduced penalty.

You may find more info here.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/28

Paragraph 4 would appear to apply here, in which case, unless the Court
decides to exercise its power to ignore that, no more than three penalty
points should be applied.

Colin Bignell

On 09/05/2013 13:00, Nightjar wrote:
On 09/05/2013 12:27, Tim+ wrote:

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
news
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the
same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences
for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

It could certainly pick up a fine for each transgression.

If the cameras were a significant distance apart I would think it would
have to count as three offences but I believe that the courts do have
some discretion. Your daughter would almost certainly have to go to
court to stand a chance of getting a reduced penalty.

You may find more info here.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/28

Paragraph 4 would appear to apply here, in which case, unless the Court
decides to exercise its power to ignore that, no more than three penalty
points should be applied.

Colin Bignell

However, Paragraph 5 appears to say that the court can ignore Paragraph
4 if it feels like it or the wind is blowing in the right direction.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 09/05/2013 13:16, Martin Brown wrote:
On 09/05/2013 13:00, Nightjar wrote:
On 09/05/2013 12:27, Tim+ wrote:

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
news Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the
same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences
for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

It could certainly pick up a fine for each transgression.

If the cameras were a significant distance apart I would think it would
have to count as three offences but I believe that the courts do have
some discretion. Your daughter would almost certainly have to go to
court to stand a chance of getting a reduced penalty.

You may find more info here.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/28

Paragraph 4 would appear to apply here, in which case, unless the Court
decides to exercise its power to ignore that, no more than three penalty
points should be applied.

Colin Bignell

However, Paragraph 5 appears to say that the court can ignore Paragraph
4 if it feels like it or the wind is blowing in the right direction.


Under Paragraph 6, any such decision must be justified in open court,
which would leave it open to later challenge if it did not fall within
the sentencing guidelines.

For a Magistrate's Court, the guidelines for exceeding a 70mph limit are
70-90mph 3 points, plus a Band A fine. 91-100mph 4-6 points OR 7-28
days' disqualification and, in either case, a Band B fine. 101-110mph
7-56 days' disqualification OR 6 points and, in either case, a Band B
fine. Pleading guilty may get a reduction in sentence. Other factors,
such as bad weather or heavy traffic may result in a higher sentence.

Band A fines are 25%-75% of relevant weekly income, which is based upon
a declaration by the offender, with a minimum RWI of £100. Band B fines
are 75%-125% of RWI.

Colin Bignell

In article ,
Nightjar writes:
On 09/05/2013 12:27, Tim+ wrote:

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
news
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the
same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences
for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

If the cameras were a significant distance apart I would think it would
have to count as three offences but I believe that the courts do have
some discretion. Your daughter would almost certainly have to go to
court to stand a chance of getting a reduced penalty.

You may find more info here.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/28

Paragraph 4 would appear to apply here, in which case, unless the Court
decides to exercise its power to ignore that, no more than three penalty
points should be applied.

I suspect "same occasion" would mean something like going through
a red light whilst speeding. I really doubt it would mean tripping
3 different speed cameras in the same day, which might well be
prosecuted separately by different police authorities anyway.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 09/05/2013 21:31, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Nightjar writes:
On 09/05/2013 12:27, Tim+ wrote:

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
news Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the
same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences
for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

If the cameras were a significant distance apart I would think it would
have to count as three offences but I believe that the courts do have
some discretion. Your daughter would almost certainly have to go to
court to stand a chance of getting a reduced penalty.

You may find more info here.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/28

Paragraph 4 would appear to apply here, in which case, unless the Court
decides to exercise its power to ignore that, no more than three penalty
points should be applied.

I suspect "same occasion" would mean something like going through
a red light whilst speeding. I really doubt it would mean tripping
3 different speed cameras in the same day, which might well be
prosecuted separately by different police authorities anyway.


I think it would depend upon how the Court interprets the phrase, given
AIUI, that it was three consecutive cameras on the same stretch of road.

