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| UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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Tree felling problem/query
We have been steadily felling the Leylandii along the front of our
property over the last couple of years. So far we've dropped all of them just about where we intended with no drama or accidents, this includes some really big ones with 15" or 18" trunks. The next in the sequence presents a bit of a problem though. It's a pretty big tree but the trunk splits into three or four main parts right from ground level and the parallel 'trunks' remain close together up to a considerable height. How should one fell this? It's not possible to do the standard "cut a wedge out on the side you want it to fall and then cut to make a 'hinge' from the other side" as there are separate trunks to which one only has chainsaw access at one side. At any level one can reach from the ground there is no space at all between the trunks, not even a gap to see through. I suppose it might be possible to cut a wedge out of each trunk and then simply use a rope and our tractor to pull it over without bothering with cutting from the other side, is this a reasonable approach? In fact if the first one is done like this it might be possible to do the others more conventionally. -- Chris Green |
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#3
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#4
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Rick, please excuse me but I was alarmed at reading the suggestion to
pull over this tree with a tractor. A tractor can be used quite safely to pull trees over but there are a few ground rules to be aware of before attempts are made. I was employed as an agricultural engineer for many years. IF anyone uses a tractor for any form of towing job please do not attempt pulling something from a height, it can destabilise the tractor and literally flip it over, likewise do not attempt to attach ropes above the drawbar height, the tractor can in some circumstances literally climb over itself backwards. The rope length as you state is critical not only as regards the tractor, it should be fitted with a safety frame anyway nowadays, but also it must be a straight pull rather than on the skew. Regards Peter Fagg |
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#6
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Rick wrote:
On 27 Apr 2005 12:30:06 GMT, wrote: The next in the sequence presents a bit of a problem though. It's a pretty big tree but the trunk splits into three or four main parts right from ground level and the parallel 'trunks' remain close together up to a considerable height. How should one fell this? It's not possible to do the standard "cut a wedge out on the side you want it to fall and then cut to make a 'hinge' from the other side" as there are separate trunks to which one only has chainsaw access at one side. At any level one can reach from the ground there is no space at all between the trunks, not even a gap to see through. I suppose it might be possible to cut a wedge out of each trunk and then simply use a rope and our tractor to pull it over without bothering with cutting from the other side, is this a reasonable approach? In fact if the first one is done like this it might be possible to do the others more conventionally. cut them out one at a time, like 4 seperate trees. use a good rope to tug them down, and get them to fall in the right place. I don't see how I can do that, certainly not with the first trunk. How do I cut it down with access only to one side of the trunk? I re-read, you have a tractor, just tug them with the tractor, as you cut away at the other side of the trunk. Just watch the rope length so it does not land on the tractor. That's the whole point, there's no way I can "cut away at the other side of the trunk", the other side of the trunk is in the middle with three other trunks preventing access to it. -- Chris Green |
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#7
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Peter Charles Fagg wrote:
Rick, please excuse me but I was alarmed at reading the suggestion to pull over this tree with a tractor. A tractor can be used quite safely to pull trees over but there are a few ground rules to be aware of before attempts are made. Most of which are common sense but that doesn't mean that people observe them. I was employed as an agricultural engineer for many years. IF anyone uses a tractor for any form of towing job please do not attempt pulling something from a height, it can destabilise the tractor and literally flip it over, likewise do not attempt to attach ropes above the drawbar height, the tractor can in some circumstances literally climb over itself backwards. When using our tractor for 'guiding' trees that we're felling I usually do it in reverse with the rope attached to the bracket at the front which can carry weights or a snow plough, that's down at the front axle level. Doing it in reverse means that the person driving the tractor can observe the tree without effort. It's a 4WD tractor so traction is rarely a problem. The rope length as you state is critical not only as regards the tractor, it should be fitted with a safety frame anyway nowadays, but also it must be a straight pull rather than on the skew. Again common sense but still a good thing to point out. One other thing to be aware of is the amount of energy stored in a stretched rope. If it breaks or the thing it's attached to breaks then that energy has to go somewhere and mostly will tend to throw things at the tractor with considerable force. -- Chris Green |
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#8
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In article , says...
Rick wrote: On 27 Apr 2005 12:30:06 GMT, wrote: The next in the sequence presents a bit of a problem though. It's a pretty big tree but the trunk splits into three or four main parts right from ground level and the parallel 'trunks' remain close together up to a considerable height. How should one fell this? It's not possible to do the standard "cut a wedge out on the side you want it to fall and then cut to make a 'hinge' from the other side" as there are separate trunks to which one only has chainsaw access at one side. At any level one can reach from the ground there is no space at all between the trunks, not even a gap to see through. I suppose it might be possible to cut a wedge out of each trunk and then simply use a rope and our tractor to pull it over without bothering with cutting from the other side, is this a reasonable approach? In fact if the first one is done like this it might be possible to do the others more conventionally. cut them out one at a time, like 4 seperate trees. use a good rope to tug them down, and get them to fall in the right place. I don't see how I can do that, certainly not with the first trunk. How do I cut it down with access only to one side of the trunk? I re-read, you have a tractor, just tug them with the tractor, as you cut away at the other side of the trunk. Just watch the rope length so it does not land on the tractor. That's the whole point, there's no way I can "cut away at the other side of the trunk", the other side of the trunk is in the middle with three other trunks preventing access to it. It strikes me that if you cut through the first one it can only fall the one way given that the others are in the way. That should give a little elbow room to cope with the remaining trunks. -- Paul Mc Cann |
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#9
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In article , "Paul Mc
Cann" says... In article , says... Rick wrote: On 27 Apr 2005 12:30:06 GMT, wrote: The next in the sequence presents a bit of a problem though. It's a pretty big tree but the trunk splits into three or four main parts right from ground level and the parallel 'trunks' remain close together up to a considerable height. How should one fell this? It's not possible to do the standard "cut a wedge out on the side you want it to fall and then cut to make a 'hinge' from the other side" as there are separate trunks to which one only has chainsaw access at one side. At any level one can reach from the ground there is no space at all between the trunks, not even a gap to see through. I suppose it might be possible to cut a wedge out of each trunk and then simply use a rope and our tractor to pull it over without bothering with cutting from the other side, is this a reasonable approach? In fact if the first one is done like this it might be possible to do the others more conventionally. cut them out one at a time, like 4 seperate trees. use a good rope to tug them down, and get them to fall in the right place. I don't see how I can do that, certainly not with the first trunk. How do I cut it down with access only to one side of the trunk? I re-read, you have a tractor, just tug them with the tractor, as you cut away at the other side of the trunk. Just watch the rope length so it does not land on the tractor. That's the whole point, there's no way I can "cut away at the other side of the trunk", the other side of the trunk is in the middle with three other trunks preventing access to it. It strikes me that if you cut through the first one it can only fall the one way given that the others are in the way. That should give a little elbow room to cope with the remaining trunks. I suspect they're quite thoroughly entwined, so the cut trunk will just hang there. |
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#10
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In article ,
says... In article , "Paul Mc Cann" says... In article , says... Rick wrote: On 27 Apr 2005 12:30:06 GMT, wrote: The next in the sequence presents a bit of a problem though. It's a pretty big tree but the trunk splits into three or four main parts right from ground level and the parallel 'trunks' remain close together up to a considerable height. How should one fell this? It's not possible to do the standard "cut a wedge out on the side you want it to fall and then cut to make a 'hinge' from the other side" as there are separate trunks to which one only has chainsaw access at one side. At any level one can reach from the ground there is no space at all between the trunks, not even a gap to see through. I suppose it might be possible to cut a wedge out of each trunk and then simply use a rope and our tractor to pull it over without bothering with cutting from the other side, is this a reasonable approach? In fact if the first one is done like this it might be possible to do the others more conventionally. cut them out one at a time, like 4 seperate trees. use a good rope to tug them down, and get them to fall in the right place. I don't see how I can do that, certainly not with the first trunk. How do I cut it down with access only to one side of the trunk? I re-read, you have a tractor, just tug them with the tractor, as you cut away at the other side of the trunk. Just watch the rope length so it does not land on the tractor. That's the whole point, there's no way I can "cut away at the other side of the trunk", the other side of the trunk is in the middle with three other trunks preventing access to it. It strikes me that if you cut through the first one it can only fall the one way given that the others are in the way. That should give a little elbow room to cope with the remaining trunks. I suspect they're quite thoroughly entwined, so the cut trunk will just hang there. Well then you could just cut off 12" at the bottom which would allow some scope to notch one of the remainder. At the very least this action would have the same effect as notching on this side. (i.e.) pre-dispose the others to fall in that direction -- Paul Mc Cann |
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#11
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Paul Mc Cann wrote:
I re-read, you have a tractor, just tug them with the tractor, as you cut away at the other side of the trunk. Just watch the rope length so it does not land on the tractor. That's the whole point, there's no way I can "cut away at the other side of the trunk", the other side of the trunk is in the middle with three other trunks preventing access to it. It strikes me that if you cut through the first one it can only fall the one way given that the others are in the way. That should give a little elbow room to cope with the remaining trunks. Yes, however there is the minor problem that the chain saw will be pinched in the cut long before the tree falls. -- Chris Green |
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#12
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Rob Morley wrote:
That's the whole point, there's no way I can "cut away at the other side of the trunk", the other side of the trunk is in the middle with three other trunks preventing access to it. It strikes me that if you cut through the first one it can only fall the one way given that the others are in the way. That should give a little elbow room to cope with the remaining trunks. I suspect they're quite thoroughly entwined, so the cut trunk will just hang there. Actually the first one I need to cut, the one on the side where I want them all to drop isn't all that entangled and would probably drop away from the rest if I could cut through it. However I don't really see how I can cut it given that if I start cutting on the only side I can get at the saw will be pinched and stuck long before the trunk falls. -- Chris Green |
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#13
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Paul Mc Cann wrote:
It strikes me that if you cut through the first one it can only fall the one way given that the others are in the way. That should give a little elbow room to cope with the remaining trunks. I suspect they're quite thoroughly entwined, so the cut trunk will just hang there. Well then you could just cut off 12" at the bottom which would allow some scope to notch one of the remainder. At the very least this action would have the same effect as notching on this side. (i.e.) pre-dispose the others to fall in that direction Notching does two things:- It will tend to help make the tree fall in the desired direction. It allows one to cut from the other side so that a 'hinge' is formed which will allow the tree to be dropped accurately. While cutting right through the first trunk will tend to have the same effect as the first of the above points it won't do the second at all. Since I would like to drop this tree quite accurately (to avoid damaging trees we want to keep) the 'hinge' is quite important. -- Chris Green |
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#14
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#15
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Howard Neil wrote:
wrote: Actually the first one I need to cut, the one on the side where I want them all to drop isn't all that entangled and would probably drop away from the rest if I could cut through it. However I don't really see how I can cut it given that if I start cutting on the only side I can get at the saw will be pinched and stuck long before the trunk falls. Do you know how to make a plunge cut? If so, notch on the side away from the other trunks, then plunge cut to make the felling cut (the way you would if felling a tree leaning at an acute angle). If you don't know how to make a plunge cut, find someone to show you how. It is simple and safe when done correctly but potentially dangerous if you do it wrong. I'd been wondering if this might be a way to do it, it's certainly the most sensible suggestion so far. I've done what are effectively plunge cuts before but with nice static horizontal logs. I'll read up on it and see if it sounds a safe option to try. -- Chris Green |
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#16
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wrote: Paul Mc Cann wrote: I re-read, you have a tractor, just tug them with the tractor, as you cut away at the other side of the trunk. Just watch the rope length so it does not land on the tractor. That's the whole point, there's no way I can "cut away at the other side of the trunk", the other side of the trunk is in the middle with three other trunks preventing access to it. It strikes me that if you cut through the first one it can only fall the one way given that the others are in the way. That should give a little elbow room to cope with the remaining trunks. Yes, however there is the minor problem that the chain saw will be pinched in the cut long before the tree falls. -- Chris Green So get an axe and do this first one the old fashioned way! MBQ |
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#17
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wrote:
Howard Neil wrote: wrote: Actually the first one I need to cut, the one on the side where I want them all to drop isn't all that entangled and would probably drop away from the rest if I could cut through it. However I don't really see how I can cut it given that if I start cutting on the only side I can get at the saw will be pinched and stuck long before the trunk falls. Do you know how to make a plunge cut? If so, notch on the side away from the other trunks, then plunge cut to make the felling cut (the way you would if felling a tree leaning at an acute angle). If you don't know how to make a plunge cut, find someone to show you how. It is simple and safe when done correctly but potentially dangerous if you do it wrong. I'd been wondering if this might be a way to do it, it's certainly the most sensible suggestion so far. I've done what are effectively plunge cuts before but with nice static horizontal logs. I'll read up on it and see if it sounds a safe option to try. Just make sure that you start the cut with the bottom part of the nose. Once the cut is deep enough, the tree itself will support the saw and prevent kick-back. I would suggest that it is easier in a standing tree because it is much more stable than a log and will resist any kick-back better. The technique is shown he- http://international.husqvarna.com/node1470.asp and on pages 21 and 22 of the Stihl manual which can be downloaded in pdf form from:- http://www.stihl.co.uk/html/default_...egory=chainsaw -- Howard Neil |
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#19
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Howard Neil wrote:
Do you know how to make a plunge cut? If so, notch on the side away from the other trunks, then plunge cut to make the felling cut (the way you would if felling a tree leaning at an acute angle). If you don't know how to make a plunge cut, find someone to show you how. It is simple and safe when done correctly but potentially dangerous if you do it wrong. I'd been wondering if this might be a way to do it, it's certainly the most sensible suggestion so far. I've done what are effectively plunge cuts before but with nice static horizontal logs. I'll read up on it and see if it sounds a safe option to try. Just make sure that you start the cut with the bottom part of the nose. Once the cut is deep enough, the tree itself will support the saw and prevent kick-back. I would suggest that it is easier in a standing tree because it is much more stable than a log and will resist any kick-back better. The technique is shown he- http://international.husqvarna.com/node1470.asp and on pages 21 and 22 of the Stihl manual which can be downloaded in pdf form from:- http://www.stihl.co.uk/html/default_...egory=chainsaw Thanks for the links. I'll have to adapt what they say a bit because the trunk is relatively small and I don't have access all around it of course. However the basic way of starting a plunge cut should get me to where I want to be. -- Chris Green |
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#22
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Hi Chris
Could you get the blade of a reciprocating saw in? The green woodcutting blades are about 12" long so if you came in from each side it might work? Dave |
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#23
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Paul Mc Cann wrote:
One doesn't actually form a hinge when dropping a tree. The notch is cut in one side which pre-disposes the tree to fall in that direction. When one has cut sufficiently through from the other side. the hinge is formed by the tree falling towards the space vacated by the wedge. Hmmm, the hinge is formed by the bit you don't cut right through. Removing a section of the first trunk will have a similar effect when cutting the remaining trunks. The weakness caused by the section removed will cause the cluster to fall to that side, thus forming the hinge. Everything of course is dependant on the actual circumstances. Without pictures it is well nigh impossible to give proper assistance On closer inspection I decided that very low down the trunks were actually merged into one trunk so I went for conventional felling on that basis. If you have no experience of doing this then perhaps you should start with something easier. What you wish to do really is not that complicated in the right hands. I have started with easier trees, this is about the tenth (or more) big Leylandii we have felled. As I said above I felled it as a single trunk in the end. I cut the notch (not perfectly looking at the trunk afterwards) and then the felling cut until there was a bit more wood left than I would normally leave. I then retreated to a safe distance and got my assistant (wife) to pull a little bit harder on the guiding rope with the tractor. Result - perfection! The tree dropped just about exactly where we intended it to, it had to be pretty accurate to miss trees we want to preserve on either side. The bottom of the trunk remained resting on the stump after felling. Reading through this thread I really think you would be advised to get a third party to deal with it. The trees probably have to be taken down in sections, which is always recommended anyway. Leylandii would be difficult to drop in sections, the limbs often fall vertically when you cut them which is OK for smallish bits at the bottom but would be difficult if you're up the tree. By the way I measured the tree after felling, the trunk was 18" in diameter where I cut it and the tree was just over 50ft high. We have one other just about as big to fell and lots of smaller ones too. -- Chris Green |
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#25
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Paul Mc Cann wrote:
In article , says... snip Leylandii would be difficult to drop in sections, the limbs often fall vertically most things do fall vertically, gravity you know ;-) True, but you know what I mean! :-) -- Chris Green |
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#26
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Following on from the tractor pull idea, I have had surprising success
with a long rope tied to the highest but strong part of tree for maximum leverage and a Volvo estate and tow bar. Of course you do need space to pull in the right direction. Start with some gentle tugs and dig up the ground on the opposite side of pull to expose roots. When root is pulled up near the surface chop with axe. Proceed as each root is exposed. No chain saw needed !!! |
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