Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and parked.
In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The other vehicle
wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at tickover speeds a
useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and have
any references to it?

I have an application where something like this would be a possible
solution.

Thanks in Advance

Bob

Bob Minchin wrote:
Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and parked.
In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The other vehicle
wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at tickover speeds a
useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and have
any references to it?

I have an application where something like this would be a possible
solution.

Thanks in Advance

Bob
its not hard to build..

Bob Minchin formulated the question :
Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV - possibly
Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and parked.
In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The other vehicle
wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at tickover speeds a useful
amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a gateway
and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

I can remember it vaguely.


Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and have any
references to it?

I've not seen anything, probably it wasn't that practical.

Likely the same could be achieved using an additional alternator, under
the bonnet. Or there are plenty of small portable genny sets about now,
for not much money.

I have an application where something like this would be a possible solution.

I'm listening?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:54:11 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
its not hard to build..

I wonder if the original commercial product was canned over H+S worries...
must be fun if someone got stuck in the rollers, or chocks came loose, or
something in the mechanism fouled up. Not something a DIYer has to worry
about (well they do, but if something screws up it's their own fault) but
I could see it having some commercial issues...

I like the 'build one' aspect - but where does one source a big-ish
alternator these days? Make one? (i.e. same sort of DIY disk alternator
that some of the wind tubine homebrewers are cooking up) - or is there a
good source somewhere for alternators without any kind of engine to drive
them?

cheers

Jules

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Bob Minchin formulated the question :
Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and parked.
In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The other
vehicle wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at tickover
speeds a useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

I can remember it vaguely.


Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and
have any references to it?

I've not seen anything, probably it wasn't that practical.

Likely the same could be achieved using an additional alternator, under
the bonnet. Or there are plenty of small portable genny sets about now,
for not much money.

I have an application where something like this would be a possible
solution.

I'm listening?

My requirement is not to generate electricity but to directly drive a
pump to extract water from a well in deepest France where one could
drive a standard 2CV van. The important part of my requirement is the
vehicle is unmodified and the drive is taken from a driven wheel.
Bob

In article ,
Bob Minchin wrote:
Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and parked.
In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The other vehicle
wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at tickover speeds a
useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and have
any references to it?

I have an application where something like this would be a possible
solution.

These days most car alternators produce a lot of amps - so an inverter
would be a cheaper solution. And more efficient. Most modern cars will
alter the idle speed to cope with the extra load.

--
*Why is a boxing ring square?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Jules laid this down on his screen :
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:54:11 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
its not hard to build..

I wonder if the original commercial product was canned over H+S worries...
must be fun if someone got stuck in the rollers, or chocks came loose, or
something in the mechanism fouled up. Not something a DIYer has to worry
about (well they do, but if something screws up it's their own fault) but
I could see it having some commercial issues...

I like the 'build one' aspect - but where does one source a big-ish
alternator these days? Make one? (i.e. same sort of DIY disk alternator
that some of the wind tubine homebrewers are cooking up) - or is there a
good source somewhere for alternators without any kind of engine to drive
them?

A basic car alternator can produce 110v.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

It happens that Dave Plowman (News) formulated :
In article ,
Bob Minchin wrote:
Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and parked.
In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The other vehicle
wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at tickover speeds a
useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and have
any references to it?

I have an application where something like this would be a possible
solution.

These days most car alternators produce a lot of amps - so an inverter
would be a cheaper solution. And more efficient. Most modern cars will
alter the idle speed to cope with the extra load.

The well would likely need to have the pump lowered down into it,
because most efficient types of pumps are not able to create enough
vacuum to draw the water up to them - so the electrical, rather than a
direct mechanical solution is more likely to work.

Get an inverter and a sump pump.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

In article . com,
Jules writes:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:54:11 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
its not hard to build..

I wonder if the original commercial product was canned over H+S worries...
must be fun if someone got stuck in the rollers, or chocks came loose, or
something in the mechanism fouled up. Not something a DIYer has to worry
about (well they do, but if something screws up it's their own fault) but
I could see it having some commercial issues...

Let's see... Using drill... bit jams... heavy load on generator...
large resistance on rollers... car comes bouncing off and drives
itself off into the distance...

--
Andrew Gabriel

Bob Minchin wrote:
Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and
parked. In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The
other vehicle wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at
tickover speeds a useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and
have any references to it?

Sounds like an extremly simple & practical idea - along the lines of the
wind up radio. Possibilities are endless, hook up a hydralic pump instead
of an alternator & the world is your lobster.

I wonder why it never made it? Prolly too simple & practical. Most of the
Third World would love the idea.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:29:06 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

It happens that Dave Plowman (News) formulated :
In article ,
Bob Minchin wrote:
Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and parked.
In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The other vehicle
wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at tickover speeds a
useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and have
any references to it?

I have an application where something like this would be a possible
solution.

These days most car alternators produce a lot of amps - so an inverter
would be a cheaper solution. And more efficient. Most modern cars will
alter the idle speed to cope with the extra load.

The well would likely need to have the pump lowered down into it,
because most efficient types of pumps are not able to create enough
vacuum to draw the water up to them

Ours is 80' deep or so, with the pump at the top, but it needs to be
primed with water before it'll work (i.e. a well in the bore-hole sense,
rather than wide brickwork medieval shaft).

I've never had to prime it myself, so I'm not sure exactly how much water
it needs - although the folks next door have a similar setup and said
that they once primed theirs with "a few" buckets full of water from the
next folk down, so it can't typically be *that* much (i.e. so if that's
what the OP has then it'd be possible to transportable enough priming
water to the site via a vehicle)

One day I might read the manual to see exactly how it all works ;-)
There's two pipes, so I assume forcing water down to the well base somehow
pressurises things and forces more water up the main bore to the top, so
some such voodoo.

cheers

Jules

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and
have any references to it?

Sounds like an extremly simple & practical idea - along the lines of the
wind up radio. Possibilities are endless, hook up a hydralic pump
instead of an alternator & the world is your lobster.

Still cheaper to use an inverter with most vehicles. You then have the
choice of cheap mass produced mains devices.

I wonder why it never made it? Prolly too simple & practical. Most of
the Third World would love the idea.

It sounds like a horribly inefficient way of using fuel and resources.
In a 'third world' country a vehicle with a power take off would make more
sense.

--
*Work is for people who don't know how to fish.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:13:22 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and
have any references to it?

Sounds like an extremly simple & practical idea - along the lines of the
wind up radio. Possibilities are endless, hook up a hydralic pump
instead of an alternator & the world is your lobster.

Still cheaper to use an inverter with most vehicles. You then have the
choice of cheap mass produced mains devices.

How well do they cope with big inductive loads such as motors though,
where the start-up surge can be quite big? (i.e. the well pump that the OP
refers to)

I agree it seems like a good solution if running everyday electronics out
in the wilds, I just don't know how well it'd stand up to running the
'bigger stuff'.

It sounds like a horribly inefficient way of using fuel and resources.
In a 'third world' country a vehicle with a power take off would make
more sense.

On the negative side, there are inefficiencies in running a generator via
rollers from a car wheel I suppose - but on the plus side, any vehicle can
be used rather than needing one with a PTO (and in any kind of harsh
environment, the less single points of failure the better)

cheers

Jules

"Jules" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:29:06 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

It happens that Dave Plowman (News) formulated :
In article ,
Bob Minchin wrote:
Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and
parked.
In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The other
vehicle
wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at tickover speeds a
useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and
have
any references to it?

I have an application where something like this would be a possible
solution.

These days most car alternators produce a lot of amps - so an inverter
would be a cheaper solution. And more efficient. Most modern cars will
alter the idle speed to cope with the extra load.

The well would likely need to have the pump lowered down into it,
because most efficient types of pumps are not able to create enough
vacuum to draw the water up to them

Ours is 80' deep or so, with the pump at the top, but it needs to be
primed with water before it'll work (i.e. a well in the bore-hole sense,
rather than wide brickwork medieval shaft).

The pump can't be at the top, you can only raise water by 32 feet using a
vacuum.
The pump must be at the bottom where it can apply pressure to raise the
water by more than 32 feet.


I've never had to prime it myself, so I'm not sure exactly how much water
it needs - although the folks next door have a similar setup and said
that they once primed theirs with "a few" buckets full of water from the
next folk down, so it can't typically be *that* much (i.e. so if that's
what the OP has then it'd be possible to transportable enough priming
water to the site via a vehicle)

One day I might read the manual to see exactly how it all works ;-)
There's two pipes, so I assume forcing water down to the well base somehow
pressurises things and forces more water up the main bore to the top, so
some such voodoo.

Maybe you inflate a bladder at the bottom and force the water up?

In article . com,
Jules wrote:
Sounds like an extremly simple & practical idea - along the lines of
the wind up radio. Possibilities are endless, hook up a hydralic
pump instead of an alternator & the world is your lobster.

Still cheaper to use an inverter with most vehicles. You then have the
choice of cheap mass produced mains devices.

How well do they cope with big inductive loads such as motors though,
where the start-up surge can be quite big? (i.e. the well pump that the
OP refers to)

In the same way as your generator driven off the car wheel would - it
needs to be butch enough to cope with a starting load.

I agree it seems like a good solution if running everyday electronics out
in the wilds, I just don't know how well it'd stand up to running the
'bigger stuff'.

You need one rated for the job.

It sounds like a horribly inefficient way of using fuel and resources.
In a 'third world' country a vehicle with a power take off would make
more sense.

On the negative side, there are inefficiencies in running a generator
via rollers from a car wheel I suppose - but on the plus side, any
vehicle can be used rather than needing one with a PTO (and in any kind
of harsh environment, the less single points of failure the better)

Friction drives are horribly inefficient - as well as the safety issues.

--
*There's no place like www.home.com *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:21:15 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article . com,
Jules wrote:
Sounds like an extremly simple & practical idea - along the lines of
the wind up radio. Possibilities are endless, hook up a hydralic
pump instead of an alternator & the world is your lobster.

Still cheaper to use an inverter with most vehicles. You then have the
choice of cheap mass produced mains devices.

How well do they cope with big inductive loads such as motors though,
where the start-up surge can be quite big? (i.e. the well pump that the
OP refers to)

In the same way as your generator driven off the car wheel would - it
needs to be butch enough to cope with a starting load.

I agree it seems like a good solution if running everyday electronics out
in the wilds, I just don't know how well it'd stand up to running the
'bigger stuff'.

You need one rated for the job.

OK... I was just curious as most inverters I've seen are piddly little
things which seem like they'd happily go bang if given any serious work to
do :-) (but fine for running laptops etc.)

Friction drives are horribly inefficient - as well as the safety issues.

No argument there! In the OP's case I'd be looking at something* other
than a roller drive. But some somewhere where keeping things running is
more important than the efficiency or safety, I can imagine it might make
a good minimum-maintenance solution.

* going IC engine - roller drive - alternator - motor - pump does seem
a bit clunky. Even jacking up one back wheel of the vehicle and
tapping mechanical power straight from there to drive the pump might be
relatively painless (given enough hub bolts on the wheel it might just be
a case of removing two or three and bolting a drive flange to them - no
need to even take a whole wheel off). There's still the inefficiency of
the vehicle's drivetrain, but OTOH it allows better matching of engine and
pump speed.

cheers

Jules

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:46:57 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
The well would likely need to have the pump lowered down into it,
because most efficient types of pumps are not able to create enough
vacuum to draw the water up to them

Ours is 80' deep or so, with the pump at the top, but it needs to be
primed with water before it'll work (i.e. a well in the bore-hole sense,
rather than wide brickwork medieval shaft).

The pump can't be at the top, you can only raise water by 32 feet using a
vacuum.
The pump must be at the bottom where it can apply pressure to raise the
water by more than 32 feet.