Colin Bignell

Nightjar :
On 09/05/2013 21:31, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Nightjar writes:
On 09/05/2013 12:27, Tim+ wrote:

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
news Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the
same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences
for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

If the cameras were a significant distance apart I would think it would
have to count as three offences but I believe that the courts do have
some discretion. Your daughter would almost certainly have to go to
court to stand a chance of getting a reduced penalty.

You may find more info here.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/28

Paragraph 4 would appear to apply here, in which case, unless the Court
decides to exercise its power to ignore that, no more than three penalty
points should be applied.

I suspect "same occasion" would mean something like going through
a red light whilst speeding. I really doubt it would mean tripping
3 different speed cameras in the same day, which might well be
prosecuted separately by different police authorities anyway.


I think it would depend upon how the Court interprets the phrase, given
AIUI, that it was three consecutive cameras on the same stretch of
road.

If the defendant could plausibly claim that she didn't slow down to
below the limit between detections, it seems to me to be one offence,
regardless of the paragraph in question, and regardless of how far apart
those detections were.

Unless the offence is bounded by travelling below the limit before and
after, it would be possible to charge anyone with a very large number of
offences based on one detection and the incontrovertible *deduction* of
speeding for (say) every one of the next million microseconds.

--
Mike Barnes

In article , Andrew Gabriel
wrote:
In article , Nightjar
writes:
On 09/05/2013 12:27, Tim+ wrote:

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
news Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the
same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences
for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

If the cameras were a significant distance apart I would think it
would have to count as three offences but I believe that the courts do
have some discretion. Your daughter would almost certainly have to go
to court to stand a chance of getting a reduced penalty.

You may find more info here.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/28

Paragraph 4 would appear to apply here, in which case, unless the Court
decides to exercise its power to ignore that, no more than three
penalty points should be applied.

I suspect "same occasion" would mean something like going through a red
light whilst speeding. I really doubt it would mean tripping 3 different
speed cameras in the same day, which might well be prosecuted separately
by different police authorities anyway.

some years ago, our local paper reported a court case where someone was
charged with 3 separate motoring offences which resulted in his
disqualification: 1. Not showing obligatory red rear lights; 2. not showing
obligatory white front light 3. not illuminating the rear number plate.
The idiot had a single blown fuse and managed to upset the traffic patrol.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

Arfa Daily formulated on Thursday :
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the same
stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for 180 quid
fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this morning in
her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end, where the
back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple of years. She
reckons that she was not much over the top - for a change - but probably
enough to have tripped them. I've not been able to find much info on multiple
instances on the same stretch. Lots of barrack room lawyers huffing and
puffing and giving opinions based on nothing, but no definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link to
somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation is ?

Arfa

I have to ask, in a light-hearted way of course, is your daughter
blonde by any chance?

To notice the first flash would make me think '****, the fekkin'
cameras are working and I've just been caught - suppose I'd better slow
down for the next camera'.

To go on and be flashed a further TWO times is just beyond belief 8-o

On Thu, 09 May 2013 12:38:35 +0100, Pete wrote:

To notice the first flash would make me think '****, the fekkin'
cameras are working and I've just been caught - suppose I'd better slow
down for the next camera'.

To go on and be flashed a further TWO times is just beyond belief 8-o

+1

In my book it would be three separate offences each carrying the default
fine and points. If the points total ends up meaning a ban well that's
just tough...

That's my book though, the one the magistrates appear to use seems a bit
lenient IMHO. Still she will have to take it to court to get the
magistrates opinion, who may well decide to follow my book. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article , Pete
scribeth thus
Arfa Daily formulated on Thursday :
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the same
stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for 180 quid
fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this morning in
her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end, where the
back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple of years. She
reckons that she was not much over the top - for a change - but probably
enough to have tripped them. I've not been able to find much info on multiple
instances on the same stretch. Lots of barrack room lawyers huffing and
puffing and giving opinions based on nothing, but no definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link to
somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation is ?

Arfa

I have to ask, in a light-hearted way of course, is your daughter
blonde by any chance?

