I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.

Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a good
deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.

Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.

A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.

Am I better off leaving them well alone?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
.uk...
I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.
Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a
good deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.
Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.
A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.
Am I better off leaving them well alone?
Dave - The Medway Handyman
Dave,
have you looked at the LaptopRepairShop by the Tiger Moth / Toys-R-Us ?
They sometimes have interesting deals, and my experiences there have been
good.
AFAIK Dell are OK, as long as you don't want to upgrade the PC much.
Personal experience has been at work, where they must have given a good deal
on large numbers of PC,
and repairing laptops, which are prone to the power socket failing (repair
is resolder socket, cheap but takes time).
We recently bought a few from Misco, cheap and cheerful, but OK since we
didn't need to modify.
CCL Computers, Dabs, Scan, Novatech seem OK generally.
PC World might be worth a look, they sometimes have bargains - but be sure
you know what you are getting.
Have you thought about getting one custom made ? The bare-bone systems are
sometimes worth a look.
hth
Neil
(not far away in Walderslade!)

Neil wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message .uk...
I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable
about computers, hence the question.
Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed
like a good deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.
Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site
later I still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.
A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.
Am I better off leaving them well alone?
Dave - The Medway Handyman

Dave,
have you looked at the LaptopRepairShop by the Tiger Moth / Toys-R-Us ?
They sometimes have interesting deals, and my experiences there have been
good.

That place that was BJM Power Tools? Opposite Homebase? Bought a Makita
router there about 20 years ago - still use it.

Thanks I'll pop in, I thought they only did repairs.

Neil
(not far away in Walderslade!)

Don't tell Mr Firth! He will accuse me of trying to drum up business:-)

I was there today actually, just behind Morrisons.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

Thanks I'll pop in, I thought they only did repairs.

Dave, give me a call to discuss tomorrow. But you are buying your a
laptop at a great time as most stores have not sold as many as they
wanted leading up to Christmas. Indeed, DSG, the owner of PCWorld
issued a profits warning
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/mai.../bcndsg203.xml
Likely upshot is that prices are very good.
I have used a Dell in my last job and carried it around the world and
back and forth to work every day and it was very reliable, as most
laptops from any reputable make are likely to be. Biggest issue is far
more likely to be software related and most companies response to this
is for you to put in the recovery disk which will re-install the
operating system and could lead to you losing data if you haven't been
backing up.
The other advice I would give is to make sure the system has 2Gb of
memory, any less with Vista and it will be sluggish. Many stores were
selling systems earlier inthe year with 512Mb when memory was costlier
and these would hardly work at all. You could upgrade the memory as
suggested in one post, but there are several companies doing machines
with 2Gb for great prices.

I would also suggest that you try and get a pc for £400 or less.
Something like this
http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/339848 should meet your
needs. I certainly couldn't envisage this laptop not being able to do
anything you could throw at it like video editing etc. If you pay
more than this, you are likely paying for a smaller laptop, which is
unecessary, unless you are carting it around everywhere.

The good thing about getting it from PCWorld is that you can go in a
make a fuss (this I know you can do) if it is not working and quote
the Sales of Good act etc.
Hope this helps
Tim

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:46:45 -0800, Tim Decker wrote:

I would also suggest that you try and get a pc for £400 or less.

Just before xmas I got a HP with 2G RAM and 120G HDD for about £350 from
Staples. I bought it there partly because I wanted to run Linux on
it. Although I'd booted it off a Knoppix live CD in the shop that didn't
seem to bring up its wireless port, but when I discussed it with an
assistant he pointed out that they have a 14-day return as-new for money
back thing going. There was also threw a 1G USB stick for £3 since I was
spending over £50 (IIRC).

The other advice I would give is to make sure the system has 2Gb of
memory, any less with Vista and it will be sluggish.

