My last c/h boiler was a combi, and it broke down about once a year, on
average. Conversely, my parents had an old regular-type boiler (i.e., not a
combi) which never needed any maintenance in about 30 years. I now want to
install a c/h system in my new house. So, regarding my choice of boiler:
Considering the cost of purchasing, plus the cost of maintenance balanced
out against the difference in thermal efficiency, might I be doing myself a
favour by installing a cheap, old, reliable, standard boiler, say from a
demolition yard, rather than forking out for a modern condensing combi?

Many thanks,

Al

In message , AL_z
writes
My last c/h boiler was a combi, and it broke down about once a year, on
average. Conversely, my parents had an old regular-type boiler (i.e., not a
combi) which never needed any maintenance in about 30 years. I now want to
install a c/h system in my new house. So, regarding my choice of boiler:
Considering the cost of purchasing, plus the cost of maintenance balanced
out against the difference in thermal efficiency, might I be doing myself a
favour by installing a cheap, old, reliable, standard boiler, say from a
demolition yard, rather than forking out for a modern condensing combi?

Well, you could, but that WOULD be against the law

with few exceptions, any boiler installed now has to have an efficiency
which eliminates installation of anything other than a condensing boiler
--
geoff

On 3 May, 21:12, "AL_z" wrote:

favour by installing a cheap, old, reliable, standard boiler, say from a
demolition yard, rather than forking out for a modern condensing combi?

Apart from the regulatory aspects of this, reliability isn't about the
type of boiler, it's about the manufacturer's build quality. There's a
difference, it's a significant and predictable one.

Also "combi" isn't the same thing as "condensing". The drawbacks of
older, undersized combis aren't visited upon condensing boilers.

On Mon, 3 May 2010 21:24:34 +0100, geoff wrote:

with few exceptions, any boiler installed now has to have an efficiency
which eliminates installation of anything other than a condensing boiler

"condensing" does not mean "combi". A plain condensing boiler though
a little more complex than a burner, big lump of cast iron and flue
doesn't have all the flow switches, valves, interlocks and control
magicary that combis have to have.

--
Cheers
Dave.

AL_z wrote:
My last c/h boiler was a combi, and it broke down about once a year, on
average. Conversely, my parents had an old regular-type boiler (i.e., not a
combi) which never needed any maintenance in about 30 years. I now want to
install a c/h system in my new house. So, regarding my choice of boiler:
Considering the cost of purchasing, plus the cost of maintenance balanced
out against the difference in thermal efficiency, might I be doing myself a
favour by installing a cheap, old, reliable, standard boiler, say from a
demolition yard, rather than forking out for a modern condensing combi?

Reliability is more about make than type, although a system
(regular-type) boiler is less complex than a combination boiler. The
other advantage of a system boiler is that the hot water is stored in a
tank, which can have a backup immersion heater and that gives you belts
and braces cover. Both types are available as modern condensing boilers.

My personal preference is for a Vaillant system boiler and mains
pressure hot water tank, both of which are sitting in my side porch
awaiting installation.

Colin Bignell

On May 3, 9:12*pm, "AL_z" wrote:
My last c/h boiler was a combi, and it broke down about once a year, on
average. Conversely, my parents had an old regular-type boiler (i.e., not a
combi) which never needed any maintenance in about 30 years. I now want to
install a c/h system in my new house. So, regarding my choice of boiler:
Considering the cost of purchasing, plus the cost of maintenance balanced
out against the difference in thermal efficiency, might I be doing myself a
favour by installing a cheap, old, reliable, standard boiler, say from a
demolition yard, rather than forking out for a modern condensing combi?

Many thanks,

Al

In short yes, the old one would give you a better financial result,
and less hassle. It wont comply with the latest rule though. Typical
of this government.


NT

NT wrote:

In short yes, the old one would give you a better financial result,
and less hassle. It wont comply with the latest rule though. Typical
of this government.


NT

I'd love to see a true cost comparison of the cast-iron brick, over the
latest incarnations. For a start, you'd have to allow for three or four
boilers in the same time period, including all the raw material,
manufacturing, installation and maintenance overheads. The fuel cost is
just one element. Let's face it, it's a manufacturer's and service
industry's dream come true.

