I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge runnning
and keep a battery charged while camping.
Has anyone any experience/opinions?

Also with energy prices being the way they are has anyone gone further than
this and installed solar in the home? Likewise with wind, a local electrical
supplier reckoned he could get me a 2kw turbine for approx £1500. At one
point I would have thought alternative power was prohibitively expensive but
now it looks as though it may sense.

On 2008-07-27 11:49:57 +0100, "R D S" said:

I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge runnning
and keep a battery charged while camping.
Has anyone any experience/opinions?

Also with energy prices being the way they are has anyone gone further than
this and installed solar in the home? Likewise with wind, a local electrical
supplier reckoned he could get me a 2kw turbine for approx £1500. At one
point I would have thought alternative power was prohibitively expensive but
now it looks as though it may sense.

It would do if it actually delivered on its promises. In fact it
falls way short and so is not viable at the scale and budget suggested.

"R D S" wrote in message
...
I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge runnning
and keep a battery charged while camping.
Has anyone any experience/opinions?

We have a solar panel in the caravan which keeps the leisure battery topped
up. We're very happy with it, got it from Maplins, about £10. We got another
to keep the scooter battery topped up because it's only used for very short
journeys.

Also with energy prices being the way they are has anyone gone further
than this and installed solar in the home?

We haven't a pv array although we're considering it but we do have a solar
dhw panel which is brilliant.

Likewise with wind, a local electrical supplier reckoned he could get me a
2kw turbine for approx £1500. At one point I would have thought
alternative power was prohibitively expensive but now it looks as though
it may sense.

We looked into that but all the suppliers have told us that there are too
many buildings and trees around us for it to be efficient. Spouse would
still like one!

Yes, people have mocked us about our investments but we're having the last
laugh :-)

They also mocked us about signing up to keeping our gas prices at the (then)
current level. I bet they're eating their cynical words now!

Installing any alternative energy gadgets doesn't just give a financial
return (which isn't the reason most people do it anyway), it makes one aware
of helping the environment in other ways - by not squandering our resources.

Mary

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:49:57 +0100, R D S wrote:

I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge
runnning and keep a battery charged while camping.

It'll have to be a *big* (expensive) photovoltaic panel to run a fridge
even under bright sunlight conditions. Battery top up is practical against
self discharge and light use.

Also with energy prices being the way they are has anyone gone further
than this and installed solar in the home? Likewise with wind, a local
electrical supplier reckoned he could get me a 2kw turbine for approx
£1500.

Does that include the control gear, grid connect, invertor, etc etc. Bear
in mind that even well sited turbines struggle to produce more than 1/3 of
their rated capacity over a year, so think of that 2kW as more like 600W,
if your lucky.

At one point I would have thought alternative power was prohibitively
expensive but now it looks as though it may sense.

£1500 buys 18750kWhr of mains lecky at 8p/unit.

18750 / 0.6 = 31250 hrs, 1300 days, 3.5 years assuming a good site with
wind strong enough (and not too strong) to have the turbine generating
it's rated output for at least some of the time. You'll still be buying
mains power when the wind doesn't blow as well, you might be able to sell
a bit to the grid but not much.

Recovery of capital takes a long time, but not paying utility companies
for their (mainly) fossil based energy should not be ignored.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:49:57 +0100, R D S wrote:

I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge
runnning and keep a battery charged while camping.

It'll have to be a *big* (expensive) photovoltaic panel to run a fridge
even under bright sunlight conditions.

Not a caravan fridge!

Mary

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:49:57 +0100, R D S wrote:

I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge
runnning and keep a battery charged while camping.

It'll have to be a *big* (expensive) photovoltaic panel to run a fridge
even under bright sunlight conditions. Battery top up is practical against
self discharge and light use.

Also with energy prices being the way they are has anyone gone further
than this and installed solar in the home? Likewise with wind, a local
electrical supplier reckoned he could get me a 2kw turbine for approx
£1500.

Does that include the control gear, grid connect, invertor, etc etc. Bear
in mind that even well sited turbines struggle to produce more than 1/3 of
their rated capacity over a year, so think of that 2kW as more like 600W,
if your lucky.

At one point I would have thought alternative power was prohibitively
expensive but now it looks as though it may sense.

£1500 buys 18750kWhr of mains lecky at 8p/unit.

