Bullet resistant too... great for sunglasses sold on eBay.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123012131

Air Force testing new transparent armor

by Laura Lundin
Air Force Research Laboratory Public Affairs

10/17/2005 - WRIGHT-PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE, Ohio (AFPN) -- Engineers
here are testing a new kind of transparent armor -- stronger and
lighter than traditional materials -- that could stop armor-piercing
weapons from penetrating vehicle windows.

The Air Force Research Laboratory's materials and manufacturing
directorate is testing aluminum oxynitride -- ALONtm -- as a
replacement for the traditional multi-layered glass transparencies now
used in existing ground and air armored vehicles.

The test is being done in conjunction with the Army Research Laboratory
at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, Md., and University of Dayton Research
Institute, Ohio.

ALONtm is a ceramic compound with a high compressive strength and
durability. When polished, it is the premier transparent armor for use
in armored vehicles, said. 1st Lt. Joseph La Monica, transparent armor
sub-direction lead

"The substance itself is light years ahead of glass," he said, adding
that it offers "higher performance and lighter weight."

Traditional transparent armor is thick layers of bonded glass. The new
armor combines the transparent ALONtm piece as a strike plate, a middle
section of glass and a polymer backing. Each layer is visibly thinner
than the traditional layers.

ALONtm is virtually scratch resistant, offers substantial impact
resistance, and provides better durability and protection against armor
piercing threats, at roughly half the weight and half the thickness of
traditional glass transparent armor, said the lieutenant.

In a June 2004demonstration, an ALONtm test pieces held up to both a
..30 caliber Russian M-44 sniper rifle and a .50 caliber Browning Sniper
Rifle with armor piercing bullets. While the bullets pierced the glass
samples, the armor withstood the impact with no penetration.

In extensive testing, ALONtm has performed well against multiple hits
of .30 caliber armor piercing rounds -- typical of anti-aircraft fire,
Lieutenant La Monica said. Tests focusing on multiple hits from .50
caliber rounds and improvised explosive devices are in the works.

The lieutenant is optimistic about the results because the physical
properties and design of the material are intended to stop higher level
threats.

"The higher the threat, the more savings you're going to get," he said.
"With glass, to get the protection against higher threats, you have to
keep building layers upon layers. But with ALONtm, the material only
needs to be increased a few millimeters."

This ability to add the needed protection with only a small amount of
material is very advantageous, said Ron Hoffman, an investigator at
University of Dayton Research Institute.

"When looking at higher level threats, you want the protection, not the
weight," Mr. Hoffman said. "Achieving protection at lighter weights
will allow the armor to be more easily integrated into vehicles."

Mr. Hoffman also pointed out the benefit of durability with ALONtm.

"Eventually, with a conventional glass surface, degradation takes place
and results in a loss of transparency," Mr. Hoffman said. "Things such
as sand have little or no impact on ALONtm, and it probably has a life
expectancy many times that of glass."

The scratch-resistant quality will greatly increase the transparency of
the armor, giving military members more visual awareness on the
battlefield.

"It all comes down to survivability and being able to see what's out
there and to make decisions while having the added protection," Mr.
Hoffman said.

The Army is looking to use the new armor as windows in ground vehicles,
like the Humvee, Lieutenant La Monica said. The Air Force is exploring
its use for "in-flight protective transparencies for low, slow-flying
aircraft. These include the C-130 Hercules, C-17 Globemaster III, A-10
Thunderbolt II and helicopters.

While some see the possibilities of this material as limitless,
manufacturability, size and cost are issues the lab is dealing with
before the armor can transition to the field, the lieutenant said.

"Traditional transparent armor costs a little over $3 per square inch.
The ALONtm Transparent Armor cost is $10 to $15 per square inch,"
Lieutenant La Monica said. "The difficulties arise with heating and
polishing processes, which lead to higher costs. But we are looking at
more cost effective alternatives."

Lieutenant La Monica said experimenting with the polishing process has
proven beneficial.

"We found that by polishing it a certain way, we increased the strength
of the material by two-fold," he said.

Currently, size is also limited because equipment needed to heat larger
pieces is expensive. To help lower costs, the lieutenant said
researchers are looking at design variations that use smaller pieces of
the armor tiled together to form larger windows.

Lowering cost by using a commercial grade material is also an option,
and the results have been promising.

"So far, the difference between the lower-grade material and higher
purity in ballistic tests is minimal," he said.

Lieutenant La Monica said once the material can be manufactured in
large quantities to meet the military's needs, and the cost brought
down, the durability and strength of ALONtm will prove beneficial to
the warfighter.

"It might cost more in the beginning, but it is going to cost less in
the long run because you are going to have to replace it less," he
said.

(Courtesy of Air Force Materiel Command News Service)


I'm wondering how long before this stuff is outsourced to china and then
the cheaper product used in vests and limos.