Andy C

"NT" wrote in message
...
On May 3, 9:12 pm, "AL_z" wrote:
My last c/h boiler was a combi, and it broke down about once a year, on
average. Conversely, my parents had an old regular-type boiler (i.e., not
a
combi) which never needed any maintenance in about 30 years. I now want to
install a c/h system in my new house. So, regarding my choice of boiler:
Considering the cost of purchasing, plus the cost of maintenance balanced
out against the difference in thermal efficiency, might I be doing myself
a
favour by installing a cheap, old, reliable, standard boiler, say from a
demolition yard, rather than forking out for a modern condensing combi?

Many thanks,

Al

In short yes, the old one would give you a better financial result,
and less hassle. It wont comply with the latest rule though.


They cannot be bought, so a silly comment.


Typical of this government.


Yep, reducing energy usage resulting less global;warming and keeping bills
down.

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
AL_z wrote:
My last c/h boiler was a combi, and it broke down about once a year, on
average. Conversely, my parents had an old regular-type boiler (i.e., not
a combi) which never needed any maintenance in about 30 years. I now want
to
install a c/h system in my new house. So, regarding my choice of boiler:
Considering the cost of purchasing, plus the cost of maintenance balanced
out against the difference in thermal efficiency, might I be doing myself
a favour by installing a cheap, old, reliable, standard boiler, say from
a demolition yard, rather than forking out for a modern condensing combi?

Reliability is more about make than type, although a system (regular-type)
boiler is less complex than a combination boiler.

Not much at all. A combi is system boiler with a 3-way valve and a plate
heat exchanger for DHW. 90% is the same.

The other advantage of a system boiler is that the hot water is stored in
a tank, which can have a backup immersion heater and that gives you belts
and braces cover.

An in-line instant electric heater can be fitted in the combi outlet. A
small box say under the sink.

Both types are available as modern condensing boilers.

My personal preference is for a Vaillant system boiler and mains pressure
hot water tank, both of which are sitting in my side porch awaiting
installation.

A poor choice as the unvented cylinder is a potential bomb. Unvented
cylinders need an annual service costing £60-£100 a year. The best, if you
have the mains pressure and flow is a high flowrate combi. Floor mounted
like the Worcester-Bosch 550 or wall mounted like the ATAG 51kW. The ATAG
is quality. It works out cheaper to fit and install and saves a hell of a
lot of space and no bomb in the house or need annual service expenses.

It is best you send back the boiler and cylinder and reassess.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

Yep, reducing energy usage resulting less global;warming and keeping
bills down.

Yet this stupid NULabour government pay people who have no means of
support, have no intention of getting such means, to have as many
children as they want. The world population has trebled since the 50s,
add to which the 3rd world quite justifiably wish to attain the same
standard of living as the developed world. To neglect this as they do,
is a FAR greater contributor to world pollution than old gas boilers.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:

My personal preference is for a Vaillant system boiler and mains pressure
hot water tank, both of which are sitting in my side porch awaiting
installation.

Which ones did you go for Colin? A similar combination is looking likely
for my system replacement.

Go for Remeha Broag Avanta plus with the weather compensation option.

Best value for money and top quality. See, I am even good to people from
Essex.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:

My personal preference is for a Vaillant system boiler and mains
pressure hot water tank, both of which are sitting in my side porch
awaiting installation.

Which ones did you go for Colin? A similar combination is looking likely
for my system replacement.

Go for Remeha Broag Avanta plus with the weather compensation option.

Best value for money and top quality. See, I am even good to people from
Essex.

What is the warranty period on these boilers?

In article ,
Toby wrote:

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:

My personal preference is for a Vaillant system boiler and mains
pressure hot water tank, both of which are sitting in my side porch
awaiting installation.

Which ones did you go for Colin? A similar combination is looking
likely for my system replacement.

Go for Remeha Broag Avanta plus with the weather compensation option.

Best value for money and top quality. See, I am even good to people
from Essex.

What is the warranty period on these boilers?

I'd look up the maker's website. That's all dribble does. And be very
careful of his 'recommendations' - he changes them more often than his
underpants. He also has no conception of hot water needs in the average
house.

--
*I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On May 4, 10:21*am, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"NT" wrote in message

...
On May 3, 9:12 pm, "AL_z" wrote:


My last c/h boiler was a combi, and it broke down about once a year, on
average. Conversely, my parents had an old regular-type boiler (i.e., not
a
combi) which never needed any maintenance in about 30 years. I now want to
install a c/h system in my new house. So, regarding my choice of boiler:
Considering the cost of purchasing, plus the cost of maintenance balanced
out against the difference in thermal efficiency, might I be doing myself
a
favour by installing a cheap, old, reliable, standard boiler, say from a
demolition yard, rather than forking out for a modern condensing combi?