To notice the first flash would make me think '****, the fekkin'
cameras are working and I've just been caught - suppose I'd better slow
down for the next camera'.

To go on and be flashed a further TWO times is just beyond belief 8-o



Well that does beg a question of where are three speed cameras on the
same stretch of motorway surely they aren't that close together?.

Sure they were speed cams and not something else?..

--
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Pete
scribeth thus
Arfa Daily formulated on Thursday :
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on
the same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three
offences for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this
morning in her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end,
where the back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple
of years. She reckons that she was not much over the top - for a
change - but probably enough to have tripped them. I've not been
able to find much info on multiple instances on the same stretch.
Lots of barrack room lawyers huffing and puffing and giving
opinions based on nothing, but no definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link
to somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation
is ?

Arfa

I have to ask, in a light-hearted way of course, is your daughter
blonde by any chance?

To notice the first flash would make me think '****, the fekkin'
cameras are working and I've just been caught - suppose I'd better
slow down for the next camera'.

To go on and be flashed a further TWO times is just beyond belief
8-o



Well that does beg a question of where are three speed cameras on the
same stretch of motorway surely they aren't that close together?.

Sure they were speed cams and not something else?..

Even when I had a speed camera detector I never came across 3 gantry cameras
within a couple of miles of each other. Of couse if you can repeat the
journey in the other direction and you can remember where you were flashed
than you can actually have a look up at the gantry to see if there is a
camera on there.


--
Adam

On 09/05/2013 19:17, ARW wrote:


Even when I had a speed camera detector I never came across 3 gantry cameras
within a couple of miles of each other. Of couse if you can repeat the
journey in the other direction and you can remember where you were flashed
than you can actually have a look up at the gantry to see if there is a
camera on there.


Never sure whether all gantries on the M25 have cameras? If so, I am
sure there are some places where three are within a couple of miles.

--
Rod

On 09/05/2013 19:48, polygonum wrote:
On 09/05/2013 19:17, ARW wrote:


Even when I had a speed camera detector I never came across 3 gantry
cameras
within a couple of miles of each other. Of couse if you can repeat the
journey in the other direction and you can remember where you were
flashed
than you can actually have a look up at the gantry to see if there is a
camera on there.


Never sure whether all gantries on the M25 have cameras? If so, I am
sure there are some places where three are within a couple of miles.


There are lots of cameras on managed motorways, probably on every gantry
where the speed can change.

On Thursday 09 May 2013 19:17 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y:

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Pete
scribeth thus
Arfa Daily formulated on Thursday :
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on
the same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three
offences for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this
morning in her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end,
where the back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple
of years. She reckons that she was not much over the top - for a
change - but probably enough to have tripped them. I've not been
able to find much info on multiple instances on the same stretch.
Lots of barrack room lawyers huffing and puffing and giving
opinions based on nothing, but no definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link
to somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation
is ?

Arfa

I have to ask, in a light-hearted way of course, is your daughter
blonde by any chance?

To notice the first flash would make me think '****, the fekkin'
cameras are working and I've just been caught - suppose I'd better
slow down for the next camera'.

To go on and be flashed a further TWO times is just beyond belief
8-o



Well that does beg a question of where are three speed cameras on the
same stretch of motorway surely they aren't that close together?.

Sure they were speed cams and not something else?..

Even when I had a speed camera detector I never came across 3 gantry
cameras within a couple of miles of each other. Of couse if you can repeat
the journey in the other direction and you can remember where you were
flashed than you can actually have a look up at the gantry to see if there
is a camera on there.



I've had a good look in my mirrors on the bit of the M25 that's variable -
seem to recall the cameras are only on every 2nd or 3rd gantry typically -
certainly not on every one.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

ARW wrote:

Even when I had a speed camera detector I never came across 3 gantry cameras
within a couple of miles of each other.

I don't know about the Luton stretch, but in the Nottingham stretch
about 1 gantry in 3 has cameras on it.

Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

Even when I had a speed camera detector I never came across 3 gantry
cameras within a couple of miles of each other.