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 04:52:58 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
granpaw quickly quoth:

Bullet resistant too... great for sunglasses sold on eBay.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123012131

Air Force testing new transparent armor

by Laura Lundin
Air Force Research Laboratory Public Affairs

10/17/2005 - WRIGHT-PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE, Ohio (AFPN) -- Engineers
here are testing a new kind of transparent armor -- stronger and
lighter than traditional materials -- that could stop armor-piercing
weapons from penetrating vehicle windows.

The Air Force Research Laboratory's materials and manufacturing
directorate is testing aluminum oxynitride -- ALONtm -- as a
replacement for the traditional multi-layered glass transparencies now
used in existing ground and air armored vehicles.

Scotty is rolling over in his grave at this revelation of his
Transparent Aluminum for non-whale-retrieval use.

-----------------------------------------------
I'll apologize for offending someone...right
after they apologize for being easily offended.
-----------------------------------------------
http://www.diversify.com Inoffensive Web Design

Larry Jaques wrote:

Scotty is rolling over in his grave at this revelation of his
Transparent Aluminum for non-whale-retrieval use.


Larry, I don't recognize the reference.
Please elucidate.
Use e-mail if you think it appropiate. :-)
...lew...

"Lew Hartswick" wrote in message
link.net...
Larry Jaques wrote:

Scotty is rolling over in his grave at this revelation of his
Transparent Aluminum for non-whale-retrieval use.


Larry, I don't recognize the reference.
Please elucidate.

As in Beam Me Up Scotty?

http://www.allscifi.com/Topics/Info_3489.asp

"In the process Scotty gives the formula for transparent aluminum, Chekov
gets hurt and Kirk uncharacteristically passes on a chance at romance with
Gillian."

Tim

--
Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:46:45 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Lew
Hartswick quickly quoth:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Scotty is rolling over in his grave at this revelation of his
Transparent Aluminum for non-whale-retrieval use.


Larry, I don't recognize the reference.
Please elucidate.

Engineer Scott on the Enterprise in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.
They gave the secret to a plexiglass manufacturer so they could
retrofit a Klingon Bird of Prey to carry enough seawater + a whale
back to the future to save the Earth from a planet-eating ship which
spoke "whale". Just watch the movie. It was one of their better
ones with lots of self-deprecating humor and Catherine Hicks in her
best and most babelicious years.

-----------------------------------------------
I'll apologize for offending someone...right
after they apologize for being easily offended.
-----------------------------------------------
http://www.diversify.com Inoffensive Web Design

Beam me up Scotty - when they flew back in time to pick up a Hump back whale.
Needed Transparent Al.... Scotty provided a local glass company owner the special spec
for the sample slabs.

Computer ::: Oh Computer :: - what is this thing - picks up mouse - looks at keyboard
and flexes fingers.....

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Lew Hartswick wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:


Scotty is rolling over in his grave at this revelation of his
Transparent Aluminum for non-whale-retrieval use.


Larry, I don't recognize the reference.
Please elucidate.
Use e-mail if you think it appropiate. :-)
...lew...

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Larry Jaques wrote:

Larry, I don't recognize the reference.
Please elucidate.
Use e-mail if you think it appropiate. :-)
...lew...

SHAME ON YOU!!!

In article ,
granpaw wrote:


Mr. Hoffman also pointed out the benefit of durability with ALONtm.

"Eventually, with a conventional glass surface, degradation takes place
and results in a loss of transparency," Mr. Hoffman said. "Things such
as sand have little or no impact on ALONtm, and it probably has a life
expectancy many times that of glass."

The scratch-resistant quality will greatly increase the transparency of
the armor, giving military members more visual awareness on the
battlefield.


I'm wondering how long before this stuff is outsourced to china and then
the cheaper product used in vests and limos.


The part that grabs my attention (as a wearer of corrective lenses not
in contact with the eyeball) is that whole "scratch resistance" thing...
I'm forever cussing at the cost involved in replacing a set of glasses
due to the "fog" of scratches that sooner or later collect on my lenses,
regardless of how carefully I handle them.

If this stuff can be worked into lenses, I'd be thrilled to have a set
made out of it, since it might *FINALLY* mean I'd get to look through
scratch-free lenses for more than the first few weeks after getting a
new pair...

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

SNIP
If this stuff can be worked into lenses, I'd be thrilled to have a set
made out of it, since it might *FINALLY* mean I'd get to look through
scratch-free lenses for more than the first few weeks after getting a
new pair...


Don, it all depends on the light refraction index of the stuff. One
might find that the thickness of the new material to get the
prescription you (read that: we) need, the thickness/weight might be
well in excess of regular glasses'lenses.
This might mean even more weight on our noses, so I guess (my) plastic
lenses will have to do until they are prooven better.
Keep ur fingers crossed!!!
Bill

In article GIv5f.11740$MN6.7646@fed1read04, BillP
wrote:

SNIP
If this stuff can be worked into lenses, I'd be thrilled to have a set
made out of it, since it might *FINALLY* mean I'd get to look through
scratch-free lenses for more than the first few weeks after getting a
new pair...


