Hi All

The day job finally finished, I will end up with enough dosh to keep me
going for 5-6 months.

At 54 I don't think its worth looking for another job, I doubt I would find
one that paid as well as the old one anyway.

I have two 'strengths'. One is as a magician (adults, not kids parties) and
the second is DIY - I can do most things well. I plan to push the magic
side hard - I've been doing it part time for 10 years+ and without being
immodest I'm damn good at it. It's well paid, but you really only work
weekends.

To earn a bit extra Mon-Fri I'm going to start up a 'Handyman' business
locally. I have all the tools and I've done most things.

My day job was in sales, so I understand the business & marketing side of
things.

What I need to know however, is what consumables to carry on the van.

Screws & fixings obviously, but I reckon basic plumbing will be a common
job. Plumbing in dishwashers, washing machines etc, and toilets that
overflow, won't flush, taps that drip etc.

Looking through the Screwfix catalogue it makes sense to buy some van
stock - they are much cheaper than B&Q or local shops.

What would the team suggest as an initial stock?

Any other advice welcome :-)

Dave

david lang wrote:
Hi All

The day job finally finished, I will end up with enough dosh to keep me
going for 5-6 months.

At 54 I don't think its worth looking for another job, I doubt I would find
one that paid as well as the old one anyway.

To earn a bit extra Mon-Fri I'm going to start up a 'Handyman' business
locally. I have all the tools and I've done most things.

You know, I'm giving serious consideration to doing this myself as some
sort of sabattical.

I'd be very interested to know how you get on.

I'm no Magician however, so i'd be relying on the handyman business to
pay the mortgage ;-)

I suggest you get hold of "PoP" via email who used to be on this group
some time ago and who left to do this very thing. I'd have thought he'd
be able to give some pointers.

Cheers

Paul.

david lang wrote:

What I need to know however, is what consumables to carry on the van.

Pretty broad question... depends allot on the type of stuff you get
asked to do.

Screws & fixings obviously, but I reckon basic plumbing will be a common
job. Plumbing in dishwashers, washing machines etc, and toilets that
overflow, won't flush, taps that drip etc.

Yup, sounds likely.

For plumbing, a reasonable selection of pipe fittings, and perhaps a
reel of plastic pipe in 15 and 22mm. A set of basic contract basin taps
and spare washers perhaps. Washing machine valves, waste stand pipes,
spare traps, plugs even. Radiator valves (including TRVs), CH inhibitor.
A few types of siamp / fluidmaster / torbek type cistern valves. gas,
solder, ptfe tape, silicone grease.

Basic electrical accessories like single and double sockets, light
switches and pull switches. Some FCUs, cable, earth sleeving, crimps etc.

A selection of glues, solvents, and sticky tapes (gaffer obviously!)

What would the team suggest as an initial stock?

Nothing too specialised in the plumbing or electrical range since there
are plenty of specialist dealers in this sort of stuff in most places.

You will probably get through a fair bit of timber, but it is not always
practical to carry that much on spec, but basic carcassing, shelving and
floorboarding would seem like a good start.

I would expect identifying good local suppliers would be as much value
as anything else - why tie your money up holding stock when you can use
theirs!

Any other advice welcome :-)

The usual stuff - keep the money separate from your own. There might be
value in getting a merchant account and facilities to accept credit
cards - might make it easier to help people part with their money and to
upsell value added bits as you go.

Google back on this group for others who have done similar (Andrew McKay
/ Kazmax / Pop / HandyMac would be one to look for)

Buy a good selection of gloves (i.e. rigger, latex, nitrile etc) -
damaged or stained hands won't do the weekend job any good!

Let us know how you get on!



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 20 Jan 2006 17:50:31 -0800, wrote:


david lang wrote:
Hi All

The day job finally finished, I will end up with enough dosh to keep me
going for 5-6 months.

At 54 I don't think its worth looking for another job, I doubt I would find
one that paid as well as the old one anyway.

To earn a bit extra Mon-Fri I'm going to start up a 'Handyman' business
locally. I have all the tools and I've done most things.

You know, I'm giving serious consideration to doing this myself as some
sort of sabattical.

I'd be very interested to know how you get on.

I'm no Magician however, so i'd be relying on the handyman business to
pay the mortgage ;-)

I suggest you get hold of "PoP" via email who used to be on this group
some time ago and who left to do this very thing. I'd have thought he'd
be able to give some pointers.

Cheers

Paul.


That would be a good idea Paul.

I am pretty sure that he isn't doing this any more.

When I spoke to him, there were several challenges from the nature of
this type of business:

- Bittiness. In other words, lots of relatively short running jobs -
an hour here, a couple of hours there. This is the nature of the
typical jobs available - i.e. those that doing individual trades (e.g.
plumber, electrician, gas fitter etc) either wouldn't do, or would fit
in between larger jobs. The effect is that there is a lot of non
productive time in between jobs when one is not making money, but
effectively spending it on transport etc. People are used to paying a
£40-50 call out charge for a plumber or gas fitter because often it is
a distress purchase anyway and some work is included. From the
plumber/gas fitter's perspective, it's a way of smoothing the time and
travel costs for short jobs. Would they pay a handyman on that basis?

- Customer expectation of amount to pay. What is an old lady going to
expect to pay for having a tap washer changed, or a new pendant and
flex on a light fitting? A tenner plus materials? Probably no more.
Relatives and friends expecting a cheap job? What if you screw
something up?

- Customer impression of what you can do. Customer wants a hot water
cylinder changed. You can do that, of course. However, would they
call a handyman to do that, or a plumber? So this is a marketing
issue. What do you position yourself as? Handyman, plumbing jobs
undertaken? This takes you down the path of accepting some jobs and
not others. Would you then get repeat business from customers if you
turn down too many things that are beyond you legally or in the
customer's perception?

- Regulation. You won't be able to do anything related to gas.
Because of CORGI's marketing, in many people's minds this probably
rules out anything to do with heating systems - e.g. a new motorised
valve or pump - even though these are not regulated. Most people
don't yet know about part P of the Building Regulations, but if you
stick to the letter of the law, you are in fairly limited handyman
territory.

All of this assumes that you are business aware - I am sure that both
David Lang and you are - but doing the business "stuff" such as
marketing, prospecting for and quoting work and billing and collecting
money eats into time.

So, whether being a handyman is viable as a sole source of income, I'm
not sure. It may be dependent on where one lives, although I have a
feeling that customer expectation of what they will pay will track
local cost of living to a fair degree.

I suspect that this is why people contemplating something like this as
a longer term career objective go for one of the specific trades
involving training and qualification.

As a minimum, it would be a Good Idea to make a business plan,
starting from what you need to make net to live, grossing it up and
adding in costs such as insurances, transport etc. Then consider that
you could well have 50% down time or perhaps more (i.e. unproductive
time between jobs). That should tell you what you would need to
charge. You could then call a few handymen and ask them to quote for
such jobs and see whether the numbers add up.


None of this is to pour cold water on the idea - a career change or
sabattical are very appealing things - however I think that one also
has to look without the rose tinted spectacles.



--

..andy

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 00:08:38 GMT, "david lang"
wrote:


Any other advice welcome :-)

Slip your location into your next followup - some of us could really
do with a handyman although we would NEVER admit it...

--
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

There's loads of work out there if you are any good, so you don't need
to cover all bases. I'd think about which sort of work I most enjoy and
move to specialise in that, joinery, roofing, plumbing, electrical
repairs etc whatever. Then kit up appropriately. Jack of all trades
master of non - and also you tend to get lumbered with crappo minor
jobs which although easy to do are difficult to do economically,
especially if you've had to go out and search for a particular
component which can take all day.

bet of luck
Jacob

Andy Hall wrote:

None of this is to pour cold water on the idea - a career change or
sabattical are very appealing things - however I think that one also
has to look without the rose tinted spectacles.

Most of what you say is correct I'd just add this:

Buy the stuff you need as you get the work for it. Carrying stock is a
pointless overhead to carry. It will get lost or stolen long before you
get a chance to use it.

Take care what tools you leave in the van as they can even disappear
from your drive if you go for breakfast without securing them properly.

Your main problem is getting work and knowing what you are doing. Going
to see a job takes half a day, with no guarantee you will get it, so
small jobs for people you don't know are going to be expensive if you
are not careful and lucky.

If it's a littl old lady wanting a tap washer fitted by all means call
and do it but don't charge her the first time. When she want's more
done perhaps give her a fairly small bill to cover your petrol. Either
that or tell her you can't afford to do the job.

If you are seen as honest and responsible you may get asked to do a
better paying job by a neighbour. (Don't rely on that fat chance to
pay any bills. It is strictly a civic responsibility. I'll do freebies
for neighbours like that because I haven't got a life. There isn't a
living in it, so don't bother trying.)

A customer who phones a competent and experienced local tradesman will
get a rough estimate over the phone that will be pretty much on the
mark. You won't be able to copy that for a while. And it would be wrong
to charge too much for small jobs to make up for it as they will soon
spread word around about how much of a luxury item you are.

Wherever you go, take all your tools with you at all times. So you want
to carry them around in a shoulder strapped bag. Buckets and boxes are
OK for reasonably secure sites.

The lad who fitted my electricity meter even put all his tools together
and took them with him from room to room in my small flat. You either
do that or buy cheap tools often. One way or another, losing stuff is
going to be the bane of the job for you.

Going back to a place to retrieve a £15 claw hammer is an expensive
outlay. All the more so when you are supposed to be using it in someone
else's attic at the time. Doing that could cost double, so it might be
best to just forget the old one and buy new.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 20 Jan 2006 17:50:31 -0800, wrote:



All of this assumes that you are business aware - I am sure that both
David Lang and you are - but doing the business "stuff" such as
marketing, prospecting for and quoting work and billing and collecting
money eats into time.

Years ago, when Spouse was unemployed, he wanted formally to set up as the
Local Odd Job Man - because he was always being asked to do things anyway
and he could. I was terrified at the idea - because of all the business
stuff. Efficient management is vital, he wasn't capable and he though I
could do it but I knew my limitations. I also knew that he'd never be
prepared to charge a sensible rate for any job. Neighbours expect you to do
them favours ...


I suspect that this is why people contemplating something like this as
a longer term career objective go for one of the specific trades
involving training and qualification.

Yes.

As a minimum, it would be a Good Idea to make a business plan,
starting from what you need to make net to live, grossing it up and
adding in costs such as insurances, transport etc. Then consider that
you could well have 50% down time or perhaps more (i.e. unproductive
time between jobs). That should tell you what you would need to
charge. You could then call a few handymen and ask them to quote for
such jobs and see whether the numbers add up.

The hidden costs and overheads MUST be taken into account. A washer might
only cost pennies but the structure involved in sourcing, buying,
transporting, storing, knowing what to do with it, cost and time in
travelling there and back and the time taken to do the job (even if it's
only minutes) even without such things as protective clothing, tools,
laundry, car, stock and accident insurance, pension, national insurance,
bank charges, as well as the time not being paid for between changing washer
jobs is expensive. For more ambitious tasks there might be plant hiring
charges. And the minefield of having to employ somebody else even for
occasional part time help ... There will be other costs, these are just the
one I can think of off the top of my head. It's terrifying.


None of this is to pour cold water on the idea - a career change or
sabattical are very appealing things - however I think that one also
has to look without the rose tinted spectacles.

I agree 100%.

Mary

Geoffrey wrote:

Slip your location into your next followup - some of us could really
do with a handyman although we would NEVER admit it...

Rochester, Kent.

Dave

"david lang" wrote in message
. ..
Geoffrey wrote:

Slip your location into your next followup - some of us could really
do with a handyman although we would NEVER admit it...

Rochester, Kent.

Dave

Do you travel as far as Belfast? I have a U-bend that still isn't fixed...
and the useless twit is off this week to Oz...

"david lang" wrote in message
...
Hi All

The day job finally finished, I will end up with enough dosh to keep me
going for 5-6 months.

At 54 I don't think its worth looking for another job, I doubt I would
find one that paid as well as the old one anyway.

I have two 'strengths'. One is as a magician (adults, not kids parties)
and the second is DIY - I can do most things well. I plan to push the
magic side hard - I've been doing it part time for 10 years+ and without
being immodest I'm damn good at it. It's well paid, but you really only
work weekends.

To earn a bit extra Mon-Fri I'm going to start up a 'Handyman' business
locally. I have all the tools and I've done most things.

My day job was in sales, so I understand the business & marketing side of
things.

What I need to know however, is what consumables to carry on the van.

Screws & fixings obviously, but I reckon basic plumbing will be a common
job. Plumbing in dishwashers, washing machines etc, and toilets that
overflow, won't flush, taps that drip etc.

Looking through the Screwfix catalogue it makes sense to buy some van
stock - they are much cheaper than B&Q or local shops.

What would the team suggest as an initial stock?

Very little, until you get a feel for what you need - stock is all
overheads. For the plumbing, I would only carry a few compression fittings,
spare olives and as many different types of washer as you can. If you need
something else, you just say 'I used the last of those on my previous job -
I'll have to pop down to the supplier for some more' and go and buy one. Buy
your bits from Wolseley (Plumbcenter, Pipecenter, Draincenter, Hirecenter,
Buildcenter, Climatecenter and Partscenter), or another trade supplier. Get
a trade account if you can - you will get a discount off list prices (I only
get about 7.2% off pipe fittings, but that is 7.2% more profit) and they are
cheaper than B&Q or local shops to start with.

Colin Bignell

Andy Hall wrote:
- Bittiness. In other words, lots of relatively short running jobs -
an hour here, a couple of hours there. This is the nature of the
typical jobs available - i.e. those that doing individual trades (e.g.
plumber, electrician, gas fitter etc) either wouldn't do, or would fit
in between larger jobs.

I've done a lot of research into this. The bittiness is what makes the
money, The larger handyman comnapies & franchises all operate on the basis;
that they do jobs individual tradesmen aren't interested in. The way they
charge for thier time is by having a high rate for the first half hour, then
a reasonable hourly rate afterwards. A cal out by amother name.

Most of them do't actually want bigger jobs because they are then in direct
competition with individual tradesmen. So whilst they will fix a toilet
that overflows, they won't even quote for installing a complete bathromm
suite.


- Customer expectation of amount to pay. What is an old lady going to
expect to pay for having a tap washer changed, or a new pendant and
flex on a light fitting? A tenner plus materials? Probably no more.
Relatives and friends expecting a cheap job? What if you screw
something up?

I think thats a marketing issue. I have access to the CACI listings for
local postcodes and my marketing will be directed to people who have the
money! Fortunately the Medway Towns are commuter land, so there are lots of
cash rich/time poor potentiual clients.

So this is a marketing
issue. What do you position yourself as? Handyman, plumbing jobs
undertaken? This takes you down the path of accepting some jobs and
not others. Would you then get repeat business from customers if you
turn down too many things that are beyond you legally or in the
customer's perception?

The whole thing is about good marketing IMO, you are dead right. Bearing in
mind I've been in sales & marketing for 30+ years I have a good head start
here. For example, there are about 6 'handymen' listed in the local
directory - none has a box add, none has a website. No doubt they are
cheap, but they can only bill a caertain amount of hours in a week.

- Regulation. You won't be able to do anything related to gas.

That suits me actually

Most people
don't yet know about part P of the Building Regulations, but if you
stick to the letter of the law, you are in fairly limited handyman
territory.

Again, it's the quick jobs I can do that appear most profitable. For a
complete house rewire I would have to compete with individual tradesmen -
and I don't want to.

I do have several useful friends a - CORGI gas fitter, an electrician, a
decorator etc. I've discussed a reciprical arrangement with them, in that
they pass small handyman stuff to me and I pass on larger or regulated jobs
to them.


So, whether being a handyman is viable as a sole source of income, I'm
not sure. It may be dependent on where one lives, although I have a
feeling that customer expectation of what they will pay will track
local cost of living to a fair degree.

Good point. The Medway Towns is a large urban connurbation with a
population of 250,000 approx and is 'commuter land'. Housing is the most
expensive in Kent because of that and several areas are becoming 'trendy' -
lofts, riverside apartments etc.

None of this is to pour cold water on the idea - a career change or
sabattical are very appealing things - however I think that one also
has to look without the rose tinted spectacles.

I don't think I have much choice given the job market for my age group - and
I look through the eyes of a cynic.

Thanks for taking the time & trouble to reply Andy, some food for thought
which I appreciate.

Dave

Suz wrote:
Do you travel as far as Belfast? I have a U-bend that still isn't
fixed... and the useless twit is off this week to Oz...

No problem, there is the call out fee
though........................................

:-)

Dave

Weatherlawyer wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:

None of this is to pour cold water on the idea - a career change or
sabattical are very appealing things - however I think that one also
has to look without the rose tinted spectacles.

Most of what you say is correct I'd just add this:

Thanks guys, very good food for thought.

I'm in the fortunate position of having about 5-6 months buffer on
morgage too. But i'm pretty much burnt out in IT at the moment & need a
break for a few months.

So I either take an unpaid sabbatical & go travelling, or look for
something part time that'll give me some pin money to play with.

Just exploring a few options.

Cheers

Paul.

Suz wrote:
Do you travel as far as Belfast? I have a U-bend that still isn't
fixed... and the useless twit is off this week to Oz...

You sound pretty much like my target market. You want the job done
properly, husband is a 'useless twit' away from home. If he is off to Oz
I'd assume a reasonable income level?

So, how would you see paying, for example £45 to have a reliable, polite,
tidy professional do the job and guarantee it?

I don't know what the local economy is like in Belfast, but I hear its doing
OK?

Just interested.

Dave

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:35:02 GMT, "david lang"
wrote:

So, how would you see paying, for example £45 to have a reliable, polite,
tidy professional do the job and guarantee it?

I have contemplated doing thne same for a few years. I think £45 would
be about right for the job, imho

I'd always thought of quoting £30-£35 for the first hour, subsequent
hours £15-£20. This includes fuel, labour and tools.

In addition to the hourly charge would be the cost of parts, parking
charges etc..etc.

So...in the theoretical case of the u-bend: parts £7, 1 hour labour
£35, total charge £42.

Would the market stand these sorts of prices?

sponix

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:35:02 GMT, "david lang"
wrote:

You sound pretty much like my target market. husband is...away from home.

LOL!

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:50:38 GMT, "david lang"
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
- Bittiness. In other words, lots of relatively short running jobs -
an hour here, a couple of hours there. This is the nature of the
typical jobs available - i.e. those that doing individual trades (e.g.
plumber, electrician, gas fitter etc) either wouldn't do, or would fit
in between larger jobs.

I've done a lot of research into this. The bittiness is what makes the
money, The larger handyman comnapies & franchises all operate on the basis;
that they do jobs individual tradesmen aren't interested in. The way they
charge for thier time is by having a high rate for the first half hour, then
a reasonable hourly rate afterwards. A cal out by amother name.

That's good. At least it sets an expectation.



Most of them do't actually want bigger jobs because they are then in direct
competition with individual tradesmen. So whilst they will fix a toilet
that overflows, they won't even quote for installing a complete bathromm
suite.


- Customer expectation of amount to pay. What is an old lady going to
expect to pay for having a tap washer changed, or a new pendant and
flex on a light fitting? A tenner plus materials? Probably no more.
Relatives and friends expecting a cheap job? What if you screw
something up?

I think thats a marketing issue. I have access to the CACI listings for
local postcodes and my marketing will be directed to people who have the
money! Fortunately the Medway Towns are commuter land, so there are lots of
cash rich/time poor potentiual clients.

Clearly that's the target market, as you say, plus you have a large
conurbation to address.



So this is a marketing
issue. What do you position yourself as? Handyman, plumbing jobs
undertaken? This takes you down the path of accepting some jobs and
not others. Would you then get repeat business from customers if you
turn down too many things that are beyond you legally or in the
customer's perception?

The whole thing is about good marketing IMO, you are dead right. Bearing in
mind I've been in sales & marketing for 30+ years I have a good head start
here. For example, there are about 6 'handymen' listed in the local
directory - none has a box add, none has a website. No doubt they are
cheap, but they can only bill a caertain amount of hours in a week.

Not altogether surprising. Thinking laterally, I wonder if it
would be worth contacting these individuals and assessing whether they
are any good at what they do. That's good market research anyway.
However, if they are, I wonder whether it would be interesting to do
some kind of local franchise/marketing arrangement with any that are.
Probably not something to consider until you have a customer base
yourself and an idea of the market size, but it occurs to me that this
could be a way of providing local service without needing to turn work
away.





- Regulation. You won't be able to do anything related to gas.

That suits me actually

Most people
don't yet know about part P of the Building Regulations, but if you
stick to the letter of the law, you are in fairly limited handyman
territory.

Again, it's the quick jobs I can do that appear most profitable.

Even with travelling time? I guess as long as you account for
it.....

For a
complete house rewire I would have to compete with individual tradesmen -
and I don't want to.

I do have several useful friends a - CORGI gas fitter, an electrician, a
decorator etc. I've discussed a reciprical arrangement with them, in that
they pass small handyman stuff to me and I pass on larger or regulated jobs
to them.

I think that there could also be a "making good" play here. In other
words sorting out the detailed stuff after the main trade work is
done. I bet that they find that time consuming.





So, whether being a handyman is viable as a sole source of income, I'm
not sure. It may be dependent on where one lives, although I have a
feeling that customer expectation of what they will pay will track
local cost of living to a fair degree.

Good point. The Medway Towns is a large urban connurbation with a
population of 250,000 approx and is 'commuter land'. Housing is the most
expensive in Kent because of that and several areas are becoming 'trendy' -
lofts, riverside apartments etc.

Has the right ingredients.



None of this is to pour cold water on the idea - a career change or
sabattical are very appealing things - however I think that one also
has to look without the rose tinted spectacles.

I don't think I have much choice given the job market for my age group - and
I look through the eyes of a cynic.

I think that you have to do that. At the very least, you are more
likely to be pleasantly surprised. :-)





Thanks for taking the time & trouble to reply Andy, some food for thought
which I appreciate.

Dave


--

..andy

"david lang" wrote in message
...
Hi All

The day job finally finished, I will end up with enough dosh to keep me
going for 5-6 months.

At 54 I don't think its worth looking for another job, I doubt I would
find one that paid as well as the old one anyway.

I have two 'strengths'. One is as a magician (adults, not kids parties)
and the second is DIY - I can do most things well. I plan to push the
magic side hard - I've been doing it part time for 10 years+ and without
being immodest I'm damn good at it. It's well paid, but you really only
work weekends.

To earn a bit extra Mon-Fri I'm going to start up a 'Handyman' business
locally. I have all the tools and I've done most things.

My day job was in sales, so I understand the business & marketing side of
things.

What I need to know however, is what consumables to carry on the van.

Screws & fixings obviously, but I reckon basic plumbing will be a common
job. Plumbing in dishwashers, washing machines etc, and toilets that
overflow, won't flush, taps that drip etc.

Looking through the Screwfix catalogue it makes sense to buy some van
stock - they are much cheaper than B&Q or local shops.

What would the team suggest as an initial stock?

Any other advice welcome :-)

Dave


Hi Dave, very interesting. I was in the same situation a couple of years
ago, sort of retired but looking for things to do to occupy my time. I made
it known in the village I live in (200 houses) I could do most things. I
thought I would do 2-3 days a week.

I did decorating, renovate bathrooms, lay floors, tiling, electrical (pre-
partP!) and other general handyman stuff except for ladder work. I charged
between 12 and 14 pounds per hour. Within 6 months I was working 5 full days
per week with a growing backlog of jobs, so there is work to be had.

As for stock, forget it, buy stuff on a per job basis or get the customer to
buy it. Get 3rd party liability insurance and keep good books as sure as
eggs is eggs someone will tell the tax man so best to tell him up front. You
can offset quite a lot and in the end I did not have to pay tax. I have
since finished that and take to selling on eBay as the full-time work got
too much. Fortunately I do not have a mortgage so it's easier for me.

Best of luck, you will do fine

--
brian
---------------------------------------------------------------
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Ashnook-Plants
www.ashnookplants.co.uk

"david lang" wrote in message
. ..
Suz wrote:
Do you travel as far as Belfast? I have a U-bend that still isn't
fixed... and the useless twit is off this week to Oz...

You sound pretty much like my target market. You want the job done
properly, husband is a 'useless twit' away from home. If he is off to Oz
I'd assume a reasonable income level?

So, how would you see paying, for example £45 to have a reliable, polite,
tidy professional do the job and guarantee it?

I don't know what the local economy is like in Belfast, but I hear its
doing OK?

Just interested.

Dave


Ecomony is pretty much booming in Belfast at the minute. Semi in a decent
burb now hitting the £200K mark.

£45 for a tidy polite and reliable man sounds OK, but the problem is finding
one. You are taking a chance with the yellow pages, and half the time they
aren't interested. If you were recommended by someone who knows you
personally I'd jump at it. If I could get someone that does lots of things I
could give him 3 days work - and I'd be happy to do the running and fetching
of needed materials. A price for 1/2 days work would be interesting to
know.

If you go for it, get a million small cards printed with your name & number
and give them to people who would be happy to recommend you. I'd also keep
a database of customers as you get them and then after a year you could send
them a cheap A5 leaflet. You would expect a handyman's cards etc to be
plain and basic, nothing flash.

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
oups.com...


If it's a littl old lady wanting a tap washer fitted by all means call
and do it but don't charge her the first time.

What if she's a big old lady?

Mary

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 14:23:17 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

|
|"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
roups.com...
|
|
| If it's a littl old lady wanting a tap washer fitted by all means call
|and do it but don't charge her the first time.
|
|What if she's a big old lady?

Alternative methods of payment ;-)
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net
For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/

sponix wrote:

I'd always thought of quoting £30-£35 for the first hour, subsequent
hours £15-£20. This includes fuel, labour and tools.

From the research I've done, the dearest was £40 for first half hour,
cheapest £30. Everyone charged more for the first half hour. A call out
fee by another name.

Per hour after that cheapest £30 dearest £40 (not the same people as in the
first example). Granted they were in London & NE Surrey, where you would
expect higher charges.

£30 & £30 seems about average.

So...in the theoretical case of the u-bend: parts £7, 1 hour labour
£35, total charge £42.

Would the market stand these sorts of prices?

It depends. The lower the prices, the more people willing to pay them &
vice versa. I think a balance has to be struck. I've just created a
spreadsheet where I can vary the number of jobs, number of hours, number of
'first half hours', hourly rates & initial half hour rates.

I want to get a feel for what variable makes the most money. It may be
better to charge a lower call out to get more work, or keep that higher &
rely on lots of quick jobs.

Dave

Suz wrote:
£45 for a tidy polite and reliable man sounds OK, but the problem is
finding one. You are taking a chance with the yellow pages, and half
the time they aren't interested.

Interesting!

If you were recommended by someone
who knows you personally I'd jump at it. If I could get someone that
does lots of things I could give him 3 days work - and I'd be happy
to do the running and fetching of needed materials. A price for 1/2
days work would be interesting to know.

The average seem to be £85 for a 3.5 hour half day & £160 for a 7 hour full
day.

If you go for it, get a million small cards printed with your name &
number and give them to people who would be happy to recommend you.

I have a lot of contacts in the local area, so I will be doing just that.

I'd also keep a database of customers as you get them and then after
a year you could send them a cheap A5 leaflet.

Good idea that, thanks.

Dave

david lang wrote:

I think thats a marketing issue. I have access to the CACI
listings for local postcodes and my marketing will be directed to
people who have the money! Fortunately the Medway Towns are
commuter land, so there are lots of cash rich/time poor
potentiual clients.


Seems to me that the critical thing would be to establish a regular
customer-base of cash rich/time poor households, each of whom will supply a
couple of minor jobs per year and also seek your advice on bigger
commissions. You mention elsewhere that you have some contacts in the
trades, so you might be able to leverage this.

You need to minimise the unproductive time spent getting to know people &
winning their trust etc, and repeat business is the way to go for that.
Repeat jobs involving a simple phone call could take half as long as dealing
with new customers every time.

To quickly build a regular 'round' you might want to offer "first job for
free" or "materials only" promotions in targeted wealthy areas? This gets
you through the door (remember that people are afraid of strangers nowadays,
especially in their home) and gives you a showcase for a quick, neat job.

Good luck!

david lang wrote:
Suz wrote:
Do you travel as far as Belfast? I have a U-bend that still
isn't fixed... and the useless twit is off this week to Oz...

You sound pretty much like my target market. You want the job
done properly, husband is a 'useless twit' away from home. If he
is off to Oz I'd assume a reasonable income level?

So, how would you see paying, for example £45 to have a reliable,
polite, tidy professional do the job and guarantee it?

I would pay that.

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message

If it's a little old lady wanting a tap washer fitted by all means call
and do it but don't charge her the first time.

What if she's a big old lady?

You can't make some jobs pay and that is all there is to it. You might
want to do some of them as favours if they are not going to cost you
anything. Whether or not you take a drink from whoever, depends more on
their circumstances than on one's own needs.

Some people need favours and never get them. It's always worth bearing
that in mind, just in case there is a god. What goes around comes
around and if there was ever a proof of the existance of god that is
the one.

How much can you charge someone for installing a washing machine if it
has been delivered and all the plumbing is done? Or put it this way:
How is a semi destitute, frail person going to pay for such a job when
it has cost them their food ration for the week just buying the
machine?

It's a ten minute job for most people but to call someone out, it has
to be a £50 job. Even if you could find 4 or 5 of those sort of jobs
one week, you would soon flood the market.

You'd have a thin time of the first 5 or 6 months before throwing in
the towel. You'd be beter off arranging a government course and trying
to find something on a site if you were interested enough in working at
a trade.

Suz wrote:

£45 for a tidy polite and reliable man sounds OK, but the problem
is finding one. You are taking a chance with the yellow pages,
and half the time they aren't interested. If you were
recommended by someone who knows you personally I'd jump at it.

That's exactly my point - don't advertise for serial one-off jobs, become
the trusted regular to a pool of households in the smallest possible area
(travel time). One big 'Barratt Executive Prefab' estate might be all you
need!

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 17:48:18 -0000, "Steve Walker"
wrote:

david lang wrote:

I think thats a marketing issue. I have access to the CACI
listings for local postcodes and my marketing will be directed to
people who have the money! Fortunately the Medway Towns are
commuter land, so there are lots of cash rich/time poor
potentiual clients.


Seems to me that the critical thing would be to establish a regular
customer-base of cash rich/time poor households, each of whom will supply a
couple of minor jobs per year and also seek your advice on bigger
commissions. You mention elsewhere that you have some contacts in the
trades, so you might be able to leverage this.

Aaaarrrghhhh. "Leverage" is a noun, not a verb.


You need to minimise the unproductive time spent getting to know people &
winning their trust etc, and repeat business is the way to go for that.
Repeat jobs involving a simple phone call could take half as long as dealing
with new customers every time.

To quickly build a regular 'round' you might want to offer "first job for
free" or "materials only" promotions in targeted wealthy areas? This gets
you through the door (remember that people are afraid of strangers nowadays,
especially in their home) and gives you a showcase for a quick, neat job.

Good luck!


--

..andy

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 17:51:10 -0000, "Steve Walker"
wrote:

david lang wrote:
Suz wrote:
Do you travel as far as Belfast? I have a U-bend that still
isn't fixed... and the useless twit is off this week to Oz...

You sound pretty much like my target market. You want the job
done properly, husband is a 'useless twit' away from home. If he
is off to Oz I'd assume a reasonable income level?

So, how would you see paying, for example £45 to have a reliable,
polite, tidy professional do the job and guarantee it?

I would pay that.



I think that there's a psychology here.


£45 seems a lot less than £50.


--

..andy

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
oups.com...

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message

If it's a little old lady wanting a tap washer fitted by all means call
and do it but don't charge her the first time.

What if she's a big old lady?

How much can you charge someone for installing a washing machine if it
has been delivered and all the plumbing is done? Or put it this way:
How is a semi destitute, frail person going to pay for such a job when
it has cost them their food ration for the week just buying the
machine?

Oh come on!

The size of the customer is irrelevant.

"david lang" wrote in message
...
Suz wrote:
£45 for a tidy polite and reliable man sounds OK, but the problem is
finding one. You are taking a chance with the yellow pages, and half
the time they aren't interested.

Interesting!

If you really want to make money the place to do it, I'm told by a friend
who lives there, is on the Isle of Arran. There's nobody to do odd jobs.
They asked us to move there just for that reason (they're hopeless). It's a
lovely place for younger people but we don't want to uproot now.

Mary

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 17:51:10 -0000, "Steve Walker"
wrote:

david lang wrote:
Suz wrote:
Do you travel as far as Belfast? I have a U-bend that still
isn't fixed... and the useless twit is off this week to Oz...

You sound pretty much like my target market. You want the job
done properly, husband is a 'useless twit' away from home. If he
is off to Oz I'd assume a reasonable income level?

So, how would you see paying, for example £45 to have a reliable,
polite, tidy professional do the job and guarantee it?

I would pay that.



I think that there's a psychology here.


£45 seems a lot less than £50.

Yes. Shopkeepers would price it at £49.99.

Mary

Suz wrote


£45 for a tidy polite and reliable man sounds OK, but the problem is
finding one. You are taking a chance with the yellow pages, and half
the time they aren't interested. If you were recommended by someone
who knows you personally I'd jump at it.

I'd go along with this - I can do some things, but not most.

When I've got tradesmen in it's been appalling, even from local residents
ass. mags etc., the only job I've had done right is fencing, and that was a
recommendation.

I can only assume that the good handymen don't need to advertise, anyhow
how do you pick from the thousands?

So I'd think you should be able to get a customer base.

(I'm not cash rich, time poor, more cash ok, skills poor).

I wish you lived round here!



--

mike

Steve Walker wrote:

That's exactly my point - don't advertise for serial one-off jobs,
become the trusted regular to a pool of households in the smallest
possible area (travel time). One big 'Barratt Executive Prefab'
estate might be all you need!

Too true! All that snagging !

Fortunately the Medway Towns covers an area only 10km by 20km with a
population of 250,000.

Dave

Andy Hall wrote:
You mention elsewhere that
you have some contacts in the trades, so you might be able to
leverage this.

Aaaarrrghhhh. "Leverage" is a noun, not a verb.

You are absolutely right, and I wish there was a smiley for 'shame'.

Unfortunately I toil in the sick, bloated corporate swamps, where words are
corrupted every day (we have a special committee for this now, I
understand). I must've brought a speck of contamination home on my
clothes - it won't happen again.

John Rumm wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:

Seems to me that the critical thing would be to establish a
regular customer-base of cash rich/time poor households, each of
whom will supply a couple of minor jobs per year and also seek
your advice on bigger commissions. You mention elsewhere that
you have some contacts in the trades, so you might be able to
leverage this.

It seems there is an opportunity here to "manage and tidy up" the
bigger projects without getting that closely involved yourself.

Say for example customer wants a complete a new bathroom, you
could do the requirements capture at the start and then run the
job calling on the services of plumbers, electricians,
plasterers, tilers etc. Then be on hand to smooth over all the
snagging etc at the end. The trades people may like the idea of
being able to get in and do the job without having to worry about
making good at the end or even spending too much time working
with the customer establishing requirements. Since you are not
doing all the work yourself you get a chance to duplicate your
time a little since you could probably run more than one job at a
time, or run one and carry out smaller handyman ones in parallel.

Yes, that's what I had in mind. Project manager, trusted by all.

Steve Walker wrote:

Seems to me that the critical thing would be to establish a regular
customer-base of cash rich/time poor households, each of whom will supply a
couple of minor jobs per year and also seek your advice on bigger
commissions. You mention elsewhere that you have some contacts in the
trades, so you might be able to leverage this.

It seems there is an opportunity here to "manage and tidy up" the bigger
projects without getting that closely involved yourself.

Say for example customer wants a complete a new bathroom, you could do
the requirements capture at the start and then run the job calling on
the services of plumbers, electricians, plasterers, tilers etc. Then be
on hand to smooth over all the snagging etc at the end. The trades
people may like the idea of being able to get in and do the job without
having to worry about making good at the end or even spending too much
time working with the customer establishing requirements. Since you are
not doing all the work yourself you get a chance to duplicate your time
a little since you could probably run more than one job at a time, or
run one and carry out smaller handyman ones in parallel.

You need to minimise the unproductive time spent getting to know people &
winning their trust etc, and repeat business is the way to go for that.
Repeat jobs involving a simple phone call could take half as long as dealing
with new customers every time.

I guess in reality you would have to analyse your sales records over a
period of time to work out where most profit comes from (i.e. repeat
business or new prospects), and devote your marketing efforts in an
appropriate proportion. It sounds like the sort of area where ones
initial assumptions may be way out.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 02:16:11 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

Nothing too specialised in the plumbing or electrical range since
there are plenty of specialist dealers in this sort of stuff in most
places.

Not round here there aren't. Nearest "trade" counters are 20+ miles
away... The figures for charges are interesting, I doubt I'd get away
with £40 for the first half hour, might £30 though. Hum...

I would expect identifying good local suppliers would be as much
value as anything else - why tie your money up holding stock when
you can use theirs!

I like that idea but the only "local suppliers" here would be all the
other local tradesmen...

One thing that hasn't been pointed out particulary well is the cost of
transport. Don't just think in terms of the fuel used. My vehicle cost
14p/mile in fuel (diesel, 28mpg) but 38p/mile when you take into
account insurance and maintenace but *not* depreciation. That 38p is
below the average ATM as it's due a service, after that service bill
hits I'd expect the cost to be 45p/mile or higher. So if you drive 20
miles, round trip, to do a job, that costs you £8.00 just for the
transport costs...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:03:06 GMT, david lang wrote:

Fortunately the Medway Towns covers an area only 10km by 20km with a
population of 250,000.

How do you cope with all those people? 10km by 20km and 2,100 people
round here.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail