Vortex wrote:
Confess I went for Vista. I must be the only person on the planet who
is impressed. Especially imporessed with "Media Center" capability
using a Freeview card. When 2nd generation "Media Center Extender"
boxes are available shortly, I'll be buying one.

I had a dalliance with Linux a few years ago, and concluded that life's
too short.

D


Media center (sic) may be the "Killer App" that makes people want Vista.
I too have heard it's pretty good.

Andy

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2008-01-05, Doki wrote:

"Vortex" wrote in message
...

I had a dalliance with Linux a few years ago, and concluded that life's
too short.

Bang on. After having Ubuntu, which is supposed to work out of the box
not
work out of the box on three systems, I decided there's no point messing
around with it. I've got enough things to do without spending time making
a
PC work.

That's exactly how I feel.

About Windows.

You're all confusing familiarity with ease of use.

TBH I couldn't give a toss if it's idiosyncratic and illogical (which
Windows' interface pretty much is), but I know how to use it. I've not got
the time to invest in learning how to configure a system that *seems* to do
everything arse about tit. The fact that to make things work I have to start
editing text files with arcane names a lot of the time shows you how far
behind Linux is. It might be consistent but it's not familiar or quick to
learn.

In article ,
Huge writes:

Very limited numbers, given that I signed up for it and never got a response.
(And yes, the delivery address was in the US.)

I thought I'd heard they are now caught by a patent challenge
in the US, and being a non-profit organisation with no funds,
they're not really in a position to challenge it.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 2008-01-05 16:52:09 +0000, Huge said:

On 2008-01-05, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-01-05 12:10:33 +0000, Huge said:

On 2008-01-05, Andy Hall wrote:

Tried Gnome? This seems to be a bit lighter weight.

Aaaeeeiiiii!!!! That's the first time I've ever heard anyone describe Gnome as
"lighter weight"!!

Compared with KDE with all the bits?

Dunno. Never tried KDE. But GNOME is *huge*.


KDE seems to take quite a bit longer than Gnome to load up after login
which is one thing that I care about for a desktop machine. Most
recently I did this with FC8 as a comparison. It may be that Gnome
uses more memory - I didn't check that, but then I always make sure to
have plenty anyway.

On 2008-01-05 17:38:28 +0000, Lobster said:

Mark wrote:

I think I will do a straw pole in the pub tonight just to see if Joe
public has the faintest idea about Ubuntu/Linux

Well I'll be honest and tell you that I do know what Linux is but have
never ever seen it, and that I'd never heard of Ubuntu until this
afternoon...

What happens if you need to share files (or even view them?) with any
of the other 99% of the world who uses MS Office, for example?
Presumably any of these OS are a non-starter, surely?

David

No they are not. You can use packages such as OpenOffice which offer
good compatibility for almost everything. The only area that is weak
is support for Visual Basic macros, but I have never seen them commonly
used by anybody with whom I do business.

One large advantage of Linux is its far greater stability than anything
from Microsoft - i.e. it's a proper operating system.

There are different distributions of Linux with different emphases.

Much info. here plus links:


http://distrowatch.com/


Ubuntu has become a popular distribution because it has good hardware
support, is easy to install and comss with a rich set of software
included; plus there is good language support.

On 6 Jan 2008 12:54:17 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2008-01-06, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Huge writes:

Very limited numbers, given that I signed up for it and never got a response.
(And yes, the delivery address was in the US.)

I thought I'd heard they are now caught by a patent challenge
in the US, and being a non-profit organisation with no funds,
they're not really in a position to challenge it.

Wouldn't surprise me. The whole thing seems to be falling apart. Yet another
reason to hate Bill Gates.

The patent challenge is from a Nigerian/Massachusetts company.
http://www.linux.org//news/2007/11/29/0010.html



--
Regards, Paul Herber, Sandrila Ltd.
Electrical for Visio http://www.electrical.sandrila.co.uk/

On 06/01/2008 12:42, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I thought I'd heard they are now caught by a patent challenge
in the US, and being a non-profit organisation with no funds,
they're not really in a position to challenge it.

Unless there's *another* patent challenge, it's in Nigeria, IANAL but it
sounds like has not leg to stand on.

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...80103211653578

Also the product was pretty well done and dusted *before* Intel joined
the circus, so them leaving will just mean they are competing from
without the tent, rather than within.

In article , Huge
scribeth thus
On 2008-01-06, Doki wrote:

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2008-01-05, Doki wrote:

"Vortex" wrote in message
...

I had a dalliance with Linux a few years ago, and concluded that life's
too short.

Bang on. After having Ubuntu, which is supposed to work out of the box
not
work out of the box on three systems, I decided there's no point messing
around with it. I've got enough things to do without spending time making
a
PC work.

That's exactly how I feel.

About Windows.

You're all confusing familiarity with ease of use.

TBH I couldn't give a toss if it's idiosyncratic and illogical (which
Windows' interface pretty much is), but I know how to use it.

That's my point.

I've not got
the time to invest in learning how to configure a system that *seems* to do
everything arse about tit.

Which is how I feel about Windows.

The fact that to make things work I have to start
editing text files with arcane names a lot of the time shows you how far
behind Linux is.

"Behind"? Tee-hee.

He hasn't tried Vista yet;!...

or rather hasn't undergone -trial by Vista-;(...

It might be consistent but it's not familiar

To you. Ergo, the porblem is not with the O/S itself, but with the user(s).



--
Tony Sayer

On 06/01/2008 13:29, Andy Burns wrote:

[intel] leaving will just mean they are competing from
without the tent, rather than within.

Sorry, I forgot the URL
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/05/te...pagewanted=all

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:51:19 GMT, Cicero
wrote:


Over the past dozen years I've tried several Linux versions and found them
difficult and temperamental.

nods

Ubuntu is quite different from other
versions. I first tried it (Live CD) about a year ago and it found all my
hardware immediately and without any problems.

Likewise (mostly and much much better than most others).

I then did a full install
as 'dual boot' with Win2000 and again it worked perfectly first time.

Similar, mine was XP.

The
only exception was that it failed to operate my wireless network card
despite the fact that it was found and recognised. I've since repeated the
process on my other three computers (2 x MSI / 2 x Asus based), again
without any problems except the wireless network cards which isn't a
problem as I have a wired network which works perfectly with Ubuntu.

It worked ok on a Toshiba laptop (but again only seeing 1 USB wireless
device out of several PCMCIA WiFi cards etc) but had real issues on a
Dell (that is 100% rock solid with XP).

I'm now in the last stages of final transfer / conversion of old material
from Windows based software to fully Linux based software and I will
probably make Linux my only OS when this process is complete.

I was hoping I could have that setup on at least 1 machine (probably a
laptop) and to get there painlessly I have 3 removable drives I can
use with the Tosh (as Ubuntu worked on that), XP, Vista and Gutsy
Gibbon. After getting most things going on the Linux (not easy and
often VERY frustrating / illogical) email, newreaders, flash etc etc
I find I never use it, because there are so many other bit's of kit I
need it to talk to (gps's, transceiver config software etc) and many
Windows only software packages (and I don't want to arse about with
VM's etc) it still doesn't actually make the grade. Vista has yet to
excite or impress me (although it doesn't have as many unresolved
issues as the Linux solution [1]).

When our daughter switches a machine on in her room it's the PC 99% of
the time (not the Mac next to it) and when she borrows the Tosh she
first checks the XP drive is in there (and it invariably is) but will
use both the Linux or Vista solutions if she just intends to do a
quick bit of web browsing (ie not MSN / Cam etc).

I would suggest that anyone with an interest in a free OS should try the
'Live' Ubuntu CD to see how well it works. It will be slow but will show
how well the full version will work. Dual boot is always an option and
Ubuntu manages this very well.