Many thanks,

Al

In short yes, the old one would give you a better financial result,
and less hassle. It wont comply with the latest rule though.


They cannot be bought, so a silly comment.

Perhaps dribble is stuck permanently indoors


Typical of this government.


Yep, reducing energy usage resulting less global;warming and keeping bills
down.


frequent repairs and short boiler life mean far higher total cost of
ownership and more total energy consumed. Only a fool would defend
such legislation.


NT

On 4 May, 14:57, "Toby" wrote:

What is the warranty period on these boilers?

I want a boiler where I don't even need to know such things. Even if
they come and fix it for free afterwards, I still don't want a boiler
that fails and leaves me in the lurch.

So long as you do read up on the brand reputations and don't buy on
the basis of sticker price alone, you can get a reliable boiler
without spending excessively.

On May 3, 9:12*pm, "AL_z" wrote:
My last c/h boiler was a combi, and it broke down about once a year, on
average. Conversely, my parents had an old regular-type boiler (i.e., not a
combi) which never needed any maintenance in about 30 years. I now want to
install a c/h system in my new house. So, regarding my choice of boiler:
Considering the cost of purchasing, plus the cost of maintenance balanced
out against the difference in thermal efficiency, might I be doing myself a
favour by installing a cheap, old, reliable, standard boiler, say from a
demolition yard, rather than forking out for a modern condensing combi?


leaving aside that you probabl ywouldn't be allwoed t ofit suc ha
thing now....

When my father's coke boiler packed up, he installed an old cast iron
gas boiler that next door had just thrown out in the mid 1960s. That
was before the introduction of North Sea gas (they changed the burners
when NSG was introduced). It was still working fine when i switched
it off for th the las ttime in 2003.

Robert

"Toby" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:

My personal preference is for a Vaillant system boiler and mains
pressure hot water tank, both of which are sitting in my side porch
awaiting installation.

Which ones did you go for Colin? A similar combination is looking likely
for my system replacement.

Go for Remeha Broag Avanta plus with the weather compensation option.

Best value for money and top quality. See, I am even good to people from
Essex.

What is the warranty period on these boilers?

5 years.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Toby wrote:

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:

My personal preference is for a Vaillant system boiler and mains
pressure hot water tank, both of which are sitting in my side porch
awaiting installation.

Which ones did you go for Colin? A similar combination is looking
likely for my system replacement.

Go for Remeha Broag Avanta plus with the weather compensation option.

Best value for money and top quality. See, I am even good to people
from Essex.

What is the warranty period on these boilers?

I'd

Please eff off you are a plantpot.

"NT" wrote in message
...
On May 4, 10:21 am, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"NT" wrote in message

...
On May 3, 9:12 pm, "AL_z" wrote:


My last c/h boiler was a combi, and it broke down about once a year, on
average. Conversely, my parents had an old regular-type boiler (i.e.,
not
a
combi) which never needed any maintenance in about 30 years. I now want
to
install a c/h system in my new house. So, regarding my choice of boiler:
Considering the cost of purchasing, plus the cost of maintenance
balanced
out against the difference in thermal efficiency, might I be doing
myself
a
favour by installing a cheap, old, reliable, standard boiler, say from a
demolition yard, rather than forking out for a modern condensing combi?

Many thanks,

Al

In short yes, the old one would give you a better financial result,
and less hassle. It wont comply with the latest rule though.


They cannot be bought, so a silly comment.

Perhaps dribble is stuck permanently indoors


Typical of this government.


Yep, reducing energy usage resulting less global;warming and keeping bills
down.


frequent repairs and short boiler life mean far higher total cost of
ownership and more total energy consumed. Only a fool would defend
such legislation.


Nonsense. If you buy quality it will last and last. You are fool. Do you
know the Plantpot, the Chav and Roger?

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...

So long as you do read up on the brand reputations and don't buy on
the basis of sticker price alone, you can get a reliable boiler
without spending excessively.

Totally correct!

Doctor Drivel wrote:
Only a fool would defend such legislation.

Nonsense. If you buy quality it will last and last. You are fool. Do
you know the Plantpot, the Chav and Roger?

QED

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On 4 May, 14:57, "Toby" wrote:

What is the warranty period on these boilers?

I want a boiler where I don't even need to know such things. Even if
they come and fix it for free afterwards, I still don't want a boiler
that fails and leaves me in the lurch.

