I've asked questions before about routers and had some very useful responses
which I shall peruse again on google.

This is a rather specific question:

I need to rebate a load of architrave so it sits cleanly over the plaster
which is higher in places than the door frame, and also sits tight to the
door frame. I can caulk between the architrave and wall but not between the
architrave and the frame as the wood's on show. Need to rebate between
2-5mm or so over about a 40-50mm width (sounds like several passes).

Would a job like this demand a router table or is it a case of clamping the
wood down to a bench and using the router in hand held mode with its own
fence guiding it along the wood.

Architrave is 2.1m max by 70mm wide by 15mm thick (or less - it's
chamfered).

I ask, because I can choose a decent router fairly easily but choosing a
table is something I'd rather put off for a bit

I'm probably going for a lower end Trend. This will be the first of many
jobs.

Cheers

Tim

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:55:37 +0100, Tim S wrote:

I've asked questions before about routers and had some very useful
responses which I shall peruse again on google.

This is a rather specific question:

I need to rebate a load of architrave so it sits cleanly over the plaster
which is higher in places than the door frame, and also sits tight to the
door frame. I can caulk between the architrave and wall but not between
the architrave and the frame as the wood's on show. Need to rebate between
2-5mm or so over about a 40-50mm width (sounds like several passes).

Would a job like this demand a router table or is it a case of clamping
the wood down to a bench and using the router in hand held mode with its
own fence guiding it along the wood.

Architrave is 2.1m max by 70mm wide by 15mm thick (or less - it's
chamfered).

I ask, because I can choose a decent router fairly easily but choosing a
table is something I'd rather put off for a bit

I'm probably going for a lower end Trend. This will be the first of many
jobs.

Cheers

Tim

==========================================

I think you could do this job more easily with a planer - either hand-held
or bench. You could set a side stop on a bench planer for 50mm and get the
necessary depth in one or more passes. You could do much the same with a
hand planer provided that you can adequately support the architrave to be
planed.

None of the above applies if you're determined to buy a router which would
not be a bad idea in any case. A small bench planer is well-worth having
for general use whatever you decide.

Cic.

--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

Cicero wibbled:


==========================================

I think you could do this job more easily with a planer - either hand-held
or bench. You could set a side stop on a bench planer for 50mm and get the
necessary depth in one or more passes. You could do much the same with a
hand planer provided that you can adequately support the architrave to be
planed.

None of the above applies if you're determined to buy a router which would
not be a bad idea in any case. A small bench planer is well-worth having
for general use whatever you decide.

Cic.


That's an option... I have an electric hand planer - but I've never tried
using it to cut rebates. It might be difficult to clamp the piece down to
get a single pass with a plane as it's tapered wood (and I'd need to
G-clamp it on the taper) which is why a router came to mind - I could do
that in two sessions, moving the clamps.

Cheers

Tim

On 10 Aug, 10:41, Tim S wrote:
Cicero wibbled:

==========================================

I think you could do this job more easily with a planer - either hand-held
or bench. You could set a side stop on a bench planer for 50mm and get the
necessary depth in one or more passes. You could do much the same with a
hand planer provided that you can adequately support the architrave to be
planed.

None of the above applies if you're determined to buy a router which would
not be a bad idea in any case. A small bench planer is well-worth having
for general use whatever you decide.

Cic.

That's an option... I have an electric hand planer - but I've never tried
using it to cut rebates. It might be difficult to clamp the piece down to
get a single pass with a plane as it's tapered wood (and I'd need to
G-clamp it on the taper) which is why a router came to mind - I could do
that in two sessions, moving the clamps.

Cheers

Tim

You would need to clamp it just as well, if not better, using a
router.

This is not going to be much fun with a handheld router, much better
off with a table. To get the job done, it doesn't need to be anything
complex. A bit of ply or whatever as the top, a bit of wood as a
fence held with a couple of cramps.

Or, cut some 5mm thick strips of whatever wood it is and build out the
frame instead.

Bolted coughed up some electrons that declared:


Hi - ta for this:

You would need to clamp it just as well, if not better, using a
router.

Indeed - but I *could* route the bits upto but not including the clamps,
then reclamp on the rebated bit and route the remaining bits. Can't do that
with a plane.

At least I'd be clamping down through the square section as many times as
needed so it should be secure.

This is not going to be much fun with a handheld router, much better
off with a table. To get the job done, it doesn't need to be anything
complex. A bit of ply or whatever as the top, a bit of wood as a
fence held with a couple of cramps.

That is an option I'd considered (for later in lieu of a "proper" table).

Do I need any of those "router insert" thingies I've read about or can I
just screw the router under a bit of 18mm ply with a hole for the collet
and do the rest as you suggest?

Sorry - never used (or seen) and router in action before...

Or, cut some 5mm thick strips of whatever wood it is and build out the
frame instead.

It's nice wood and it's getting a bit expensive to keep going down the yard
(even though I'm getting a fair price on what I'm buying, it's not cheap).

I *definately* need a router (kitchen worktops for one) so it might as well
see some use now, is my thinking

Cheers

Tim

On 10 Aug, 11:22, Tim S wrote:
Bolted coughed up some electrons that declared:

Hi - ta for this:

You would need to clamp it just as well, if not better, using a
router.

Indeed - but I *could* route the bits upto but not including the clamps,
then reclamp on the rebated bit and route the remaining bits. Can't do that
with a plane.

At least I'd be clamping down through the square section as many times as
needed so it should be secure.

This is not going to be much fun with a handheld router, much better
off with a table. *To get the job done, it doesn't need to be anything
complex. *A bit of ply or whatever as the top, a bit of wood as a
fence held with a couple of cramps.

That is an option I'd considered (for later in lieu of a "proper" table).

Do I need any of those "router insert" thingies I've read about or can I
just screw the router under a bit of 18mm ply with a hole for the collet
and do the rest as you suggest?

Sorry - never used (or seen) and router in action before...

Or, cut some 5mm thick strips of whatever wood it is and build out the
frame instead.

It's nice wood and it's getting a bit expensive to keep going down the yard
(even though I'm getting a fair price on what I'm buying, it's not cheap)..

I *definately* need a router (kitchen worktops for one) so it might as well
see some use now, is my thinking

Cheers

Tim

You don't need an insert for a 'get you home' type job.

Here's an example of a (very slightly elaborated) simple table
http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/etip040700wb.html

Tim S wrote:
Bolted coughed up some electrons that declared:


Hi - ta for this:

You would need to clamp it just as well, if not better, using a
router.

Indeed - but I *could* route the bits upto but not including the clamps,
then reclamp on the rebated bit and route the remaining bits. Can't do that
with a plane.

At least I'd be clamping down through the square section as many times as
needed so it should be secure.

This is not going to be much fun with a handheld router, much better
off with a table. To get the job done, it doesn't need to be anything
complex. A bit of ply or whatever as the top, a bit of wood as a
fence held with a couple of cramps.

That is an option I'd considered (for later in lieu of a "proper" table).

Do I need any of those "router insert" thingies I've read about or can I
just screw the router under a bit of 18mm ply with a hole for the collet
and do the rest as you suggest?

Sorry - never used (or seen) and router in action before...

Or, cut some 5mm thick strips of whatever wood it is and build out the
frame instead.

It's nice wood and it's getting a bit expensive to keep going down the yard
(even though I'm getting a fair price on what I'm buying, it's not cheap).

I *definately* need a router (kitchen worktops for one) so it might as well
see some use now, is my thinking

Cheers

Tim

Quicker and neater to level 70mm of plaster I would have thought.
Doesn't really matter if the architrave is 5mm below the level of the
wall in places. Gripfil will fill any gaps if the plaster doesn't come
away cleanly.
Incidentally, laminate trimmers are quite useful for the sort of thing
you're (mistakenly in my view) contemplating. Lightweight mini-routers
in effect, and you can use them one handed at a push.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tim S wrote:


I *definately* need a router (kitchen worktops for one) so it might
as well see some use now, is my thinking


Possibly not the *same* router, though. If you're talking about using a
router and jig to cut mason joints on your worktop, you're going to need a
powerful (2000+ watts) 1/2" jobby - which you'll find big and heavy for
smaller jobs - especially if hand-held.

Someone else beat me to it, but I was also going to suggest that you forget
about rebating the wood, and chop some off the plaster instead, so that it's
no longer proud of the frame.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Tim S wrote:

I've asked questions before about routers and had some very useful responses
which I shall peruse again on google.

This is a rather specific question:

I need to rebate a load of architrave so it sits cleanly over the plaster
which is higher in places than the door frame, and also sits tight to the
door frame. I can caulk between the architrave and wall but not between the
architrave and the frame as the wood's on show. Need to rebate between
2-5mm or so over about a 40-50mm width (sounds like several passes).

Would a job like this demand a router table or is it a case of clamping the
wood down to a bench and using the router in hand held mode with its own
fence guiding it along the wood.

Architrave is 2.1m max by 70mm wide by 15mm thick (or less - it's
chamfered).

One trick here is to just make a feature of the step. Introduce a slim
wood lath between the frame and the architrave such that you create a
stepped edge effect. Its technique that will tend to make the woodwork
look more ornate - which may or may not be a good thing depending what
look you are going for.

A bit like:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...avePacking.jpg

I ask, because I can choose a decent router fairly easily but choosing a
table is something I'd rather put off for a bit

I'm probably going for a lower end Trend. This will be the first of many
jobs.

If you go the rebate route, it one of those jobs that you can do in a
number of ways. The fast solution would be a pair of non through cuts on
a table saw (or possibly just one if the blade kerf is wider than the
amount you need to remove.

A plane, would probably be my next choice if I did not have a router table.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Rumm wrote:


If you go the rebate route, it one of those jobs that you can do in a
number of ways. The fast solution would be a pair of non through cuts
on a table saw (or possibly just one if the blade kerf is wider than the
amount you need to remove.


That's probably what I'd do - and hope that no-one from H&S is watching when
I remove the guard and riving knife to be able to do non-through cuts.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Rumm wrote:

If you go the rebate route, it one of those jobs that you can do in a
number of ways. The fast solution would be a pair of non through cuts
on a table saw (or possibly just one if the blade kerf is wider than the
amount you need to remove.


That's probably what I'd do - and hope that no-one from H&S is watching when
I remove the guard and riving knife to be able to do non-through cuts.

You can fit a splitter in place of the riving knife.

(let's hope H&S don't see my saw - it was made before things like guards
were thought of!)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Rumm wrote:

If you go the rebate route, it one of those jobs that you can do in a
number of ways. The fast solution would be a pair of non through cuts
on a table saw (or possibly just one if the blade kerf is wider than
the
amount you need to remove.


That's probably what I'd do - and hope that no-one from H&S is
watching when I remove the guard and riving knife to be able to do
non-through cuts.

You can fit a splitter in place of the riving knife.

(let's hope H&S don't see my saw - it was made before things like guards
were thought of!)


I put mine in a drawer 30 years ago and haven't taken it out since, but
I'd already had tuition from an experienced saw hand, so was reasonably
confident. However, I don't think I'd want to start using a sawbench for
the first time without someone showing me the ropes for an hour. Then
again, excessive Andy Hall type precautions can lead to an irrational
fear of the thing.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Rumm wrote:

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Rumm wrote:

If you go the rebate route, it one of those jobs that you can do in
a number of ways. The fast solution would be a pair of non through
cuts on a table saw (or possibly just one if the blade kerf is wider
than the amount you need to remove.


That's probably what I'd do - and hope that no-one from H&S is
watching when I remove the guard and riving knife to be able to do
non-through cuts.

You can fit a splitter in place of the riving knife.


I could possibly make one, but I doubt whether there's an off-the-shelf
splitter to fit my saw - which is one of these http://tinyurl.com/ls6hab
(suitably re-engineered to make it work!)
In my case, the guard actually bolts onto the back of the riving knife -
which sticks up a long way above the table so that the wood *has* to pass
either side of it and not over the top.

What does a splitter look like? Is it a bit like a riving knife, but without
the guard attachment, and only sticking up by slightly less than the blade?
I guess what I need is to get a spare riving knife and saw a chunk off.

Having said all that, for non-through cuts, I can't see that you actually
*need* a splitter. But I suppose if I had one, I could do *through* cuts
without the guard. Maybe that's the thing to do - convert the riving knife
into a splitter and throw away the guard. I *think* I can contrive not to
cut too many fingers off!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Rumm wrote:

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Rumm wrote:

If you go the rebate route, it one of those jobs that you can do in
a number of ways. The fast solution would be a pair of non through
cuts on a table saw (or possibly just one if the blade kerf is wider
than the amount you need to remove.

That's probably what I'd do - and hope that no-one from H&S is
watching when I remove the guard and riving knife to be able to do
non-through cuts.
You can fit a splitter in place of the riving knife.


I could possibly make one, but I doubt whether there's an off-the-shelf
splitter to fit my saw - which is one of these http://tinyurl.com/ls6hab
(suitably re-engineered to make it work!)
In my case, the guard actually bolts onto the back of the riving knife -
which sticks up a long way above the table so that the wood *has* to pass
either side of it and not over the top.

What does a splitter look like? Is it a bit like a riving knife, but without
the guard attachment, and only sticking up by slightly less than the blade?
I guess what I need is to get a spare riving knife and saw a chunk off.

A splitter can be as simple as a fixed protrusion that sticks up behind
the blade. However, a riving knife with the guard support removed would
be the best bet - that will allow non through cuts without any
difficulty. The only thing you can't really do with a riving knife on
are plunge cuts and cove cutting.

Having said all that, for non-through cuts, I can't see that you actually
*need* a splitter. But I suppose if I had one, I could do *through* cuts
without the guard. Maybe that's the thing to do - convert the riving knife
into a splitter and throw away the guard. I *think* I can contrive not to
cut too many fingers off!

Having the pair would probably be best - riving knife and guard, and
knife on its own.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wibbled:

A bit like:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...avePacking.jpg


This is also a good suggestion - I hadn't thought of doing that. I'll see
how the plaster shaving goes first.

I might need this method as unfortunately 3 segments of my nice straight
flat frames cupped a bit due to large amounts of wet plaster (wish I'd
anticipated that and waterproofed the back!).

It's not much - a few mm at most, not enough to really notice or mess up
door fitting, but it's introduced an angle on the edges, where the
architrave will go. Planing that in situ is possible but fiddly.

I'll have a look in B&Q at the hardwood trim shelf - 5mm x 10mm would do the
job nicely if there's some wood to match mine...

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:
John Rumm wibbled:

A bit like:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...avePacking.jpg


This is also a good suggestion - I hadn't thought of doing that. I'll see
how the plaster shaving goes first.

I might need this method as unfortunately 3 segments of my nice straight
flat frames cupped a bit due to large amounts of wet plaster (wish I'd
anticipated that and waterproofed the back!).

It's not much - a few mm at most, not enough to really notice or mess up
door fitting, but it's introduced an angle on the edges, where the
architrave will go. Planing that in situ is possible but fiddly.

I'll have a look in B&Q at the hardwood trim shelf - 5mm x 10mm would do the
job nicely if there's some wood to match mine...

Ripsaw slices off a larger plank if not...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Tim S wrote:
John Rumm wibbled:

A bit like:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...avePacking.jpg


This is also a good suggestion - I hadn't thought of doing that. I'll see
how the plaster shaving goes first.

I might need this method as unfortunately 3 segments of my nice straight
flat frames cupped a bit due to large amounts of wet plaster (wish I'd
anticipated that and waterproofed the back!).

It's not much - a few mm at most, not enough to really notice or mess up
door fitting, but it's introduced an angle on the edges, where the
architrave will go. Planing that in situ is possible but fiddly.

I'll have a look in B&Q at the hardwood trim shelf - 5mm x 10mm would do the
job nicely if there's some wood to match mine...

Cheers

Tim

Architrave normally covers the edge of the frame, so that doesn't have
to be dead flat. I usually pin the 3 lengths to the frame, get the
mitres lined up properly (this stands out like a sore thumb if it isn't
right), then do whatever filling is required (this nobody is ever going
to notice).

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:02:39 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Tim S wrote:

I've asked questions before about routers and had some very useful responses
which I shall peruse again on google.

This is a rather specific question:

I need to rebate a load of architrave so it sits cleanly over the plaster
which is higher in places than the door frame, and also sits tight to the
door frame. I can caulk between the architrave and wall but not between the
architrave and the frame as the wood's on show. Need to rebate between
2-5mm or so over about a 40-50mm width (sounds like several passes).

