Ok the Ally Gates that the council have put up contain razor wire on the top
and no signs to say Beware! so why can they have the right to put it up and
not joe bloggs?

"George" wrote in message
. uk...
Ok the Ally Gates that the council have put up contain razor wire on the
top
and no signs to say Beware! so why can they have the right to put it up
and
not joe bloggs?


ICBW but I think you can put pretty much what you want around business
property.

"R D S" wrote in message
...

"George" wrote in message
. uk...
Ok the Ally Gates that the council have put up contain razor wire on the
top
and no signs to say Beware! so why can they have the right to put it up
and
not joe bloggs?


ICBW but I think you can put pretty much what you want around business
property.



Asda stores have electrified fences around some of their goods-in compounds.
--
Graham

%Profound_observation%

George wrote:
Ok the Ally Gates that the council have put up contain razor wire on
the top and no signs to say Beware! so why can they have the right to
put it up and not joe bloggs?

George,

From googling the term "razor wire" it would appear that the stuff can be
used on domestic properties by "Joe Bloggs" legally. There are a few
caveats though:

1 - The owner can be sued by anyone who has been hurt by the stuff - whether
it be an innocent person, trespasser or criminal.

2 - Councils can object to it for a number of reasons and order its removal.

3 - If you are a tenant of a property - you can be evicted for using the
stuff.

4 - Owners has a 'duty of care' to prevent anyone from being hurt on their
property see this:

"Using barbed/razor wire and broken glass in order to stop people getting in
to your home is not advisable. You are making yourself liable to civil
action as you owe a duty of care to ensure that visitors to your property
are reasonably safe. As absurd as it may seem you also owe a lower duty of
care to trespassers".

taken from http://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q78.htm

"George" wrote in message
. uk...
Ok the Ally Gates that the council have put up contain razor wire on the
top
and no signs to say Beware! so why can they have the right to put it up
and
not joe bloggs?


Either you want to put it up or you don't - YOU make your own mind up and do
it instead of talking about it.
I would have razor wire electrified. Providing it can't be touched by
accident and is within your property who is to know apart from a burglar.
I wouldn't stick a sign up warning a burglar - if he complained he would
find himself in the boot of a car being driven miles away before being
dumped.
They only understand one language.
Are you sure you don't work for the CPS or Probation Service?

"TKelly" wrote in message
...

"George" wrote in message
. uk...
Ok the Ally Gates that the council have put up contain razor wire on the
top
and no signs to say Beware! so why can they have the right to put it up
and
not joe bloggs?


Either you want to put it up or you don't - YOU make your own mind up and
do it instead of talking about it.
I would have razor wire electrified. Providing it can't be touched by
accident and is within your property who is to know apart from a burglar.
I wouldn't stick a sign up warning a burglar - if he complained he would
find himself in the boot of a car being driven miles away before being
dumped.
They only understand one language.
Are you sure you don't work for the CPS or Probation Service?

I'm with you all the way, if someone is on my property without permission I
should be the one who decides what rights they have.

However the country is f*cked up and if someone harms themselves on your
razor wire you will probably end up giving them your hard earned.

Brian G coughed up some electrons that declared:


"Using barbed/razor wire and broken glass in order to stop people getting
in to your home is not advisable. You are making yourself liable to civil
action as you owe a duty of care to ensure that visitors to your property
are reasonably safe. As absurd as it may seem you also owe a lower duty
of care to trespassers".

taken from http://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q78.htm

Oddly enough when I lived on a council estate in Surrey years back, the
local plod suggested we added something spiky around the fence tops and the
hedge. We did, it worked. Short of electrification, it could safely be said
that we went to town on it.

I think, in the more notorious areas, you may find a refreshing disparity
between the official line and what the police will actually
advise/tolerate.

Not that my estate was fundamentally that notorious, but relative to the
rest of south Surrey it was.

Cheers

Tim

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 19:09:58 +0000, Tim Southerwood wrote:

Oddly enough when I lived on a council estate in Surrey years back, the
local plod suggested we added something spiky around the fence tops and
the hedge.

