David Hansen wrote:

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 08:02:23 +0000 someone who may be Dave Fawthrop
wrote this:-


The EU has a voting system. I have been as a delegate in such a system
and had say to my people "Sorry, I voted against, but I was outvoted"


Indeed. Voting systems also exist in the Westminster parliament and
the town hall.

So why do the guvmint employ whips, if it is a democracy?

Dave

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 15:48:34 GMT, "Brian Sharrock"
wrote:


"Owain" wrote in message
...
Huge wrote:
I have been serially astonished at the speed with which the following
products disappeared from the mainstream; Betamax, LPs, CRT TVs and VHS.
Doubtless there are more.
I intend to start stocking up on the weird sizes and wattages of light
bulbs, starting now.

I think I might buy a spare dial for the telephone while I'm at it. The
impulsing can go out of spec after the first seventy years or so.

Owain

Just tap the handset receiver bar at the correct tempo! It's (used to be)
a good 'party trick!

tap-tap-tap ...... tap-tap-tap-tap ..... etc. ....brrr-brr.

And more ... ;-)

DG

"Derek Geldard" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 15:48:34 GMT, "Brian Sharrock"
wrote:


"Owain" wrote in message
...
Huge wrote:
I have been serially astonished at the speed with which the following
products disappeared from the mainstream; Betamax, LPs, CRT TVs and
VHS.
Doubtless there are more.
I intend to start stocking up on the weird sizes and wattages of light
bulbs, starting now.

I think I might buy a spare dial for the telephone while I'm at it. The
impulsing can go out of spec after the first seventy years or so.

Owain

Just tap the handset receiver bar at the correct tempo! It's (used to
be)
a good 'party trick!

tap-tap-tap ...... tap-tap-tap-tap ..... etc. ....brrr-brr.

And more ... ;-)

DG

Thank the uniselectors for the '..... ' and boredom / laziness for the
'etc'
We used to tap the pulses for internal three-digit Automatic exchange
internal numbers .
Full umpteen digit STD numbers ? ...

--

Brian

"Dave" wrote in message
...

....

And oven lamps, and microwave lamps, and other low usage lamps (toilets)
that do not need to be on all the time.

Once our toilet light is on (when the sun sets) it's on until the sun rises.

Low energy lamps are not recommended for these uses. They do not like
short illumination.


The EU is proposing that sale of non CFL bulbs be made illegal in *five*
years time. Lots of time for CFL replacements for these to be designed
and
marketed.

Who is this EU that dictates to us, without our 'democratically' elected
MPs voting on a yes or no.

Especially as we, the voters, do not even have a say in what is decided on
in this so called democratic presidential, non cabinet government. :-((

We have no say in ANYTHING.

Democracy?

"Derek Geldard" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 08:34:14 +0000, David Hansen
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 08:02:23 +0000 someone who may be Dave Fawthrop
wrote this:-

The EU has a voting system. I have been as a delegate in such a system
and had say to my people "Sorry, I voted against, but I was outvoted"

Indeed. Voting systems also exist in the Westminster parliament and
the town hall.

You are probably better informed than I.

Are all these countless directives emanating from Brussels the result
of a democratic voting process ?

The ones I look at are usually just stamped "Done in Brussels"
(doesn't give much away, that) and countersigned by Belgian
bureaucrat.

"Done in Leeds"

Are you in Leeds?

Mary

DG

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 12:09:03 +0000 someone who may be Derek Geldard
wrote this:-

Are all these countless directives emanating from Brussels the result
of a democratic voting process ?

Many things emanating from the EU have been the result of consensus.
If one country objects then it doesn't happen. That is what is
called a veto and it is something the Mad Woman of Finchley bleated
about often.

Not so mad then.

"John" wrote in message
...



What are we meant to do with all the security lights where CFLs won't
work?

What about my sitting room lights on a dimmer?

What about my "candle" bulb fittings where a CFL won't fit?

How am I meant to recycle those pesky CFLs when I can't dispose of them
in the rubbish (landfill prohibition)?

Grrrr!
--
John Alexander,

ME ME ME!

No US US US!!!!

No, I can't be alone in not having such a security light, a dimmer or being
concerned about candle bulbs.

Mary

"Owain" wrote in message
...
wrote:
What about lava lamps?
I guess you'll be required to fit a CFL and a heating element. To
shield the CFL from the element you'll need a dual pane glass
insulating unit, argon filled to meet BS 17459268949475483 for Lava
Lamps. This may only be fitted by an approved Fensa registered fitter
with the extra Lava module NVQ. The result will be lava lamps now cost
£150 and up. Oh, and energy efficiency is precisely the same.
And since the glass insulator seals are found to split in time, the
glass filling with nesting insects, you'll have to have your glass
insulating device replaced every 4 years at a cost of £149.95.

Or you could buy a new one from Ikea for 49p ( + VAT = £11.33)

You know, maths isn't my strongest asset but even I can't work the sum of
49p + 17.5% to come to £11.33 ...

Although I suppose it depends on what the value of 49p is ...

Mary

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 07:47:02 +0000, David Hansen
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 00:24:20 +0000 someone who may be Dave
wrote this:-

Low energy lamps are not recommended for these uses. They do not like
short illumination.

That was the case in the early 1980s, when these bulbs were
introduced to the public. However, engineering has advanced since
then and there are models that cope with reasonably short on
periods as long as you are wearing a military grade image intensifier on your head.

Fixing typo


--

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 20:10:38 GMT, "Brian Sharrock"
wrote:


Thank the uniselectors for the '..... ' and boredom / laziness for the
'etc'
We used to tap the pulses for internal three-digit Automatic exchange
internal numbers .
Full umpteen digit STD numbers ? ...

That wouldn't work in STD days, however before STD ...

You could tap out the local dialling code to an adjacent exchange, and
from there you could tap out, it's local dialling code to an adjacent
exchange ... USW, USW, USW.

IE Leeds Cleckheaton Brighouse Huddersfield Slaithwaite
Marsden Oldham Chadderton Manchester {Local Number]

Not a nec. a working example BTW.

Allegedly the eagle eared engineers in the exchange could detect the
abnormal dialling cadence (In amongst the racket of say 400 other
calls being dialled at 10 PPS, so they say), and get a trace on you.

DG

In article , David Hansen
writes
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:53:59 +0000 someone who may be John
wrote this:-

What are we meant to do with all the security lights where CFLs won't
work?

I doubt if linear halogen lights will be eradicated in the short
term. However, low powered dusk to dawn lights are better at
deterring criminals.

I walked to the station this morning and counted 8 security lights with
filament bulbs - you know the bulkhead or carriage lamp with PIR type
and a further 26 front door/outside lights none of which could take a
CFL. I didn't observe any with a CFL or which could readily take a CFL.

At my Church I have changed every bulb I can to CFL, but there are still
about 25 spot lights which I can't replace the standard PAR(something)
with a CFL and get the same effect, nor the three bulkhead based PIR
security lights - I tried and it went phut and sulked until it had a
real bulb!

I am very happy to try and recycle, to save energy, to use timeswitches,
but why force me to use a bulb which "probably" costs more energy to
make AND recycle than a cheapo one?

--
John Alexander,

Remove NOSPAM if replying by e-mail

In uk.d-i-y, John wrote:
I walked to the station this morning and counted 8 security lights with
filament bulbs - you know the bulkhead or carriage lamp with PIR type
and a further 26 front door/outside lights none of which could take a
CFL. I didn't observe any with a CFL or which could readily take a CFL.

AAMOI, how do you know they couldn't take a CFL? Is it an electrical or
a mechanical problem? We have two such lights (PIR-operated bulkhead
lights), different designs, and I fitted them both with CFLs a couple of
years ago, no problem.

--
Mike Barnes

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 21:54:11 +0000, John wrote:

In article , David Hansen
writes
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:53:59 +0000 someone who may be John
wrote this:-

What are we meant to do with all the security lights where CFLs won't
work?

I doubt if linear halogen lights will be eradicated in the short
term. However, low powered dusk to dawn lights are better at
deterring criminals.

I walked to the station this morning and counted 8 security lights with
filament bulbs - you know the bulkhead or carriage lamp with PIR type
and a further 26 front door/outside lights none of which could take a
CFL. I didn't observe any with a CFL or which could readily take a CFL.

At my Church I have changed every bulb I can to CFL, but there are still
about 25 spot lights which I can't replace the standard PAR(something)
with a CFL and get the same effect, nor the three bulkhead based PIR
security lights - I tried and it went phut and sulked until it had a
real bulb!

I realistically can't see filament lamps being replaced in the near
future for such applications as theatrical spots, floods and so on,
which require almost instantaneous turn-on (stage dimmer packs use
pre-heat to keep the lamp 'almost' on until it's required).
LED lamps approaching anywhere near 1 or 2 kW 'equivalence' are surely
a long way off.
How dimmable (properly) are LEDs?

--
Frank Erskine

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 07:42:32 +0000, David Hansen wrote:

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:53:59 +0000 someone who may be John
wrote this:-

What are we meant to do with all the security lights where CFLs won't
work?

I doubt if linear halogen lights will be eradicated in the short
term. However, low powered dusk to dawn lights are better at
deterring criminals.

What about my sitting room lights on a dimmer?

Very inefficient. Dimmed bulbs consume nearly as much electricity as
undimmed ones.

But they do allow you to vary the lighting depending upon your requirements
of the moment, such as when entering our children's bedroom when one of
them wakes at night and only putting on a dim light, enough to see by,
without waking the other child or for mood lighting.

What about my "candle" bulb fittings where a CFL won't fit?

http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/var...l.asp?var=3293 and the
like won't fit?

We use CFLs in our living-room wall lights, but can't in the centre lights
- the fittings have a clearance of only about 12mm from the top of a
standard candle bulb (the bulb has to be angled to get it in) and candle
CFLs are quite a bit longer. We do however mainly use just the wall lights,
but if we can no longer get bulbs for the centre lights, we will have to
spend hundreds of pounds replacing all the existing fittings - incidentally
losing a design that we particularly like.

How am I meant to recycle those pesky CFLs when I can't dispose of them
in the rubbish (landfill prohibition)?

Ask your council.

Steve W

In message , Mike Barnes
writes
AAMOI, how do you know they couldn't take a CFL? Is it an electrical or
a mechanical problem? We have two such lights (PIR-operated bulkhead
lights), different designs, and I fitted them both with CFLs a couple
of years ago, no problem.

Might have been triac operated. The CFL load would cause latching and
triggering problems.

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

In message , Frank Erskine
writes
How dimmable (properly) are LEDs?

With pulse width modulation you can accurately dim an LED from full
output to 0.01% with digital accuracy.

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

In uk.d-i-y, Clive Mitchell wrote:
In message , Mike Barnes
writes
AAMOI, how do you know they couldn't take a CFL? Is it an electrical
or a mechanical problem? We have two such lights (PIR-operated
bulkhead lights), different designs, and I fitted them both with CFLs
a couple of years ago, no problem.

Might have been triac operated. The CFL load would cause latching and
triggering problems.

OK, but can you tell that by looking at them while walking past on the
street?

--
Mike Barnes

Clive Mitchell wrote:
In message , Frank Erskine
writes
How dimmable (properly) are LEDs?

With pulse width modulation you can accurately dim an LED from full
output to 0.01% with digital accuracy.

But they strobe abominably.

Maybe a capacitor would help..

In uk.d-i-y, Steve Walker wrote:
We use CFLs in our living-room wall lights, but can't in the centre lights
- the fittings have a clearance of only about 12mm from the top of a
standard candle bulb (the bulb has to be angled to get it in) and candle
CFLs are quite a bit longer. We do however mainly use just the wall lights,
but if we can no longer get bulbs for the centre lights, we will have to
spend hundreds of pounds replacing all the existing fittings - incidentally
losing a design that we particularly like.

Well, if it's offending your taste in living-room light fittings or
global catastrophe, it's obvious what's more important, innit? :-)

Seriously, though, it needn't be that bad. A few years ago, when CFLs
were a lot clunkier than they are today, I went round this (quite large)
house replacing every standard-fitting (BC or ES) bulb with a CFL. There
were about 50 bulbs in all. Out of that lot, four fittings (one of one
type and three of another, all wall lights) had to be replaced. Although
I found it objectionable at the time, I replaced the four fittings
(quite cheaply, as it turned out) because I Knew It Made Sense, and I've
never regretted it.

My guess is that a future phasing-out of incandescent lamps will start
with standard BS/ES fittings, where the vast bulk of the savings are to
be made, and the more esoteric types will follow quite some time later.

--
Mike Barnes

On 2007-03-16 08:45:35 +0000, Mike Barnes said:

In uk.d-i-y, Steve Walker wrote:
We use CFLs in our living-room wall lights, but can't in the centre lights
- the fittings have a clearance of only about 12mm from the top of a
standard candle bulb (the bulb has to be angled to get it in) and candle
CFLs are quite a bit longer. We do however mainly use just the wall lights,
but if we can no longer get bulbs for the centre lights, we will have to
spend hundreds of pounds replacing all the existing fittings - incidentally
losing a design that we particularly like.

Well, if it's offending your taste in living-room light fittings or
global catastrophe, it's obvious what's more important, innit? :-)

Yes, it is, because the suggestion that "global catastrophe:" or
anything approaching it
can be remotely influenced by whether or not crappy CFL bulbs are used
in domestic
property is patent nonsense.

This is imply a ruse to "give the plebs something to do" which will
have the effect of making
the gullible feel good while diverting the issue away from the major
contributions of CO2 - always
assuming that it is accepted that climate change is as a result of CO2
emission and that man
has some ability to influence it.


Seriously, though, it needn't be that bad.

It is that bad. The light quality of these things remains apalling.

A few years ago, when CFLs
were a lot clunkier than they are today, I went round this (quite large)
house replacing every standard-fitting (BC or ES) bulb with a CFL. There
were about 50 bulbs in all. Out of that lot, four fittings (one of one
type and three of another, all wall lights) had to be replaced. Although
I found it objectionable at the time, I replaced the four fittings
(quite cheaply, as it turned out) because I Knew It Made Sense, and I've
never regretted it.

My guess is that a future phasing-out of incandescent lamps will start
with standard BS/ES fittings, where the vast bulk of the savings are to
be made, and the more esoteric types will follow quite some time later.

If at all. I am sure that ways will be found around this nonsense,
if it ever happens.

This is the first time that I can think of where the development of a
new lighting technology
is coupled with attempts to explicitly remove others from the market by
legislation.

We can still buy candles, oil for oil lamps and the mantles etc. for
gas lamps. The free market
has moved in the direction of electric lighting by choice.

Likewise, the free market should be allowed to decide this issue as
well. The two basic arguments
being made by the CFL lobby are that money is saved and that there is
an improvement in CO2
emissions. Buying patterns and shelf space indicate otherwise and it
is then said
that people are taking a short term, purchase outlay view as opposed to
the life cost.
This may be true to some extent.

However, the moment that there is a suggestion of legislation to remove
a product from the market
as opposed to allowing people to make their own decisions indicates
that the arguments
were weak in the first place, which they are.

On 2007-03-16 07:56:15 +0000, Mike Barnes said:

In uk.d-i-y, Clive Mitchell wrote:
In message , Mike Barnes
writes
AAMOI, how do you know they couldn't take a CFL? Is it an electrical
or a mechanical problem? We have two such lights (PIR-operated
bulkhead lights), different designs, and I fitted them both with CFLs
a couple of years ago, no problem.

Might have been triac operated. The CFL load would cause latching and
triggering problems.

OK, but can you tell that by looking at them while walking past on the
street?

Absolutely. I can see any of them quite distinctly from the light
quality, whether
it's walking past them in the street, walking into a hotel room, or
anywhere else.

The one application that I would consider for CFLs is outside,
overnight security
lighting, because basically I don't have to look at the light from the things.

On 2007-03-16 09:02:00 +0000, Huge said:

On 2007-03-15, Derek Geldard wrote:
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 20:10:38 GMT, "Brian Sharrock"
wrote:


Thank the uniselectors for the '..... ' and boredom / laziness for the
'etc'
We used to tap the pulses for internal three-digit Automatic exchange
internal numbers .
Full umpteen digit STD numbers ? ...

That wouldn't work in STD days, however before STD ...

You could tap out the local dialling code to an adjacent exchange, and
from there you could tap out, it's local dialling code to an adjacent
exchange ... USW, USW, USW.

IE Leeds Cleckheaton Brighouse Huddersfield Slaithwaite
Marsden Oldham Chadderton Manchester {Local Number]

At 3dB loss per exchange, the ensuing call wasn't much fun.

Much easier to use the UAX13 "STD access" bug.

(Dear Mr. BT Investigation Department; this was all 30+ years ago. These
days I pay my phone bill, OK?)

I wonder what would have happened if one were to dial the codes back and forth
or in a circle back to the starting exchange.

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:

I wonder what would have happened if one were to dial the codes
back and forth or in a circle back to the starting exchange.

When I worked at Ferranti in Bracknell, (before
STD), one of the lunchtime competitions was to
do exactly that. You needed two phones near to
each other, both with direct dial out. Then tap
from local exchange to local exchange and finally
back to the nearby phone. The winner of course
was the one who went through the highest number
of exchanges.

Reminiscent of "All Gas and Gaiters" and their
railway competition. The quickest place to place
using Bradshaw's Timetables book.

Jeez. That's showing my age.

--
Tony Williams.

"Tony Williams" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:

I wonder what would have happened if one were to dial the codes
back and forth or in a circle back to the starting exchange.

When I worked at Ferranti in Bracknell, (before
STD), one of the lunchtime competitions was to
do exactly that. You needed two phones near to
each other, both with direct dial out. Then tap
from local exchange to local exchange and finally
back to the nearby phone. The winner of course
was the one who went through the highest number
of exchanges.


Omigod! Was this 'game' introduced to Bracknell by an expatriate Scouse
who'd worked at ATE ? We played it too ... then came Crossbar.

Reminiscent of "All Gas and Gaiters" and their
railway competition. The quickest place to place
using Bradshaw's Timetables book.

Jeez. That's showing my age.

--
Tony Williams.

--

Brian

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
With pulse width modulation you can accurately dim an LED from full
output to 0.01% with digital accuracy.

But they strobe abominably.

Maybe a capacitor would help..

Not if the PWM is done at a high enough frequency. In some cheap disco
lights the PWM was done at something like 50Hz which they then tried to
hide by softening the edge with a capacitor on the input of the drive
transistor. Their low frequency was down to trying to achieve too much
from a common processor.

My own control system for RGB colour changing uses a PWM frequency of
about 350Hz to avoid flicker.

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

In article ,
Brian Sharrock wrote:

"Tony Williams" wrote
When I worked at Ferranti in Bracknell, (before
STD), one of the lunchtime competitions was to
do exactly that.......

Omigod! Was this 'game' introduced to Bracknell by an expatriate
Scouse who'd worked at ATE ? We played it too ... then came
Crossbar.

I don't know where it came from. Such things would
be all the rage for a few months, then off onto
something else.

--
Tony Williams.

Clive Mitchell wrote:
In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
With pulse width modulation you can accurately dim an LED from full
output to 0.01% with digital accuracy.

But they strobe abominably.

Maybe a capacitor would help..

Not if the PWM is done at a high enough frequency. In some cheap disco
lights the PWM was done at something like 50Hz which they then tried to
hide by softening the edge with a capacitor on the input of the drive
transistor. Their low frequency was down to trying to achieve too much
from a common processor.

My own control system for RGB colour changing uses a PWM frequency of
about 350Hz to avoid flicker.

Sill get strobing effects.
Most disturbing.

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
My own control system for RGB colour changing uses a PWM frequency
of about 350Hz to avoid flicker.

Sill get strobing effects.
Most disturbing.

Only if swished back and forth vigorously to make the effect visible.
Still less than a traditional fluorescent tube or discharge lamp by a
large margin.

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

On Mar 14, 7:50 pm, John Rumm wrote:

lots of time to stockpile filament bulbs and say **** em.

Yep, I'll make space alongside my stockpile of red and black T&E.

In uk.d-i-y, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-03-16 07:56:15 +0000, Mike Barnes said:

In uk.d-i-y, Clive Mitchell wrote:
In message , Mike Barnes
writes
AAMOI, how do you know they couldn't take a CFL? Is it an electrical
or a mechanical problem? We have two such lights (PIR-operated
bulkhead lights), different designs, and I fitted them both with CFLs
a couple of years ago, no problem.
Might have been triac operated. The CFL load would cause latching
and
triggering problems.
OK, but can you tell that by looking at them while walking past on
the
street?

Absolutely. I can see any of them quite distinctly from the light
quality,

No, what I meant was how could *John* (whose words have been snipped)
tell that they *couldn't* take CFLs?

--
Mike Barnes

On 2007-03-16 15:50:27 +0000, Mike Barnes said:
,

No, what I meant was how could *John* (whose words have been snipped)
tell that they *couldn't* take CFLs?

Ah, I see what you're saying.

On 16 Mar 2007 08:49:05 -0700, "Mark Carver"
mused:

On Mar 14, 7:50 pm, John Rumm wrote:

lots of time to stockpile filament bulbs and say **** em.

Yep, I'll make space alongside my stockpile of red and black T&E.

I hate reading comments like this. Why ffs.
Red\black\brown\pink\orange.... As long as it's the right size etc....
Brown\blue was available before part p etc....
--
Regards,
Stuart.

In article , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-03-16 15:50:27 +0000, Mike Barnes said:
,

No, what I meant was how could *John* (whose words have been snipped)
tell that they *couldn't* take CFLs?

Ah, I see what you're saying.


Because they are generally of the carriage lamp style and a normal
filament bulb goes up to the top of the glass and you can see the bulb
holder at the bottom. A CFL's ballast would fit but the effect would be
to move the lamp higher up - most of them do not appear to have very
much room above the top of the bulb. For the bulkheads, they are the
older squat type and when on you can see that the bulb is right against
the screw holding on the cover.

However I am interested in people saying that the newer CFLs may work in
PIR controlled lights - how can I tell whether the CFL and fitting are
compatible.


--
John Alexander,

Remove NOSPAM if replying by e-mail

Lurch wrote:
On 16 Mar 2007 08:49:05 -0700, "Mark Carver"
mused:

On Mar 14, 7:50 pm, John Rumm wrote:

lots of time to stockpile filament bulbs and say **** em.
Yep, I'll make space alongside my stockpile of red and black T&E.

I hate reading comments like this. Why ffs.
Red\black\brown\pink\orange.... As long as it's the right size etc....
Brown\blue was available before part p etc....

and most modern accessories are date stamped...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In uk.d-i-y, John wrote:
Because they are generally of the carriage lamp style and a normal
filament bulb goes up to the top of the glass and you can see the bulb
holder at the bottom. A CFL's ballast would fit but the effect would be
to move the lamp higher up - most of them do not appear to have very
much room above the top of the bulb. For the bulkheads, they are the
older squat type and when on you can see that the bulb is right against
the screw holding on the cover.

What can I say? I fitted CFLs into all my existing bulkheads (counting:
seven of them) and that was a few years ago. CFLs have shrunk quite a
lot since then. For instance the 11W CFL that I have in my hand is 99 mm
long overall. I can't tell you what the length of a normal incandescent
bulb is but I think it's probably about the same as that.

However I am interested in people saying that the newer CFLs may work in
PIR controlled lights - how can I tell whether the CFL and fitting are
compatible.

Dunno. Try it? You can bet that as soon as incandescents are in danger
of disappearing from the shelves, CFL compatibility will become apparent
on the box. As for existing fittings, just try it. I'm not aware of any
dangers. If there are any dangers, someone will be along soon to put me
right, I'm sure.

--
Mike Barnes

Tony Williams wrote:

I wonder what would have happened if one were to dial the codes
back and forth or in a circle back to the starting exchange.

When I worked at Ferranti in Bracknell, (before
STD), one of the lunchtime competitions was to
do exactly that. You needed two phones near to
each other, both with direct dial out. Then tap
from local exchange to local exchange and finally
back to the nearby phone. The winner of course
was the one who went through the highest number
of exchanges.

When I was at my first job with GEC Sensors, there was one engineering
department that got the hump when one of the bean counters put a call
bar on the phone number for the local squash courts, when he noticed it
turn up regularly on the phone logs. So the engineers worked out a way
you could use the GEC internal phone network (which as far as phone
networks go, is vast), to dial through from one bit of the empire to
another to see if they could get an outside line from there. Eventually
they found a route but it had to go through several different companies
to get there.

A month or so later the bean counter paid the boss of the department a
visit, since he had eventually spotted these 30 odd digit numbers and
work out what they did. He told him all about what was going on, and
then asked what he was going to do about it. The boss (a good humoured
Welshman) said he was going to go and congratulate the engineers
concerned on the grounds that they were showing exactly the type of
inventive thinking that the company needed, and an extra local phone
call was a small price to pay out of a project budget of millions!


--
Cheers,

John.

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John wrote:

However I am interested in people saying that the newer CFLs may work in
PIR controlled lights - how can I tell whether the CFL and fitting are
compatible.

PIR controlled lights are not usually that much of a problem, unless it
is the type designed to replace an ordinary switch position with no
neutral connection. (hence needs to pass some current through the bulb
to run its own electronics)

--
Cheers,

John.

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In article ,
John Rumm wrote:

When I was at my first job with GEC Sensors, there was one
engineering department that got the hump when one of the bean
counters put a call bar on the phone number for the local squash
courts, when he noticed it turn up regularly on the phone logs.
So the engineers worked out a way you could use the GEC internal
phone network (which as far as phone networks go, is vast), to
dial through from one bit of the empire to another to see if
they could get an outside line from there. Eventually they found
a route but it had to go through several different companies to
get there.
[snip]

:-)

Would that be in the 70's? Companies were lovely
places to work in then.... a right little Butlins
some of them, especially those on the gravy train
known as 'cost plus' military contracts.

--
Tony Williams.

Tony Williams wrote:

Would that be in the 70's?

Na, I would have been at school then ;-)

This was probably '88, '89 something like that.

Companies were lovely
places to work in then.... a right little Butlins
some of them, especially those on the gravy train
known as 'cost plus' military contracts.

This probably was the tail end of a big MoD contract - not sure how it
was funded though...

--
Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm wrote:
Tony Williams wrote:

I wonder what would have happened if one were to dial the codes
back and forth or in a circle back to the starting exchange.


When I worked at Ferranti in Bracknell, (before
STD), one of the lunchtime competitions was to
do exactly that. You needed two phones near to
each other, both with direct dial out. Then tap
from local exchange to local exchange and finally
back to the nearby phone. The winner of course
was the one who went through the highest number
of exchanges.


When I was at my first job with GEC Sensors, there was one engineering
department that got the hump when one of the bean counters put a call
bar on the phone number for the local squash courts, when he noticed it
turn up regularly on the phone logs. So the engineers worked out a way
you could use the GEC internal phone network (which as far as phone
networks go, is vast), to dial through from one bit of the empire to
another to see if they could get an outside line from there. Eventually
they found a route but it had to go through several different companies
to get there.

A month or so later the bean counter paid the boss of the department a
visit, since he had eventually spotted these 30 odd digit numbers and
work out what they did. He told him all about what was going on, and
then asked what he was going to do about it. The boss (a good humoured
Welshman) said he was going to go and congratulate the engineers
concerned on the grounds that they were showing exactly the type of
inventive thinking that the company needed, and an extra local phone
call was a small price to pay out of a project budget of millions!

Sounds very similar to where I worked at, a few years ago (more than
about 15.)

On site were various places to make an outside call from a pay call box.
But, it turned out, that it was costing the company far more than
letting them use the phone on their desk to make a call. Result was
every one used their local desk phone.

15 or 20 years ago, my overheads to employ me were about £1-00 a minute,
so you can see how cost effective it could be.

Dave