Needing a replacement element, I was somewhat surprised to be told by a
TLC outlet (A!) that they don't stock immersion heater elements as it
is illegal for A1 to sell them & they must be fitted by registered
plumbers.

new regs or some misunderstanding?

Elements are still listed on www.tlc-direct.co.uk, though the one I
needed (dual element unswitched) - which is in the current tlc catalog
- is no longer offered.

What's going on?

On 22 Mar 2006 15:39:31 -0800, wrote:

Needing a replacement element, I was somewhat surprised to be told by a
TLC outlet (A!) that they don't stock immersion heater elements as it
is illegal for A1 to sell them & they must be fitted by registered
plumbers.

new regs or some misunderstanding?

Elements are still listed on www.tlc-direct.co.uk, though the one I
needed (dual element unswitched) - which is in the current tlc catalog
- is no longer offered.

What's going on?

Sounds like ******** doesn't it . They must be misunderstanding some
part of Part Pee ....Did you try phoning TLC to query this
..http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Informat...ontactList.htm

Stuart

Stuart wrote:

Sounds like ******** doesn't it.

Quite. The only change (AFAIK) is that since 2004 immersion heaters
have to be fitted with a separate latching overheat thermostat.
Background reading he
http://www.cibse.org/index.cfm?actio...92&TopSecID=16

There are immersion heater elements to buy and fit yourself he
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plum...ing/d20/sd2708
(Always go for the long-life type as the cost difference is trivial.)

--
Andy

In article . com,
wrote:
Needing a replacement element, I was somewhat surprised to be told by a
TLC outlet (A!) that they don't stock immersion heater elements as it
is illegal for A1 to sell them & they must be fitted by registered
plumbers.

Did you upset the assistant?

--
*The most wasted day of all is one in which we have not laughed.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:
Needing a replacement element, I was somewhat surprised to be told by a
TLC outlet (A!) that they don't stock immersion heater elements as it
is illegal for A1 to sell them & they must be fitted by registered
plumbers.

Did you upset the assistant?


If I did, it happenend within the first microsecond I was at the
counter. No, I walked in with the old one because I wasn't sure how
you measure the length (turns out it is the total length under water,
excluding the cap etc) & there didn't appear to be an exact 1:1
replacement in the TLC catalog. Placed it on the counter & without a
word from me was immediately informed as stated.

On 23 Mar 2006 06:20:08 -0800, wrote:


Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:
Needing a replacement element, I was somewhat surprised to be told by a
TLC outlet (A!) that they don't stock immersion heater elements as it
is illegal for A1 to sell them & they must be fitted by registered
plumbers.

Did you upset the assistant?


If I did, it happenend within the first microsecond I was at the
counter. No, I walked in with the old one because I wasn't sure how
you measure the length (turns out it is the total length under water,
excluding the cap etc) & there didn't appear to be an exact 1:1
replacement in the TLC catalog. Placed it on the counter & without a
word from me was immediately informed as stated.


Didn't you question what you had been told .Are they not selling them
to anyone or only to registered plumbers .......as I said it sounds a
load of ******** .

Stuart

On 22 Mar 2006 15:39:31 -0800, wrote:

Needing a replacement element, I was somewhat surprised to be told by a
TLC outlet (A!) that they don't stock immersion heater elements as it
is illegal for A1 to sell them & they must be fitted by registered
plumbers.

new regs or some misunderstanding?

Elements are still listed on www.tlc-direct.co.uk, though the one I
needed (dual element unswitched) - which is in the current tlc catalog
- is no longer offered.

What's going on?

Is it not possible that an immersion heater is regarded as being a
kitchen/bathroom appliance and hence under part p?

sponix

If I did, it happenend within the first microsecond I was at the
counter. No, I walked in with the old one because I wasn't sure how
you measure the length (turns out it is the total length under water,
excluding the cap etc) & there didn't appear to be an exact 1:1
replacement in the TLC catalog. Placed it on the counter & without a
word from me was immediately informed as stated.

As to see the written notice of that. Should cause a bit of a stir.

Dave

"Sponix" wrote in message
...
On 22 Mar 2006 15:39:31 -0800, wrote:

Needing a replacement element, I was somewhat surprised to be told by a
TLC outlet (A!) that they don't stock immersion heater elements as it
is illegal for A1 to sell them & they must be fitted by registered
plumbers.

new regs or some misunderstanding?

Elements are still listed on www.tlc-direct.co.uk, though the one I
needed (dual element unswitched) - which is in the current tlc catalog
- is no longer offered.

What's going on?

Is it not possible that an immersion heater is regarded as being a
kitchen/bathroom appliance and hence under part p?

sponix

Sounds like a load of bureaucratic cr**! Does it indicate, interestingly,
how over-regulated everything now seems to be over there; where I came from?

We buy replacement elements, thermostats, pressure relief valves etc. from a
variety of outlets. I can think of five such within less than 10 kms
(population in general area around 250,000) where one would expect to find
such items in stock. Canadian Tire Store or Home Depot, being typical.

Simultaneously to this there is a thread of postings on a very similar North
American (do-it-your-self) news-group to this one, where we are currently
discussing how often it is necessary to self-replace complete electric hot
water heaters 'hot water tanks' (in our case that's about three times in 35+
years), replacing 'stop-cock' water valves with quarter turn shut offs and
the proper way for the d-i-yer to run wiring through joists etc.

We self built, with two carpenters, the two houses we have lived and brought
up a family in during the last 50 years. With never a fire, a leak or a
storm problem, in what I would suggest is a severe and demanding climate.
An up to date house inspection the other day recommended a couple of minor
things, such as a CO detector cos we have asked the insurance company the
annual premium cost increase to add an occasional use wood stove, also a
second fire extinguisher! Nothing basically at fault with house at all.

Total electrical repairs in this all-electric four bedroom house, for
example, have been.
Three wall mounted AC thermostats that control the individual electric
baseboard heaters in each room. One was changed because of style!
One 230 volt 20 amp circuit breaker.
The outside mounted electric power meter 'socket'. Facing NE towards the
Atlantic less than a kilometre away, after some 30 years corroded. The meter
itself is owned by the power company; we own the socket.

Also replaced: The water heater, original plus two replacements. The
electric cooking stove replaced a couple of times (we ran a catering company
at one time!); the much self repaired dryer is now 46 years old, the washer
again the other day, was this time more of a mechanical than an electric
problem etc. etc. I noticed a cracked but not currently in use duplex outlet
in one bedroom the other day, nothing plugged into it but will replace it
as time permits.

Plumbing; originally we had a well and septic, all self installed to Dept.
Health standards; now municipal water and sewer. Which meant that all
connections had to be turned around and our own trench dug out to the
street. No problems with that except that it's about time to start replacing
the innards (or at least the washers and rubbers) of some of the more
numerous than required hot and cold water shut-offs.

And so it goes; for a big/heavy job one might, especially now in the mid 70s
age group, hire a helper although 90% of this house is self maintainable.

Someone has just offered me, later this summer, after they have rebuilt
their house and moved back in, a used shed; it's about 10 feet wide by some
16 feet long. A bit big and expensive to move whole, although I've done that
before. It looks as though I'll have to disassemble and salvage the material
for reuse. Also the location to which it will be moved is not that
accessible; and it will also be an opportunity to improve its construction
and possibly do away with one smaller shed closer to the house which houses
bicycles, winter tyres and wheels for the vehicles, garden tools, snow
shovels and a generator. The municipality rule (no permit required) is that
it be not closer to the street than the house itself and allows a minimum
three feet clearance between any structure and fence, to permit fire-person
with hose to get to back of properties.Since that already satisfied, foresee
no problems rebuilding it somewhat larger in our back yard. Possibly to
store my son's vintage car and thereby free-up the attached 11 by 18 foot
garage!

