Hi All

Any recommendations for decent driver bits No2 Pozi?

I've tried cheap & expensive. Last lot I bought were CK, box of 25 for
about a £5. Don't last long & then cam out starts.

Some dearer ones seemed brittle - I had a few just shatter.

Makes & suppliers please?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On 2006-10-28 20:40:13 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Hi All

Any recommendations for decent driver bits No2 Pozi?

I've tried cheap & expensive. Last lot I bought were CK, box of 25 for
about a £5. Don't last long & then cam out starts.

Some dearer ones seemed brittle - I had a few just shatter.

Makes & suppliers please?

Thinking laterally.....

Have you thought about using Torx screws and bits? These are much
less susceptible to cam out than Pozidriv.

Otherwise, I've had good results with Wiha bits.

The message k
from "The Medway Handyman" contains
these words:

Any recommendations for decent driver bits No2 Pozi?

Quit and use something else instead. Screwfix sell alternatives. Pozi,
while miles better than Pirrips, is still not great. Hex, Torx, square -
all are a lot better.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-10-28 20:40:13 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Hi All

Any recommendations for decent driver bits No2 Pozi?

I've tried cheap & expensive. Last lot I bought were CK, box of 25 for
about a ?5. Don't last long & then cam out starts.

Some dearer ones seemed brittle - I had a few just shatter.

Makes & suppliers please?

Thinking laterally.....

Have you thought about using Torx screws and bits? These are much
less susceptible to cam out than Pozidriv.

Thinking laterally again.

I wonder why there are no drills that can be set to limit torque to
a constant factor times pressure on the bit.

This way there is not enough torque to cam out the bit.

Ian Stirling wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-10-28 20:40:13 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Hi All

Any recommendations for decent driver bits No2 Pozi?

I've tried cheap & expensive. Last lot I bought were CK, box of 25 for
about a ?5. Don't last long & then cam out starts.

Some dearer ones seemed brittle - I had a few just shatter.

Makes & suppliers please?

Thinking laterally.....

Have you thought about using Torx screws and bits? These are much
less susceptible to cam out than Pozidriv.

Thinking laterally again.

I wonder why there are no drills that can be set to limit torque to
a constant factor times pressure on the bit.

This way there is not enough torque to cam out the bit.

There are - I had a play with one. Hitachi I think, but it might not
have been.

Bits - I use some from Screwplan in Todmorden. Don't know what make
they are, but he does mail order! I always get the 50mm long ones -
seem to last better and are less fiddly. I still break them with the
impact driver, but very rarely with the drill.

A

Ian Stirling wrote:

I wonder why there are no drills that can be set to limit torque to
a constant factor times pressure on the bit.

This way there is not enough torque to cam out the bit.


Perhaps because Pozi and Phillips are just not suited for power tool
use. They are both better than slotted for hand screwdriving, but there
are several other head types far better suited for power use.

As such, it makes little sense to spend effort developing more
sophisticated ways of stopping camout, and simply adopt Torx, hex or
square drive instead.


--
Grunff

The Medway Handyman wrote:

Hi All

Any recommendations for decent driver bits No2 Pozi?

I've tried cheap & expensive. Last lot I bought were CK, box of 25 for
about a £5. Don't last long & then cam out starts.

Some dearer ones seemed brittle - I had a few just shatter.

Makes & suppliers please?



Wera (www.wera.de) make the best screwdrivers I have ever come across. Both
the tips and the handles are unbelievable, in fact I've just ordered
replacements for my lost and abused ones I bought in the mid 90's. They do
bit sets - if those are as good as their Rocko series then they should be
OK.

Cheers

Tim

On 2006-10-28 21:29:55 +0100, Ian Stirling said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-10-28 20:40:13 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Hi All

Any recommendations for decent driver bits No2 Pozi?

I've tried cheap & expensive. Last lot I bought were CK, box of 25 for
about a ?5. Don't last long & then cam out starts.

Some dearer ones seemed brittle - I had a few just shatter.

Makes & suppliers please?

Thinking laterally.....

Have you thought about using Torx screws and bits? These are much
less susceptible to cam out than Pozidriv.

Thinking laterally again.

I wonder why there are no drills that can be set to limit torque to a
constant factor times pressure on the bit.

This way there is not enough torque to cam out the bit.

'cos it would probably require some electronics and sensors that nobody
has really thought about too much yet.

The Festool C12 has a brushless motor and the clutch is achieved
electronically as well, so that is part of the story.

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 20:48:45 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2006-10-28 20:40:13 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Hi All

Any recommendations for decent driver bits No2 Pozi?

I've tried cheap & expensive. Last lot I bought were CK, box of 25 for
about a £5. Don't last long & then cam out starts.

