Hello

I wonder if someone can help me with a problem. I am currently trying
to organise a replacement condenser or combi boiler for my mother who
lives in a 4 bedroom semi detached property by herself. 8 rads will be
fiited with trc's however we have received conflicting advice based on
which type of boiler and where the condensation pipe will go if indeed
she has a condenser fitted. The long and short of this is that she
currently has a jonhson starley J25-32 ducted air system the boiler is
in the kitchen (ground floor) with a hot water tank in one of the
bedrooms. the initial idea is to fit a combi condenser (baxi 105 31kw
or platinium 33kw) into the airing cupboard where the hopt water tank
used to be however one installed is proposing taking the pipe for the
waste condensed water out of the wall under the bedroom floorboard then
run the pipe about 12 feet along the house horizontally then down to
the drain and the other is just saying a condenser is not suitable and
she will need a combi boiler as you can only fit condensers to an
outside wall. Can anyone advise if they think either of these methods
is unsuitable. Also one of the guys seems trust worthy however his
father is retired (so has no corgi reg anymore) he is starting and
waiting to complete the course so they have advised currently they are
having a colleague (who I have confirmed with corgi is registered with
them) to inspect install and pass for safety.

Any help greatly appreciated

Thanks

Neil

wrote:
she will need a combi boiler as you can only fit condensers to an
outside wall.

Twaddle. Mine is (legally) attached to an inside wall

David

In article , Lobster davidlob
writes
wrote:
she will need a combi boiler as you can only fit condensers to an
outside wall.

Twaddle. Mine is (legally) attached to an inside wall


Pants indeed, the dribble of condensate can happily be piped away from
the middle of the house to a suitable drain. Not sure whether 20mm plastic
is suitable for the whole run, I think it may need to be 32mm for a long run
with a short fall. There are many condensers designed to be used in
apartments with ducted flues running in the centre of buildings.

I think a lot of old school installers are in a bit of a huff with condensers
("we haven't needed to do it this way before") and haven't bothered to get
up to speed on the capabilities of these new fangled contraptions.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

On 5 Nov 2005 10:52:19 -0800, "
wrote:

Hello

I wonder if someone can help me with a problem. I am currently trying
to organise a replacement condenser or combi boiler for my mother who
lives in a 4 bedroom semi detached property by herself. 8 rads will be
fiited with trc's however we have received conflicting advice based on
which type of boiler and where the condensation pipe will go if indeed
she has a condenser fitted. The long and short of this is that she
currently has a jonhson starley J25-32 ducted air system the boiler is
in the kitchen (ground floor) with a hot water tank in one of the
bedrooms. the initial idea is to fit a combi condenser (baxi 105 31kw
or platinium 33kw) into the airing cupboard where the hopt water tank
used to be however one installed is proposing taking the pipe for the
waste condensed water out of the wall under the bedroom floorboard then
run the pipe about 12 feet along the house horizontally then down to
the drain and the other is just saying a condenser is not suitable and
she will need a combi boiler as you can only fit condensers to an
outside wall. Can anyone advise if they think either of these methods
is unsuitable. Also one of the guys seems trust worthy however his
father is retired (so has no corgi reg anymore) he is starting and
waiting to complete the course so they have advised currently they are
having a colleague (who I have confirmed with corgi is registered with
them) to inspect install and pass for safety.

Any help greatly appreciated

Thanks

Neil


The first thing is not to confuse the terms "combi" and condensing
boilers. A combi boiler is one which has the ability to heat water
from the mains directly without the use of a cylinder. A condensing
boiler is one which has internals and a control system designed such
that there is condensing of some of the combustion products to water
inside the boiler. This causes release of additional (latent) heat
and results in greater efficiency. Said water has to be piped away.

You can have condensing and non-condensing versions of combi boilers
and condensing and non-condensing versions of heating boilers (i.e.
those that work with a HW cylinder etc)

So there are two decisions to make. The first is whether she wants a
combi boiler and to remove having the boiler in the kitchen and
cylinder in the bedroom. Bear in mind that the water flow rate from
a combi is unlikely to be as great as is currently being achieved from
a cylinder and baths etc. will take longer to fill, especially in the
winter. The boiler size is upper mid range and would work
reasonably well, especially for a person on their own who may not be
too concerned if it takes 10-15mins to fill a bath. However, if it
is on the radar to move within the lifetime of the boiler and the
house is such that a bath and shower in concurrent use is possible,
then this may be a consideration and a combi of this size could be
marginal for that. One thing that should be checked for a combi
implementation is the mains cold water flow rate. This can be done
at the kitchen sink with a bucket, a stop watch and a calculator.
One thing that is common in houses with a roof tank and cylinder is
that only a 15mm pipe is used from the stop tap to the roof tank. If
this is the case, then it may need to be replaced with a 22mm pipe.

On the condensing/non-condensing question, it is certainly not the
case that they can only be fitted to an outside wall. manufacturers
have gone to a great deal of trouble to provide solutions to address
fitting in other places.

For example:

- For many models, flues can be concentric pipes or separate intake
and outlet types. With some, flues can even be constructed with 50mm
high temperature waste pipe and run over tens of metres.

- Condensate production is usually no more than a trickle and can be
run through plastic pipe. The distances mentioned are relatively
long, so the important thing would be to make sure that there is some
slope, especially more so outside, to prevent water laying and
freezing.

- There are condensate pumps. These are used normally when a boiler
is installed where the drain is higher - e.g. in a cellar - to raise
the water to an outside drain level. However, another option could
be to run the condensate pipework across the loft and join a soil
stack. Pumps cost a few tens of pounds and perhaps this could provide
a neater solution?


The second installer may be a bit of a Luddite or may simply be trying
to suggest a lower cost option, or may simply have no experience of
condensing boilers. This is ridiculous really, because there is
only the issue of the condensate drain that makes the difference
anyway. There is a medium to long term cost saving with a condensing
boiler in terms of running costs and a reasonable assumption that gas
prices will increase.

You can refer to the exemption rules at the ODPM web site, where there
are details of an assessment procedure.

This leaflet is useful as a guide to that plus some installation
suggestions.

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/embedded_object.asp?id=1130731


It may be that the criteria for not having to have a condensing boiler
could be met if she wanted to go that way.

Semidetached house 590 points
New boiler in different room 350 points
Extended flue 2m 200 points

Total is 1140 (greater than 1000 limit) just with these things, so she
doesn't *have* to have a condensing model if she didn't want to do so
(assuming new flue is 2m).




--

..andy

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On 5 Nov 2005 10:52:19 -0800, "
wrote:

Hello

I wonder if someone can help me with a problem. I am currently trying
to organise a replacement condenser or combi boiler for my mother who
lives in a 4 bedroom semi detached property by herself. 8 rads will be
fiited with trc's however we have received conflicting advice based on
which type of boiler and where the condensation pipe will go if indeed
she has a condenser fitted. The long and short of this is that she
currently has a jonhson starley J25-32 ducted air system the boiler is
in the kitchen (ground floor) with a hot water tank in one of the
bedrooms. the initial idea is to fit a combi condenser (baxi 105 31kw
or platinium 33kw) into the airing cupboard where the hopt water tank
used to be however one installed is proposing taking the pipe for the
waste condensed water out of the wall under the bedroom floorboard then
run the pipe about 12 feet along the house horizontally then down to
the drain and the other is just saying a condenser is not suitable and
she will need a combi boiler as you can only fit condensers to an
outside wall. Can anyone advise if they think either of these methods
is unsuitable. Also one of the guys seems trust worthy however his
father is retired (so has no corgi reg anymore) he is starting and
waiting to complete the course so they have advised currently they are
having a colleague (who I have confirmed with corgi is registered with
them) to inspect install and pass for safety.