A plane, would probably be my next choice if I did not have a router table.

My choice would be my table saw (actually a Triton Workcentre), just put
the arch on edge against the fence, with the saw blade set low down, and
take the rebate out in 1 or 2 passes. No need for the finess of a router
as you are going to caulk in the joint anyway.

Phil

"Tim S" wrote in message
.. .
I've asked questions before about routers and had some very useful
responses
which I shall peruse again on google.

This is a rather specific question:

I need to rebate a load of architrave so it sits cleanly over the plaster
which is higher in places than the door frame, and also sits tight to the
door frame. I can caulk between the architrave and wall but not between
the
architrave and the frame as the wood's on show. Need to rebate between
2-5mm or so over about a 40-50mm width (sounds like several passes).

I would put it through my table saw, do you have access to one?

On Aug 10, 9:55*am, Tim S wrote:
I've asked questions before about routers and had some very useful responses
which I shall peruse again on google.

This is a rather specific question:

I need to rebate a load of architrave so it sits cleanly over the plaster
which is higher in places than the door frame, and also sits tight to the
door frame.

I had a similar problem and found it simplest to sand off some
plaster so it was bevelled gently in to meet the door frame. This was
an old house with lime plaster so it was easy to sand off.

Robert

Robert Laws wibbled:

On Aug 10, 9:55*am, Tim S wrote:
I've asked questions before about routers and had some very useful
responses which I shall peruse again on google.

This is a rather specific question:

I need to rebate a load of architrave so it sits cleanly over the plaster
which is higher in places than the door frame, and also sits tight to the
door frame.

I had a similar problem and found it simplest to sand off some
plaster so it was bevelled gently in to meet the door frame. This was
an old house with lime plaster so it was easy to sand off.

Robert

Good point - though sanding anything except wood is no longer permitted as
we've got the house clean (3/4s of it is still a building site, but it's a
very clean building site - needs to be as the kids live down there some
days)

I'm going to try with the shaving/scraping suggestion and see how it goes :0

Cheers

Tim

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:23:32 +0100, Tim S wrote:

Robert Laws wibbled:

On Aug 10, 9:55*am, Tim S wrote:
I've asked questions before about routers and had some very useful
responses which I shall peruse again on google.

This is a rather specific question:

I need to rebate a load of architrave so it sits cleanly over the
plaster which is higher in places than the door frame, and also sits
tight to the door frame.

I had a similar problem and found it simplest to sand off some plaster
so it was bevelled gently in to meet the door frame. This was an old
house with lime plaster so it was easy to sand off.

Robert

Good point - though sanding anything except wood is no longer permitted as
we've got the house clean (3/4s of it is still a building site, but it's a
very clean building site - needs to be as the kids live down there some
days)

I'm going to try with the shaving/scraping suggestion and see how it goes
:0

Cheers

Tim

==========================================

Try a surform if you've got one.

Cic.
--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

Cicero wibbled:



Try a surform if you've got one.

Cic.

Another genius suggestion - ta.

Good old uk.d-i-y

Cicero wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:23:32 +0100, Tim S wrote:

Robert Laws wibbled:

On Aug 10, 9:55 am, Tim S wrote:
I've asked questions before about routers and had some very useful
responses which I shall peruse again on google.

This is a rather specific question:

I need to rebate a load of architrave so it sits cleanly over the
plaster which is higher in places than the door frame, and also sits
tight to the door frame.
I had a similar problem and found it simplest to sand off some plaster
so it was bevelled gently in to meet the door frame. This was an old
house with lime plaster so it was easy to sand off.

Robert
Good point - though sanding anything except wood is no longer permitted as
we've got the house clean (3/4s of it is still a building site, but it's a
very clean building site - needs to be as the kids live down there some
days)

I'm going to try with the shaving/scraping suggestion and see how it goes
:0

Cheers

Tim

==========================================

Try a surform if you've got one.

Cic.

An old saw can work well (the longer the better). The teeth score the
peaks and don't touch the troughs, so you get a "map" of the high spots,
hopefully scored to the right depth.