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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On a list of jobs today; Change print cartridge.... Empty vacuum cleaner.... -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#2
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
i don't see what's trivial about cordless doorbells for a non DIYer.
I presume that the chiming part has to be affixed to the wall and if you don't have a drill and masonry bit what do you do with it? (I'm guessing that sticking on with double sided tape or blutack isn't durable enough) tim |
#3
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
... On a list of jobs today; Change print cartridge.... Empty vacuum cleaner.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- do you need a waste license for that? |
#4
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
The Medway Handyman wrote:
On a list of jobs today; Change print cartridge.... Empty vacuum cleaner.... Working for the OH? -- Adam |
#5
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On 28/08/2012 17:41, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On a list of jobs today; Change print cartridge.... You should try talking someone through it on the phone. Colin Bignell |
#6
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
Nightjar wrote:
On 28/08/2012 17:41, The Medway Handyman wrote: On a list of jobs today; Change print cartridge.... You should try talking someone through it on the phone. Only if TMH can key in CC details. He is not a charity. -- Adam |
#7
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
tim..... wrote:
i don't see what's trivial about cordless doorbells for a non DIYer. I presume that the chiming part has to be affixed to the wall and if you don't have a drill and masonry bit what do you do with it? (I'm guessing that sticking on with double sided tape or blutack isn't durable enough) so use hot glue tim -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
#8
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 21:27:50 +0000, Huge wrote:
The boiler chappie talked me through fixing the boiler on the phone one year. You have a steam-powered phone? |
#9
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
Most of the ones I see are for the hard of hearing and the bell bit works
from batteries and is clipped to the belt. Some even vibrate. Brian -- -- From the sofa of Brian Gaff - Blind user, so no pictures please! "dennis@home" wrote in message ... "tim....." wrote in message ... i don't see what's trivial about cordless doorbells for a non DIYer. I presume that the chiming part has to be affixed to the wall and if you don't have a drill and masonry bit what do you do with it? (I'm guessing that sticking on with double sided tape or blutack isn't durable enough) You plug the "bell" into a 13A socket and stick the push on the frame. It takes longer to take it out of the box than to install. |
#11
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
My Vax seems to have designed a dust container where the easy to remove lid
as almost impossible to get back on again. Brian -- -- From the sofa of Brian Gaff - Blind user, so no pictures please! "tim....." wrote in message ... "The Medway Handyman" wrote in message ... On a list of jobs today; Change print cartridge.... Empty vacuum cleaner.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- do you need a waste license for that? |
#12
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On 28/08/2012 19:41, ARWadsworth wrote:
Nightjar wrote: On 28/08/2012 17:41, The Medway Handyman wrote: On a list of jobs today; Change print cartridge.... You should try talking someone through it on the phone. Only if TMH can key in CC details. He is not a charity. In my case it was after-sales service. I am very pleased that I no longer have to deal with members of the public as customers. Colin Bignell |
#13
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On 28/08/2012 22:27, Huge wrote:
On 2012-08-28, Nightjar wrote: On 28/08/2012 17:41, The Medway Handyman wrote: On a list of jobs today; Change print cartridge.... You should try talking someone through it on the phone. The boiler chappie talked me through fixing the boiler on the phone one year. We were snowed in and he couldn't get to us. Which shows that it is the abilities of the person needing help that is critical. Colin Bignell |
#14
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
In article , Huge wrote:
Thanks for reminding me that I've previously had to taxi a support person halfway across London to plug in a keyboard extension cable for someone. I've heard of someone flown to Singapore to look at a problem after a phone call which went roughly "You're sure it's plugged in?" "You're really sure it's plugged in?" "You're really absolutely certain it's plugged in?". Turned out it was plugged in, to a four-way extension lead which was also plugged in - to itself. |
#15
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
In message , Alan Braggins