Of course the spiky stuff doesn't have to barbed/razor wire, broken glass
etc. You have this love of Roses or Gorse or Broom etc etc

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Nov 4, 9:23 pm, "Dave Liquorice" wrote:

Of course the spiky stuff doesn't have to barbed/razor wire, broken glass
etc. You have this love of Roses or Gorse or Broom etc etc

Broom?

Has this got something to do with bushido?

On 4 Nov, 18:08, "Brian G" wrote:
George wrote:
Ok the Ally Gates that the council have put up contain razor wire on
the top and no signs to say Beware! so why can they have the right to
put it up and not joe bloggs?

George,

From googling the term "razor wire" it would appear that the stuff can be
used on domestic properties by "Joe Bloggs" legally. There are a few
caveats though:

1 - The owner can be sued by anyone who has been hurt by the stuff - whether
it be an innocent person, trespasser or criminal.

2 - Councils can object to it for a number of reasons and order its removal.

3 - If you are a tenant of a property - you can be evicted for using the
stuff.

4 - Owners has a 'duty of care' to prevent anyone from being hurt on their
property see this:

"Using barbed/razor wire and broken glass in order to stop people getting in
to your home is not advisable. You are making yourself liable to civil
action as you owe a duty of care to ensure that visitors to your property
are reasonably safe. As absurd as it may seem you also owe a lower duty of
care to trespassers".

taken fromhttp://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q78.htm

I think maybe people are getting the occupiers' liability thing a bit
out of proportion. So, a burglar can sue you for injuries caused by
the razor wire. What's the worst injury he's likely to incur? A nasty
nick to his little finger. The claim for damages is not going to
bankrupt you (and in fact just won't happen).

Short of a concert pianist attempting to rob you and cutting all his
fingers off in a freak accident, meaning no earning capacity for the
next forty years, I think you can forget compensation claims for razor-
wire injuries.

On 4 Nov, 18:37, "TKelly" wrote:

Either you want to put it up or you don't - YOU make your own mind up and do
it instead of talking about it.
I would have razor wire electrified. Providing it can't be touched by
accident and is within your property who is to know apart from a burglar.
I wouldn't stick a sign up warning a burglar - if he complained he would
find himself in the boot of a car being driven miles away before being
dumped.
They only understand one language.
Are you sure you don't work for the CPS or Probation Service?

OK, I take it back, TKelly, isn't getting occupiers' liability out of
proportion, he's just a nutter.

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:07:12 GMT, "George"
wrote:

Ok the Ally Gates that the council have put up contain razor wire on the top
and no signs to say Beware! so why can they have the right to put it up and
not joe bloggs?

What are "Ally Gates"?

Are you in Belfast or similar?

--
Frank Erskine

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 16:30:07 -0800, Martin Pentreath wrote:

I think maybe people are getting the occupiers' liability thing a bit
out of proportion. So, a burglar can sue you for injuries caused by
the razor wire. What's the worst injury he's likely to incur? A nasty
nick to his little finger.

There speaks someone who has not had a close encounter with razor wire.
Unlike barbed wire razor wire is designed to slice and cut so how about a
nasty nick to the artery in his wrist?

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:07:12 GMT, "George"
wrote:

Ok the Ally Gates that the council have put up contain razor wire on the
top
and no signs to say Beware! so why can they have the right to put it up
and
not joe bloggs?

What are "Ally Gates"?


Steel gates that the council put on all back entrys

Are you in Belfast or similar?

No,its a nationwide thing.


--
Frank Erskine

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2007-11-05, George wrote:

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:07:12 GMT, "George"
wrote:

Ok the Ally Gates that the council have put up contain razor wire on
the
top
and no signs to say Beware! so why can they have the right to put it
up
and
not joe bloggs?

What are "Ally Gates"?


