I asked this question in another group and no-one came up with a definitive
current answer. The most recent legal(ish) answer was dated 2008

" I was informed last evening that it is illegal to tow a broken down
vehicle with a rope and it has to be a solid tow-bar. Is this true?"

--
Jim S
Tyneside UK
www.jimscott.co.uk

On 07/10/2011 11:27, Jim S wrote:
I asked this question in another group and no-one came up with a definitive
current answer. The most recent legal(ish) answer was dated 2008

" I was informed last evening that it is illegal to tow a broken down
vehicle with a rope and it has to be a solid tow-bar. Is this true?"


Towing is covered by the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use)
Regulations 1986, which, in Regulation 85 (1), states:

'Where a trailer is attached to the vehicle immediately in front of it
solely by means of a rope or chain, the distance between the trailer and
that vehicle shall not in any case exceed 4.5 m, and shall not exceed
1.5 m unless the rope or chain is made clearly visible to any other
person using the road within a reasonable distance from either side.'

I have read that rigid tow bars are, however, a requirement when towing
on a motorway, but have not found the relevant legislation.

Colin Bignell

On Oct 7, 12:22*pm, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 7 Oct 2011 11:27:36 +0100, Jim S wrote:
I asked this question in another group and no-one came up with a definitive
current answer. The most recent legal(ish) answer was dated 2008

" I was informed last evening that it is illegal to tow a broken down
vehicle with a rope and it has to be a solid tow-bar. Is this true?"

Seehttp://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069855
and scroll down to section 98 where it says
"In the event of a breakdown, be aware that towing a vehicle on a tow
rope is potentially dangerous. You should consider professional
recovery."
which doesn't specifically forbid it, it just says it is potentially
dangerous. As it's a government web site, I presume towing with a rope
is OK as long as you're careful.

'Its potentially dangerous,' as is all driving. Its just stating the
completely obvious, at least to any person capable of driving. Any
towee will be aware of the risks of travelling very close to the
vehicle in front, with no ability to see ahead if its a van, no
ability to steer one's course or even stop the combined vehicles.

Rope towing has always been an economic choice. Increasing wealth and
awareness of liability and risk issues is seeing it become unpopular.


NT

On Oct 7, 11:27*am, Jim S wrote:
I asked this question in another group and no-one came up with a definitive
current answer. The most recent legal(ish) answer was dated 2008

" I was informed last evening that it is illegal to tow a broken down
vehicle with a rope and it has to be a solid tow-bar. Is this true?"

Try sending this to uk.legal.moderated where if it *is* true, someone
will be along quite shortly to quote and verse.

It may take longer to prove it *isn't* true, because there may well
not be anything to quote.

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 07/10/2011 11:27, Jim S wrote:
I asked this question in another group and no-one came up with a
definitive
current answer. The most recent legal(ish) answer was dated 2008

" I was informed last evening that it is illegal to tow a broken down
vehicle with a rope and it has to be a solid tow-bar. Is this true?"


Towing is covered by the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations
1986, which, in Regulation 85 (1), states:

'Where a trailer is attached to the vehicle immediately in front of it
solely by means of a rope or chain, the distance between the trailer and
that vehicle shall not in any case exceed 4.5 m, and shall not exceed 1.5
m unless the rope or chain is made clearly visible to any other person
using the road within a reasonable distance from either side.'

I have read that rigid tow bars are, however, a requirement when towing on
a motorway, but have not found the relevant legislation.

Colin Bignell

IIRC you can tow off a motorway with a rope, but not tow onto one. A rigid
bar can be used to tow on and off. That is however from some time ago.

Steve W



--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---

In article
,
NT wrote:
'Its potentially dangerous,' as is all driving. Its just stating the
completely obvious, at least to any person capable of driving. Any
towee will be aware of the risks of travelling very close to the
vehicle in front, with no ability to see ahead if its a van, no
ability to steer one's course or even stop the combined vehicles.

The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither. So towing with a
rope should be done with great caution - and only if both drivers have
experience of doing so.

