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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Transparent Aluminum?
Bullet resistant too... great for sunglasses sold on eBay.
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123012131 Air Force testing new transparent armor by Laura Lundin Air Force Research Laboratory Public Affairs 10/17/2005 - WRIGHT-PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE, Ohio (AFPN) -- Engineers here are testing a new kind of transparent armor -- stronger and lighter than traditional materials -- that could stop armor-piercing weapons from penetrating vehicle windows. The Air Force Research Laboratory's materials and manufacturing directorate is testing aluminum oxynitride -- ALONtm -- as a replacement for the traditional multi-layered glass transparencies now used in existing ground and air armored vehicles. The test is being done in conjunction with the Army Research Laboratory at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, Md., and University of Dayton Research Institute, Ohio. ALONtm is a ceramic compound with a high compressive strength and durability. When polished, it is the premier transparent armor for use in armored vehicles, said. 1st Lt. Joseph La Monica, transparent armor sub-direction lead "The substance itself is light years ahead of glass," he said, adding that it offers "higher performance and lighter weight." Traditional transparent armor is thick layers of bonded glass. The new armor combines the transparent ALONtm piece as a strike plate, a middle section of glass and a polymer backing. Each layer is visibly thinner than the traditional layers. ALONtm is virtually scratch resistant, offers substantial impact resistance, and provides better durability and protection against armor piercing threats, at roughly half the weight and half the thickness of traditional glass transparent armor, said the lieutenant. In a June 2004demonstration, an ALONtm test pieces held up to both a ..30 caliber Russian M-44 sniper rifle and a .50 caliber Browning Sniper Rifle with armor piercing bullets. While the bullets pierced the glass samples, the armor withstood the impact with no penetration. In extensive testing, ALONtm has performed well against multiple hits of .30 caliber armor piercing rounds -- typical of anti-aircraft fire, Lieutenant La Monica said. Tests focusing on multiple hits from .50 caliber rounds and improvised explosive devices are in the works. The lieutenant is optimistic about the results because the physical properties and design of the material are intended to stop higher level threats. "The higher the threat, the more savings you're going to get," he said. "With glass, to get the protection against higher threats, you have to keep building layers upon layers. But with ALONtm, the material only needs to be increased a few millimeters." This ability to add the needed protection with only a small amount of material is very advantageous, said Ron Hoffman, an investigator at University of Dayton Research Institute. "When looking at higher level threats, you want the protection, not the weight," Mr. Hoffman said. "Achieving protection at lighter weights will allow the armor to be more easily integrated into vehicles." Mr. Hoffman also pointed out the benefit of durability with ALONtm. "Eventually, with a conventional glass surface, degradation takes place and results in a loss of transparency," Mr. Hoffman said. "Things such as sand have little or no impact on ALONtm, and it probably has a life expectancy many times that of glass." The scratch-resistant quality will greatly increase the transparency of the armor, giving military members more visual awareness on the battlefield. "It all comes down to survivability and being able to see what's out there and to make decisions while having the added protection," Mr. Hoffman said. The Army is looking to use the new armor as windows in ground vehicles, like the Humvee, Lieutenant La Monica said. The Air Force is exploring its use for "in-flight protective transparencies for low, slow-flying aircraft. These include the C-130 Hercules, C-17 Globemaster III, A-10 Thunderbolt II and helicopters. While some see the possibilities of this material as limitless, manufacturability, size and cost are issues the lab is dealing with before the armor can transition to the field, the lieutenant said. "Traditional transparent armor costs a little over $3 per square inch. The ALONtm Transparent Armor cost is $10 to $15 per square inch," Lieutenant La Monica said. "The difficulties arise with heating and polishing processes, which lead to higher costs. But we are looking at more cost effective alternatives." Lieutenant La Monica said experimenting with the polishing process has proven beneficial. "We found that by polishing it a certain way, we increased the strength of the material by two-fold," he said. Currently, size is also limited because equipment needed to heat larger pieces is expensive. To help lower costs, the lieutenant said researchers are looking at design variations that use smaller pieces of the armor tiled together to form larger windows. Lowering cost by using a commercial grade material is also an option, and the results have been promising. "So far, the difference between the lower-grade material and higher purity in ballistic tests is minimal," he said. Lieutenant La Monica said once the material can be manufactured in large quantities to meet the military's needs, and the cost brought down, the durability and strength of ALONtm will prove beneficial to the warfighter. "It might cost more in the beginning, but it is going to cost less in the long run because you are going to have to replace it less," he said. (Courtesy of Air Force Materiel Command News Service) I'm wondering how long before this stuff is outsourced to china and then the cheaper product used in vests and limos. |
#2
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Transparent Aluminum?
