I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one


--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to be
able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one


--
geoff

I dumped two last year, both from the 60s. They sell on eBay but are so
heavy that collection was the only feasible method here - so off to the tip.
Pity.

In message , Geoff Pearson
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem
to be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef,
so I'm on the lookout for one


-- geoff

I dumped two last year, both from the 60s. They sell on eBay but are
so heavy that collection was the only feasible method here - so off to
the tip. Pity.
You could've put them on your local Freegle - would have saved you the
trip to the dump.
--
Nick (=----)

"Nick" wrote in message
...
In message , Geoff Pearson
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one


-- geoff

I dumped two last year, both from the 60s. They sell on eBay but are so
heavy that collection was the only feasible method here - so off to the
tip. Pity.
You could've put them on your local Freegle - would have saved you the
trip to the dump.
--
Nick (=----)

Why did it change its name from Freecycle?

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one

Geoff,

Do a search on Fleabay for Vintage Kenwood, there are loads.

Hands are good for dough, just more tiring, but this *is* a D.I.Y.
group..... Make a paddle and use the power drill in a bucket LOL!

On 20/01/13 03:30, geoff wrote:

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one


Lots on ebay or even available new at sensible money

They outlast the people who know how to use em.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 20/01/2013 03:30, geoff wrote:

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one


Not sure what you are trying to achieve here.

For me, I did have a fling with bread-maker and it was fun and quite
nice. Very much depended on exact flour and recipe - small differences
had quite an effect - but under-kneading never seemed to be an issue.

Partner had to give up bread so have now abandoned making at all. (Not
very nice to fill house with baking bread smell when someone will be ill
if they eat it.)

But before giving up, I did re-visit what I used to do many years ago -
overnight rise in refrigerator then oven rather than bread-maker. And I
looked around the internet for ideas. Realised that long, slow rises
were being highly regarded by quite a section of the community.

The smell of bread-maker can be overwhelming. As can the in-store
bakeries in supermarkets. That all seems to come from the fast rise and
disproportionately huge amounts of yeast used.

Slow rise smells much nicer.

And, to get to the point, quite a number of slow, cool rise approaches
suggest reduced, or even no, kneading. That is where I would be - if
bread-making were continuing here.

Also works better with lower-gluten flours which can allow a greater
variety of breads to be produced.

--
Rod

On 20/01/2013 09:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/13 03:30, geoff wrote:

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one


Lots on ebay or even available new at sensible money

They outlast the people who know how to use em.


Round here 'they' are waxing lyrical about the wonders of the Kitchenaid...

A plaster paddle in a drill sounds a great idea, but how about a Cement
Mixer?

--
Adrian C

On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 09:22:56 -0000, "Geoff Pearson"
wrote:


"Nick" wrote in message
...
In message , Geoff Pearson
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one


-- geoff

I dumped two last year, both from the 60s. They sell on eBay but are so
heavy that collection was the only feasible method here - so off to the
tip. Pity.
You could've put them on your local Freegle - would have saved you the
trip to the dump.
--
Nick (=----)

Why did it change its name from Freecycle?

From being a mutual self-help organisation, founded on ideals of
diverting goods from landfill into re-use, and started by a lady in
Arizona, it became a centralised, autocratic hierarchy that attempted
to impose its will on UK volunteer staff. They essentially told
Freecycle to go forth and multiply:

http://allegoric.us/WPpQBL

On 20/01/2013 09:58, polygonum wrote:

Partner had to give up bread so have now abandoned making at all. (Not
very nice to fill house with baking bread smell when someone will be ill
if they eat it.)

If it's something like Coeliac Disease, can you make suitable bread?

In message , Geoff Pearson
writes

"Nick" wrote in message
...
In message , Geoff Pearson
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood
chef, so I'm on the lookout for one


-- geoff

I dumped two last year, both from the 60s. They sell on eBay but are
so heavy that collection was the only feasible method here - so off
to the tip. Pity.
You could've put them on your local Freegle - would have saved you
the trip to the dump.
-- Nick (=----)

Why did it change its name from Freecycle?
There was a bust-up over the attitude and behaviour of the American
'owner' of the Freecycle name. Most UK groups have joined the Freegle
group instead. The UK Freecycle groups still exist (I think) but tend to
have moderators based in the US.
--
Nick (=----)

Geoff Pearson wrote:
"Nick" wrote in message
Why did it change its name from Freecycle?