Any help greatly appreciated

Thanks

Neil


The first thing is not to confuse the terms "combi" and condensing
boilers. A combi boiler is one which has the ability to heat water
from the mains directly without the use of a cylinder. A condensing
boiler is one which has internals and a control system designed such
that there is condensing of some of the combustion products to water
inside the boiler. This causes release of additional (latent) heat
and results in greater efficiency. Said water has to be piped away.

You can have condensing and non-condensing versions of combi boilers
and condensing and non-condensing versions of heating boilers (i.e.
those that work with a HW cylinder etc)

So there are two decisions to make. The first is whether she wants a
combi boiler and to remove having the boiler in the kitchen and
cylinder in the bedroom. Bear in mind that the water flow rate from
a combi is unlikely to be as great as is currently being achieved from
a cylinder and baths etc. will take longer to fill, especially in the
winter.

Tripe! high flow combis are available equalling any cylinder setup.

The boiler size is upper mid range and would work
reasonably well, especially for a person on their own who may not be
too concerned if it takes 10-15mins to fill a bath. However, if it
is on the radar to move within the lifetime of the boiler and the
house is such that a bath and shower in concurrent use is possible,
then this may be a consideration and a combi of this size could be
marginal for that. One thing that should be checked for a combi
implementation is the mains cold water flow rate. This can be done
at the kitchen sink with a bucket, a stop watch and a calculator.
One thing that is common in houses with a roof tank and cylinder is
that only a 15mm pipe is used from the stop tap to the roof tank. If
this is the case, then it may need to be replaced with a 22mm pipe.

On the condensing/non-condensing question, it is certainly not the
case that they can only be fitted to an outside wall. manufacturers
have gone to a great deal of trouble to provide solutions to address
fitting in other places.

For example:

- For many models, flues can be concentric pipes or separate intake
and outlet types. With some, flues can even be constructed with 50mm
high temperature waste pipe and run over tens of metres.

- Condensate production is usually no more than a trickle and can be
run through plastic pipe. The distances mentioned are relatively
long, so the important thing would be to make sure that there is some
slope, especially more so outside, to prevent water laying and
freezing.

- There are condensate pumps. These are used normally when a boiler
is installed where the drain is higher - e.g. in a cellar - to raise
the water to an outside drain level. However, another option could
be to run the condensate pipework across the loft and join a soil
stack. Pumps cost a few tens of pounds and perhaps this could provide
a neater solution?


The second installer may be a bit of a Luddite or may simply be trying
to suggest a lower cost option, or may simply have no experience of
condensing boilers. This is ridiculous really, because there is
only the issue of the condensate drain that makes the difference
anyway. There is a medium to long term cost saving with a condensing
boiler in terms of running costs and a reasonable assumption that gas
prices will increase.

You can refer to the exemption rules at the ODPM web site, where there
are details of an assessment procedure.

This leaflet is useful as a guide to that plus some installation
suggestions.

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/embedded_object.asp?id=1130731


It may be that the criteria for not having to have a condensing boiler
could be met if she wanted to go that way.

Semidetached house 590 points
New boiler in different room 350 points
Extended flue 2m 200 points

Total is 1140 (greater than 1000 limit) just with these things, so she
doesn't *have* to have a condensing model if she didn't want to do so
(assuming new flue is 2m).




--

.andy

thanks for this , what's a stack by the way? can you also tell me how
to do the water flow calculation

On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 12:18:50 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
.. .
On 5 Nov 2005 10:52:19 -0800, "
wrote:


bedrooms. the initial idea is to fit a combi condenser (baxi 105 31kw
or platinium 33kw) into the airing cupboard where the hopt water tank

So there are two decisions to make. The first is whether she wants a
combi boiler and to remove having the boiler in the kitchen and
cylinder in the bedroom. Bear in mind that the water flow rate from
a combi is unlikely to be as great as is currently being achieved from
a cylinder and baths etc. will take longer to fill, especially in the
winter.