So long as you do read up on the brand reputations and don't buy on
the basis of sticker price alone, you can get a reliable boiler
without spending excessively.

Knowing the warranty does (should!) give some kind of indication to the
build quality too, a manufacturer won't want to have to keep coming out
repairing things!

We have recently had an Alpha CD28C Extra fitted to one of our offices, this
comes with a 12 year warranty. (10 Year Parts and 5 Year Labour Guarantee
plus an additional 2 years with PremierPack installation giving a total of
12 years)

The extra cost of this boiler, compared to a Worcester with a 5 year
gurantee, was a no brainer.

We just have to make sure it is serviced every year, which we do anyway.

Toby...

John Rumm wrote:
Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:

My personal preference is for a Vaillant system boiler and mains
pressure hot water tank, both of which are sitting in my side porch
awaiting installation.

Which ones did you go for Colin? A similar combination is looking likely
for my system replacement.


EcoTec plus 615 system boiler, uniSTOR 155 cylinder, VTR 360
programmable room thermostat and VR 65 control center (which is needed
for the uniSTOR). I did like the idea of a thermostat with outside
temperature compensation, but that would have been a special order and I
would not have got my trade discount on it.

If DD does not like it, I must have made the right choice.

Colin Bignell

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
....
Reliability is more about make than type, although a system
(regular-type) boiler is less complex than a combination boiler.

Not much at all. A combi is system boiler with a 3-way valve and a
plate heat exchanger for DHW. 90% is the same.

That is still more complex than a system boiler.

The other advantage of a system boiler is that the hot water is stored
in a tank, which can have a backup immersion heater and that gives you
belts and braces cover.

An in-line instant electric heater can be fitted in the combi outlet. A
small box say under the sink.

They are fairly useless if you want to fill a bath though.

Both types are available as modern condensing boilers.

My personal preference is for a Vaillant system boiler and mains
pressure hot water tank, both of which are sitting in my side porch
awaiting installation.

A poor choice as the unvented cylinder is a potential bomb.

Worse than a couple of air receivers working at 11 bar?

Unvented
cylinders need an annual service costing £60-£100 a year.

Wow, a whole pound or two a week.

The best, if
you have the mains pressure and flow is a high flowrate combi.

Been there, tried it, did not like it.

Floor
mounted like the Worcester-Bosch 550 or wall mounted like the ATAG
51kW. The ATAG is quality. It works out cheaper to fit and install and
saves a hell of a lot of space and no bomb in the house or need annual
service expenses.

You don't have your gas boiler serviced every year, but worry about the
dangers from an unvented cylinder?

Colin Bignell

Toby wrote:

What is the warranty period on these boilers?



Just FYI Dribble is one of two people on my "delete without even showing
them to me" list. The other one was spamming watches.

Andy

In message
, NT
writes
On May 4, 10:21*am, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"NT" wrote in message

...
On May 3, 9:12 pm, "AL_z" wrote:


My last c/h boiler was a combi, and it broke down about once a year, on
average. Conversely, my parents had an old regular-type boiler (i.e., not
a
combi) which never needed any maintenance in about 30 years. I now want to
install a c/h system in my new house. So, regarding my choice of boiler:
Considering the cost of purchasing, plus the cost of maintenance balanced
out against the difference in thermal efficiency, might I be doing myself
a
favour by installing a cheap, old, reliable, standard boiler, say from a
demolition yard, rather than forking out for a modern condensing combi?

Many thanks,

Al

In short yes, the old one would give you a better financial result,
and less hassle. It wont comply with the latest rule though.


They cannot be bought, so a silly comment.

Perhaps dribble is stuck permanently indoors

Not at all

they wheel him out for half an hours fresh air every day


--
geoff

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
...
Reliability is more about make than type, although a system
(regular-type) boiler is less complex than a combination boiler.

Not much at all. A combi is system boiler with a 3-way valve and a
plate heat exchanger for DHW. 90% is the same.

That is still more complex than a system boiler.

Not much.

The other advantage of a system boiler is that the hot water is stored
in a tank, which can have a backup immersion heater and that gives you
belts and braces cover.

An in-line instant electric heater can be fitted in the combi outlet. A
small box say under the sink.

They are fairly useless if you want to fill a bath though.

It is for backup and will do a shower.

If you want full backup have two boilers and one being electric and a backup
genny as well. Where do you want to stop?

Both types are available as modern condensing boilers.

My personal preference is for a Vaillant system boiler and mains
pressure hot water tank, both of which are sitting in my side porch
awaiting installation.

