"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Frank Erskine
scribeth thus
On Thu, 9 May 2013 12:04:52 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the same
stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for 180
quid
fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this morning
in
her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end, where the
back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple of years. She
reckons that she was not much over the top - for a change - but probably
enough to have tripped them. I've not been able to find much info on
multiple instances on the same stretch. Lots of barrack room lawyers
huffing
and puffing and giving opinions based on nothing, but no definitive
answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link to
somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation is ?

An elderly woman around here was "done" three times on the same day
with the same camera!


Course if it came to it she could go on a "speed awareness" course one
of my relatives did that, reduced the fine and points IIRC but shes
rather sanctimonious now on the subject;!...
--
Tony Sayer



Apparently, you don't have any right to take a speed awareness course
instead. The offer is at the discretion of the local force involved

Arfa

"Peter Crosland" wrote in message
...
On 09/05/2013 12:04, Arfa Daily wrote:
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the
same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for
180 quid fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this morning
in her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end, where the
back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple of years. She
reckons that she was not much over the top - for a change - but probably
enough to have tripped them. I've not been able to find much info on
multiple instances on the same stretch. Lots of barrack room lawyers
huffing and puffing and giving opinions based on nothing, but no
definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link to
somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation is ?

The cameras are usually, but not always, set to trigger at the limit plus
10% plus a couple of miles per hour. Assuming this is the case then she
must have been doing 80mph or more. Perhaps careless driving would be a
more appropriate charge.


--
Peter Crosland


Aha. A G6 ! That's going back a bit. Are you still active ? Actually, she
doesn't know for sure that she has been flashed. She is basing it on seeing
a couple of flashes on the other side of the road on a section where the
cameras have not been active for a couple of years. She reasoned that if
they were working now across the road, they may well be her side as well,
but you can't see them on your own side, as they are rear facing.

Arfa

On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
Of course, you can't see them getting you
on your side, because they are rear facing.

Is that actually true? Wouldn't it show in mirrors?

Nightjar :
On 09/05/2013 21:31, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Nightjar writes:
On 09/05/2013 12:27, Tim+ wrote:

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
news Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the
same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences
for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

If the cameras were a significant distance apart I would think it would
have to count as three offences but I believe that the courts do have
some discretion. Your daughter would almost certainly have to go to
court to stand a chance of getting a reduced penalty.

You may find more info here.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/28

Paragraph 4 would appear to apply here, in which case, unless the Court
decides to exercise its power to ignore that, no more than three penalty
points should be applied.

I suspect "same occasion" would mean something like going through
a red light whilst speeding. I really doubt it would mean tripping
3 different speed cameras in the same day, which might well be
prosecuted separately by different police authorities anyway.


I think it would depend upon how the Court interprets the phrase, given
AIUI, that it was three consecutive cameras on the same stretch of
road.

If the defendant could plausibly claim that she didn't slow down to
below the limit between detections, it seems to me to be one offence,
regardless of the paragraph in question, and regardless of how far apart
those detections were.

Unless the offence is bounded by travelling below the limit before and
after, it would be possible to charge anyone with a very large number of
offences based on one detection and the incontrovertible *deduction* of
speeding for (say) every one of the next million microseconds.

--
Mike Barnes

Clive George :
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
Of course, you can't see them getting you
on your side, because they are rear facing.

Is that actually true? Wouldn't it show in mirrors?

I've noticed flashes in my mirrors on two occasions over the years, both
(I'm happy to say) caused by vehicles overtaking me. Both in daylight.

--
Mike Barnes

On 10/05/2013 07:44, Mike Barnes wrote:
I've noticed flashes in my mirrors on two occasions over the years, both
(I'm happy to say) caused by vehicles overtaking me. Both in daylight.

I was once driving through an urban section of a dual carriageway. We'd
left a roundabout, and I was travelling ... close to the speed limit
shall we say ... but not fast enough for the guy behind, who was 3ft
behind my bumper. As soon as I'd passed the traffic in the left lane I
went left. The guy behind me put his foot down, and shot past me.

I've never been so happy to see a camera flash. Good word, schadenfreude!

Andy

On Fri, 10 May 2013 01:40:57 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

Of course, you can't see them getting you on your side, because they
are rear facing.

If only car manufacturers thought to fit nice shiny things to each door.
They might help a driver see what's behind them.

that the ones on the other side of the road now seemed to
be working, she reasoned that the ones her side now probably were as well.
She knew that she had been going over the limit - although she says not by a
lot, and just running with other drivers - and she realised that she must
have been through at least three of them before seeing the flashes from the
ones across the road, so although she didn't actually *know* that she had
been flashed at all, she reasoned that if she had, it may have happened
three times ...