Tripe! high flow combis are available equalling any cylinder setup.

Read the whole thread and the context. The products under discussion
are not "high flow". They are in the average range. The 33kW one
does the predictable 13 litres per minute. This may be fine for the
user or it may not, but it is sensible to take all of the potential
issues into account.



--

..andy

On 6 Nov 2005 04:32:50 -0800, "
wrote:

thanks for this , what's a stack by the way? can you also tell me how
to do the water flow calculation

You're welcome, Neil.


The stack means the soil stack, although obviously you need to look at
the design rules in the PDF file. If this is on the inside of the
house, it may be worth considering, otherwise probably not. I was
simply thinking that generally getting things through a loft space is
a lot easier than under floors, and could be a way to avoid having 4m
of waste pipe on the outside of the house. Obviously it depends on
the arrangement of the house etc.

To calculate the flow, take a container (e.g. bucket) of known
capacity. (e.g. 5 litres). Using the watch, time how long it takes
to fill from the sink cold tap.

Example: If it takes 15 seconds to fill a 5 litre bucket, then that
would be 4 times a minute and the flow rate is 20 litres per minute.

You could do this using a 2 litre measuring jug, but it's not as
accurate as a larger container because of the difficulty in accurately
checking the watch.

It's worth repeating the test a couple of times and averaging the
readings.

Note also that it will vary somewhat during the day.

The water suppliers are only legally required to deliver 9 litres per
minute, and obviously this could be disappointing in comparison with
the existing system.

Generally as long as there is about 20 litres/min or more, then
results are reasonable.

Keep in mind that the quoted combi flow rates are for a 35 degree rise
in temperature, so in effect in the winter this will be the total hot
flow rate for bath/shower temperature (when mains cold is in the
typical 5-8 degree range).

If you want to be scientific, you could measure the current flow rate
into the bath and also time how long it fills to normally used depth.
Then you can calculate how long it would take with the flow (possibly)
limited to what the mains can do, or what the combi can do.

If mains flow rate turned out to be an issue, then options are to get
the pipe from the street upgraded (could be expensive), or stick with
roof tank and use that to supply the combi.

If the combi is felt to be inadequate but the idea of a box in the
airing cupboard appeals, then there are larger combis than 33kW and
also appliances which store some amount of hot water within the boiler
itself (Powermax is an example of this and there are a number of
others). Look for "Combined Primary Storage Unit".

Don't be concerned if the appliance rating appears to become large in
relation to the heating needs of the house. In heating mode, the
boiler will reduce (modulate) its output down. The full power is
required for water heating, and for basic combis which don't store
water, the HW production rate is directly proportional to the
appliance rating.



It may well be that the type/range of combi is entirely suitable -
probably is for a single person who is not time constrained. However,
the whole project is a substantial investment, so an hour spent doing
the homework and checking does make good sense.




--

..andy

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 12:18:50 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
.. .
On 5 Nov 2005 10:52:19 -0800, "
wrote:


bedrooms. the initial idea is to fit a combi condenser (baxi 105 31kw
or platinium 33kw) into the airing cupboard where the hopt water tank

So there are two decisions to make. The first is whether she wants a
combi boiler and to remove having the boiler in the kitchen and
cylinder in the bedroom. Bear in mind that the water flow rate from
a combi is unlikely to be as great as is currently being achieved from
a cylinder and baths etc. will take longer to fill, especially in the
winter.

Tripe! high flow combis are available equalling any cylinder setup.

Read the whole thread and the context. The products under discussion
are not "high flow". They are in the average range. The 33kW one
does the predictable 13 litres per minute. This may be fine for the
user or it may not, but it is sensible to take all of the potential
issues into account.

You said "baths etc. will take longer to fill". Which is tripe. High flow
models are zippo. You are spreading amateur myths.