A poor choice as the unvented cylinder is a potential bomb.

Worse than a couple of air receivers working at 11 bar?

Uh?

Unvented cylinders need an annual service costing £60-£100 a year.

Wow, a whole pound or two a week.

That is £100 in 10 years. £2000 in 20 years. Not economical at all. Sell it
now!!!!

The best, if you have the mains pressure and flow is a high flowrate
combi.

Been there, tried it, did not like it.

Which one? What kW? You never tried an ATAG

Floor mounted like the Worcester-Bosch 550 or wall mounted like the ATAG
51kW. The ATAG is quality. It works out cheaper to fit and install and
saves a hell of a lot of space and no bomb in the house or need annual
service expenses.

You don't have your gas boiler serviced every year, but worry about the
dangers from an unvented cylinder?

I do not have my boiler serviced? It is mandatory to have the unvented
cylinder serviced.

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
. uk...
Toby wrote:

What is the warranty period on these boilers?

Just FYI Dribble is one of two people on my "delete without even showing
them to me" list. The other one was spamming watches.

You are a madman!

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:
Nightjar "cpb"@ insertmysurnamehere wrote:

My personal preference is for a Vaillant system boiler and mains
pressure hot water tank, both of which are sitting in my side porch
awaiting installation.

Which ones did you go for Colin? A similar combination is looking likely
for my system replacement.


EcoTec plus 615 system boiler, uniSTOR 155 cylinder, VTR 360 programmable
room thermostat and VR 65 control center (which is needed for the
uniSTOR). I did like the idea of a thermostat with outside temperature
compensation, but that would have been a special order and I would not
have got my trade discount on it.

If DD does not like it, I must have made the right choice.

You stupid bustard you made the wrong choice. Fit it. It costs too much to
buy, fit and run. I hope the ****er blows up. You deserve it for being so
silly.

"Andy Cap" wrote in message
o.uk...
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Only a fool would defend such legislation.

Nonsense. If you buy quality it will last and last. You are fool. Do you
know the Plantpot, the Chav and Roger?

QED

He does!

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message
, NT
writes
On May 4, 10:21 am, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"NT" wrote in message

...
On May 3, 9:12 pm, "AL_z" wrote:


My last c/h boiler was a combi, and it broke down about once a year,
on
average. Conversely, my parents had an old regular-type boiler (i.e.,
not
a
combi) which never needed any maintenance in about 30 years. I now
want to
install a c/h system in my new house. So, regarding my choice of
boiler:
Considering the cost of purchasing, plus the cost of maintenance
balanced
out against the difference in thermal efficiency, might I be doing
myself
a
favour by installing a cheap, old, reliable, standard boiler, say from
a
demolition yard, rather than forking out for a modern condensing
combi?

Many thanks,

Al

In short yes, the old one would give you a better financial result,
and less hassle. It wont comply with the latest rule though.

They cannot be bought, so a silly comment.

Perhaps dribble is stuck permanently indoors

Not

Maxie! Have you been Paddybanding tonight. I bet you look superb on stage
with your turned down wellies. Are the wellies well shined? Do you have
the matching donkey jacket? Fantastic indeed.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
...
Reliability is more about make than type, although a system
(regular-type) boiler is less complex than a combination boiler.

Not much at all. A combi is system boiler with a 3-way valve and a
plate heat exchanger for DHW. 90% is the same.

That is still more complex than a system boiler.

Not much.

But still more complex none the less.

Silly pillock!

An in-line instant electric heater can be fitted in the combi outlet. A
small box say under the sink.

They are fairly useless if you want to fill a bath though.

It is for backup and will do a shower.

What if you want a backup that does a bath?

Silly pillock, you get a shower until the combi is fixed.

If you want full backup have two boilers and one being electric and a
backup genny as well. Where do you want to stop?

A cylinder with an immersion heater in it sounds far simpler.

A combi even simpler. Silly pillock!

That is £100 in 10 years. £2000 in 20 years. Not economical at all. Sell
it now!!!!

unless you service it yourself.

Which you cannot do . G3 only!

I do not have my boiler serviced? It is mandatory to have the unvented
cylinder serviced.

No its not. (unless you can cite a statute?)

It is .

snip drivel

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
...
Reliability is more about make than type, although a system
(regular-type) boiler is less complex than a combination boiler.

Not much at all. A combi is system boiler with a 3-way valve and a
plate heat exchanger for DHW. 90% is the same.

That is still more complex than a system boiler.

Not much.