writes In article , Huge wrote: Thanks for reminding me that I've previously had to taxi a support person halfway across London to plug in a keyboard extension cable for someone. I've heard of someone flown to Singapore to look at a problem after a phone call which went roughly "You're sure it's plugged in?" "You're really sure it's plugged in?" "You're really absolutely certain it's plugged in?". Turned out it was plugged in, to a four-way extension lead which was also plugged in - to itself. I once drove 50 miles to Wimbledon, tennis, to a TV scanner after a similar conversation. I found that the customer had added an extra 4 way multiblock to the set up, one with a switch on it. I explained to him how the switch worked and drove 50 miles back again. -- Bill |
#16
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
Bill wrote:
In message , Alan Braggins writes In article , Huge wrote: Thanks for reminding me that I've previously had to taxi a support person halfway across London to plug in a keyboard extension cable for someone. I've heard of someone flown to Singapore to look at a problem after a phone call which went roughly "You're sure it's plugged in?" "You're really sure it's plugged in?" "You're really absolutely certain it's plugged in?". Turned out it was plugged in, to a four-way extension lead which was also plugged in - to itself. I once drove 50 miles to Wimbledon, tennis, to a TV scanner after a similar conversation. I found that the customer had added an extra 4 way multiblock to the set up, one with a switch on it. I explained to him how the switch worked and drove 50 miles back again. Two of us drove 65 miles to London,, to Arthur Andersen, and a BT engineer did the same, wasted 4 hours while the customer faffed about and the BT engineer finally discovered the IDSN line that was strung up and over the door of a steel cabinet that had cut through the insulation. -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
#17
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Bill wrote: In message , Alan Braggins writes In article , Huge wrote: Thanks for reminding me that I've previously had to taxi a support person halfway across London to plug in a keyboard extension cable for someone. I've heard of someone flown to Singapore to look at a problem after a phone call which went roughly "You're sure it's plugged in?" "You're really sure it's plugged in?" "You're really absolutely certain it's plugged in?". Turned out it was plugged in, to a four-way extension lead which was also plugged in - to itself. I once drove 50 miles to Wimbledon, tennis, to a TV scanner after a similar conversation. I found that the customer had added an extra 4 way multiblock to the set up, one with a switch on it. I explained to him how the switch worked and drove 50 miles back again. Two of us drove 65 miles to London,, to Arthur Andersen, and a BT engineer did the same, wasted 4 hours while the customer faffed about and the BT engineer finally discovered the IDSN line that was strung up and over the door of a steel cabinet that had cut through the insulation. I can have my time wasted more than that. A couple of months ago I had to drop the job I was doing and I had to drive 100 miles north to swap a broken hand drier in a gents toilets (contract work and we have to turn up when required). I spoke to the manager and he showed me the faulty hand drier. I asked him why the job could not wait (ie allow someone to arrive there for 8am in the morning do the work instead of driving there in work time) as there were two hand driers and the other one still worked. He claimed it was H&S, went for a **** and then never even bothered to wash his hands or use the working hand drier. It would still have been a 200 round trip, but at least I could have done the outwards journey when there was no traffic. -- Adam |
#18
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
Owain wrote:
On Aug 29, 7:06 pm, "ARWadsworth" wrote: He claimed it was H&S, went for a **** and then never even bothered to wash his hands or use the working hand drier. You should have reported him to his manager for H&S. Best to to just get paid. Their money. And that's somewhere you won't accept a cuppa in future. I was not offered a brew. -- Adam |
#19
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On 2012-08-29, ARWadsworth wrote:
I can have my time wasted more than that. A couple of months ago I had to drop the job I was doing and I had to drive 100 miles north to swap a broken hand drier in a gents toilets (contract work and we have to turn up when required). I spoke to the manager and he showed me the faulty hand drier. I asked him why the job could not wait (ie allow someone to arrive there for 8am in the morning do the work instead of driving there in work time) as there were two hand driers and the other one still worked. He claimed it was H&S, went for a **** and then never even bothered to wash his hands or use the working hand drier. That's a more serious H&S violation! You don't get these serious technical problems where they provide paper towels like civilized people... |
#20
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
Adam Funk wrote:
On 2012-08-29, ARWadsworth wrote: I can have my time wasted more than that. A couple of months ago I had to drop the job I was doing and I had to drive 100 miles north to swap a broken hand drier in a gents toilets (contract work and we have to turn up when required). I spoke to the manager and he showed me the faulty hand drier. I asked him why the job could not wait (ie allow someone to arrive there for 8am in the morning do the work instead of driving there in work time) as there were two hand driers and the other one still worked. He claimed it was H&S, went for a **** and then never even bothered to wash his hands or use the working hand drier. That's a more serious H&S violation! You don't get these serious technical problems where they provide paper towels like civilized people... He never washed his hands! -- Adam |