I overheard a sales droid in Staples telling this to a customer and
assumed it was hype to sell better specced machines. My desktop at home
has 1G and is quite happy with 4 users logged in simultaneously (though
only one active at a time, so much of the other users's stuff will be
swapped out). Its predecessor had 256M or 512M (forget which) and sagged
noticeably with more than 2 users logged in. This is with everyone using
the KDE desktop[1] which is reckoned to be real bloatware... in Linux
terms at least: evidently Microsoft is well ahead in that particular
game :-)


[1] Linux/Open Source equivalent to the windowing bit of windows, but
you've really got to think of the Windows 3.1/95/98/ME family where the
windows bit was separate from the underlying system (in that case DOS). In
Linux the graphical environment is entirely separate (and on servers may
not even be installed) and one has a choice of several, with different
looks & feels.


--
John Stumbles

Pessimists are never disappointed

John Stumbles wrote:

Just before xmas I got a HP with 2G RAM and 120G HDD for about £350 from
Staples. I bought it there partly because I wanted to run Linux on

I had a DSG rep from PC World business offering me some similar sound
spec HP boxes at £200+VAT the other day - with a further £50 rebate!
They must be keen to shift them.

The other advice I would give is to make sure the system has 2Gb of
memory, any less with Vista and it will be sluggish.

I overheard a sales droid in Staples telling this to a customer and
assumed it was hype to sell better specced machines. My desktop at home

No, vista is a total dog on 512MB (even Home Basic), and fairly non
responsive in 1GB based on the machines I have tried. Number one
requirement specced by most of our customers seems to be "Can I still
have XP?"


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 2008-01-05 03:24:56 +0000, John Stumbles said:

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:46:45 -0800, Tim Decker wrote:

I would also suggest that you try and get a pc for £400 or less.

Just before xmas I got a HP with 2G RAM and 120G HDD for about £350 from
Staples. I bought it there partly because I wanted to run Linux on
it. Although I'd booted it off a Knoppix live CD in the shop that didn't
seem to bring up its wireless port, but when I discussed it with an
assistant he pointed out that they have a 14-day return as-new for money
back thing going. There was also threw a 1G USB stick for £3 since I was
spending over £50 (IIRC).

Visions of John with his underpants on the outside of his trousers
going around all the PC stores and installing Linux on all of their
display systems - saving them from themselves. :-)




The other advice I would give is to make sure the system has 2Gb of
memory, any less with Vista and it will be sluggish.

I overheard a sales droid in Staples telling this to a customer and
assumed it was hype to sell better specced machines.

It's sluggish anyway.

Here's a video on how to install it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU7UhLNyigg



My desktop at home
has 1G and is quite happy with 4 users logged in simultaneously (though
only one active at a time, so much of the other users's stuff will be
swapped out). Its predecessor had 256M or 512M (forget which) and sagged
noticeably with more than 2 users logged in. This is with everyone using
the KDE desktop[1] which is reckoned to be real bloatware... in Linux
terms at least: evidently Microsoft is well ahead in that particular
game :-)


[1] Linux/Open Source equivalent to the windowing bit of windows, but
you've really got to think of the Windows 3.1/95/98/ME family where the
windows bit was separate from the underlying system (in that case DOS). In
Linux the graphical environment is entirely separate (and on servers may
not even be installed) and one has a choice of several, with different
looks & feels.

Tried Gnome? This seems to be a bit lighter weight.

Neil wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
.uk...
I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.
Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a
good deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.
Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.
A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.
Am I better off leaving them well alone?
Dave - The Medway Handyman
Dave,
have you looked at the LaptopRepairShop by the Tiger Moth / Toys-R-Us ?
They sometimes have interesting deals, and my experiences there have been
good.
AFAIK Dell are OK, as long as you don't want to upgrade the PC much.

What's the issue with upgrading?
We have 2 Dell desktops and a laptop at the moment at home, all have
been excellent and I've never regretted the purchases (which is why I've
been back to them twice).

The most 'senior' of them has now had its life extended with upgrades of
memory, hard disk, TV card, DVD drives and monitor without any problem.

David

Lobster wrote:

AFAIK Dell are OK, as long as you don't want to upgrade the PC much.

What's the issue with upgrading?