Anyway; best of luck mates.
Ex Liverpool 50 years back!

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:20:08 -0800, long.ironer wrote:


Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:
Needing a replacement element, I was somewhat surprised to be told by a
TLC outlet (A!) that they don't stock immersion heater elements as it
is illegal for A1 to sell them & they must be fitted by registered
plumbers.

Did you upset the assistant?


If I did, it happenend within the first microsecond I was at the
counter. No, I walked in with the old one because I wasn't sure how
you measure the length (turns out it is the total length under water,
excluding the cap etc) & there didn't appear to be an exact 1:1
replacement in the TLC catalog. Placed it on the counter & without a
word from me was immediately informed as stated.


I suggest that you purchase one from screwfix.
The matter is neither subject to Part-P notifications (unless in kitchen
or bathroom or special location which it probably won't be) nor to Part-L
nor Part-J notifications AFAIK.

Replacing the cylinder is though. 8-(

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

In article .com,
wrote:
Needing a replacement element, I was somewhat surprised to be told
by a TLC outlet (A!) that they don't stock immersion heater elements
as it is illegal for A1 to sell them & they must be fitted by
registered plumbers.

Did you upset the assistant?


If I did, it happenend within the first microsecond I was at the
counter. No, I walked in with the old one because I wasn't sure how you
measure the length (turns out it is the total length under water,
excluding the cap etc) & there didn't appear to be an exact 1:1
replacement in the TLC catalog. Placed it on the counter & without a
word from me was immediately informed as stated.

He must having had a bad day, or something. B&Q etc still sell immersion
heaters.

But by your above statement it still looks like you upset the counter
assistant.

--
*If you don't like the news, go out and make some.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:30:48 GMT, (Sponix) wrote:

On 22 Mar 2006 15:39:31 -0800, wrote:

Needing a replacement element, I was somewhat surprised to be told by a
TLC outlet (A!) that they don't stock immersion heater elements as it
is illegal for A1 to sell them & they must be fitted by registered
plumbers.

new regs or some misunderstanding?

Elements are still listed on www.tlc-direct.co.uk, though the one I
needed (dual element unswitched) - which is in the current tlc catalog
- is no longer offered.

What's going on?

Is it not possible that an immersion heater is regarded as being a
kitchen/bathroom appliance and hence under part p?

sponix


Even if it were, then there is nothing in Part P controlling sale of
products. In fact relatively little legislation does this - some
medical equipment being the only one that springs to mind.


--

..andy

Ed Sirett wrote:

I suggest that you purchase one from screwfix.
The matter is neither subject to Part-P notifications (unless in kitchen
or bathroom or special location which it probably won't be)

Like-for-like replacement isn't Part-P-notifiable even if it *is* in a
kitchen or bathroom.

--
Andy

Andy Hall wrote:

Is it not possible that an immersion heater is regarded as being a
kitchen/bathroom appliance and hence under part p?

sponix


Even if it were, then there is nothing in Part P controlling sale of
products. In fact relatively little legislation does this - some
medical equipment being the only one that springs to mind.


Thanks. I rang TLC as you suggested in your earlier post & the clearly
knowledgeable person answering thought A1 must have misunderstood who
can do the job (partP etc) as against who can legally sell or buy the
kit. He said he'd try to clear the issue with A1.

The dual element version TLC used to sell is now history - discontinued
by the manufacturers. Looks like 2-heat immersion elements are out of
fashion.

Bearing in mind previous conversations heard/overheard at A1, it has
left me wondering whether some campaign literature ex NICEIC or ECA
calling for tighter restrictions has been misunderstood. Anyone any
access to NICEIC/ECA campaign literature/web site?

On 23 Mar 2006 14:25:15 -0800, wrote:


Andy Hall wrote:

Is it not possible that an immersion heater is regarded as being a
kitchen/bathroom appliance and hence under part p?

sponix


Even if it were, then there is nothing in Part P controlling sale of
products. In fact relatively little legislation does this - some
medical equipment being the only one that springs to mind.