On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 14:05:34 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 12:18:50 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
.. .
On 5 Nov 2005 10:52:19 -0800, "
wrote:


bedrooms. the initial idea is to fit a combi condenser (baxi 105 31kw
or platinium 33kw) into the airing cupboard where the hopt water tank

So there are two decisions to make. The first is whether she wants a
combi boiler and to remove having the boiler in the kitchen and
cylinder in the bedroom. Bear in mind that the water flow rate from
a combi is unlikely to be as great as is currently being achieved from
a cylinder and baths etc. will take longer to fill, especially in the
winter.

Tripe! high flow combis are available equalling any cylinder setup.

Read the whole thread and the context. The products under discussion
are not "high flow". They are in the average range. The 33kW one
does the predictable 13 litres per minute. This may be fine for the
user or it may not, but it is sensible to take all of the potential
issues into account.

You said "baths etc. will take longer to fill". Which is tripe. High flow
models are zippo. You are spreading amateur myths.

I'm sure that everybody else, including the OP understood the point,
but since you seem to want to be obtuse, let me spell it out for you:

- A 33kW combi of the type under discussion will deliver 13 litres per
minute of hot water with a temperature rise of 35 degrees.

- The temperature of the cold mains in the winter can be in the region
of 5 to 8 degrees

- Since usable shower/bath temperature is in the 40 to 45 degree
range, it follows that the filling rate, for this type of boiler, at
this rating will be 13 litres per minute.

- An existing storage system holds water at 60 degrees. It is mixed,
when running the bath, with cold water from the storage tank or the
mains to produce water at the required temperature.

- Each of the cold and hot flows of the storage system are likely to
be at least at 13 litres per minute if they are piped using 22mm pipe
(the standard). 20 litres/min is quite typical, and I suggested to
the OP that he might like to measure it if this might be an issue for
the user.

- In any event, it is highly likely that the boiler type under
consideration will fill the bath more slowly than the existing system.
Whether that is an issue for the user can then be determined.

- Therefore my comments, in the context of the appliances being
considered were entirely correct.

- I am fully aware that there are higher capacity instantaneous combi
boilers available. However, within the realms of available gas supply
in a domestic installation, once other requirements such as cooking
and other appliances are considered, it likely that the limit for a
boiler will be in the 40-45kW range. It is not a coincidence that
this is the largest model size of this type of product for the UK
market from the larger vendors. Predictably, these will produce
around 16 litres per minute.

- Beyond that, as I also mentioned, to achieve a greater HW
production rate than achievable instantaneously, some form of energy
storage is needed. This can be done externally to the boiler, viz. a
conventional cylinder, heat bank or thermal store; or within the
appliance as some form of CPSU. The performance of these depends on
the amount of water stored and at what temperature.





--

..andy

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 14:05:34 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 12:18:50 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
.. .
On 5 Nov 2005 10:52:19 -0800, "
wrote:


bedrooms. the initial idea is to fit a combi condenser (baxi 105
31kw
or platinium 33kw) into the airing cupboard where the hopt water
tank

So there are two decisions to make. The first is whether she wants
a
combi boiler and to remove having the boiler in the kitchen and
cylinder in the bedroom. Bear in mind that the water flow rate
from
a combi is unlikely to be as great as is currently being achieved
from
a cylinder and baths etc. will take longer to fill, especially in
the
winter.

Tripe! high flow combis are available equalling any cylinder setup.

Read the whole thread and the context. The products under discussion
are not "high flow". They are in the average range. The 33kW one
does the predictable 13 litres per minute. This may be fine for the
user or it may not, but it is sensible to take all of the potential
issues into account.

You said "baths etc. will take longer to fill". Which is tripe. High
flow
models are zippo. You are spreading amateur myths.