--
*All men are idiots, and I married their King.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
NT wrote:
'Its potentially dangerous,' as is all driving. Its just stating the
completely obvious, at least to any person capable of driving. Any
towee will be aware of the risks of travelling very close to the
vehicle in front, with no ability to see ahead if its a van, no
ability to steer one's course or even stop the combined vehicles.

The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither. So towing with
a rope should be done with great caution - and only if both drivers
have experience of doing so.

The only time I was towed with a rope was nearly 40 years ago, and it was
bloody frightening. I don't normally drive less than a car's length behind
the vehicle in front.



--
Register as an organ donor with the NHS online. It takes 1 minute and
saves you carrying an organ donor card with you.
http://www.uktransplant.org.uk/ukt/h...me_a_donor.jsp

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 13:58:19 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article
,
NT wrote:
'Its potentially dangerous,' as is all driving. Its just stating the
completely obvious, at least to any person capable of driving. Any
towee will be aware of the risks of travelling very close to the
vehicle in front, with no ability to see ahead if its a van, no ability
to steer one's course or even stop the combined vehicles.

The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither. So towing with a
rope should be done with great caution - and only if both drivers have
experience of doing so.

And don't do what a friend of mine once did, and forget to put the key in
the ignition of the towed vehicle to release the steering column lock ;-)
Apparently he managed a quite graceful drift into the side of a parked
van.


ISTR it feels a bit strange at first from the POV of the person in the
towed vehicle, having to start slowing down before the tow vehicle has in
order to keep the rope taut and avoid too much stress when pulling away
again; it's easy to break a rope...

cheers

Jules

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 13:58:19 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither.

Well it will, I don't think a vechicle that had absolutely no
steering or brakes without the engine running would be allowed on the
road. How ever the effort required to turn the steering wheel and get
effective braking is huge. I wouldn't want to be towed in a modern
car via rope unless the route was straight and flat or just a very
short distance.

I guess many people get caught by the fact the first application of
the brakes after the engine is stopped is normally fairly normal from
stored vacuum. It's the second and subsequent ones when you have
literally stand on the pedal...

So towing with a rope should be done with great caution - and only if
both drivers have experience of doing so.

I have towed and have been towed by rope, I prefer to be the tug.
When being towed you are *very* close to the tug and really have to
concentrate looking past the tug so you can anticipate the tug
slowing and keep the rope taught. The tug just (ha!) has to remember
that the rope might be slack and pull off very gently until they feel
the weight come on or can see that the towed vehicle is moving.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
GB wrote:
The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither. So towing with
a rope should be done with great caution - and only if both drivers
have experience of doing so.

The only time I was towed with a rope was nearly 40 years ago, and it
was bloody frightening. I don't normally drive less than a car's length
behind the vehicle in front.

Which is why both drivers need to be experienced at such things. The
towing driver realising speed must be kept low regardless of holding up
other traffic.

--
*If work is so terrific, how come they have to pay you to do it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Jim S" wrote in message
...
I asked this question in another group and no-one came up with a definitive
current answer. The most recent legal(ish) answer was dated 2008

" I was informed last evening that it is illegal to tow a broken down
vehicle with a rope and it has to be a solid tow-bar. Is this true?"

--



There is no problem with towing a broken down car with a rope that is
suitable for the purpose.
As long as you comply with requirements for identifying the rope between
the vehicles, and towed car has an 'on tow' sign.


This is different to commercial towing that may well require solid tow bars.


Be warned that if you offer to Tow someone they could end up damaging your
car, and you 'may' not be covered for this.
My Father towed my sister, he stopped at junction ... she forgot that brake
servos don't operate and piled into back of his car ... he wasn't very
happy.

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither.

Well it will, I don't think a vechicle that had absolutely no
steering or brakes without the engine running would be allowed on the
road.

Neither *power* steering or brakes. Didn't say no steering or brakes *at
all* Although to some it might appear just like that.