#21
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On 2012-08-29, ARWadsworth wrote:
Adam Funk wrote: On 2012-08-29, ARWadsworth wrote: I can have my time wasted more than that. A couple of months ago I had to drop the job I was doing and I had to drive 100 miles north to swap a broken hand drier in a gents toilets (contract work and we have to turn up when required). I spoke to the manager and he showed me the faulty hand drier. I asked him why the job could not wait (ie allow someone to arrive there for 8am in the morning do the work instead of driving there in work time) as there were two hand driers and the other one still worked. He claimed it was H&S, went for a **** and then never even bothered to wash his hands or use the working hand drier. That's a more serious H&S violation! You don't get these serious technical problems where they provide paper towels like civilized people... He never washed his hands! That's what I meant by "a more serious H&S violation"! My second point was that if they'd provided paper towel dispensers, at least in addition to electric dyers, then they wouldn't have needed to pay for an emergency call-out to fix the hand drier. (As far as I'm concerned, employers, architects, &c, who provide electric driers without paper towel alternatives should be forced to use the stupid things at home.) |
#22
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
"Adam Funk" wrote in message ... You don't get these serious technical problems where they provide paper towels like civilized people... NHS facilities provide paper hand towels. They do so because they are trying to stop infection. Hand driers spread infection. High speed hand driers spread more. |
#23
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
dennis@home wrote:
"Adam Funk" wrote in message ... You don't get these serious technical problems where they provide paper towels like civilized people... NHS facilities provide paper hand towels. They do so because they are trying to stop infection. Hand driers spread infection. High speed hand driers spread more. Not if you have clean hands. -- Adam |
#24
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On 29/08/2012 22:08, dennis@home wrote:
"Adam Funk" wrote in message ... You don't get these serious technical problems where they provide paper towels like civilized people... NHS facilities provide paper hand towels. They do so because they are trying to stop infection. Which only helps if the patients AND staff wash their hands. My wife works for the NHS and whenever she uses the toilets at work, she then exits the cubicle, washes her hands, dries them, uses another paper towel to turn the tap off and another to open the doors on the way back to her office, where she drops the towel into her deskside bin - she's seen far too many staff exit the cubicles and then leave without washing their hands! SteveW |
#25
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On 29/08/2012 22:08, dennis@home wrote:
"Adam Funk" wrote in message ... You don't get these serious technical problems where they provide paper towels like civilized people... NHS facilities provide paper hand towels. They do so because they are trying to stop infection. Hand driers spread infection. High speed hand driers spread more. That is a load of old bollox promoted by paper towel manufacturers. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#26
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On 30/08/2012 08:26, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 29/08/2012 22:08, dennis@home wrote: "Adam Funk" wrote in message ... You don't get these serious technical problems where they provide paper towels like civilized people... NHS facilities provide paper hand towels. They do so because they are trying to stop infection. Hand driers spread infection. High speed hand driers spread more. That is a load of old bollox promoted by paper towel manufacturers. Trials last year showed that washing your hands and drying them on either paper towels or a continuous loop cotton towel reduced the bacterial count on hands by 45%-60%. Warm air hand driers, on average, increased the count by 225%. The nice warm interior of a hand drier in the relatively moist environment of a toilet is an ideal breeding ground for bacteria. Fortunately, they are normally ones our immune systems can deal with, but not always, and a hospital is a good place to find both highly potent bacteria and lowered immunity. The big advantage of warm air hand driers is not improved hygiene - they can spread bacteria up to half a metre from the machine (2m for the high powered jet dryers) - but lowered cost of maintaining the toilet facilities. I use paper towels whenever they are provided. Colin Bignell |
#27
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On 30/08/2012 09:13, Nightjar wrote:
On 30/08/2012 08:26, The Medway Handyman wrote: On 29/08/2012 22:08, dennis@home wrote: "Adam Funk" wrote in message ... You don't get these serious technical problems where they provide paper towels like civilized people... NHS facilities provide paper hand towels. They do so because they are trying to stop infection. Hand driers spread infection. High speed hand driers spread more. That is a load of old bollox promoted by paper towel manufacturers. Trials last year showed that washing your hands and drying them on either paper towels or a continuous loop cotton towel reduced the bacterial count on hands by 45%-60%. Warm air hand driers, on average, increased the count by 225%. Funded by the European Tissue Symposium.... The nice warm interior of a hand drier in the relatively moist environment of a toilet is an ideal breeding ground for bacteria. Fortunately, they are normally ones our immune systems can deal with, but not always, and a hospital is a good place to find both highly potent bacteria and lowered immunity. The big advantage of warm air hand driers is not improved hygiene - they can spread bacteria up to half a metre from the machine (2m for the high powered jet dryers) - but lowered cost of maintaining the toilet facilities. I use paper towels whenever they are provided. Colin Bignell -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#28
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote: On 29/08/2012 22:08, dennis@home wrote: "Adam Funk" wrote in message ... You don't get these serious technical problems where they provide paper towels like civilized people... NHS facilities provide paper hand towels. They do so because they are trying to stop infection. Hand driers spread infection. High speed hand driers spread more. That is a load of old bollox promoted by paper towel manufacturers. the big problem with hot air dryers is they heat up the room which amplifies the 'pong'. Lots of air changes are needed. -- From KT24 Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18 |
#29
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On 2012-08-30, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 30/08/2012 09:13, Nightjar wrote: On 30/08/2012 08:26, The Medway Handyman wrote: On 29/08/2012 22:08, dennis@home wrote: NHS facilities provide paper hand towels. They do so because they are trying to stop infection. Hand driers spread infection. High speed hand driers spread more. That is a load of old bollox promoted by paper towel manufacturers. Trials last year showed that washing your hands and drying them on either paper towels or a continuous loop cotton towel reduced the bacterial count on hands by 45%-60%. Warm air hand driers, on average, increased the count by 225%. Funded by the European Tissue Symposium.... The studies funded by the hand-drier makers all compared bacteria on hands dried *thoroughly* with hand-driers against hands dried with paper towels, and they did *not* investigate bacteria spread around the room. How many people are inclined to spend the time it takes to dry their hands thoroughly with those awful machines? You only need to look at the typical provision of them to see that the installers know they will go underused (example from my office: 3 toilets, 3 urinals, 4 sinks, 1 hand-drier). And then there's the noise pollution (especially from the fast Dyson ones). Would you use a hand-drier in your house? |
#30
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
Adam Funk wrote:
On 2012-08-30, The Medway Handyman wrote: On 30/08/2012 09:13, Nightjar wrote: On 30/08/2012 08:26, The Medway Handyman wrote: On 29/08/2012 22:08, dennis@home wrote: NHS facilities provide paper hand towels. They do so because they are trying to stop infection. Hand driers spread infection. High speed hand driers spread more. That is a load of old bollox promoted by paper towel manufacturers. Trials last year showed that washing your hands and drying them on either paper towels or a continuous loop cotton towel reduced the bacterial count on hands by 45%-60%. Warm air hand driers, on average, increased the count by 225%. Funded by the European Tissue Symposium.... The studies funded by the hand-drier makers all compared bacteria on hands dried *thoroughly* with hand-driers against hands dried with paper towels, and they did *not* investigate bacteria spread around the room. How many people are inclined to spend the time it takes to dry their hands thoroughly with those awful machines? You only need to look at the typical provision of them to see that the installers know they will go underused (example from my office: 3 toilets, 3 urinals, 4 sinks, 1 hand-drier). And then there's the noise pollution (especially from the fast Dyson ones). Would you use a hand-drier in your house? Has anyone done any studies to see if you would be better of just NOT washing your hands after a pee? Seems like you're more likely to pick up someone else's faecal contaminant through contact with taps etc. Tim Tim |
#31