Don, it all depends on the light refraction index of the stuff. One
might find that the thickness of the new material to get the
prescription you (read that: we) need, the thickness/weight might be
well in excess of regular glasses'lenses.

Possible, but from the article, it sounds as though one of the *BIG*
factors in this "ALON" stuff is the weight reduction versus glass. How
much of that is the "Well, since you only need an eighth of an inch of
this stuff to get the equivalent armoring of a 4 inch thick chunk of
tempered glass, OF COURSE there's less weight" factor is pure guesswork
based on the info available so far, but it does at least sound promising.

This might mean even more weight on our noses, so I guess (my) plastic
lenses will have to do until they are prooven better.
Keep ur fingers crossed!!!

Yep... Even if the stuff IS suitable for applications like eyeglasses,
there's still the "military lag" factor... Us civilians likely won't see
any benefit from it for years, if ever.

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

Yep... Even if the stuff IS suitable for applications like eyeglasses,
there's still the "military lag" factor... Us civilians likely won't see
any benefit from it for years, if ever.


Ayyyup!
Bill

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:47:12 -0700, BillP wrote:


Yep... Even if the stuff IS suitable for applications like eyeglasses,
there's still the "military lag" factor... Us civilians likely won't see
any benefit from it for years, if ever.


Ayyyup!
Bill

Just like mini computers and transistors.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Looks like it already available in the right forms. Yoy might just have
t ask for a price

http://www.surmet.com/docs/Processing_ALON.pdf

BillP wrote:


Yep... Even if the stuff IS suitable for applications like
eyeglasses, there's still the "military lag" factor... Us civilians
likely won't see any benefit from it for years, if ever.


Ayyyup!
Bill

BillP wrote:

Yep... Even if the stuff IS suitable for applications like eyeglasses,
there's still the "military lag" factor... Us civilians likely won't
see any benefit from it for years, if ever.


Ayyyup!
Bill

I can remember many technologies where the lag has been in the other
direction. Sometimes getting a new material or new electronic
technology through the mil spec certification means that military
applications lag civil ones. Transistor is a good example.

Same with ICs. While I did not work directly on the VHSIC program,
others in my group did, and it was funny to see commercial ICs come out
that were better, more transistors, and fast before the results of the
VHSIC program ever made it to production.

There were, and still are, commercial values for high tech electronics.
I also remember seeing carbon fiber make it to commercial uses before
it was used in production military aircraft.

"Don Bruder" wrote in message
...

The part that grabs my attention (as a wearer of corrective lenses not
in contact with the eyeball) is that whole "scratch resistance" thing...
I'm forever cussing at the cost involved in replacing a set of glasses
due to the "fog" of scratches that sooner or later collect on my lenses,
regardless of how carefully I handle them.


I have prescription safety glasses and I work with abrasives every day, both
silicon carbide and aluminium oxide stones and paper/cloth, wheels, etc. I
have no scratches on my glasses and have had them for nearly two years.

Mine are made by AOSafety and have the thicker lenses (as opposed to the
polycarbonate). They're thicker but I think cost less. It occurs to me now
that they might be more scratch resistant (important where I work).

Regards,

Robin

Robin S. wrote:

I have prescription safety glasses and I work with abrasives every day, both
silicon carbide and aluminium oxide stones and paper/cloth, wheels, etc. I
have no scratches on my glasses and have had them for nearly two years.

Mine are made by AOSafety and have the thicker lenses (as opposed to the
polycarbonate). They're thicker but I think cost less. It occurs to me now
that they might be more scratch resistant (important where I work).

Regards,

Robin



Robin-
You're apparently fortunate in that your exposure to extreem abrasives
is one where you apparently don't have the stuff slung in your face on a
constant basis. I constantly have muddy and sandy slurry in my face and
cannot stop to rinse it off, so it often dries on. (I often CANNOT let
go of what I'm doing)
Dried on mud and fine sandy deposits do NOT just rinse off, so the
scratches, as careful as I am in cleaning my polycarbonate glasses, the
scratches still aren't avoidable.
....And where I get my glasses, they charge almost DOUBLE for glass lenses.
Bill

In article qwx5f.11743$MN6.3431@fed1read04, BillP
wrote:

Robin S. wrote:

I have prescription safety glasses and I work with abrasives every day,
both
silicon carbide and aluminium oxide stones and paper/cloth, wheels, etc. I
have no scratches on my glasses and have had them for nearly two years.

Mine are made by AOSafety and have the thicker lenses (as opposed to the
polycarbonate). They're thicker but I think cost less. It occurs to me now
that they might be more scratch resistant (important where I work).

Regards,

Robin



Robin-
You're apparently fortunate in that your exposure to extreem abrasives
is one where you apparently don't have the stuff slung in your face on a
constant basis. I constantly have muddy and sandy slurry in my face and
cannot stop to rinse it off, so it often dries on. (I often CANNOT let
go of what I'm doing)
Dried on mud and fine sandy deposits do NOT just rinse off, so the
scratches, as careful as I am in cleaning my polycarbonate glasses, the
scratches still aren't avoidable.
...And where I get my glasses, they charge almost DOUBLE for glass lenses.
Bill

ONLY double???