How ever the effort required to turn the steering wheel and get
effective braking is huge. I wouldn't want to be towed in a modern
car via rope unless the route was straight and flat or just a very
short distance.

Yup. And the traffic very light. So best very early in the morning.

I guess many people get caught by the fact the first application of
the brakes after the engine is stopped is normally fairly normal from
stored vacuum. It's the second and subsequent ones when you have
literally stand on the pedal...

So towing with a rope should be done with great caution - and only if
both drivers have experience of doing so.

I have towed and have been towed by rope, I prefer to be the tug.
When being towed you are *very* close to the tug and really have to
concentrate looking past the tug so you can anticipate the tug
slowing and keep the rope taught. The tug just (ha!) has to remember
that the rope might be slack and pull off very gently until they feel
the weight come on or can see that the towed vehicle is moving.

As I said, both drivers must know what they're doing.

--
*I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Rick Hughes wrote:
Be warned that if you offer to Tow someone they could end up damaging
your car, and you 'may' not be covered for this. My Father towed my
sister, he stopped at junction ... she forgot that brake servos don't
operate and piled into back of his car ... he wasn't very happy.

Other thing is that many towing brackets as supplied with a car are only
designed for winching it onto a tow truck - and may not survive the
rigours of towing.

--
*Strip mining prevents forest fires.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither.

Well it will, I don't think a vechicle that had absolutely no
steering or brakes without the engine running would be allowed on the
road.

Neither *power* steering or brakes. Didn't say no steering or brakes *at
all* Although to some it might appear just like that.


and worse, after an hour, in fog, no lights either...

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither.

Well it will, I don't think a vechicle that had absolutely no
steering or brakes without the engine running would be allowed on the
road.

Neither *power* steering or brakes. Didn't say no steering or brakes *at
all* Although to some it might appear just like that.


and worse, after an hour, in fog, no lights either...

It depends on what the fault is. Possibly the engine/alternator still
works.

but, strickly speaking, the towed vehicle is a trailer and would need a
"trailer" lighting bar at the back - powered from the towing one.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

In article o.uk,
says...

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 13:58:19 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither.

Well it will, I don't think a vechicle that had absolutely no
steering or brakes without the engine running would be allowed on the
road. How ever the effort required to turn the steering wheel and get
effective braking is huge. I wouldn't want to be towed in a modern
car via rope unless the route was straight and flat or just a very
short distance.

I guess many people get caught by the fact the first application of
the brakes after the engine is stopped is normally fairly normal from
stored vacuum. It's the second and subsequent ones when you have
literally stand on the pedal...

So towing with a rope should be done with great caution - and only if
both drivers have experience of doing so.

I have towed and have been towed by rope, I prefer to be the tug.
When being towed you are *very* close to the tug and really have to
concentrate looking past the tug so you can anticipate the tug
slowing and keep the rope taught. The tug just (ha!) has to remember
that the rope might be slack and pull off very gently until they feel
the weight come on or can see that the towed vehicle is moving.

Yes - and no matter how careful you are, it is very very difficult to
keep the rope taught - and consequently there are frequently fearful
'snatches' as the slack in the rope is taken up.

--
Kev

Justice? You get justice in the next world,
in this world you have the law...
William Gaddis

In article ,
says...

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither.

Well it will, I don't think a vechicle that had absolutely no
steering or brakes without the engine running would be allowed on the
road.

Neither *power* steering or brakes. Didn't say no steering or brakes *at
all* Although to some it might appear just like that.

Indeed. Some years ago I bought a nearly-new VX Omega that had a problem
with its 'idle air control valve'. The symptom would be that the engine
would cut out on the over-run - and it would happen without warning and,
because the engine is quiet on the over-run, I wasn't even aware that
the engine had stopped the first time it happened. I was slowing down
for a bend, the engine stopped, I tried to turn the wheel into the bend
and for one horrible moment I thought that the steering had seized
because the wheel just wouldn't turn with normal effort. Quite
frightening...

--
Kev

Justice? You get justice in the next world,
in this world you have the law...
William Gaddis

On 07/10/2011 16:35, Ret. wrote:
In whill.co.uk,
says...

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 13:58:19 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither.

Well it will, I don't think a vechicle that had absolutely no
steering or brakes without the engine running would be allowed on the
road. How ever the effort required to turn the steering wheel and get
effective braking is huge. I wouldn't want to be towed in a modern
car via rope unless the route was straight and flat or just a very
short distance.

I guess many people get caught by the fact the first application of
the brakes after the engine is stopped is normally fairly normal from
stored vacuum. It's the second and subsequent ones when you have
literally stand on the pedal...

So towing with a rope should be done with great caution - and only if
both drivers have experience of doing so.

I have towed and have been towed by rope, I prefer to be the tug.
When being towed you are *very* close to the tug and really have to
concentrate looking past the tug so you can anticipate the tug
slowing and keep the rope taught. The tug just (ha!) has to remember
that the rope might be slack and pull off very gently until they feel
the weight come on or can see that the towed vehicle is moving.

Yes - and no matter how careful you are, it is very very difficult to
keep the rope taught - and consequently there are frequently fearful
'snatches' as the slack in the rope is taken up.

The way I was taught to do this was to aim for the vehicle being towed
to do the braking. Which obviously doesn't work for emergency stops or
if the towing vehicle is too big, but so long as you keep slow works
quite well most of the time.

I've been towed on a rope and on a rigid bar. The former experience was
much better - partly because it all took place a lot slower, partly
because there was a bigger gap and I could actually see what was going
on. The longer the rope, the better.

In article , Clive George wrote:
I've been towed on a rope and on a rigid bar. The former experience was
much better - partly because it all took place a lot slower, partly
because there was a bigger gap and I could actually see what was going
on. The longer the rope, the better.

Why was it happening much slower? (I've done both and found that not having
to worry about slack with the bar more than made up for it not being as long.)

On 07/10/2011 16:39, Ret. wrote:
In ,
says...

In whill.co.uk,
Dave wrote:
The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither.

Well it will, I don't think a vechicle that had absolutely no
steering or brakes without the engine running would be allowed on the
road.

Neither *power* steering or brakes. Didn't say no steering or brakes *at
all* Although to some it might appear just like that.

Indeed. Some years ago I bought a nearly-new VX Omega that had a problem
with its 'idle air control valve'. The symptom would be that the engine
would cut out on the over-run - and it would happen without warning and,
because the engine is quiet on the over-run, I wasn't even aware that
the engine had stopped the first time it happened. I was slowing down
for a bend, the engine stopped, I tried to turn the wheel into the bend
and for one horrible moment I thought that the steering had seized
because the wheel just wouldn't turn with normal effort. Quite
frightening...

I had an R reg vectra 1.8 with the same problen. I have been rowed on a
rope (without any power assist) and was told that braking should be
mostly done by the towed car, thus keeping the rope taut

Malcolm

On 07/10/2011 17:09, Alan Braggins wrote:
In articleH86dna7FUoe5vBLTnZ2dnUVZ8uidnZ2d@brightvie w.co.uk, Clive George wrote:
I've been towed on a rope and on a rigid bar. The former experience was
much better - partly because it all took place a lot slower, partly
because there was a bigger gap and I could actually see what was going
on. The longer the rope, the better.

Why was it happening much slower? (I've done both and found that not having
to worry about slack with the bar more than made up for it not being as long.)

Because the bar tow was from an AA man who'd done it a lot before and
had other stuff to do, but the rope was from a friend who'd not done it
nearly as much (if at all) but could afford to take his time about it.

I think the lack of visibility was the main difference - all I could see
was the back of a yellow van with flashing lights.

On Oct 7, 3:20*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 13:58:19 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither.

Well it will, I don't think a vechicle that had absolutely no
steering or brakes without the engine running would be allowed on the
road. How ever the effort required to turn the steering wheel and get
effective braking is huge. I wouldn't want to be towed in a modern
car via rope unless the route was straight and flat or just a very
short distance.

