Hi there,

We've just bought our first house and we need to move some radiator pipes. I
want to try and have a go at this myself before calling a professional.

I'm after some advice as to what type of pipe is best to use. I've read that
plastic pipe is simpler to use as it avoids the tricky soldering of copper
pipes.

So I was thinking of using plastic piping for under the floor boards and
then just connecting copper pipes for the upshoots to the radiators.

Does this sound like a good idea? Are plastic pipes to way to go? And does
anyone know any good websites with plumbing guides?

Many thanks in advance.

M.D.Palmer wrote:
Hi there,

We've just bought our first house and we need to move some radiator pipes. I
want to try and have a go at this myself before calling a professional.

I'm after some advice as to what type of pipe is best to use. I've read that
plastic pipe is simpler to use as it avoids the tricky soldering of copper
pipes.

So I was thinking of using plastic piping for under the floor boards and
then just connecting copper pipes for the upshoots to the radiators.

Does this sound like a good idea? Are plastic pipes to way to go? And does
anyone know any good websites with plumbing guides?

Many thanks in advance.

May well be a fine idea but soldering isn't tricky once you've gotten
used to it.

M.D.Palmer wrote:
Hi there,

We've just bought our first house and we need to move some radiator pipes. I
want to try and have a go at this myself before calling a professional.

I'm after some advice as to what type of pipe is best to use. I've read that
plastic pipe is simpler to use as it avoids the tricky soldering of copper
pipes.

You can use compression joints with copper pipes that are made simply
with a couple of spanners. If you are really opposed to soldering
(although its not that hard and certainly not "tricky"!) then these are
just as good, albeit a tad more expensive.

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:36:06 -0000, "M.D.Palmer"
wrote:

Hi there,

We've just bought our first house and we need to move some radiator pipes. I
want to try and have a go at this myself before calling a professional.

I'm after some advice as to what type of pipe is best to use. I've read that
plastic pipe is simpler to use as it avoids the tricky soldering of copper
pipes.

So I was thinking of using plastic piping for under the floor boards and
then just connecting copper pipes for the upshoots to the radiators.

Does this sound like a good idea? Are plastic pipes to way to go? And does
anyone know any good websites with plumbing guides?

Many thanks in advance.


You could do either.

Actually, doing soldered plumbing in copper is not very difficult at
all. The main thing is that everything needs to be drained and dry
and very importantly, cleaned with steel wool etc., before fluxing and
heating with a blow torch. You can get solder ring fittings where the
solder needed is already there = heat and you are done. You do need
to avoid disturbing the joint for a few seconds to make sure that the
solder doesn't move and result in a dry point, which can leak.

An alternative copper approach is with compression joints. A bit more
expensive than copper, and you need a couple of wrenches, but quick
and good results.

Plastic is also easy to work with. If you use it for heating, it does
need to be supported in more places than copper because it will sag
otherwise. You can push copper tubes into the fittings for plastic.

It is very important when using plastic fittings to have the ends of
the tube square and burr free. You can damage the fitting otherwise
and end up with water everywhere.

For cutting copper, a tubing cutter is a really good idea. These
clamp on to the tube and you rotate them, gradually doing up a knob
which causes a sharp wheel to slice into the copper. The result is a
square cut with a slightly rounded outside at the end. It will fit
easily into a plastic fitting or a copper or brass one.

For the plastic, a proper slicing cutter is important. These are a
simple tool like a set of shears and simply slice cleanly through the
tube, square.

For plastic plumbing, have a look on the John Guest web site. They
have a variety of application notes.


--

..andy

M.D.Palmer wrote:

I'm after some advice as to what type of pipe is best to use. I've read that
plastic pipe is simpler to use as it avoids the tricky soldering of copper
pipes.

Plastic is easy enough, but there are a few things to watch. Make sure
you use pipe inserts in the end of the pipe at each join. Cut the pipe
square using a plastic pipe cutting tool designed for the job.

So I was thinking of using plastic piping for under the floor boards and
then just connecting copper pipes for the upshoots to the radiators.

Yup, that is a common solution. Use can use pushfit fittings for
everything if you want. Again remember to get a pipe cutter for the
copper and *do not* use a hacksaw to cut it when using pushfit (the
sharp edges left on the pipe will damage the water sealing 'O' ring in
the fitting and it will leak.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Wow, fantastic posts guys. Many thanks!

Just want to double check something, so every time i make a cut of the
plastic pipe, I need to insert a pipe insert before connecting to the 90
degree angle or T joint etc?
Does this help stop the pipe from collapsing slightly?

The thing that worries me about using copper pipes is not being able to heat
the joint all the way around due to confined spaces under the floor boards.

Thanks again guys.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
M.D.Palmer wrote:

I'm after some advice as to what type of pipe is best to use. I've read
that plastic pipe is simpler to use as it avoids the tricky soldering of
copper pipes.

Plastic is easy enough, but there are a few things to watch. Make sure you
use pipe inserts in the end of the pipe at each join. Cut the pipe square
using a plastic pipe cutting tool designed for the job.

So I was thinking of using plastic piping for under the floor boards and
then just connecting copper pipes for the upshoots to the radiators.