The other advantage of a system boiler is that the hot water is
stored in a tank, which can have a backup immersion heater and that
gives you belts and braces cover.

An in-line instant electric heater can be fitted in the combi outlet.
A small box say under the sink.

They are fairly useless if you want to fill a bath though.

It is for backup and will do a shower.

I don't have a shower or a shower attachment.


If you want full backup have two boilers and one being electric and a
backup genny as well. Where do you want to stop?

An immersion heater in the hot water tank will do me. I said backup, not
paranoia.


Both types are available as modern condensing boilers.

My personal preference is for a Vaillant system boiler and mains
pressure hot water tank, both of which are sitting in my side porch
awaiting installation.

A poor choice as the unvented cylinder is a potential bomb.

Worse than a couple of air receivers working at 11 bar?

Uh?

It would seem to be a simple enough question. Is an unvented cylinder at
mains pressure a greater danger than two similarly sized air receivers
working at 11 bar? I've had those around for over 20 years without being
worried about them blowing up.


Unvented cylinders need an annual service costing £60-£100 a year.

Wow, a whole pound or two a week.

That is £100 in 10 years. £2000 in 20 years. Not economical at all. Sell
it now!!!!

Interesting maths. £100 in 10 years = £2000 in 20 years. In any case, if
that really worried me, I will be saving more than £1000 a year in road
fuel when I downsize to a 2.5 litre diesel Mercedes E Class in September.

The best, if you have the mains pressure and flow is a high flowrate
combi.

Been there, tried it, did not like it.

Which one?

Long since forgotten.

What kW?

They were rated in BTU in those days and, like the make, I have long
since forgotten.

You never tried an ATAG

I can't say I have ever rated the Dutch as world leaders in engineering.

Floor mounted like the Worcester-Bosch 550 or wall mounted like the
ATAG 51kW. The ATAG is quality. It works out cheaper to fit and
install and saves a hell of a lot of space and no bomb in the house
or need annual service expenses.

You don't have your gas boiler serviced every year, but worry about
the dangers from an unvented cylinder?

I do not have my boiler serviced?

You claim no annual service expenses and I don't know anyone who
services boilers for free.

It is mandatory to have the unvented
cylinder serviced.

It is mandatory to have the air receivers serviced. So what?

Colin Bignell

In message , "Nightjar
\"cpb\"@" writes
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
om...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
news:lvOdnRoPVvdcWELWnZ2dnUVZ7vqdnZ2d@giganews .com...
...
Reliability is more about make than type, although a system
(regular-type) boiler is less complex than a combination boiler.

Not much at all. A combi is system boiler with a 3-way valve and
a plate heat exchanger for DHW. 90% is the same.

That is still more complex than a system boiler.
Not much.

The other advantage of a system boiler is that the hot water is
stored in a tank, which can have a backup immersion heater and that
gives you belts and braces cover.

An in-line instant electric heater can be fitted in the combi
outlet. A small box say under the sink.

They are fairly useless if you want to fill a bath though.
It is for backup and will do a shower.

I don't have a shower or a shower attachment.

If you want full backup have two boilers and one being electric and
a backup genny as well. Where do you want to stop?

An immersion heater in the hot water tank will do me. I said backup,
not paranoia.


Both types are available as modern condensing boilers.

My personal preference is for a Vaillant system boiler and mains
pressure hot water tank, both of which are sitting in my side porch
awaiting installation.

A poor choice as the unvented cylinder is a potential bomb.

Worse than a couple of air receivers working at 11 bar?
Uh?

It would seem to be a simple enough question. Is an unvented cylinder
at mains pressure a greater danger than two similarly sized air
receivers working at 11 bar? I've had those around for over 20 years
without being worried about them blowing up.


Unvented cylinders need an annual service costing £60-£100 a year.

Wow, a whole pound or two a week.
That is £100 in 10 years. £2000 in 20 years.

Compound interest on planet drivel

--
geoff

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
They are fairly useless if you want to fill a bath though.

It is for backup and will do a shower.

If you want full backup have two boilers and one being electric and a
backup genny as well. Where do you want to stop?

Not everyone lives in a one room council flat, dribble. For those who have
the space a storage cylinder with a backup immersion makes sense.
Something you lack entirely.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
...
Reliability is more about make than type, although a system
(regular-type) boiler is less complex than a combination boiler.

Not much at all. A combi is system boiler with a 3-way valve and a
plate heat exchanger for DHW. 90% is the same.

That is still more complex than a system boiler.

