My existing floor standing boiler has now died on me and I have now the
opportunity to buy and install a more efficient boiler. The problem is
that the house (1901 circa) has the original single pipe system (mild
steel pipe work) that is gravity fed and runs throughout the whole
house servicing 20 rads.This in itself seems to be a problem if, as per
building regs I go down the line of purchasing a condensing boiler, as
I believe there are a number of issues.
British Gas have a policy where buy they won't touch the system as far
as the installation of a condensing boiler is concerned and GASFORCE
quoted £10k to install a 65 kw commercial boiler (the new boiler would
be sited about 6ft from the old boiler) which to me seems a rip off.
My preference would be to for a condensing boiler if it can be
installed and provide the efficiency over a non - condensing boiler,
although I have yet to speak to a plumber who
can give consistent advice. Would it be better to go for a high
efficient gas boiler assuming I get an exception cert.

"SMPW" wrote in message
ups.com...

My preference would be...

AFAIK, that is immaterial, you can only fit a condensing type, since the new
regs.

--
Mike W

SMPW wrote:

My existing floor standing boiler has now died on me and I have now the
opportunity to buy and install a more efficient boiler. The problem is
that the house (1901 circa) has the original single pipe system (mild
steel pipe work) that is gravity fed and runs throughout the whole
house servicing 20 rads.This in itself seems to be a problem if, as per
building regs I go down the line of purchasing a condensing boiler, as
I believe there are a number of issues.

I can't think of any additional problems that a boiler being a condensor
will add over and above those you will find with any modern boiler
trying to drive a single pipe system. With a large system you will
probably need to run a high flow and return temperature to get enough
heat out of the last few rads in the system, and this will in turn
reduce the efficency gains you get from a condensing boiler - but it in
itself won't be a show stopper. You would need to choose the boiler with
care if you want to keep it as a vented system since not all modern ones
can drive an open vented system.

British Gas have a policy where buy they won't touch the system as far
as the installation of a condensing boiler is concerned and GASFORCE
quoted £10k to install a 65 kw commercial boiler (the new boiler would
be sited about 6ft from the old boiler) which to me seems a rip off.

'kin ell as they say! Did that include an upgrade to the gas meter etc
to supply that amountof gas? (i.e. just over the official limit for most
domestic meters).

How muc heating capacity do you actually require? Have you done heat
loss calcs for the whole house? (if not, now is the time!)

How difficult would it be to upgrade to a two pipe system? If that
sounds idfficult, what about with microbore?

My preference would be to for a condensing boiler if it can be
installed and provide the efficiency over a non - condensing boiler,
although I have yet to speak to a plumber who
can give consistent advice. Would it be better to go for a high
efficient gas boiler assuming I get an exception cert.

The only difference between a modern condensing boiler and a
conventional one is the use of a larger heat exchanger (or secondary one
if you buy a scabby boiler), and a condensate trap and drain. Both will
otherwise be stuffed full with electonics, fanned flues, and other
stuff. So it is not the same argument as say sticking with an old cast
iron lump because "it is simple, and there is not much to go wrong".

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Have a look at Archie Kidd boilers, simple, old-fashioned, suitable for
open systems, high efficiency and build quality.

So old fashioned they don't do "that internet thing", and not much web
info via other companies:

http://www.hwch.co.uk/kidd.html

Very good postal literature (lots of general guides and independent
revues) and free on-site surveys.

Archie Kidd (Thermal) Ltd,
Poulshot,
Devizes,
Wiltshire,
SN10 1RT

Phone: 01380 828123

SMPW wrote:
My existing floor standing boiler has now died on me and I have now
the opportunity to buy and install a more efficient boiler. The
problem is that the house (1901 circa) has the original single pipe
system (mild steel pipe work) that is gravity fed and runs
throughout the whole house servicing 20 rads.This in itself seems to
be a problem if, as per building regs I go down the line of
purchasing a condensing boiler, as I believe there are a number of
issues.
British Gas have a policy where buy they won't touch the system as far
as the installation of a condensing boiler is concerned and GASFORCE
quoted £10k to install a 65 kw commercial boiler (the new boiler would
be sited about 6ft from the old boiler) which to me seems a rip off.
My preference would be to for a condensing boiler if it can be
installed and provide the efficiency over a non - condensing boiler,
although I have yet to speak to a plumber who
can give consistent advice. Would it be better to go for a high
efficient gas boiler assuming I get an exception cert.

Commercial boilers are very expensive. I would consider using 2 domestic
boilers. I would have a separate pump for each with a non-return valve in
case one of the boilers goes out of action or choose to run just the one.

My existing floor standing boiler has now died on me and I have
now the opportunity to buy and install a more efficient boiler.
The problem is that the house (1901 circa) has the original single
pipe system (mild steel pipe work) that is gravity fed and runs
throughout the whole house servicing 20 rads.

I'm afraid that you may need to bite the bullet and replace your pipework.

This will, though, have the advantage of enabling you to subzone your
heating requirements. You should, at the least, have zones for the bedrooms
and living areas (and preferably the kitchen). This way, you don't need to
heat your bedrooms during the day.

Basically, much better to throw your money at bringing the pipework up to
date than waste it on inefficient old-fashioned expensive commercial
boilers.

Make sure you do it in S-Plan plus, with sufficient sub zones, as stated
above.

Christian.

In message , VisionSet
writes

"SMPW" wrote in message
oups.com...

My preference would be...

AFAIK, that is immaterial, you can only fit a condensing type, since the new
regs.

Not entirely correct, the intention is that most boilers will be
condensing, but there is scope in the regs for exemptions for some
situations
--
Chris French

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:39:05 -0700, SMPW wrote:

My existing floor standing boiler has now died on me and I have now the
opportunity to buy and install a more efficient boiler. The problem is
that the house (1901 circa) has the original single pipe system (mild
steel pipe work) that is gravity fed and runs throughout the whole
house servicing 20 rads.This in itself seems to be a problem if, as per
building regs I go down the line of purchasing a condensing boiler, as
I believe there are a number of issues.
British Gas have a policy where buy they won't touch the system as far
as the installation of a condensing boiler is concerned and GASFORCE
quoted £10k to install a 65 kw commercial boiler (the new boiler would
be sited about 6ft from the old boiler) which to me seems a rip off.
My preference would be to for a condensing boiler if it can be
installed and provide the efficiency over a non - condensing boiler,
although I have yet to speak to a plumber who
can give consistent advice. Would it be better to go for a high
efficient gas boiler assuming I get an exception cert.

See the BoilerChoiceFAQ.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards