***


welcome to you

Do you have an hour from your time ?
Do you want sailing in a different world ?
So.. You must visit of these sites
And you will feel that you are different totally after it


http://www.al-islam.com/arb/

http://www.whymuhammad.com/EN/

http://www.icsfp.com/EN/

http://www.prophetmuhammed.org

http://www.al-sunnah.com

http://www.islamtoday.net/

http://www.islamway.com/

http://www.islamonline.net/english/index.shtml

http://www.plaintruth.org

http://travel.to/truth

http://www.islamhouse.org/en/index.php

http://www.it-is-truth.org

http://www.todayislam.com/

http://www.beconvinced.com/

http://www.thetruereligion.org/

http://www.islam-qa.com/

http://www.sultan.org/

http://www.prophetmuhammed.org/

http://www.islam-guide.com/

http://www.sultan.org/books/



***

wrote:
***


welcome to you

Do you have an hour from your time ?
Do you want sailing in a different world ?
So.. You must visit of these sites
And you will feel that you are different totally after it


**** off if you cant take a joke.
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

On 10 Feb 2006 04:49:02 -0800, "
wrote:

|***
|
|
|welcome to you
|
|Do you have an hour from your time ?
|Do you want sailing in a different world ?
|So.. You must visit of these sites
|And you will feel that you are different totally after it

And the connection to DIY is?
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Please quote, with quote
character, previous post sniped to only the bit you are replying to.
Threads often contain 100s of posts dozens layers deep. Other people
use different newsreaders, they do not see or do what you see and do.

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 14:27:14 +0000, Dave Fawthrop wrote:

On 10 Feb 2006 04:49:02 -0800, "
wrote:

|***
|
|
|welcome to you
|
|Do you have an hour from your time ?
|Do you want sailing in a different world ? So.. You must visit of these
|sites
|And you will feel that you are different totally after it

And the connection to DIY is?

Well I suppose you could draw your own cartoons???

--
Regards
Tony
(Take out the garbage to reply)

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On 10 Feb 2006 04:49:02 -0800, "
wrote:

|Do you have an hour from your time ?
|Do you want sailing in a different world ?
|So.. You must visit of these sites
|And you will feel that you are different totally after it

And the connection to DIY is?

spammers are usually people who do it themselves.


NT

wrote:
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On 10 Feb 2006 04:49:02 -0800, "
wrote:

|Do you have an hour from your time ?
|Do you want sailing in a different world ?
|So.. You must visit of these sites
|And you will feel that you are different totally after it

And the connection to DIY is?

spammers are usually people who do it themselves.


NT

I've seen this done before. It's NOT a muslim posting this stuff but
some dumb BNP type trying to stir stuff up.

On 10 Feb 2006 11:23:48 -0800, wrote:

|
wrote:
| Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| On 10 Feb 2006 04:49:02 -0800, "
| wrote:
|
| |Do you have an hour from your time ?
| |Do you want sailing in a different world ?
| |So.. You must visit of these sites
| |And you will feel that you are different totally after it
|
| And the connection to DIY is?
|
| spammers are usually people who do it themselves.
|
|
| NT
|
|I've seen this done before. It's NOT a muslim posting this stuff but
|some dumb BNP type trying to stir stuff up.

Quite possibly. When I think about it the wording is wrong for a Muslim.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Please quote, with quote
character, previous post sniped to only the bit you are replying to.
Threads often contain 100s of posts dozens layers deep. Other people
use different newsreaders, they do not see or do what you see and do.

In message .com,
" writes
***


welcome to you

Do you have an hour from your time ?
Do you want sailing in a different world ?
So.. You must visit of these sites
And you will feel that you are different totally after it


http://www.al-islam.com/arb/

.... ...


http://www.sultan.org/books/

Any cartoons of Mohammed ?

--
geoff

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On 10 Feb 2006 11:23:48 -0800, wrote:


wrote:
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On 10 Feb 2006 04:49:02 -0800, "
wrote:

Do you have an hour from your time ?
Do you want sailing in a different world ?
So.. You must visit of these sites
And you will feel that you are different totally after it

And the connection to DIY is?

spammers are usually people who do it themselves.


NT

I've seen this done before. It's NOT a muslim posting this stuff but
some dumb BNP type trying to stir stuff up.

Quite possibly. When I think about it the wording is wrong for a
Muslim.

thanks for sharing that.

the post is either from Riyadh, Saudi, promoting a dangerous cult
or Griffins mob of nob heads have some 1337 h4xors as members,
spoofing posts to usenet. which is unlikely.

http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm?GetLocation

I'll repost the links. reading a few of those sites over a cup of coffee may
help people see what absolute quackery is accepted as fact by grown ups
who haven't quite been able to give up their belief in their 'invisible friend'

http://www.al-islam.com/arb/

http://www.whymuhammad.com/EN/

http://www.icsfp.com/EN/

http://www.prophetmuhammed.org

http://www.al-sunnah.com

http://www.islamtoday.net/

http://www.islamway.com/

http://www.islamonline.net/english/index.shtml

http://www.plaintruth.org

http://travel.to/truth

http://www.islamhouse.org/en/index.php

http://www.it-is-truth.org

http://www.todayislam.com/

http://www.beconvinced.com/

http://www.thetruereligion.org/

http://www.islam-qa.com/

http://www.sultan.org/

http://www.prophetmuhammed.org/

http://www.islam-guide.com/

http://www.sultan.org/books/

And the connection to DIY is?

The guy is a w*nker ?

--
Please add the word "newsgroup" in the subject line of personal emails
**** My email address includes "ngspamtrap" and " ****

Colin Wilson wrote:
And the connection to DIY is?

The guy is a w*nker ?

it's haram

In article ,
raden wrote:
Any cartoons of Mohammed ?

The ones in question are easily accessible and quite innocuous.

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 20:46:42 GMT, raden wrote:

In message .com,
" writes
***


welcome to you

Any cartoons of Mohammed ?

http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2FC51E9C
http://makeashorterlink.com/?T51D25E9C
http://www.jesusandmo.net/2006/01/27/show/


LOL

John Cartmell wrote:
In article ,
raden wrote:
Any cartoons of Mohammed ?

The ones in question are easily accessible and quite innocuous.

how /very/ dare you !!

I'm so offended I shall raise a mob and burn you out of your home !!

.. wrote:
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

I've seen this done before. It's NOT a muslim posting this stuff but
some dumb BNP type trying to stir stuff up.

Quite possibly. When I think about it the wording is wrong for a Muslim.

thanks for sharing that.

the post is either from Riyadh, Saudi, promoting a dangerous cult
or Griffins mob of nob heads have some 1337 h4xors as members,
spoofing posts to usenet. which is unlikely.

http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm?GetLocation

I'll repost the links. reading a few of those sites over a cup of coffee may
help people see what absolute quackery is accepted as fact by grown ups
who haven't quite been able to give up their belief in their 'invisible friend'

Why do I have the feeling this site is genuine:
http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/

Plenty of nutters where they come from.

In article .com,
Weatherlawyer wrote:

. wrote:
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

I've seen this done before. It's NOT a muslim posting this stuff but
some dumb BNP type trying to stir stuff up.

Quite possibly. When I think about it the wording is wrong for a Muslim.

thanks for sharing that.

the post is either from Riyadh, Saudi, promoting a dangerous cult or
Griffins mob of nob heads have some 1337 h4xors as members, spoofing
posts to usenet. which is unlikely.

http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm?GetLocation

I'll repost the links. reading a few of those sites over a cup of coffee
may help people see what absolute quackery is accepted as fact by grown
ups who haven't quite been able to give up their belief in their
'invisible friend'

Why do I have the feeling this site is genuine:
http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/

It is. After the stupidity of some 'moderate' Muslims - 'the Danish fovernment
need to take action' (and pass a law to remove free speech and prosecute the
newspaper after the event?!) - I find the Chick site quite refreshingly makes
some of the more extreme 'Muslims' seem quite balanced.

Now if someone could please direct me out of this asylum ... ;-(

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

In article ,
. [email protected] wrote:
John Cartmell wrote:
In article ,
raden wrote:
Any cartoons of Mohammed ?

The ones in question are easily accessible and quite innocuous.

how /very/ dare you !!

I'm so offended I shall raise a mob and burn you out of your home !!

Not as offended as I am by that apparently moderate speaker who, in all
seriousness seemed to expect the Danish government to prosecute the newspaper
in question even though that would mean making a new (and unacceptable) law
and back-date it.

