Okay, here's the story. I am now considering a property in
Lincolnshire. This is a very, very old cottage, at least 150 years, I
reckon. The setting is isolated and idyllic. But I made some enquiries
from the agent, who told me that the building had been underpinned at
the rear some years ago. I have not yet visited the property.

Some questions:

Buildings of that era had no foundations, true?

Does underpinning cure, or postpone, a problem?

What is the cost of errecting a new traditionally built bog-standard
detached house with two to three bedrooms? I'm talking ball-park here.
Absolutely bog-standard, but well constructed, with cavity walls,
solid internal walls, at least downstairs, lots of insulation, quality
windows and doors, floorboards instead of chipboard. In effect, what
would the building cost be for a slighlty better than "council house"
design? £60,000? £80,000? This has to be for the finished habitable,
product.

If house has stood anyway for 150 years, it's likely to remain for a
good few years yet, true?

MM

Buildings of that era had no foundations, true?

Does underpinning cure, or postpone, a problem?

Personally, I wouldn't worry about underpinning, provided it was done by a
reputable company with guarantees. This is provided the reason for it is
known. For example, upgrading missing foundations is a good reason. It
slipping halfway into a mine shaft is a bad reason.

However, I would definitely ensure that there would be no problems with
insurance if I purchased it, and would want a lower valuation to cover my
problems selling the property on as some people are rabidly against any
underpinning. I would certainly get a full structural survey.

Christian.

"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
...
Okay, here's the story. I am now considering a property in
Lincolnshire. This is a very, very old cottage, at least 150 years, I
reckon. The setting is isolated and idyllic. But I made some enquiries
from the agent, who told me that the building had been underpinned at
the rear some years ago. I have not yet visited the property.

Some questions:

Buildings of that era had no foundations, true?

Our house has no foundations - brick built interwar semi. It, to date,
hasn't needed underpinning. I'm a little concerned that several neighbours
are having vertical extensions built.


If house has stood anyway for 150 years, it's likely to remain for a
good few years yet, true?

I'd have thought so - but I don't call 150 years "very, very old"! Reminds
me of when I first went to america and was proudly shown "the oldest house
on the island" - it was 90 yo.

Mary

MM

"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
...

Okay, here's the story. I am now considering a property in
Lincolnshire. This is a very, very old cottage, at least 150 years, I
reckon. The setting is isolated and idyllic. But I made some enquiries
from the agent, who told me that the building had been underpinned at
the rear some years ago. I have not yet visited the property.

Some questions:

Buildings of that era had no foundations, true?

Some did, but shallow.

Does underpinning cure, or postpone, a problem?

Mostly it cures it if done properly.

What is the cost of errecting a new traditionally
built bog-standard detached house with two
to three bedrooms? I'm talking ball-park here.
Absolutely bog-standard, but well constructed,
with cavity walls, solid internal walls, at least
downstairs, lots of insulation, quality
windows and doors, floorboards instead of chipboard.
In effect, what would the building cost be for
a slighlty better than "council house"
design? £60,000? £80,000? This has to be for
the finished habitable, product.

Go timber framed with external clad brick. Having solid blocks and bricks
and high insulation is very expensive and entails very thick walls. Give
the house an eco tag and the planners will be more favourable....see below
for the a guide in building a house

If house has stood anyway for 150 years,
it's likely to remain for a
good few years yet, true?

No. The longer it is there the closer it is to falling down.

A house to the specs bleow can be built for approx 80-100K depending on what
input you give yourself.

The Building Structu

- A light framed superinsulated structure (Minimum of 400mm of Warmcell
spay-in cellulous insulation in the roof, 250-300mm in the walls, heavy foam
in the floor if a concrete slab). Have Warmcell in internal walls so as to
give sound insulation - it is v. good at this.
- Face the house south to capture passive solar energy.
- Calculate the pitch of the roof for maximum insulation at your latitude.
- Calculate the roof overhangs to keep the sun off the windows and walls in
summer.
- Have the north side with few windows.
- Triple glazed with low "e" glass.
- Eliminate thermal bridges. These tend to be where the walls meet the
ground and the roof, or one material meets another. Use nylon tie bars if
cladding in brick
- Use SIP panels or TJI "I" beams. The void in the "I" beams can be filled
with Warmcell cellulous insulation (re-cycled newspaper). The Warmcell makes
the structure air-tight.
- Have all of the south facing roof being a solar panel heating water from
the sun. That is a large surface generating much heat.
- Could have a full width conservatory on the south side. Better if full
width and full height. This will help but not essential. Nice to have
though as bedrooms could have a balcony opening into the conservatory and
you can have coffee on the balcony in January.
- No letterbox in front door. All doors heavily insulated and sealed (the
Swedes do the best doors).
- Have a study for home working.

Heating, Vent, Thermal Storage:

- Store the heat in a large thermal store, which would have to be sized to
suit. Better have a battery of small cylinders, so if one leaks it is an
easy and cheap job of replacing.
- The heavy thermal stores can be at ground level. They could even be in a
separate building with superinsulted underground pipes between it and the
house if need be. The thermal store should hold enough energy to heat the
building over 3 or 4 cloudy days.
- Use "very" low temperature underfloor heating, which means lots of
underfloor pipes.
- In winter not a lot of very hot water will be generated, but hot enough
for very low temp underfloor heating.
- This low temperature water can act as a preheat for DHW.
- If hot water is generated, hot enough for domestic hot water, then this
water should be suitably stored for ready use rather than merging into a
large low temperature water store.
- The controls will be off the shelf and all be using the odd pump here and
there.
- A backup heat source can be incorporated when cloudy days extend over 3 or
4 days.
- The water system is understandable by any intelligent plumber.
- As underfloor heating is being used, best have an extract only vent
system. Heat recovery is expensive. The thermal store should store enough
energy for the heating system to compensate for vent losses.

Water Reclamation:

- There are large water tanks that fill from the roof available ready made.
The BENELUX countries have these as standard in new builds.
- The water tank is under the garden.
- The water is used to water the garden and flush toilets, reducing water
consumption drastically.

PV Cell:

- Don't bother as they are still super expensive with very long payback
times. If the house done as above then little electricity will be used.

Low Energy Appliance:

- These tend to be German like AEG, etc. Find out which of these is the
most economical in energy and water consumption and put these in the spec.

Comms:

- Wire the place out in CAT 5 to accommodate computers and home working.

The above is the basic concept. Then, depending on site, size of house, etc,
it is a matter of applying numbers to size up the thermals store, heat loss,
How much energy the solar roof will generate, sizing a "very" low temp
underfloor heating system, etc.

Look at this book:
Building with Strucutural Insulated Panels (SIPs): Strength and Energy
Efficiency Through Structural Panel Construction
By Michael Morley
ISBN: 1561583510

Synopsis
Structural insulated panels are sandwiches of foam insulation between two
sheets of fibreboard or plywood, and are used to build walls, roofs and
floors in all kinds of modern buildings: instead of three components - a
frame, insulation and sheathing - SIP panels are all three things and come
ready to install. SIP- constructed buildings are vastly more efficient,
quicker to build, stronger, quieter and more draught-free than older
post-war building systems. Taps into a huge and growing self-build market
which is generally only served by technical books.; Tips and information on
this highly efficient building material from an expert builder who
specialises in structural insulated panel construction. Packed with 180
colour photographs and 40 drawings.; Takes the reader through the entire
process of building a panel-constructed house, from planning and estimating,
ordering, storage and handling to construction.

Some SIP companies:
http://www.bpac.co.uk
http://www.sipltd.com
http://www.vencel.co.uk
http://www.tekhaus.kingspan.com
http://www.opstalan.nl
http://www.redex.nl
http://www.isobouw.nl
http://www.vencel.co.uk

Look at "I" beams:
http://www.masonite-beams.se

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Mike Mitchell wrote:


Some questions:

Buildings of that era had no foundations, true?

Often true.


Does underpinning cure, or postpone, a problem?

If done properly, it cures it.


What is the cost of errecting a new traditionally built bog-standard
detached house with two to three bedrooms?

No idea!


If house has stood anyway for 150 years, it's likely to remain for a
good few years yet, true?


Depends where it is. Many older houses near main roads are now suffering
from vibrations caused by increasingly heavy lorries going past. If it isn't
on a lorry route it's got a better chance of surviving.

--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

In effect, what would the building cost be for a slighlty better than
"council house" design? £60,000? £80,000? This has to be for the finished
habitable, product.

I'd guess more around the 100K mark, depending on spec and area etc.

Christian.

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:20:53 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
.. .


If house has stood anyway for 150 years,
it's likely to remain for a
good few years yet, true?

No. The longer it is there the closer it is to falling down.

What a nonsense statement.

It would apply to anything constructed, and a solid masonry structure
that has already stood solidly for 150 years is far more likely to
last for another 150 than one of your SIP panel disposable prefabs.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:20:53 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
.. .


If house has stood anyway for 150 years,
it's likely to remain for a
good few years yet, true?

No. The longer it is there the closer it is to falling down.

What a nonsense statement.

It would apply to anything constructed, and a solid masonry structure
that has already stood solidly for 150 years is far more likely to
last for another 150 than one of your SIP panel disposable prefabs.

Well, the "no" was nonsense, the second part is, of course correct.
Everything falls down eventually so the longer it is up the closer it is to
falling down, and it does apply to anything constructed, but it is not a
particularly helpful statement. He should have said:

"Yes, but, of course, the longer anything stands the closer it is to falling
down"


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Set Square wrote:
What is the cost of errecting a new traditionally built bog-standard
detached house with two to three bedrooms?

No idea!

From another thread, try:-
http://www.abi.org.uk/Public/Consume...calculator.asp

--
Chris Green

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 09:53:50 +0100, Mike Mitchell
wrote:


What is the cost of errecting a new traditionally built bog-standard
detached house with two to three bedrooms?

GBP750 per sq m.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:20:53 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
.. .

Okay, here's the story. I am now considering a property in
Lincolnshire. This is a very, very old cottage, at least 150 years, I
reckon. The setting is isolated and idyllic. But I made some enquiries
from the agent, who told me that the building had been underpinned at
the rear some years ago. I have not yet visited the property.

Some questions:

Buildings of that era had no foundations, true?

Some did, but shallow.

Does underpinning cure, or postpone, a problem?

Mostly it cures it if done properly.

What is the cost of errecting a new traditionally
built bog-standard detached house with two
to three bedrooms? I'm talking ball-park here.
Absolutely bog-standard, but well constructed,
with cavity walls, solid internal walls, at least
downstairs, lots of insulation, quality
windows and doors, floorboards instead of chipboard.
In effect, what would the building cost be for
a slighlty better than "council house"
design? £60,000? £80,000? This has to be for
the finished habitable, product.

Go timber framed with external clad brick. Having solid blocks and bricks
and high insulation is very expensive and entails very thick walls. Give
the house an eco tag and the planners will be more favourable....see below
for the a guide in building a house

If house has stood anyway for 150 years,
it's likely to remain for a
good few years yet, true?

No. The longer it is there the closer it is to falling down.

A house to the specs bleow can be built for approx 80-100K depending on what
input you give yourself.

The Building Structu

- A light framed superinsulated structure (Minimum of 400mm of Warmcell
spay-in cellulous insulation in the roof, 250-300mm in the walls, heavy foam
in the floor if a concrete slab). Have Warmcell in internal walls so as to
give sound insulation - it is v. good at this.
- Face the house south to capture passive solar energy.
- Calculate the pitch of the roof for maximum insulation at your latitude.
- Calculate the roof overhangs to keep the sun off the windows and walls in
summer.
- Have the north side with few windows.
- Triple glazed with low "e" glass.
- Eliminate thermal bridges. These tend to be where the walls meet the
ground and the roof, or one material meets another. Use nylon tie bars if
cladding in brick
- Use SIP panels or TJI "I" beams. The void in the "I" beams can be filled
with Warmcell cellulous insulation (re-cycled newspaper). The Warmcell makes
the structure air-tight.
- Have all of the south facing roof being a solar panel heating water from
the sun. That is a large surface generating much heat.
- Could have a full width conservatory on the south side. Better if full
width and full height. This will help but not essential. Nice to have
though as bedrooms could have a balcony opening into the conservatory and
you can have coffee on the balcony in January.
- No letterbox in front door. All doors heavily insulated and sealed (the
Swedes do the best doors).
- Have a study for home working.

Heating, Vent, Thermal Storage:

- Store the heat in a large thermal store, which would have to be sized to
suit. Better have a battery of small cylinders, so if one leaks it is an
easy and cheap job of replacing.
- The heavy thermal stores can be at ground level. They could even be in a
separate building with superinsulted underground pipes between it and the
house if need be. The thermal store should hold enough energy to heat the
building over 3 or 4 cloudy days.
- Use "very" low temperature underfloor heating, which means lots of
underfloor pipes.
- In winter not a lot of very hot water will be generated, but hot enough
for very low temp underfloor heating.
- This low temperature water can act as a preheat for DHW.
- If hot water is generated, hot enough for domestic hot water, then this
water should be suitably stored for ready use rather than merging into a
large low temperature water store.
- The controls will be off the shelf and all be using the odd pump here and
there.
- A backup heat source can be incorporated when cloudy days extend over 3 or
4 days.
- The water system is understandable by any intelligent plumber.
- As underfloor heating is being used, best have an extract only vent
system. Heat recovery is expensive. The thermal store should store enough
energy for the heating system to compensate for vent losses.

Water Reclamation:

- There are large water tanks that fill from the roof available ready made.
The BENELUX countries have these as standard in new builds.
- The water tank is under the garden.
- The water is used to water the garden and flush toilets, reducing water
consumption drastically.

PV Cell:

- Don't bother as they are still super expensive with very long payback
times. If the house done as above then little electricity will be used.

Low Energy Appliance:

- These tend to be German like AEG, etc. Find out which of these is the
most economical in energy and water consumption and put these in the spec.

Comms:

- Wire the place out in CAT 5 to accommodate computers and home working.

The above is the basic concept. Then, depending on site, size of house, etc,
it is a matter of applying numbers to size up the thermals store, heat loss,
How much energy the solar roof will generate, sizing a "very" low temp
underfloor heating system, etc.

Look at this book:
Building with Strucutural Insulated Panels (SIPs): Strength and Energy
Efficiency Through Structural Panel Construction
By Michael Morley
ISBN: 1561583510

Synopsis
Structural insulated panels are sandwiches of foam insulation between two
sheets of fibreboard or plywood, and are used to build walls, roofs and
floors in all kinds of modern buildings: instead of three components - a
frame, insulation and sheathing - SIP panels are all three things and come
ready to install. SIP- constructed buildings are vastly more efficient,
quicker to build, stronger, quieter and more draught-free than older
post-war building systems. Taps into a huge and growing self-build market
which is generally only served by technical books.; Tips and information on
this highly efficient building material from an expert builder who
specialises in structural insulated panel construction. Packed with 180
colour photographs and 40 drawings.; Takes the reader through the entire
process of building a panel-constructed house, from planning and estimating,
ordering, storage and handling to construction.

Some SIP companies:
http://www.bpac.co.uk
http://www.sipltd.com
http://www.vencel.co.uk
http://www.tekhaus.kingspan.com
http://www.opstalan.nl
http://www.redex.nl
http://www.isobouw.nl
http://www.vencel.co.uk

Look at "I" beams:
http://www.masonite-beams.se

Thanks for the tips about the foundations, etc. But I'm not in the
slightest bit interested in SIPs, straw bales, that kind of thing. To
me a house is a house that is built like a brick outhouse, end of
story. Bricks, mortar, windows, a chimney, and a fireplace. Simple. I
don't care if it's a bit draughty.

MM

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:20:53 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
.. .


If house has stood anyway for 150 years,
it's likely to remain for a
good few years yet, true?

No. The longer it is there the closer it is to falling down.

What a nonsense statement.

It would apply to anything constructed, and a solid masonry structure
that has already stood solidly for 150 years is far more likely to
last for another 150 than one of your SIP panel disposable prefabs.

Well, the "no" was nonsense, the second part is, of course correct.
Everything falls down eventually so the longer it is up the closer it is
to
falling down, and it does apply to anything constructed, but it is not a
particularly helpful statement. He should have said:

"Yes, but, of course, the longer anything stands the closer it is to
falling
down"

No. I shuld have said:
No. The longer it is there the closer it is to falling down.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:20:53 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
.. .

If house has stood anyway for 150 years,
it's likely to remain for a
good few years yet, true?

No. The longer it is there the closer it is to falling down.

What a nonsense statement.

What a mentalist statement. He continues...

It would apply to anything constructed, and a solid masonry structure
that has already stood solidly for 150 years is far more likely to
last for another 150 than one of your SIP panel disposable prefabs.

My God, this one has no idea whatsoever. He doesn't even know what a SIP
panel is and goes on about them. Fascinating, fascinating.

"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:20:53 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
.. .

Okay, here's the story. I am now considering a property in
Lincolnshire. This is a very, very old cottage, at least 150 years, I
reckon. The setting is isolated and idyllic. But I made some enquiries
from the agent, who told me that the building had been underpinned at
the rear some years ago. I have not yet visited the property.

Some questions:

Buildings of that era had no foundations, true?

Some did, but shallow.

Does underpinning cure, or postpone, a problem?

Mostly it cures it if done properly.

What is the cost of errecting a new traditionally
built bog-standard detached house with two
to three bedrooms? I'm talking ball-park here.
Absolutely bog-standard, but well constructed,
with cavity walls, solid internal walls, at least
downstairs, lots of insulation, quality
windows and doors, floorboards instead of chipboard.
In effect, what would the building cost be for
a slighlty better than "council house"
design? £60,000? £80,000? This has to be for
the finished habitable, product.

Go timber framed with external clad brick. Having solid blocks and bricks
and high insulation is very expensive and entails very thick walls. Give
the house an eco tag and the planners will be more favourable....see
below
for the a guide in building a house

If house has stood anyway for 150 years,
it's likely to remain for a
good few years yet, true?

No. The longer it is there the closer it is to falling down.

A house to the specs bleow can be built for approx 80-100K depending on
what
input you give yourself.

The Building Structu

- A light framed superinsulated structure (Minimum of 400mm of Warmcell
spay-in cellulous insulation in the roof, 250-300mm in the walls, heavy
foam
in the floor if a concrete slab). Have Warmcell in internal walls so as
to
give sound insulation - it is v. good at this.
- Face the house south to capture passive solar energy.
- Calculate the pitch of the roof for maximum insulation at your
latitude.
- Calculate the roof overhangs to keep the sun off the windows and walls
in
summer.
- Have the north side with few windows.
- Triple glazed with low "e" glass.
- Eliminate thermal bridges. These tend to be where the walls meet the
ground and the roof, or one material meets another. Use nylon tie bars if
cladding in brick
- Use SIP panels or TJI "I" beams. The void in the "I" beams can be
filled
with Warmcell cellulous insulation (re-cycled newspaper). The Warmcell
makes
the structure air-tight.
- Have all of the south facing roof being a solar panel heating water
from
the sun. That is a large surface generating much heat.
- Could have a full width conservatory on the south side. Better if full
width and full height. This will help but not essential. Nice to have
though as bedrooms could have a balcony opening into the conservatory and
you can have coffee on the balcony in January.
- No letterbox in front door. All doors heavily insulated and sealed
(the
Swedes do the best doors).
- Have a study for home working.