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On 30/08/2012 09:20, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 30/08/2012 09:13, Nightjar wrote: On 30/08/2012 08:26, The Medway Handyman wrote: On 29/08/2012 22:08, dennis@home wrote: "Adam Funk" wrote in message ... You don't get these serious technical problems where they provide paper towels like civilized people... NHS facilities provide paper hand towels. They do so because they are trying to stop infection. Hand driers spread infection. High speed hand driers spread more. That is a load of old bollox promoted by paper towel manufacturers. Trials last year showed that washing your hands and drying them on either paper towels or a continuous loop cotton towel reduced the bacterial count on hands by 45%-60%. Warm air hand driers, on average, increased the count by 225%. Funded by the European Tissue Symposium.... That does not make the findings wrong, although it may affect the way in which the tests are run. Each side will choose the methods that give them the best chances of seeing the results that suit them. The hand dryer manufacturers test in a laboratory, while the tests I refer to were real life tests on units in use in toilets. The results are entirely consistent with those I obtained from bioburden testing when I ran a clean room. The nice warm interior of a hand drier in the relatively moist environment of a toilet is an ideal breeding ground for bacteria. Fortunately, they are normally ones our immune systems can deal with, but not always, and a hospital is a good place to find both highly potent bacteria and lowered immunity. The big advantage of warm air hand driers is not improved hygiene - they can spread bacteria up to half a metre from the machine (2m for the high powered jet dryers) - but lowered cost of maintaining the toilet facilities. I use paper towels whenever they are provided. Colin Bignell |
#32
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On 30/08/2012 10:34, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2012-08-30, The Medway Handyman wrote: On 30/08/2012 09:13, Nightjar wrote: On 30/08/2012 08:26, The Medway Handyman wrote: On 29/08/2012 22:08, dennis@home wrote: NHS facilities provide paper hand towels. They do so because they are trying to stop infection. Hand driers spread infection. High speed hand driers spread more. That is a load of old bollox promoted by paper towel manufacturers. Trials last year showed that washing your hands and drying them on either paper towels or a continuous loop cotton towel reduced the bacterial count on hands by 45%-60%. Warm air hand driers, on average, increased the count by 225%. Funded by the European Tissue Symposium.... The studies funded by the hand-drier makers all compared bacteria on hands dried *thoroughly* with hand-driers against hands dried with paper towels, and they did *not* investigate bacteria spread around the room. How many people are inclined to spend the time it takes to dry their hands thoroughly with those awful machines? You only need to look at the typical provision of them to see that the installers know they will go underused (example from my office: 3 toilets, 3 urinals, 4 sinks, 1 hand-drier). And then there's the noise pollution (especially from the fast Dyson ones). Would you use a hand-drier in your house? I was in the cleaning equipment game for 30 years before I became a handyman, the hand driers v paper towels argument was a regular feature in the trade press. The paper manufacturers are huge multi nationals, the hand drier manufacturers are largely SME's. The paper guys have two competitors - other paper guys & hand driers. They compete with each other buy offering free dispensers which only take their paper, until a 'patent part' paper roll is introduced, then they change again. The problem is they can't get into the huge high volume market with paper towels; shopping malls, airports, motorway service areas - because of the huge logistics problem - storing paper, replenishing supplies, removing waste. So they constantly make the claim that hand driers spread bacteria. However, if you have just wased your hands in a biocidal soap, there are no bacteria to be blown about. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#33
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
"Tim+" wrote in message ... Has anyone done any studies to see if you would be better of just NOT washing your hands after a pee? Seems like you're more likely to pick up someone else's faecal contaminant through contact with taps etc. Why do you think the NHS use lever taps or press button taps. You don't have to touch them after washing. Also you can always wash the taps while washing your hands. |
#34
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
"Nightjar" wrote in message ... On 30/08/2012 09:20, The Medway Handyman wrote: On 30/08/2012 09:13, Nightjar wrote: On 30/08/2012 08:26, The Medway Handyman wrote: On 29/08/2012 22:08, dennis@home wrote: "Adam Funk" wrote in message ... You don't get these serious technical problems where they provide paper towels like civilized people... NHS facilities provide paper hand towels. They do so because they are trying to stop infection. Hand driers spread infection. High speed hand driers spread more. That is a load of old bollox promoted by paper towel manufacturers. Trials last year showed that washing your hands and drying them on either paper towels or a continuous loop cotton towel reduced the bacterial count on hands by 45%-60%. Warm air hand driers, on average, increased the count by 225%. Funded by the European Tissue Symposium.... That does not make the findings wrong, although it may affect the way in which the tests are run. Each side will choose the methods that give them the best chances of seeing the results that suit them. The hand dryer manufacturers test in a laboratory, while the tests I refer to were real life tests on units in use in toilets. The results are entirely consistent with those I obtained from bioburden testing when I ran a clean room. I don't really trust any claims made by someone who insists secondary smoking is harmless. Especially when secondary smoking makes me ill. |
#35
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On 30/08/2012 18:54, dennis@home wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message ... On 30/08/2012 09:20, The Medway Handyman wrote: On 30/08/2012 09:13, Nightjar wrote: On 30/08/2012 08:26, The Medway Handyman wrote: On 29/08/2012 22:08, dennis@home wrote: "Adam Funk" wrote in message ... You don't get these serious technical problems where they provide paper towels like civilized people... NHS facilities provide paper hand towels. They do so because they are trying to stop infection. Hand driers spread infection. High speed hand driers spread more. That is a load of old bollox promoted by paper towel manufacturers. Trials last year showed that washing your hands and drying them on either paper towels or a continuous loop cotton towel reduced the bacterial count on hands by 45%-60%. Warm air hand driers, on average, increased the count by 225%. Funded by the European Tissue Symposium.... That does not make the findings wrong, although it may affect the way in which the tests are run. Each side will choose the methods that give them the best chances of seeing the results that suit them. The hand dryer manufacturers test in a laboratory, while the tests I refer to were real life tests on units in use in toilets. The results are entirely consistent with those I obtained from bioburden testing when I ran a clean room. I don't really trust any claims made by someone who insists secondary smoking is harmless. Especially when secondary smoking makes me ill. Life has made you ill, you sad git. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#36
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On 30/08/2012 18:26, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 30/08/2012 10:34, Adam Funk wrote: On 2012-08-30, The Medway Handyman wrote: On 30/08/2012 09:13, Nightjar wrote: On 30/08/2012 08:26, The Medway Handyman wrote: On 29/08/2012 22:08, dennis@home wrote: NHS facilities provide paper hand towels. They do so because they are trying to stop infection. Hand driers spread infection. High speed hand driers spread more. That is a load of old bollox promoted by paper towel manufacturers. Trials last year showed that washing your hands and drying them on either paper towels or a continuous loop cotton towel reduced the bacterial count on hands by 45%-60%. Warm air hand driers, on average, increased the count by 225%. Funded by the European Tissue Symposium.... The studies funded by the hand-drier makers all compared bacteria on hands dried *thoroughly* with hand-driers against hands dried with paper towels, and they did *not* investigate bacteria spread around the room. How many people are inclined to spend the time it takes to dry their hands thoroughly with those awful machines? You only need to look at the typical provision of them to see that the installers know they will go underused (example from my office: 3 toilets, 3 urinals, 4 sinks, 1 hand-drier). And then there's the noise pollution (especially from the fast Dyson ones). Would you use a hand-drier in your house? I was in the cleaning equipment game for 30 years before I became a handyman, the hand driers v paper towels argument was a regular feature in the trade press. The paper manufacturers are huge multi nationals, the hand drier manufacturers are largely SME's. I would not class Rentokil Initial as an SME. The paper guys have two competitors - other paper guys & hand driers. They compete with each other buy offering free dispensers which only take their paper, until a 'patent part' paper roll is introduced, then they change again. The problem is they can't get into the huge high volume market with paper towels; shopping malls, airports, motorway service areas - because of the huge logistics problem - storing paper, replenishing supplies, removing waste. So they constantly make the claim that hand driers spread bacteria. However, if you have just wased your hands in a biocidal soap, there are no bacteria to be blown about. That is making the, probably invalid, assumption that the person washing their hands has been trained in how to wash their hands in a manner that ensures all parts are cleansed and that they do it properly. It is also irrelevant in the majority of toilets, which are unlikely to pay for a biocidal soap, and ignores the fact that a lot of bacteria can breed inside the hand dryer. Colin Bignell |
#37
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 11:10:22 +0100, Tim+
wrote: Adam Funk wrote: On 2012-08-30, The Medway Handyman wrote: On 30/08/2012 09:13, Nightjar wrote: On 30/08/2012 08:26, The Medway Handyman wrote: On 29/08/2012 22:08, dennis@home wrote: NHS facilities provide paper hand towels. They do so because they are trying to stop infection. Hand driers spread infection. High speed hand driers spread more. That is a load of old bollox promoted by paper towel manufacturers. Trials last year showed that washing your hands and drying them on either paper towels or a continuous loop cotton towel reduced the bacterial count on hands by 45%-60%. Warm air hand driers, on average, increased the count by 225%. Funded by the European Tissue Symposium.... The studies funded by the hand-drier makers all compared bacteria on hands dried *thoroughly* with hand-driers against hands dried with paper towels, and they did *not* investigate bacteria spread around the room. How many people are inclined to spend the time it takes to dry their hands thoroughly with those awful machines? You only need to look at the typical provision of them to see that the installers know they will go underused (example from my office: 3 toilets, 3 urinals, 4 sinks, 1 hand-drier). And then there's the noise pollution (especially from the fast Dyson ones). Would you use a hand-drier in your house? Has anyone done any studies to see if you would be better of just NOT washing your hands after a pee? Seems like you're more likely to pick up someone else's faecal contaminant through contact with taps etc. Not something I worry too much about since I'm going to wash everything off my hands moments later. Push-down taps that you don't have to turn off or, as Dennis mentions, lever taps make it better too. No, the thing that gets me - after I've done the right thing and washed and dried my hands - is that I'm going to have to touch a door handle that's been touched by someone who hasn't (done the right thing.) My technique in a small, individual public toilet is to dry my hands then use the paper towel to switch off the light (if required) and unlock and open the door, throwing the towel in the bin on the way out. In a communual facility I wait for someone else to go out or in and follow them through or flick the door further open with my shoe. Nick |
#38
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 20:49:20 +0100, Nightjar wrote:
However, if you have just wased your hands in a biocidal soap, there are no bacteria to be blown about. If you believe that a "safe" biocidal soap kills everything, think again Gunga Din. It'll certainly reduce the bacterial load but there will still be millions of 'em about. That is making the, probably invalid, assumption that the person washing their hands has been trained in how to wash their hands in a manner that ensures all parts are cleansed and that they do it properly. Quite, how often do you see people just dibbling their finger tips into a dribble of cold water for 3 seconds as "washing their hands". It is also irrelevant in the majority of toilets, which are unlikely to pay for a biocidal soap, ... Most toilet do have soap these days wether it is a biocidal one is another matter. the bigger problem is the water, it's normally cold, not even the "safe" 43C tepid. If there is hot it will most likely be 60C+ and scalding... -- Cheers Dave. |
#39
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On 30/08/2012 23:13, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 20:49:20 +0100, Nightjar wrote: However, if you have just wased your hands in a biocidal soap, there are no bacteria to be blown about. If you believe that a "safe" biocidal soap kills everything, think again Gunga Din. It'll certainly reduce the bacterial load but there will still be millions of 'em about. That is making the, probably invalid, assumption that the person washing their hands has been trained in how to wash their hands in a manner that ensures all parts are cleansed and that they do it properly. Quite, how often do you see people just dibbling their finger tips into a dribble of cold water for 3 seconds as "washing their hands". It is also irrelevant in the majority of toilets, which are unlikely to pay for a biocidal soap, ... Most toilet do have soap these days wether it is a biocidal one is another matter. the bigger problem is the water, it's normally cold, not even the "safe" 43C tepid. If there is hot it will most likely be 60C+ and scalding... Do we have any stats on how many people contract the dreaded lurgy from public toilets? -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
#40
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Cordless doorbells outdone....
On 2012-08-30, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 30/08/2012 10:34, Adam Funk wrote: How many people are inclined to spend the time it takes to dry their hands thoroughly with those awful machines? You only need to look at the typical provision of them to see that the installers know they will go underused (example from my office: 3 toilets, 3 urinals, 4 sinks, 1 hand-drier). And then there's the noise pollution (especially from the fast Dyson ones). Would you use a hand-drier in your house? I was in the cleaning equipment game for 30 years before I became a handyman, the hand driers v paper towels argument was a regular feature in the trade press. The paper manufacturers are huge multi nationals, the hand drier manufacturers are largely SME's. The paper guys have two competitors - other paper guys & hand driers. They compete with each other buy offering free dispensers which only take their paper, until a 'patent part' paper roll is introduced, then they change again. The problem is they can't get into the huge high volume market with paper towels; shopping malls, airports, motorway service areas - because of the huge logistics problem - storing paper, replenishing supplies, removing waste. So they constantly make the claim that hand driers spread bacteria. However, if you have just wased your hands in a biocidal soap, there are no bacteria to be blown about. Do you have electric hand-driers in your house? Why not, if they're so great? |
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