Hi,
does any one here have any experience of surface water disposal
and pipes etc? My parents, elderly, have been approached by a property
developer asking permission to run a pipe across their land from a new
development of 4 houses to carry surface water run off. The alternative
is a soak away. The pipe would end at a small stream at the edge of
parents property. The land is mainly trees and bracken and has not been
visited by anyone apart from me a few weeks back for many years as it is
at the bottom of a steep bank and has been left to nature. Badgers,
foxes rabbits etc. Any way the main question is what would this be worth
to parents? They have been told that the developer is willing to pay a
one off payment for the pipe but no figure has been discussed yet. There
is a very boggy area near to the stream where the out flow of a number
of septic tanks joins the stream, this has been caused because the pipe
carrying it stops about 100 feet short of the stream. Guy who laid pipe
stopped at this point for some unknown reason, it was 50 years ago. For
about 50 years before that the out flow had just run along a ditch and
into the stream.

My thoughts were that a bit of barter may be a good idea here, the
developer runs his pipe f.o.c. In exchange for finishing off the one
that carries the septic tank water thus drying out the boggy area. I do
remember in years gone by that before the very small ditch silted up the
land was not boggy and so, I would hope, it should dry out if the pipe
was extended.

A bit rambling but the main question is, how much is it worth to the
developer not to have to build a soak away in a limited space? He is
already making provision for either a septic tank or cesspit to take
sewage etc. this will be pumped out and allegedly have no water running
from it into the surface water run off. My parents are not out to make
money from the deal as they are quite content as they are but would
rather like the bog drying up!

I know "how long is a piece of string?" but any comments most welcome.
--
Bill

On 19 Jun, 20:36, Bill wrote:
Hi,
does any one here have any experience of surface water disposal
and pipes etc? My parents, elderly, have been approached by a property
developer asking permission to run a pipe across their land from a new
development of 4 houses to carry surface water run off. The alternative
is a soak away. The pipe would end at a small stream at the edge of
parents property. The land is mainly trees and bracken and has not been
visited by anyone apart from me a few weeks back for many years as it is
at the bottom of a steep bank and has been left to nature. Badgers,
foxes rabbits etc. Any way the main question is what would this be worth
to parents? They have been told that the developer is willing to pay a
one off payment for the pipe but no figure has been discussed yet. There
is a very boggy area near to the stream where the out flow of a number
of septic tanks joins the stream, this has been caused because the pipe
carrying it stops about 100 feet short of the stream. Guy who laid pipe
stopped at this point for some unknown reason, it was 50 years ago. For
about 50 years before that the out flow had just run along a ditch and
into the stream.

My thoughts were that a bit of barter may be a good idea here, the
developer runs his pipe f.o.c. In exchange for finishing off the one
that carries the septic tank water thus drying out the boggy area. I do
remember in years gone by that before the very small ditch silted up the
land was not boggy and so, I would hope, it should dry out if the pipe
was extended.

A bit rambling but the main question is, how much is it worth to the
developer not to have to build a soak away in a limited space? He is
already making provision for either a septic tank or cesspit to take
sewage etc. this will be pumped out and allegedly have no water running
from it into the surface water run off. My parents are not out to make
money from the deal as they are quite content as they are but would
rather like the bog drying up!

I know "how long is a piece of string?" but any comments most welcome.
--
Bill

My expereince of this is from the end of the devloper, some things to
think about.

Your parents will need a solicitor to represent them, the 1st thing is
to have his bill paid by the devloper, and then have the solicitor
negoiate the deal. There are issues of maintance of the pipe in future
to consider, and the land being devalued as you can't build over the
pipe. You make like to get an advisor to work out the ammount to
charge, again the devloper should pay this bill. So even if nting
happens the devloper may have 2 bills to pay.

I would guess you are looking at 5K upwards, depending on how hard it
is for the devloper to dispose of the water in any other way.

The devloper will also likley need a "consent to discharge" from the
environment agency. Depending upon the size of the stream, they could
also run the output form a package sewage treatment unit into the
stream.

Rick

"Rick" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 19 Jun, 20:36, Bill wrote:
Hi,
does any one here have any experience of surface water disposal
and pipes etc? My parents, elderly, have been approached by a property
developer asking permission to run a pipe across their land from a new
development of 4 houses to carry surface water run off. The alternative
is a soak away. The pipe would end at a small stream at the edge of
parents property. The land is mainly trees and bracken and has not been
visited by anyone apart from me a few weeks back for many years as it is
at the bottom of a steep bank and has been left to nature. Badgers,
foxes rabbits etc. Any way the main question is what would this be worth
to parents? They have been told that the developer is willing to pay a
one off payment for the pipe but no figure has been discussed yet. There
is a very boggy area near to the stream where the out flow of a number
of septic tanks joins the stream, this has been caused because the pipe
carrying it stops about 100 feet short of the stream. Guy who laid pipe
stopped at this point for some unknown reason, it was 50 years ago. For
about 50 years before that the out flow had just run along a ditch and
into the stream.

My thoughts were that a bit of barter may be a good idea here, the
developer runs his pipe f.o.c. In exchange for finishing off the one
that carries the septic tank water thus drying out the boggy area. I do
remember in years gone by that before the very small ditch silted up the
land was not boggy and so, I would hope, it should dry out if the pipe
was extended.

A bit rambling but the main question is, how much is it worth to the
developer not to have to build a soak away in a limited space? He is
already making provision for either a septic tank or cesspit to take
sewage etc. this will be pumped out and allegedly have no water running
from it into the surface water run off. My parents are not out to make
money from the deal as they are quite content as they are but would
rather like the bog drying up!

I know "how long is a piece of string?" but any comments most welcome.
--
Bill

My expereince of this is from the end of the devloper, some things to
think about.

Your parents will need a solicitor to represent them, the 1st thing is
to have his bill paid by the devloper, and then have the solicitor
negoiate the deal. There are issues of maintance of the pipe in future
to consider, and the land being devalued as you can't build over the
pipe. You make like to get an advisor to work out the ammount to
charge, again the devloper should pay this bill. So even if nting
happens the devloper may have 2 bills to pay.

I would guess you are looking at 5K upwards, depending on how hard it
is for the devloper to dispose of the water in any other way.

The devloper will also likley need a "consent to discharge" from the
environment agency. Depending upon the size of the stream, they could
also run the output form a package sewage treatment unit into the
stream.

Rick


If the watercourse is a stream then Rick is correct, the developer would
likely require a "consent to discharge" from the EA. If you parents live in
a flood area then the stream may well be a drainage ditch if the banks are
built up, in which case it would likely be managed by an Internal Drainage
Board. In such a case, consent would be required from the IDB, in addition
to a 9m easement from the bank top edge plus access to the easement for
maintenance. However, it doesn't sound as if that is the case here. The
effectiveness of a soakaway would depend on the percolation characteristics
of the soil.

If there are badgers living near where the pipe would be laid then the
developer may require an Environmetal Impact Assessment to be carried out.

AT

In message . com, Rick
writes
My expereince of this is from the end of the devloper, some things to
think about.
Perfect.



Your parents will need a solicitor to represent them, the 1st thing is
to have his bill paid by the devloper, and then have the solicitor
negoiate the deal.
There are issues of maintance of the pipe in future
to consider, and the land being devalued as you can't build over the
pipe. You make like to get an advisor to work out the ammount to
charge, again the devloper should pay this bill. So even if nting
happens the devloper may have 2 bills to pay.

We had considered the maintenance and assumed some form of right of
access for the developer/home owners, this I presume would be written
into the land registry details on my parents home and those of the new
home owners too? As for devaluation of the land we are lucky to some
extent that it is very unlikely, impossible, that it will ever be built
on or developed as it is totally inaccessible and is beside a railway
embankment so is really only of use to the wildlife that lives there.

I like the idea of the developer paying all the bills too!


I would guess you are looking at 5K upwards, depending on how hard it
is for the devloper to dispose of the water in any other way.

We had not even considered as high as 5K so that is interesting as a
figure to start bargaining from. The developer has, rather stupidly I
think, said that the council has already refused him permission to
dispose of the surface water into the drains that are in the road.



The devloper will also likley need a "consent to discharge" from the
environment agency.

Looking at a planning application that has gone in for the site this was
covered by saying that the water would be allowed to drain onto an area
of ground, which belongs to my parents! They were going to question this
any way but the developer has possibly realised he doesn't own this land
and having looked at it further found the stream, it is rather well
hidden.


Depending upon the size of the stream, they could
also run the output form a package sewage treatment unit into the
stream.

I would have thought that this would have made sense, the only question
it may bring up is if the environment agency actually realise that there
is already the out put of six septic tanks going that way at the moment.
I don't know a lot about how these things work but the water is
remarkably clean, not that I would want to drink it mind you, so I
assume that the tanks are working as they should.

It is a very out of the way rural area and strange things have been done
there before. The council couldn't understand why some fields started to
have a flooding problem a few years back, the answer was that one of the
home owners had found a broken pipe under his garden that rats were
coming out of and so he blocked it with a bag of cement, the present
owner of the house knows nothing of this!! It appears it was part of a
very old drainage system that was not recorded any where. He is now long
dead and the council put in extra drainage in the road to remove the
flood water!

I just took a look at pen-y-geulan.com is this yours? It reminds me of a
property that I used to visit that one of our neighbours owned sometime
back in Parc, not too far away.

Rick


--
Bill

In message , AT
writes

If the watercourse is a stream then Rick is correct, the developer would
likely require a "consent to discharge" from the EA. If you parents live in
a flood area then the stream may well be a drainage ditch if the banks are
built up, in which case it would likely be managed by an Internal Drainage
Board. In such a case, consent would be required from the IDB, in addition
to a 9m easement from the bank top edge plus access to the easement for
maintenance. However, it doesn't sound as if that is the case here.
Definitely not a flood area.

The
effectiveness of a soakaway would depend on the percolation characteristics
of the soil.

We were worried initially by the development as some of the land is
reclaimed. There was a quite steep slope going down 50 feet or so that
was built out with soil etc. from a power station site about 45 years
ago. Although it has not moved recently I would not fancy a house built
on it. Apparently the developer has plans to put some piles in this area
to build on. Anyway one thought that I have is that knowing this they do
not want to put any more water into the ground than they have to in case
it causes it to move.


If there are badgers living near where the pipe would be laid then the
developer may require an Environmetal Impact Assessment to be carried out.

The badgers are the other side of a small valley a couple of 100 yds
away. Although they will know what is going on it is not near their set.
There are only a very few people, close family who are aware that they
are there as we prefer to keep it quiet, there are some out there who
seem to dislike them. An interesting thought though.

Thanks AT for your comments.

AT



--
Bill

Bill wrote in message
snip
, the only question
it may bring up is if the environment agency actually realise that there
is already the out put of six septic tanks going that way at the moment.


you could be opening the biggest can of worms you have ever imagined with
this.



-

In message , Mark
writes

Bill wrote in message
snip
, the only question
it may bring up is if the environment agency actually realise that there
is already the out put of six septic tanks going that way at the moment.


you could be opening the biggest can of worms you have ever imagined with
this.

I know.

Having checked the land registry records for 3 of the existing houses
feeding their water into the stream at the moment there is no mention of
it. The thing that worries me is if something had to be done about it
what would that be and how responsible would my parents be as the pipe
ends on their property.
There again it has operated for this long and appears not to be causing
any noticeable problems.

Also that is not the present concern. Yet.............



-





--
Bill

Bill wrote:
Hi,
does any one here have any experience of surface water disposal
and pipes etc? My parents, elderly, have been approached by a property
developer asking permission to run a pipe across their land from a new
development of 4 houses to carry surface water run off. The
alternative is a soak away. The pipe would end at a small stream at
the edge of parents property. The land is mainly trees and bracken
and has not been visited by anyone apart from me a few weeks back for
many years as it is at the bottom of a steep bank and has been left
to nature. Badgers, foxes rabbits etc. Any way the main question is
what would this be worth to parents? They have been told that the
developer is willing to pay a one off payment for the pipe but no
figure has been discussed yet. There is a very boggy area near to the
stream where the out flow of a number of septic tanks joins the
stream, this has been caused because the pipe carrying it stops about
100 feet short of the stream. Guy who laid pipe stopped at this point
for some unknown reason, it was 50 years ago. For about 50 years
before that the out flow had just run along a ditch and into the
stream.

My thoughts were that a bit of barter may be a good idea here, the
developer runs his pipe f.o.c. In exchange for finishing off the one
that carries the septic tank water thus drying out the boggy area. I
do remember in years gone by that before the very small ditch silted
up the land was not boggy and so, I would hope, it should dry out if
the pipe was extended.

A bit rambling but the main question is, how much is it worth to the
developer not to have to build a soak away in a limited space? He is
already making provision for either a septic tank or cesspit to take
sewage etc. this will be pumped out and allegedly have no water
running from it into the surface water run off. My parents are not
out to make money from the deal as they are quite content as they are
but would rather like the bog drying up!

I know "how long is a piece of string?" but any comments most welcome.

Firstly, do your parents have a waste discharge to the watercourse that
the EA doesn't know about? It sounds very likely to me. Would their
neighbours be keen for a can of worms to be opened?

If the developer wants to send surface water under their land then
obviously that land is higher than your parents? Being that it is
"reclaimed land" it is probably highly unsuitable for "soakaways" and
hence the enquiry. Since the former industrial activity in the area, has
there been significant residential development in the area? If so, would
it be an opportunity to have the area properly sewered (S 101
agreements). Just thoughts. Beware the developer - he could just be in a
fix that he did not anticipate and shiny baubles could be his way out!

In message , clot
writes


Firstly, do your parents have a waste discharge to the watercourse that
the EA doesn't know about?
Quite likely.

It sounds very likely to me. Would their neighbours be keen for a can
of worms to be opened?
Most unlikely!



If the developer wants to send surface water under their land then
obviously that land is higher than your parents?
Mostly on the same level as far as habitable land is concerned. The part
they want to run their pipe and the area we could do with having dried
out is some 50' lower than theirs though.

Being that it is "reclaimed land" it is probably highly unsuitable for
"soakaways" and hence the enquiry.
My thoughts too.


Since the former industrial activity in the area,
The power station was 10 miles away, they needed to dump large amounts
of earth at little cost so the deal was that they dumped the earth etc.
for free and the land owner gained some flat land.


has there been significant residential development in the area? If so,
would it be an opportunity to have the area properly sewered (S 101
agreements).
Not that simple logistically unfortunately.


Just thoughts. Beware the developer - he could just be in a fix that he
did not anticipate and shiny baubles could be his way out!
I have the feeling that he is and is possibly regretting his purchase of
the land.

Anyway thanks to all so far for their thoughts.
--
Bill

Bill wrote:
Hi,
does any one here have any experience of surface water disposal
and pipes etc? My parents, elderly, have been approached by a property
developer asking permission to run a pipe across their land from a new
development of 4 houses to carry surface water run off. The alternative
is a soak away. The pipe would end at a small stream at the edge of
parents property. The land is mainly trees and bracken and has not been
visited by anyone apart from me a few weeks back for many years as it is
at the bottom of a steep bank and has been left to nature. Badgers,
foxes rabbits etc. Any way the main question is what would this be worth
to parents?

Wronmg question. What is it worth to developers. At least 50 grand
probably, since they would probably lose a whole plot making a soakaway
on their own land.

They have been told that the developer is willing to pay a
one off payment for the pipe but no figure has been discussed yet. There
is a very boggy area near to the stream where the out flow of a number
of septic tanks joins the stream, this has been caused because the pipe
carrying it stops about 100 feet short of the stream. Guy who laid pipe
stopped at this point for some unknown reason, it was 50 years ago. For
about 50 years before that the out flow had just run along a ditch and
into the stream.

My thoughts were that a bit of barter may be a good idea here, the
developer runs his pipe f.o.c. In exchange for finishing off the one
that carries the septic tank water thus drying out the boggy area.

Caveat. The moment someone touches that septic tank outflow, it comes
under various controls..and septic tanks are largely not allowed anyway
more - you need a biological digester. So what is the most likely
outcome is that whoever owns it would need to upgrade it.

I do
remember in years gone by that before the very small ditch silted up the
land was not boggy and so, I would hope, it should dry out if the pipe
was extended.

A bit rambling but the main question is, how much is it worth to the
developer not to have to build a soak away in a limited space? He is
already making provision for either a septic tank or cesspit to take
sewage etc. this will be pumped out and allegedly have no water running
from it into the surface water run off. My parents are not out to make
money from the deal as they are quite content as they are but would
rather like the bog drying up!

I know "how long is a piece of string?" but any comments most welcome.

IIRC a soakaway has to be a certain distance from a house - sufficiently
far that it can't use the attached postage stamp gardens anymore.

There is a soakaway pit by a new development here - for about 20 houses.
It takes up at least a whole plot.

My advice is to mutter on about 'bnot wanting to get involved' and 'have
to upgrade half the sewage systems in the area to get it all properly
sorted' and finally 'too old to want to have all those diggers trundling
across the garden...need to move away while work is done..cost a fortune'

Then wait till it goes well into 5 figures.

Mark wrote:
Bill wrote in message
snip
, the only question
it may bring up is if the environment agency actually realise that there
is already the out put of six septic tanks going that way at the moment.


you could be opening the biggest can of worms you have ever imagined with
this.



Hear hear!

-

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Wronmg question. What is it worth to developers.
True, that is what I Understood, although not what I wrote.

IIRC a soakaway has to be a certain distance from a house -
sufficiently far that it can't use the attached postage stamp gardens
anymore.

There is a soakaway pit by a new development here - for about 20
houses. It takes up at least a whole plot.
Interesting.



My advice is to mutter on about 'bnot wanting to get involved' and
'have to upgrade half the sewage systems in the area to get it all
properly sorted' and finally 'too old to want to have all those diggers
trundling across the garden...need to move away while work is
done..cost a fortune'
You missed out the most important one, "it will disturb the horse, he
will not like it!"

My mother has already started on the muttering, she has many years
experience of muttering!


Then wait till it goes well into 5 figures.
The next meeting is apparently next week so I will see what they offer
parents, who have been told not to accept the first offer, probably not
the second and then through in the request for the extension of their
pipe too. Could make for interesting watching.








--
Bill

In article ,
Bill wrote:

does any one here have any experience of surface water
disposal and pipes etc? My parents, elderly, have been approached
by a property developer asking permission to run a pipe across
their land from a new development of 4 houses to carry surface
water run off. The alternative is a soak away.
[snip]

My instinct would be to have nothing to do with it,
or him. Let him build his soakaways on his own land.

There is a very boggy area near to the stream where the out
flow of a number of septic tanks joins the stream, this has been
caused because the pipe carrying it stops about 100 feet short of
the stream. Guy who laid pipe stopped at this point for some
unknown reason, it was 50 years ago.

I wonder if the chap was trying to create a reedbed?
Reedbeds do have some respectability now. Might be
worth some research on plantings to improve it.

--
Tony Williams.

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:34:48 +0000, Mark wrote:


Bill wrote in message
snip
, the only question
it may bring up is if the environment agency actually realise that there
is already the out put of six septic tanks going that way at the moment.


you could be opening the biggest can of worms you have ever imagined with
this.



================================
Despite the risks it might be a very good opportunity to get the whole
situation regularised - probably at the developer's expense. His new
houses appear to be worthless white elephants unless he can get rid of the
surplus water. I doubt if you can hide the output of six septic tanks
forever so it might be to your advantage to find out how they came to be
there in the first place.

Cic.
--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

In message , Tony Williams
writes
I wonder if the chap was trying to create a reedbed?
Reedbeds do have some respectability now. Might be
worth some research on plantings to improve it.

I thought of that, could be an interesting idea, it was not his original
idea though. He took the pipe as far as he thought necessary at the time
and then stopped and let it run in a small ditch to the stream.
Unfortunately as it is well away from where people normally go, only a
rather adventurous Welsh Cob dares go there, it has become over grown
and well trodden over by the horse and his predecessors.

--
Bill

Cicero wrote in message
news
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:34:48 +0000, Mark wrote:


Bill wrote in message
snip
, the only question
it may bring up is if the environment agency actually realise that
there
is already the out put of six septic tanks going that way at the
moment.


you could be opening the biggest can of worms you have ever imagined
with
this.



================================
Despite the risks it might be a very good opportunity to get the whole
situation regularised - probably at the developer's expense.

If the other 6 septic tanks discharge on to the OPs land by way of a
covenant, it could fall solely to the OP to comply with any EA pollution
discharge notice into a watercourse.
Expensive would be an understatement ;(




-

On 19 Jun, 22:33, Bill wrote:
In message . com, Rick
writesMy expereince of this is from the end of the devloper, some things to
think about.

Perfect.



Your parents will need a solicitor to represent them, the 1st thing is
to have his bill paid by the devloper, and then have the solicitor
negoiate the deal.
There are issues of maintance of the pipe in future
to consider, and the land being devalued as you can't build over the
pipe. You make like to get an advisor to work out the ammount to
charge, again the devloper should pay this bill. So even if nting
happens the devloper may have 2 bills to pay.

We had considered the maintenance and assumed some form of right of
access for the developer/home owners, this I presume would be written
into the land registry details on my parents home and those of the new
home owners too? As for devaluation of the land we are lucky to some
extent that it is very unlikely, impossible, that it will ever be built
on or developed as it is totally inaccessible and is beside a railway
embankment so is really only of use to the wildlife that lives there.

I like the idea of the developer paying all the bills too!



I would guess you are looking at 5K upwards, depending on how hard it
is for the devloper to dispose of the water in any other way.

We had not even considered as high as 5K so that is interesting as a
figure to start bargaining from. The developer has, rather stupidly I
think, said that the council has already refused him permission to
dispose of the surface water into the drains that are in the road.



The devloper will also likley need a "consent to discharge" from the
environment agency.

Looking at a planning application that has gone in for the site this was
covered by saying that the water would be allowed to drain onto an area
of ground, which belongs to my parents! They were going to question this
any way but the developer has possibly realised he doesn't own this land
and having looked at it further found the stream, it is rather well
hidden.

Depending upon the size of the stream, they could
also run the output form a package sewage treatment unit into the
stream.

I would have thought that this would have made sense, the only question
it may bring up is if the environment agency actually realise that there
is already the out put of six septic tanks going that way at the moment.
I don't know a lot about how these things work but the water is
remarkably clean, not that I would want to drink it mind you, so I
assume that the tanks are working as they should.

It is a very out of the way rural area and strange things have been done
there before. The council couldn't understand why some fields started to
have a flooding problem a few years back, the answer was that one of the
home owners had found a broken pipe under his garden that rats were
coming out of and so he blocked it with a bag of cement, the present
owner of the house knows nothing of this!! It appears it was part of a
very old drainage system that was not recorded any where. He is now long
dead and the council put in extra drainage in the road to remove the
flood water!

I just took a look at pen-y-geulan.com is this yours? It reminds me of a
property that I used to visit that one of our neighbours owned sometime
back in Parc, not too far away.



Rick

--
Bill

I'd start thinking more towards 50K if the PP says the devloper will
dispose of water onto your land, especially if all his other options
are limited, and the houses are built. 5K was a low figure so you did
not get excited.

The "consent to disharge" is relativly new, so old stuff running into
a streak is ok, but mist new stuff requires it.

try www.pen-y-geulan.com/diy for my DIY project. we don't rent the
cottage out any more. I need to tity up the website.

Rick

"Rick" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 19 Jun, 22:33, Bill wrote:
In message . com, Rick
writesMy expereince of this is from the end of
the devloper, some things to
think about.

Perfect.



Your parents will need a solicitor to represent them, the 1st thing is
to have his bill paid by the devloper, and then have the solicitor
negoiate the deal.
There are issues of maintance of the pipe in future
to consider, and the land being devalued as you can't build over the
pipe. You make like to get an advisor to work out the ammount to
charge, again the devloper should pay this bill. So even if nting
happens the devloper may have 2 bills to pay.

We had considered the maintenance and assumed some form of right of
access for the developer/home owners, this I presume would be written
into the land registry details on my parents home and those of the new
home owners too? As for devaluation of the land we are lucky to some
extent that it is very unlikely, impossible, that it will ever be built
on or developed as it is totally inaccessible and is beside a railway
embankment so is really only of use to the wildlife that lives there.

I like the idea of the developer paying all the bills too!



I would guess you are looking at 5K upwards, depending on how hard it
is for the devloper to dispose of the water in any other way.

We had not even considered as high as 5K so that is interesting as a
figure to start bargaining from. The developer has, rather stupidly I
think, said that the council has already refused him permission to
dispose of the surface water into the drains that are in the road.



The devloper will also likley need a "consent to discharge" from the
environment agency.

Looking at a planning application that has gone in for the site this was
covered by saying that the water would be allowed to drain onto an area
of ground, which belongs to my parents! They were going to question this
any way but the developer has possibly realised he doesn't own this land
and having looked at it further found the stream, it is rather well
hidden.

Depending upon the size of the stream, they could
also run the output form a package sewage treatment unit into the
stream.

I would have thought that this would have made sense, the only question
it may bring up is if the environment agency actually realise that there
is already the out put of six septic tanks going that way at the moment.
I don't know a lot about how these things work but the water is
remarkably clean, not that I would want to drink it mind you, so I
assume that the tanks are working as they should.

It is a very out of the way rural area and strange things have been done
there before. The council couldn't understand why some fields started to
have a flooding problem a few years back, the answer was that one of the
home owners had found a broken pipe under his garden that rats were
coming out of and so he blocked it with a bag of cement, the present
owner of the house knows nothing of this!! It appears it was part of a
very old drainage system that was not recorded any where. He is now long
dead and the council put in extra drainage in the road to remove the
flood water!

I just took a look at pen-y-geulan.com is this yours? It reminds me of a
property that I used to visit that one of our neighbours owned sometime
back in Parc, not too far away.



Rick

--
Bill

I'd start thinking more towards 50K if the PP says the devloper will
dispose of water onto your land, especially if all his other options
are limited, and the houses are built. 5K was a low figure so you did
not get excited.

The "consent to disharge" is relativly new, so old stuff running into
a streak is ok, but mist new stuff requires it.

try www.pen-y-geulan.com/diy for my DIY project. we don't rent the
cottage out any more. I need to tity up the website.

Rick


You have Mr Developer over a large barrel & can pretty much name your price.
Work out what the property would sell for and works backwards from the
figure. i.e if builder is looking for £100k profit, depending on how greedy
you are id start at £50k. He`s got no choice in having to settle with you
from what i`ve read

Richard

In message , fullflow plumbing
writes

Hi Rick and Richard,
I've just spent a weekend in a rather wet
Pitlochry and then have to come back to thinking of even more water!


I'd start thinking more towards 50K if the PP says the devloper will
dispose of water onto your land, especially if all his other options
are limited, and the houses are built. 5K was a low figure so you did
not get excited.

Today I received an offer from him which is lower than the above so I am
tempted to write back that I was expecting something higher but without
stating a figure and see where he goes. There again I was also tempted
to state a figure and meet him in the middle but as his figure is so low
I might just wait and see what his 2nd one will be.
The problem is that he does have the option of a soak away and if I take
it too high that will become his answer. So I don't want to push it too
far. Although the soak away is going to be far from ideal because of
clay in one area and reclaimed ground in another. Apparently the clay
layer is 8 feet thick so he will have to go below this.



The "consent to disharge" is relativly new, so old stuff running into
a streak is ok, but mist new stuff requires it.

That could save us some hassle, I've looked at the deeds etc. and there
is only mention of pipes crossing neighbours gardens and no mention of
the final discharge. I have found that there are only 3 houses and not 6
using this route though. The 3 I had thought also used it in fact go
into the council system that is slightly higher and runs down the public
road. ( In a pipe before any one comes up with a witty comment.)



try www.pen-y-geulan.com/diy for my DIY project. we don't rent the
cottage out any more. I need to tity up the website.

I'll take a look in a moment.

Rick




You have Mr Developer over a large barrel & can pretty much name your price.

Don't forget the soak away option though.


Work out what the property would sell for and works backwards from the
figure. i.e if builder is looking for £100k profit, depending on how greedy
you are id start at £50k. He`s got no choice in having to settle with you
from what i`ve read

There are to be 4 - 5 houses on the plot, without finding my copy of the
plans I'm not sure if 4 or 5 right now, it's difficult thinking straight
after 3 days with little sleep! I seem to recall an approximate price of
£400 -500K each so the figures we are talking about would be a very
small percentage of the final sale price.

I just hope he doesn't read uk.diy there again it may speed up
negotiations if he knew of your suggestions.


Richard



--
Bill

On Jun 19, 5:36 pm, Bill wrote:
Hi,
does any one here have any experience of surface water disposal
and pipes etc? My parents, elderly, have been approached by a property
developer asking permission to run a pipe across their land ..... snip ....
..
Sitting here on the other side of the ocean with very little
knowledge, if any, of British regulations and law but having read the
suggestions posted; my personal inclination would be to do nothing at
all. Don't get involved.

Reasons;
a) Opening the can of worms about septic outfalls!
b) It's up to the developer to get his plans approved and satisfy 'the
authorities', how come he is already building without a plan for
disposing of sewage?
c) Once the houses are sold and their titles are in the hands of the
new owners the developer will be 'off the hook'! Free to go somewhere
and build something else and sell that and again move on.
d) Dealing with several newer neighbours if/when future trouble occurs
might not be pleasant and might be costly for (presumably more
elderly) parents and if dissent occurred might affect value of their
property. Or even prevent it's sale.
e) Suppose there is a lot more affluent than presently anticipated;
bigger families, draining/pumping excessive rainfall, emptying a
future swimming pool etc.

At very least; get a lawyer who is skilled in these matters on the
basis that the developer (who may be out of business 18 months from
now? Or operating under another name?) pays for all costs and deposits
a security bond to be held in escrow against potential future problems
for the next 'x' years. Based on the suggested value of the four
houses (1.6 million???) a 20,000 pound bond might be suitable?

Personally I wouldn't accede to the request and/or touch it with a
barge pole.

Two Canadian cents from here.

terry wrote:
On Jun 19, 5:36 pm, Bill wrote:
Hi,
does any one here have any experience of surface water disposal
and pipes etc? My parents, elderly, have been approached by a property
developer asking permission to run a pipe across their land ..... snip ....
.
Sitting here on the other side of the ocean with very little
knowledge, if any, of British regulations and law but having read the
suggestions posted; my personal inclination would be to do nothing at
all. Don't get involved.

Reasons;
a) Opening the can of worms about septic outfalls!
b) It's up to the developer to get his plans approved and satisfy 'the
authorities', how come he is already building without a plan for
disposing of sewage?
c) Once the houses are sold and their titles are in the hands of the
new owners the developer will be 'off the hook'! Free to go somewhere
and build something else and sell that and again move on.
d) Dealing with several newer neighbours if/when future trouble occurs
might not be pleasant and might be costly for (presumably more
elderly) parents and if dissent occurred might affect value of their
property. Or even prevent it's sale.
e) Suppose there is a lot more affluent than presently anticipated;
bigger families, draining/pumping excessive rainfall, emptying a
future swimming pool etc.

At very least; get a lawyer who is skilled in these matters on the
basis that the developer (who may be out of business 18 months from
now? Or operating under another name?) pays for all costs and deposits
a security bond to be held in escrow against potential future problems
for the next 'x' years. Based on the suggested value of the four
houses (1.6 million???) a 20,000 pound bond might be suitable?

Personally I wouldn't accede to the request and/or touch it with a
barge pole.

Two Canadian cents from here.

Fair comment.

Another possibility is that you sell a strip of land to the developer,
thus all issues pertaining to it become somebody elses problem..

In message , Bill
writes
In message , Tony Williams
writes
I wonder if the chap was trying to create a reedbed?
Reedbeds do have some respectability now. Might be
worth some research on plantings to improve it.

I thought of that, could be an interesting idea, it was not his original idea
though. He took the pipe as far as he thought necessary at the time and
then stopped and let it run in a small ditch to the stream. Unfortunately
as it is well away from where people normally go, only a rather
adventurous Welsh Cob dares go there, it has become over grown and
well trodden over by the horse and his predecessors.


If anyone remembers this thread from a while back here is an update.
After long and marginally tortuous investigation I have decided that I
DO NOT like drains.

We came to a reasonable agreement with the developers over the
run of their pipe and they are also going to extend ours. This was fine
until we looked further into the existing pipe. At sometime in the last
10-15 years some one had attached a 3" land drain into our pipe work,
this carried the out flow from 2 small ponds, not a major problem in
itself apart from the fact we did not know they had done it! Plus it
added a lot more flow to the "small ditch" at the end of the pipe during
wet weather.

Any way the "water" was coming out of the ground 20m or so
before where I thought the end of the pipe should be, on digging down I
found that a join in the pipes had moved slightly. The water was now
running in roughly the same route as the pipe but above ground. This had
caused the bog to increase somewhat in size! Also there were areas that
were decidedly dangerous, in one part I could push a spade down to its
handle without applying much pressure, this was the area where my
wellies were temporarily lost! Have you ever stood in mud etc. in
stocking feet? A novel experience.
Following the route of the pipe and after a lot of probing with
a length of 15mm copper pipe I eventually found the end and dug down to
it. Surprisingly enough there was no flow from the pipe, after pushing
some rods up it and dislodging some of its contents I found a sponge and
a quantity of cloth strips, no guesses as to what these once were.
(These were tracked back to an incident sometime back involving 2
teenage girls who managed to totally block their parents septic tank!)
I only managed to get the rods to go about 6m up the pipe before they
would go no further, not really the right direction for rodding!

I think my next action will be to call in a professional to jet the pipe
and try to remove as much debris as possible, hopefully if this works
and there is a reasonable flow the bad joint can be made good and then
things should be almost back to normal. We have also finally
ascertained that there are 5 septic tanks emptying into the system, one
appears to have been added about 15 years ago by running a pipe across a
field into one of the others inspection tanks, with their permission,
but without our knowledge. I also intend this week to write to all
concerned to a) inform them as to what is happening and b) to suggest
that they may like to contribute a share of the cost of the jetting and
any other work that is needed. I have spoken to 3 of them already and
they are OK with what has gone on so far but one is away and it also
seems sensible to put it in print rather than just verbal.

Once this is done the developers have agreed to extend the pipe using
plastic as far as the main water course.

Something else I discovered over the last week is that a small pond has
been built about 500m down stream of our land and the other side of a
railway line. ( the area seems to be populated by serial pond
builders!). I wonder if the owners know where some of their pond water
comes from? I'm going to have a chat with them next time I'm there.
It could have been interesting to see it yesterday though as I used
fluorescien dye to check on the source of some of the water.

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;js...STHZOCFEY?_dyn
charset=UTF-8&fh_search=drain+dye&x=14&y=8

Also the environmental agency are to be involved as the new development
have to get their permission to add to the water course, it should be
"interesting" to see their views on the existing set up.

All good fun, I DO NOT like drains.

--
Bill