I don't know about the Luton stretch, but in the Nottingham stretch
about 1 gantry in 3 has cameras on it.

Is that - "it has cameras" or "it can have cameras"? - there is a difference

--
Adam

"ARW" wrote in message
...
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Pete
scribeth thus
Arfa Daily formulated on Thursday :
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on
the same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three
offences for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this
morning in her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end,
where the back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple
of years. She reckons that she was not much over the top - for a
change - but probably enough to have tripped them. I've not been
able to find much info on multiple instances on the same stretch.
Lots of barrack room lawyers huffing and puffing and giving
opinions based on nothing, but no definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link
to somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation
is ?

Arfa

I have to ask, in a light-hearted way of course, is your daughter
blonde by any chance?

To notice the first flash would make me think '****, the fekkin'
cameras are working and I've just been caught - suppose I'd better
slow down for the next camera'.

To go on and be flashed a further TWO times is just beyond belief
8-o



Well that does beg a question of where are three speed cameras on the
same stretch of motorway surely they aren't that close together?.

Sure they were speed cams and not something else?..

Even when I had a speed camera detector I never came across 3 gantry
cameras within a couple of miles of each other. Of couse if you can repeat
the journey in the other direction and you can remember where you were
flashed than you can actually have a look up at the gantry to see if there
is a camera on there.


--
Adam

They're pretty close together on the variable speed sections of the M25, as
I recall ... ?

Arfa

In message , Arfa Daily
writes


"ARW" wrote in message
...
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Pete
scribeth thus
Arfa Daily formulated on Thursday :
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on
the same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three
offences for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this
morning in her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end,
where the back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple
of years. She reckons that she was not much over the top - for a
change - but probably enough to have tripped them. I've not been
able to find much info on multiple instances on the same stretch.
Lots of barrack room lawyers huffing and puffing and giving
opinions based on nothing, but no definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link
to somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation
is ?

Arfa

I have to ask, in a light-hearted way of course, is your daughter
blonde by any chance?

To notice the first flash would make me think '****, the fekkin'
cameras are working and I've just been caught - suppose I'd better
slow down for the next camera'.

To go on and be flashed a further TWO times is just beyond belief
8-o



Well that does beg a question of where are three speed cameras on the
same stretch of motorway surely they aren't that close together?.

Sure they were speed cams and not something else?..

Even when I had a speed camera detector I never came across 3 gantry
cameras within a couple of miles of each other. Of couse if you can
repeat the journey in the other direction and you can remember where
you were flashed than you can actually have a look up at the gantry
to see if there is a camera on there.


-- Adam

They're pretty close together on the variable speed sections of the
M25, as I recall ... ?

SPECS cameras work in pairs on one lane IIRC - they shouldn't detect you
if you move from one lane to another BICBW !

Of course, that doesn't mean to say that they don't interleave pairs of
cameras

Those on the northern section of the M25 ATM seem to be pretty tolerant


--
geoff

On Thu, 9 May 2013 19:00:44 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Well that does beg a question of where are three speed cameras on the
same stretch of motorway surely they aren't that close together?.

I thought in the variable speed limit sections every gantry with the
signs on had speed cameras on as well. If daughter is dozey enough to
trigger three cameras she's likely to be dozey enough not to notice the
variable speed limit in force...

--
Cheers
Dave.

In message , tony sayer
writes
In article , Pete
scribeth thus
Arfa Daily formulated on Thursday :
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the same
stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for 180 quid
fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this morning in
her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end, where the
back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple of years. She
reckons that she was not much over the top - for a change - but probably
enough to have tripped them. I've not been able to find much info on
multiple
instances on the same stretch. Lots of barrack room lawyers huffing and
puffing and giving opinions based on nothing, but no definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link to
somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation is ?

Arfa

I have to ask, in a light-hearted way of course, is your daughter
blonde by any chance?

To notice the first flash would make me think '****, the fekkin'
cameras are working and I've just been caught - suppose I'd better slow
down for the next camera'.