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 04:52:58 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
granpaw quickly quoth: Bullet resistant too... great for sunglasses sold on eBay. http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123012131 Air Force testing new transparent armor by Laura Lundin Air Force Research Laboratory Public Affairs 10/17/2005 - WRIGHT-PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE, Ohio (AFPN) -- Engineers here are testing a new kind of transparent armor -- stronger and lighter than traditional materials -- that could stop armor-piercing weapons from penetrating vehicle windows. The Air Force Research Laboratory's materials and manufacturing directorate is testing aluminum oxynitride -- ALONtm -- as a replacement for the traditional multi-layered glass transparencies now used in existing ground and air armored vehicles. Scotty is rolling over in his grave at this revelation of his Transparent Aluminum for non-whale-retrieval use. ----------------------------------------------- I'll apologize for offending someone...right after they apologize for being easily offended. ----------------------------------------------- http://www.diversify.com Inoffensive Web Design |
#3
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Transparent Aluminum?
Larry Jaques wrote:
Scotty is rolling over in his grave at this revelation of his Transparent Aluminum for non-whale-retrieval use. Larry, I don't recognize the reference. Please elucidate. Use e-mail if you think it appropiate. :-) ...lew... |
#4
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Transparent Aluminum?
"Lew Hartswick" wrote in message
link.net... Larry Jaques wrote: Scotty is rolling over in his grave at this revelation of his Transparent Aluminum for non-whale-retrieval use. Larry, I don't recognize the reference. Please elucidate. As in Beam Me Up Scotty? http://www.allscifi.com/Topics/Info_3489.asp "In the process Scotty gives the formula for transparent aluminum, Chekov gets hurt and Kirk uncharacteristically passes on a chance at romance with Gillian." Tim -- Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk. Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms |
#5
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Transparent Aluminum?
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:46:45 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Lew
Hartswick quickly quoth: Larry Jaques wrote: Scotty is rolling over in his grave at this revelation of his Transparent Aluminum for non-whale-retrieval use. Larry, I don't recognize the reference. Please elucidate. Engineer Scott on the Enterprise in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. They gave the secret to a plexiglass manufacturer so they could retrofit a Klingon Bird of Prey to carry enough seawater + a whale back to the future to save the Earth from a planet-eating ship which spoke "whale". Just watch the movie. It was one of their better ones with lots of self-deprecating humor and Catherine Hicks in her best and most babelicious years. ----------------------------------------------- I'll apologize for offending someone...right after they apologize for being easily offended. ----------------------------------------------- http://www.diversify.com Inoffensive Web Design |
#6
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Transparent Aluminum?
In article ,
granpaw wrote: Mr. Hoffman also pointed out the benefit of durability with ALONtm. "Eventually, with a conventional glass surface, degradation takes place and results in a loss of transparency," Mr. Hoffman said. "Things such as sand have little or no impact on ALONtm, and it probably has a life expectancy many times that of glass." The scratch-resistant quality will greatly increase the transparency of the armor, giving military members more visual awareness on the battlefield. I'm wondering how long before this stuff is outsourced to china and then the cheaper product used in vests and limos. The part that grabs my attention (as a wearer of corrective lenses not in contact with the eyeball) is that whole "scratch resistance" thing... I'm forever cussing at the cost involved in replacing a set of glasses due to the "fog" of scratches that sooner or later collect on my lenses, regardless of how carefully I handle them. If this stuff can be worked into lenses, I'd be thrilled to have a set made out of it, since it might *FINALLY* mean I'd get to look through scratch-free lenses for more than the first few weeks after getting a new pair... -- Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004. Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address. See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details. |
#7
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Transparent Aluminum?