Agreed, if you are *interested* in something else, for the fun of it
that's a good idea (although I'd go for a caddy drive rather than dual
boot, just_in_case) or if you have an under (Windows) spec machine you
just want as an Internet window then also (probably) ok.

All the best ..

T i m

[1] Not to say many / all my Linux issues couldn't easily be resolved
by someone who knows what they are doing.

In article ,
Andy Burns writes:

Unless there's *another* patent challenge, it's in Nigeria, IANAL but it
sounds like has not leg to stand on.

Technically they may or may not have a leg to stand on,
but that's never very relevant in patent cases, which are
more about who's got more money to pay lawyers, and OLPC
doesn't have any money.

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...80103211653578

Some of the statements in that show a remarkable lack of
knowledge of patent cases, such as claiming you are using
public domain techniques so you can't be violating a patent.

Also the product was pretty well done and dusted *before* Intel joined
the circus, so them leaving will just mean they are competing from
without the tent, rather than within.

Actually, I hadn't realised Intel had ever joined in until
I read that. I know they weren't part of the project during
the design stages -- their components were too expensive to
build the laptop within price, and they were producing a
competing product at the time.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 2008-01-06 12:54:17 +0000, Huge said:

On 2008-01-06, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Huge writes:

Very limited numbers, given that I signed up for it and never got a response.
(And yes, the delivery address was in the US.)

I thought I'd heard they are now caught by a patent challenge
in the US, and being a non-profit organisation with no funds,
they're not really in a position to challenge it.

Wouldn't surprise me. The whole thing seems to be falling apart. Yet another
reason to hate Bill Gates.

I read an article in one of the Linux magazines on the plane yesterday
which discussed Microsoft's tactics in connection with a deal in
Nigeria where Mandriva had won the software business.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11...steve_ballmer/

The

last line says:

We have no doubt that the company has "a strong relationship with the
government in Nigeria."


However, a few days later.....


http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/20...from-microsoft

On 06/01/2008 14:13, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Some of the statements in that show a remarkable lack of
knowledge of patent cases

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm assuming a local Nigerian representative will
have had relatively little cause to mount a similar defence? If they are
strapped for cash, maybe that can't afford much better.

Actually, I hadn't realised Intel had ever joined in until
I read that.

No doubt their $6m was welcome, but I bet it came with a lot of pressure
to use Intel chips instead of AMD (and probably indirectly to use M$
instead of linux) for an OLPC2.

they were producing a competing product at the time.

And the final straw seems to have been when Intel tried to "turn" a
Peruvian order for 270,000 OLPCs into a Classmate order.

Huge wrote:
On 2008-01-05, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
tony sayer writes:
In article , Andrew Gabriel
scribeth thus
There's an opensource product called OpenOffice which can read/write
Microsoft office documents, and there are commercial versions of it
such as StarOffice (which it originally came from) from Sun. This
runs on all the popular unixs, Linux, and Windows. I put StarOffice
on my Mum's Windows PC a couple of years ago, and although she's only
a novice PC user, I don't think she has any idea she's not running
Microsoft Office (except things like macro viruses don't work on her
system when they do on all her colleagues':-).
Openoffice doesn't always open Word docs as the Microsnot program does....
I've not noticed any differences with StarOffice 8 (or 7, IIRC).
Previous versions didn't always get some things like positioning
of tables right, although document was always readable even so.

Must admit I haven't tried OpenOffice, only StarOffice, but they're
supposed to be very similar, based on mostly the same code.

I do all my work with OpenOffice 2.3 (*), and before that with StarOffice 7 (I
think). I'm the only non-Windows person in my office. None of them have ever
noticed. None of them have ever complained about being unable to open my
documents. I have never been unable to open their documents. All is copacetic.

Blimey - 'copacetic' - there's my new word for the day. Apparently it's
been used just once before in the archived history of this newsgroup -
by Mr Mike Ring in 2001.