To go on and be flashed a further TWO times is just beyond belief 8-o



Well that does beg a question of where are three speed cameras on the
same stretch of motorway surely they aren't that close together?.


Every third gantry in places

Sure they were speed cams and not something else?..


Hydroponic growing lamps perhaps, yes, that's it


--
geoff

"Pete" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily formulated on Thursday :
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the same
stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for 180
quid fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this morning
in her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end, where the
back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple of years. She
reckons that she was not much over the top - for a change - but probably
enough to have tripped them. I've not been able to find much info on
multiple instances on the same stretch. Lots of barrack room lawyers
huffing and puffing and giving opinions based on nothing, but no
definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link to
somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation is ?

Arfa

I have to ask, in a light-hearted way of course, is your daughter blonde
by any chance?

Only occasionally when her hairdresser mate gives her a power cut and
bleaches it white. Rather suits her, actually. :-)



To notice the first flash would make me think '****, the fekkin' cameras
are working and I've just been caught - suppose I'd better slow down for
the next camera'.

To go on and be flashed a further TWO times is just beyond belief 8-o



Well, I did precis the story a little. Bit of background. She's 26 and
actually very intelligent (and no, I'm not just saying that ...) She's an
area manager
for a national company, and covers the whole of the south of England. She is
going to branches, hiring, firing, troubleshooting, pretty much every day,
so I guess that you could say that she is a 'professional' driver. He
company car is a nice little Merc A Class, and is just built for this sort
of work. I would say overall that she is a very safe driver - at least she
has never worried me at all when I've been out with her. She is not a 'mad'
or stupid driver, and is very much aware of what's around her, and how road
conditions and weather should influence her driving. That said, she is
quick, and will be up there in the outside lane with the best of them, when
conditions permit. She covers a lot of miles, and having spent a couple of
years myself driving all over the country virtually every day a few years
back, I know where she is coming from. Doing 80 MPH and 'risking it' is par
for the course if you want to ever get the day done with.

So, today, she was on a southbound section of the M1 down Luton way. It's a
section that she travels most every day, and she says that the spot cameras
have not been on for a couple of years. However, today, some distance into
the area where they are, she noticed a couple flash on the other side of the
road. Of course, you can't see them getting you on your side, because they
are rear facing.

Based on the fact that the ones on the other side of the road now seemed to
be working, she reasoned that the ones her side now probably were as well.
She knew that she had been going over the limit - although she says not by a
lot, and just running with other drivers - and she realised that she must
have been through at least three of them before seeing the flashes from the
ones across the road, so although she didn't actually *know* that she had
been flashed at all, she reasoned that if she had, it may have happened
three times ...

So, that's the full story :-)

Arfa

On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
Of course, you can't see them getting you
on your side, because they are rear facing.

Is that actually true? Wouldn't it show in mirrors?

Clive George :
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
Of course, you can't see them getting you
on your side, because they are rear facing.

Is that actually true? Wouldn't it show in mirrors?

I've noticed flashes in my mirrors on two occasions over the years, both
(I'm happy to say) caused by vehicles overtaking me. Both in daylight.

--
Mike Barnes

On 10/05/2013 07:44, Mike Barnes wrote:
I've noticed flashes in my mirrors on two occasions over the years, both
(I'm happy to say) caused by vehicles overtaking me. Both in daylight.

I was once driving through an urban section of a dual carriageway. We'd
left a roundabout, and I was travelling ... close to the speed limit
shall we say ... but not fast enough for the guy behind, who was 3ft
behind my bumper. As soon as I'd passed the traffic in the left lane I
went left. The guy behind me put his foot down, and shot past me.

I've never been so happy to see a camera flash. Good word, schadenfreude!

Andy

On 10/05/2013 02:35, Clive George wrote:
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
Of course, you can't see them getting you
on your side, because they are rear facing.

Is that actually true? Wouldn't it show in mirrors?


It depends on whether they want you to see them.