The place I went for mine wanted nearly triple the price of
polycarbonate, then an extra $70 on top of it for a "scratch-guard"
coating, *PLUS* an extra week and $40 for what they called a "drop test"
(involving some sort of "calibrated" ball bearing being dropped on each
lens from some specific height after it was completed, which they
claimed was FDA-mandated for all glass lenses) that had no guarantees of
not smashing the lenses and having to start over from sratch.

They got told to keep the glass, much as I hate the damn scratch-happy
plastic lenses.

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

...And where I get my glasses, they charge almost DOUBLE for glass lenses.
Bill


ONLY double???

The place I went for mine wanted nearly triple the price of
polycarbonate, then an extra $70 on top of it for a "scratch-guard"
coating, *PLUS* an extra week and $40 for what they called a "drop test"
(involving some sort of "calibrated" ball bearing being dropped on each
lens from some specific height after it was completed, which they
claimed was FDA-mandated for all glass lenses) that had no guarantees of
not smashing the lenses and having to start over from sratch.

They got told to keep the glass, much as I hate the damn scratch-happy
plastic lenses.


....Chuckle.... well, Don, I spoke for when this took place... at LEAST a
dozen years, or more, ago. It may well have been 3X the poly price, but
I do remember it was just out of the question at the time.... and now.
SBT....

Bill

"Don Bruder" wrote in message
...
In article qwx5f.11743$MN6.3431@fed1read04, BillP
You're apparently fortunate in that your exposure to extreem abrasives
is one where you apparently don't have the stuff slung in your face on a
constant basis. I constantly have muddy and sandy slurry in my face and
cannot stop to rinse it off, so it often dries on. (I often CANNOT let
go of what I'm doing)
Dried on mud and fine sandy deposits do NOT just rinse off, so the
scratches, as careful as I am in cleaning my polycarbonate glasses, the
scratches still aren't avoidable.
...And where I get my glasses, they charge almost DOUBLE for glass
lenses.
Bill

ONLY double???

The place I went for mine wanted nearly triple the price of
polycarbonate, then an extra $70 on top of it for a "scratch-guard"
coating, *PLUS* an extra week and $40 for what they called a "drop test"
(involving some sort of "calibrated" ball bearing being dropped on each
lens from some specific height after it was completed, which they
claimed was FDA-mandated for all glass lenses) that had no guarantees of
not smashing the lenses and having to start over from sratch.

They got told to keep the glass, much as I hate the damn scratch-happy
plastic lenses.


Several points here. If an optician is charging double or triple for glass
lenses you should find another optician. The glass does not cost them much
more than the plastic if anything.

Also never opt for scratch resistant coating on glass lenses. It is a waste
of money.

Myself I do not buy plastic lenses anymore. I killed one set in two weeks
and the second set in two days. If I have to wait for glass I will. The
last place I went to get glasses (Wal-Mart) wanted to charge me extra for
glass I was about ready to go somewhere else when I had the foresight to ask
about the safety glasses. In their pricing structure, they actually charged
less for the thicker safety lens and less for the much more durable safety
frames than they did for the regular kind. When I enquired why, I was met
with a very confused look.

I had a friend that was an optician and a lot of the things they do are for
the convenience of the optician. As an example the edger they use to trim
the lens down to fit the chosen frame is the same for glass as it is for
plastic, but if the place only has one machine then they have to farm out
the glass lens work to an outside lab. (It is still pretty cheap to do
this.) Also with glass lenses they don't get the opportunity to sell you
anti-glare and progressive tints or scratch coating.

One thing I always do is I always get silicone nose pads and spring hinges.
I have a fairly large pair of glasses with the thicker safety glass lenses
and when these are properly adjusted they don't give me any red marks on my
nose or slip off my face, even in the hot sun when I am sweating like a pig.
The real light weight frames are for me, a stinking joke. They constantly
go out of adjustment because they lack the structural integrity needed to
stand up to a little abuse.
--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:55:36 -0700, BillP wrote:
Snip
Dried on mud and fine sandy deposits do NOT just rinse off, so the
scratches, as careful as I am in cleaning my polycarbonate glasses, the
scratches still aren't avoidable.
...And where I get my glasses, they charge almost DOUBLE for glass lenses.
Bill

Would an ultrasonic cleaning bath be any good ? I use mine for
cleaning crap off models and will have to try it on reading glasses
as I now have to use them since my cararact operation.
Alan
in beautiful Golden Bay, Western Oz, South 32.25.42, East 115.45.44 GMT+8
VK6 YAB ICQ 6581610 to reply, change oz to au in address

Alan!
Yes, the ultrasonic cleaning does a goog job at home in the wife's
jewelry cleaner, I haven't the luxury in the field.... several times per
day!....
Thx!!
Bill


wrote:
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:55:36 -0700, BillP wrote:
Snip

Dried on mud and fine sandy deposits do NOT just rinse off, so the
scratches, as careful as I am in cleaning my polycarbonate glasses, the
scratches still aren't avoidable.
...And where I get my glasses, they charge almost DOUBLE for glass lenses.
Bill


Would an ultrasonic cleaning bath be any good ? I use mine for
cleaning crap off models and will have to try it on reading glasses
as I now have to use them since my cararact operation.
Alan
in beautiful Golden Bay, Western Oz, South 32.25.42, East 115.45.44 GMT+8
VK6 YAB ICQ 6581610 to reply, change oz to au in address

You want scratch resistance and you want it now? Try the close cousin
to the armor, aluminum oxide. Used for bar scanner windows. Very
scratch resistant, maybe not as good as this new armour, but good.