Steel gates that the council put on all back entrys

Ahhh, Alley gates rather than Ali (Aluminium) gates. )


--
"Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
and presumptuous desire for a second one."
[email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org dot uk]

Well regardless of the 'E' being left out a googly would have revealed what
they were even with the mispelt name. :-)
Anyway say the words "alley gates" and people instinctivly know what they
are

On 5 Nov, 09:24, Huge wrote:

What are "Ally Gates"?

Steel gates that the council put on all back entrys

Ahhh, Alley gates rather than Ali (Aluminium) gates. )

I thought he meant alloy gates - just goes to disprove the text-
message generation who think spelling doesn't matter!

Cheers!

Martin

In article ,
R D S wrote:
Either you want to put it up or you don't - YOU make your own mind up
and do it instead of talking about it. I would have razor wire
electrified. Providing it can't be touched by accident and is within
your property who is to know apart from a burglar. I wouldn't stick a
sign up warning a burglar - if he complained he would find himself in
the boot of a car being driven miles away before being dumped. They
only understand one language. Are you sure you don't work for the CPS
or Probation Service?

I'm with you all the way, if someone is on my property without
permission I should be the one who decides what rights they have.

However the country is f*cked up and if someone harms themselves on your
razor wire you will probably end up giving them your hard earned.

Feel free to emigrate to a country that suits you better, human rights
wise. But don't be surprised when your idea of *your* rights and those of
that country don't coincide.

--
*INDECISION is the key to FLEXIBILITY *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 12:39:50 UTC, Martin Pentreath
wrote:

On 5 Nov, 09:24, Huge wrote:

What are "Ally Gates"?

Steel gates that the council put on all back entrys

Ahhh, Alley gates rather than Ali (Aluminium) gates. )

I thought he meant alloy gates - just goes to disprove the text-
message generation who think spelling doesn't matter!

I wondered if he lived near Alexandra Palace...

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"R D S" wrote in message
...

"George" wrote in message
. uk...
Ok the Ally Gates that the council have put up contain razor wire on the
top
and no signs to say Beware! so why can they have the right to put it up
and
not joe bloggs?


ICBW but I think you can put pretty much what you want around business
property.

I had to complete a detailed incident report, send a copy of my risk
assessment and detail what steps I had taken to prevent a recurrence, for
the Health and Safety Executive after someone trespassed on my land, pricked
his finger while skip diving and complained to the Police that the skip
contained sharp objects. To be fair, both the Police Officer who turned up
to inspect the skip and the HSE inspector thought the whole thing a total
waste of time, but they had to follow procedures once a report had been
lodged. I wouldn't want to do the paperwork if someone cut themselves on
razor wire.

Colin Bignell

"George" wrote in message
.uk...

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2007-11-05, George wrote:

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:07:12 GMT, "George"
wrote:

Ok the Ally Gates that the council have put up contain razor wire on
the
top
and no signs to say Beware! so why can they have the right to put it
up
and
not joe bloggs?

What are "Ally Gates"?


Steel gates that the council put on all back entrys

Ahhh, Alley gates rather than Ali (Aluminium) gates. )


--
"Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
and presumptuous desire for a second one."
[email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org dot uk]

Well regardless of the 'E' being left out a googly would have revealed
what
they were even with the mispelt name. :-)
Anyway say the words "alley gates" and people instinctivly know what they
are

Probably only people who have back alleyways to their homes and even that
might vary; Around here, an alleyway is a twitten. Like others, I thought
you meant aluminium gates.

Colin Bignell

On 5 Nov, 17:43, Huge wrote:

It's entirely possible to protect the rights of the law abiding and withdraw
them, to a large extent, for law breakers.

Since we're going wildly off-topic I have to say - rubbish! Human
rights are in principle rights of the citizen against the state. They
exist to stop the state abusing its powerful position against all of
us. It's when the state starts accusing you of being a criminal and of
breaking state-made laws that human rights are at their most
important. To my mind that's the mark of a civilised society. If you
want to live somewhere where they torture you when you get on the
wrong side of the law and stone you and amputate bits of you when
you're convicted I believe parts of the middle east and asia might
suit you. You can festoon your house with razor wire there to your
heart's content and shoot the little bleeders on sight, ask questions
later.