Safety cameras are big yellow things you can see a mile away.
Police speed cameras are tiny things they can hide in things like
traffic lights if they want to.

In message m,
"dennis@home" writes
On 10/05/2013 02:35, Clive George wrote:
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
Of course, you can't see them getting you
on your side, because they are rear facing.

Is that actually true? Wouldn't it show in mirrors?


It depends on whether they want you to see them.

Safety cameras are big yellow things you can see a mile away.
Police speed cameras are tiny things they can hide in things like
traffic lights if they want to.

Dense - I think you're the only one who doesn't know the cameras we are
talking about

You can't hide speed cameras in traffic lights, for them to be
enforceable, there has to be a grid of markers on the road


--
geoff

On Fri, 10 May 2013 01:40:57 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

Of course, you can't see them getting you on your side, because they
are rear facing.

If only car manufacturers thought to fit nice shiny things to each door.
They might help a driver see what's behind them.

that the ones on the other side of the road now seemed to
be working, she reasoned that the ones her side now probably were as well.
She knew that she had been going over the limit - although she says not by a
lot, and just running with other drivers - and she realised that she must
have been through at least three of them before seeing the flashes from the
ones across the road, so although she didn't actually *know* that she had
been flashed at all, she reasoned that if she had, it may have happened
three times ...

So, that's the full story :-)

Arfa


I wonder how the magistrates will "see" that;!?...

Yes we've all perhaps been there and dun that pushed the 70 to 80 but I
somehow think that lady was going a tad more. Most all speedo's under
read by 5 % or thereabouts*. I had a precision GPS timing unit in my car
a while ago and on a long straight unhindered stretch found that when
the speed was indicating 70 it was in fact doing just 64.5.

So by this thinking then if it were indicating 75 then I would be at and
actual 70 so allowing a margin for error I could get away with an
indicated 82 much more than that then I bet the cameras would have taken
a dim view of the rear of her car;!..

(* course that will depend to an amount on the tyre wear state)..

I suggest seeing that shes very dependant on her car to speak to a
decent solicitor if she is charged with the offence.

At best a fine of a few hundred will give her a slap on the wrist but I
bet a ban will see her seriously sodded up with the job. I once had my
licence suspended for medical reasons for six months and it was a real
PITA getting around and that was very local, it was just as well SWMBO
had a variable hours part time job..

Yes I do take on board that sometimes there aren't enough hours in the
day but these days is it really worth it pushing it to the limit?.
Seeing the standard of driving there are a LOT of people who should not
be there like a Doddery old Wally straddling Two lanes of the M11 last
week at all of 40 MPH. No amount of headlight flashing would change his
mind to either speed up or pull over.

Don't get me started on the standard of lorry driving on the A14
either!..

OK there are some good drivers but with them are a lot of Baaad ones
and the law has to apply across the board and that I reckon is the way
the bench will see that.

If she were my girl I think a fatherly lecture would be in order after
all one other contributor to this ng has a daughter who is an ambulance
paramedic and another is a traffic policeman and she'll tell you just
how they Lurve NOT that job of telling the nearest and dearest that
their lives are about to altered for good......


--
Tony Sayer

On Fri, 10 May 2013 09:32:17 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

At best a fine of a few hundred will give her a slap on the wrist but I
bet a ban will see her seriously sodded up with the job.

Tough ****. Trying to get a ban waived "because of their job" is no
excuse, should have thought of the consequences of speeding ... If
getting from A to B is required you can hire driver.

Indeed for those in "high power" jobs surely a company supplied driver
would be better for the company. Able to work while traveling, no stress
from the driving, arrive fresher etc.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Fri, 10 May 2013 09:32:17 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

At best a fine of a few hundred will give her a slap on the wrist but I
bet a ban will see her seriously sodded up with the job.

Tough ****. Trying to get a ban waived "because of their job" is no
excuse, should have thought of the consequences of speeding ... If
getting from A to B is required you can hire driver.

Indeed for those in "high power" jobs surely a company supplied driver
would be better for the company. Able to work while traveling, no stress
from the driving, arrive fresher etc.