Someone here was offering samples at one time. A place that grinds
lenses for eye glasses could probably make you some lenses. They use
diamond wheels for regular glass.


Dan

wrote in message
oups.com...

You want scratch resistance and you want it now? Try the close cousin
to the armor, aluminum oxide. Used for bar scanner windows.

Also known as corundum. This is the stuff sapphires and rubies are made of
(with different impurities creating the different colors). In fact, there
are watch makers that use corundum crystals for their watches (usually
marketed as "synthetic sapphire" crystals).

In article ,
"DeepDiver" wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...

You want scratch resistance and you want it now? Try the close cousin
to the armor, aluminum oxide. Used for bar scanner windows.

Also known as corundum.

I believe you probably meant "carborundum"...

This is the stuff sapphires and rubies are made of

It is.

(with different impurities creating the different colors). In fact, there

Also correct.

are watch makers that use corundum crystals for their watches (usually
marketed as "synthetic sapphire" crystals).

I would imagine those are only used on "high end" watches - Stuff on a
par with Rolex and similar. I can't see them being used on anything that
isn't already toting a hefty, if not grossly oversized, price-tag.

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

In article ,
says...
In article ,
"DeepDiver" wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...

You want scratch resistance and you want it now? Try the close cousin
to the armor, aluminum oxide. Used for bar scanner windows.

Also known as corundum.

I believe you probably meant "carborundum"...


Corundum is natural crystalline aluminum oxide, Carborundum
is a tradename for manmade silicon carbide.

Ned Simmons

I believe Seiko uses sapphire crystals for their watches. While the
retail price is pretty high, you can get a new Seiko for under $25 on
ebay.

Dan

On 19 Oct 2005 15:03:07 -0700, " wrote:


You want scratch resistance and you want it now? Try the close cousin
to the armor, aluminum oxide. Used for bar scanner windows. Very
scratch resistant, maybe not as good as this new armour, but good.

Someone here was offering samples at one time. A place that grinds
lenses for eye glasses could probably make you some lenses. They use
diamond wheels for regular glass.


Dan

My last (recent ) set of glasses with glass lenses are very abrasion
sensitive. The lenses are uncoated. Has the lens glass been getting softer
to make the manufacturing easier? It really bugs me that my old glasses were
about ten times more scratch resistant than the new ones.

--

Boris Mohar

Don Bruder wrote:


The part that grabs my attention (as a wearer of corrective lenses not
in contact with the eyeball) is that whole "scratch resistance" thing...
I'm forever cussing at the cost involved in replacing a set of glasses
due to the "fog" of scratches that sooner or later collect on my lenses,
regardless of how carefully I handle them.

If this stuff can be worked into lenses, I'd be thrilled to have a set
made out of it, since it might *FINALLY* mean I'd get to look through
scratch-free lenses for more than the first few weeks after getting a
new pair...


Isn't Aluminum oxide Sapphire? Don't know what percentage of nitrogen
they are talking about, but if I remember right pure Sapphire (straight
aluminum and oxygen) are transparent- color is due to various
impurities. I know sapphire is used for infrared lenses and windows. I
see no reason similar materials cannot be used for lenses, but one must
check the dispersion charactoristics to see if result would give too
much chromatic aberration.

Corundum -- Al2O3 Hematite Group - Sapphire is a color type gem that isn't red - ruby is red.
Other colors are sapphire - blue( star), black (star), yellow, ....
also known as corundum, magnetite, hematite, and spinel.

That is first year Mineralogy class. Useful when trading stones...

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Don Stauffer wrote:
Don Bruder wrote:


The part that grabs my attention (as a wearer of corrective lenses not
in contact with the eyeball) is that whole "scratch resistance"
thing... I'm forever cussing at the cost involved in replacing a set
of glasses due to the "fog" of scratches that sooner or later collect
on my lenses, regardless of how carefully I handle them.
If this stuff can be worked into lenses, I'd be thrilled to have a set
made out of it, since it might *FINALLY* mean I'd get to look through
scratch-free lenses for more than the first few weeks after getting a
new pair...


Isn't Aluminum oxide Sapphire? Don't know what percentage of nitrogen
they are talking about, but if I remember right pure Sapphire (straight
aluminum and oxygen) are transparent- color is due to various
impurities. I know sapphire is used for infrared lenses and windows. I
see no reason similar materials cannot be used for lenses, but one must
check the dispersion charactoristics to see if result would give too
much chromatic aberration.