Some dearer ones seemed brittle - I had a few just shatter.

Makes & suppliers please?

Thinking laterally.....

Have you thought about using Torx screws and bits?

Thinking even more laterally, Andy....

Torx bits don't work very well on existing Pozidriv screws though.

:-)

I think the problem is that there are so many variations of
'cross-head' screws. Not only are there the original Phillips (sp?),
there are Pozidriv, Supadriv and no doubt others, as well as Japanese
versions of these used widely on electronic equipment.
Actually some very cheap "stubby" screwdrivers are perfect for these
Jap/Korean screws.

--
Frank Erskine
Sunderland

wrote:

Or Robertson screws:

http://www.squarescrews.co.uk/index.htm


On a recent trip to Canada we observed that 95% + of all screws used for
fixtures and fittings were square drive.


--
Grunff

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-10-28 20:40:13 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Hi All

Any recommendations for decent driver bits No2 Pozi?

I've tried cheap & expensive. Last lot I bought were CK, box of 25 for
about a ?5. Don't last long & then cam out starts.

Some dearer ones seemed brittle - I had a few just shatter.

Makes & suppliers please?

Thinking laterally.....

Have you thought about using Torx screws and bits? These are much
less susceptible to cam out than Pozidriv.

Thinking laterally again.

I wonder why there are no drills that can be set to limit torque to
a constant factor times pressure on the bit.

This way there is not enough torque to cam out the bit.

I've a) no idea what you're on about or b) any idea what cam out is.

How would that differ from the standard torque limiter on an electric
screwdriver? FWIW, I've had luck getting rusted and almost rounded fasteners
out by using a very low torque setting and letting it hammer at it.

Doki wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
snip
Thinking laterally again.

I wonder why there are no drills that can be set to limit torque to
a constant factor times pressure on the bit.

This way there is not enough torque to cam out the bit.

I've a) no idea what you're on about or b) any idea what cam out is.

Cam out is the force that tends to push the bit out of the screw, as
it turns, due to misalignment, and geometry of the bit/screw junction.

This is zero with Torx and Square Drive - but can be quite high with
some sorts of cross-slot screw/bit combinations.

How would that differ from the standard torque limiter on an electric
screwdriver? FWIW, I've had luck getting rusted and almost rounded fasteners
out by using a very low torque setting and letting it hammer at it.

That can work, yes.

Basically, the idea is that you don't have a torque limiter as such -
but you set a torque/force ratio.

I.E. you push on the screw with 100g force, it will only turn the screw
with enough force to make the cam-out push 70g.
If you're not applying enough force, and the bit is likely to slip, it
simply stops until you push harder.

Especially with soft screws, once it's slipped the first time, it just
gets worse.
And causes bit wear of course.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Hi All

Any recommendations for decent driver bits No2 Pozi?

I've tried cheap & expensive. Last lot I bought were CK, box of 25
for about a £5. Don't last long & then cam out starts.

Some dearer ones seemed brittle - I had a few just shatter.

Makes & suppliers please?

Can I add that, whilst I agree with all the suggestions to change drive
types, I have so many screws in stock that changing isn't really an option.

It's specific bit makes that I'd like recommendations for please
..............


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 20:48:45 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

Thinking laterally.....

Have you thought about using Torx screws and bits?

Thinking even more laterally, Andy....

Torx bits don't work very well on existing Pozidriv screws though.

:-)

Maybe you need to upgrade to a 10kg breaker...


NT

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
news
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Hi All

Any recommendations for decent driver bits No2 Pozi?

I've tried cheap & expensive. Last lot I bought were CK, box of 25
for about a £5. Don't last long & then cam out starts.

Some dearer ones seemed brittle - I had a few just shatter.

Makes & suppliers please?

Can I add that, whilst I agree with all the suggestions to change drive
types, I have so many screws in stock that changing isn't really an
option.

It's specific bit makes that I'd like recommendations for please
.............



The gold plated ones from screwfix are very nice and have never slipped for
me --- but at the price I only use them for the more difficult jobs, over £2
a bit (I think it was £14 for a box of 6) and I'm frightened of losing them.

Mark BR

Ian Stirling wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-10-28 20:40:13 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Hi All

Any recommendations for decent driver bits No2 Pozi?

I've tried cheap & expensive. Last lot I bought were CK, box of 25 for
about £5. Don't last long & then cam out starts.

You do know there are two main types of cross points don't you?

Some dearer ones seemed brittle - I had a few just shatter.

Makes & suppliers please?

Have you thought about using Torx screws and bits? These are much
less susceptible to cam out than Pozidriv.

What is needed is one screw head type not umpteen

I wonder why there are no drills that can be set to limit torque to
a constant factor times pressure on the bit.

This way there is not enough torque to cam out the bit.

So that you can use the drill on a variety of alloys including the
crappy titanium-ally ones that have the cheap look of steel and the
cheap strength of brass.

If you are using the wrong driver bits -or those crappy ally ones, do
as for brass screws:
Pre drill, then use a real screw of the type the bit was designed for,
to ream the wood.

Better still, go and get a box of the right screws and throw the ally
ones in the bin where they belong.

Mark BR wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
news
It's specific bit makes that I'd like recommendations for please

The gold plated ones from screwfix are very nice and have never slipped for
me --- but at the price I only use them for the more difficult jobs, over £2
a bit (I think it was £14 for a box of 6) and I'm frightened of losing them.

DeWalt for one and I have a box from the last set I bought but the
label has gone. I may have one at work. I'll let you know Monday.

Both last fairly long times and were fairly cheap at about 60 pence
apiece. Of course they come in boxes of 25 or so, IIRC.

The Medway Handyman Wrote:
Hi All

Any recommendations for decent driver bits No2 Pozi?

I've tried cheap & expensive. Last lot I bought were CK, box of 25 for

about a £5. Don't last long & then cam out starts.

Some dearer ones seemed brittle - I had a few just shatter.

Makes & suppliers please?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

What are you using to drive them ? If you dont have one already go out
and buy an Impact Driver, you will NEVER go back to an ordinary driver
after using one. They literally punch the screw home and cam out is
virtually a thing of the past, you need very little pressure on the
screw so its easy to drive screws at arms length and as long as you
pull the trigger the screw keeps going it is an amazing piece of kit.
If you can get into a store and try one you will be converted.




--
Nick H

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
.uk...
Hi All

Any recommendations for decent driver bits No2 Pozi?

I've tried cheap & expensive. Last lot I bought were CK, box of 25 for
about a £5. Don't last long & then cam out starts.

Some dearer ones seemed brittle - I had a few just shatter.

Makes & suppliers please?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

wira diamond bits are some of the best I have tried, snap-on with anti cam
out ribs are really, really good too, but the real breakthrough comes from
not using a drill to do things up but get yourself an electric/battery
impact driver, they are an essential as far as I am concerned and they don't
mess screw heads up .

Mrcheerful

Weatherlawyer wrote:


If you are using the wrong driver bits -or those crappy ally ones, do
as for brass screws:
Pre drill, then use a real screw of the type the bit was designed for,
to ream the wood.

Better still, go and get a box of the right screws and throw the ally
ones in the bin where they belong.

Screwfix Turbo Gold?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

Nick H wrote:
What are you using to drive them ? If you dont have one already go out
and buy an Impact Driver, you will NEVER go back to an ordinary driver
after using one. They literally punch the screw home and cam out is
virtually a thing of the past, you need very little pressure on the
screw so its easy to drive screws at arms length and as long as you
pull the trigger the screw keeps going it is an amazing piece of kit.
If you can get into a store and try one you will be converted.

Is this like the SDS drill, quality jigsaw thing?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

The Medway Handyman wrote:

Any recommendations for decent driver bits No2 Pozi?

Wiha diamond in screwfix quicksilver twinthreads always seem to work
well for me.

I've tried cheap & expensive. Last lot I bought were CK, box of 25 for
about a ï½£5. Don't last long & then cam out starts.

That may have been an economy too far!

Some dearer ones seemed brittle - I had a few just shatter.

Yup, that can happen - even (in fact more often) with the good ones.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

The Medway Handyman wrote:

Is this like the SDS drill, quality jigsaw thing?

Kind of... the Hammer drill/SDS comparison is probably closest. These
tools do one job very well (drive screws). Pro's are effectiveness and
they tend to be smaller and lighter. Con's are they make more noise
(throught the fabric of the building as well), are quite pricey, and not
much use as a general purpose drill. There are a few jobs that they do
which are very hard with an ordinary drill, like sticking self tappers
into metal studding.

As to the difference in results between price ranges, I can't comment
since I have not used enough different ones. Obviously if you have a
particular manufacturers cordless kit, then being able to share
batteries or chargers may be useful.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Is this like the SDS drill, quality jigsaw thing?

I'd say yes. I bought the Bosch 14.4v impact driver after trying it at
a trade show (I already had a 14.4v bosch drill), alos tried the
hitachi and a couple of others - all good, all expensive.

For heavier timbers I use quite a lot of 6 *100mm turbogold or
Spax(slightly better IMO) - these have PZ3, much less prone to breaking
bits.

I had been using Wiha diamond bits, but bought a single Wera PZ3
diamond bit - and rate it cut above.

Oh and get a 1/2" drive adaptor for your impact driver, super for
loosening (moderately tight) and spinning off nuts and bolts.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...95732&id=17228.