On 31/08/2012 12:30, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2012-08-30, The Medway Handyman wrote:

On 30/08/2012 10:34, Adam Funk wrote:

How many people are inclined to spend the time it takes to dry their
hands thoroughly with those awful machines? You only need to look at
the typical provision of them to see that the installers know they
will go underused (example from my office: 3 toilets, 3 urinals, 4
sinks, 1 hand-drier). And then there's the noise pollution
(especially from the fast Dyson ones). Would you use a hand-drier in
your house?

I was in the cleaning equipment game for 30 years before I became a
handyman, the hand driers v paper towels argument was a regular feature
in the trade press.

The paper manufacturers are huge multi nationals, the hand drier
manufacturers are largely SME's.

The paper guys have two competitors - other paper guys & hand driers.

They compete with each other buy offering free dispensers which only
take their paper, until a 'patent part' paper roll is introduced, then
they change again.

The problem is they can't get into the huge high volume market with
paper towels; shopping malls, airports, motorway service areas - because
of the huge logistics problem - storing paper, replenishing supplies,
removing waste.

So they constantly make the claim that hand driers spread bacteria.

However, if you have just wased your hands in a biocidal soap, there are
no bacteria to be blown about.


Do you have electric hand-driers in your house? Why not, if they're
so great?

I don't have paper towels either.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 30/08/2012 20:49, Nightjar wrote:
On 30/08/2012 18:26, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 30/08/2012 10:34, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2012-08-30, The Medway Handyman wrote:

On 30/08/2012 09:13, Nightjar wrote:
On 30/08/2012 08:26, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 29/08/2012 22:08, dennis@home wrote:

NHS facilities provide paper hand towels.
They do so because they are trying to stop infection.
Hand driers spread infection.
High speed hand driers spread more.

That is a load of old bollox promoted by paper towel manufacturers.

Trials last year showed that washing your hands and drying them on
either paper towels or a continuous loop cotton towel reduced the
bacterial count on hands by 45%-60%. Warm air hand driers, on average,
increased the count by 225%.

Funded by the European Tissue Symposium....

The studies funded by the hand-drier makers all compared bacteria on
hands dried *thoroughly* with hand-driers against hands dried with
paper towels, and they did *not* investigate bacteria spread around
the room.

How many people are inclined to spend the time it takes to dry their
hands thoroughly with those awful machines? You only need to look at
the typical provision of them to see that the installers know they
will go underused (example from my office: 3 toilets, 3 urinals, 4
sinks, 1 hand-drier). And then there's the noise pollution
(especially from the fast Dyson ones). Would you use a hand-drier in
your house?

I was in the cleaning equipment game for 30 years before I became a
handyman, the hand driers v paper towels argument was a regular feature
in the trade press.

The paper manufacturers are huge multi nationals, the hand drier
manufacturers are largely SME's.

I would not class Rentokil Initial as an SME.

Hand driers are a tiny part of their overall business.

The paper guys have two competitors - other paper guys & hand driers.

They compete with each other buy offering free dispensers which only
take their paper, until a 'patent part' paper roll is introduced, then
they change again.

The problem is they can't get into the huge high volume market with
paper towels; shopping malls, airports, motorway service areas - because
of the huge logistics problem - storing paper, replenishing supplies,
removing waste.

So they constantly make the claim that hand driers spread bacteria.

However, if you have just wased your hands in a biocidal soap, there are
no bacteria to be blown about.

That is making the, probably invalid, assumption that the person washing
their hands has been trained in how to wash their hands in a manner that
ensures all parts are cleansed and that they do it properly. It is also
irrelevant in the majority of toilets, which are unlikely to pay for a
biocidal soap, and ignores the fact that a lot of bacteria can breed
inside the hand dryer.

Not in a high volume washroom.




--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Adam Funk wrote:
On 2012-08-30, The Medway Handyman wrote:

On 30/08/2012 10:34, Adam Funk wrote:

How many people are inclined to spend the time it takes to dry
their hands thoroughly with those awful machines? You only need
to look at the typical provision of them to see that the
installers know they will go underused (example from my office: 3
toilets, 3 urinals, 4 sinks, 1 hand-drier). And then there's the
noise pollution (especially from the fast Dyson ones). Would you
use a hand-drier in your house?

I was in the cleaning equipment game for 30 years before I became a
handyman, the hand driers v paper towels argument was a regular
feature in the trade press.

The paper manufacturers are huge multi nationals, the hand drier
manufacturers are largely SME's.

The paper guys have two competitors - other paper guys & hand
driers.

They compete with each other buy offering free dispensers which only
take their paper, until a 'patent part' paper roll is introduced,
then they change again.

The problem is they can't get into the huge high volume market with
paper towels; shopping malls, airports, motorway service areas -
because of the huge logistics problem - storing paper, replenishing
supplies, removing waste.

So they constantly make the claim that hand driers spread bacteria.

However, if you have just wased your hands in a biocidal soap,
there are no bacteria to be blown about.


Do you have electric hand-driers in your house? Why not, if they're
so great?

I don't have one because I would have to remove the bathroom tiles to get
the supply cable in.