It didn't. Freegle was set up by ex-Freecycle admins who had a falling
out with Freecycle. Many, but not all, groups moved over.

http://www.ilovefreegle.org/

http://www.freecycle.org/group/UK

Mike

On 20/01/2013 09:22, Geoff Pearson wrote:

"Nick" wrote in message
to the tip. Pity.
You could've put them on your local Freegle - would have saved you the
trip to the dump.

Why did it change its name from Freecycle?

It didn't, they are different organisations. AFAIK Freegle was one of
several set up by ex-Freecycle folk after political fallings-out with
the US parent organisation.


--
David

"Geoff Pearson" wrote:
[snip]

Why did it change its name from Freecycle?

Because Freecycle had a reputation for havin aggressive local moderators
who tried hard to make disposal of items via Freecycle as difficult as
possible. They also had aggressive clients who tried to give an impression
that they were doing you a favour taking stuff off your hands while also
demanding that the stuff should be delivered to their door and be brand
new/latest spec.

Obviously changing the name fixes this.


--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On 20/01/2013 05:59, Geoff Pearson wrote:

"geoff" wrote in message
...

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef,
so I'm on the lookout for one


--
geoff

I dumped two last year, both from the 60s. They sell on eBay but are so
heavy that collection was the only feasible method here - so off to the
tip. Pity.
They get donated periodically to the Oxfam shop where I volunteer.
They never hang around for long even if in a rather battered , but
working, condition.
Are generally bomb-proof if a bit noisy.

On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 04:28:50 -0600, Mike Humphrey wrote:

Geoff Pearson wrote:
"Nick" wrote in message Why did it change its
name from Freecycle?

It didn't. Freegle was set up by ex-Freecycle admins who had a falling
out with Freecycle. Many, but not all, groups moved over.

http://www.ilovefreegle.org/

http://www.freecycle.org/group/UK

Our local groups have now become so bureaucratic, I've just about given
up.

And the offered stuff comes in big batches. I understand that moderators
have limited time, but they seem to post the 'offered' and same-item
'taken' at the same time. Doesn't seem quite right...



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 03:30:45 +0000, geoff wrote:

I'm on the lookout for one

Are you anywhere near Lymington (Hants), or Hindhead (Surrey)?
--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 10:00:39 +0000, Adrian C
wrote:

On 20/01/2013 09:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/13 03:30, geoff wrote:

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one


Lots on ebay or even available new at sensible money

They outlast the people who know how to use em.


Round here 'they' are waxing lyrical about the wonders of the Kitchenaid...

A plaster paddle in a drill sounds a great idea, but how about a Cement
Mixer?

Kitchenaid?

It's about time they sent Jamie Oliver et al to Africa.

In message , Adrian C
writes
On 20/01/2013 09:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/13 03:30, geoff wrote:

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one


Lots on ebay or even available new at sensible money

They outlast the people who know how to use em.


Round here 'they' are waxing lyrical about the wonders of the Kitchenaid...

A plaster paddle in a drill sounds a great idea, but how about a Cement
Mixer?

Won't draw the gluten properly, will it?

--
geoff

GB wrote:
On 20/01/2013 09:58, polygonum wrote:

Partner had to give up bread so have now abandoned making at all. (Not
very nice to fill house with baking bread smell when someone will be ill
if they eat it.)

If it's something like Coeliac Disease, can you make suitable bread?

It is somewhat more complicated than that - has had negative test for CD.

I have tried making some and, in my view, it is not worth it. Results not
good enough and does not get round the underlying issues.

But it is a worthwhile approach for quite a number. Thanks for suggesting.

--
rod

In message , polygonum
writes
On 20/01/2013 03:30, geoff wrote:

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one


Not sure what you are trying to achieve here.

For me, I did have a fling with bread-maker and it was fun and quite
nice. Very much depended on exact flour and recipe - small differences
had quite an effect - but under-kneading never seemed to be an issue.


I find that bread made with a bread maker always come out with a bit of
a "cakey" consistency. To make good (to my taste) you need strong whiter
flour and plenty of kneading to "draw" the strands of gluten. This gives
it a "bready" rather than "cakey" consistency

--
geoff

In message , Maurice
Batey writes
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 03:30:45 +0000, geoff wrote:

I'm on the lookout for one

Are you anywhere near Lymington (Hants), or Hindhead (Surrey)?