Not much.

The other advantage of a system boiler is that the hot water is stored
in a tank, which can have a backup immersion heater and that gives you
belts and braces cover.

An in-line instant electric heater can be fitted in the combi outlet. A
small box say under the sink.

They are fairly useless if you want to fill a bath though.

It is for backup and will do a shower.

I don't have a shower or a shower attachment.

Some will fill a bath slowly. Get a shower you filthy person.

If you want full backup have two boilers and one being electric and a
backup genny as well. Where do you want to stop?

An immersion heater in the hot water tank will do me. I said backup, not
paranoia.

Yep a combi and a small inline instant backup electric heater. Saves space,
no annual service charge and will not take down the side of your house. You
will die.

A poor choice as the unvented cylinder is a potential bomb.

Worse than a couple of air receivers working at 11 bar?

Uh?

It would seem to be a simple enough question. Is an unvented cylinder at
mains pressure a greater danger than two similarly sized air receivers
working at 11 bar?

yes. See my other post with evidence of catastrophic explosions.

Unvented cylinders need an annual service costing £60-£100 a year.

Wow, a whole pound or two a week.

That is £100 in 10 years. £2000 in 20 years. Not economical at all. Sell
it now!!!!

Interesting maths. £100 in 10 years = £2000 in 20 years. In any case, if
that really worried me, I will be saving more than £1000 a year in road
fuel when I downsize to a 2.5 litre diesel Mercedes E Class in September.

We are on about water heaters not your frigging car you sycophantic idiot.
It will be more like £3-4,000 over 20 years as service prices rise. Then
replacement of expensive pressure valves.They are NOT cheap at all.

You never tried an ATAG

I can't say I have ever rated the Dutch as world leaders in engineering.

They are now in combis. They invented the condensing boiler. A 51kW ATAG is
a class act - also has weather compensation as well.. And beat any unvented
cylinder. You have never heard of one.

Floor mounted like the Worcester-Bosch 550 or wall mounted like the
ATAG 51kW. The ATAG is quality. It works out cheaper to fit and
install and saves a hell of a lot of space and no bomb in the house or
need annual service expenses.

You don't have your gas boiler serviced every year, but worry about the
dangers from an unvented cylinder?

I do not have my boiler serviced?

You claim no annual service expenses

No annual service on just have a cylinder of water. You will have to pay a
service on the boiler AND unvented cylinder.

Read on.....

BS-approved UDHW systems training manual, under the heading of maintenance,
p40:

"the installer is responsible for the safe INSTALLATION of the unit. He/she
must also make his customer aware that periodic checks of the equipment are
ESSENTIAL FOR SAFETY... some manufacturers recommend a MAXIMUM of 12 months.
Experience of local water conditions may indicate that MORE FREQUENT
inspection is desirable."

BS6700: 1997 states that with unvented cylinders, the "maintenance and
periodic easing of temperature relief valves is particularly important".
----

Send the stuff back and buy an ATAG 51kW combi you plantpot! An ATAG will
deliver 24 litre/min that is 1,440 litres an hour. Your 150 litre unvented
cylinder will manage about 350 litre/hour. No contest in DHW delivery. And
it is only a box on the wall. Have you priced up a 1,500 litre unvented
cylinder? Have seen the size of one?

You have bought a second rate, old hat, dangerous, system. Listen to the
professionals you sycophant.

"geoff" wrote in message
...

Compound interest on planet drivel

Maxie! Fantastic! Where on stage last night? Did you flop into bed with
your turned down wellies on last night. What a man!

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
They are fairly useless if you want to fill a bath though.

It is for backup and will do a shower.

If you want full backup have two boilers and one being electric and a
backup genny as well. Where do you want to stop?

Not

You must eff off as you are a plantpot.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...

Unvented Cylinder blasts:
http://www.masterplumbers.com/plumbn...1/dec/avon.asp
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/33094_boom28.shtml
http://www2.canada.com/edmonton/edmo...0-5c298527e2d5
http://www.abc15.com/news/local/stor...FSrKb_osA.cspx
http://i43.tinypic.com/2d3s6v.jpg http://i43.tinypic.com/ehg7l0.jpg
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=pu3FwgIHsQA
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=GF_Wrm-Ns0I

All irrelevant.

Please buy and unvented cylinder and blow up. Please do. You need to blow
up. It will do you good.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insertmysurnamehere wrote in message
...
...
Reliability is more about make than type, although a system
(regular-type) boiler is less complex than a combination boiler.