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In article ,
"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote:

Corundum -- Al2O3 Hematite Group - Sapphire is a color type gem that isn't
red - ruby is red.
Other colors are sapphire - blue( star), black (star), yellow, ....
also known as corundum,

I'll buy that one, as I already know it's correct.

magnetite, hematite,

But not these two, which I know in both cases to be forms of iron, not
aluminum. Magnetite, in particular, is definitely ferrous - Under the
name of Lodestone, in association with a piece of string to hang it
from, or a cork and a bowl of water to float it with/on, it was
humanity's first compass needle. Except when used as a coil winding,
I've never heard of any form of aluminum exhibiting magnetic
properties... As for Hematite, I've heard it described, by several
different persons in positions to know, as "crystalized rust" because
it's essentially a lump of iron oxides with a handful of impurities.

and spinel.

Eh... Might be, but not sure, and not interested enough to find out.

Perhaps being classed in the "Hematite group" indicates they all have
similar crystal structures? They definitely don't have the same
molecular structures!

That is first year Mineralogy class. Useful when trading stones...

Mayhap someone needs to attend it...

--
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Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
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See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

"Don Bruder" wrote in message
...
magnetite, hematite,

But not these two, which I know in both cases to be forms of iron, not
aluminum.

These things were listed rather ambiguously, but I know what was meant:
Hematite, corundum, chromium oxide and I think a number of rare earth
oxides, all take the same crystal structure, and have similar atomic
dimensions so are somewhat replacable by each other.

Magnetite, in particular, is definitely ferrous -
....
and spinel.

Eh... Might be, but not sure, and not interested enough to find out.

The other interesting aspect of the above-mentioned trio is they form a nice
stable crystal structure with divalent metals, known as the spinel
structure. The divalent metals include (let's see if I can get them all
from memory):
magnesium, manganese, iron, nickel, zinc, and in a related vein, lead.
(Note that iron appears in both lists because it is di- and tri-valent!)
Thus, what you get are 15 combinations of these elements, known as spinels,
of the form XO.Y2O3 = XY2O4. For example, the namesake mineral spinel is
magnesium aluminate, MgAl2O4. Chromite, the chromium ore, is ferrous
chromite (not chromate), FeCr2O4.

A consequence of the dual behavior of iron is magnetite, FeO.Fe2O3 = FeFe2O4
= Fe3O4. Magnetite is very stable: at high temperatures, it can be reduced
to ferrous oxide (FeO), but between 300 and 560°C, FeO disproportionates to
iron (metal) and magnetite! Likewise, it can be oxidized (most easily by
weathering at low temperature), but Fe2O3 actually decomposes into Fe3O4
with a release of oxygen at 1451°C. Magnetite also has a higher melting
point than FeO, slightly higher than the melting point of steel (though you
can't observe this directly because any oxide attached to that melting piece
of steel will be reduced by the metal, causing the slag to literally drip
off the iron, which looks very interesting).

Industrially, chromite refractories such as MgCr2O4, FeCr2O4 and MgAl2O4 are
often used to buffer between cheap, acidic, silica-rich firebricks and more
expensive, basic dolomite and magnesia bricks. The basic bricks are used
because, in addition to being highly refractory (MP 2400°C), they absorb
sulfur and phosphorous from the steel contained within. These basic
refractories gave rise to the terms "basic oxygen process" and "basic open
hearth process", neither of which are mechanically "basic".

Perhaps being classed in the "Hematite group" indicates they all have
similar crystal structures? They definitely don't have the same
molecular structures!

That's because they aren't in molecules, they're in crystals. ;o)

Tim

--
Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

I know you are familar with Alnico, an aluminum alloy. It is so
different from most aluminum alloys that I usually forget it too.

Dan

Don Bruder wrote:

I've never heard of any form of aluminum exhibiting magnetic
properties...
--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
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Sorry to say - I'll plagiarize and show you a bit closer to the facts.

In Oxides and Hydroxides
Hematite Group
Corundum- Al2O3
Name: Probably derived from the Sanskrit, Kuruvinda, "ruby"; korundum.
Varieties: A very impure material, known as emery, is an intimate mixture of
granular corundum, magnetite, hematite and spinel.

So Emery is a variety of Corundum and happens to be the only entry in the book in this reference.

Spinel is MgAL2o4 it has a touch of Magnesium and another oxygen. Can be man made easily.
(and is in another group - the Spinel Group.)

Ruby add chromium for some of the Al. Not all. Sometimes the lesser ruby is Fe or Ti or now
FeTio3 all together.


Hematite is Fe2O3
Ilmenite is FeTiO3
Geikielite - MgTiO3
Pyophanite - MnTiO3

So as chemical elements - there are not exacts for this or that. Gemstones are mixtures
of alloys... And the names are the confusing issue. Different chemical content for the
same name simply due to local use, greed, or custom.....