Thanks. I rang TLC as you suggested in your earlier post & the clearly
knowledgeable person answering thought A1 must have misunderstood who
can do the job (partP etc) as against who can legally sell or buy the
kit. He said he'd try to clear the issue with A1.

The dual element version TLC used to sell is now history - discontinued
by the manufacturers. Looks like 2-heat immersion elements are out of
fashion.

Bearing in mind previous conversations heard/overheard at A1, it has
left me wondering whether some campaign literature ex NICEIC or ECA
calling for tighter restrictions has been misunderstood. Anyone any
access to NICEIC/ECA campaign literature/web site?

Typically what happens in these trade places is early morning/early
afternoon/end of day mother's meetings with the regulars going in and
swapping (mis) information. It happens in electrical, plumbing and
building ones. The counter staff pick up the latest information,
miscommunicate it and so it goes on.

Certainly NICEIC have used their length of time in the market (since
the late 14th century) and branding to convince customers that they
are the only self certification game in town.



--

..andy

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Typically what happens in these trade places is early morning/early
afternoon/end of day mother's meetings with the regulars going in and
swapping (mis) information. It happens in electrical, plumbing and
building ones. The counter staff pick up the latest information,
miscommunicate it and so it goes on.

An explanation for dribble? ;-)

--
*A snooze button is a poor substitute for no alarm clock at all *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:47:02 +0000, Andy Wade wrote:

Ed Sirett wrote:

I suggest that you purchase one from screwfix.
The matter is neither subject to Part-P notifications (unless in kitchen
or bathroom or special location which it probably won't be)

Like-for-like replacement isn't Part-P-notifiable even if it *is* in a
kitchen or bathroom.

When does a like for like replacement not become one?

i.e how similar does the heater have to be a like for like?
This is of relevance for shower replacement.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:27:14 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Typically what happens in these trade places is early morning/early
afternoon/end of day mother's meetings with the regulars going in and
swapping (mis) information. It happens in electrical, plumbing and
building ones. The counter staff pick up the latest information,
miscommunicate it and so it goes on.

An explanation for dribble? ;-)


No need for the question mark.


--

"Dave Plowman (News)" through a hze of senile
flatulence wrote in message ...
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Typically what happens in these trade places is early morning/early
afternoon/end of day mother's meetings with the regulars going in and
swapping (mis) information. It happens in electrical, plumbing and
building ones. The counter staff pick up the latest information,
miscommunicate it and so it goes on.

An explanation

This is appalling. I really hope this senile person is allowed near sharp
things.

"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
Ed Sirett wrote:

I suggest that you purchase one from screwfix. The matter is neither
subject to Part-P notifications (unless in kitchen
or bathroom or special location which it probably won't be)

Like-for-like replacement isn't Part-P-notifiable even if it *is* in a
kitchen or bathroom.

Yep. Even defective wiring as well. New circuits no.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
The counter staff pick up the latest information, miscommunicate it
and so it goes on.

An explanation

Should there have been a [snip] there somewhere, pet?

This is appalling. I really hope this senile person is allowed near
sharp things.

To most you're the one who shouldn't be allowed to snip with sharp things.

Now go back to behind your PM's counter. And try and learn from the odd
plumber you serve who knows what he's talking about and has actually
installed things.

--
*I don't work here. I'm a consultant

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
The counter staff pick up the latest information, miscommunicate it
and so it goes on.

An explanation

Should there have been a [snip] there somewhere, pet?

...this senile man he calls me pet
...of inverted gender he must be set
...he gives us info we don't need to know
...down our throats he rams it so

...instictively you will spy
...in newsgroups with DIY
...attempting wisdom this fool will try

...the info's so poor tis clearly true
...so how does this garbage affect you?

...well take no heed of babble and drool
...as this one is a confirmed fool

...he marches around in CAT boots of yellow
...this strange brain damaged sort of fellow

...misadvice he has lots to say
...so don't give this yellow booted half-wit the time of day