David

What's the system you were after? Have a look at www.dmxdimension.com
- they list all the latest offers generally available (via click-
through links but they're quite open about it).

I've been AFK for a couple of days, but a small note on this - I was
able to configure a machine via this with 1Gb memory and 160Gb HD for
only ** £87 ** +VAT and delivery (without monitor) - I posted the
details on alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains the other day...

In article ,
Lobster wrote:
Blimey - 'copacetic' - there's my new word for the day. Apparently it's
been used just once before in the archived history of this newsgroup -
by Mr Mike Ring in 2001.

And the UK dictionary and spellchecker I have on this machine doesn't
recognise it...

http://www.nexistepas.com/enthuse/in...tag/copacetic/

--
*Why is the word abbreviation so long? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

Blimey - 'copacetic' - there's my new word for the day. Apparently it's
been used just once before in the archived history of this newsgroup -
by Mr Mike Ring in 2001.

And the UK dictionary and spellchecker I have on this machine doesn't
recognise it...

http://www.nexistepas.com/enthuse/in...tag/copacetic/

My 'dead tree' (Collins) dictionary has it and claims it is US and
Canadian slang. The title page has disappeared but I think this one was
from some time in the 80s.

--
Roger Chapman

Roger wrote:
The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

Blimey - 'copacetic' - there's my new word for the day. Apparently it's
been used just once before in the archived history of this newsgroup -
by Mr Mike Ring in 2001.

And the UK dictionary and spellchecker I have on this machine doesn't
recognise it...

http://www.nexistepas.com/enthuse/in...tag/copacetic/

My 'dead tree' (Collins) dictionary has it and claims it is US and
Canadian slang. The title page has disappeared but I think this one was
from some time in the 80s.

or older:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/Copacetic+

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

The message
from John Rumm contains these words:

My 'dead tree' (Collins) dictionary has it and claims it is US and
Canadian slang. The title page has disappeared but I think this one was
from some time in the 80s.

or older:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/Copacetic+

Sorry for the ambiguity. The 80s date related to my dictionary which in
turn merely claims 20th century and of unknown origin.

--
Roger Chapman

On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 15:14:35 GMT, Lobster
wrote:


I do all my work with OpenOffice 2.3 (*), and before that with StarOffice 7 (I
think). I'm the only non-Windows person in my office. None of them have ever
noticed. None of them have ever complained about being unable to open my
documents. I have never been unable to open their documents. All is copacetic.

Blimey - 'copacetic' - there's my new word for the day. Apparently it's
been used just once before in the archived history of this newsgroup -
by Mr Mike Ring in 2001.

I worked with Micheal O' Ringo (as we called him) in 1969.

Bear in mind he'd trained to be a Vicar, and "Copacetic" seems to be a
descendant of the Hebrew phrase "hakol beseder".

Or as the Na^^^ Germans would have it "Alles in ordnung"

DG

On 05 Jan 2008 18:08:04 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

What happens if you need to share files (or even view them?) with any of
the other 99% of the world who uses MS Office, for example? Presumably
any of these OS are a non-starter, surely?

There's an opensource product called OpenOffice which can read/write
Microsoft office documents, and there are commercial versions of it
such as StarOffice (which it originally came from) from Sun.

A private user doesn't usually benefit from the commercial versions,
only one or two obscure copyright features (filters and fonts IIRC)
have been included out.

This
runs on all the popular unixs, Linux, and Windows. I put StarOffice
on my Mum's Windows PC a couple of years ago, and although she's only
a novice PC user, I don't think she has any idea she's not running
Microsoft Office (except things like macro viruses don't work on her
system when they do on all her colleagues':-).

There's more to it than that. A lot of the keyboard shortcuts are
different. It doesn't bother me but my kids were taught Micro $$oft
Office at school / work and it keeps tripping them up.