--
Adam

On 31/08/2012 19:15, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 30/08/2012 20:49, Nightjar wrote:
On 30/08/2012 18:26, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 30/08/2012 10:34, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2012-08-30, The Medway Handyman wrote:

On 30/08/2012 09:13, Nightjar wrote:
On 30/08/2012 08:26, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 29/08/2012 22:08, dennis@home wrote:

NHS facilities provide paper hand towels.
They do so because they are trying to stop infection.
Hand driers spread infection.
High speed hand driers spread more.

That is a load of old bollox promoted by paper towel manufacturers.

Trials last year showed that washing your hands and drying them on
either paper towels or a continuous loop cotton towel reduced the
bacterial count on hands by 45%-60%. Warm air hand driers, on
average,
increased the count by 225%.

Funded by the European Tissue Symposium....

The studies funded by the hand-drier makers all compared bacteria on
hands dried *thoroughly* with hand-driers against hands dried with
paper towels, and they did *not* investigate bacteria spread around
the room.

How many people are inclined to spend the time it takes to dry their
hands thoroughly with those awful machines? You only need to look at
the typical provision of them to see that the installers know they
will go underused (example from my office: 3 toilets, 3 urinals, 4
sinks, 1 hand-drier). And then there's the noise pollution
(especially from the fast Dyson ones). Would you use a hand-drier in
your house?

I was in the cleaning equipment game for 30 years before I became a
handyman, the hand driers v paper towels argument was a regular feature
in the trade press.

The paper manufacturers are huge multi nationals, the hand drier
manufacturers are largely SME's.

I would not class Rentokil Initial as an SME.

Hand driers are a tiny part of their overall business.

What is important is not how much of their business is in hand driers,
except, possibly as an indication of the relative demand for them, but
what penetration they have into the washroom business. They are a major
player and they supply all types of equipment. The same option is open
to any large towel supplier, so they don't really need to falsify data.

The paper guys have two competitors - other paper guys & hand driers.

They compete with each other buy offering free dispensers which only
take their paper, until a 'patent part' paper roll is introduced, then
they change again.

The problem is they can't get into the huge high volume market with
paper towels; shopping malls, airports, motorway service areas - because
of the huge logistics problem - storing paper, replenishing supplies,
removing waste.

So they constantly make the claim that hand driers spread bacteria.

However, if you have just wased your hands in a biocidal soap, there are
no bacteria to be blown about.

That is making the, probably invalid, assumption that the person washing
their hands has been trained in how to wash their hands in a manner that
ensures all parts are cleansed and that they do it properly. It is also
irrelevant in the majority of toilets, which are unlikely to pay for a
biocidal soap, and ignores the fact that a lot of bacteria can breed
inside the hand dryer.

Not in a high volume washroom.

Do you have microbiological data to back up that claim? As I said, the
study is consistent with my experiences from running a clean room and
that is based upon daily bioburden testing over a period of 15 years.

Colin Bignell

On Sat, 01 Sep 2012 12:33:26 +0100, Nightjar
wrote:

biocidal soap, and ignores the fact that a lot of bacteria can breed
inside the hand dryer.

Not in a high volume washroom.

Do you have microbiological data to back up that claim? As I said, the
study is consistent with my experiences from running a clean room and
that is based upon daily bioburden testing over a period of 15 years.

Well, from my own observations, I've seen the bottom of many hand
driers and they're utterly filthy. All the hot air stream does is blow
millions of bug over my hands.
So no thank you.
Horrible things. Even if you succeed in cleaning and drying your hands
properly you still have to open the door via a handle that's been used
by a legion of durrty duurrrttty *******s before who've never bothered
washing at all.
Filthy filthy ****s, the majority of blokes in pubs and service
stations.

On 2012-08-31, ARWadsworth wrote:

Adam Funk wrote:

Do you have electric hand-driers in your house? Why not, if they're
so great?

I don't have one because I would have to remove the bathroom tiles to get
the supply cable in.

If you were redoing the bathroom, you'd actually consider using one?
The noise & the irritating waste of time wouldn't bother you?

On Wednesday, August 29, 2012 5:31:51 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I once drove 50 miles to Wimbledon, tennis, to a TV scanner after a
similar conversation. I found that the customer had added an extra 4
way multiblock to the set up, one with a switch on it. I explained to
him how the switch worked and drove 50 miles back again.
Not long after moving to my present place of work (before the mobile phone became ubiquitous) I had to drive about 130 miles to a customer because they'd lost signal on the fibre link we'd supplied them. By the time I arrived, at around 7p.m., they had discovered the fault for themselves and fixed it - the bodge they were using to connect to the electrical input had finally given up and one of the connector pins was broken. Subsequent discussion disclosed that the connector they had specified - which had cost us enormous effort to source - was not really the one they wanted; they'd have preferred the one we normally used!
Still, they had the decency to buy me dinner, and it was long enough ago that I could charge full mileage rate for the whole journey...

Adam Funk wrote:
On 2012-08-31, ARWadsworth wrote:

Adam Funk wrote:

Do you have electric hand-driers in your house? Why not, if
they're so great?

I don't have one because I would have to remove the bathroom tiles
to get the supply cable in.

If you were redoing the bathroom, you'd actually consider using one?

Yes

The noise & the irritating waste of time wouldn't bother you?

That's the ex wife and ex gfs you are talking about:-)

But the noise would be a problem if others were asleep in the house.

--
Adam