It's the fact that those rabble-rousing Imams(sp?) want us to retaliate that's
stopping me responding appropriately...

... moderates of the world unite! ;-)

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

John Cartmell wrote:
In article ,
. [email protected] wrote:
John Cartmell wrote:
In article ,
raden wrote:
Any cartoons of Mohammed ?

The ones in question are easily accessible and quite innocuous.

how /very/ dare you !!

I'm so offended I shall raise a mob and burn you out of your home !!

Not as offended as I am

well, you have the right to raise your own mob and burn me out of /my/ house :-)

by that apparently moderate speaker who, in
all seriousness seemed to expect the Danish government to prosecute
the newspaper in question even though that would mean making a new
(and unacceptable) law and back-date it.

It's the fact that those rabble-rousing Imams(sp?) want us to
retaliate that's stopping me responding appropriately...

.. moderates of the world unite! ;-)

I couldn't agree more but I worry that a lack of action on the part
of moderates will alow the fundaligionists (tm) to run riot.

In article , . [email protected] wrote:
John Cartmell wrote:
In article , . [email protected] wrote:
John Cartmell wrote:
In article , raden
wrote:
Any cartoons of Mohammed ?

The ones in question are easily accessible and quite innocuous.

how /very/ dare you !!

I'm so offended I shall raise a mob and burn you out of your home !!

Not as offended as I am

well, you have the right to raise your own mob and burn me out of /my/
house :-)

by that apparently moderate speaker who, in all seriousness seemed to
expect the Danish government to prosecute the newspaper in question even
though that would mean making a new (and unacceptable) law and back-date
it.

It's the fact that those rabble-rousing Imams(sp?) want us to retaliate
that's stopping me responding appropriately...

.. moderates of the world unite! ;-)

I couldn't agree more but I worry that a lack of action on the part of
moderates will alow the fundaligionists (tm) to run riot.

I do think some of the reporters should point out that the only really
offensive cartoons were those manufactured by the imams - not those printed by
the Danish newspaper; and make it clear that the reason the cartoons were
printed was to test the assumption that pictorial comment on Islam was
difficult if not impossible. To hark back to another recent OT thread - test
proved?

Current argument in this household centres on how much an open society can
accept intolerance within its midst.

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

John Cartmell wrote:
In article , . [email protected]
wrote:
John Cartmell wrote:
In article , . [email protected]
wrote:
John Cartmell wrote:
In article , raden
wrote:
Any cartoons of Mohammed ?

The ones in question are easily accessible and quite innocuous.

how /very/ dare you !!

I'm so offended I shall raise a mob and burn you out of your home
!!

Not as offended as I am

well, you have the right to raise your own mob and burn me out of
/my/ house :-)

by that apparently moderate speaker who, in all seriousness seemed
to expect the Danish government to prosecute the newspaper in
question even though that would mean making a new (and
unacceptable) law and back-date it.

It's the fact that those rabble-rousing Imams(sp?) want us to
retaliate that's stopping me responding appropriately...

.. moderates of the world unite! ;-)

I couldn't agree more but I worry that a lack of action on the part
of moderates will alow the fundaligionists (tm) to run riot.

I do think some of the reporters should point out that the only really
offensive cartoons were those manufactured by the imams - not those
printed by the Danish newspaper; and make it clear that the reason
the cartoons were printed was to test the assumption that pictorial
comment on Islam was difficult if not impossible. To hark back to
another recent OT thread - test proved?

Current argument in this household centres on how much an open
society can accept intolerance within its midst.

worryingly, probably more than is good for it to do so. sadly, it's nigh on
impossible to reason with the deluded that following their 'imaginary friend'
and all their crazy rules, rituals and rhetoric may not be the best way to build a
safe and tolerant world (the last 2000 years of christianity proves that let alone
these newly invented cults) the sane must sit back and hope all this bull****
burns it's self out without taking us with it.

In message .com,
Weatherlawyer writes

. wrote:
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

I've seen this done before. It's NOT a muslim posting this stuff but
some dumb BNP type trying to stir stuff up.

Quite possibly. When I think about it the wording is wrong for a Muslim.

thanks for sharing that.

the post is either from Riyadh, Saudi, promoting a dangerous cult
or Griffins mob of nob heads have some 1337 h4xors as members,
spoofing posts to usenet. which is unlikely.

http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm?GetLocation

I'll repost the links. reading a few of those sites over a cup of coffee may
help people see what absolute quackery is accepted as fact by grown ups
who haven't quite been able to give up their belief in their
'invisible friend'

Why do I have the feeling this site is genuine:
http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/

Plenty of nutters where they come from.