So, that's the full story :-)

Arfa


I wonder how the magistrates will "see" that;!?...

Yes we've all perhaps been there and dun that pushed the 70 to 80 but I
somehow think that lady was going a tad more. Most all speedo's under
read by 5 % or thereabouts*. I had a precision GPS timing unit in my car
a while ago and on a long straight unhindered stretch found that when
the speed was indicating 70 it was in fact doing just 64.5.

So by this thinking then if it were indicating 75 then I would be at and
actual 70 so allowing a margin for error I could get away with an
indicated 82 much more than that then I bet the cameras would have taken
a dim view of the rear of her car;!..

(* course that will depend to an amount on the tyre wear state)..

I suggest seeing that shes very dependant on her car to speak to a
decent solicitor if she is charged with the offence.

At best a fine of a few hundred will give her a slap on the wrist but I
bet a ban will see her seriously sodded up with the job. I once had my
licence suspended for medical reasons for six months and it was a real
PITA getting around and that was very local, it was just as well SWMBO
had a variable hours part time job..

Yes I do take on board that sometimes there aren't enough hours in the
day but these days is it really worth it pushing it to the limit?.
Seeing the standard of driving there are a LOT of people who should not
be there like a Doddery old Wally straddling Two lanes of the M11 last
week at all of 40 MPH. No amount of headlight flashing would change his
mind to either speed up or pull over.

Don't get me started on the standard of lorry driving on the A14
either!..

OK there are some good drivers but with them are a lot of Baaad ones
and the law has to apply across the board and that I reckon is the way
the bench will see that.

If she were my girl I think a fatherly lecture would be in order after
all one other contributor to this ng has a daughter who is an ambulance
paramedic and another is a traffic policeman and she'll tell you just
how they Lurve NOT that job of telling the nearest and dearest that
their lives are about to altered for good......


--
Tony Sayer

Course if it came to it she could go on a "speed awareness" course one
of my relatives did that, reduced the fine and points IIRC but shes
rather sanctimonious now on the subject;!...
--
Tony Sayer



Apparently, you don't have any right to take a speed awareness course
instead. The offer is at the discretion of the local force involved

OK, but ISTR that this only applies in these parts to a first offence
its I suppose deemed that if you've had the one then you should know
better;!...

Arfa


--
Tony Sayer

On Fri, 10 May 2013 09:32:17 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

At best a fine of a few hundred will give her a slap on the wrist but I
bet a ban will see her seriously sodded up with the job.

Tough ****. Trying to get a ban waived "because of their job" is no
excuse, should have thought of the consequences of speeding ... If
getting from A to B is required you can hire driver.

Indeed for those in "high power" jobs surely a company supplied driver
would be better for the company. Able to work while traveling, no stress
from the driving, arrive fresher etc.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
....
Well, I did precis the story a little. Bit of background. She's 26 and
actually very intelligent (and no, I'm not just saying that ...) She's
an area manager
for a national company, and covers the whole of the south of England.
She is going to branches, hiring, firing, troubleshooting, pretty much
every day, so I guess that you could say that she is a 'professional'
driver. He company car is a nice little Merc A Class, and is just built
for this sort of work. I would say overall that she is a very safe
driver - at least she has never worried me at all when I've been out
with her. She is not a 'mad' or stupid driver, and is very much aware of
what's around her, and how road conditions and weather should influence
her driving. That said, she is quick, and will be up there in the
outside lane with the best of them, when conditions permit. She covers a
lot of miles, and having spent a couple of years myself driving all over
the country virtually every day a few years back, I know where she is
coming from. Doing 80 MPH and 'risking it' is par for the course if you
want to ever get the day done with....

Even if she spent 8 hours driving on motorways at 75mph instead of
80mph, it would only add 32 minutes to her day. As she probably isn't
doing anything like that much motorway driving, in practice, driving at
a speed that will attract points, as compared to one that probably
won't, is only likely to add 10-15 minutes to her day.

Colin Bignell

On Thursday, 9 May 2013 16:18:26 UTC+1, Peter Johnson wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2013 13:17:36 +0000 (UTC), Scion

wrote:







ISTR a few years ago, but can't find any reference to on t'Net, that

someone argued in court that his multiple speeding offences, i.e. being

caught by three consecutive cameras, were in fact one continuous offence..

He lost.



Similarly, I recall a case where someone won with a claim that if they

had known about the first instance they would have abated their speed

and that the three incidents should be treated as one.