I guess many people get caught by the fact the first application of
the brakes after the engine is stopped is normally fairly normal from
stored vacuum. It's the second and subsequent ones when you have
literally stand on the pedal...

So towing with a rope should be done with great caution - and only if
both drivers have experience of doing so.

I have towed and have been towed by rope, I prefer to be the tug.
When being towed you are *very* close to the tug and really have to
concentrate looking past the tug so you can anticipate the tug
slowing and keep the rope taught. The tug just (ha!) has to remember
that the rope might be slack and pull off very gently until they feel
the weight come on or can see that the towed vehicle is moving.

--
Cheers
Dave.

I had a Citroen that had absolutely no footbrake when the engine was
off. The pedal was rock solid. It was one of the proper Citroens, ie
all hydraulic.
The hand brake wasn't very good either.

Worst option is being towed with a chain. If it goes slack when you
are being towed, the take up is neck jarring, (no stretch at all in
the chain )

On Oct 7, 4:39*pm, "Ret." wrote:
In article ,
says...



In article o.uk,
* *Dave Liquorice wrote:
The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither.

Well it will, I don't think a vechicle that had absolutely no
steering or brakes without the engine running would be allowed on the
road.

Neither *power* steering or brakes. Didn't say no steering or brakes *at
all* Although to some it might appear just like that.

Indeed. Some years ago I bought a nearly-new VX Omega that had a problem
with its 'idle air control valve'. The symptom would be that the engine
would cut out on the over-run - and it would happen without warning and,
because the engine is quiet on the over-run, I wasn't even aware that
the engine had stopped the first time it happened. I was slowing down
for a bend, the engine stopped, I tried to turn the wheel into the bend
and for one horrible moment I thought that the steering had seized
because the wheel just wouldn't turn with normal effort. Quite
frightening...

--
Kev

Justice? You get justice in the next world,
in this world you have the law...
William Gaddis

Can happen any time if the belt for the power steering pump should
break.

On 07/10/2011 12:53, NT wrote:
On Oct 7, 12:22 pm, Chris wrote:
On Fri, 7 Oct 2011 11:27:36 +0100, Jim wrote:
I asked this question in another group and no-one came up with a definitive
current answer. The most recent legal(ish) answer was dated 2008

" I was informed last evening that it is illegal to tow a broken down
vehicle with a rope and it has to be a solid tow-bar. Is this true?"

Seehttp://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069855
and scroll down to section 98 where it says
"In the event of a breakdown, be aware that towing a vehicle on a tow
rope is potentially dangerous. You should consider professional
recovery."
which doesn't specifically forbid it, it just says it is potentially
dangerous. As it's a government web site, I presume towing with a rope
is OK as long as you're careful.

'Its potentially dangerous,' as is all driving. Its just stating the
completely obvious, at least to any person capable of driving. Any
towee will be aware of the risks of travelling very close to the
vehicle in front, with no ability to see ahead if its a van, no
ability to steer one's course or even stop the combined vehicles.

Rope towing has always been an economic choice. Increasing wealth and
awareness of liability and risk issues is seeing it become unpopular.


NT
Load of nancies - try being towed by a car when riding a motorbike. Now
that's scary! Last time I tried that was in about 1964. AFAICR it was legal.

Pete

"Jim S" wrote in message
...
I asked this question in another group and no-one came up with a definitive
current answer. The most recent legal(ish) answer was dated 2008

" I was informed last evening that it is illegal to tow a broken down
vehicle with a rope and it has to be a solid tow-bar. Is this true?"


If that were the case, I would not expect major companies like Halfords to
sell tow ropes.
http://tinyurl.com/3wmt8xp
--
Tinkerer

On Fri, 7 Oct 2011 18:26:47 +0100, Tinkerer wrote:

"Jim S" wrote in message
...
I asked this question in another group and no-one came up with a definitive
current answer. The most recent legal(ish) answer was dated 2008

" I was informed last evening that it is illegal to tow a broken down
vehicle with a rope and it has to be a solid tow-bar. Is this true?"


