does anyone know of a good on-line site giving details of how to
construct cavity walls


--
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"Lawrence Zarb" wrote in message
news:ab311db328d41a2c533c3e11bd589a01.52329@mygate .mailgate.org...
does anyone know of a good on-line site giving details of how to
construct cavity walls

One brick width gap.

External skin / width of brick / internal skin

BigWallop wrote:
"Lawrence Zarb" wrote in message
news:ab311db328d41a2c533c3e11bd589a01.52329@mygate .mailgate.org...
does anyone know of a good on-line site giving details of how to
construct cavity walls

One brick width gap.

External skin / width of brick / internal skin

Conventionally laid in rows, starting at the bottom...

"Lawrence Zarb" wrote in message
news:ab311db328d41a2c533c3e11bd589a01.52329@mygate .mailgate.org...

does anyone know of a good on-line site giving details of how to
construct cavity walls

Why? Why build two walls when one can do. There is nothing in the regs
that says cavity walls "have" to be built. The Germans think we are mad.
Build one strong skin and use the rest of the space taken up by the other
skin for insulation to drop your heating bills substantially. Don't just do
what the other dickheads do. Think!

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Lawrence Zarb" wrote in message
news:ab311db328d41a2c533c3e11bd589a01.52329@mygate .mailgate.org...

does anyone know of a good on-line site giving details of how to
construct cavity walls

Why? Why build two walls when one can do. There is nothing in the regs
that says cavity walls "have" to be built. The Germans think we are mad.
Build one strong skin and use the rest of the space taken up by the other
skin for insulation to drop your heating bills substantially. Don't just
do
what the other dickheads do. Think!

But make sure you allow for a moisture barrier between the skins or layers
of the wall, or you'll end up with dampness creeping through the outer skin
/ layer and in to your internal skin / layer.

A ventilated cavity is a simple method to prevent this from happening.
Funnily, this is a method also used by the others that laugh at us, so is
pretty well a universal method of preventing moisture ingress through a
buildings outer skins and insulating materials.

"BigWallop" wrote in message
. uk...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Lawrence Zarb" wrote in message
news:ab311db328d41a2c533c3e11bd589a01.52329@mygate .mailgate.org...

does anyone know of a good on-line site giving details of how to
construct cavity walls

Why? Why build two walls when one can do. There is nothing in the regs
that says cavity walls "have" to be built. The Germans think we are
mad.
Build one strong skin and use the rest of the space taken up by the
other
skin for insulation to drop your heating bills substantially. Don't
just
do
what the other dickheads do. Think!

But make sure you allow for a moisture barrier between the skins or layers
of the wall, or you'll end up with dampness creeping through the outer
skin
/ layer and in to your internal skin / layer.

And make sure the outer skin is waterproof, as with all walls.

A ventilated cavity is a simple method to prevent this from happening.
Funnily, this is a method also used by the others that laugh at us, so is
pretty well a universal method of preventing moisture ingress through a
buildings outer skins and insulating materials.

Cavities are not universal. Only in coastal wind blown regions are cavities
used and the they use render on the outside to seal in the walls; Cornwall,
Brittany, etc.

In article ,
"Steve Walker" writes:
BigWallop wrote:
"Lawrence Zarb" wrote in message
news:ab311db328d41a2c533c3e11bd589a01.52329@mygate .mailgate.org...
does anyone know of a good on-line site giving details of how to
construct cavity walls

One brick width gap.

External skin / width of brick / internal skin

Conventionally laid in rows, starting at the bottom...

It's not a bad idea to tie them together occasionally too.
A number of Wilson Connolly new home owners have discovered
what happens when this isn't done...

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
"Doctor Evil" writes:

Cavities are not universal. Only in coastal wind blown regions are cavities
used and the they use render on the outside to seal in the walls; Cornwall,
Brittany, etc.

That was true around 1880.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Mind Boggles" wrote in message
...
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
"Doctor Evil" writes:

Cavities are not universal. Only in coastal wind blown regions are
cavities
used and the they use render on the outside to seal in the walls;
Cornwall,
Brittany, etc.

That was true around 1880.

Which was about the year

The mind does boggle. Have you tried anti boggling treatment?

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
does anyone know of a good on-line site giving details of how to
construct cavity walls

One brick width gap.

External skin / width of brick / internal skin

Conventionally laid in rows, starting at the bottom...

