What kinds of machines do you have for this job?
How many do you need to make; in other words, how much is it worth to
build some tooling/fixtures?

What I'm toying with is the idea of a custom travel rest with a good
heavy sleeve bearing for the 1/4 stock, sturdy tool on the compound.
Some method* to produce the taper from small end to large end as the
slide moves toward the head end. Take the full cut in one go, like in a
box turning cutter.

* methods could range from CNC to judicious handwheel turning based on a
table of dial marks vs slide travel. An actual taper attachment for the
cross slide would make this a piece of cake, even avoid eating it all in
one whack.

Sounds like fun to someone who doesn't have to do it!
--
Fred R
________________
Drop TROU to email.

I have been asked if I can make some items that use a steel rod tapering
from 1/4" down to 3/32" over about 7". All I can think of at the moment
is to try and turn it but using a special tailstock centre to allow it
to be placed in tension and offset the tailstock to set the taper as
normal. The taper doesn't have to be accurate, it could be slightly
barreled, but does need to be smooth. Any body have any better ideas.

In article , David Billington
says...

I have been asked if I can make some items that use a steel rod tapering
from 1/4" down to 3/32" over about 7". All I can think of at the moment
is to try and turn it but using a special tailstock centre to allow it
to be placed in tension and offset the tailstock to set the taper as
normal. The taper doesn't have to be accurate, it could be slightly
barreled, but does need to be smooth. Any body have any better ideas.

I think this would typically be done using a taper attachment.

If you don't have a taper attachment, turn it between centers
and set over the tailstock.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Harrison M300, no taper attachment and not likely to buy one,
bridgeport. Quantity maybe 4 at the moment and more occasionally. I
would make some simple tooling for it if it didn't take more than a
couple of hours for interest sake. It not really a commercial thing.

Fred R wrote:

What kinds of machines do you have for this job?
How many do you need to make; in other words, how much is it worth to
build some tooling/fixtures?

What I'm toying with is the idea of a custom travel rest with a good
heavy sleeve bearing for the 1/4 stock, sturdy tool on the compound.
Some method* to produce the taper from small end to large end as the
slide moves toward the head end. Take the full cut in one go, like in
a box turning cutter.

* methods could range from CNC to judicious handwheel turning based on
a table of dial marks vs slide travel. An actual taper attachment for
the cross slide would make this a piece of cake, even avoid eating it
all in one whack.

Sounds like fun to someone who doesn't have to do it!

David Billington wrote:
I have been asked if I can make some items that use a steel rod tapering
from 1/4" down to 3/32" over about 7". All I can think of at the moment
is to try and turn it but using a special tailstock centre to allow it
to be placed in tension and offset the tailstock to set the taper as
normal. The taper doesn't have to be accurate, it could be slightly
barreled, but does need to be smooth. Any body have any better ideas.


Don't know anything about your special tailstock center, I assume it has
some kind of chuck--but if you were to offset the tailstock in the usual
way for tapers, something like that is not likely to work unless it has
some kind of swivel joint.

I might try turning the bulk of it off on the lathe, then finish off
with grinding, sanding or filing while spinning.

If it doesn't have to be accurate, chuck a 1/4" shaft in a portable
drill and grind it while spinning. Start with a coarse wheel, then
finish off with a belt sander which would give a fairly straight taper
if the sander's platen were long enough.

Or chuck it in a drill press, and use an angle grinder.

Ken Grunke

--
take da "ma" offa dot com fer eemayl

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Due to the slenderness I think it won't work without special support.
Fred R comment got me thinking a bit more and I am considering making a
brass bar with a 1/8" radius groove to support the bar against the
cutting force and act as a fixed steady. Due to it being 1/4" diameter
it'll bend near the chuck without probllem and allow the steady to be
set at the required angle.

jim rozen wrote:

In article , David Billington
says...

I have been asked if I can make some items that use a steel rod tapering

from 1/4" down to 3/32" over about 7". All I can think of at the moment

is to try and turn it but using a special tailstock centre to allow it
to be placed in tension and offset the tailstock to set the taper as
normal. The taper doesn't have to be accurate, it could be slightly
barreled, but does need to be smooth. Any body have any better ideas.


I think this would typically be done using a taper attachment.

If you don't have a taper attachment, turn it between centers
and set over the tailstock.