"The problem with this is two-fold. First, history and archaeology show
clearly that Allah was worshipped as a pagan moon god long before
Mohammed came on the scene."

Hmm new one on me ...




--
geoff

raden wrote:
In message .com,
Weatherlawyer writes

. wrote:
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

I've seen this done before. It's NOT a muslim posting this stuff
but some dumb BNP type trying to stir stuff up.

Quite possibly. When I think about it the wording is wrong for a
Muslim.

thanks for sharing that.

the post is either from Riyadh, Saudi, promoting a dangerous cult
or Griffins mob of nob heads have some 1337 h4xors as members,
spoofing posts to usenet. which is unlikely.

http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm?GetLocation

I'll repost the links. reading a few of those sites over a cup of
coffee may help people see what absolute quackery is accepted as
fact by grown ups
who haven't quite been able to give up their belief in their
'invisible friend'

Why do I have the feeling this site is genuine:
http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/

Plenty of nutters where they come from.

"The problem with this is two-fold. First, history and archaeology
show clearly that Allah was worshipped as a pagan moon god long before
Mohammed came on the scene."

Hmm new one on me ...

Hah! but Mohammed was a prophet and not a god and dictated HIS world via
the Koran
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote:
raden wrote:
In message .com,
Weatherlawyer writes

. wrote:
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

I've seen this done before. It's NOT a muslim posting this stuff
but some dumb BNP type trying to stir stuff up.

Quite possibly. When I think about it the wording is wrong for a
Muslim.

thanks for sharing that.

the post is either from Riyadh, Saudi, promoting a dangerous cult
or Griffins mob of nob heads have some 1337 h4xors as members,
spoofing posts to usenet. which is unlikely.

http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm?GetLocation

I'll repost the links. reading a few of those sites over a cup of
coffee may help people see what absolute quackery is accepted as
fact by grown ups
who haven't quite been able to give up their belief in their
'invisible friend'

Why do I have the feeling this site is genuine:
http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/

Plenty of nutters where they come from.

"The problem with this is two-fold. First, history and archaeology
show clearly that Allah was worshipped as a pagan moon god long
before Mohammed came on the scene."

Hmm new one on me ...

Hah! but Mohammed was a prophet and not a god and dictated HIS world
via the Koran

Heresy !! there is only ONE TRUE FAITH !

bow down to Himself http://oc.metblogs.com/archives/fsm.jpg

be Touched by His Noodly Appendage ! http://www.venganza.org/

Ramen !!

In article , raden wrote:
In message .com,
Weatherlawyer writes

. wrote:
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

I've seen this done before. It's NOT a muslim posting this stuff but
some dumb BNP type trying to stir stuff up.

Quite possibly. When I think about it the wording is wrong for a
Muslim.

thanks for sharing that.

the post is either from Riyadh, Saudi, promoting a dangerous cult or
Griffins mob of nob heads have some 1337 h4xors as members, spoofing
posts to usenet. which is unlikely.

http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm?GetLocation

I'll repost the links. reading a few of those sites over a cup of coffee
may help people see what absolute quackery is accepted as fact by grown
ups who haven't quite been able to give up their belief in their
'invisible friend'

Why do I have the feeling this site is genuine:
http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/

Plenty of nutters where they come from.

"The problem with this is two-fold. First, history and archaeology show
clearly that Allah was worshipped as a pagan moon god long before Mohammed
came on the scene."

Hmm new one on me ...

Their distributors in England (sic) are in somewhere called Edinburg (sic) -
and one enlightened spot appears to be Denmark - where there is no
distributor. ;-)

I find their publications for kids to be most frightening:

http://www.chick.com/catalog/comics/0107.asp

Doesn't the USA have laws against abusing children's minds? ;-(

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

In article ,
. [email protected] wrote:
their crazy rules, rituals and rhetoric

I've no problems with such and anyone is free to follow whatever crazy rules
and rituals (&c) that they want. My objection is whenever they impinge on the
lives of others.

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

John Cartmell wrote:
In article ,
. [email protected] wrote:
their crazy rules, rituals and rhetoric

I've no problems with such and anyone is free to follow whatever
crazy rules and rituals (&c) that they want. My objection is whenever
they impinge on the lives of others.

the christian have already had a detrimental effect on our nation and
they've been doing it for years. the coming problems will be the fault
of the islamonazis who make the christians look like the hells angels.

I'm all for following the french line and banning any and all signs of
religion in schools and other places of learning and banning outright
all faith based schools as they are cultist training grounds, indoctrinating
children with false information, putting superstition over science and
laying the foundations for problems for future generations.

it's child abuse of the most sinister kind.

In message , .
writes
John Cartmell wrote:
In article ,
raden wrote:
Any cartoons of Mohammed ?

The ones in question are easily accessible and quite innocuous.

how /very/ dare you !!

I'm so offended I shall raise a mob and burn you out of your home !!

Sausages, sausages - who's got the sausages ?

--
geoff

In message , John Cartmell
writes
In article ,
raden wrote:
Any cartoons of Mohammed ?

The ones in question are easily accessible and quite innocuous.

No, really ?



--
geoff

.. wrote:
John Cartmell wrote:
In article ,
. [email protected] wrote:
John Cartmell wrote:
In article ,
raden wrote:
Any cartoons of Mohammed ?

The ones in question are easily accessible and quite innocuous.

how /very/ dare you !!

I'm so offended I shall raise a mob and burn you out of your home !!

Not as offended as I am

well, you have the right to raise your own mob and burn me out of /my/ house :-)

by that apparently moderate speaker who, in
all seriousness seemed to expect the Danish government to prosecute
the newspaper in question even though that would mean making a new
(and unacceptable) law and back-date it.

It's the fact that those rabble-rousing Imams(sp?) want us to
retaliate that's stopping me responding appropriately...

.. moderates of the world unite! ;-)

I couldn't agree more but I worry that a lack of action on the part
of moderates will alow the fundaligionists (tm) to run riot.

Why? When the NF neo-nazis used to march chanting racist crap did
anyone cry about it then? Last time I looked there wasn't one Shariah
law in this country and every muslim I know has never demanded it. The
small rabble in London don't have any power to change anything. The
biggest recruiter for them is this phoney war against terror, the media
and ignorant idiots who label all muslims because of the actions of a
few (not referring to you btw ;-).

wrote:
. wrote:
John Cartmell wrote:
In article ,
. [email protected] wrote:
John Cartmell wrote:
In article ,
raden wrote:
Any cartoons of Mohammed ?

The ones in question are easily accessible and quite innocuous.

how /very/ dare you !!

I'm so offended I shall raise a mob and burn you out of your home
!!

Not as offended as I am

well, you have the right to raise your own mob and burn me out of
/my/ house :-)

by that apparently moderate speaker who, in
all seriousness seemed to expect the Danish government to prosecute
the newspaper in question even though that would mean making a new
(and unacceptable) law and back-date it.

It's the fact that those rabble-rousing Imams(sp?) want us to
retaliate that's stopping me responding appropriately...

.. moderates of the world unite! ;-)

I couldn't agree more but I worry that a lack of action on the part
of moderates will alow the fundaligionists (tm) to run riot.

Why? When the NF neo-nazis used to march chanting racist crap did
anyone cry about it then?

I did. along with a few thousand ANL peeps.

.. wrote:
snip
worryingly, probably more than is good for it to do so. sadly, it's nigh on
impossible to reason with the deluded that following their 'imaginary friend'
and all their crazy rules, rituals and rhetoric may not be the best way to build a
safe and tolerant world (the last 2000 years of christianity proves that let alone
these newly invented cults) the sane must sit back and hope all this bull****
burns it's self out without taking us with it.

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread but since other people
seem to be up for a discussion and Chris Bacon doesn't appear to be
around...

Do you see religion as an entirely bad thing then? Wouldn't that be
ignoring the
hundreds of well-known social reformers who were motivated by their
faith thoughout history. A very brief list: Wilberforce, Booth, Mahatma
Phule, Mother Theresa, Ghandi, Martin Luther King etc etc...

Wouldn't it be ignoring the thousands of faith-based social
organisations
and the hundreds of thousands of people who work for them for low or no
wages. e.g. World Vision, Tear Fund, Christian Aid, Cafod, Pax Christi
etc etc; and the many who started out as faith-based organisations:
(Red Cross, Barnardos, Initiatives of Change etc etc)

Wouldn't it be ignoring the technological and sociotal revolutions
that have come about (or at least been accelerated by) religious
groups. eg. printing, global exploration, universal schooling etc.

Wouldn't it be ignoring the scientific studies that suggest that
believers are (generally speaking) better educated, happier, more
stable, have longer-lasting marriages and have better sex lives!
(Regardless of whether the science shows that it's "all in the mind" or
not)

And wouldn't it be ignoring the thousands of churches and other
faith-based groups thoughout this country who week by week provide
services free of charge that the government can't or won't. eg. pretty
much every church I know of has a mums & tots group, at least one youth
group; ministers of religion provide councelling and practical
assistance to needy people etc etc.

So don't you think you might be giving religious groups an unfairly
hard time?

And before you start spouting about war and religion, may I remind you
of the conflicts
we have been involved in over the last century or so. Boar War, World
War 1, World War 2, Korean War, Falklands, Iraq 1, Iraq 2. Not much
religion there.
Even Kosovo was to do with race and cultural identity rather than
religion....

Not saying all religions are helpful, or that all religious people are
good. But please don't make gross and crass generalisations.

Now, where are Andy Hall and Natural Philosopher?

Regards,

Jon.

Tournifreak wrote:
. wrote:
snip
worryingly, probably more than is good for it to do so. sadly, it's
nigh on impossible to reason with the deluded that following their
'imaginary friend'
and all their crazy rules, rituals and rhetoric may not be the best
way to build a safe and tolerant world (the last 2000 years of
christianity proves that let alone these newly invented cults) the
sane must sit back and hope all this bull**** burns it's self out
without taking us with it.

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread but since other people
seem to be up for a discussion and Chris Bacon doesn't appear to be
around...

snip

Do you see religion as an entirely bad thing then?

YES.

the wasteland of evidence surrounds us. have a gander.

Not saying all religions are helpful, or that all religious people are
good. But please don't make gross and crass generalisations.

eh ? like wot you've just done ?

I take onboard all you've said but take this: remove /any and all/ "gods"
from your imagined 'reality' and consider this : there is no evil without
a GOD. it all boils down to human nature, good guy, bad guy. right v wrong.

no one else to blame. we're here alone.

every 'good' you've described as attributable to a 'god' could have
been performed out of the goodness of ones own good natured
heart. person to person, sans dogma, fighting, strange frocks, the
child abuse, inequality towards women ... beheadings ... corruption,
george bush and his daily bible readings ..... get a ****ing grip....

!! hallelujahgobble !! ( quote: teh freak brothers ) ;-)

In message . com,
Tournifreak writes

. wrote:
snip
worryingly, probably more than is good for it to do so. sadly, it's nigh on
impossible to reason with the deluded that following their 'imaginary friend'
and all their crazy rules, rituals and rhetoric may not be the best
way to build a
safe and tolerant world (the last 2000 years of christianity proves
that let alone
these newly invented cults) the sane must sit back and hope all this bull****
burns it's self out without taking us with it.

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread but since other people
seem to be up for a discussion and Chris Bacon doesn't appear to be
around...

Do you see religion as an entirely bad thing then?

Yes


So don't you think you might be giving religious groups an unfairly
hard time?

No

From this you should be able to tell that I'm not up for a prolonged
argument

--
geoff

.. wrote:
Tournifreak wrote:
. wrote:
snip
worryingly, probably more than is good for it to do so. sadly, it's
nigh on impossible to reason with the deluded that following their
'imaginary friend'
and all their crazy rules, rituals and rhetoric may not be the best
way to build a safe and tolerant world (the last 2000 years of
christianity proves that let alone these newly invented cults) the
sane must sit back and hope all this bull**** burns it's self out
without taking us with it.

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread but since other people
seem to be up for a discussion and Chris Bacon doesn't appear to be
around...

snip

Do you see religion as an entirely bad thing then?

YES.

the wasteland of evidence surrounds us. have a gander.

OK. Let's look at the wars again shall we? Sure, religion has been
implicated in wars. Bad things have been done by bad people in the name
of religion. But let's look at the last century shall we? Atheism has
been by far the greatest cause of loss of life of any ideology. Nazism,
inspired by the philosophy of the athiest Neitzche, resulted in the
holocaust. Over 6 million dead. With the rise of atheist Communism, 60
million died in Stalin's gulags. Over a million died in Pol-Pot's
killing fields. That's probably more than the combined total of all the
so-called religious wars in past history.

So what evidence are _you_ talking about?

Or are you going to ignore all the evidence I've already cited?

Not saying all religions are helpful, or that all religious people are
good. But please don't make gross and crass generalisations.

eh ? like wot you've just done ?

No. I just gave a while list of evidence to suggest that religion can
be good. I didn't see much in the way of generalisation there.

I take onboard all you've said but take this: remove /any and all/ "gods"
from your imagined 'reality' and consider this : there is no evil without
a GOD. it all boils down to human nature, good guy, bad guy. right v wrong.

Sure. I agree with you. Some of us are worse than others. But I do
wonder if we are actually all quite a bit worse than we like to
believe. When you see what happens when anarchy takes hold and social
behavioural norms are destroyed, it can be pretty scary. Look at Bosnia
- when war breaks out and anyone can get away with anything, people
rape and murder their neighbours. Armed gangs ran amuck in New Orleans
when the opportunity arose. And tens of thousands of people in war-time
Germany just went along with the holocaust because everyone else was
doing it.

no one else to blame. we're here alone.

every 'good' you've described as attributable to a 'god' could have
been performed out of the goodness of ones own good natured
heart.
Sure, there are good people around.

person to person, sans dogma, fighting, strange frocks, the
child abuse, inequality towards women ... beheadings ... corruption,
george bush
....and there are bad people.

what's your point?

Regards,

Jon.

raden wrote:
In message . com,
Tournifreak writes

. wrote:
snip
worryingly, probably more than is good for it to do so. sadly, it's nigh on
impossible to reason with the deluded that following their 'imaginary friend'
and all their crazy rules, rituals and rhetoric may not be the best
way to build a
safe and tolerant world (the last 2000 years of christianity proves
that let alone
these newly invented cults) the sane must sit back and hope all this bull****
burns it's self out without taking us with it.

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread but since other people
seem to be up for a discussion and Chris Bacon doesn't appear to be
around...

Do you see religion as an entirely bad thing then?

Yes


So don't you think you might be giving religious groups an unfairly
hard time?

No

From this you should be able to tell that I'm not up for a prolonged
argument

That's OK. I'm not into ramming religion down anyone's throat. If
people want to talk, I'll talk. I don't mind if the thread dies. DIY is
interesting too :-)

Regards,
Jon.

Tournifreak wrote:

snip

what's your point?

you are a tit.

/end

John Cartmell wrote:
In article ,
. [email protected] wrote:
I'm all for following the french line and banning any and all signs
of religion in schools and other places of learning and banning
outright
all faith based schools as they are cultist training grounds,
indoctrinating children with false information, putting superstition
over science and laying the foundations for problems for future
generations.

It can be. I've taught in a number of faith schools and I'm clear
that it need not be the case.

bollix. with 'respek'

it's child abuse of the most sinister kind.

It certainly can be. It can also be quite otherwise. I've known faith
schools where it is possible to produce a proper appreciation of all
faiths (or none) and non-faith schools where there is an ignorance of
other peoples' points of view.

stiener / quaker (mea culpa) outwith those, thou art most wrongeth.

so mote it be.

ramen

John Cartmell wrote:
In article .com,
Tournifreak wrote:
No. I just gave a while list of evidence to suggest that religion can
be good. I didn't see much in the way of generalisation there.

Back to the last OT debate:

"Good men will do good; evil men will do evil. But it takes religion to make
good men do evil."

I would argue, it takes religion to make bad men do good! (At least in
my life and the lives of many others I know)

Regards,
Jon.

.. wrote:
Tournifreak wrote:

snip

what's your point?

you are a tit.

/end

OK.

In article .com,
Tournifreak wrote:

John Cartmell wrote:
In article .com,
Tournifreak wrote:
No. I just gave a while list of evidence to suggest that religion can
be good. I didn't see much in the way of generalisation there.

Back to the last OT debate:

"Good men will do good; evil men will do evil. But it takes religion to
make good men do evil."

I would argue, it takes religion to make bad men do good! (At least in my
life and the lives of many others I know)

No. It may change evil men into good men.

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
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