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| UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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Converting one-way light switch
Hi all,
I have a room with two ceiling lights switched on one switch. Is it difficult to convert this to a double switch? Logically, how do I modify the wiring? Antony |
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#2
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antgel wrote:
Hi all, I have a room with two ceiling lights switched on one switch. Is it difficult to convert this to a double switch? Logically, how do I modify the wiring? Antony google 2 way switch to find a pic of the citcuit, then youl see Or Maybe Ive misunderstood NT |
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#3
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"antgel" wrote in message oups.com... Hi all, I have a room with two ceiling lights switched on one switch. Is it difficult to convert this to a double switch? Logically, how do I modify the wiring? This group really is showing up the rational behind Part P in the last few days... :~( |
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#5
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Indeed I am referring to a two-gang switch. And it could very well
happen. I'm in the process of hacking my ceiling to install projector cables anyway. So you're saying that I need to run two new cables, one from the switch to each of the two lights? |
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#6
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"antgel" wrote in message
oups.com... Indeed I am referring to a two-gang switch. And it could very well happen. I'm in the process of hacking my ceiling to install projector cables anyway. So you're saying that I need to run two new cables, one from the switch to each of the two lights? What cables are in the switch already? If there is just a single cable (Containing a black or blue, red or brown and bare wire) you will need to run another one of these from the switch into the ceiling. Can you get access to the light fittings from above? Sparks... |
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#7
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Sparks wrote:
"antgel" wrote in message oups.com... Indeed I am referring to a two-gang switch. And it could very well happen. I'm in the process of hacking my ceiling to install projector cables anyway. So you're saying that I need to run two new cables, one from the switch to each of the two lights? What cables are in the switch already? If there is just a single cable (Containing a black or blue, red or brown and bare wire) you will need to run another one of these from the switch into the ceiling. Can you get access to the light fittings from above? Also, what sort of fittings are there presently - ceiling roses or something different? If you've got ceiling roses, how many cables are wired in to each one? I'd expect one to have several (call this light "A") and one to have just one cable (light "B") because B will simply be piggy-backed on to light A, so that it goes on and off at the same time as A. You need to get a cable to run from light "B" all the way down to the switch; and finally the 'piggy-back' cable connecting to light "A" needs to be wired differently in order to energise light "B" continuously rather than just when light "A" is switched on. If you don't have roses, how many cables come through the ceiling - just one for each fitting? If so, the connections will presumably be in junction boxes above the ceiling, instead, and it's not so immediately obvious which light is A and which is B. David |
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#8
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We all had to start somewhere. The fact that I'm asking shows that I
want to do it properly. I assume you were born with an encyclopaedic knowledge of electrics. |
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#9
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:::Jerry:::: wrote:
This group really is showing up the rational behind Part P in the last few days... :~( How do you figure that? I would say the *group* is providing the correct answers to this question everytime someone asks it. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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#10
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In article .com
, antgel writes We all had to start somewhere. The fact that I'm asking shows that I want to do it properly. I assume you were born with an encyclopaedic knowledge of electrics. Indeed you do, don't take it personally, a quick google on that poster's id shows a tendency towards arrogance over helpfulness in posts to this group; killfiled by me long ago. -- fred |
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#11
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"John Rumm" wrote in message ... :::Jerry:::: wrote: This group really is showing up the rational behind Part P in the last few days... :~( How do you figure that? I would say the *group* is providing the correct answers to this question everytime someone asks it. Oh yes I agree, but sometimes those question and answers are coming *after* work has started, when the person doing the work obviously doesn't have a clue to start the job - no problem with people asking how to do the job, I just wish that they would ask first and be realistic about their abilities... |
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#12
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On Sun, 08 May 2005 07:29:20 -0700, antgel wrote:
We all had to start somewhere. The fact that I'm asking shows that I want to do it properly. I assume you were born with an encyclopaedic knowledge of electrics. I bet he did his first house rewire when he was 2.... Dave |
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#13
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:::Jerry:::: wrote:
This group really is showing up the rational behind Part P in the last few days... :~( How do you figure that? I would say the *group* is providing the correct answers to this question everytime someone asks it. Oh yes I agree, but sometimes those question and answers are coming *after* work has started, when the person doing the work obviously doesn't have a clue to start the job - no problem with people asking how to do the job, I just wish that they would ask first and be realistic about their abilities... Perhaps you missed part of the thrust of my question, i.e. since what the OP is doing is outside the scope of part P anyway (i.e. a minor work) how is it supposed to help? Part P makes the law into an ass whichever way you look at it. You do raise an intersting question however: How are we to be "realistic" about our abilities without knowing where the limits of those lay? How do we test where those are without actually attempting to do something and reaching them? Surely reaching the limits of ones abilities is not a significant event in itself, what we do next however is significant (e.g. seek help, give up, press on regardless). In an ideal world we could research every step of a job from start to finish before starting, but the real world has a habit of not being so deterministic. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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#14
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"John Rumm" wrote in message
news:427e63ba$0$2388$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp- Oh yes I agree, but sometimes those question and answers are coming *after* work has started, when the person doing the work obviously doesn't have a clue to start the job - no problem with people asking how to do the job, I just wish that they would ask first and be realistic about their abilities... Perhaps you missed part of the thrust of my question, i.e. since what the OP is doing is outside the scope of part P anyway (i.e. a minor work) how is it supposed to help? Part P makes the law into an ass whichever way you look at it. Enough already with the "past his abilities" stuff! ;P I'm not entirely clueless and do understand basic safety with electricity. I also know a fair bit about electricity at a slightly lower level from an engineering degree many years ago. From that, I know I'm not likely to set the neighbourhood alight by connecting a cable in a lighting circuit to see what happens. I'm also not dumb enough to leave something in place if I don't think it's right. Thus my original post. The only reason I've run into difficulties here is because of impractical house design and the impossibility of doing something right without destroying my kitchen  a |
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#15
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"dave stanton" wrote in message news  On Sun, 08 May 2005 07:29:20 -0700, antgel wrote: We all had to start somewhere. The fact that I'm asking shows that I want to do it properly. I assume you were born with an encyclopaedic knowledge of electrics. I bet he did his first house rewire when he was 2.... Five actually, I could get my hands were my father couldn't get his own..... But I don't call my self an expert by any means, although I've done quite a bit of both domestic and 'industrial' [1] 3ph wiring - the one thing I always do if I don't understand things is ask first before I risk making mistakes that could prove fatal to others. 20 odd tears ago in a voluntary organisation. |
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#16
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"John Rumm" wrote in message ... :::Jerry:::: wrote: This group really is showing up the rational behind Part P in the last few days... :~( How do you figure that? I would say the *group* is providing the correct answers to this question everytime someone asks it. Oh yes I agree, but sometimes those question and answers are coming *after* work has started, when the person doing the work obviously doesn't have a clue to start the job - no problem with people asking how to do the job, I just wish that they would ask first and be realistic about their abilities... Perhaps you missed part of the thrust of my question, i.e. since what the OP is doing is outside the scope of part P anyway (i.e. a minor work) how is it supposed to help? Part P makes the law into an ass whichever way you look at it. Isn't this work in a kitchen area and thus comes under Part P ? You do raise an intersting question however: How are we to be "realistic" about our abilities without knowing where the limits of those lay? How do we test where those are without actually attempting to do something and reaching them? Surely reaching the limits of ones abilities is not a significant event in itself, what we do next however is significant (e.g. seek help, give up, press on regardless). In an ideal world we could research every step of a job from start to finish before starting, but the real world has a habit of not being so deterministic. There does seem to be some confusion about basic feeds, switched feeds and (neutral) returns though, if someone can't get to grips with what needs to be present already were they wish to extend the circuit from that to me suggests that they need to learn considerably more before they start altering existing wiring. |
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#17
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":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net... There does seem to be some confusion about basic feeds, switched feeds and (neutral) returns though, if someone can't get to grips with what needs to be present already were they wish to extend the circuit from that to me suggests that they need to learn considerably more before they start altering existing wiring. Again, this came around out of trying to add a second light where one was needed while that side of the ceiling was being re-decorated. Unfortunately the other side wasn't and I really don't want to destroy it. There is no part of the lighting loop available to me at all to take feed from for this switch. I therefore dangled the cable down, connected it up, tried it ... and it didn't work. I disconnected it and posted here to make sense of what I'd done and why it didn't work - which I now perfectly understand. My only option now really is to take a fused feed from the ring main junction box by my boiler, which I can reasonably well conceal up to the switch after digging myself a little trench in the plaster ... which I fortunately haven't papered over yet in that area. a |
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#18
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"al" wrote in message . uk... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message eenews.net... There does seem to be some confusion about basic feeds, switched feeds and (neutral) returns though, if someone can't get to grips with what needs to be present already were they wish to extend the circuit from that to me suggests that they need to learn considerably more before they start altering existing wiring. Again, this came around out of trying to add a second light where one was needed while that side of the ceiling was being re-decorated. Unfortunately the other side wasn't and I really don't want to destroy it. There is no part of the lighting loop available to me at all to take feed from for this switch. I therefore dangled the cable down, connected it up, tried it ... That is my point, you tried something that basic knowledge said could not be done, you shouldn't have even tried it - what if this 'exercise' had not be as harmless as you thought or indeed it turned out to be ? and it didn't work. I disconnected it and posted here to make sense of what I'd done and why it didn't work - which I now perfectly understand. My point is, you should have posted here first surely, but then basic circuit knowledge should have told you all you need to know... My only option now really is to take a fused feed from the ring main junction box by my boiler, which I can reasonably well conceal up to the switch after digging myself a little trench in the plaster ... which I fortunately haven't papered over yet in that area. Or consider doing the job correctly, irrespective of what need redecorating... |
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#19
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"al" wrote in message . uk... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message eenews.net... There does seem to be some confusion about basic feeds, switched feeds and (neutral) returns though, if someone can't get to grips with what needs to be present already were they wish to extend the circuit from that to me suggests that they need to learn considerably more before they start altering existing wiring. Again, this came around out of trying to add a second light where one was needed while that side of the ceiling was being re-decorated. Unfortunately the other side wasn't and I really don't want to destroy it. There is no part of the lighting loop available to me at all to take feed from for this switch. I therefore dangled the cable down, connected it up, tried it ... That is my point, you tried something that basic knowledge said could not be done, you shouldn't have even tried it - what if this 'exercise' had not be as harmless as you thought or indeed it turned out to be ? and it didn't work. I disconnected it and posted here to make sense of what I'd done and why it didn't work - which I now perfectly understand. My point is, you should have posted here first surely, but then basic circuit knowledge should have told you all you need to know... My only option now really is to take a fused feed from the ring main junction box by my boiler, which I can reasonably well conceal up to the switch after digging myself a little trench in the plaster ... which I fortunately haven't papered over yet in that area. Or consider doing the job correctly, irrespective of what need redecorating... |
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#20
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":::Jerry::::" wrote in message eenews.net... "al" wrote in message . uk... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message eenews.net... There does seem to be some confusion about basic feeds, switched feeds and (neutral) returns though, if someone can't get to grips with what needs to be present already were they wish to extend the circuit from that to me suggests that they need to learn considerably more before they start altering existing wiring. Again, this came around out of trying to add a second light where one was needed while that side of the ceiling was being re-decorated. Unfortunately the other side wasn't and I really don't want to destroy it. There is no part of the lighting loop available to me at all to take feed from for this switch. I therefore dangled the cable down, connected it up, tried it ... That is my point, you tried something that basic knowledge said could not be done, you shouldn't have even tried it - what if this 'exercise' had not be as harmless as you thought or indeed it turned out to be ? and it didn't work. I disconnected it and posted here to make sense of what I'd done and why it didn't work - which I now perfectly understand. My point is, you should have posted here first surely, but then basic circuit knowledge should have told you all you need to know... My only option now really is to take a fused feed from the ring main junction box by my boiler, which I can reasonably well conceal up to the switch after digging myself a little trench in the plaster ... which I fortunately haven't papered over yet in that area. Or consider doing the job correctly, irrespective of what need redecorating... So glad you said it twice. I missed it first time. :-) |
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#21
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":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
news.net... That is my point, you tried something that basic knowledge said could not be done, you shouldn't have even tried it - what if this 'exercise' had not be as harmless as you thought or indeed it turned out to be ? Not really ... I know enough not to be stupid. and it didn't work. I disconnected it and posted here to make sense of what I'd done and why it didn't work - which I now perfectly understand. My point is, you should have posted here first surely, but then basic circuit knowledge should have told you all you need to know... There's enough ppl who flame for not trying the basics first or Googling a bit. Like I said, there was not going to be a fire as a result of trying what I was proposing, so there was little harm in trying. Or consider doing the job correctly, irrespective of what need redecorating... Not a luxury I have with a baby on the way in 6 weeks and a sh*t-load of other stuff needing urgent attention!! a |
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#22
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"al" wrote in message . uk... ":::Jerry::::" wrote in message news.net... That is my point, you tried something that basic knowledge said could not be done, you shouldn't have even tried it - what if this 'exercise' had not be as harmless as you thought or indeed it turned out to be ? Not really ... I know enough not to be stupid. Well, that is a mater of opinion - bad drivers never consider themselves as bad drivers... and it didn't work. I disconnected it and posted here to make sense of what I'd done and why it didn't work - which I now perfectly understand. My point is, you should have posted here first surely, but then basic circuit knowledge should have told you all you need to know... There's enough ppl who flame for not trying the basics first or Googling a bit. Like I said, there was not going to be a fire as a result of trying what I was proposing, so there was little harm in trying. How did you know this, yet you didn't know that what you were doing would not work, sorry but you are adding two plus two and coming up with five as the answer IMO... Or consider doing the job correctly, irrespective of what need redecorating... Not a luxury I have with a baby on the way in 6 weeks and a sh*t-load of other stuff needing urgent attention!! Well at least you know how to do something right, or was that also an accident waiting to happen ?!... |
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#23
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:::Jerry:::: wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message Perhaps you missed part of the thrust of my question, i.e. since what the OP is doing is outside the scope of part P anyway (i.e. a minor work) how is it supposed to help? Part P makes the law into an ass whichever way you look at it. Isn't this work in a kitchen area and thus comes under Part P ? No. I was the OP and my post about converting a light switch to two-gang has nothing to do with a kitchen. al replied to the wrong thread, making all of the subsequent replies very confusing. Antony |
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#24
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:::Jerry:::: wrote:
...ask first before I risk making mistakes that could prove fatal to others. That's very considerate. I'd encourage you to ask before making mistakes which could prove fatal to yourself too. 20 odd tears ago in a voluntary organisation. :-) Owain |
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#25
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:::Jerry:::: wrote:
the OP is doing is outside the scope of part P anyway (i.e. a minor work) how is it supposed to help? Part P makes the law into an ass whichever way you look at it. Isn't this work in a kitchen area and thus comes under Part P ? You are right, I missed that. Still, who cares? -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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#26
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al wrote:
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message There's enough ppl who flame for not trying the basics first or Googling a bit. Like I said, there was not going to be a fire as a result of trying what I was proposing, so there was little harm in trying. I agree with Al on this one. As long as you know not to connect L or N to the E, on a lighting circuit you could pretty well connect the other wires up at random and not cause a danger. A handy feature of lighting circuits for newbies. Or consider doing the job correctly, irrespective of what need redecorating... Not a luxury I have with a baby on the way in 6 weeks and a sh*t-load of other stuff needing urgent attention!! Reality decides the day. NT |
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#27
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"John Rumm" wrote in message ... :::Jerry:::: wrote: the OP is doing is outside the scope of part P anyway (i.e. a minor work) how is it supposed to help? Part P makes the law into an ass whichever way you look at it. Isn't this work in a kitchen area and thus comes under Part P ? You are right, I missed that. Still, who cares? The poor bod who comes along next - which is the only real reason there are set colours for conductors etc., I know what I've done, you know what you've done but neither of use know what each other has done IYSWIM. |
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#28
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:::Jerry:::: wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message .. Isn't this work in a kitchen area and thus comes under Part P ? You are right, I missed that. Still, who cares? The poor bod who comes along next - which is the only real reason there are set colours for conductors etc., I know what I've done, you know what you've done but neither of use know what each other has done IYSWIM. I know what I've done... but often forget it after a while. I've been right puzzled by former work on rare occasions. There would be many accidents if we didnt use standard conductor colour codes, but not using part p wouldnt cause any such increase. NT |
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#29
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:::Jerry:::: wrote:
Isn't this work in a kitchen area and thus comes under Part P ? You are right, I missed that. In fact it was not the OP who added "kitchen" to the question... so outside of part taking the Pee... Still, who cares? The poor bod who comes along next - which is the only real reason there are set colours for conductors etc., I can think of a good few reasons for having set colours other than that! I know what I've done, you know what you've done but neither of use know what each other has done IYSWIM. Well if we both do it to BS7671 then there is not going to be a problem is there? -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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#30
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"antgel" wrote in message
... No. I was the OP and my post about converting a light switch to two-gang has nothing to do with a kitchen. al replied to the wrong thread, making all of the subsequent replies very confusing. I've just noticed that .... *scratches head* ... and to think ... Jerry might love me after all ;o) a |
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