Its partly historical. They used to use kit with non standard pinouts on
things like PSUs. It meant that swapping parts was very costly since you
ended up needing to swap lots of bit you would not normally need to.

They don't tend to do that much these days, although if you buy the
business class systems they often lack simple things like an extra HDD
drive bay, or come with IDE cables with only one connector etc.

The other difficulty is that jo public tends to get saddled with lowest
cost call centre support.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Neil wrote:
AFAIK Dell are OK, as long as you don't want to upgrade the PC much.
What's the issue with upgrading?
We have 2 Dell desktops and a laptop at the moment at home, all have been
excellent and I've never regretted the purchases (which is why I've been
back to them twice).
The most 'senior' of them has now had its life extended with upgrades of
memory, hard disk, TV card, DVD drives and monitor without any problem.
David
Mainly from hearsay, and (having thought / talked more) because of the ones
at work.
As mentioned by another post, they seem to tailored by cutting out any
uneccessary extras.
Generally Dell appear to be good for support (you can download the service
manuals for laptops, and buy individual keytops from Canada via Ebay), but
the sales seem to be determined to make you spend more than you originally
thought - stand firm!
As regards memory size, XP now seems to need more than 512MB to be happy.
Might be the Windows upgrades keep wanting a little more each time ? Not
seen Vista on anything less than 1GB, and contrary to pouplar opinion, a
couple of tech guys (not PC World) have said it is very good for network
admin and media handling - just need to persevere and customise a little.
hth
Neil

On Jan 4, 9:44 pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.

Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a good
deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.

Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.

A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.

Am I better off leaving them well alone?

I've bought several Dells in the past, and indeed do recommend them to
others as I think they're good value. Not the best, but I do think you
get a lot for your money. I used to build my own but it's just not
worth it these days (for me at least).

I've found their customer service to be excellent although having said
that I've never had anything go wrong so I probably haven't really
tested this side of things.

They do often operate a potentially complicate discount scheme require
all various codes etc in order to get the system advertised on a flyer
via their website, and indeed they do seem to slip in the paid-for
support as standard so you need to remove that to get the price you
were expecting.

What's the system you were after? Have a look at www.dmxdimension.com
- they list all the latest offers generally available (via click-
through links but they're quite open about it).

One thing I would advise is *not* to 'upgrade' the PC as part of the
customisation process, e.g. for additional memory etc. It's far
cheaper to purchase that separately (e.g. from Crucial in this case).

Mathew

On Jan 4, 10:23 pm, Mathew Newton wrote:

They do often operate a potentially complicate discount scheme require
all various codes etc in order to get the system advertised on a flyer
via their website, and indeed they do seem to slip in the paid-for
support as standard so you need to remove that to get the price you
were expecting.

You can enter the code(s) from your flyer at the following page:

http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/to...hs1&l=en&s=dhs

However I would recommend checking the dmxdimension site to see if
what you've seen is the 'best' current offer.

Mathew

In article
,
Mathew Newton writes
On Jan 4, 9:44 pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.

Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a good
deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.

Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.

A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.

Am I better off leaving them well alone?

I've bought several Dells in the past, and indeed do recommend them to
others as I think they're good value. Not the best, but I do think you
get a lot for your money. I used to build my own but it's just not
worth it these days (for me at least).

I've found their customer service to be excellent although having said
that I've never had anything go wrong so I probably haven't really
tested this side of things.

They do often operate a potentially complicate discount scheme require
all various codes etc in order to get the system advertised on a flyer
via their website, and indeed they do seem to slip in the paid-for
support as standard so you need to remove that to get the price you
were expecting.

What's the system you were after? Have a look at www.dmxdimension.com
- they list all the latest offers generally available (via click-
through links but they're quite open about it).

One thing I would advise is *not* to 'upgrade' the PC as part of the
customisation process, e.g. for additional memory etc. It's far
cheaper to purchase that separately (e.g. from Crucial in this case).

For those that don't grow (or upgrade) their own I agree with all you
have said and the http://www.dmxdimension.com tip is a good one,
recently found that on a recommendation, if you don't find what you want
there, wait a week or two and another best deal will appear.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

"Mathew Newton" wrote in message
...