Not much at all. A combi is system boiler with a 3-way valve and
a plate heat exchanger for DHW. 90% is the same.

That is still more complex than a system boiler.

Not much.

The other advantage of a system boiler is that the hot water is
stored in a tank, which can have a backup immersion heater and
that gives you belts and braces cover.

An in-line instant electric heater can be fitted in the combi
outlet. A small box say under the sink.

They are fairly useless if you want to fill a bath though.

It is for backup and will do a shower.

I don't have a shower or a shower attachment.

Some will fill a bath slowly.

I don't want to fill a bath slowly and, with a cylinder backup, I
wouldn't need to.

Get a shower you filthy person.

I have never been taken with showers. It is far nicer to relax in a bath
full of hot water.


If you want full backup have two boilers and one being electric and a
backup genny as well. Where do you want to stop?

An immersion heater in the hot water tank will do me. I said backup,
not paranoia.

Yep a combi and a small inline instant backup electric heater.

No use to me, for the reasons already given

Saves
space,

Not a problem

no annual service charge

So what?

and will not take down the side of your
house.

Nor will a properly maintained unvented cylinder.

You will die.

We are all going to do that.


A poor choice as the unvented cylinder is a potential bomb.

Worse than a couple of air receivers working at 11 bar?

Uh?

It would seem to be a simple enough question. Is an unvented cylinder
at mains pressure a greater danger than two similarly sized air
receivers working at 11 bar?

yes.

So, something that is designed to work at about 6 bar and that normally
contains an incompressible fluid is more dangerous than something
working at nearly twice the pressure and that normally contains highly
compressed gas? You really have no idea what you are talking about.

See my other post with evidence of catastrophic explosions.

None of which appear to have happened in Britain.


Unvented cylinders need an annual service costing £60-£100 a year.

Wow, a whole pound or two a week.

That is £100 in 10 years. £2000 in 20 years. Not economical at all.
Sell it now!!!!

Interesting maths. £100 in 10 years = £2000 in 20 years. In any case,
if that really worried me, I will be saving more than £1000 a year in
road fuel when I downsize to a 2.5 litre diesel Mercedes E Class in
September.

We are on about water heaters not your frigging car you sycophantic
idiot. It will be more like £3-4,000 over 20 years as service prices
rise. Then replacement of expensive pressure valves.They are NOT cheap
at all.

Have you not yet realised that trivial savings are of no interest to me?

You never tried an ATAG

I can't say I have ever rated the Dutch as world leaders in engineering.

They are now in combis. They invented the condensing boiler. A 51kW
ATAG is a class act

And would be massive overkill for me, as I am installing a 15kW unit.

- also has weather compensation as well..

Optional on the Vaillant, but I wouldn't have got my trade discount had
I gone for it.

And beat
any unvented cylinder.

Not in my opinion

You have never heard of one.

So, how did I know they are Dutch?

Floor mounted like the Worcester-Bosch 550 or wall mounted like the
ATAG 51kW. The ATAG is quality. It works out cheaper to fit and
install and saves a hell of a lot of space and no bomb in the house
or need annual service expenses.

You don't have your gas boiler serviced every year, but worry about
the dangers from an unvented cylinder?

I do not have my boiler serviced?

You claim no annual service expenses

No annual service on just have a cylinder of water. You will have to pay
a service on the boiler AND unvented cylinder.

Again, so what?

....
BS6700: 1997 states that with unvented cylinders, the "maintenance and
periodic easing of temperature relief valves is particularly important".

As it is with air receiver safety valves.

----

Send the stuff back and buy an ATAG 51kW combi you plantpot! An ATAG
will deliver 24 litre/min that is 1,440 litres an hour. Your 150 litre
unvented cylinder will manage about 350 litre/hour.

I need 210 litres of water, not all hot, once a day for my bath. I would
have gone for the 125 litre tank, but there was a special offer on the
155 litre one and it was in stock.

No contest in DHW
delivery.

Massive overkill for my needs though.

And it is only a box on the wall. Have you priced up a 1,500
litre unvented cylinder? Have seen the size of one?

No, but I do know what a 155 litre one costs and I have it sitting in a
box awaiting installation.

You have bought a second rate, old hat, dangerous, system.

As I said elsewhere, you are entitled to your opinions, but don't expect
me to share them.

Listen to
the professionals

I did.

you sycophant.

Your repeated use of this word in completely the wrong context can only
lead me to conclude that you have absolutely no idea of what it means.

Colin Bignell