It's at the top; surface-level pumps are very common out here. The
following seems to explain operation pretty well:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...36.html?page=3

(watch for URL wrapping)

Priming seems to be limited to just filling the surface-level pump, so
they don't need a lot of priming water at all (subject to the anti-drain
valve in the shaft operating properly)

We've actually got a separate (abandoned) well shaft out back; a pit of at
least 20' deep with square cross-section (sides about 3' wide) - I suspect
that did once house a submerged pump (or at least something operating on
vacuum and not raising water very far). It's so full of junk right now
that I'm not sure how far down it goes :-)

cheers

Jules

"Bob Minchin" wrote in message

Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and parked.
In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The other vehicle
wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at tickover speeds a
useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and have
any references to it?

I have an application where something like this would be a possible
solution.

Thanks in Advance

Bob


Wouldn't it be easier to buy a 12Vdc appliance and plug it into the cigar
lighter socket. There are huge amounts of things that have been specially
designed to run like that.

"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
news
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Bob Minchin formulated the question :
Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and parked.
In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The other vehicle
wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at tickover speeds a
useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

I can remember it vaguely.


Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and have
any references to it?

I've not seen anything, probably it wasn't that practical.

Likely the same could be achieved using an additional alternator, under
the bonnet. Or there are plenty of small portable genny sets about now,
for not much money.

I have an application where something like this would be a possible
solution.

I'm listening?

My requirement is not to generate electricity but to directly drive a pump
to extract water from a well in deepest France where one could drive a
standard 2CV van. The important part of my requirement is the vehicle is
unmodified and the drive is taken from a driven wheel.

Why the last? It is usually more efficient to pump up, rather than to lift
by suction, so I would drop a 12 volt submersible pump, like a boat bilge
pump, down the well and run that from the car battery with the engine
running..

Colin Bignell

BigWallop explained on 18/08/2009 :
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message

Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and parked.
In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The other vehicle
wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at tickover speeds a
useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and have
any references to it?

I have an application where something like this would be a possible
solution.

Thanks in Advance

Bob


Wouldn't it be easier to buy a 12Vdc appliance and plug it into the cigar
lighter socket. There are huge amounts of things that have been specially
designed to run like that.

That gave me an idea....

Caravans use 12v DC water pumps, some of them designed to work inline
with the pipe, others intended to fit at the dipped into the water end
of the pipe. Flow rates are enough for a shower, but lifting height
will be limited - say around two meters.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
BigWallop explained on 18/08/2009 :
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message

Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and parked.
In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The other vehicle
wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at tickover speeds a
useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and have
any references to it?

I have an application where something like this would be a possible
solution.

Thanks in Advance

Bob


Wouldn't it be easier to buy a 12Vdc appliance and plug it into the cigar
lighter socket. There are huge amounts of things that have been
specially
designed to run like that.

That gave me an idea....

Caravans use 12v DC water pumps, some of them designed to work inline
with the pipe, others intended to fit at the dipped into the water end
of the pipe. Flow rates are enough for a shower, but lifting height will
be limited - say around two meters.

Its far and away teh best way to power stuff. Get a trailer socket
fitted, run the engine to charge the battery and use 12v.

If you need 230v, maybe a rotary converter?

I'm kind of worried about the idea of taking drive off one axle. The
diff. is designed to transmit load to both axles at once, and I'm not
sure it would take kindly to having one axle fixed and the other
spinning for long periods. Never mind the thoughts on the rollers.
However...

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
BigWallop explained on 18/08/2009 :
Wouldn't it be easier to buy a 12Vdc appliance and plug it into the cigar
lighter socket. There are huge amounts of things that have been
specially
designed to run like that.

That gave me an idea....

Caravans use 12v DC water pumps, some of them designed to work inline
with the pipe, others intended to fit at the dipped into the water end
of the pipe. Flow rates are enough for a shower, but lifting height will
be limited - say around two meters.


Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

These days most car alternators produce a lot of amps - so an inverter
would be a cheaper solution. And more efficient. Most modern cars will
alter the idle speed to cope with the extra load.


Guys, this is a 2CV. Modern car? And aren't they 6 volts??

Andy.

on 18/08/2009, Andy Champ supposed :
I'm kind of worried about the idea of taking drive off one axle. The diff.
is designed to transmit load to both axles at once, and I'm not sure it would
take kindly to having one axle fixed and the other spinning for long periods.
Never mind the thoughts on the rollers. However...

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
BigWallop explained on 18/08/2009 :
Wouldn't it be easier to buy a 12Vdc appliance and plug it into the cigar
lighter socket. There are huge amounts of things that have been specially
designed to run like that.

That gave me an idea....

Caravans use 12v DC water pumps, some of them designed to work inline with
the pipe, others intended to fit at the dipped into the water end of the
pipe. Flow rates are enough for a shower, but lifting height will be
limited - say around two meters.


Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

These days most car alternators produce a lot of amps - so an inverter
would be a cheaper solution. And more efficient. Most modern cars will
alter the idle speed to cope with the extra load.


Guys, this is a 2CV. Modern car? And aren't they 6 volts??

Andy.

Oh, OK...

Jack wheel up, remove wheel, fit a length of drive shaft bolted the
wheel studs - driving an Archemedes screw pump Þ

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

BigWallop wrote:
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message

Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and parked.
In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The other vehicle
wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at tickover speeds a
useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and have
any references to it?

I have an application where something like this would be a possible
solution.

Thanks in Advance

Bob


Wouldn't it be easier to buy a 12Vdc appliance and plug it into the cigar
lighter socket. There are huge amounts of things that have been specially
designed to run like that.



Typical vehicles may well have 6v electrics. I've not seen inverters
that work on 6v systems.
In anycase i want the mechanical effort off the road wheels to directly
drive a pump.

Bob

nightjar cpb@ wrote:
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
news
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Bob Minchin formulated the question :
Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and parked.
In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The other vehicle
wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at tickover speeds a
useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.
I can remember it vaguely.

Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and have
any references to it?
I've not seen anything, probably it wasn't that practical.

Likely the same could be achieved using an additional alternator, under
the bonnet. Or there are plenty of small portable genny sets about now,
for not much money.
I have an application where something like this would be a possible
solution.
I'm listening?

My requirement is not to generate electricity but to directly drive a pump
to extract water from a well in deepest France where one could drive a
standard 2CV van. The important part of my requirement is the vehicle is
unmodified and the drive is taken from a driven wheel.

Why the last? It is usually more efficient to pump up, rather than to lift
by suction, so I would drop a 12 volt submersible pump, like a boat bilge
pump, down the well and run that from the car battery with the engine
running..

Colin Bignell


Many 2cvs have 6v volt electrics

Bob

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
on 18/08/2009, Andy Champ supposed :
I'm kind of worried about the idea of taking drive off one axle. The
diff. is designed to transmit load to both axles at once, and I'm not
sure it would take kindly to having one axle fixed and the other
spinning for long periods. Never mind the thoughts on the rollers.
However...

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
BigWallop explained on 18/08/2009 :
Wouldn't it be easier to buy a 12Vdc appliance and plug it into the
cigar
lighter socket. There are huge amounts of things that have been
specially
designed to run like that.

That gave me an idea....

Caravans use 12v DC water pumps, some of them designed to work inline
with the pipe, others intended to fit at the dipped into the water
end of the pipe. Flow rates are enough for a shower, but lifting
height will be limited - say around two meters.


Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

These days most car alternators produce a lot of amps - so an inverter
would be a cheaper solution. And more efficient. Most modern cars will
alter the idle speed to cope with the extra load.


Guys, this is a 2CV. Modern car? And aren't they 6 volts??

Andy.

Oh, OK...

Jack wheel up, remove wheel, fit a length of drive shaft bolted the
wheel studs - driving an Archemedes screw pump Þ

Now we are getting back to where i want to be apart from not taking the
wheel off.
Friction drive to pump.

Bob

"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
...
nightjar cpb@ wrote:
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
news
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Bob Minchin formulated the question :
Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and
parked.
In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The other
vehicle wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at tickover
speeds a useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.
I can remember it vaguely.

Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and
have any references to it?
I've not seen anything, probably it wasn't that practical.

Likely the same could be achieved using an additional alternator, under
the bonnet. Or there are plenty of small portable genny sets about now,
for not much money.
I have an application where something like this would be a possible
solution.
I'm listening?

My requirement is not to generate electricity but to directly drive a
pump to extract water from a well in deepest France where one could
drive a standard 2CV van. The important part of my requirement is the
vehicle is unmodified and the drive is taken from a driven wheel.

Why the last? It is usually more efficient to pump up, rather than to
lift by suction, so I would drop a 12 volt submersible pump, like a boat
bilge pump, down the well and run that from the car battery with the
engine running..

Colin Bignell
Many 2cvs have 6v volt electrics

Submersible pumps are available for 6 volts as well.

Colin Bignell

In article ,
Bob Minchin wrote:
Typical vehicles may well have 6v electrics.

Doubt there's many left outside classic car circles.

I've not seen inverters that work on 6v systems.

Because of the above.


In anycase i want the mechanical effort off the road wheels to directly
drive a pump.

There are many reasons why this ain't the best way.

--
*Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Bob Minchin wrote:
Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and
parked. In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The
other vehicle wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at
tickover speeds a useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

Despite all the naysayers I still reckon this idea has legs. Average small
car must develop 50hp +? Thats going to run a hell of a lot more than any
inverter ever could.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:52:11 +0100, Bob Minchin wrote:
Jack wheel up, remove wheel, fit a length of drive shaft bolted the
wheel studs - driving an Archemedes screw pump Þ

Now we are getting back to where i want to be apart from not taking the
wheel off.
Friction drive to pump.

As I menationed earlier, if you have enough wheel studs then you can make
up a flange to do this - maybe drill it so some of the wheel nuts
help locate it, but take a couple of nuts off and use those to
bolte the flange to the wheel hub.

Couple of UJ's and a short bit of shaft from the flange to the pump, and
you're done.

Eliminates dangerous rollers, eliminates the gearing-up effect of tyre
against rollers, takes up less space, has some frictional advantages etc.

cheers

Jules

Bob Minchin wrote:
BigWallop wrote:
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message

Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and parked.
In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The other vehicle
wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at tickover speeds a
useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

Does anyone know if this was ever taken to a commercial product and have
any references to it?

I have an application where something like this would be a possible
solution.

Thanks in Advance

Bob


Wouldn't it be easier to buy a 12Vdc appliance and plug it into the cigar
lighter socket. There are huge amounts of things that have been
specially
designed to run like that.



Typical vehicles may well have 6v electrics. I've not seen inverters
that work on 6v systems.
In anycase i want the mechanical effort off the road wheels to directly
drive a pump.


I suggest you swap the 2CV for a steam traction engine then.


Bob

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:
Years ago, there was a prototype electrical generator shown on TV -
possibly Tomorrow's World etc.

It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and
parked. In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The
other vehicle wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at
tickover speeds a useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

Despite all the naysayers I still reckon this idea has legs. Average small
car must develop 50hp +? Thats going to run a hell of a lot more than any
inverter ever could.


Not a 2CV.

AND certainly NOT running static with no airflow round the engine.

In the 1973 days we had a 2L cortina engine driving a 5Kw genny. (about
8bhp) it died and was replaced with a perkins Diesel. That managed it.

You need to derate a LOT for 24x7 static operation.
Definitely the easiest thing to do is too get a 6v brushed motor and
attach it to a pump and drop it down the hole and pump with that. Most
electric motors of that sort of voltage are fully capable of running
immersed in fresh water.

I dunno how much head they can pump against though,

The alternator should be capable of a few amps at least.

The Natural Philosopher gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

Despite all the naysayers I still reckon this idea has legs. Average
small car must develop 50hp +? Thats going to run a hell of a lot more
than any inverter ever could.

Not a 2CV.

30bhp.

AND certainly NOT running static with no airflow round the engine.

You'd be fine - the fan generates enough cooling whilst the engine's
static, assuming the oil cooler's kept properly cleaned.