What's the system you were after? Have a look at www.dmxdimension.com
- they list all the latest offers generally available (via click-
through links but they're quite open about it).

Seconded. Dells ordinary prices aren't great. The offer prices are often
very good. There's another site that lists them but I can't remember it's
name. It's also worth noting that if you use Quidco (note the model code to
get to the model you want), you can get another 3% kickback. With a cashback
credit card, quidco and the 10% offer you'd be getting on for 15% discount.

"Mathew Newton" wrote in message
news:0a795c9f-e2a8-42a3-8f53-

What's the system you were after? Have a look at www.dmxdimension.com
- they list all the latest offers generally available

I see their cheapest Laptop comes with Ubuntu installed as the OS.

I wonder how many people have bought one of these on price alone without
realising what they were getting.







-

On Jan 5, 2:46 pm, "Mark" wrote:
"Mathew Newton" wrote in message

news:0a795c9f-e2a8-42a3-8f53-



What's the system you were after? Have a look atwww.dmxdimension.com
- they list all the latest offers generally available

I see their cheapest Laptop comes with Ubuntu installed as the OS.

I wonder how many people have bought one of these on price alone without
realising what they were getting.

If they've gone via the dmxdimension site then that may indeed happen!

However to get Ubuntu on a PC from the Dell site itself requires some
digging - it doesn't even appear in the 'OS choice' list. I wish they
would promote it a bit more however I do concede that for many it
would be unsuitable and indeed verging on potential disappointment!

Mathew

"Mathew Newton" wrote in message
news:7ea0ab40-6a35-4806-a384-

What's the system you were after? Have a look atwww.dmxdimension.com
- they list all the latest offers generally available

I see their cheapest Laptop comes with Ubuntu installed as the OS.

I wonder how many people have bought one of these on price alone without
realising what they were getting.

If they've gone via the dmxdimension site then that may indeed happen!

However to get Ubuntu on a PC from the Dell site itself requires some
digging - it doesn't even appear in the 'OS choice' list. I wish they
would promote it a bit more however I do concede that for many it
would be unsuitable and indeed verging on potential disappointment!

Mathew


"verging on potential disappointment!"

that could be the understatement of the year so far.

I think I will do a straw pole in the pub tonight just to see if Joe public
has the faintest idea about Ubuntu/Linux





-

Mark wrote:

I think I will do a straw pole in the pub tonight just to see if Joe public
has the faintest idea about Ubuntu/Linux

Well I'll be honest and tell you that I do know what Linux is but have
never ever seen it, and that I'd never heard of Ubuntu until this
afternoon...

What happens if you need to share files (or even view them?) with any of
the other 99% of the world who uses MS Office, for example? Presumably
any of these OS are a non-starter, surely?

David

What's the system you were after? Have a look at www.dmxdimension.com
- they list all the latest offers generally available (via click-
through links but they're quite open about it).

I've been AFK for a couple of days, but a small note on this - I was
able to configure a machine via this with 1Gb memory and 160Gb HD for
only ** £87 ** +VAT and delivery (without monitor) - I posted the
details on alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains the other day...

In article ,
"The Medway Handyman" writes:
I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.

Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a good
deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.

Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.

A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.

Am I better off leaving them well alone?

I know a few people who buy Dells. The buying of the systems
and actually getting what you thought you'd ordered seems to
be the hard part. You have to check the proposed system
configuration very carefully as they seem to like to miss
things off which you were expecting. They can have quite good
offers when they're trying to sell off their older ranges to
make way for new ones.

The post sales support when they go wrong was reported to me
as good. The engineers who turn up don't know much about what
they're doing which means they end up replacing much more of
a broken system than they need to and take longer than they
should, but they did repair in all cases. Don't expect the
data on your hard drive to be saved, but I don't have any
sympathy with anyone who does anyway.