It's not a bad idea to tie them together occasionally too.
A number of Wilson Connolly new home owners have discovered
what happens when this isn't done...

For real ? How on earth wasn't that picked up at BC inspection ? And
what sort of brickie doesn't use ties ?

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
"Doctor Evil" writes:

Cavities are not universal. Only in coastal wind blown regions are
cavities
used and the they use render on the outside to seal in the walls;
Cornwall,
Brittany, etc.

That was true around 1880.


Well actually I hate to say this but if you look at all construction
processes used around the globe today, IMM is on average correct. Cavities
are one way of achieving the goal described earlier in the thread and they
work very well, but some places have more over-riding problems such as
earthquakes and so the insulating and damp-rejection has to be achieved in a
secondary manner to the primary concern of staying upright. There's a lot
of housing in the US built to early 20th century European norms which
everybody knows will come straight down when the big one hits.

In article ,
"Mike" writes:

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .

It's not a bad idea to tie them together occasionally too.
A number of Wilson Connolly new home owners have discovered
what happens when this isn't done...

For real ? How on earth wasn't that picked up at BC inspection ? And
what sort of brickie doesn't use ties ?

I don't think the BC inspect every house on a housing estate.
The BC fees for a housing estate are full fee for the first
house, and then only a tiny fee for each identical house.
It wasn't just BC that missed it, so did Wilson Connolly's
own inspector and the NHBC inspector, but then that really
comes as no surprise.

A brickie doesn't use ties if the builder will only employ
him if he actually lays the bricks without arguing and the
builder doesn't supply enough ties. There was a builder on
You and Yours (radio 4) some months back, and he said that
houses being built in the UK at the moment are built to the
lowest quality he's ever seen during his whole career in the
building trade.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
does anyone know of a good on-line site giving details of how to
construct cavity walls

One brick width gap.

External skin / width of brick / internal skin

Conventionally laid in rows, starting at the bottom...

It's not a bad idea to tie them together occasionally too.
A number of Wilson Connolly new home owners have discovered
what happens when this isn't done...

For real ? How on earth wasn't that picked up at BC inspection ? And
what sort of brickie doesn't use ties ?

Most on-site trades are not qualified or experieneced, only the gas side is,
because of the corgi quals.

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .

It's not a bad idea to tie them together occasionally too.
A number of Wilson Connolly new home owners have discovered
what happens when this isn't done...

what sort of brickie doesn't use ties ?

A brickie doesn't use ties if the builder will only employ
him if he actually lays the bricks without arguing and the
builder doesn't supply enough ties.

Hmm. My dad was a brickie until his back gave way and I think he would have
raised merry-hell and walked off the site if necessary. I would have
thought the shortage of good brickies nowadays would have allowed the same
to happen.


There was a builder on
You and Yours (radio 4) some months back, and he said that
houses being built in the UK at the moment are built to the
lowest quality he's ever seen during his whole career in the
building trade.

That I can unfortunately believe.

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

It's not a bad idea to tie them together occasionally too.
A number of Wilson Connolly new home owners have discovered
what happens when this isn't done...

For real ? How on earth wasn't that picked up at BC inspection ? And
what sort of brickie doesn't use ties ?

Most on-site trades are not qualified or experieneced,

Not convinced on that. A more experienced brickie will lay faster and with
less waste so should be worth the extra money.


only the gas side is, because of the corgi quals.

I think we've heard horror stories there as well.

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:42:54 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
does anyone know of a good on-line site giving details of how to
construct cavity walls

One brick width gap.

External skin / width of brick / internal skin

Conventionally laid in rows, starting at the bottom...

It's not a bad idea to tie them together occasionally too.
A number of Wilson Connolly new home owners have discovered
what happens when this isn't done...

For real ? How on earth wasn't that picked up at BC inspection ? And
what sort of brickie doesn't use ties ?

Most on-site trades are not qualified or experieneced, only the gas side is,
because of the corgi quals.


Can't be. As of April this year, all electricians are as well. After
all, your friend Mr. Prescott said they would be and that it would
save lots of lives (although perhaps Mr Mandelson told him to say
that.. you know.. working him up the back etc.)



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:42:54 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
does anyone know of a good on-line site giving details of how to
construct cavity walls

One brick width gap.

External skin / width of brick / internal skin

Conventionally laid in rows, starting at the bottom...

It's not a bad idea to tie them together occasionally too.
A number of Wilson Connolly new home owners have discovered
what happens when this isn't done...

For real ? How on earth wasn't that picked up at BC inspection ?
And
what sort of brickie doesn't use ties ?

Most on-site trades are not qualified or experienced, only the gas side
is,
because of the corgi quals.

Can't be. As of April this year,
all electricians are as well. After
all, your friend Mr. Prescott said
they would be and that it would
save lots of lives

That's right Johnny is good at saving lives. Great fella.

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

It's not a bad idea to tie them together occasionally too.
A number of Wilson Connolly new home owners have discovered
what happens when this isn't done...

For real ? How on earth wasn't that picked up at BC inspection ?
And
what sort of brickie doesn't use ties ?

Most on-site trades are not qualified or experieneced,

Not convinced on that. A more experienced
brickie will lay faster and with
less waste so should be worth the extra money.

Still, most are poorly experienced on sites. Most have "picked it up".

only the gas side is, because of the corgi quals.

I think we've heard horror stories there as well.

Far from the total dross served up by other site so-called trades

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .

It's not a bad idea to tie them together occasionally too.
A number of Wilson Connolly new home owners have discovered
what happens when this isn't done...

what sort of brickie doesn't use ties ?

A brickie doesn't use ties if the builder will only employ
him if he actually lays the bricks without arguing and the
builder doesn't supply enough ties.

Hmm. My dad was a brickie until his back gave way and I think he would
have
raised merry-hell and walked off the site if necessary. I would have
thought the shortage of good brickies nowadays would have allowed the same
to happen.

If the Brickie is from Kosovo, then matters are different. If someone sis
killed the brickie can face charges.

There was a builder on
You and Yours (radio 4) some months back, and he said that
houses being built in the UK at the moment are built to the
lowest quality he's ever seen during his whole career in the
building trade.

That I can unfortunately believe.

That is why Prescott is ramming them for more prefabbed techniques to raise
quality levels and speed. The average brick and block UK house is far too
labour intensive to erect. Far better methods are out there, but we still
put tanks in lofts in this country, so what is chance of major change in
building techniques and attitude.

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 09:30:39 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


That is why Prescott is ramming them for more prefabbed techniques to raise
quality levels and speed. The average brick and block UK house is far too
labour intensive to erect. Far better methods are out there, but we still
put tanks in lofts in this country, so what is chance of major change in
building techniques and attitude.

I expect that the answer to that lies to some extent in your comment,
"Prescott is ramming them". People don't like to be rammed.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 09:22:15 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:



Most on-site trades are not qualified or experienced, only the gas side
is,
because of the corgi quals.

Can't be. As of April this year,
all electricians are as well. After
all, your friend Mr. Prescott said
they would be and that it would
save lots of lives

That's right Johnny is good at saving lives. Great fella.

"Used to send his mother flahs and that...."



--

..andy

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The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In article ,
"Doctor Evil" writes:
That is why Prescott is ramming them for more prefabbed techniques to raise
quality levels and speed.

Prefabs in the UK have always been about price, not quality.
There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but builders
then sell them for same price as a conventionally constructed
house which has a design life of 200 years, rather than their
more typical 50 year life which should price them much less,
similar to a leasehold with 50 years left to run plus the land.
So buyers get ripped off.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
"Doctor Evil" writes:
That is why Prescott is ramming them for more prefabbed techniques to
raise
quality levels and speed.

Prefabs in the UK have always
been about price, not quality.

Not now it isn't. BTW, the original prefabs, that were made in Canada, were
very good quality. They even had a fitted kitchen with a fitted gas fridge
and instant gas water heater. Unheard of in those days. They were also
insulated, also unheard of in those days. People always commented on how
cosy they were and how cheap to run. A few are still around. many were clad
in brick and had pitched roofs fitted.

New technology has come about: SIP panels for instance. In the USA you look
at a catalogue of SIPs and pick what you like in making up your house. Some
have doors left or right hand in the panel, windows of various standard
sizes, etc. You have specify a custom panel, but usually more expensive.
So, from standard panels you make up a house which has the walls made of
structural insulation. Most don't need heating systems. Just crane them in
and the shell is up in a few days including roof. Some come with finished
walls and pipes fitted if you want. Concrete panels are available too.

The point is that a factory can come up with superior quality in ideal
conditions using the latest computer aided design and manufacturing
techniques. Have most of that built in a factory and crane most of it in,
and the speed and quality rises exponentially.