Yup, that is a common solution. Use can use pushfit fittings for
everything if you want. Again remember to get a pipe cutter for the copper
and *do not* use a hacksaw to cut it when using pushfit (the sharp edges
left on the pipe will damage the water sealing 'O' ring in the fitting and
it will leak.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Just want to double check something, so every time i make a cut of the
plastic pipe, I need to insert a pipe insert before connecting to the 90
degree angle or T joint etc?

Yes. The inserts are very cheap, but must not be forgotten.

Does this help stop the pipe from collapsing slightly?

Yes.

The thing that worries me about using copper pipes is not being able to
heat
the joint all the way around due to confined spaces under the floor
boards.

That isn't a problem. The copper conducts heat very well and you don't need
to heat behind. The main issues with soldering are making sure all metalwork
has been properly scrubbed with wirewool/abrasive paper, ensuring that there
is no water in the pipework which will prevent a good join, and ensuring you
don't set fire to anything. I always have a proper fire extinguisher with
me, such as a 6kg ABC powder, or a 2kg CO2.

However, in concealed locations, plastic pipe is far easier to work with.
You can thread it along joists and feed it into holes etc, much more easily
than copper. You need far fewer joins and don't need to make precise bends
with a pipe bender. I only use copper when on show, or when rigidity is
important, such as where pumps and valves are being held. You usually must
use copper within a certain distance of a boiler, too. This will be stated
in the manufacturer's instructions.

I tend not to use push fit much with plastic. I find compression joints to
be easier (it is easy not to push the pipe in far enough with push fit when
in tight spots) and, more importantly, they are a fraction of the price.

Christian.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
M.D.Palmer wrote:

Hi there,

We've just bought our first house and we need to move some radiator
pipes. I want to try and have a go at this myself before calling a
professional.

I'm after some advice as to what type of pipe is best to use. I've
read that plastic pipe is simpler to use as it avoids the tricky
soldering of copper pipes.

So I was thinking of using plastic piping for under the floor boards
and then just connecting copper pipes for the upshoots to the
radiators.

Does this sound like a good idea? Are plastic pipes to way to go? And
does anyone know any good websites with plumbing guides?

Many thanks in advance.

If you *do* use plastic pipe, make sure that it is barrier type to stop any
air from getting in. Plasic pipe is fine for vertical runs where it doesn't
show. If you use it for horizontal runs, you really need to support it all
the way on a plank of wood. Otherwise it will sag and encourage air locks.

My preference would be to use copper pipe. If you're not comfortable with
soldering or compression joints, use copper push-fit like
http://tinyurl.com/75rmw

These are easy to work with, and can be dismantled (using the correct
release tool) if desired. If you need to put them where they show, they look
much better than plastic pushfit fittings.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Note that a cheap hot-air gun can take the copper temperature high
enough for soldering!
An alternative to flame.

Mungo

"M.D.Palmer" wrote in message
...
Wow, fantastic posts guys. Many thanks!
snip

The thing that worries me about using copper pipes is not being able to
heat the joint all the way around due to confined spaces under the floor
boards.

Thanks again guys.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
M.D.Palmer wrote:
snip

=================
Get a piece of thin metal about 12" x 8" and bend it to a curve so that it
fits about 3" behind the joint you're soldering. This will protect the
surrounding area and will also reflect the heat of the blowlamp back onto
the back of the joint. Reflecting the heat back is less important than
protecting the surrounding area from accidental damage.

Make sure that the bit of metal is soft enough to bend by hand (so that
you
can adjust for different situations) but strong enough to keep its shape
when in use.

Cic.

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:46:48 -0000, "M.D.Palmer"
wrote:

Wow, fantastic posts guys. Many thanks!

Just want to double check something, so every time i make a cut of the
plastic pipe, I need to insert a pipe insert before connecting to the 90
degree angle or T joint etc?
Does this help stop the pipe from collapsing slightly?

Yes to all of the above. Do make sure that you get the ones from the
same manufacturer as the fitting. THey vary quite a bit.


The thing that worries me about using copper pipes is not being able to heat
the joint all the way around due to confined spaces under the floor boards.


Copper conducts heat well. You may need to protect behind the
fitting with a heat mat to avoid singing the joists etc.


--

..andy

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:46:48 -0000, "M.D.Palmer"
wrote:

Wow, fantastic posts guys. Many thanks!

Just want to double check something, so every time i make a cut of the
plastic pipe, I need to insert a pipe insert before connecting to the 90
degree angle or T joint etc?
Does this help stop the pipe from collapsing slightly?

The thing that worries me about using copper pipes is not being able to heat
the joint all the way around due to confined spaces under the floor boards.


If space is limited, then plastic is the way to go. I haven't
soldered a joint in ages. Push-fit is just so quick although I still
use copper pipe with it.

Plastic pipe can also be more easily fed under the floorboards,
without having to take up so many as to get a good length of copper
in.

To answer your question, yes, always use the pipe inserts with plastic
pipe to strengthen it and stop it collapsing, as you say. Not
necessary with copper pipe into the plastic fitting though.

If you are going to do lots of this then definitely buy a proper pipe
slice for the copper and snips for the plastic pipe.

I've just done a full central heating job and only used copper for the
radiator legs and a short run near the boiler. 15mm Hep2o elbow
something like £1 each I would guess and two pushes and the jobs done.

Rob