I wouldn't personally buy a Dell for a desktop system -- I
prefer an anonymous white box system built with good industry
standard parts. Laptops however have no such concept.
I generally recommend avoiding buying laptops unless you
really need them -- they come at a substantial price premium,
and are much more difficult and expensive to repair and expand,
and tend to have a significantly shorter life.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

standard parts. Laptops however have no such concept.
I generally recommend avoiding buying laptops unless you
really need them -- they come at a substantial price premium,
and are much more difficult and expensive to repair and expand,
and tend to have a significantly shorter life.

Agree with the last bit, but the price premium on laptops (while still
there) is nothing like it was a year ago even.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

standard parts. Laptops however have no such concept.
I generally recommend avoiding buying laptops unless you
really need them -- they come at a substantial price premium,
and are much more difficult and expensive to repair and expand,
and tend to have a significantly shorter life.

Agree with the last bit, but the price premium on laptops (while still
there) is nothing like it was a year ago even.

Yep, I've just bought a 399 laptop. It was virtually impossible to buy a
desktop with monitor for less (and absolutely impossible to persuade the
droid to unbundle the monitor from the deal).

tim

On 2008-01-04 21:44:29 +0000, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.

Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a good
deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.

Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.

A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.

Am I better off leaving them well alone?

Desktop machines have typically been OK, IME. Service was OK as well

Laptops I found the build quality not to be great. Paint tends to
wear off easily and laptop soon looks shabby.

If service is important to you, then I think that HP is a better
choice. Build quality of laptops is better than Dell.

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 22:32:30 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

If service is important to you, then I think that HP is a better choice.
Build quality of laptops is better than Dell.

When I was contemplating buying a laptop recently I asked on our local
Linux Users Group. One of the regulars there offered this (which I hope he
doesn't mind me forwarding here):

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""""
Only a few companies manufacture (some of) their own laptops. I only know
of Lenovo (who used to manufacture for IBM, of course) and Toshiba
(high-end models only).

Everyone else (Dell, HPaq, Sony, Acer, Apple, all the second-tier vendors
like Viglen, Rock and so on) has their models designed and built by
Taiwanese ODMs such as Mitac, TwinHead, Compal, Wistron, Arima, Uniwill,
ECS, Asus, Clevo or Inventec). Some (Apple, Sony) exert a greater degree
of control over the design and QA than others. Superficially, F-S's[1]
machines appear to be somewhat unique, which suggests that may also be in
this group. By contrast, the smaller vendors were almost exclusively
selling Clevos when I last looked in 2002. Reliability is always going to
be hard to quantify, since non-specialist/non-expert reviews will probably
conflate hardware reliability with software reliability (i.e. Windows).
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""""
[1] Fujitsu-Siemens, which I was asking about at the time.

--
John Stumbles

A backstreet vasectomy left me sterile

John Stumbles wrote in
:

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 22:32:30 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

If service is important to you, then I think that HP is a better
choice.
Build quality of laptops is better than Dell.

When I was contemplating buying a laptop recently I asked on our
local Linux Users Group. One of the regulars there offered this
(which I hope he doesn't mind me forwarding here):

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""
"""" Only a few companies manufacture (some of) their own laptops.
I only know of Lenovo (who used to manufacture for IBM, of course)
and Toshiba (high-end models only).

Everyone else (Dell, HPaq, Sony, Acer, Apple, all the second-tier
vendors like Viglen, Rock and so on) has their models designed and
built by Taiwanese ODMs such as Mitac, TwinHead, Compal, Wistron,
Arima, Uniwill, ECS, Asus, Clevo or Inventec). Some (Apple, Sony)
exert a greater degree of control over the design and QA than
others. Superficially, F-S's[1] machines appear to be somewhat
unique, which suggests that may also be in this group. By
contrast, the smaller vendors were almost exclusively selling
Clevos when I last looked in 2002. Reliability is always going to
be hard to quantify, since non-specialist/non-expert reviews will
probably conflate hardware reliability with software reliability
(i.e. Windows).
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""
"""" [1] Fujitsu-Siemens, which I was asking about at the time.

Err... Wny no mention of Quanta Computer, the world's largest
manufacturer of laptops? IIRC they are the OEM for around 35% of all
such products. Just to give an idea of the scale of their operations
they employ some 30,000 people...

Kind regards

--
Richard Perkin
To email me, change the AT in the address below
richard.perkinATmyrealbox.com

It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it
is. If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers. It isn't her's.
It isn't our's either. It's ours, and likewise yours and theirs.
-- Oxford University Press, Edpress News

Richard Perkin wrote in
:

John Stumbles wrote in
:

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 22:32:30 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

If service is important to you, then I think that HP is a better
choice.
Build quality of laptops is better than Dell.

When I was contemplating buying a laptop recently I asked on our
local Linux Users Group. One of the regulars there offered this
(which I hope he doesn't mind me forwarding here):

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""
" """" Only a few companies manufacture (some of) their own
laptops. I only know of Lenovo (who used to manufacture for IBM,
of course) and Toshiba (high-end models only).

Everyone else (Dell, HPaq, Sony, Acer, Apple, all the second-tier
vendors like Viglen, Rock and so on) has their models designed
and built by Taiwanese ODMs such as Mitac, TwinHead, Compal,
Wistron, Arima, Uniwill, ECS, Asus, Clevo or Inventec). Some
(Apple, Sony) exert a greater degree of control over the design
and QA than others. Superficially, F-S's[1] machines appear to be
somewhat unique, which suggests that may also be in this group.
By contrast, the smaller vendors were almost exclusively selling
Clevos when I last looked in 2002. Reliability is always going to
be hard to quantify, since non-specialist/non-expert reviews will
probably conflate hardware reliability with software reliability
(i.e. Windows).
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""
" """" [1] Fujitsu-Siemens, which I was asking about at the time.

Err... Wny no mention of Quanta Computer, the world's largest
manufacturer of laptops? IIRC they are the OEM for around 35% of
all such products. Just to give an idea of the scale of their
operations they employ some 30,000 people...

Bad form to reply to one's own post, but a little more info for
those unaware of the scale of major ODMs / OEMs. Few if any high
tech electronics are actually manufactured by the companies with the
brand names on the front.

Google (or use Wikipedia) for companies such as Foxconn (Hon Hai),
Celestica, Solectron, Flextronics...

Aside: Related to the discussion in another thread about ICL's past
glories, it was Celestica who bought ICL's D2D manufacturing
division. Also IIRC, Celestica started as IBM Canada's manufacturing
division. These relationships are also very incestuous - some years
ago I recall visting Celestica's location in Swords, outside Dublin,
which was formerly Motorola's factory when they manufactured in
Ireland...

--
Richard Perkin
To email me, change the AT in the address below
richard.perkinATmyrealbox.com

It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it
is. If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers. It isn't her's.
It isn't our's either. It's ours, and likewise yours and theirs.
-- Oxford University Press, Edpress News

On 2008-01-05 10:29:58 +0000, Richard Perkin said:

Err... Wny no mention of Quanta Computer, the world's largest
manufacturer of laptops? IIRC they are the OEM for around 35% of all
such products. Just to give an idea of the scale of their operations
they employ some 30,000 people...

That's worrying - so people intensive.

In message , The
Medway Handyman writes
I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.

Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a good
deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.

Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.

A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.

Am I better off leaving them well alone?

Dunno. After a bed experience with Evesham we bought a Dell laptop. It
arrived early, worked out of the box and has given no trouble in 6
months of use.

Don't their flyers have a code which you type in to find the particular
offer? Do you want to buy that particular offer? Why not use their
web-site to choose exactly what you need?

--
Si

Si wrote:

Don't their flyers have a code which you type in to find the particular
offer? Do you want to buy that particular offer? Why not use their
web-site to choose exactly what you need?


Because often the flyer price is less than the identical machine spec'ed
through the web site.

Andy

The message k
from "The Medway Handyman" contains
these words:

I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.

Not me. I only have half a clue. But I do have a Dell.

Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like
a good
deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.

Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.

I even persuaded my BiL to go for a Dell but I wouldn't give that advice
again. He had to use the telephone service as his old PC froze
attempting to order. Needed a constant argument with a pushy sales droid
to get what I thought he needed and he still ended up with a higher
price than the on-line order I could have got for him.

The on-line ordering system has endless upgrades you can specify but
most default to the basic scheme. However when I placed my order I found
I was (IIRC) £150 higher than expected. I eventually tracked this down
to some expensive training package where the default was to include
rather than exclude which was to say the least deceitful.

A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.

No where near as bad as the lying toe rags at the now defunct Tiny or PC
World.

Am I better off leaving them well alone?

There are plenty worse. I haven't as yet needed to consult their
technical support for myself but I have on BiLs behalf and the first
level support seems to be little more than a robot but the supervisor
eventually spoke to was very good .

--
Roger Chapman

The Medway Handyman wrote:
I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.

Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a good
deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.

Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.

A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.

Am I better off leaving them well alone?


There's normally a special code on the flyer you have to use. And you
have to get exactly that spec.

Dell are normally pretty good, we use them for all our desktops at work,
and I'm using a Dell monitor right now.

Andy

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
.uk...
I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.

Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a
good deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.

Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.

A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.

I've only had one experience of dealing with them, and I won't go back!

Friend's new PC system - arrived on time and complete. So far so good. But
CD/DVD RW refused to read any disk; made strange groaning noises but never
spun the disk up to speed. I quickly realised a fault with the drive was
quite obvious, but when I eventually got through (after around 20 minutes on
hold!) to some poor bloke in the Indian Sub-Continent it took a further hour
and six minutes to decide I was right. Many episodes of editing the registry
and rebooting later he agreed to dispatch a replacement drive for me to
install. I installed it and it immediately worked. If Dell had applied a
little quality control it would never have happened and I wouldn't have
spent around an hour and a half (and about £3.00 of my friend's money) on an
0845 number waiting to talk to someone in India :-(

Dave

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 21:44:29 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.

Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a good
deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.

Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.

A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.

Am I better off leaving them well alone?

I've got a Dell Desktop PC + a Dell Laptop.

Had a problem with the Desktop - Dell sorted it no problems.

Would buy Dell again - *very* happy with Dell :-)
--
Regards,

Hugh Jampton

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.

Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a good
deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.

Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.

A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.

Am I better off leaving them well alone?

If you're talking about a desktop why not build one? You'll save some
money, get a machine that is exactly as you want it and know how to fix it
if it goes wrong. I did this for my first ever PC about a year ago.

--
*If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.

Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a good
deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.

Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.

A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.

Am I better off leaving them well alone?

If you're talking about a desktop why not build one? You'll save some
money, get a machine that is exactly as you want it and know how to fix it
if it goes wrong. I did this for my first ever PC about a year ago.

I'm not sure you'll save money, there's always the temptation to up the
spec a bit

At the end of the day, you 'l get the machine you want not something
that's not quite

Also, you should have better compatibility with the rest of the world
than Dell (like memory expansion)


--
geoff

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.

Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a good
deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.

Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.

A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.

Am I better off leaving them well alone?

If you're talking about a desktop why not build one? You'll save some
money, get a machine that is exactly as you want it and know how to fix it
if it goes wrong. I did this for my first ever PC about a year ago.

I can certainly see the benefits of building your own, but AFAICS for an
average sort-of joe-public-specced PC I can't see how you're ever going
to save money on building your own these days.

Last time I looked into doing this I was going to cannibalise my old PC,
and use what I could from that, however there was no way I could get
close to the overall cost of a new PC (which I bought monitor-less from
Dell).

David

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 10:58:10 +0000, Lobster wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.

Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a
good deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.

Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later
I still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.

A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.

Am I better off leaving them well alone?

If you're talking about a desktop why not build one? You'll save some
money, get a machine that is exactly as you want it and know how to fix
it if it goes wrong. I did this for my first ever PC about a year ago.

I can certainly see the benefits of building your own, but AFAICS for an
average sort-of joe-public-specced PC I can't see how you're ever going to
save money on building your own these days.