Of course, the OP's daughter doesn't have to worry unless or until she

receives three NIPs.

In the early 90's a friend of mine told a story about travelling through London early one morning and was flashed by a static camera. A few miles later he was pulled over by a constable with a hand-held detector. He explained to the officer that he had just been flashed, so the officer declined to bother with his own paperwork. Turned out there must have been no film in the camera, as a penalty notice never came through from the fixed camera....

Matt

larkim put finger to keyboard:

On Thursday, 9 May 2013 16:18:26 UTC+1, Peter Johnson wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2013 13:17:36 +0000 (UTC), Scion

wrote:







ISTR a few years ago, but can't find any reference to on t'Net, that

someone argued in court that his multiple speeding offences, i.e.
being

caught by three consecutive cameras, were in fact one continuous
offence.

He lost.



Similarly, I recall a case where someone won with a claim that if they

had known about the first instance they would have abated their speed

and that the three incidents should be treated as one.

Of course, the OP's daughter doesn't have to worry unless or until she

receives three NIPs.

In the early 90's a friend of mine told a story about travelling through
London early one morning and was flashed by a static camera. A few
miles later he was pulled over by a constable with a hand-held detector.
He explained to the officer that he had just been flashed, so the
officer declined to bother with his own paperwork.

That should make it *less* likely for the plod to not give a ticket. After
all, the message clearly hadn't got through...

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Fri, 10 May 2013 09:32:17 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

At best a fine of a few hundred will give her a slap on the wrist but I
bet a ban will see her seriously sodded up with the job.

Tough ****. Trying to get a ban waived "because of their job" is no
excuse, should have thought of the consequences of speeding ... If
getting from A to B is required you can hire driver.

Indeed for those in "high power" jobs surely a company supplied driver
would be better for the company. Able to work while traveling, no stress
from the driving, arrive fresher etc.

--
Cheers
Dave.


Yes, a luvverly thought, but how many companies would actually be able to
afford that ? And it's all very well saying "tough ****" about losing a job.
Have you ever worked in a tough competitive job where you are having to
weigh up the (fairly) small chance of getting nicked against not getting the
job done and incurring the bad feeling of your boss ? I would guess not,
otherwise you wouldn't be saying that. Yes, in a perfect world, she
shouldn't speed, nor should she have to, but unfortunately, the world that
we live in is not the black and white one that you would desire, and
sometimes, you just gotta do what you just gotta do, and possibly suffer the
consequences ...

Arfa

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
...
Well, I did precis the story a little. Bit of background. She's 26 and
actually very intelligent (and no, I'm not just saying that ...) She's
an area manager
for a national company, and covers the whole of the south of England.
She is going to branches, hiring, firing, troubleshooting, pretty much
every day, so I guess that you could say that she is a 'professional'
driver. He company car is a nice little Merc A Class, and is just built
for this sort of work. I would say overall that she is a very safe
driver - at least she has never worried me at all when I've been out
with her. She is not a 'mad' or stupid driver, and is very much aware of
what's around her, and how road conditions and weather should influence
her driving. That said, she is quick, and will be up there in the
outside lane with the best of them, when conditions permit. She covers a
lot of miles, and having spent a couple of years myself driving all over
the country virtually every day a few years back, I know where she is
coming from. Doing 80 MPH and 'risking it' is par for the course if you
want to ever get the day done with....

Even if she spent 8 hours driving on motorways at 75mph instead of 80mph,
it would only add 32 minutes to her day. As she probably isn't doing
anything like that much motorway driving, in practice, driving at a speed
that will attract points, as compared to one that probably won't, is only
likely to add 10-15 minutes to her day.

Colin Bignell


That's true, Colin. But as I'm sure you must know from your own experience,
it sure doesn't feel that way when you've been stuck in traffic for the last
half hour, and all you want to do is 'catch up' the lost time. On a road the
size of a motorway - particularly where they've opened it up to four lanes -
70 MPH feels mighty slow in a modern car ... And yes, she often does spend
6 to 8 hours driving. Although she covers the whole of the south west
region, many of the branches that she is responsible for are right down on
the South coast, which is a lot further away than say Kingston or Reading
....

Arfa

Arfa Daily put finger to keyboard:

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
...
Well, I did precis the story a little. Bit of background. She's 26 and
actually very intelligent (and no, I'm not just saying that ...)
She's an area manager for a national company, and covers the whole of
the south of England. She is going to branches, hiring, firing,
troubleshooting, pretty much every day, so I guess that you could say
that she is a 'professional' driver. He company car is a nice little
Merc A Class, and is just built for this sort of work. I would say
overall that she is a very safe driver - at least she has never
worried me at all when I've been out with her. She is not a 'mad' or
stupid driver, and is very much aware of what's around her, and how
road conditions and weather should influence her driving. That said,
she is quick, and will be up there in the outside lane with the best
of them, when conditions permit. She covers a lot of miles, and having
spent a couple of years myself driving all over the country virtually
every day a few years back, I know where she is coming from. Doing 80
MPH and 'risking it' is par for the course if you want to ever get the
day done with....

Even if she spent 8 hours driving on motorways at 75mph instead of
80mph,
it would only add 32 minutes to her day. As she probably isn't doing
anything like that much motorway driving, in practice, driving at a
speed that will attract points, as compared to one that probably won't,
is only likely to add 10-15 minutes to her day.

Colin Bignell


That's true, Colin. But as I'm sure you must know from your own
experience, it sure doesn't feel that way when you've been stuck in
traffic for the last half hour, and all you want to do is 'catch up' the
lost time. On a road the size of a motorway - particularly where they've
opened it up to four lanes -
70 MPH feels mighty slow in a modern car ...

Doubly slow if everyone else is doing 80.

On Friday 10 May 2013 12:57 larkim wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In the early 90's a friend of mine told a story about travelling through
London early one morning and was flashed by a static camera. A few miles
later he was pulled over by a constable with a hand-held detector. He
explained to the officer that he had just been flashed, so the officer
declined to bother with his own paperwork. Turned out there must have
been no film in the camera, as a penalty notice never came through from
the fixed camera...

Matt

When I were a lad, I got a second hand Austin Maestro - the one that talked
with the digital dash.

Anyway, I assumed the dash speedo, being digital, was somehow "more
accurate" than normal.

So there I was, bombing along a wide open bit of the A25 when a copper jumps
out from behind a bush with a hairdryer.

I looked down at the dash and saw "43" on the speedo, and being a 30mph
road, thought "****".

Anyway, matey comes over and says "Sir, do you know how fast you were
going?" Before I can answer, he shows my said hairdryer: "39mph" it said.

I just managed to refrain from saying "Oh, is that all?" and put on my
contrite face instead.

He said "I'll let you off - you probably got done by the camera back there"
(a mile back).

I thanked him with the silent thought "I'm local, I know about that camera".

The only other time I have actually beeen flashed, it was on the A3 where
the camera gets filled with film each morning and is out by lunchtime...

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 10/05/2013 16:05, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
...
Well, I did precis the story a little. Bit of background. She's 26 and
actually very intelligent (and no, I'm not just saying that ...) She's
an area manager
for a national company, and covers the whole of the south of England.
She is going to branches, hiring, firing, troubleshooting, pretty much
every day, so I guess that you could say that she is a 'professional'
driver. He company car is a nice little Merc A Class, and is just built
for this sort of work. I would say overall that she is a very safe
driver - at least she has never worried me at all when I've been out
with her. She is not a 'mad' or stupid driver, and is very much aware of
what's around her, and how road conditions and weather should influence
her driving. That said, she is quick, and will be up there in the
outside lane with the best of them, when conditions permit. She covers a
lot of miles, and having spent a couple of years myself driving all over
the country virtually every day a few years back, I know where she is
coming from. Doing 80 MPH and 'risking it' is par for the course if you
want to ever get the day done with....

Even if she spent 8 hours driving on motorways at 75mph instead of
80mph, it would only add 32 minutes to her day. As she probably isn't
doing anything like that much motorway driving, in practice, driving
at a speed that will attract points, as compared to one that probably
won't, is only likely to add 10-15 minutes to her day.

Colin Bignell


That's true, Colin. But as I'm sure you must know from your own
experience, it sure doesn't feel that way when you've been stuck in
traffic for the last half hour, and all you want to do is 'catch up' the
lost time.

You won't and it is a good idea to recognise that when driving.

On a road the size of a motorway - particularly where they've
opened it up to four lanes - 70 MPH feels mighty slow in a modern car
... And yes, she often does spend 6 to 8 hours driving.

I rather doubt she spends 6-8 hours doing 80mph on the motorway though.
In fact, if she frequently spends that long actually in the car, she
can't be doing much else for her employer.

Although she
covers the whole of the south west region, many of the branches that she
is responsible for are right down on the South coast, which is a lot
further away than say Kingston or Reading ...

Not from me.

Colin Bignell

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2013 19:57:55 +0100, ARW wrote:

There are NOT lots of cameras on managed motorways. When you are
driving the other carriageway you can see the cameras.

Are there any managed motorways north of Birmingham? Can't say I've
noticed any but I do try an avoid Manchester if I can...

There will soon be the M62 as it passes Leeds. A couple of years should see
the M1 both north and south of the two junctions I use to get home also
become managed motorways

I'm more used to motorways that aren't lit at night and after about
2300 to 0500 you might have one set of tail lights in the far
distance and one set of headlights way behind you. B-)

My experience of the existing managed motorways that I have frequently
driven (M1, M42. M25) is usually early in the morning - that's why I am
doing over 90MPH.

--
Adam

Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

I don't know about the Luton stretch, but in the Nottingham stretch
about 1 gantry in 3 has cameras on it.

Is that - "it has cameras" or "it can have cameras"? - there is a
difference

"has", the other 2/3 only have the brackets.

That's not what my speed camera detector told me. 1 in 3 CAN hold a camera
but there are far less than 1 in 3 actually holding a camera.

--
Adam

In article , Huge
scribeth thus
On 2013-05-10, tony sayer wrote:

Most all speedo's under
read

Err, no. They *over read*, as you yourself then state;

Indeed posting a bit early today;!....



I had a precision GPS timing unit in my car
a while ago and on a long straight unhindered stretch found that when
the speed was indicating 70 it was in fact doing just 64.5.

And it is legally required that they do not under read.

Yes, imagine the claims!..
--
Tony Sayer

On 10/05/2013 02:35, Clive George wrote:
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
Of course, you can't see them getting you
on your side, because they are rear facing.

Is that actually true? Wouldn't it show in mirrors?


It depends on whether they want you to see them.

Safety cameras are big yellow things you can see a mile away.
Police speed cameras are tiny things they can hide in things like
traffic lights if they want to.

ARW wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

I don't know about the Luton stretch, but in the Nottingham stretch
about 1 gantry in 3 has cameras on it.
Is that - "it has cameras" or "it can have cameras"? - there is a
difference
"has", the other 2/3 only have the brackets.

That's not what my speed camera detector told me. 1 in 3 CAN hold a camera
but there are far less than 1 in 3 actually holding a camera.

Do you have a detector that will pick up the ANPR ones, then? Most of
the managed motorways I drive along have those, and use them for average
speed detection.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 10/05/2013 16:18, Scion wrote:

That's true, Colin. But as I'm sure you must know from your own
experience, it sure doesn't feel that way when you've been stuck in
traffic for the last half hour, and all you want to do is 'catch up' the
lost time. On a road the size of a motorway - particularly where they've
opened it up to four lanes -
70 MPH feels mighty slow in a modern car ...

Doubly slow if everyone else is doing 80.


I don't know where all these speeders are, whenever I drive on the M6 at
70 mph very few overtake.

In message , Arfa Daily
writes
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the
same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for
180 quid fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this
morning in her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end,
where the back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple of
years. She reckons that she was not much over the top - for a change -
but probably enough to have tripped them. I've not been able to find
much info on multiple instances on the same stretch. Lots of barrack
room lawyers huffing and puffing and giving opinions based on nothing,
but no definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link to
somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation is ?

She's going Daaaaaahn ...

I presume you're talking about the dunstable - Luton (junc 11-9) area

I've never seen a flash from those gantry cameras... until today when I
was going past in a northerly direction. LOTS of vehicles got flashed in
the southerly direction.

I think you can get multiple offences to be "taken into consideration",
but I'm not certain

--
geoff

In message , Graham.
writes
On Thu, 9 May 2013 12:04:52 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the same
stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for 180 quid
fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this morning in
her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end, where the
back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple of years. She
reckons that she was not much over the top - for a change - but probably
enough to have tripped them. I've not been able to find much info on
multiple instances on the same stretch. Lots of barrack room lawyers huffing
and puffing and giving opinions based on nothing, but no definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link to
somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation is ?

Arfa

Just a thought, if they were measuring average speed, two cameras
would be required, but it wouldn't be two offenses.


He's not talking about SPECS, that stretch now has variable speed
controls on it

--
geoff

In message , tony sayer
writes
In article , Pete
scribeth thus
Arfa Daily formulated on Thursday :
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the same
stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for 180 quid
fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this morning in
her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end, where the
back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple of years. She
reckons that she was not much over the top - for a change - but probably
enough to have tripped them. I've not been able to find much info on
multiple
instances on the same stretch. Lots of barrack room lawyers huffing and
puffing and giving opinions based on nothing, but no definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link to
somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation is ?

Arfa

I have to ask, in a light-hearted way of course, is your daughter
blonde by any chance?

To notice the first flash would make me think '****, the fekkin'
cameras are working and I've just been caught - suppose I'd better slow
down for the next camera'.

To go on and be flashed a further TWO times is just beyond belief 8-o



Well that does beg a question of where are three speed cameras on the
same stretch of motorway surely they aren't that close together?.


Every third gantry in places

Sure they were speed cams and not something else?..


Hydroponic growing lamps perhaps, yes, that's it


--
geoff

In message om,
"dennis@home" writes
On 09/05/2013 19:48, polygonum wrote:
On 09/05/2013 19:17, ARW wrote:


Even when I had a speed camera detector I never came across 3 gantry
cameras
within a couple of miles of each other. Of couse if you can repeat the
journey in the other direction and you can remember where you were
flashed
than you can actually have a look up at the gantry to see if there is a
camera on there.


Never sure whether all gantries on the M25 have cameras? If so, I am
sure there are some places where three are within a couple of miles.


There are lots of cameras on managed motorways, probably on every
gantry where the speed can change.


Pills, dense - take your pills


--
geoff

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Thu, 9 May 2013 19:57:55 +0100, ARW wrote:

There are NOT lots of cameras on managed motorways. When you are
driving the other carriageway you can see the cameras.

Are there any managed motorways north of Birmingham? Can't say I've
noticed any but I do try an avoid Manchester if I can...

I'm more used to motorways that aren't lit at night and after about 2300
to 0500 you might have one set of tail lights in the far distance and one
set of headlights way behind you. B-)



I think you'll find the cameras only operate when the variable speed
limit is in operation, since that's their declared purpose


--
geoff

In message , Arfa Daily
writes


"ARW" wrote in message
...
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Pete
scribeth thus
Arfa Daily formulated on Thursday :
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on
the same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three
offences for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this
morning in her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end,
where the back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple
of years. She reckons that she was not much over the top - for a
change - but probably enough to have tripped them. I've not been
able to find much info on multiple instances on the same stretch.
Lots of barrack room lawyers huffing and puffing and giving
opinions based on nothing, but no definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link
to somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation
is ?

Arfa

I have to ask, in a light-hearted way of course, is your daughter
blonde by any chance?

To notice the first flash would make me think '****, the fekkin'
cameras are working and I've just been caught - suppose I'd better
slow down for the next camera'.

To go on and be flashed a further TWO times is just beyond belief
8-o



Well that does beg a question of where are three speed cameras on the
same stretch of motorway surely they aren't that close together?.

Sure they were speed cams and not something else?..

Even when I had a speed camera detector I never came across 3 gantry
cameras within a couple of miles of each other. Of couse if you can
repeat the journey in the other direction and you can remember where
you were flashed than you can actually have a look up at the gantry
to see if there is a camera on there.


-- Adam

They're pretty close together on the variable speed sections of the
M25, as I recall ... ?

SPECS cameras work in pairs on one lane IIRC - they shouldn't detect you
if you move from one lane to another BICBW !

Of course, that doesn't mean to say that they don't interleave pairs of
cameras

Those on the northern section of the M25 ATM seem to be pretty tolerant


--
geoff

In message m,
"dennis@home" writes
On 10/05/2013 02:35, Clive George wrote:
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
Of course, you can't see them getting you
on your side, because they are rear facing.

Is that actually true? Wouldn't it show in mirrors?


It depends on whether they want you to see them.

Safety cameras are big yellow things you can see a mile away.
Police speed cameras are tiny things they can hide in things like
traffic lights if they want to.

Dense - I think you're the only one who doesn't know the cameras we are
talking about

You can't hide speed cameras in traffic lights, for them to be
enforceable, there has to be a grid of markers on the road


--
geoff

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 10/05/2013 16:05, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
...
Well, I did precis the story a little. Bit of background. She's 26 and
actually very intelligent (and no, I'm not just saying that ...) She's
an area manager
for a national company, and covers the whole of the south of England.
She is going to branches, hiring, firing, troubleshooting, pretty much
every day, so I guess that you could say that she is a 'professional'
driver. He company car is a nice little Merc A Class, and is just built
for this sort of work. I would say overall that she is a very safe
driver - at least she has never worried me at all when I've been out
with her. She is not a 'mad' or stupid driver, and is very much aware
of
what's around her, and how road conditions and weather should influence
her driving. That said, she is quick, and will be up there in the
outside lane with the best of them, when conditions permit. She covers
a
lot of miles, and having spent a couple of years myself driving all
over
the country virtually every day a few years back, I know where she is
coming from. Doing 80 MPH and 'risking it' is par for the course if you
want to ever get the day done with....

Even if she spent 8 hours driving on motorways at 75mph instead of
80mph, it would only add 32 minutes to her day. As she probably isn't
doing anything like that much motorway driving, in practice, driving
at a speed that will attract points, as compared to one that probably
won't, is only likely to add 10-15 minutes to her day.

Colin Bignell


That's true, Colin. But as I'm sure you must know from your own
experience, it sure doesn't feel that way when you've been stuck in
traffic for the last half hour, and all you want to do is 'catch up' the
lost time.

You won't and it is a good idea to recognise that when driving.

On a road the size of a motorway - particularly where they've
opened it up to four lanes - 70 MPH feels mighty slow in a modern car
... And yes, she often does spend 6 to 8 hours driving.

I rather doubt she spends 6-8 hours doing 80mph on the motorway though. In
fact, if she frequently spends that long actually in the car, she can't be
doing much else for her employer.

Obviously, she does not spend that amount of time doing that speed, as that
would be impossible. She does, however, do some very long days. Often, the
purpose of one of her visits is to fire someone or conduct a disciplinary,
or to address a specific problem in a branch, or sometimes to just put in an
appearance to make sure that everything is going ok, and to perhaps spot
check the till or an operating practice that's been an issue before. None of
these takes long actually on-site, so the bulk of her job *is* getting there
and back.



Although she
covers the whole of the south west region, many of the branches that she
is responsible for are right down on the South coast, which is a lot
further away than say Kingston or Reading ...

Not from me.

Well, with all due respect, that is totally irrelevant, as it is for her,
otherwise, I wouldn't have said it ...

Arfa


Colin Bignell

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message m,
"dennis@home" writes
On 10/05/2013 02:35, Clive George wrote:
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
Of course, you can't see them getting you
on your side, because they are rear facing.

Is that actually true? Wouldn't it show in mirrors?


It depends on whether they want you to see them.

Safety cameras are big yellow things you can see a mile away.
Police speed cameras are tiny things they can hide in things like traffic
lights if they want to.

Dense - I think you're the only one who doesn't know the cameras we are
talking about

You can't hide speed cameras in traffic lights, for them to be
enforceable, there has to be a grid of markers on the road

Actually, Geoff, I don't think that's true anymore. I read somewhere that
the grid is "hardwired" on the camera. No more need for white markers.
That's what I read but I dunno.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on the same
stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three offences for 180
quid fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this morning
in her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end, where the
back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple of years. She
reckons that she was not much over the top - for a change - but probably
enough to have tripped them. I've not been able to find much info on
multiple instances on the same stretch. Lots of barrack room lawyers
huffing and puffing and giving opinions based on nothing, but no
definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link to
somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation is ?

She's going Daaaaaahn ...

I presume you're talking about the dunstable - Luton (junc 11-9) area

Correct ...


I've never seen a flash from those gantry cameras... until today when I
was going past in a northerly direction. LOTS of vehicles got flashed in
the southerly direction.

That was what she found. She said that she could not recall them being on in
the last couple of years. She has been travelling that section regularly for
the last 9 years as she was at university in Kingston, and back and forth
all the time, before then living down there, then coming back up here, and
starting the job that takes her back most days. Still, she was southbound at
the time, and if you saw a lot of southers getting flashed, that doesn't
bode well for her ...

Arfa



I think you can get multiple offences to be "taken into consideration",
but I'm not certain

--
geoff

geoff wrote:
In message , Arfa Daily
writes


"ARW" wrote in message
...
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Pete
scribeth thus
Arfa Daily formulated on Thursday :
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on
the same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three
offences for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this
morning in her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end,
where the back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple
of years. She reckons that she was not much over the top - for a
change - but probably enough to have tripped them. I've not been
able to find much info on multiple instances on the same stretch.
Lots of barrack room lawyers huffing and puffing and giving
opinions based on nothing, but no definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link
to somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation
is ?

Arfa

I have to ask, in a light-hearted way of course, is your daughter
blonde by any chance?

To notice the first flash would make me think '****, the fekkin'
cameras are working and I've just been caught - suppose I'd better
slow down for the next camera'.

To go on and be flashed a further TWO times is just beyond belief
8-o



Well that does beg a question of where are three speed cameras on the
same stretch of motorway surely they aren't that close together?.

Sure they were speed cams and not something else?..

Even when I had a speed camera detector I never came across 3 gantry
cameras within a couple of miles of each other. Of couse if you can
repeat the journey in the other direction and you can remember where
you were flashed than you can actually have a look up at the gantry
to see if there is a camera on there.


-- Adam

They're pretty close together on the variable speed sections of the
M25, as I recall ... ?

SPECS cameras work in pairs on one lane IIRC - they shouldn't detect you
if you move from one lane to another BICBW !

They do now. Earlier ones weren't certified for it, but newer ones are.

The temporary ones at roadworks scan all lanes using one camera anyway.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 11/05/2013 01:02, geoff wrote:
In message m,
"dennis@home" writes
On 10/05/2013 02:35, Clive George wrote:
On 10/05/2013 01:40, Arfa Daily wrote:
Of course, you can't see them getting you
on your side, because they are rear facing.

Is that actually true? Wouldn't it show in mirrors?


It depends on whether they want you to see them.

Safety cameras are big yellow things you can see a mile away.
Police speed cameras are tiny things they can hide in things like
traffic lights if they want to.

Dense - I think you're the only one who doesn't know the cameras we are
talking about

You can't hide speed cameras in traffic lights, for them to be
enforceable, there has to be a grid of markers on the road



Tell that the the 250+ people that got done in Brum a few months ago.
The police used cameras hidden in traffic lights.
You may even have noticed the extra "sensors" appearing on top of some
lights if you weren't so thick.

geoff wrote:
In message , Arfa Daily writes


"ARW" wrote in message
...
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Pete
scribeth thus
Arfa Daily formulated on Thursday :
Does anyone know for sure whether getting flashed three times on
the same stretch of motorway within minutes, constitutes three
offences for 180 quid fine and 9 points ?

Daughter reckons that she might have got had more than once this
morning in her company car on a section of the M1 at the south end,
where the back-facing gantry cameras have not been on for a couple
of years. She reckons that she was not much over the top - for a
change - but probably enough to have tripped them. I've not been
able to find much info on multiple instances on the same stretch.
Lots of barrack room lawyers huffing and puffing and giving
opinions based on nothing, but no definitive answer.

Anyone on here suffered this and knows for sure, or who has a link
to somewhere on t' interweb that details exactly what the situation
is ?

Arfa

I have to ask, in a light-hearted way of course, is your daughter
blonde by any chance?

To notice the first flash would make me think '****, the fekkin'
cameras are working and I've just been caught - suppose I'd better
slow down for the next camera'.

To go on and be flashed a further TWO times is just beyond belief
8-o



Well that does beg a question of where are three speed cameras on the
same stretch of motorway surely they aren't that close together?.

Sure they were speed cams and not something else?..

Even when I had a speed camera detector I never came across 3 gantry
cameras within a couple of miles of each other. Of couse if you can
repeat the journey in the other direction and you can remember
where you were flashed than you can actually have a look up at
the gantry to see if there is a camera on there.


-- Adam

They're pretty close together on the variable speed sections of the
M25, as I recall ... ?

SPECS cameras work in pairs on one lane IIRC - they shouldn't detect you
if you move from one lane to another BICBW !

Your wrong on that, as were the newspapers that made the same claim. There
was a technical problem with early implementations of SPECS that meant that
a driver changing lanes at some locations (usually at a point where coned
sections diverged) would not be detected. That was fixed a long time ago.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

geoff wrote:
[snip]

I think you'll find the cameras only operate when the variable speed
limit is in operation, since that's their declared purpose

I know that you will find that your statement is incorrect. The cameras
also function when VSL is not in operation. Finding out what limit the
cameras are set for is difficult, but I have seen cameras flashing drivers
exceeding 100mph in areas where VSL gantries exist but were not in
operation. Also I used to work at the HA and was involved in planning the
first controlled motorways in England do I know that the cameras were
specced to be active 24/7.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On 11/05/2013 01:34, Arfa Daily wrote:


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 10/05/2013 16:05, Arfa Daily wrote:
....
Although she
covers the whole of the south west region, many of the branches that she
is responsible for are right down on the South coast, which is a lot
further away than say Kingston or Reading ...

Not from me.

Well, with all due respect, that is totally irrelevant, as it is for
her, otherwise, I wouldn't have said it ...

Not really. My point being that the amount of travelling you have to do
to cover an area has a lot to do with where you live in relation to it.

Colin Bignell

On 11/05/2013 00:55, geoff wrote:
....
SPECS cameras work in pairs on one lane IIRC - they shouldn't detect you
if you move from one lane to another BICBW !
....

An outdated myth. The latest average speed cameras can link up to 1,000
different cameras and work out your average speed between any of them
anywhere in the country.

Colin Bignell