No, Watford

but I can use a courier

(email address is valid)

--
geoff

On 20/01/2013 10:43, Steve Firth wrote:
"Geoff Pearson" wrote:
[snip]

Why did it change its name from Freecycle?

Because Freecycle had a reputation for havin aggressive local moderators
who tried hard to make disposal of items via Freecycle as difficult as
possible. They also had aggressive clients who tried to give an impression
that they were doing you a favour taking stuff off your hands while also
demanding that the stuff should be delivered to their door and be brand
new/latest spec.

Obviously changing the name fixes this.



Paying a quid on EBay at least eliminates the obsessive scavengers

On 1/20/2013 5:00 AM, Adrian C wrote:

Round here 'they' are waxing lyrical about the wonders of the Kitchenaid...

Kenwood and KitchenAid are both very good - I have one of each - but
from the point of view of parts, service, and price, Kenwood is a better
choice for UK people, KitchenAid is better for those in the US.

polygonum wrote
geoff wrote

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to be
able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one

Not sure what you are trying to achieve here.

For me, I did have a fling with bread-maker and it was fun and quite nice.

And leaves the bought bread for dead. Its actually rather
more convenient than buying it too, even tho I have a bread
shop just around the corner in very easy walking distance.
Less work to weigh the mix, water and yeast into the bread
machine tin than to walk to the bread shop and back and
the bread is much better from the machine too.

Very much depended on exact flour and recipe - small differences had quite
an effect

I just use the mix in the very large sacks.

- but under-kneading never seemed to be an issue.

Yeah, its never been for me, or for any of those I have
got bread machines for from the garage/yard sales.

Partner had to give up bread so have now abandoned making at all. (Not
very nice to fill house with baking bread smell when someone will be ill
if they eat it.)

But before giving up, I did re-visit what I used to do many years ago -
overnight rise in refrigerator then oven rather than bread-maker. And I
looked around the internet for ideas. Realised that long, slow rises were
being highly regarded by quite a section of the community.

Cant be bothered myself, the machine is so easy.

The smell of bread-maker can be overwhelming.

Yeah, the obscenely obese fella who got me into bread machines
has been know to gorge on the whole loaf fresh out of the machine.

But he does that with cream cakes from the cake shop too.

As can the in-store bakeries in supermarkets. That all seems to come from
the fast rise and is proportionately huge amounts of yeast used.

Slow rise smells much nicer.

Cant say I have noticed that effect myself, but then the bakerys
in the supermarkets arent that overwhelming smell wise here.

And, to get to the point, quite a number of slow, cool rise approaches
suggest reduced, or even no, kneading. That is where I would be - if
bread-making were continuing here.

One of the fellas I infected with the bread machine disease
and the beer brewing disease, was into experimenting with
the detail of the bread machine programmable programs
and did get quite a bit more of what he preferred bread
wise, but he's into conventional white bread and like the
very crisp crust style that the french are into. I'm into
whole grain bread myself and have settled on a hybrid
of a couple of the best bread mixes that gives me quite
a solid loaf in the german style.

Also works better with lower-gluten flours which can allow a greater
variety of breads to be produced.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , polygonum
writes
On 20/01/2013 03:30, geoff wrote:

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one


Not sure what you are trying to achieve here.

For me, I did have a fling with bread-maker and it was fun and quite nice.
Very much depended on exact flour and recipe - small differences had quite
an effect - but under-kneading never seemed to be an issue.

I find that bread made with a bread maker always come out with a bit of a
"cakey" consistency.

Mine doesn't.

To make good (to my taste) you need strong whiter flour

I much prefer a grain bread myself.

and plenty of kneading to "draw" the strands of gluten.

The better bread machines allow you to vary
the amount of kneading you give the mix.

This gives it a "bready" rather than "cakey" consistency

Never get a cakey consistency myself.

On 20/01/2013 10:00, Adrian C wrote:
On 20/01/2013 09:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/01/13 03:30, geoff wrote:

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one


Lots on ebay or even available new at sensible money

They outlast the people who know how to use em.


Round here 'they' are waxing lyrical about the wonders of the Kitchenaid...

A plaster paddle in a drill sounds a great idea, but how about a Cement
Mixer?


They do stainless steel ones for food, I wouldn't like an orange painted
one but I suppose the old concrete would stop the paint peeling.

In article , geoff wrote:

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one

Wifey bought a K-Mix a few years ago (the trendy new Kenwood - looks
like the american kitchenaids) and when I can't be bothered doing it
by hand the bread gets done in that.