If that were the case, I would not expect major companies like Halfords to
sell tow ropes.
http://tinyurl.com/3wmt8xp

Best evidence so far )
--
Jim S

NT wrote:
Rope towing has always been an economic choice. Increasing wealth and
awareness of liability and risk issues is seeing it become unpopular.

It has become more unpopular due to a general cluelessness and lack of DIY
in the motoring population.

If a car breaks down people now use the AA to take it to a garage for
repair. The days have gone where you would have phoned a mate who would then
tow you home so that you could DIY the repairs.

I still frequently tow cars with my brother down to his garage, however the
distances are not great.

--
Adam

In article , Pete
Shew writes

Load of nancies - try being towed by a car when riding a motorbike. Now
that's scary! Last time I tried that was in about 1964. AFAICR it was legal.

LOL, that brings back memories, I remember my dad towing a guy on a
motorbike when I was a nipper. Can't remember whether it was a tie on or
hold on for grim death number. I think he survived.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

Pete Shew wrote :
Load of nancies - try being towed by a car when riding a motorbike. Now
that's scary! Last time I tried that was in about 1964. AFAICR it was legal.

I don't think it is legal now, nor was it then.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 07/10/2011 17:29, harry wrote:

I had a Citroen that had absolutely no footbrake when the engine was
off. The pedal was rock solid. It was one of the proper Citroens, ie
all hydraulic.

I still have one :-)

The hand brake wasn't very good either.

The CX was a pain to adjust and only worked for a bit afterwards. The BX
was actually rather good. The Xantia seems similarly effective.

On Oct 7, 4:02*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
* *GB wrote:

The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither. So towing with
a rope should be done with great caution - and only if both drivers
have experience of doing so.
The only time I was towed with a rope was nearly 40 years ago, and it
was bloody frightening. I don't normally drive less than a car's length
behind the vehicle in front.

Which is why both drivers need to be experienced at such things. The
towing driver realising speed must be kept low regardless of holding up
other traffic.

If the tower forgets that, the towee's brakes can end up overheating
so badly they fail. The result is predictable.


NT

On 07/10/2011 13:43, Steve Walker wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 07/10/2011 11:27, Jim S wrote:
I asked this question in another group and no-one came up with a
definitive
current answer. The most recent legal(ish) answer was dated 2008

" I was informed last evening that it is illegal to tow a broken down
vehicle with a rope and it has to be a solid tow-bar. Is this true?"


Towing is covered by the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations
1986, which, in Regulation 85 (1), states:

'Where a trailer is attached to the vehicle immediately in front of it
solely by means of a rope or chain, the distance between the trailer and
that vehicle shall not in any case exceed 4.5 m, and shall not exceed 1.5
m unless the rope or chain is made clearly visible to any other person
using the road within a reasonable distance from either side.'

I have read that rigid tow bars are, however, a requirement when towing on
a motorway, but have not found the relevant legislation.

Colin Bignell

IIRC you can tow off a motorway with a rope, but not tow onto one. A rigid
bar can be used to tow on and off. That is however from some time ago.

I suspect it is also more theory than practice. The risk of a vehicle
sitting on the hard shoulder getting hit by another vehicle is
sufficiently high that I suspect that the authorities would summon a
recovery truck as soon as they spot one, rather than wait for a friend
of the driver to turn up with a tow rope.

Colin Bignell

On Oct 7, 4:06*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article o.uk,
* *Dave Liquorice wrote:

The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither.
Well it will, I don't think a vechicle that had absolutely no
steering or brakes without the engine running would be allowed on the
road.

Neither *power* steering or brakes. Didn't say no steering or brakes *at
all* Although to some it might appear just like that.

How ever the effort required to turn the steering wheel and get
effective braking is huge. I wouldn't want to be towed in a modern
car via rope unless the route was straight and flat or just a very
short distance.

Yup. And the traffic very light. So best very early in the morning.

I guess many people get caught by the fact the first application of
the brakes after the engine is stopped is normally fairly normal from
stored vacuum. It's the second and subsequent ones when you have
literally stand on the pedal...
So towing with a rope should be done with great caution - and only if
both drivers have experience of doing so.
I have towed and have been towed by rope, I prefer to be the tug.
When being towed you are *very* close to the tug and really have to
concentrate looking past the tug so you can anticipate the tug
slowing and keep the rope taught. The tug just (ha!) has to remember
that the rope might be slack and pull off very gently until they feel
the weight come on or can see that the towed vehicle is moving.

As I said, both drivers must know what they're doing.

The loss of power steering is trivial. But the loss of braking isn't
far off 100% on some popular brake designs.


NT

On Oct 7, 4:24*pm, charles wrote:
In article ,
* *The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article o.uk,
* *Dave Liquorice wrote:
The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither.

Well it will, I don't think a vechicle that had absolutely no
steering or brakes without the engine running would be allowed on the
road.

Neither *power* steering or brakes. Didn't say no steering or brakes *at
all* Although to some it might appear just like that.

and worse, after an hour, in fog, no lights either...

It depends on what the fault is. *Possibly the engine/alternator still
works.

but, strickly speaking, the towed vehicle is a trailer and would need a
"trailer" lighting bar at the back - powered from the towing one.

If you put the engine in high gear, with ignition switched off, you
get power brakes and electricity.


NT

On 07/10/2011 16:35, Ret. wrote:
In whill.co.uk,
says...

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 13:58:19 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither.

Well it will, I don't think a vechicle that had absolutely no
steering or brakes without the engine running would be allowed on the
road. How ever the effort required to turn the steering wheel and get
effective braking is huge. I wouldn't want to be towed in a modern
car via rope unless the route was straight and flat or just a very
short distance.

I guess many people get caught by the fact the first application of
the brakes after the engine is stopped is normally fairly normal from
stored vacuum. It's the second and subsequent ones when you have
literally stand on the pedal...

So towing with a rope should be done with great caution - and only if
both drivers have experience of doing so.

I have towed and have been towed by rope, I prefer to be the tug.
When being towed you are *very* close to the tug and really have to
concentrate looking past the tug so you can anticipate the tug
slowing and keep the rope taught. The tug just (ha!) has to remember
that the rope might be slack and pull off very gently until they feel
the weight come on or can see that the towed vehicle is moving.

Yes - and no matter how careful you are, it is very very difficult to
keep the rope taught - and consequently there are frequently fearful
'snatches' as the slack in the rope is taken up.

One reason I chose nylon when I made up a tow rope for my first car. It
was probably the most expensive rope available, but it had a lot of
stretch, which avoided most of the snatching.

Colin Bignell

On Oct 7, 4:56*pm, Clive George wrote:
On 07/10/2011 16:35, Ret. wrote:



In whill.co.uk,
says...

On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 13:58:19 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither.

Well it will, I don't think a vechicle that had absolutely no
steering or brakes without the engine running would be allowed on the
road. How ever the effort required to turn the steering wheel and get
effective braking is huge. I wouldn't want to be towed in a modern
car via rope unless the route was straight and flat or just a very
short distance.

I guess many people get caught by the fact the first application of
the brakes after the engine is stopped is normally fairly normal from
stored vacuum. It's the second and subsequent ones when you have
literally stand on the pedal...

So towing with a rope should be done with great caution - and only if
both drivers have experience of doing so.

I have towed and have been towed by rope, I prefer to be the tug.
When being towed you are *very* close to the tug and really have to
concentrate looking past the tug so you can anticipate the tug
slowing and keep the rope taught. The tug just (ha!) has to remember
that the rope might be slack and pull off very gently until they feel
the weight come on or can see that the towed vehicle is moving.

Yes - and no matter how careful you are, it is very very difficult to
keep the rope taught - and consequently there are frequently fearful
'snatches' as the slack in the rope is taken up.

The way I was taught to do this was to aim for the vehicle being towed
to do the braking. Which obviously doesn't work for emergency stops or
if the towing vehicle is too big, but so long as you keep slow works
quite well most of the time.

I've been towed on a rope and on a rigid bar. The former experience was
much better - partly because it all took place a lot slower, partly
because there was a bigger gap and I could actually see what was going
on. The longer the rope, the better.

I dont see how an emergency stop is possible when rope towing. A
towing driver that doesnt realise that is a liability IMHO.


NT

On Oct 7, 5:29*pm, harry wrote:
On Oct 7, 3:20*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:



On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 13:58:19 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
The big snag is most vehicles have both power steering and brakes. One
being towed with the engine stopped will have neither.

Well it will, I don't think a vechicle that had absolutely no
steering or brakes without the engine running would be allowed on the
road. How ever the effort required to turn the steering wheel and get
effective braking is huge. I wouldn't want to be towed in a modern
car via rope unless the route was straight and flat or just a very
short distance.

I guess many people get caught by the fact the first application of
the brakes after the engine is stopped is normally fairly normal from
stored vacuum. It's the second and subsequent ones when you have
literally stand on the pedal...

So towing with a rope should be done with great caution - and only if
both drivers have experience of doing so.

I have towed and have been towed by rope, I prefer to be the tug.
When being towed you are *very* close to the tug and really have to
concentrate looking past the tug so you can anticipate the tug
slowing and keep the rope taught. The tug just (ha!) has to remember
that the rope might be slack and pull off very gently until they feel
the weight come on or can see that the towed vehicle is moving.

I had a Citroen that had absolutely no footbrake when the engine was
off. *The pedal was rock solid. *It was one of the proper Citroens, ie
all hydraulic.
The hand brake wasn't very good either.

That's something I dislike about modern cars. With oldies one can
always use the handbrake if the main brake fails.


NT

On 07/10/2011 18:48, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I don't think it is legal now, nor was it then.

AFAIK you can only tow a bike from another bike.

Interestingly the highway code now merely says "In the event of a
breakdown, be aware that towing a vehicle on a tow rope is potentially
dangerous. You should consider professional recovery." And nothing else
at all.

Andy

Nightjar wrote:
On 07/10/2011 13:43, Steve Walker wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 07/10/2011 11:27, Jim S wrote:
I asked this question in another group and no-one came up with a
definitive
current answer. The most recent legal(ish) answer was dated 2008

" I was informed last evening that it is illegal to tow a broken
down vehicle with a rope and it has to be a solid tow-bar. Is this
true?"

Towing is covered by the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use)
Regulations 1986, which, in Regulation 85 (1), states:

'Where a trailer is attached to the vehicle immediately in front of
it solely by means of a rope or chain, the distance between the
trailer and that vehicle shall not in any case exceed 4.5 m, and
shall not exceed 1.5 m unless the rope or chain is made clearly
visible to any other person using the road within a reasonable
distance from either side.' I have read that rigid tow bars are,
however, a requirement when
towing on a motorway, but have not found the relevant legislation.

Colin Bignell

IIRC you can tow off a motorway with a rope, but not tow onto one. A
rigid bar can be used to tow on and off. That is however from some
time ago.

I suspect it is also more theory than practice. The risk of a vehicle
sitting on the hard shoulder getting hit by another vehicle is
sufficiently high that I suspect that the authorities would summon a
recovery truck as soon as they spot one, rather than wait for a friend
of the driver to turn up with a tow rope.

You are allowed 2 hours on the hard shoulder and then the police will have
the car removed for you.

--
Adam

On Fri, 7 Oct 2011 11:36:08 -0700 (PDT), NT wrote:

The loss of power steering is trivial.

That depends on how heavy the steering is without the power
assistance. On the old Mondeo it wasn't to bad, heavy certainly but
you didn't need almost every bit of upper body strength and heave the
wheel round with both hands on the same side like my current car
needs.

--
Cheers
Dave.