What I slipped up on is truncating to much stuff and left off the 'emery'.

Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Don Bruder wrote:
In article ,
"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote:


Corundum -- Al2O3 Hematite Group - Sapphire is a color type gem that isn't
red - ruby is red.
Other colors are sapphire - blue( star), black (star), yellow, ....
also known as corundum,


I'll buy that one, as I already know it's correct.


magnetite, hematite,


But not these two, which I know in both cases to be forms of iron, not
aluminum. Magnetite, in particular, is definitely ferrous - Under the
name of Lodestone, in association with a piece of string to hang it
from, or a cork and a bowl of water to float it with/on, it was
humanity's first compass needle. Except when used as a coil winding,
I've never heard of any form of aluminum exhibiting magnetic
properties... As for Hematite, I've heard it described, by several
different persons in positions to know, as "crystalized rust" because
it's essentially a lump of iron oxides with a handful of impurities.


and spinel.


Eh... Might be, but not sure, and not interested enough to find out.

Perhaps being classed in the "Hematite group" indicates they all have
similar crystal structures? They definitely don't have the same
molecular structures!


That is first year Mineralogy class. Useful when trading stones...


Mayhap someone needs to attend it...


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In article ,
Don Bruder wrote:

The part that grabs my attention (as a wearer of corrective lenses not
in contact with the eyeball) is that whole "scratch resistance" thing...
I'm forever cussing at the cost involved in replacing a set of glasses
due to the "fog" of scratches that sooner or later collect on my lenses,
regardless of how carefully I handle them.

If this stuff can be worked into lenses, I'd be thrilled to have a set
made out of it, since it might *FINALLY* mean I'd get to look through
scratch-free lenses for more than the first few weeks after getting a
new pair...

Yes! You know what else destroys lenses in a hurry? A "helpful"
child with a muddy shirt wanting to clean my glasses for me while I'm
taking a nap. I might as well just pop my left lens out right now.
I'm about a hair from going to the glasses place with a set of
chipping goggles and saying, "I want prescription GLASS lenses to fit
these!" I'd look like a freak, but I'd be able to see. Straight ahead,
anyway. (:
BTW: there's a really expensive watch out on the market with a case
made of this stuff. In fact googling gets me:
http://forums.timezone.com/index.php...=1070175&rid=0

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net

Don Bruder wrote On 10/19/05 09:42,:

The part that grabs my attention (as a wearer of corrective lenses not
in contact with the eyeball) is that whole "scratch resistance" thing...
I'm forever cussing at the cost involved in replacing a set of glasses
due to the "fog" of scratches that sooner or later collect on my lenses,
regardless of how carefully I handle them.

If this stuff can be worked into lenses, I'd be thrilled to have a set
made out of it, since it might *FINALLY* mean I'd get to look through
scratch-free lenses for more than the first few weeks after getting a
new pair...


A PS, I used to demand glass lenses instead of plastic for that reason,
glass is much less prone to scratching than plastic. I finally switched
because, well, I am slowly going blind and the damm things weighed a ton.

What I discovered, that helped tremendously, is the method I and others
used to clean their glasses was the problem. Most folks whip out a soft
cloth to clean them, which is exactly what causes the scratches. You are
basically grinding the lenses with small dust particles embedded into
the cloth.

I switched to always cleaning them by washing them first with soap and
water. The soap removes any grease that is holding the dust in place.

Think of it this way. Unless you are grinding with a shower of particles
in your face, you're not getting the scratches while you are working.
Anything strong enough to scratch even plastic, you would feel if it
hit you in the face.

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 04:52:58 -0500, granpaw
wrote:

Bullet resistant too... great for sunglasses sold on eBay.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123012131

Air Force testing new transparent armor

by Laura Lundin
Air Force Research Laboratory Public Affairs

10/17/2005 - WRIGHT-PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE, Ohio (AFPN) -- Engineers
here are testing a new kind of transparent armor -- stronger and
lighter than traditional materials -- that could stop armor-piercing
weapons from penetrating vehicle windows.

The Air Force Research Laboratory's materials and manufacturing
directorate is testing aluminum oxynitride -- ALONtm -- as a
replacement for the traditional multi-layered glass transparencies now
used in existing ground and air armored vehicles.

Does anyone remember in the Star Trek movie..where Scottie gives that
fellow a hint about transparent aluminum......

G

Gunner


The test is being done in conjunction with the Army Research Laboratory
at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, Md., and University of Dayton Research
Institute, Ohio.

ALONtm is a ceramic compound with a high compressive strength and
durability. When polished, it is the premier transparent armor for use
in armored vehicles, said. 1st Lt. Joseph La Monica, transparent armor
sub-direction lead

"The substance itself is light years ahead of glass," he said, adding
that it offers "higher performance and lighter weight."

Traditional transparent armor is thick layers of bonded glass. The new
armor combines the transparent ALONtm piece as a strike plate, a middle
section of glass and a polymer backing. Each layer is visibly thinner
than the traditional layers.

ALONtm is virtually scratch resistant, offers substantial impact
resistance, and provides better durability and protection against armor
piercing threats, at roughly half the weight and half the thickness of
traditional glass transparent armor, said the lieutenant.

In a June 2004demonstration, an ALONtm test pieces held up to both a
.30 caliber Russian M-44 sniper rifle and a .50 caliber Browning Sniper
Rifle with armor piercing bullets. While the bullets pierced the glass
samples, the armor withstood the impact with no penetration.

In extensive testing, ALONtm has performed well against multiple hits
of .30 caliber armor piercing rounds -- typical of anti-aircraft fire,
Lieutenant La Monica said. Tests focusing on multiple hits from .50
caliber rounds and improvised explosive devices are in the works.

The lieutenant is optimistic about the results because the physical
properties and design of the material are intended to stop higher level
threats.

"The higher the threat, the more savings you're going to get," he said.
"With glass, to get the protection against higher threats, you have to
keep building layers upon layers. But with ALONtm, the material only
needs to be increased a few millimeters."

This ability to add the needed protection with only a small amount of
material is very advantageous, said Ron Hoffman, an investigator at
University of Dayton Research Institute.

"When looking at higher level threats, you want the protection, not the
weight," Mr. Hoffman said. "Achieving protection at lighter weights
will allow the armor to be more easily integrated into vehicles."

Mr. Hoffman also pointed out the benefit of durability with ALONtm.

"Eventually, with a conventional glass surface, degradation takes place
and results in a loss of transparency," Mr. Hoffman said. "Things such
as sand have little or no impact on ALONtm, and it probably has a life
expectancy many times that of glass."

The scratch-resistant quality will greatly increase the transparency of
the armor, giving military members more visual awareness on the
battlefield.

"It all comes down to survivability and being able to see what's out
there and to make decisions while having the added protection," Mr.
Hoffman said.

The Army is looking to use the new armor as windows in ground vehicles,
like the Humvee, Lieutenant La Monica said. The Air Force is exploring
its use for "in-flight protective transparencies for low, slow-flying
aircraft. These include the C-130 Hercules, C-17 Globemaster III, A-10
Thunderbolt II and helicopters.

While some see the possibilities of this material as limitless,
manufacturability, size and cost are issues the lab is dealing with
before the armor can transition to the field, the lieutenant said.

"Traditional transparent armor costs a little over $3 per square inch.
The ALONtm Transparent Armor cost is $10 to $15 per square inch,"
Lieutenant La Monica said. "The difficulties arise with heating and
polishing processes, which lead to higher costs. But we are looking at
more cost effective alternatives."

Lieutenant La Monica said experimenting with the polishing process has
proven beneficial.

"We found that by polishing it a certain way, we increased the strength
of the material by two-fold," he said.

Currently, size is also limited because equipment needed to heat larger
pieces is expensive. To help lower costs, the lieutenant said
researchers are looking at design variations that use smaller pieces of
the armor tiled together to form larger windows.

Lowering cost by using a commercial grade material is also an option,
and the results have been promising.

"So far, the difference between the lower-grade material and higher
purity in ballistic tests is minimal," he said.

Lieutenant La Monica said once the material can be manufactured in
large quantities to meet the military's needs, and the cost brought
down, the durability and strength of ALONtm will prove beneficial to
the warfighter.

"It might cost more in the beginning, but it is going to cost less in
the long run because you are going to have to replace it less," he
said.

(Courtesy of Air Force Materiel Command News Service)


I'm wondering how long before this stuff is outsourced to china and then
the cheaper product used in vests and limos.

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Madeline, Not now!"
You mean that one.
Something about "beyond the dreams of avarice"
You bet.
Respectfully,
Ron Moore

"Gunner" wrote in message
news

Does anyone remember in the Star Trek movie..where Scottie gives that
fellow a hint about transparent aluminum......

G

Gunner

"Gunner" wrote in message Does anyone
remember in the Star Trek movie..where Scottie gives that
fellow a hint about transparent aluminum......

G

Gunner

And just WHERE do you think THIS guy got the idea?

Scottie is the chief engineer.
Scottie has nuclear and other 'fancy' stuff with windows in it.
But he was on a Klingon ship - and knew what he needed, just no shop to make it for him.
After all - the Star class Cruzer - has most everything or can make it.

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Tom Gardner wrote:
"Gunner" wrote in message Does anyone
remember in the Star Trek movie..where Scottie gives that

fellow a hint about transparent aluminum......

G

Gunner


And just WHERE do you think THIS guy got the idea?



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On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 04:52:58 -0500, granpaw
wrote:

Bullet resistant too... great for sunglasses sold on eBay.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123012131

(snip)

I wonder if the 'legend' of transparent aluminum is an outgrowth of
the use of an aluminum film for use in astronomical mrrors. The film
develops a hard oxide coating that is transparent and durable.

It isn't as reflective as silver but has a much longer lifetime
because it doesn't tarnish. It was a very important development in
telescope technology.

Soames