Cheers!

Martin

In article ,
Huge wrote:
Feel free to emigrate to a country that suits you better, human rights
wise. But don't be surprised when your idea of *your* rights and those
of that country don't coincide.

It's entirely possible to protect the rights of the law abiding and
withdraw them, to a large extent, for law breakers.

I'm not so sure. Tell people criminals have no rights is giving them cart
blanch to seek retribution. And that's the law's job, not the individuals.
Anything else is the law of the jungle.

--
*Why is "abbreviated" such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 5 Nov, 17:43, Huge wrote:

It's entirely possible to protect the rights of the law abiding and withdraw
them, to a large extent, for law breakers.

PS I should just add that in the particular instance we're talking
about, the law about keeping your property safe for visitors,
including trespassers, has got nothing whatsoever to do with human
rights. Most of what the Human Rights Act gets blamed for has nothing
to do with the Human Rights Act. The rule we're talking about comes
from the principle of occupiers' liability, which predates the Human
Rights Act by a long way.

Along with "data protection" and "heath and safety", "human rights" is
used as a scapegoat for all sorts of things.

Human Rights regulate relationships between citizen and state, not
between private citizens.

End of law lecture.

Cheers!

Martin

On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 18:26:51 UTC, "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname
here.me.uk wrote:

Probably only people who have back alleyways to their homes and even that
might vary; Around here, an alleyway is a twitten.

Sussex or thereabouts?

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In article om,
Martin Pentreath wrote:
It's entirely possible to protect the rights of the law abiding and withdraw
them, to a large extent, for law breakers.

PS I should just add that in the particular instance we're talking
about, the law about keeping your property safe for visitors,
including trespassers, has got nothing whatsoever to do with human
rights. Most of what the Human Rights Act gets blamed for has nothing
to do with the Human Rights Act. The rule we're talking about comes
from the principle of occupiers' liability, which predates the Human
Rights Act by a long way.

Along with "data protection" and "heath and safety", "human rights" is
used as a scapegoat for all sorts of things.

Indeed. My father used to work for a garage and about 50 years ago it was
broken into. The burglar or whatever fell down an open inspection pit and
broke his leg. The owner was prosecuted. The pit should have been covered
up when not actually in use. I dunno under which act the prosecution was
brought but it was long before the days of H&S. Which in many ways is
designed to protect the employer from prosecution rather than aid the
worker.

--
*Sometimes I wake up grumpy; Other times I let him sleep.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 14:41:46 -0800, Weatherlawyer wrote:

Of course the spiky stuff doesn't have to barbed/razor wire, broken
glass etc. You have this love of Roses or Gorse or Broom etc etc

Broom?

Sorry, wrong plant. Berberis is the right one, there are many variations
but some have seriously spiky stems and spikes on the leaves. Not
something you would choose to climb over/through.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 12:39:50 UTC, Martin Pentreath
wrote:

On 5 Nov, 09:24, Huge wrote:

What are "Ally Gates"?
Steel gates that the council put on all back entrys
Ahhh, Alley gates rather than Ali (Aluminium) gates. )
I thought he meant alloy gates - just goes to disprove the text-
message generation who think spelling doesn't matter!

I wondered if he lived near Alexandra Palace...

Am I the only one who thought they were gates to allow their (friends
and) allys to enter?

Andy

On 2007-11-05 19:50:19 +0000, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article om,
Martin Pentreath wrote:
It's entirely possible to protect the rights of the law abiding and withdraw
them, to a large extent, for law breakers.

PS I should just add that in the particular instance we're talking
about, the law about keeping your property safe for visitors,
including trespassers, has got nothing whatsoever to do with human
rights. Most of what the Human Rights Act gets blamed for has nothing
to do with the Human Rights Act. The rule we're talking about comes
from the principle of occupiers' liability, which predates the Human
Rights Act by a long way.

Along with "data protection" and "heath and safety", "human rights" is
used as a scapegoat for all sorts of things.

Indeed. My father used to work for a garage and about 50 years ago it was
broken into. The burglar or whatever fell down an open inspection pit and
broke his leg. The owner was prosecuted. The pit should have been covered
up when not actually in use. I dunno under which act the prosecution was
brought but it was long before the days of H&S. Which in many ways is
designed to protect the employer from prosecution rather than aid the
worker.

Often in these kind of circumstances, the fine is a token or reduced
amount so that the law is served but justice is as well.

Andy Champ wrote:

Am I the only one who thought they were gates to allow their (friends
and) allys to enter?

Andy
fx engages brain

....allies to enter?

Andy

On 2007-11-05 09:24:21 +0000, Huge said:

On 2007-11-05, George wrote:

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:07:12 GMT, "George"
wrote:

Ok the Ally Gates that the council have put up contain razor wire on the
top
and no signs to say Beware! so why can they have the right to put it up
and
not joe bloggs?

What are "Ally Gates"?


Steel gates that the council put on all back entrys

Ahhh, Alley gates rather than Ali (Aluminium) gates. )

Or Ally gates (which are your friends in times of adversity), or Bill's
Moroccan cousin.

"George" wrote in message
.uk...

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2007-11-05, George wrote:

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:07:12 GMT, "George"
wrote:

Ok the Ally Gates that the council have put up contain razor wire on
the
top
and no signs to say Beware! so why can they have the right to put it
up
and
not joe bloggs?

What are "Ally Gates"?


Steel gates that the council put on all back entrys

Ahhh, Alley gates rather than Ali (Aluminium) gates. )


--
"Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
and presumptuous desire for a second one."
[email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org dot uk]

Well regardless of the 'E' being left out a googly would have revealed
what
they were even with the mispelt name. :-)
Anyway say the words "alley gates" and people instinctivly know what they
are


I thought is was a Yorkshire thing. Everyone I asked today knew what a Ally
was.

Adam

In article 472f9da5@qaanaaq,
Andy Hall wrote:
Indeed. My father used to work for a garage and about 50 years ago it
was broken into. The burglar or whatever fell down an open inspection
pit and broke his leg. The owner was prosecuted. The pit should have
been covered up when not actually in use. I dunno under which act the
prosecution was brought but it was long before the days of H&S. Which
in many ways is designed to protect the employer from prosecution
rather than aid the worker.

Often in these kind of circumstances, the fine is a token or reduced
amount so that the law is served but justice is as well.

Yes - the fine wasn't large, but the cost of having an advocate attend
court probably was.

--
*In some places, C:\ is the root of all directories *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 23:01:06 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-11-05 09:24:21 +0000, Huge said:

On 2007-11-05, George wrote:

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:07:12 GMT, "George"
wrote:

Ok the Ally Gates that the council have put up contain razor wire on the
top
and no signs to say Beware! so why can they have the right to put it up
and
not joe bloggs?

What are "Ally Gates"?


Steel gates that the council put on all back entrys

Ahhh, Alley gates rather than Ali (Aluminium) gates. )

Or Ally gates (which are your friends in times of adversity), or Bill's
Moroccan cousin.

Chemical Ali?

--
Frank Erskine

On Nov 4, 5:07 pm, "George" wrote:
Ok the Ally Gates that the council have put up contain razor wire on the top
and no signs to say Beware! so why can they have the right to put it up and
not joe bloggs?

I believe you can get soft rubber stuff that looks like razor wi
it's a deterrant but carries no risk of injury.

Robert

In article ,
Huge wrote:
On 2007-11-05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Huge wrote:
Feel free to emigrate to a country that suits you better, human
rights wise. But don't be surprised when your idea of *your* rights
and those of that country don't coincide.

It's entirely possible to protect the rights of the law abiding and
withdraw them, to a large extent, for law breakers.

I'm not so sure. Tell people criminals have no rights is giving them
cart blanch to seek retribution.

I am in two minds about this. The law is definitely too far on the side
of the burglar at the moment, but even I don't really want lynch mobs
roaming the streets looking for dropping sweet wrappers so they can be
strung up.

It seems to be human nature wanting to enforce laws. But only the laws
that individual approves of - and not those which may effect him.
Other name for this is religion.

--
*Thank you. We're all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Huge wrote:
On 2007-11-06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Huge wrote:
On 2007-11-05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Huge wrote:
Feel free to emigrate to a country that suits you better, human
rights wise. But don't be surprised when your idea of *your* rights
and those of that country don't coincide.

It's entirely possible to protect the rights of the law abiding and
withdraw them, to a large extent, for law breakers.

I'm not so sure. Tell people criminals have no rights is giving them
cart blanch to seek retribution.

I am in two minds about this. The law is definitely too far on the
side of the burglar at the moment, but even I don't really want lynch
mobs roaming the streets looking for dropping sweet wrappers so they
can be strung up.

It seems to be human nature wanting to enforce laws. But only the laws
that individual approves of - and not those which may effect him.
Other name for this is religion.

Actually, I'd scrap large parts of the law; everything that seeks to
protect people from themselves or interferes with contracts between
consenting adults. I really don't care what other people do, so long as
they leave me alone, and I genuinely don't understand why people want to
poke their noses into other people's lives - or in the case of
politicians, run their lives for them, using my money.

I agree in principle. But this is a different matter from removing rights
from those perceived as criminals. Because as I said just about everyone
does something some others might regard as criminal.
Many seem to believe it should be ok to kill or maim a burglar. Others
might think the same applies to someone who scratches your car. Others -
perhaps to someone using a mobil phone in a car or smoking in a building.
So the only fair answer is the same rights for all and leave punishment to
the law.

I think we are vastly overgoverned. But I do not see any chance of any
improvement any time soon; the output of Government being more
Government.

A party which committed to only repealing old and useless legislation for
the first term would get my vote.

--
*24 hours in a day ... 24 beers in a case ... coincidence? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Huge wrote:
On 2007-11-06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Huge wrote:
On 2007-11-05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Huge wrote:
Feel free to emigrate to a country that suits you better, human
rights wise. But don't be surprised when your idea of *your*
rights
and those of that country don't coincide.

It's entirely possible to protect the rights of the law abiding
and
withdraw them, to a large extent, for law breakers.

I'm not so sure. Tell people criminals have no rights is giving
them
cart blanch to seek retribution.

I am in two minds about this. The law is definitely too far on the
side of the burglar at the moment, but even I don't really want lynch
mobs roaming the streets looking for dropping sweet wrappers so they
can be strung up.

It seems to be human nature wanting to enforce laws. But only the laws
that individual approves of - and not those which may effect him.
Other name for this is religion.

Actually, I'd scrap large parts of the law; everything that seeks to
protect people from themselves or interferes with contracts between
consenting adults. I really don't care what other people do, so long as
they leave me alone, and I genuinely don't understand why people want to
poke their noses into other people's lives - or in the case of
politicians, run their lives for them, using my money.

I agree in principle. But this is a different matter from removing rights
from those perceived as criminals. Because as I said just about everyone
does something some others might regard as criminal.
Many seem to believe it should be ok to kill or maim a burglar. Others
might think the same applies to someone who scratches your car. Others -
perhaps to someone using a mobil phone in a car or smoking in a building.
So the only fair answer is the same rights for all and leave punishment to
the law.


So you agree that you would leave the sentancing to the judges for the
burglar who broke into an OAP's home and stole all His/Hers worldly
possesions,even their wedding ring of His/Her finger.
Scum like this deserve a months hospital admittance because its the only law
they understand and it works.
As for minor crimes scratching someones car this is far from the same crime.

"George" wrote in message
.uk...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Huge wrote:
On 2007-11-06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Huge wrote:
On 2007-11-05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Huge wrote:
Feel free to emigrate to a country that suits you better, human
rights wise. But don't be surprised when your idea of *your*
rights
and those of that country don't coincide.