Heating, Vent, Thermal Storage:

- Store the heat in a large thermal store, which would have to be sized
to
suit. Better have a battery of small cylinders, so if one leaks it is an
easy and cheap job of replacing.
- The heavy thermal stores can be at ground level. They could even be in
a
separate building with superinsulted underground pipes between it and the
house if need be. The thermal store should hold enough energy to heat
the
building over 3 or 4 cloudy days.
- Use "very" low temperature underfloor heating, which means lots of
underfloor pipes.
- In winter not a lot of very hot water will be generated, but hot enough
for very low temp underfloor heating.
- This low temperature water can act as a preheat for DHW.
- If hot water is generated, hot enough for domestic hot water, then this
water should be suitably stored for ready use rather than merging into a
large low temperature water store.
- The controls will be off the shelf and all be using the odd pump here
and
there.
- A backup heat source can be incorporated when cloudy days extend over 3
or
4 days.
- The water system is understandable by any intelligent plumber.
- As underfloor heating is being used, best have an extract only vent
system. Heat recovery is expensive. The thermal store should store
enough
energy for the heating system to compensate for vent losses.

Water Reclamation:

- There are large water tanks that fill from the roof available ready
made.
The BENELUX countries have these as standard in new builds.
- The water tank is under the garden.
- The water is used to water the garden and flush toilets, reducing water
consumption drastically.

PV Cell:

- Don't bother as they are still super expensive with very long payback
times. If the house done as above then little electricity will be used.

Low Energy Appliance:

- These tend to be German like AEG, etc. Find out which of these is the
most economical in energy and water consumption and put these in the
spec.

Comms:

- Wire the place out in CAT 5 to accommodate computers and home working.

The above is the basic concept. Then, depending on site, size of house,
etc,
it is a matter of applying numbers to size up the thermals store, heat
loss,
How much energy the solar roof will generate, sizing a "very" low temp
underfloor heating system, etc.

Look at this book:
Building with Strucutural Insulated Panels (SIPs): Strength and Energy
Efficiency Through Structural Panel Construction
By Michael Morley
ISBN: 1561583510

Synopsis
Structural insulated panels are sandwiches of foam insulation between two
sheets of fibreboard or plywood, and are used to build walls, roofs and
floors in all kinds of modern buildings: instead of three components - a
frame, insulation and sheathing - SIP panels are all three things and
come
ready to install. SIP- constructed buildings are vastly more efficient,
quicker to build, stronger, quieter and more draught-free than older
post-war building systems. Taps into a huge and growing self-build market
which is generally only served by technical books.; Tips and information
on
this highly efficient building material from an expert builder who
specialises in structural insulated panel construction. Packed with 180
colour photographs and 40 drawings.; Takes the reader through the entire
process of building a panel-constructed house, from planning and
estimating,
ordering, storage and handling to construction.

Some SIP companies:
http://www.bpac.co.uk
http://www.sipltd.com
http://www.vencel.co.uk
http://www.tekhaus.kingspan.com
http://www.opstalan.nl
http://www.redex.nl
http://www.isobouw.nl
http://www.vencel.co.uk

Look at "I" beams:
http://www.masonite-beams.se

Thanks for the tips about the foundations, etc. But I'm not in the
slightest bit interested in SIPs, straw bales, that kind of thing.

SIPs are mainstream in north America, being the UK we are 30 years behind
(SIPS were invented around 1950), you don't need to wear sandals and eat
lentil sandwiches to use them. Many commercial building use them in the USA,
and now here in the UK too. Taco Bell Mexican fast food outlets in the USA
are built of SIPs. SIP builings of up to 4 or 5 floors have been built.

SIPs are "very" solid indeed with all the floors and walls being "solid".
Sound suppression is superb. Do some research

To me a house is a house that is built like a brick outhouse, end of
story.

That will be SIPs then. And you won't need a heating system either. It will
also be built in afew days.

Bricks,

A SIP house can be clad in brick.

mortar,

A concrete base can be used.

windows,

SIP house have windows would you believe.

a chimney,

SIP houses can have chimney's

and a fireplace.

And fireplaces too.

Simple. I
don't care if it's a bit draughty.

SIPs are not draughty. But if that is what turns you on then holes can be
drilled were you sit.

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 09:53:50 +0100, Mike Mitchell
wrote:


What is the cost of errecting a new traditionally built bog-standard
detached house with two to three bedrooms?

GBP750 per sq m.

That price is so vague it is not worth considering.

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:10:48 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:20:53 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
.. .

If house has stood anyway for 150 years,
it's likely to remain for a
good few years yet, true?

No. The longer it is there the closer it is to falling down.

What a nonsense statement.

What a mentalist statement. He continues...

It would apply to anything constructed, and a solid masonry structure
that has already stood solidly for 150 years is far more likely to
last for another 150 than one of your SIP panel disposable prefabs.

My God, this one has no idea whatsoever. He doesn't even know what a SIP
panel is and goes on about them. Fascinating, fascinating.

Do you have pointed ears or something?

It is pretty easy to find out information about SIPs. Even you
managed it.

I notice that as usual, you didn't mention any of the disadvantages of
these materials such as the effects of insect and rodent infestation.

Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky-tacky,
Little boxes, little boxes,
Little boxes, all the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:33:02 +0100, "IMM" wrote:




SIPs are mainstream in north America, being the UK we are 30 years behind
(SIPS were invented around 1950), you don't need to wear sandals and eat
lentil sandwiches to use them.

We also have a rather different climate to much of it.

Many commercial building use them in the USA,
and now here in the UK too. Taco Bell Mexican fast food outlets in the USA
are built of SIPs.

A real recommendation then.

So are the leftovers of the building used to make the tacos or the
other way round.?


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:10:48 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:20:53 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Mike Mitchell" wrote in message
.. .

If house has stood anyway for 150 years,
it's likely to remain for a
good few years yet, true?

No. The longer it is there the closer it is to falling down.

What a nonsense statement.

What a mentalist statement. He continues...

It would apply to anything constructed, and a solid masonry structure
that has already stood solidly for 150 years is far more likely to
last for another 150 than one of your SIP panel disposable prefabs.

My God, this one has no idea whatsoever. He doesn't even know what a SIP
panel is and goes on about them. Fascinating, fascinating.

Do you have pointed ears or something?

It is pretty easy to find out information about SIPs.

Why didn't you then?

I notice that as usual, you didn't mention any of the disadvantages of
these materials such as the effects of insect and rodent infestation.

On SIPs? Please give examples. It is best you stop making things up.

Now this mentalist goes on .....

Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky-tacky,
Little boxes, little boxes,
Little boxes, all the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same.

Wow...wow!

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:33:02 +0100, "IMM" wrote:




SIPs are mainstream in north America,
being the UK we are 30 years behind
(SIPS were invented around 1950), you
don't need to wear sandals and eat
lentil sandwiches to use them.

We also have a rather different climate to much of it.

And much of it the same. They also eat more hamburgers than us too.

Many commercial building use them in the USA,
and now here in the UK too. Taco Bell Mexican fast food outlets in the
USA
are built of SIPs.

A real recommendation then.

Yep.

So are the leftovers of the building used to make the tacos or the
other way round.?

Well they will a taco whatever way you like.

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:33:55 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


That price is so vague it is not worth considering.

If I had said £30.00 to £3,000 per sq m that would have been vague.
£750 on the other hand is not vague at all but quite precise. It may
be wrong, but it remains precise. As a planning figure I suggest it
is not far off.

The cost of construction, all other things being equal, relates to
the size of the house so a cost per sq m of floor area is more
helpful than "x for a y bedroom" as 3 or 4 bedroom is meaningless
other than to estate agents.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:33:55 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


That price is so vague it is not worth considering.

If I had said £30.00 to £3,000 per sq m that would have been vague.
£750 on the other hand is not vague at all but quite precise.

£750 for what? You have to know the size, construction type and fitments to
have a firm figure.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:33:02 +0100, "IMM" wrote:




SIPs are mainstream in north America, being the UK we are 30 years behind
(SIPS were invented around 1950), you don't need to wear sandals and eat
lentil sandwiches to use them.

I wear sandals but have never heard of lentil sandwiches ... what's the
connection?

Mary

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:57:06 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message

I notice that as usual, you didn't mention any of the disadvantages of
these materials such as the effects of insect and rodent infestation.

On SIPs? Please give examples. It is best you stop making things up.


I never do that.

www.huduser.org/publications/wpd/finalrpt.wp5

"One potential disadvantage is that foam core panels are susceptible
to tunneling by termites, carpenter ants, and rodents that can destroy
the structural integrity of the assembly. This is especially
troublesome because the tunnels are difficult to detect. Where
termites pose a threat, standard preventive measures should be used
such as soil treatment or termite shields. At least one panel
manufacturer has incorporated borate into their expanded polystyrene
core as an insect repellent, but the effectiveness is not
well-documented to date. Apparently other foam materials are not as
receptive to treatment. "


Other integrity problems as well.

http://www.sipweb.com/2001-10_juneau.pdf




Since these things are forming part of the structural integrity of the
house, anything that can potentially cause damage to the core or to
the OSB covering is a major concern.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

IMM wrote:

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 09:53:50 +0100, Mike Mitchell
wrote:


What is the cost of errecting a new traditionally built bog-standard
detached house with two to three bedrooms?

GBP750 per sq m.

That price is so vague it is not worth considering.

What on earth is vague about it?

--
Chris Green

IMM wrote:

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:33:55 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


That price is so vague it is not worth considering.

If I had said £30.00 to £3,000 per sq m that would have been vague.
£750 on the other hand is not vague at all but quite precise.

£750 for what? You have to know the size, construction type and fitments to
have a firm figure.

Per square metre!

--
Chris Green

wrote in message ...
IMM wrote:

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:33:55 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


That price is so vague it is not worth considering.

If I had said £30.00 to £3,000 per sq m that would have been vague.
£750 on the other hand is not vague at all but quite precise.

£750 for what? You have to know the size, construction type and
fitments to
have a firm figure.

Per square metre!

Or squ. foot if you want.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:57:06 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message

I notice that as usual, you didn't mention any of the disadvantages of
these materials such as the effects of insect and rodent infestation.

On SIPs? Please give examples. It is best you stop making things up.


I never do that.

www.huduser.org/publications/wpd/finalrpt.wp5

"One potential disadvantage is that foam core panels are susceptible
to tunneling by termites, carpenter ants, and rodents that can destroy
the structural integrity of the assembly. This is especially
troublesome because the tunnels are difficult to detect. Where
termites pose a threat, standard preventive measures should be used
such as soil treatment or termite shields. At least one panel
manufacturer has incorporated borate into their expanded polystyrene
core as an insect repellent, but the effectiveness is not
well-documented to date. Apparently other foam materials are not as
receptive to treatment. "

You missed this
"one panel manufacturer has incorporated borate into their expanded
polystyrene core as an insect repellent"

We also do not have termites like the USA does. Infestation of these panels
is not a problem in the UK.

In article , Imm wrote:
If I had said £30.00 to £3,000 per sq m that would have been vague.
£750 on the other hand is not vague at all but quite precise.

£750 for what? You have to know the size, construction type and
fitments to have a firm figure.

http://www.abi.org.uk/Public/Consume...calculator.asp

For a modern 100m2 semi it gives figures of £73,800 and £95,9000
for London/SE and Wales/Scotland/NE. Playing around with some
other options suggests that £1000 would be a safer ballpark figure

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:57:06 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message

I notice that as usual, you didn't mention any of the disadvantages of
these materials such as the effects of insect and rodent infestation.

On SIPs? Please give examples. It is best you stop making things up.


I never do that.

www.huduser.org/publications/wpd/finalrpt.wp5

"One potential disadvantage is that foam core panels are susceptible
to tunneling by termites, carpenter ants, and rodents that can destroy
the structural integrity of the assembly. This is especially
troublesome because the tunnels are difficult to detect. Where
termites pose a threat, standard preventive measures should be used
such as soil treatment or termite shields. At least one panel
manufacturer has incorporated borate into their expanded polystyrene
core as an insect repellent, but the effectiveness is not
well-documented to date. Apparently other foam materials are not as
receptive to treatment. "


Other integrity problems as well.

http://www.sipweb.com/2001-10_juneau.pdf

The houses built in Alaska were not errected correctly. The problems were
nothing to do with the SIP panles themselves. If you poorly errect any house
of any contruction you will have problems.

A Google will bring out the results of the Alaska failures.

.....Any more tripe?

What on earth is vague about it?

It's not vague, just very low. I'd say 1000 per sq m. is a better guess in
my neck of the woods for basic construction and cheap fittings.

Christian.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 09:53:50 +0100, Mike Mitchell
wrote:


What is the cost of errecting a new traditionally built bog-standard
detached house with two to three bedrooms?

GBP750 per sq m.

That price is so vague it is not worth considering.


Wrong. It is actually a precise price. Now whether or not it is an accurate
reflection of the true cost is indeed questionable, but it sure as heck
isn't vague.

Cheers
Clive

Okay, here's the story. I am now considering a property in
Lincolnshire. This is a very, very old cottage, at least 150 years, I
reckon. The setting is isolated and idyllic. But I made some enquiries
from the agent, who told me that the building had been underpinned at
the rear some years ago. I have not yet visited the property.

Some questions:

Buildings of that era had no foundations, true?

Some did, but shallow.

Don't assume that underpinning is essential cos a house with minimal
foundations can be perfectly stable if the underlying earth/stone is
well compacted and not going anywhere. If you find anything which
warns of movement, like wall cracks or if the house is built on a
hillside (Not too many of them in Lincolnshire) or it is built in a
fen (more likely) then there may be a problem that needs to be dealt
with

However the nice new extension that you get built will have to comply
with building regs and will have a good deep foundation. Then you are
bound to get cracking cos the two bits of houses will have
differential movement

Simple. I
don't care if it's a bit draughty.

Don't go for new build then. That sort of thing is illegal these days

Anna

~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

http://www.sipweb.com/2001-10_juneau.pdf

Here is what happened.....all installation problems....


Rotting SIP roofs in Juneau Part I: The Base Line Info

by Steve Andrews

SIP Manufacturers Respond

Mike Bryan, Premier Building Systems
"What I know is there were a number of Premier panels, back when we were an
R-Control plant, that were installed in Juneau, and now we have problems
with the top layer of OSB turning to mush," said Premier's Mike Bryan.

"Last February through May, we sent three different people up on four
different occasions. During our investigations, we determined that there
were numerous problems with the installations. The builder's liability
insurance company paid the entire bill. The problems with the installations
were so flagrant that they didn't have much choice. The good news is that
80%-90% of the people want replacement panels on their new roofs."

"The deficiencies were obvious to the casual observer," said Bryan. "The
list starts with missing OSB spline connectors, missing pieces of lumber,
missing foam, missing adhesive."

"In retrospect, I can see that a climate like Juneau is somewhere we would
want to be particularly careful about the details."

Jim Ferraro, Insulspan of Idaho



Ferraro is not aware of any other instances of roof rot in his SIP panels.
"We do a lot of work in Seattle and Oregon, and haven't experienced problems
with rot."

Phil Reynolds, Alchem (Anchorage, Alaska)



"Our company has more than a dozen, maybe two dozen homes with rot in
panels," said Dave Gauthier. "That's a very small percentage of our homes.
Almost without exception, it's due to installation problems

IMM wrote:

That price is so vague it is not worth considering.



Let's remember what the OP asked:

"What is the cost of errecting a new traditionally built bog-standard
detached house with two to three bedrooms? I'm talking ball-park here."

Ball-park is what he asks for and that's what he got.

Another Dave.

--
Change nospam to webtribe in e-mail address

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:07:58 GMT, (Anna Kettle) wrote:

However the nice new extension that you get built will have to comply
with building regs and will have a good deep foundation. Then you are
bound to get cracking cos the two bits of houses will have
differential movement

Don't follow this - if the existing structure is presumed not to be going
anywhere anymore, and the extension has foundations sufficient to stop it
also going anywhere, then the two are going nowhere together, no ?

[I do understand differential settlement - my own house is half-cellared
front-to-back and the cellar that is there stops 6' shy of the back wall...]

--
The only successful substitute for brains: Silence!

Mail john rather than nospam...

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:44:19 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:57:06 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message

I notice that as usual, you didn't mention any of the disadvantages of
these materials such as the effects of insect and rodent infestation.

On SIPs? Please give examples. It is best you stop making things up.


I never do that.

www.huduser.org/publications/wpd/finalrpt.wp5

"One potential disadvantage is that foam core panels are susceptible
to tunneling by termites, carpenter ants, and rodents that can destroy
the structural integrity of the assembly. This is especially
troublesome because the tunnels are difficult to detect. Where
termites pose a threat, standard preventive measures should be used
such as soil treatment or termite shields. At least one panel
manufacturer has incorporated borate into their expanded polystyrene
core as an insect repellent, but the effectiveness is not
well-documented to date. Apparently other foam materials are not as
receptive to treatment. "

You missed this
"one panel manufacturer has incorporated borate into their expanded
polystyrene core as an insect repellent"

We also do not have termites like the USA does. Infestation of these panels
is not a problem in the UK.


We certainly have rodents, and we certainly have the potential for rot
and the various weevils and other creatures who love to follow it.

It is impossible to say what the long term implications of these are
in the UK environment because there is too little history and too
small an installed base.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Mary Fisher" wrote
| I'd have thought so - but I don't call 150 years "very, very old"!
| Reminds me of when I first went to america and was proudly shown
| "the oldest house on the island" - it was 90 yo.

I was reading posts elsewhere about someone's trip to Abu Dhabi and the
local museum showed what life was like in "Old" Abu Dhabi ... in 1974, I
think, before the oil brought prosperity, skyscrapers, desalination plants
and cheap immigrant labour.

Owain

"Another Dave" wrote
| Let's remember what the OP asked:
| "What is the cost of errecting a new traditionally built bog-
| standard detached house with two to three bedrooms? I'm talking
| ball-park here."
| Ball-park is what he asks for and that's what he got.

Wouldn't it be more expensive building on a ball-park than on an existing
serviced plot?

Owain

"IMM" wrote
| Many commercial building use them in the USA,
| and now here in the UK too. Taco Bell Mexican fast food
| outlets in the USA are built of SIPs.
| A real recommendation then.
| Yep.
| So are the leftovers of the building used to make the
| tacos or the other way round.?
| Well they will a taco whatever way you like.

It takes two to taco.

Owain

In message , IMM writes

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:33:55 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


That price is so vague it is not worth considering.

If I had said £30.00 to £3,000 per sq m that would have been vague.
£750 on the other hand is not vague at all but quite precise.

£750 for what? You have to know the size, construction type and fitments to
have a firm figure.



Of course you do, but the OP is not expecting a precise figure for
building this hypothetical house which he has not even designed yet.

£750 per sq.m. is a fair ball park figure for him to work with, as is
£73 per sq.ft.. If his spec is better, or worse, than the typical, he
will have to alter the figure accordingly.

The above suggests that a typical reasonably sized 1200sq.ft. house
would cost around £90,000 to build. Add this to the land cost, factor in
where you live in the meantime, and the hassle, and you can make a
decision as to whether to take it further, or consign the idea to the
bin.

--
Richard Faulkner