I'd be more concerned by running it with just one wheel acting as a PTO -
that's going to put a lot of unusual load on the diff.

Buying (or making - a 2cv engine in a cradle with the flywheel driving a
pump directly...?) a cheap petrol generator seems like a much better plan
to me.

Adrian wrote:
The Natural Philosopher gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

Despite all the naysayers I still reckon this idea has legs. Average
small car must develop 50hp +? Thats going to run a hell of a lot more
than any inverter ever could.

Not a 2CV.

30bhp.

AND certainly NOT running static with no airflow round the engine.

You'd be fine - the fan generates enough cooling whilst the engine's
static, assuming the oil cooler's kept properly cleaned.

I'd be more concerned by running it with just one wheel acting as a PTO -
that's going to put a lot of unusual load on the diff.

Buying (or making - a 2cv engine in a cradle with the flywheel driving a
pump directly...?) a cheap petrol generator seems like a much better plan
to me.

TBH a 'motor and prop on a pole' like they use in the far east sounds
the best of all.

But I take issue that a cars fan is enough to keep it cool at full power
or anything like it.

In fact on cheap cars, full power is often not catered for even with the
car at speed. Auxiliary fans are there to keep the engine cool at idle
when the car is stationary.

Which is why the whole idea is really impractical. You need to locate
the car securely, arrange auxiliary cooling, do something about the Diff
and locking three wheels wheel, and arrange a complex mechanical power
takeoff.

That's why we invented electricity. Its so much simpler.

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
It was a low ramp on which one wheel of a vehicle was driven and
parked. In the ramp was a pair of rollers driving a generator. The
other vehicle wheels were chocked. With the car in gear and at
tickover speeds a useful amount of power was generated.
I seem to recall the demonstration was a farmer going out to repair a
gateway and being able to run an electric drill to assist the repair.

Despite all the naysayers I still reckon this idea has legs. Average
small car must develop 50hp +?

Not at idle. Indeed many are close to stalling. Putting a large extra load
on the engine would often need adjustments.

Thats going to run a hell of a lot more than any
inverter ever could.

If you've ever seen the way a car leaps around on a rolling road when
conducting full power tests you'd be wary about trying it on one set of
unsecured rollers...

--
*I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...


If you've ever seen the way a car leaps around on a rolling road when
conducting full power tests you'd be wary about trying it on one set of
unsecured rollers...

Where is it storing all the energy needed to make it jump around?

On 19 Aug, 13:14, "dennis@home" wrote:

Where is it storing all the energy needed to make it jump around?

Rotational inertia in the wheels.

You think cars are bad, try trucks...

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:39:08 -0700, Andy Dingley wrote:

On 19 Aug, 13:14, "dennis@home" wrote:

Where is it storing all the energy needed to make it jump around?

Rotational inertia in the wheels.

Doubtless the natural spring from the tyres make it bounce a lot...

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Jules
saying something like:

One day I might read the manual to see exactly how it all works ;-)
There's two pipes, so I assume forcing water down to the well base somehow
pressurises things and forces more water up the main bore to the top, so
some such voodoo.

I had one like that and they're still common enough around here. Iirc,
it's a venturi effect down in the footvalve assembly, that draws more
water up than goes down. The only drawback is the need to keep the
sealing in tiptop order which means dragging up the footvalve every so
often and maintaining /repairing /replacing it, else the head of water
in the pressure tank up top is lost, necessitating priming every time
you want it to work.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Jules
saying something like:

You need one rated for the job.

OK... I was just curious as most inverters I've seen are piddly little
things which seem like they'd happily go bang if given any serious work to
do :-) (but fine for running laptops etc.)

Not so, icba to look, but via ebay for example, you'll find 3kW
inverters for norralorra dough. I have a cheap'ncheerful 1.5kW (3kW
peak) modified sine inverter which cost all of sixty quid a couple of
years ago. I noticed recently that pure sinewave inverters were
plummeting in price and I might get one of those as I'm not too happy
about running the TV off the mod-sine one.