Nice overnight rise (sourdough starter) and in the oven in the
morning. Can't beat it!

Gordon

On 20/01/2013 12:58, geoff wrote:
In message , polygonum
writes
On 20/01/2013 03:30, geoff wrote:

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one


Not sure what you are trying to achieve here.

For me, I did have a fling with bread-maker and it was fun and quite
nice. Very much depended on exact flour and recipe - small differences
had quite an effect - but under-kneading never seemed to be an issue.


I find that bread made with a bread maker always come out with a bit of
a "cakey" consistency. To make good (to my taste) you need strong whiter
flour and plenty of kneading to "draw" the strands of gluten. This gives
it a "bready" rather than "cakey" consistency

I think I didn't write my response very well. Yes, indeed, bread-maker
bread certainly tends to the cakey texture. But, at its best, I find it
acceptable in terms of texture.

But the ultra-slow, cold rise can result in an excellent texture with
relatively little or no kneading. For example, this is one technique:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/dining/08mini.html

--
Rod

In message , Rod Speed
writes


"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , polygonum
writes
On 20/01/2013 03:30, geoff wrote:

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one


Not sure what you are trying to achieve here.

For me, I did have a fling with bread-maker and it was fun and quite
nice. Very much depended on exact flour and recipe - small
differences had quite an effect - but under-kneading never seemed to
be an issue.

I find that bread made with a bread maker always come out with a bit
of a "cakey" consistency.

Mine doesn't.

Oh **** - about to get into a discussion with this retarded antipodean
here ...

To make good (to my taste) you need strong whiter flour

I much prefer a grain bread myself.

I do a 50-50 mix of strong white and wholemeal normally - the strong
white gives the texture, the wholemeal makes it worth eating



--
geoff

"Rod Speed" wrote:
[snip]

Never get a cakey consistency myself.

Check inside your underpants.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 20/01/2013 12:58, geoff wrote:
In message , polygonum
writes
On 20/01/2013 03:30, geoff wrote:

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef,
so
I'm on the lookout for one


Not sure what you are trying to achieve here.

For me, I did have a fling with bread-maker and it was fun and quite
nice. Very much depended on exact flour and recipe - small differences
had quite an effect - but under-kneading never seemed to be an issue.


I find that bread made with a bread maker always come out with a bit of
a "cakey" consistency. To make good (to my taste) you need strong whiter
flour and plenty of kneading to "draw" the strands of gluten. This gives
it a "bready" rather than "cakey" consistency

I think I didn't write my response very well. Yes, indeed, bread-maker
bread certainly tends to the cakey texture.

Mine doesn't.

But, at its best, I find it acceptable in terms of texture.

Mine leaves the texture from the bread shops
and the supermarket bakerys for dead.

But the ultra-slow, cold rise can result in an excellent texture with
relatively little or no kneading. For example, this is one technique:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/dining/08mini.html

geoff wrote
Rod Speed wrote
geoff wrote
polygonum wrote
geoff wrote

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef,
so I'm on the lookout for one

Not sure what you are trying to achieve here.

For me, I did have a fling with bread-maker and it was fun and quite
nice. Very much depended on exact flour and recipe - small differences
had quite an effect - but under-kneading never seemed to be an issue.

I find that bread made with a bread maker always come out with a bit of
a "cakey" consistency.

Mine doesn't.

Oh **** - about to get into a discussion with this retarded antipodean
here ...

Wota stunning line in rational argument you have there...

To make good (to my taste) you need strong whiter flour

I much prefer a grain bread myself.

I do a 50-50 mix of strong white and wholemeal normally - the strong white
gives the texture, the wholemeal makes it worth eating

I don't see the point of the strong white. I use 100 g of Laucke's German
Grain Bread and 400g of their Multigrain and get no cakey effect at all.

100% of their German Grain Bread is too solid for
my taste and nothing even remotely like cakey.

In article , says...

In message , Maurice
Batey writes
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 03:30:45 +0000, geoff wrote:

I'm on the lookout for one

Are you anywhere near Lymington (Hants), or Hindhead (Surrey)?

No, Watford

but I can use a courier

(email address is valid)

One on ebay just sold for £20 + £16 P&P

Are you the buyer?

--
Sam

In message , Sam Plusnet
writes
In article , says...