--
Cheers
Dave.


Yes, a luvverly thought, but how many companies would actually be able to
afford that ? And it's all very well saying "tough ****" about losing a job.
Have you ever worked in a tough competitive job where you are having to
weigh up the (fairly) small chance of getting nicked against not getting the
job done and incurring the bad feeling of your boss ? I would guess not,
otherwise you wouldn't be saying that. Yes, in a perfect world, she
shouldn't speed, nor should she have to, but unfortunately, the world that
we live in is not the black and white one that you would desire, and
sometimes, you just gotta do what you just gotta do, and possibly suffer the
consequences ...

Arfa

In article , Huge
scribeth thus
On 2013-05-10, tony sayer wrote:

Most all speedo's under
read

Err, no. They *over read*, as you yourself then state;

Indeed posting a bit early today;!....



I had a precision GPS timing unit in my car
a while ago and on a long straight unhindered stretch found that when
the speed was indicating 70 it was in fact doing just 64.5.

And it is legally required that they do not under read.

Yes, imagine the claims!..
--
Tony Sayer

On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
....
Well, I did precis the story a little. Bit of background. She's 26 and
actually very intelligent (and no, I'm not just saying that ...) She's
an area manager
for a national company, and covers the whole of the south of England.
She is going to branches, hiring, firing, troubleshooting, pretty much
every day, so I guess that you could say that she is a 'professional'
driver. He company car is a nice little Merc A Class, and is just built
for this sort of work. I would say overall that she is a very safe
driver - at least she has never worried me at all when I've been out
with her. She is not a 'mad' or stupid driver, and is very much aware of
what's around her, and how road conditions and weather should influence
her driving. That said, she is quick, and will be up there in the
outside lane with the best of them, when conditions permit. She covers a
lot of miles, and having spent a couple of years myself driving all over
the country virtually every day a few years back, I know where she is
coming from. Doing 80 MPH and 'risking it' is par for the course if you
want to ever get the day done with....

Even if she spent 8 hours driving on motorways at 75mph instead of
80mph, it would only add 32 minutes to her day. As she probably isn't
doing anything like that much motorway driving, in practice, driving at
a speed that will attract points, as compared to one that probably
won't, is only likely to add 10-15 minutes to her day.

Colin Bignell

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
...
Well, I did precis the story a little. Bit of background. She's 26 and
actually very intelligent (and no, I'm not just saying that ...) She's
an area manager
for a national company, and covers the whole of the south of England.
She is going to branches, hiring, firing, troubleshooting, pretty much
every day, so I guess that you could say that she is a 'professional'
driver. He company car is a nice little Merc A Class, and is just built
for this sort of work. I would say overall that she is a very safe
driver - at least she has never worried me at all when I've been out
with her. She is not a 'mad' or stupid driver, and is very much aware of
what's around her, and how road conditions and weather should influence
her driving. That said, she is quick, and will be up there in the
outside lane with the best of them, when conditions permit. She covers a
lot of miles, and having spent a couple of years myself driving all over
the country virtually every day a few years back, I know where she is
coming from. Doing 80 MPH and 'risking it' is par for the course if you
want to ever get the day done with....

Even if she spent 8 hours driving on motorways at 75mph instead of 80mph,
it would only add 32 minutes to her day. As she probably isn't doing
anything like that much motorway driving, in practice, driving at a speed
that will attract points, as compared to one that probably won't, is only
likely to add 10-15 minutes to her day.

Colin Bignell


That's true, Colin. But as I'm sure you must know from your own experience,
it sure doesn't feel that way when you've been stuck in traffic for the last
half hour, and all you want to do is 'catch up' the lost time. On a road the
size of a motorway - particularly where they've opened it up to four lanes -
70 MPH feels mighty slow in a modern car ... And yes, she often does spend
6 to 8 hours driving. Although she covers the whole of the south west
region, many of the branches that she is responsible for are right down on
the South coast, which is a lot further away than say Kingston or Reading
....

Arfa