The fact is that building a house as they were built 1000 years ago, as that
is how we still do it, is totally crazy in this day and age. Also we just
don't have the quantity and quality of skills around to build houses as Noah
did. Things have moved on for the better.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 09:30:39 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


That is why Prescott is ramming them for more prefabbed techniques to
raise
quality levels and speed. The average brick and block UK house is far
too
labour intensive to erect. Far better methods are out there, but we
still
put tanks in lofts in this country, so what is chance of major change in
building techniques and attitude.

I expect that the answer to that lies to some extent in your comment,
"Prescott is ramming them". People don't like to be rammed.

They will have to be rammed, as they will not change. The government has no
option. The UK construction industry is a joke, and other countries laugh
at us.

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 10:56:53 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 09:30:39 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


That is why Prescott is ramming them for more prefabbed techniques to
raise
quality levels and speed. The average brick and block UK house is far
too
labour intensive to erect. Far better methods are out there, but we
still
put tanks in lofts in this country, so what is chance of major change in
building techniques and attitude.

I expect that the answer to that lies to some extent in your comment,
"Prescott is ramming them". People don't like to be rammed.

They will have to be rammed, as they will not change.

This assumes the need for change.

The government has no
option.

The government always has an option. Keeping out of people's affairs
would be a good one.

The UK construction industry is a joke, and other countries laugh
at us.

Documented evidence?



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 10:56:53 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 09:30:39 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


That is why Prescott is ramming them for more prefabbed techniques to
raise
quality levels and speed. The average brick and block UK house is far
too
labour intensive to erect. Far better methods are out there, but we
still
put tanks in lofts in this country, so what is chance of major change
in
building techniques and attitude.

I expect that the answer to that lies to some extent in your comment,
"Prescott is ramming them". People don't like to be rammed.

They will have to be rammed, as they will not change.

This assumes the need for change.

You are naive.

The government has no
option.

The government always has an option.
Keeping out of people's affairs
would be a good one.

Keeping out of housing and land and allowing the free market to rule, with
no more Draconian planning laws allowing people to build in open countryside
and have land not in the hands of a few mainly aristocratic people. In that
I agree with you. Get that right and the government will be involved in
housing far less.

The UK construction industry is a joke,
and other countries laugh at us.

Documented evidence?

You really don't know do you?

Mike wrote:
A brickie doesn't use ties if the builder will only employ
him if he actually lays the bricks without arguing and the
builder doesn't supply enough ties.
Hmm. My dad was a brickie until his back gave way and I think he would have
raised merry-hell and walked off the site if necessary. I would have
thought the shortage of good brickies nowadays would have allowed the same
to happen.

I read recently that one-quarter of all workers in the construction
industry[1] in London/the SE are *illegal* immigrants; they aren't in
much position to complain. And they may be being paid only 30p an hour
in any case.

Owain


[1] And in hotel/catering, too.

Andy Hall wrote:
Most on-site trades are not qualified or experieneced, only the gas side is,
because of the corgi quals.
Can't be. As of April this year, all electricians are as well. After
all, your friend Mr. Prescott said they would be and that it would
save lots of lives

Of course actually not; as a building regs application will be in for
the house there's no requirement to use qualified staff.

Perhaps that's why there's no wall-ties - the sparkies pinched them all
to save money on fuses.

(although perhaps Mr Mandelson told him to say
that.. you know.. working him up the back etc.)

A perspective on Mr Prescott I had not previously considered.

Owain

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...


The UK construction industry is a joke, and other countries laugh
at us.

Documented evidence?


The Germans have built a Lidl down the road from me in less than two
weeks**.

It isn't steel framed and wasn't prefab.

I haven't seen anyone in the UK build quite so fast.

Barratts started a show home a week earlier and still haven't got a roof on.

** It will probably take another four weeks to fit it out though.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 09:30:39 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


That is why Prescott is ramming them for more prefabbed techniques to
raise
quality levels and speed. The average brick and block UK house is far
too
labour intensive to erect. Far better methods are out there, but we
still
put tanks in lofts in this country, so what is chance of major change in
building techniques and attitude.

I expect that the answer to that lies to some extent in your comment,
"Prescott is ramming them". People don't like to be rammed.

So if they don't want to be "rammed" by Prescott (the mind boggles :-) I
would have thought there would be good brickies available for non-developer
jobs. But there aren't. Any idea where they've gone ?

"Owain" wrote in message
. ..

I read recently that one-quarter of all workers in the construction
industry[1] in London/the SE are *illegal* immigrants; they aren't in
much position to complain. And they may be being paid only 30p an hour
in any case.

Wouldn't surprise me. But I still would have thought it good practice to
throw a packet of wall ties to them with the cement and blocks.

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:18:52 GMT, "dennis@home"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .


The UK construction industry is a joke, and other countries laugh
at us.

Documented evidence?


The Germans have built a Lidl down the road from me in less than two
weeks**.

You have my deepest sympathy.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 13:19:38 +0100, Owain
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
Most on-site trades are not qualified or experieneced, only the gas side is,
because of the corgi quals.
Can't be. As of April this year, all electricians are as well. After
all, your friend Mr. Prescott said they would be and that it would
save lots of lives

Of course actually not; as a building regs application will be in for
the house there's no requirement to use qualified staff.

Perhaps that's why there's no wall-ties - the sparkies pinched them all
to save money on fuses.

(although perhaps Mr Mandelson told him to say
that.. you know.. working him up the back etc.)

A perspective on Mr Prescott I had not previously considered.


You didn't think that he was capable of independent thought, did you?



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In article ,
"Mike" writes:
So if they don't want to be "rammed" by Prescott (the mind boggles :-) I
would have thought there would be good brickies available for non-developer
jobs. But there aren't. Any idea where they've gone ?

Potential brickies have probably all gone off to fluck
a Media Studies degree at their local poly-come-uni.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
(Andrew Gabriel) writes:

Potential brickies have probably all gone off to fluck
^^^^^
flunk

a Media Studies degree at their local poly-come-uni.

The bricky I know moved away to East Anglia and spent
several years leasurely building his own house with
his wife. Actually, he had spent many years before
that teaching brickworking (and his own brickwork is
very impressive I have to say), but stopped when the
college made lots of their teaching staff redundant,
so presumably there aren't many trained brickies coming
into the trade?

--
Andrew Gabriel

On 19 Jun 2005 17:46:31 GMT,it is alleged that
(Andrew Gabriel) spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

In article ,
(Andrew Gabriel) writes:

Potential brickies have probably all gone off to fluck
^^^^^
flunk
snip

I was wondering which of the 2 possibilities that was a typo for ;-)

Both probably fit equally well...

--
This .signature has been hijacked by the Shellfish Liberation Army.
Please remain clam.

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
(Andrew Gabriel) writes:

Potential brickies have probably all gone off to fluck
^^^^^
flunk

a Media Studies degree at their local poly-come-uni.

The bricky I know moved away to East Anglia and spent
several years leasurely building his own house with
his wife. Actually, he had spent many years before
that teaching brickworking (and his own brickwork is
very impressive I have to say), but stopped when the
college made lots of their teaching staff redundant,
so presumably there aren't many trained brickies coming
into the trade?

Most pick it up and it shows.

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 08:27:41 +0000 (UTC), "Lawrence Zarb"
wrote:

does anyone know of a good on-line site giving details of how to
construct cavity walls

I guess you are asking how to build a brick wall, a cavity wall, is
just 2 walls, with a gap between. and some ties joining them together.
The two walls do not need to be of the same material, mine, for
example are stone & block.

The ties give extra strength for "wind loading", the BCO made me cut
all the ties out where the wall was not gonna get any wind (cause it
was below ground).

Rick

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

The Germans have built a Lidl down the road from me in less than two
weeks**.

You have my deepest sympathy.


Are they that bad?

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:18:52 GMT, "dennis@home"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .


The UK construction industry is a joke, and other countries laugh
at us.

Documented evidence?


The Germans have built a Lidl down the road from me in less than two
weeks**.

You have my deepest sympathy.

More Little Miiddle England petty snobery. Aldi, Netto and Lidl are all of
the same type and format, and all from three differnt countries. They pile
em hign and sell em cheap. Their goods are decent quality, with many known
brands, and just plain cheaper than the main suopermarkets.

The Continentals do the bulk of their shopping at these types of places and
go to the big names where the Lidles don't fill the gap. These three cheap
supermarkets have not realy taken off in the UK, getting better though, and
the reason was of pure petty snobbery. Why go to Tesco when these places
sell the same far cheaper? But most people here do not and petty snobbery
was the reason when research was done.