I'm sure that everybody else,
including the OP understood the point,

Matt, the point you made was clear and incorrect: "baths etc. will take
longer to fill". Which is tripe.

but since you seem to want to be obtuse,

Matt? Obtuse? I said: "high flow combis are available equalling any
cylinder setup" Wow that is obtuse.

let me spell it out for you:

Matt, please don't you haven't a clue that is clear

snip meandering babble

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
You said "baths etc. will take longer to fill". Which is tripe. High
flow models are zippo. You are spreading amateur myths.

I'm sure that everybody else, including the OP understood the point,
but since you seem to want to be obtuse, let me spell it out for you:

Don't know why you bother, Andy.

The cretin just doesn't understand figures.

My bath fills at approx 40 lpm (hot and cold together) to a piping hot
temperature - regardless of the state of the incoming mains water - from
my storage system.

There ain't a domestic combi that can match that.

--
*Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
Andy Hall aka Matt wrote:

You said "baths etc. will take longer to fill". Which is tripe. High
flow models are zippo. You are spreading amateur myths.

I'm sure that everybody else, including the OP understood the point,
but since you seem to want to be obtuse, let me spell it out for you:

Don't know why you bother, Andy.

Mr Cranium, if matt wants to bother he can.

My bath fills at approx 40 lpm (hot and
cold together)

So 20 litres/min on hot water, the same as many combis. And no high
pressure showers, and tanks and cylidners all over the place with a combi.

There ain't a domestic combi that can match that.

Many are way above 20 litres/min. The Gledhill Gulfsteam floor mounted combi
delivers 45 litres/min of "hot" water. The MAN Micromat 76kW can deliver
over 30 litres/min - for ever. The ACV Heatmaster pours out the hot water
flowrate.

cut Mr Cranium senility

On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 18:00:12 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)"


My bath fills at approx 40 lpm (hot and
cold together)

So 20 litres/min on hot water, the same as many combis.

20lpm of hot at 60 degrees plus 20lpm at mains temperature is not the
same as 20lpm at 40-45 degrees.


There ain't a domestic combi that can match that.

Many are way above 20 litres/min. The Gledhill Gulfsteam floor mounted combi
delivers 45 litres/min of "hot" water.

This a CPSU and has storage.

The MAN Micromat 76kW can deliver
over 30 litres/min - for ever.

Requiring more than a standard domestic gas supply can deliver.

The ACV Heatmaster pours out the hot water
flowrate.

This is also a storage device.


If you are going to make arguments in the direction of these kinds of
appliance, at least do so honestly with all of the factors involved
taken into account, and not just the ones that suit you.



--

..andy

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
My bath fills at approx 40 lpm (hot and
cold together)

So 20 litres/min on hot water, the same as many combis.

Sigh. 20 lpm at 60C, cretin.

--
*Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

My bath fills at approx 40 lpm (hot and
cold together)

So 20 litres/min on hot water, the same as many combis.

Sigh. 20 lpm at 60C,

Oh senile one, still way below the 45 litres/min the Gledhill can pour out.

"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 18:00:12 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message:

My bath fills at approx 40 lpm (hot and
cold together)

So 20 litres/min on hot water, the same as many combis.

20lpm of hot at 60 degrees plus
20lpm at mains temperature is not the
same as 20lpm at 40-45 degrees.

Matt, still way below the 45 l/min the Gledhill can pour out.

There ain't a domestic combi that can match that.

Many are way above 20 litres/min. The Gledhill
Gulfsteam floor mounted combi
delivers 45 litres/min of "hot" water.

This a CPSU and has storage.

Matt, It is a combi, see sedbuk. It is a one-box solution.

The MAN Micromat 76kW can deliver
over 30 litres/min - for ever.

Requiring more than a standard domestic gas supply can deliver.

Not an issue, Matt.

The ACV Heatmaster pours out the hot water
flowrate.

This is also a storage device.

Matt, it is a combi, a on-box solution.

If you are going to make arguments in the direction of these kinds of
appliance, at least do so honestly with all of the factors involved
taken into account, and not just the ones that suit you.

Matt, these are high performance models. The ones which don't exist and
can't pour out the flowrates according to the amateurs on this ng.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
So 20 litres/min on hot water, the same as many combis.

Sigh. 20 lpm at 60C,

Oh senile one, still way below the 45 litres/min the Gledhill can pour
out.

With upgraded water and gas mains supplies. Do you have any idea about
value for money, cretin?

Oh - and you're saying it will provide 45 lpm at 60C?

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through ahaze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
So 20 litres/min on hot water, the same as many combis.

Sigh. 20 lpm at 60C,

Oh senile one, still way below the 45 litres/min the Gledhill can pour
out.

With upgraded water and gas mains supplies.

No gas upgrade and many supplies can deliver 45 litres/min.

snip senility

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
So 20 litres/min on hot water, the same as many combis.

Sigh. 20 lpm at 60C,

Oh senile one, still way below the 45 litres/min the Gledhill can
pour out.

With upgraded water and gas mains supplies.

No gas upgrade and many supplies can deliver 45 litres/min.

Many, eh? Please quote the minimum spec for a mains water supply. Cretin.

--
*If a turtle doesn't have a shell, is he homeless or naked?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
So 20 litres/min on hot water, the same as many combis.

Sigh. 20 lpm at 60C,

Oh senile one, still way below the 45 litres/min the Gledhill can
pour out.

With upgraded water and gas mains supplies.

No gas upgrade and many supplies can deliver 45 litres/min.

Many, eh? Please quote the minimum spec for a mains water supply.

What a senile response. Many supplies can deliver 45 litres/min. This is
obviously difficult for your senility to comprehend.

snip senility

Contact the manufacturer with your design plans.....They will assist you greatly IF YOU CAN GET THROUGH THE ANNOYING PHONE QUE SETUP....Corgi is a goverment run group that issues the licence to work in the case of gas engineers...Corgi means nothing to most descent gas engineers.....to become corgi reg require a payment of cash each year.....they do however, sort of police the gas industry to some degree but that usually does not help you as a one time customer...they look for the bigger picture and and try to gather info on cowboy gas men...this could take years...basically...so what if he is corgi reg.....what is his qualifications..CITY AND GUILDS etc???? Is he qualified as on the back of the corgi card to work on the full range of gas appliances or has his ACS cert ran out..

Recommend reputable gas comany with good after sales service....
Condensers do cause alot of problems so like buying a car id recommend you do your homework

In article ,
gastec wrote:
Corgi is a goverment run group

Well, that's a new one...

--
*Sleep with a photographer and watch things develop

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Many, eh? Please quote the minimum spec for a mains water supply.

What a senile response. Many supplies can deliver 45 litres/min. This is
obviously difficult for your senility to comprehend.

Anyone reading this get 45 lpm from their mains supply?

--
*Gaffer tape - The Force, light and dark sides - holds the universe together*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Many, eh? Please quote the minimum spec for a mains water supply.

What a senile response. Many supplies can deliver 45 litres/min. This is
obviously difficult for your senility to comprehend.

Anyone reading this get 45 lpm from their mains supply?


30 on a good day

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Many, eh? Please quote the minimum spec for a mains water supply.

What a senile response. Many supplies can deliver 45 litres/min. This
is
obviously difficult for your senility to comprehend.

Anyone reading this get 45 lpm from their mains supply?

Mine is 55 l/min

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Anyone reading this get 45 lpm from their mains supply?

Mine is 55 l/min

Yes, pet. Is this because of the magnetic conditioner?

--
*If your feet smell and your nose runs, you're built upside down.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:53:30 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Anyone reading this get 45 lpm from their mains supply?

Mine is 55 l/min

Yes, pet. Is this because of the magnetic conditioner?

Of course it is. You have been told this before, yet you continue to
deny the Truth!