I tell them at 32 / 21 it's about time for them to fu** off and buy
their own place and their own computers and software and then they can
pick and choose to their hearts content.

DG

Lobster wrote:

What happens if you need to share files (or even view them?) with any of
the other 99% of the world who uses MS Office, for example? Presumably
any of these OS are a non-starter, surely?

Umm no, you run OpenOffice which is actually more compatible with
Word/Excel/PowerPoint than is the current version of Microsoft Office
with the latest Service Pack. You also have some security in knowing
that the OpenOffice developers do a lot of testing, frequent patch
releases to fix problems reported by users, and don't just maintain, but
continuously expand backwards compatability. MS OTOH have just removed
all backwards compatability, so if you want to open an old document
you're stuffed.

Of course since OpenOffice is cross platform you can ditch MS Office and
run OO instead even under Windows. I you have a Mac then NeoOffice is
the Mac port of OO. I've used it for a couple of years, and Windows/MS
Office using clients haven't even noticed that their documents are
received, edited and sent back using a different package to the one they
expect.

The Medway Handyman wrote:


Am I better off leaving them well alone?

In brief, yes.

If you want a good computer and you don't understand computers much, go
and buy an iMac. It will do most of what you want straight out of the
box. If you want to do MS Office stuff install Neo Office which is free.

Dell also fare badly in terms of delivery, reliability and availability
(that last one as you discovered).

http://preview.tinyurl.com/33p2zm

If you want a good computer and you don't understand computers much, go
and buy an iMac. It will do most of what you want straight out of the
box. If you want to do MS Office stuff install Neo Office which is free.

Yep. I switched to Mac's 4 years ago after 15 odd years of PC's. Best
thing I ever did. Miles better.

--
Nige Danton

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 08:46:42 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

Visions of John with his underpants on the outside of his trousers
going around all the PC stores and installing Linux on all of their
display systems - saving them from themselves. :-)

Heh heh! it did occur to me .... maybe just to leave knoppix liveCDs in
their disc trays.


Tried Gnome? This seems to be a bit lighter weight.

Yes and chucked it out. If I wanted lighter weight at all costs I'd learn
to use xfce or suchlike. I wanted usability: I've spent too long learning
the Windoze[1] way of doing things to want to learn a different one[2] and
kde wasn't so heavyweight that it was a showstopper.

[1] windoze classic: when I was thrown into a pit of XP machines the first
thing I did was customise them to the classic 9X/NT/XP look'n'feel. Never
did like teletubbies :-)

[2] unless I can see that it's really worth the effort.


--
John Stumbles

Dell also fare badly in terms of delivery, reliability and availability

Availability is subject to outside forces beyond their control, but my
experience with delivery and reliability is 100% perfect.

Not only me, but everyone else I know who's bought a Dell machine
(some have bought several), which number perhaps another 6 or 7 people
in our office alone, have had similar experiences - not a faulty
machine amongst any of them in the last 3 years.

On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 01:04:39 GMT, John Stumbles
wrote:

[1] windoze classic: when I was thrown into a pit of XP machines the first
thing I did was customise them to the classic 9X/NT/XP look'n'feel. Never
did like teletubbies :-)

I call 'em Bellytubbies :-)

DG

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 00:42:31 +0000, (Steve Firth)
wrote:

snip

Dell also fare badly in terms of delivery, reliability and availability
(that last one as you discovered).

http://preview.tinyurl.com/33p2zm


Which is absolute crap - most surveys in the UK totally contradict
what you say - I guess that is why you had to quote some obscure US
web site.

andywells wrote:

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 00:42:31 +0000, (Steve Firth)
wrote:

snip

Dell also fare badly in terms of delivery, reliability and availability
(that last one as you discovered).

http://preview.tinyurl.com/33p2zm


Which is absolute crap

No it's not, and I provided evidence to the contrary.

- most surveys in the UK totally contradict what you say - I guess that is
why you had to quote some obscure US web site.