It's entirely possible to protect the rights of the law abiding
and
withdraw them, to a large extent, for law breakers.

I'm not so sure. Tell people criminals have no rights is giving
them
cart blanch to seek retribution.

I am in two minds about this. The law is definitely too far on the
side of the burglar at the moment, but even I don't really want
lynch
mobs roaming the streets looking for dropping sweet wrappers so they
can be strung up.

It seems to be human nature wanting to enforce laws. But only the
laws
that individual approves of - and not those which may effect him.
Other name for this is religion.

Actually, I'd scrap large parts of the law; everything that seeks to
protect people from themselves or interferes with contracts between
consenting adults. I really don't care what other people do, so long as
they leave me alone, and I genuinely don't understand why people want
to
poke their noses into other people's lives - or in the case of
politicians, run their lives for them, using my money.

I agree in principle. But this is a different matter from removing rights
from those perceived as criminals. Because as I said just about everyone
does something some others might regard as criminal.
Many seem to believe it should be ok to kill or maim a burglar. Others
might think the same applies to someone who scratches your car. Others -
perhaps to someone using a mobil phone in a car or smoking in a building.
So the only fair answer is the same rights for all and leave punishment
to
the law.


So you agree that you would leave the sentancing to the judges for the
burglar who broke into an OAP's home and stole all His/Hers worldly
possesions,even their wedding ring of His/Her finger.
Scum like this deserve a months hospital admittance because its the only
law
they understand and it works.
As for minor crimes scratching someones car this is far from the same
crime.

Congratulations on making Dave's point for him.

In article ,
George wrote:
I agree in principle. But this is a different matter from removing
rights from those perceived as criminals. Because as I said just about
everyone does something some others might regard as criminal. Many
seem to believe it should be ok to kill or maim a burglar. Others
might think the same applies to someone who scratches your car. Others
- perhaps to someone using a mobil phone in a car or smoking in a
building. So the only fair answer is the same rights for all and leave
punishment to the law.


So you agree that you would leave the sentancing to the judges for the
burglar who broke into an OAP's home and stole all His/Hers worldly
possesions,even their wedding ring of His/Her finger.

Of course. That's the law's job. And far better than some self righteous
'hero' who is likely to get the wrong person. As as happened many many
times. Even the law manages this sometimes.

Scum like this deserve a months hospital admittance because its the only
law they understand and it works.

Does it? What proof have you of that?

As for minor crimes scratching someones car this is far from the same
crime.

Keying an expensive car could cost more in monetary terms to fix than your
fictional OP's 'worldly goods'. Might even cause more distress.

--
*Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off NOW.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
George wrote:
I agree in principle. But this is a different matter from removing
rights from those perceived as criminals. Because as I said just about
everyone does something some others might regard as criminal. Many
seem to believe it should be ok to kill or maim a burglar. Others
might think the same applies to someone who scratches your car. Others
- perhaps to someone using a mobil phone in a car or smoking in a
building. So the only fair answer is the same rights for all and leave
punishment to the law.


So you agree that you would leave the sentancing to the judges for the
burglar who broke into an OAP's home and stole all His/Hers worldly
possesions,even their wedding ring of His/Her finger.

Of course. That's the law's job. And far better than some self righteous
'hero' who is likely to get the wrong person. As as happened many many
times. Even the law manages this sometimes.


Nah! sometimes you get to know who it is thats committed the forced entry.

Scum like this deserve a months hospital admittance because its the only
law they understand and it works.

Does it? What proof have you of that?


How about returned possesions and forced out the area

As for minor crimes scratching someones car this is far from the same
crime.

Keying an expensive car could cost more in monetary terms to fix than your
fictional OP's 'worldly goods'. Might even cause more distress.


Fictional no,it happened to my mother.

Things like a car being stolen or scratched can be
replaced/repaired...Trumour&fear stays with the person.

--
*Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off NOW.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.