In message , Maurice
Batey writes
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 03:30:45 +0000, geoff wrote:

I'm on the lookout for one

Are you anywhere near Lymington (Hants), or Hindhead (Surrey)?

No, Watford

but I can use a courier

(email address is valid)

One on ebay just sold for £20 + £16 P&P

Are you the buyer?

Not me, I was just putting feelers out

I've done nothing more than ask here so far


--
geoff

On Jan 20, 4:12*pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
polygonum wrote

geoff wrote
I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to be
able to
I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one
Not sure what you are trying to achieve here.
For me, I did have a fling with bread-maker and it was fun and quite nice.

And leaves the bought bread for dead.

Nope.

Its actually rather
more convenient than buying it too,
Nope.

even tho I have a bread
shop just around the corner in very easy walking distance.
Less work to weigh the mix, water and yeast into the bread
machine tin than to walk to the bread shop and back and

You need more exercise then you might find the walking easier.

the bread is much better from the machine too.

Not if you want it now.

Very much depended on exact flour and recipe - small differences had quite
an effect

I just use the mix in the very large sacks.

If you don't really care then that's probably Ok for you.

- but under-kneading never seemed to be an issue.

Yeah, its never been for me, or for any of those I have
got bread machines for from the garage/yard sales.

Partner had to give up bread so have now abandoned making at all. (Not
very nice to fill house with baking bread smell when someone will be ill
if they eat it.)
But before giving up, I did re-visit what I used to do many years ago -
overnight rise in refrigerator then oven rather than bread-maker. And I
looked around the internet for ideas. Realised that long, slow rises were
being highly regarded by quite a section of the community.

Cant be bothered myself,

Good for you.

The smell of bread-maker can be overwhelming.

Yeah, the obscenely obese fella who got me into bread machines
has been know to gorge on the whole loaf fresh out of the machine.

That's you, that is.

But he does that with cream cakes from the cake shop too.

Please stop talking about yourself.

As can the in-store bakeries in supermarkets. That all seems to come from
the fast rise and is proportionately huge amounts of yeast used.
Slow rise smells much nicer.

Cant say I have noticed that effect myself, but then the bakerys

All this fresh bread has done nothing for your brain.

On 20 Jan, 16:12, "Rod Speed" wrote:

Snip

have settled on a hybrid
of a couple of the best bread mixes that gives me quite
a solid loaf in the german style.

Too much information!

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Jan 20, 4:12 pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
polygonum wrote

geoff wrote
I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be
able to
I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef,
so
I'm on the lookout for one
Not sure what you are trying to achieve here.
For me, I did have a fling with bread-maker and it was fun and quite
nice.

And leaves the bought bread for dead.

Nope.

Its actually rather
more convenient than buying it too,
Nope.

even tho I have a bread
shop just around the corner in very easy walking distance.
Less work to weigh the mix, water and yeast into the bread
machine tin than to walk to the bread shop and back and

You need more exercise then you might find the walking easier.

As usual, you never do have a ****ing clue.

I walk for a couple of HOURS daily, ****wit.

the bread is much better from the machine too.

Not if you want it now.

Doesn't happen with the bread shop, but that's because
I want the sort of bread that he doesn't sell a lot of and
its perfectly possible to show up at the bread shop and
have the bugger say that it isnt ready yet.

MUCH easier to set an alarm in the PC that runs all the
time and have the bread ALWAYS ready to eat when
I want to eat it instead.

Very much depended on exact flour and
recipe - small differences had quite an effect

I just use the mix in the very large sacks.

If you don't really care then that's probably Ok for you.

I do really care and its much better than farting around
doing it by hand and leave the crap from the bread shop
for dead. That bread shops and supermarket bakerys need
to make for commercial reasons are nothing like what I want.

reams of your puerile **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed
where it belongs

On 20/01/2013 03:30, geoff wrote:

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one


You would need the Mixer and the Dough hook (not standard)
Kneading dough is therapeutic ... all you need is flour board and your
hands ....

In article ,
says...

On 20/01/2013 03:30, geoff wrote:

I want to properly knead dough like the new bread makers don't seem to
be able to

I found out that my brother has "inherited" my mother's kenwood chef, so
I'm on the lookout for one


You would need the Mixer and the Dough hook (not standard)
Kneading dough is therapeutic ... all you need is flour board and your
hands ....

It's also fantastic at getting your hands clean after a bit of DIY.

All that stuff around & under your fingernails - gone without a speck
left behind.

--
Sam