You are the sort of person that denies that go-faster stripes on a car
give an extra 30mph and save another 10mpg! Sheesh.

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Anyone reading this get 45 lpm from their mains supply?

Mine is 55 l/min

Yes, pet.

...this senile man he calls me pet
...of inverted gender he must be set
...he gives us info we don't need to know
...down our throats he rams it so

...instictively you will spy
...in newsgroups with DIY
...attempting wisdom this fool will try

...the info's so poor tis clearly true
...so how does this garbage affect you?

...well take no heed of babble and drool
...as this one is a confirmed fool

...he marches around in CAT boots of yellow
...this strange brain damaged sort of fellow

...misadvice he has lots to say
...so don't give this yellow booted half-wit the time of day

"EricP" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:53:30 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
through a haze of senile flatulence wrote:

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Anyone reading this get 45 lpm from their mains supply?

Mine is 55 l/min

Yes, pet. Is this because of the magnetic conditioner?

Of course it is. You have been told this before, yet you continue to
deny the Truth!

You are the sort of person that denies that go-faster stripes on a car
give an extra 30mph and save another 10mpg! Sheesh.

..,.and electric cabers make the world go faster.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Anyone reading this get 45 lpm from their mains supply?

Mine is 55 l/min

Yes, pet.

..this

[snipped for the benefit of anyone who appreciates verse]

--
*I believe five out of four people have trouble with fractions. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Doctor Drivel" wittered and whined :


"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...

Anyone reading this get 45 lpm from their mains supply?

Mine is 55 l/min

Dribble that's the fire hose feed you fool.


--

"Matt" aka Lord Hall wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wittered and whined :


"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...

Anyone reading this get 45 lpm from their mains supply?

Mine is 55 l/min

Matt, mine is 55 l/min. How is your cold water storage tank?

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Anyone reading this get 45 lpm from their mains supply?

Mine is 55 l/min

Yes, pet.

...this senile man he calls me pet
...of inverted gender he must be set
...he gives us info we don't need to know
...down our throats he rams it so

...instictively you will spy
...in newsgroups with DIY
...attempting wisdom this fool will try

...the info's so poor tis clearly true
...so how does this garbage affect you?

...well take no heed of babble and drool
...as this one is a confirmed fool

...he marches around in CAT boots of yellow
...this strange brain damaged sort of fellow

...misadvice he has lots to say
...so don't give this yellow booted half-wit the time of day

The message
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

Anyone reading this get 45 lpm from their mains supply?

Mine is 55 l/min

Would that be 55 lies a minute, a bit much even for an habitual liar
like Drivel.

FWIW I get about 6 gallons a minute. (55 litres is 12 gallons).

--
Roger Chapman

In message , Matt
writes
"Doctor Drivel" wittered and whined :


"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...

Anyone reading this get 45 lpm from their mains supply?

Mine is 55 l/min

Dribble that's the fire hose feed you fool.

I thought it was his rate of ****

--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Matt
writes
"Doctor Drivel" wittered and whined :


"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...

Anyone reading this get 45 lpm from their mains supply?

Mine is 55 l/min

Dribble that's the fire hose feed you fool.

I thought it was his rate of ****

...Maxie talks of having a wee
...a pee he likes to spy
...he likes to pee right up the wall, right up to the sky
...a champion of peeing Maxie is, with trophies he is proud
...champion peeing is his game, and this shouts aloud.

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

Anyone reading this get 45 lpm from their mains supply?

Mine is 55 l/min

Would that be 55 lies a minute,

Roger, have you been seen to lately?

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:26:28 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Many, eh? Please quote the minimum spec for a mains water supply.

What a senile response. Many supplies can deliver 45 litres/min. This
is
obviously difficult for your senility to comprehend.

Anyone reading this get 45 lpm from their mains supply?

Mine is 55 l/min



Yeah. Right.


--

..andy