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 04:52:58 -0500, granpaw
wrote: Bullet resistant too... great for sunglasses sold on eBay. http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123012131 Air Force testing new transparent armor by Laura Lundin Air Force Research Laboratory Public Affairs 10/17/2005 - WRIGHT-PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE, Ohio (AFPN) -- Engineers here are testing a new kind of transparent armor -- stronger and lighter than traditional materials -- that could stop armor-piercing weapons from penetrating vehicle windows. The Air Force Research Laboratory's materials and manufacturing directorate is testing aluminum oxynitride -- ALONtm -- as a replacement for the traditional multi-layered glass transparencies now used in existing ground and air armored vehicles. Does anyone remember in the Star Trek movie..where Scottie gives that fellow a hint about transparent aluminum...... G Gunner The test is being done in conjunction with the Army Research Laboratory at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, Md., and University of Dayton Research Institute, Ohio. ALONtm is a ceramic compound with a high compressive strength and durability. When polished, it is the premier transparent armor for use in armored vehicles, said. 1st Lt. Joseph La Monica, transparent armor sub-direction lead "The substance itself is light years ahead of glass," he said, adding that it offers "higher performance and lighter weight." Traditional transparent armor is thick layers of bonded glass. The new armor combines the transparent ALONtm piece as a strike plate, a middle section of glass and a polymer backing. Each layer is visibly thinner than the traditional layers. ALONtm is virtually scratch resistant, offers substantial impact resistance, and provides better durability and protection against armor piercing threats, at roughly half the weight and half the thickness of traditional glass transparent armor, said the lieutenant. In a June 2004demonstration, an ALONtm test pieces held up to both a .30 caliber Russian M-44 sniper rifle and a .50 caliber Browning Sniper Rifle with armor piercing bullets. While the bullets pierced the glass samples, the armor withstood the impact with no penetration. In extensive testing, ALONtm has performed well against multiple hits of .30 caliber armor piercing rounds -- typical of anti-aircraft fire, Lieutenant La Monica said. Tests focusing on multiple hits from .50 caliber rounds and improvised explosive devices are in the works. The lieutenant is optimistic about the results because the physical properties and design of the material are intended to stop higher level threats. "The higher the threat, the more savings you're going to get," he said. "With glass, to get the protection against higher threats, you have to keep building layers upon layers. But with ALONtm, the material only needs to be increased a few millimeters." This ability to add the needed protection with only a small amount of material is very advantageous, said Ron Hoffman, an investigator at University of Dayton Research Institute. "When looking at higher level threats, you want the protection, not the weight," Mr. Hoffman said. "Achieving protection at lighter weights will allow the armor to be more easily integrated into vehicles." Mr. Hoffman also pointed out the benefit of durability with ALONtm. "Eventually, with a conventional glass surface, degradation takes place and results in a loss of transparency," Mr. Hoffman said. "Things such as sand have little or no impact on ALONtm, and it probably has a life expectancy many times that of glass." The scratch-resistant quality will greatly increase the transparency of the armor, giving military members more visual awareness on the battlefield. "It all comes down to survivability and being able to see what's out there and to make decisions while having the added protection," Mr. Hoffman said. The Army is looking to use the new armor as windows in ground vehicles, like the Humvee, Lieutenant La Monica said. The Air Force is exploring its use for "in-flight protective transparencies for low, slow-flying aircraft. These include the C-130 Hercules, C-17 Globemaster III, A-10 Thunderbolt II and helicopters. While some see the possibilities of this material as limitless, manufacturability, size and cost are issues the lab is dealing with before the armor can transition to the field, the lieutenant said. "Traditional transparent armor costs a little over $3 per square inch. The ALONtm Transparent Armor cost is $10 to $15 per square inch," Lieutenant La Monica said. "The difficulties arise with heating and polishing processes, which lead to higher costs. But we are looking at more cost effective alternatives." Lieutenant La Monica said experimenting with the polishing process has proven beneficial. "We found that by polishing it a certain way, we increased the strength of the material by two-fold," he said. Currently, size is also limited because equipment needed to heat larger pieces is expensive. To help lower costs, the lieutenant said researchers are looking at design variations that use smaller pieces of the armor tiled together to form larger windows. Lowering cost by using a commercial grade material is also an option, and the results have been promising. "So far, the difference between the lower-grade material and higher purity in ballistic tests is minimal," he said. Lieutenant La Monica said once the material can be manufactured in large quantities to meet the military's needs, and the cost brought down, the durability and strength of ALONtm will prove beneficial to the warfighter. "It might cost more in the beginning, but it is going to cost less in the long run because you are going to have to replace it less," he said. (Courtesy of Air Force Materiel Command News Service) I'm wondering how long before this stuff is outsourced to china and then the cheaper product used in vests and limos. "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#8
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Transparent Aluminum?
SNIP
If this stuff can be worked into lenses, I'd be thrilled to have a set made out of it, since it might *FINALLY* mean I'd get to look through scratch-free lenses for more than the first few weeks after getting a new pair... Don, it all depends on the light refraction index of the stuff. One might find that the thickness of the new material to get the prescription you (read that: we) need, the thickness/weight might be well in excess of regular glasses'lenses. This might mean even more weight on our noses, so I guess (my) plastic lenses will have to do until they are prooven better. Keep ur fingers crossed!!! Bill |
#9
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Transparent Aluminum?
"Madeline, Not now!"
You mean that one. Something about "beyond the dreams of avarice" You bet. Respectfully, Ron Moore "Gunner" wrote in message news Does anyone remember in the Star Trek movie..where Scottie gives that fellow a hint about transparent aluminum...... G Gunner |
#10
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Transparent Aluminum?
"Don Bruder" wrote in message ... The part that grabs my attention (as a wearer of corrective lenses not in contact with the eyeball) is that whole "scratch resistance" thing... I'm forever cussing at the cost involved in replacing a set of glasses due to the "fog" of scratches that sooner or later collect on my lenses, regardless of how carefully I handle them. I have prescription safety glasses and I work with abrasives every day, both silicon carbide and aluminium oxide stones and paper/cloth, wheels, etc. I have no scratches on my glasses and have had them for nearly two years. Mine are made by AOSafety and have the thicker lenses (as opposed to the polycarbonate). They're thicker but I think cost less. It occurs to me now that they might be more scratch resistant (important where I work). Regards, Robin |
#11
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Transparent Aluminum?
In article GIv5f.11740$MN6.7646@fed1read04, BillP
wrote: SNIP If this stuff can be worked into lenses, I'd be thrilled to have a set made out of it, since it might *FINALLY* mean I'd get to look through scratch-free lenses for more than the first few weeks after getting a new pair... Don, it all depends on the light refraction index of the stuff. One might find that the thickness of the new material to get the prescription you (read that: we) need, the thickness/weight might be well in excess of regular glasses'lenses. Possible, but from the article, it sounds as though one of the *BIG* factors in this "ALON" stuff is the weight reduction versus glass. How much of that is the "Well, since you only need an eighth of an inch of this stuff to get the equivalent armoring of a 4 inch thick chunk of tempered glass, OF COURSE there's less weight" factor is pure guesswork based on the info available so far, but it does at least sound promising. This might mean even more weight on our noses, so I guess (my) plastic lenses will have to do until they are prooven better. Keep ur fingers crossed!!! Yep... Even if the stuff IS suitable for applications like eyeglasses, there's still the "military lag" factor... Us civilians likely won't see any benefit from it for years, if ever. -- Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004. Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address. See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details. |
#12
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Transparent Aluminum?
Yep... Even if the stuff IS suitable for applications like eyeglasses, there's still the "military lag" factor... Us civilians likely won't see any benefit from it for years, if ever. Ayyyup! Bill |
#13
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Transparent Aluminum?
Robin S. wrote:
I have prescription safety glasses and I work with abrasives every day, both silicon carbide and aluminium oxide stones and paper/cloth, wheels, etc. I have no scratches on my glasses and have had them for nearly two years. Mine are made by AOSafety and have the thicker lenses (as opposed to the polycarbonate). They're thicker but I think cost less. It occurs to me now that they might be more scratch resistant (important where I work). Regards, Robin Robin- You're apparently fortunate in that your exposure to extreem abrasives is one where you apparently don't have the stuff slung in your face on a constant basis. I constantly have muddy and sandy slurry in my face and cannot stop to rinse it off, so it often dries on. (I often CANNOT let go of what I'm doing) Dried on mud and fine sandy deposits do NOT just rinse off, so the scratches, as careful as I am in cleaning my polycarbonate glasses, the scratches still aren't avoidable. ....And where I get my glasses, they charge almost DOUBLE for glass lenses. Bill |
#14
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Transparent Aluminum?
In article qwx5f.11743$MN6.3431@fed1read04, BillP
wrote: Robin S. wrote: I have prescription safety glasses and I work with abrasives every day, both silicon carbide and aluminium oxide stones and paper/cloth, wheels, etc. I have no scratches on my glasses and have had them for nearly two years. Mine are made by AOSafety and have the thicker lenses (as opposed to the polycarbonate). They're thicker but I think cost less. It occurs to me now that they might be more scratch resistant (important where I work). Regards, Robin Robin- You're apparently fortunate in that your exposure to extreem abrasives is one where you apparently don't have the stuff slung in your face on a constant basis. I constantly have muddy and sandy slurry in my face and cannot stop to rinse it off, so it often dries on. (I often CANNOT let go of what I'm doing) Dried on mud and fine sandy deposits do NOT just rinse off, so the scratches, as careful as I am in cleaning my polycarbonate glasses, the scratches still aren't avoidable. ...And where I get my glasses, they charge almost DOUBLE for glass lenses. Bill ONLY double??? The place I went for mine wanted nearly triple the price of polycarbonate, then an extra $70 on top of it for a "scratch-guard" coating, *PLUS* an extra week and $40 for what they called a "drop test" (involving some sort of "calibrated" ball bearing being dropped on each lens from some specific height after it was completed, which they claimed was FDA-mandated for all glass lenses) that had no guarantees of not smashing the lenses and having to start over from sratch. They got told to keep the glass, much as I hate the damn scratch-happy plastic lenses. -- Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004. Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address. See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details. |
#15
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Transparent Aluminum?
...And where I get my glasses, they charge almost DOUBLE for glass lenses. Bill ONLY double??? The place I went for mine wanted nearly triple the price of polycarbonate, then an extra $70 on top of it for a "scratch-guard" coating, *PLUS* an extra week and $40 for what they called a "drop test" (involving some sort of "calibrated" ball bearing being dropped on each lens from some specific height after it was completed, which they claimed was FDA-mandated for all glass lenses) that had no guarantees of not smashing the lenses and having to start over from sratch. They got told to keep the glass, much as I hate the damn scratch-happy plastic lenses. ....Chuckle.... well, Don, I spoke for when this took place... at LEAST a dozen years, or more, ago. It may well have been 3X the poly price, but I do remember it was just out of the question at the time.... and now. SBT.... Bill |
#16
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Transparent Aluminum?
...And where I get my glasses, they charge almost DOUBLE for glass lenses.
Bill Gee wizz. I remember the days when glass was standard and they charged double for polycarb... and I'm not that old! chuck |
#17
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Transparent Aluminum?
Chuck Sherwood wrote:
...And where I get my glasses, they charge almost DOUBLE for glass lenses. Bill Gee wizz. I remember the days when glass was standard and they charged double for polycarb... and I'm not that old! chuck Have to agree that poly was more at one time... Cutting edge stuff usually is. Time/Life does pass quickly...Eh, Chuck? It's like a roll of toilet paper... the closer ya get to the end, the faster it goes!! Ya just don't know which is the last "sheet". Bill |
#18
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Transparent Aluminum?
"Don Bruder" wrote in message ... In article qwx5f.11743$MN6.3431@fed1read04, BillP You're apparently fortunate in that your exposure to extreem abrasives is one where you apparently don't have the stuff slung in your face on a constant basis. I constantly have muddy and sandy slurry in my face and cannot stop to rinse it off, so it often dries on. (I often CANNOT let go of what I'm doing) Dried on mud and fine sandy deposits do NOT just rinse off, so the scratches, as careful as I am in cleaning my polycarbonate glasses, the scratches still aren't avoidable. ...And where I get my glasses, they charge almost DOUBLE for glass lenses. Bill ONLY double??? The place I went for mine wanted nearly triple the price of polycarbonate, then an extra $70 on top of it for a "scratch-guard" coating, *PLUS* an extra week and $40 for what they called a "drop test" (involving some sort of "calibrated" ball bearing being dropped on each lens from some specific height after it was completed, which they claimed was FDA-mandated for all glass lenses) that had no guarantees of not smashing the lenses and having to start over from sratch. They got told to keep the glass, much as I hate the damn scratch-happy plastic lenses. Several points here. If an optician is charging double or triple for glass lenses you should find another optician. The glass does not cost them much more than the plastic if anything. Also never opt for scratch resistant coating on glass lenses. It is a waste of money. Myself I do not buy plastic lenses anymore. I killed one set in two weeks and the second set in two days. If I have to wait for glass I will. The last place I went to get glasses (Wal-Mart) wanted to charge me extra for glass I was about ready to go somewhere else when I had the foresight to ask about the safety glasses. In their pricing structure, they actually charged less for the thicker safety lens and less for the much more durable safety frames than they did for the regular kind. When I enquired why, I was met with a very confused look. I had a friend that was an optician and a lot of the things they do are for the convenience of the optician. As an example the edger they use to trim the lens down to fit the chosen frame is the same for glass as it is for plastic, but if the place only has one machine then they have to farm out the glass lens work to an outside lab. (It is still pretty cheap to do this.) Also with glass lenses they don't get the opportunity to sell you anti-glare and progressive tints or scratch coating. One thing I always do is I always get silicone nose pads and spring hinges. I have a fairly large pair of glasses with the thicker safety glass lenses and when these are properly adjusted they don't give me any red marks on my nose or slip off my face, even in the hot sun when I am sweating like a pig. The real light weight frames are for me, a stinking joke. They constantly go out of adjustment because they lack the structural integrity needed to stand up to a little abuse. -- Roger Shoaf About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then they come up with this striped stuff. |
#19
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Transparent Aluminum?
You want scratch resistance and you want it now? Try the close cousin to the armor, aluminum oxide. Used for bar scanner windows. Very scratch resistant, maybe not as good as this new armour, but good. Someone here was offering samples at one time. A place that grinds lenses for eye glasses could probably make you some lenses. They use diamond wheels for regular glass. Dan |
#20
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Transparent Aluminum?
Beam me up Scotty - when they flew back in time to pick up a Hump back whale.
Needed Transparent Al.... Scotty provided a local glass company owner the special spec for the sample slabs. Computer ::: Oh Computer :: - what is this thing - picks up mouse - looks at keyboard and flexes fingers..... Martin Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder Lew Hartswick wrote: Larry Jaques wrote: Scotty is rolling over in his grave at this revelation of his Transparent Aluminum for non-whale-retrieval use. Larry, I don't recognize the reference. Please elucidate. Use e-mail if you think it appropiate. :-) ...lew... ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#21
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Transparent Aluminum?
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:47:12 -0700, BillP wrote:
Yep... Even if the stuff IS suitable for applications like eyeglasses, there's still the "military lag" factor... Us civilians likely won't see any benefit from it for years, if ever. Ayyyup! Bill Just like mini computers and transistors. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#22
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Transparent Aluminum?
"Gunner" wrote in message
... On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:47:12 -0700, BillP wrote: Yep... Even if the stuff IS suitable for applications like eyeglasses, there's still the "military lag" factor... Us civilians likely won't see any benefit from it for years, if ever. Ayyyup! Bill Just like mini computers and transistors. Gunner I'll go further and say, like just about everything we use in our lives. Despite the chorus of "War, what is it good for?" from all the blathering "peaceniks", human conflict (or conflict avoidance through superior military strength) has driven virtually every significant technological advance since the dawn of civilization through today. Mind you, I'm not advocating warmongering for the sake of driving innovation. I'm just reporting the facts (before the social revisionists rewrite human history). |
#23
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Transparent Aluminum?
wrote in message
oups.com... You want scratch resistance and you want it now? Try the close cousin to the armor, aluminum oxide. Used for bar scanner windows. Also known as corundum. This is the stuff sapphires and rubies are made of (with different impurities creating the different colors). In fact, there are watch makers that use corundum crystals for their watches (usually marketed as "synthetic sapphire" crystals). |
#24
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Transparent Aluminum?
Looks like it already available in the right forms. Yoy might just have
t ask for a price http://www.surmet.com/docs/Processing_ALON.pdf BillP wrote: Yep... Even if the stuff IS suitable for applications like eyeglasses, there's still the "military lag" factor... Us civilians likely won't see any benefit from it for years, if ever. Ayyyup! Bill |
#25
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Transparent Aluminum?
Don Bruder wrote:
The part that grabs my attention (as a wearer of corrective lenses not in contact with the eyeball) is that whole "scratch resistance" thing... I'm forever cussing at the cost involved in replacing a set of glasses due to the "fog" of scratches that sooner or later collect on my lenses, regardless of how carefully I handle them. If this stuff can be worked into lenses, I'd be thrilled to have a set made out of it, since it might *FINALLY* mean I'd get to look through scratch-free lenses for more than the first few weeks after getting a new pair... Isn't Aluminum oxide Sapphire? Don't know what percentage of nitrogen they are talking about, but if I remember right pure Sapphire (straight aluminum and oxygen) are transparent- color is due to various impurities. I know sapphire is used for infrared lenses and windows. I see no reason similar materials cannot be used for lenses, but one must check the dispersion charactoristics to see if result would give too much chromatic aberration. |
#26
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Transparent Aluminum?
BillP wrote:
Yep... Even if the stuff IS suitable for applications like eyeglasses, there's still the "military lag" factor... Us civilians likely won't see any benefit from it for years, if ever. Ayyyup! Bill I can remember many technologies where the lag has been in the other direction. Sometimes getting a new material or new electronic technology through the mil spec certification means that military applications lag civil ones. Transistor is a good example. Same with ICs. While I did not work directly on the VHSIC program, others in my group did, and it was funny to see commercial ICs come out that were better, more transistors, and fast before the results of the VHSIC program ever made it to production. There were, and still are, commercial values for high tech electronics. I also remember seeing carbon fiber make it to commercial uses before it was used in production military aircraft. |
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Transparent Aluminum?
In article ,
"DeepDiver" wrote: wrote in message oups.com... You want scratch resistance and you want it now? Try the close cousin to the armor, aluminum oxide. Used for bar scanner windows. Also known as corundum. I believe you probably meant "carborundum"... This is the stuff sapphires and rubies are made of It is. (with different impurities creating the different colors). In fact, there Also correct. are watch makers that use corundum crystals for their watches (usually marketed as "synthetic sapphire" crystals). I would imagine those are only used on "high end" watches - Stuff on a par with Rolex and similar. I can't see them being used on anything that isn't already toting a hefty, if not grossly oversized, price-tag. -- Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004. Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address. See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details. |
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Transparent Aluminum?
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:55:36 -0700, BillP wrote:
Snip Dried on mud and fine sandy deposits do NOT just rinse off, so the scratches, as careful as I am in cleaning my polycarbonate glasses, the scratches still aren't avoidable. ...And where I get my glasses, they charge almost DOUBLE for glass lenses. Bill Would an ultrasonic cleaning bath be any good ? I use mine for cleaning crap off models and will have to try it on reading glasses as I now have to use them since my cararact operation. Alan in beautiful Golden Bay, Western Oz, South 32.25.42, East 115.45.44 GMT+8 VK6 YAB ICQ 6581610 to reply, change oz to au in address |
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Transparent Aluminum?
I believe Seiko uses sapphire crystals for their watches. While the
retail price is pretty high, you can get a new Seiko for under $25 on ebay. Dan |
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Transparent Aluminum?
Alan!
Yes, the ultrasonic cleaning does a goog job at home in the wife's jewelry cleaner, I haven't the luxury in the field.... several times per day!.... Thx!! Bill wrote: On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:55:36 -0700, BillP wrote: Snip Dried on mud and fine sandy deposits do NOT just rinse off, so the scratches, as careful as I am in cleaning my polycarbonate glasses, the scratches still aren't avoidable. ...And where I get my glasses, they charge almost DOUBLE for glass lenses. Bill Would an ultrasonic cleaning bath be any good ? I use mine for cleaning crap off models and will have to try it on reading glasses as I now have to use them since my cararact operation. Alan in beautiful Golden Bay, Western Oz, South 32.25.42, East 115.45.44 GMT+8 VK6 YAB ICQ 6581610 to reply, change oz to au in address |
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Transparent Aluminum?
It depends a lot on how big the civilian market is and actual
production cost. I think transistors were being used in consumer portable radios while the Army still was using tubes in walkie talkies. Kevlar was used in tires long before NASA would use it. No mil spec. Dan Don Stauffer wrote: BillP wrote: Yep... Even if the stuff IS suitable for applications like eyeglasses, there's still the "military lag" factor... Us civilians likely won't see any benefit from it for years, if ever. Ayyyup! Bill I can remember many technologies where the lag has been in the other direction. Sometimes getting a new material or new electronic technology through the mil spec certification means that military applications lag civil ones. Transistor is a good example. |
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Transparent Aluminum?
"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message ... "Don Bruder" wrote in message ... One thing I always do is I always get silicone nose pads and spring hinges. I have a fairly large pair of glasses with the thicker safety glass lenses and when these are properly adjusted they don't give me any red marks on my nose or slip off my face, even in the hot sun when I am sweating like a pig. The real light weight frames are for me, a stinking joke. They constantly go out of adjustment because they lack the structural integrity needed to stand up to a little abuse. there's a very lightweight metal that mine are made of that are bendable. some sort of titanium alloy i think they told me. they're the lightest i've ever had, stay in adjustment (as i have NEVER had to have them realigned, unlike my previous sets of glasses), and i can twist them into a knot and they bend, but spring back to shape. costs more, of course, but after a few head plants skiing, they pay for themselves. regards, charlie http://glassartists.org/chaniarts |
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Transparent Aluminum?
On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:11:57 GMT, "DeepDiver"
wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:47:12 -0700, BillP wrote: Yep... Even if the stuff IS suitable for applications like eyeglasses, there's still the "military lag" factor... Us civilians likely won't see any benefit from it for years, if ever. Ayyyup! Bill Just like mini computers and transistors. Gunner I'll go further and say, like just about everything we use in our lives. Despite the chorus of "War, what is it good for?" from all the blathering "peaceniks", human conflict (or conflict avoidance through superior military strength) has driven virtually every significant technological advance since the dawn of civilization through today. Mind you, I'm not advocating warmongering for the sake of driving innovation. I'm just reporting the facts (before the social revisionists rewrite human history). And we of course cannot leave out the spin offs in medical. Not just the toys, but the basic treatments. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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Transparent Aluminum?
Larry Jaques wrote: Larry, I don't recognize the reference. Please elucidate. Use e-mail if you think it appropiate. :-) ...lew... SHAME ON YOU!!! |
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Transparent Aluminum?
"Gunner" wrote in message Does anyone remember in the Star Trek movie..where Scottie gives that fellow a hint about transparent aluminum...... G Gunner And just WHERE do you think THIS guy got the idea? |
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Transparent Aluminum?
In article ,
Ned Simmons wrote: In article , says... In article , "DeepDiver" wrote: wrote in message oups.com... You want scratch resistance and you want it now? Try the close cousin to the armor, aluminum oxide. Used for bar scanner windows. Also known as corundum. I believe you probably meant "carborundum"... Corundum is natural crystalline aluminum oxide, Carborundum is a tradename for manmade silicon carbide. Ned Simmons Ahhh... OK. There lies my confusion. I knew with certainty that both are used for abrasives, at least -- Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004. Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address. See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details. |
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Transparent Aluminum?
Sapphire is grown in boules. Like Semiconductor - from a bath and a rotating crystal.
Massive boules can be made - some large 'windows' have been cut. These are used in High voltage, High energy applications that heat and beams won't shatter be compatible with glass. Many 'things' eat glass for lunch. Martin Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder wrote: I believe Seiko uses sapphire crystals for their watches. While the retail price is pretty high, you can get a new Seiko for under $25 on ebay. Dan ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#40
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Transparent Aluminum?
Corundum -- Al2O3 Hematite Group - Sapphire is a color type gem that isn't red - ruby is red.
Other colors are sapphire - blue( star), black (star), yellow, .... also known as corundum, magnetite, hematite, and spinel. That is first year Mineralogy class. Useful when trading stones... Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder Don Stauffer wrote: Don Bruder wrote: The part that grabs my attention (as a wearer of corrective lenses not in contact with the eyeball) is that whole "scratch resistance" thing... I'm forever cussing at the cost involved in replacing a set of glasses due to the "fog" of scratches that sooner or later collect on my lenses, regardless of how carefully I handle them. If this stuff can be worked into lenses, I'd be thrilled to have a set made out of it, since it might *FINALLY* mean I'd get to look through scratch-free lenses for more than the first few weeks after getting a new pair... Isn't Aluminum oxide Sapphire? Don't know what percentage of nitrogen they are talking about, but if I remember right pure Sapphire (straight aluminum and oxygen) are transparent- color is due to various impurities. I know sapphire is used for infrared lenses and windows. I see no reason similar materials cannot be used for lenses, but one must check the dispersion charactoristics to see if result would give too much chromatic aberration. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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