I didn't have to quote that survey nor is it obscure. You OTOH are an
unmitigated arse.

Huge wrote:

The one Windows machine I actually own, which is in reality my wife's, is
due to be replaced by a Mac in short order.

It may be a good idea to lengthen that short order. There's a whole raft
of news Mac stuff due out at Macworld. The rumour mill is in full flow,
but the likely new machines include an ultra-mobile with 64Gb of SSD
drive, a Mac "nano" like the mini but about half the height and several
otehr rumoured bits of stuff as well as speed/memory/specification bumps
for the established stuff.

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 11:15:27 -0000, "Doki" wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.

Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a
good
deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.

Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.

A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.

Am I better off leaving them well alone?

If you're talking about a desktop why not build one? You'll save some
money, get a machine that is exactly as you want it and know how to fix it
if it goes wrong. I did this for my first ever PC about a year ago.

There's no money to be saved. Buying parts that I actually trust rather than
the absolute cheapest stuff available, I couldn't get near Dell's retail
prices.

It varies a lot IME. Sometimes I can build a PC from good quality
parts for less money than a retail system (like I did last year). I
tend to find that the big companies such as Dell tend to overspec the
processor compared to the other components fitted leading to a more
expensive than necessary system.

"Proper" retail PCs as built by Dell, HP and the likes have major
advantages over the home built machine - you have zero compatibility
problems (IIRC Dell test every permutation of machine they sell), and the
machines are almost silent.

I have experienced problems with HP systems due to buggy drivers .

Even machines I've built specifically to be quiet are nowhere near as quiet
as this Dell is.

YMMV again. My current homebuilt PC is quieter than anything else I
have experienced. I can hear the HD seeking if the room is very
quiet, otherwise it is inaudible.

If it breaks, it's not your problem, and you get all your licenced software
chucked in.

Theoretically it's not your problem, but it is usually less hassle to
sort it out oneself than try to explain the problem to a droid in a
call centre the other side of the world. A return to base warranty is
useless if you need the PC every day.

You often get licensed software chucked in but usually alongside
trialware that won't uninstall.

Before someone starts beating me with the Linux stick, I've been meddling with it since
Redhat 5 was current, and whilst Ubuntu is a long way from Redhat 5, it's
still not really suitable for someone who wants to do a lot of different
bits and bobs on their computer without a lot of hassle. It's perfect for my
Dad as all he wants is a screen with Ebay on it, which will never break once
it's been set up, but for serious day to day use it's a pain the arse.

Linux is not for the fainthearted but is worth perservering with IMHO.

IME Dell's service is good, if you know your way around a computer already.
If you don't, then it's not going to be very helpful, but then no phone
support ever really will be, but Dell's is compounded by being based in
India, making misunderstandings more likely.

And franky, the idea that "you'll know how to fix it" doesn't really make
any odds - if you can use a screwdriver, you can swap parts in a PC, and
95% of PC problems are with software, not hardware.

To the OP: Dell is no worse than anyone else IME and has the advantage
that they will sell you a PC with XP or Linux instead of Vista. You
would need a much higher spec. PC to run Vista satifactorally than you
would with XP. Spend the money you save on DIY ;-)

M.

Mark wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 11:15:27 -0000, "Doki" wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.
Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a
good
deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.
Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.
A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.
Am I better off leaving them well alone?
If you're talking about a desktop why not build one? You'll save some
money, get a machine that is exactly as you want it and know how to fix it
if it goes wrong. I did this for my first ever PC about a year ago.
There's no money to be saved. Buying parts that I actually trust rather than
the absolute cheapest stuff available, I couldn't get near Dell's retail
prices.

It varies a lot IME. Sometimes I can build a PC from good quality
parts for less money than a retail system (like I did last year). I
tend to find that the big companies such as Dell tend to overspec the
processor compared to the other components fitted leading to a more
expensive than necessary system.

"Proper" retail PCs as built by Dell, HP and the likes have major
advantages over the home built machine - you have zero compatibility
problems (IIRC Dell test every permutation of machine they sell), and the
machines are almost silent.

I have experienced problems with HP systems due to buggy drivers .

Even machines I've built specifically to be quiet are nowhere near as quiet
as this Dell is.

YMMV again. My current homebuilt PC is quieter than anything else I
have experienced. I can hear the HD seeking if the room is very
quiet, otherwise it is inaudible.

If it breaks, it's not your problem, and you get all your licenced software
chucked in.

Theoretically it's not your problem, but it is usually less hassle to
sort it out oneself than try to explain the problem to a droid in a
call centre the other side of the world. A return to base warranty is
useless if you need the PC every day.

You often get licensed software chucked in but usually alongside
trialware that won't uninstall.

Before someone starts beating me with the Linux stick, I've been meddling with it since
Redhat 5 was current, and whilst Ubuntu is a long way from Redhat 5, it's
still not really suitable for someone who wants to do a lot of different
bits and bobs on their computer without a lot of hassle. It's perfect for my
Dad as all he wants is a screen with Ebay on it, which will never break once
it's been set up, but for serious day to day use it's a pain the arse.

Linux is not for the fainthearted but is worth perservering with IMHO.

IME Dell's service is good, if you know your way around a computer already.
If you don't, then it's not going to be very helpful, but then no phone
support ever really will be, but Dell's is compounded by being based in
India, making misunderstandings more likely.

And franky, the idea that "you'll know how to fix it" doesn't really make
any odds - if you can use a screwdriver, you can swap parts in a PC, and
95% of PC problems are with software, not hardware.

To the OP: Dell is no worse than anyone else IME and has the advantage
that they will sell you a PC with XP or Linux instead of Vista. You
would need a much higher spec. PC to run Vista satifactorally than you
would with XP. Spend the money you save on DIY ;-)

M.

I hear HSBC have just upgraded their system to XP. I guess they don't
fancy being Vista guinea pigs

"Lobster" wrote in message
news

Well I'll be honest and tell you that I do know what Linux is but have
never ever seen it, and that I'd never heard of Ubuntu until this
afternoon...

What happens if you need to share files (or even view them?) with any of
the other 99% of the world who uses MS Office, for example? Presumably
any of these OS are a non-starter, surely?


If you would like to try Ubuntu or Kubuntu you can request a Free CD from

https://shipit.ubuntu.com/

you don't have to install it to try it out, it will run from the CD, but
slowly.

Or download it for free 700MB

http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download

Or buy one on ebay for £1.50

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Linux-Ubuntu-3...mZ140194241333









-

On Jan 5, 6:08*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
* *Lobster wrote:

What happens if you need to share files (or even view them?) with any of
the other 99% of the world who uses MS Office, for example? *Presumably
any of these OS are a non-starter, surely?

Those '99%' should share files using a universal file format like plain
text. Same as newsgroups, etc. But this doesn't suit the likes of BG who
wishes to tie up the world into his expensive systems.

But what about sharing files from the same location on disc on a dual
boot machine?

MBQ

On Jan 5, 11:04*pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
* * * * tony sayer writes:

In article , Andrew Gabriel
scribeth thus
There's an opensource product called OpenOffice which can read/write
Microsoft office documents, and there are commercial versions of it
such as StarOffice (which it originally came from) from Sun. This
runs on all the popular unixs, Linux, and Windows. I put StarOffice
on my Mum's Windows PC a couple of years ago, and although she's only
a novice PC user, I don't think she has any idea she's not running
Microsoft Office (except things like macro viruses don't work on her
system when they do on all her colleagues':-).

Openoffice doesn't always open Word docs as the Microsnot program does.....

I've not noticed any differences with StarOffice 8 (or 7, IIRC).
Previous versions didn't always get some things like positioning
of tables right, although document was always readable even so.

Must admit I haven't tried OpenOffice, only StarOffice, but they're
supposed to be very similar, based on mostly the same code.

Everytime I try to switch to Open Office I seem to find a new
incompatibility. Latest is trying to put a table of contents in a two
column layout. Works fine in Office but open the doc in OpenOffice and
it reverts to a single column and screws the layout.

Luckily I get the full MS Office Pro for about £30 through the home
use program for as long as I stay with my current employer.

MBQ

On Jan 5, 3:33*pm, "tim....." wrote:
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message

...

In article ,
"Doki" writes:
95% of PC problems are with software, not hardware.

That's an issue with only one particular manufacturer's software.

I don't agree. *95% of problems with software are because of the inability
of the user. *If those 95% of uses who are unable to use software properly
had Linux installed, it would go wong for them as often as Windows does.

applause

In article
,
Man at B&Q wrote:
What happens if you need to share files (or even view them?) with
any of the other 99% of the world who uses MS Office, for example?
Presumably any of these OS are a non-starter, surely?

Those '99%' should share files using a universal file format like
plain text. Same as newsgroups, etc. But this doesn't suit the likes
of BG who wishes to tie up the world into his expensive systems.

But what about sharing files from the same location on disc on a dual
boot machine?

That's not 99% of the world. What you share on your own network etc is
your choice. What I was referring to was the habit of sending Word files
when plain text would do just fine.

--
*Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:33:25 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article
,
Man at B&Q wrote:
What happens if you need to share files (or even view them?) with
any of the other 99% of the world who uses MS Office, for example?
Presumably any of these OS are a non-starter, surely?

Those '99%' should share files using a universal file format like
plain text. Same as newsgroups, etc. But this doesn't suit the likes
of BG who wishes to tie up the world into his expensive systems.

But what about sharing files from the same location on disc on a dual
boot machine?

That's not 99% of the world. What you share on your own network etc is
your choice. What I was referring to was the habit of sending Word files
when plain text would do just fine.

Well, plain text can be a bit poxy.

But wordpad files (.rtf) can be read on all (?) windows boxes, and I'd
imagine on most unix clones.

DG

Steve Firth wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:


Am I better off leaving them well alone?

In brief, yes.

If you want a good computer and you don't understand computers much,
go and buy an iMac. It will do most of what you want straight out of
the box. If you want to do MS Office stuff install Neo Office which
is free.

Dell also fare badly in terms of delivery, reliability and
availability (that last one as you discovered).

http://preview.tinyurl.com/33p2zm

I know most here will sob at the thought, but I'm fairly happy with
Microsoft - because I don't know anything else.

Most of the time my PC is fine & does what I want it to do. I have no real
idea how it does it, buy I know how to drive it.

Having said that Norton 360 won't run Antispam because there is some sort of
conflict, but I expect **** from software. I wouldn't put up with it with
any other product, but you don't seem to have a choice with software.

Thanks for the advice though.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

In article , The
Medway Handyman scribeth thus
Steve Firth wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:


Am I better off leaving them well alone?

In brief, yes.

If you want a good computer and you don't understand computers much,
go and buy an iMac. It will do most of what you want straight out of
the box. If you want to do MS Office stuff install Neo Office which
is free.

Dell also fare badly in terms of delivery, reliability and
availability (that last one as you discovered).

http://preview.tinyurl.com/33p2zm

I know most here will sob at the thought, but I'm fairly happy with
Microsoft - because I don't know anything else.

Most of the time my PC is fine & does what I want it to do. I have no real
idea how it does it, buy I know how to drive it.

Having said that Norton 360 won't run Antispam because there is some sort of
conflict, but I expect **** from software. I wouldn't put up with it with
any other product, but you don't seem to have a choice with software.

Thanks for the advice though.



Yes you do!. Ditch the Norton anti virus if you have that and use AVG
much better

And as to spam .. a lot of its filtered off now by a good ISP. And if
your using Thunderbird you can block a fair old bit of it....

--
Tony Sayer