Last time I looked into doing this I was going to cannibalise my old PC,
and use what I could from that, however there was no way I could get
close to the overall cost of a new PC (which I bought monitor-less from
Dell).

David

==================================
You probably can't save money overall but if you do re-use items from an
old PC then the money saved on those items can be used to get a better
specification on the things that matter - e.g. more memory than an
'off-the-shelf' box.

It's hardly worth trying to sell an outgrown PC because they're worth so
little so it makes good sense to cannibalise the old and dump the corpse.

Cic.

--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

In article , Lobster
scribeth thus
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.

Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a good
deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.

Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.

A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.

Am I better off leaving them well alone?

If you're talking about a desktop why not build one? You'll save some
money, get a machine that is exactly as you want it and know how to fix it
if it goes wrong. I did this for my first ever PC about a year ago.

I can certainly see the benefits of building your own, but AFAICS for an
average sort-of joe-public-specced PC I can't see how you're ever going
to save money on building your own these days.

Last time I looked into doing this I was going to cannibalise my old PC,
and use what I could from that, however there was no way I could get
close to the overall cost of a new PC (which I bought monitor-less from
Dell).

David


Well if you but the bits from the right places you can make a better PC
especially some money directed at quite power units and low noise
cooling and of course you learn a bit and can mend the gubbins..

However unless the field support id very good expect to pack it off for
repair especially if its a laptop. For this very reason I bought a
couple of second hand dell latitude's quite good machines, from a place
locally that repairs them.. quite rare but worth it in case of need...
--
Tony Sayer

On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 11:28:19 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , Lobster
scribeth thus
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I know there are many people on this group who are knowledgeable about
computers, hence the question.

Got a flyer from Dell Computers a while ago offering what seemed like a good
deal on a new PC. SWMBO decided we needed one.

Four phone calls, two e-mails & several visits to their web site later I
still can't seem to buy it at the price on the flyer.

A quick Google search reveals loads of bad news about their service.

Am I better off leaving them well alone?

If you're talking about a desktop why not build one? You'll save some
money, get a machine that is exactly as you want it and know how to fix it
if it goes wrong. I did this for my first ever PC about a year ago.

I can certainly see the benefits of building your own, but AFAICS for an
average sort-of joe-public-specced PC I can't see how you're ever going
to save money on building your own these days.

Last time I looked into doing this I was going to cannibalise my old PC,
and use what I could from that, however there was no way I could get
close to the overall cost of a new PC (which I bought monitor-less from
Dell).

David


Well if you but the bits from the right places you can make a better PC
especially some money directed at quite power units and low noise
cooling and of course you learn a bit and can mend the gubbins..

However unless the field support id very good expect to pack it off for
repair especially if its a laptop. For this very reason I bought a
couple of second hand dell latitude's quite good machines, from a place
locally that repairs them.. quite rare but worth it in case of need...


I have had three Dells and have built three to my own spec.

If you want a run of the mill home PC it is not worth building your
own. You will not be able to build the same spec for 250 quid as they
can sell you one for. However, if you are looking at overclocking - a
couple of huge drives - RAID - serious sound card and graphics then
build your own.

On 2008-01-05 10:58:10 +0000, Lobster said:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I
If you're talking about a desktop why not build one? You'll save some
money, get a machine that is exactly as you want it and know how to fix it
if it goes wrong. I did this for my first ever PC about a year ago.

I can certainly see the benefits of building your own, but AFAICS for
an average sort-of joe-public-specced PC I can't see how you're ever
going to save money on building your own these days.

Last time I looked into doing this I was going to cannibalise my old
PC, and use what I could from that, however there was no way I could
get close to the overall cost of a new PC (which I bought monitor-less
from Dell).

David

On a cost basis, you won't, simply because you won't get the price
levels on one off purchases of the components that an integrator does.

DIY for PCs is interesting because of the ability to select the
individual components, although even that has been dumbed down; i.e.
there are two significant video card players from the chipset
perspective - NVidia and ATI. For desktop systems, there are SATA
drives with a few different chipset options for the controller. After
that, it's pick which CPU and memory that you want.

Server platforms are a somewhat different game.