18750 / 0.6 = 31250 hrs, 1300 days, 3.5 years assuming a good site with
wind strong enough (and not too strong) to have the turbine generating
it's rated output for at least some of the time. You'll still be buying
mains power when the wind doesn't blow as well, you might be able to sell
a bit to the grid but not much.

Recovery of capital takes a long time, but not paying utility companies
for their (mainly) fossil based energy should not be ignored.

Do not assume a wind turbine will run maintenance free forever.
I wonder how much fossil fuel is used making a turbine?
Will it need planning permission?
I believe solar panels might have a bit more going for them.
If only there were a cheap way of storing some of the heat we have today.

In article ,
"Mary Fisher" writes:

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:49:57 +0100, R D S wrote:

I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge
runnning and keep a battery charged while camping.

It'll have to be a *big* (expensive) photovoltaic panel to run a fridge
even under bright sunlight conditions.

Not a caravan fridge!

Also, caravan fridges are often adsorption or peltier mechanism
(for dual fuel or dual voltage operation), neither of which are
as efficient as a conventional compressor fridge.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"R D S" wrote in message
...
I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge runnning
and keep a battery charged while camping.
Has anyone any experience/opinions?

Also with energy prices being the way they are has anyone gone further
than this and installed solar in the home? Likewise with wind, a local
electrical supplier reckoned he could get me a 2kw turbine for approx
£1500. At one point I would have thought alternative power was
prohibitively expensive but now it looks as though it may sense.

Is that 2kw per year?

Doesn't look like a good deal to me for £1500!

Seriously though, 2*24*365 seems like it should return 17,520kw with a
payback of around a year.

Empirical evidence suggests you will be lucky if you get 1,750kw.

tim

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...
We haven't a pv array although we're considering it but we do have a solar
dhw panel which is brilliant.

Which type do you have?

"R D S" wrote in message
...
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...
We haven't a pv array although we're considering it but we do have a
solar dhw panel which is brilliant.

Which type do you have?

Solartwin

R D S wrote:

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...
We haven't a pv array although we're considering it but we do have a solar
dhw panel which is brilliant.

Which type do you have?

The pointless cheapskate stupid version.

On Jul 27, 1:49*pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
* * * * "Mary Fisher" writes:



"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ill.net...
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:49:57 +0100, R D S wrote:

I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge
runnning and keep a battery charged while camping.

It'll have to be a *big* (expensive) photovoltaic panel to run a fridge
even under bright sunlight conditions.

Not a caravan fridge!

Also, caravan fridges are often adsorption or peltier mechanism
(for dual fuel or dual voltage operation), neither of which are
as efficient as a conventional compressor fridge.

If you're running this batteryless it'll have to be a peltier type, as
compressors can't be run off variable output panels.

Ammonia absorption fridges may be a better bet, as despite being
horribly inefficient they can be run off a thermal panel instead of
electrical, giving you a working system at a fraction the price. Flat
panel plus reflectors. Coldness storage is achieved by packing the
icebox with tetrapak cartons of milk, which being sealed and
sterilised won't spoil, and the freeze/thaw cycle gives good latent
heat (cold) storage. Means you cant use the frozen bit for anything of
course - and best label the cartons clearly in case some silly thinks
they're drinkable.


NT

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:41:59 +0100, Invisible Man wrote:

Do not assume a wind turbine will run maintenance free forever.
I wonder how much fossil fuel is used making a turbine?

Nothing runs maintenance free for ever and fossil fuels are used in the
manufacture/transport of everything as well.

Will it need planning permission?

Probably, at least one capable of producing any useful power.

I believe solar panels might have a bit more going for them.
If only there were a cheap way of storing some of the heat we have
today.

Heat bank or thermal store, ie a large tank of water heated by what ever
means to 80C.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 27 Jul 2008 12:49:56 GMT, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge
runnning and keep a battery charged while camping.

It'll have to be a *big* (expensive) photovoltaic panel to run a
fridge even under bright sunlight conditions.

Not a caravan fridge!

Also, caravan fridges are often adsorption or peltier mechanism
(for dual fuel or dual voltage operation), neither of which are
as efficient as a conventional compressor fridge.

And the cooler boxes that you plug into your ciggy lighter socket pull
about 10A @ 12v, 120W that's a big, expensive, photovoltaic panel.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?...97380&doy=27m7

"only £699.99 - on sale until 29/07/2008
SAVE £130.00 was £829.99"

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article et,
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On 27 Jul 2008 12:49:56 GMT, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge
runnning and keep a battery charged while camping.

It'll have to be a *big* (expensive) photovoltaic panel to run a
fridge even under bright sunlight conditions.

Not a caravan fridge!

Also, caravan fridges are often adsorption or peltier mechanism
(for dual fuel or dual voltage operation), neither of which are
as efficient as a conventional compressor fridge.
And the cooler boxes that you plug into your ciggy lighter socket pull
about 10A @ 12v, 120W

I have a couple and have serviced several for other people.
They all contain the same peltier device, which is rated
5.5A at car battery charging voltage. There maybe some
larger cool boxes with two devices in them.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

R D S said...
Also with energy prices being the way they are has anyone gone further than
this and installed solar in the home?

Yes. At our last house (SE Wales) we had solar panels in the roof for
heating water, and they were fabulous. It didn't need to be hot; it just
needed to be sunny for a couple of hours. The water was piping hot and
we rarely had to supplement the panels with the immersion heater.

Installation was expensive, and it would probably have taken us 5 to 10
years to recoup our outlay. We moved before that happened, and the solar
panels were a major selling point.

If I had the money now I'd do it again.

--
Fran
To email me see 'from' in headers; use your net know-how to find the
domain, and put my real name in front thereof.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:41:59 +0100, Invisible Man wrote:

Do not assume a wind turbine will run maintenance free forever.
I wonder how much fossil fuel is used making a turbine?

Nothing runs maintenance free for ever and fossil fuels are used in the
manufacture/transport of everything as well.

Will it need planning permission?

Probably, at least one capable of producing any useful power.

I believe solar panels might have a bit more going for them.
If only there were a cheap way of storing some of the heat we have
today.

Heat bank or thermal store, ie a large tank of water heated by what ever
means to 80C.

Might have got cold by February. I believe I did hear somewhere they
were pumping heat into the ground and recovering is later

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:49:57 +0100, "R D S" wrote:

I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge runnning
and keep a battery charged while camping.
Has anyone any experience/opinions?

How many solar panels would you need in addition to the deep cycle
batteries to run it and how much would it cost?

Also with energy prices being the way they are has anyone gone further than
this and installed solar in the home? Likewise with wind, a local electrical
supplier reckoned he could get me a 2kw turbine for approx £1500. At one
point I would have thought alternative power was prohibitively expensive but
now it looks as though it may sense.

Some bloke down south spent an absolute fortune installing a wind
turbine for his house and he doesn't generate enough electricity to
power a shaver.

You would have to calculate where you live, how much wind you're
likely to get (realistically) and whether that would generate enough
electricity to repay the costs of the turbine within a reasonable
timespace.

I read a post from a bloke however who did install a solar thermal
system, where its only used to heat water. He said he noticed a big
drop in his bills, maybe as much as a third. It did cost a heck of a
lot to install though and that's when he still did a lot of the work
himself and got a grant. Plus he will have to stay put for 20 odd
years for it to repay itself and have been worth it.

Have listened to the advice of another bloke regarding a solar
photovoltaic system and he said you may as well just burn £50 notes.

Maybe if energy prices go sky high a solar thermal system may become
an option for a lot of people. But you'd have to hope that the climate
isn't going into a cooling period and we start getting less sunshine,
and that it pays itself back a bit quicker.

If you're staying put for a long time in the same home I'd say to go
for it (solar thermal) if you have the money. In seven to ten years
though we may have more Nuclear power stations and prices will start
to fall again.

My personal opinion is that it's not worth it and the costs are just
too much at the moment for what you'll get back and how long it will
take to recoup the money.

John

Installing any alternative energy gadgets doesn't just give a financial
return (which isn't the reason most people do it anyway), it makes one aware
of helping the environment in other ways - by not squandering our resources.

Would be interesting to know the total costs for making a solar panel
not just for its useful life but from start to scrapping, as well as
how they are made and if that's good for the environment?

John

Recovery of capital takes a long time, but not paying utility companies
for their (mainly) fossil based energy should not be ignored.

There will be a big shift in the next ten years to power stations that
don't damage the environment are clean and generate enough electricity
for everyone i.e. Nuclear Power.

At the moment with rising prices for utilities and fuel people are
stuck between a rock and a hard place. We might have to cut our
electric and gas consumption in the next few years until more Nuclear
Power stations are built and prices come down.

John

"John" wrote in message
...

Installing any alternative energy gadgets doesn't just give a financial
return (which isn't the reason most people do it anyway), it makes one
aware
of helping the environment in other ways - by not squandering our
resources.

Would be interesting to know the total costs for making a solar panel
not just for its useful life but from start to scrapping, as well as
how they are made and if that's good for the environment?

John

Well you could same about power stations.

And for the pro nuclear brigade apparently it is going to cost about £76
billion to decomission all the old ones.

There is never going to be energy production without envionmental impact.

"John" wrote in message
...

Installing any alternative energy gadgets doesn't just give a financial
return (which isn't the reason most people do it anyway), it makes one
aware
of helping the environment in other ways - by not squandering our
resources.

Would be interesting to know the total costs for making a solar panel
not just for its useful life but from start to scrapping, as well as
how they are made and if that's good for the environment?

Would be interesting to know the same about a conventional boiler ...

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mary Fisher" writes:

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:49:57 +0100, R D S wrote:

I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge
runnning and keep a battery charged while camping.

It'll have to be a *big* (expensive) photovoltaic panel to run a fridge
even under bright sunlight conditions.

Not a caravan fridge!

Also, caravan fridges are often adsorption or peltier mechanism

And usually can be run of gas as well as electricity.

Mary

"R D S" wrote in message
...
I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge runnning
and keep a battery charged while camping.
Has anyone any experience/opinions?

Also with energy prices being the way they are has anyone gone further
than this and installed solar in the home? Likewise with wind, a local
electrical supplier reckoned he could get me a 2kw turbine for approx
£1500. At one point I would have thought alternative power was
prohibitively expensive but now it looks as though it may sense.


I would suggest a trip to a place called the Alternative Technology Centre
in Wales.
I first went in 1982 and have been every few years to watch the latest
developments.
from what I saw I would go for solar power as the size of wind turbines is
silly if
you want to power a house or charge batteries. Why not get a diesel
generator and
run it on old chip fat and vegetable oil - there is no law about it.
See some working demonstrations and years worth of research and data for
yourself.
The staff will also give more info and you get the latest info on
insulation.

Also watch out for the latest LED lightbulbs! They look the same as a
frosted one
but have a coating inside that is similar to what is inside a fluorescent
tube. A small
1watt UV LED causes it to light up a brilliant white. So you can imagine
what damage
this and other low energy devices are causing to power companies - that's
why they
are putting the price up. It's to reach the amount of profit they promised
customers now
that demand has fallen with people becoming more energy aware.

Philips make the bulb and I have tried some of them out. The 3watt one was
best!

"John" wrote in message
news

At the moment with rising prices for utilities and fuel people are
stuck between a rock and a hard place. We might have to cut our
electric and gas consumption in the next few years

I think that's the way to go.

Do we NEED all the power we use?? (as opposed to WANT)

Mary

"John" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:49:57 +0100, "R D S" wrote:

I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge runnning
and keep a battery charged while camping.
Has anyone any experience/opinions?

How many solar panels would you need in addition to the deep cycle
batteries to run it and how much would it cost?

Also with energy prices being the way they are has anyone gone further
than
this and installed solar in the home? Likewise with wind, a local
electrical
supplier reckoned he could get me a 2kw turbine for approx £1500. At one
point I would have thought alternative power was prohibitively expensive
but
now it looks as though it may sense.

Some bloke down south spent an absolute fortune installing a wind
turbine for his house and he doesn't generate enough electricity to
power a shaver.

Evidence?

You would have to calculate where you live, how much wind you're
likely to get (realistically) and whether that would generate enough
electricity to repay the costs of the turbine within a reasonable
timespace.

I read a post from a bloke however who did install a solar thermal
system, where its only used to heat water. He said he noticed a big
drop in his bills, maybe as much as a third. It did cost a heck of a
lot to install though and that's when he still did a lot of the work
himself and got a grant. Plus he will have to stay put for 20 odd
years for it to repay itself and have been worth it.

Not true. But payback isn't an issue.

Have listened to the advice of another bloke regarding a solar
photovoltaic system and he said you may as well just burn £50 notes.

Which people do every time they switch on lights or the tv of whatever.

"John" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:49:57 +0100, "R D S" wrote:

I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge runnning
and keep a battery charged while camping.
Has anyone any experience/opinions?

How many solar panels would you need in addition to the deep cycle
batteries to run it and how much would it cost?

I reckon I could do it (suitable for camping) for about 200 quid at Maplin.

Some bloke down south spent an absolute fortune installing a wind
turbine for his house and he doesn't generate enough electricity to
power a shaver.

You would have to calculate where you live, how much wind you're
likely to get (realistically) and whether that would generate enough
electricity to repay the costs of the turbine within a reasonable
timespace.

It is rather windy where I live, slates regularly shifting about on the
roof.

Maybe if energy prices go sky high a solar thermal system may become
an option for a lot of people. But you'd have to hope that the climate
isn't going into a cooling period and we start getting less sunshine,
and that it pays itself back a bit quicker.

Surely if we have a cooling period there will still be the same amount of
sunshine.

I'm toying with a DIY version.
http://www.iwilltry.org/w/index.php?...water_ heater

"R D S" wrote in message
...

Maybe if energy prices go sky high a solar thermal system may become
an option for a lot of people. But you'd have to hope that the climate
isn't going into a cooling period and we start getting less sunshine,
and that it pays itself back a bit quicker.

Surely if we have a cooling period there will still be the same amount of
sunshine.

That's right. The temperature isn't all that important. when we connected
ours up the air temperature was 4C and we got a large cylinder full of water
at over 30C in a few hours.

Mary

In message , John
writes

Recovery of capital takes a long time, but not paying utility companies
for their (mainly) fossil based energy should not be ignored.

There will be a big shift in the next ten years to power stations that
don't damage the environment are clean and generate enough electricity
for everyone i.e. Nuclear Power.

At the moment with rising prices for utilities and fuel people are
stuck between a rock and a hard place. We might have to cut our
electric and gas consumption in the next few years until more Nuclear
Power stations are built and prices come down.


and the award for stating the bleedin' obvious goes to ...


John



--
geoff

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 20:35:14 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

Some bloke down south spent an absolute fortune installing a wind
turbine for his house and he doesn't generate enough electricity to
power a shaver.

Evidence?

A very great deal. David Cameron for one.
Grand Designs several times.

We have been down this one many times as you well know.

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 20:35:14 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

Some bloke down south spent an absolute fortune installing a wind
turbine for his house and he doesn't generate enough electricity to
power a shaver.

Evidence?

http://www.warwickwindtrials.org.uk/8.html

http://www.warwickwindtrials.org.uk/...t+May+2008.pdf

The average energy produced per day is "lower than predicted". Across
all sites it amounts to 200Wh per day but 100Wh per day are consumed
by the controller. On many urban sites the controller consumed more
power than the windmill produced.

The NOABL predicted wind speed was optimistic by up to 64%.

There have been noise issues on some sites and quite a number of
equipment replacements

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:36:20 +0100, John wrote:

Would be interesting to know the total costs for making a solar panel
not just for its useful life but from start to scrapping, as well as
how they are made and if that's good for the environment?

What sort of "solar panel" are we talking about? Thermal or photvoltaic,
the latter I suspect has a massive enviromental production cost to make
the silicon wafers and the process required to turn them into photovoltaic
cells. End of life disposal may have toruble with the chemicals/elements
that make the cells.

A simple thermal solar panel probably isn't to bad dfor production and
there isn't a "nasty chemicals" problem at end of life. A vacuum tube
based panel won't be so good.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 27 Jul 2008 18:14:10 GMT, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I have a couple and have serviced several for other people. They all
contain the same peltier device, which is rated 5.5A at car battery
charging voltage. There maybe some larger cool boxes with two devices
in them.

Fairy Nuff, I was going from memory of reading the rating plates... Still
5.5A @ 14v is still the best part of 80W and bear in mind that 120W panel
will only do that in bright, full, sunshine... You'll probably still need
one that size to ensure that you have enough power when it's not full
bright sushine. And what about night time...

--
Cheers
Dave.

on a hot day there's a lot of work for a fridge to do,
a hippy friend of mine had his solar power fridge on all day
and got a few ice-cubes for gin at sunset

-- [george]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 21:01:40 UTC, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On 27 Jul 2008 18:14:10 GMT, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I have a couple and have serviced several for other people. They all
contain the same peltier device, which is rated 5.5A at car battery
charging voltage. There maybe some larger cool boxes with two devices
in them.

Fairy Nuff, I was going from memory of reading the rating plates... Still
5.5A @ 14v is still the best part of 80W and bear in mind that 120W panel
will only do that in bright, full, sunshine... You'll probably still need
one that size to ensure that you have enough power when it's not full
bright sushine. And what about night time...

Not much extra, but there's usually a fan as well.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 21:01:40 UTC, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On 27 Jul 2008 18:14:10 GMT, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I have a couple and have serviced several for other people. They all
contain the same peltier device, which is rated 5.5A at car battery
charging voltage. There maybe some larger cool boxes with two devices
in them.
Fairy Nuff, I was going from memory of reading the rating plates... Still
5.5A @ 14v is still the best part of 80W and bear in mind that 120W panel
will only do that in bright, full, sunshine... You'll probably still need
one that size to ensure that you have enough power when it's not full
bright sushine. And what about night time...

Not much extra, but there's usually a fan as well.

I have a small wine fridge that uses this type of cooler and fan. Rated
about 75W IIRC. The main limitation is it can only drop about 15 degrees
below ambient - which means it is only going down to 10 or 11 degrees at
the moment.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

R D S wrote:

I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge runnning
and keep a battery charged while camping.
Has anyone any experience/opinions?

Perhaps, but will need a fairly serious panel...

Also with energy prices being the way they are has anyone gone further than
this and installed solar in the home? Likewise with wind, a local electrical
supplier reckoned he could get me a 2kw turbine for approx £1500. At one
point I would have thought alternative power was prohibitively expensive but
now it looks as though it may sense.

That is far less likely to pay off alas. The 2kW will be the maximum
output of the turbine - probably at a wind speed of 12 m/sec. There are
few places in the uk that average half that. Remember also that the
power you can recover will be proportional to the *cube* of the wind
speed. So halving the wind speed on a 2kW turbine will reduce the output
to 500W or so. Note also that they work best with smooth air flow with
little gusting and turbulence - which rules them out in most urban
environments.

Solar thermal is usually your best bet in the UK if you DIY and build
mostly from scrap. You need to chose carefully what to do with the
energy though. Charging a heat bank or heating a swimming pool are
probably the most useful. Lots of people go for domestic hot water
systems, but unless you spend vast amounts on hot water it seems
unlikely you will make any return. (most people spend less than 30% of
their total heating costs on hot water).



--
Cheers,

John.

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Mary Fisher wrote:

I read a post from a bloke however who did install a solar thermal
system, where its only used to heat water. He said he noticed a big
drop in his bills, maybe as much as a third. It did cost a heck of a
lot to install though and that's when he still did a lot of the work
himself and got a grant. Plus he will have to stay put for 20 odd
years for it to repay itself and have been worth it.

Not true. But payback isn't an issue.

Says who? If it never pays back in financial terms, there is a fair
chance it will never pay back in environment ones either.

At my previous house, I estimate my annual hot water costs were about
£100. Say a solar system could save me 70% of those costs over the year
- it would take ten years to recover the costs if the system cost £700.
Many of the commercial systems cost more than double that.

A system put together from scrap radiators etc may work out ok if you
can keep the capital costs low and can afford to donate the time etc.


--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:49:57 +0100, R D S wrote:

I have been thinking about getting a solar panel to keep a fridge
runnning and keep a battery charged while camping.

It'll have to be a *big* (expensive) photovoltaic panel to run a fridge
even under bright sunlight conditions.

Not a caravan fridge!

That depends if it's a peltier type which uses a lot of power or the more
expensive but lower consumption compressor type.


--
Chris, (on tour)
Intellect is invisible to the man who has none.
Schopenhauer

"Paul P" wrote in message
...

...Why not get a diesel generator and
run it on old chip fat and vegetable oil - there is no law
about it.

Oh, but there are laws that cover how you obtain such fuel. I
very much doubt that even a large family would generate enough of
its own waste oil to run a generator - so we are into the realms
of collecting waste from commercial users, such as chip shops. In
order to do that legally, in the UK, you need a waste transfer
licence from the Environment Agency. The supplier commits an
offence if they allow you to carry the waste oil without a
licence, and you commit an offence if you take it without said
licence.

--
MatSav