Jim

What if you set the tailstock over the opposite way (away from the operator),
used a follower rest, and cut it with the narrow end to the headstock? - GWE

David Billington wrote:

Due to the slenderness I think it won't work without special support.
Fred R comment got me thinking a bit more and I am considering making a
brass bar with a 1/8" radius groove to support the bar against the
cutting force and act as a fixed steady. Due to it being 1/4" diameter
it'll bend near the chuck without probllem and allow the steady to be
set at the required angle.

jim rozen wrote:

In article , David
Billington
says...

I have been asked if I can make some items that use a steel rod tapering
from 1/4" down to 3/32" over about 7". All I can think of at the moment


is to try and turn it but using a special tailstock centre to allow
it to be placed in tension and offset the tailstock to set the taper
as normal. The taper doesn't have to be accurate, it could be
slightly barreled, but does need to be smooth. Any body have any
better ideas.


I think this would typically be done using a taper attachment.

If you don't have a taper attachment, turn it between centers
and set over the tailstock.

Jim

Hi David,
if you have a lathe:
use thicker stock material, face on both sides and bore center on both sides
w. center drill.

turn between centers, with tailstock set over and use a travel rest.
on both sides leave about 1/2" long thick for later use in the chuck
then mount the chuck and cut off either end

If you do not have a travel rest you may use some square material, drill a
hole and insert a round brass bar with the end cut to a V. This will be just
right to avoid too much flex. (Lubricate well: gear oil is just fine).

/jan


David Billington schrieb in im
Newsbeitrag: ...
I have been asked if I can make some items that use a steel rod tapering
from 1/4" down to 3/32" over about 7". All I can think of at the moment
is to try and turn it but using a special tailstock centre to allow it
to be placed in tension and offset the tailstock to set the taper as
normal. The taper doesn't have to be accurate, it could be slightly
barreled, but does need to be smooth. Any body have any better ideas.

"David Billington" wrote in message
...
Any body have any better ideas.

If you had a friend with a Swiss-style CNC lathe, you'd be laughing.

Other than that, I wonder if a toolpost grinder would work well. You'd
certainly get an excellent finish. Not sure about deflection though.

Regards,

Robin

In article , David Billington
says...

Due to the slenderness I think it won't work without special support.

Just use a steady, home-made is OK. Turn between centers, don't
rely on the bending to give you good results.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

David Billington wrote:
I have been asked if I can make some items that use a steel rod tapering
from 1/4" down to 3/32" over about 7". All I can think of at the moment
is to try and turn it but using a special tailstock centre to allow it
to be placed in tension and offset the tailstock to set the taper as
normal. The taper doesn't have to be accurate, it could be slightly
barreled, but does need to be smooth. Any body have any better ideas.

Turning it will be a real bitch because you have so much deflection and
you cannot turn it too fast. If you could figure out a way to grind it
on a simple bench grinder you may have more luck. I'm thinking of
something similar to a centerless grinder only with one wheel, the
standard rest supporting the bar, and a fixed stop clamped to the rest
to take the thrust from the grinding wheel. You would have to spin the
rod has you feed it across the wheel. Maybe you could use a slow hand
drill to spin the rod. Now the only thing you need to figure out is how
to get it tapered. I'm thinking that if you had a tapered wedge, maybe
plastic, that was the full length of the bar, and inserted between the
rod and the fixed clamp on the rest, you could feed it with the bar to
increase the grinding depth and generate a taper. Maybe you could slide
a big washer over the bar until it bottom on the hand drill chuck. The
plastic wedge would bottom on the washer and push the wedge along with
the bar while the bar is spinning. Yeah, I know its real hokey but its a
start.

On 11 Feb 2005 15:23:57 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , David Billington
says...

I have been asked if I can make some items that use a steel rod tapering
from 1/4" down to 3/32" over about 7". All I can think of at the moment
is to try and turn it but using a special tailstock centre to allow it
to be placed in tension and offset the tailstock to set the taper as
normal. The taper doesn't have to be accurate, it could be slightly
barreled, but does need to be smooth. Any body have any better ideas.

I think this would typically be done using a taper attachment.

If you don't have a taper attachment, turn it between centers
and set over the tailstock.

Jim
How bout using a tool post grinder with the set over tailstock?
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

David Billington wrote:
I have been asked if I can make some items that use a steel rod tapering
from 1/4" down to 3/32" over about 7". All I can think of at the moment
is to try and turn it but using a special tailstock centre to allow it
to be placed in tension and offset the tailstock to set the taper as
normal. The taper doesn't have to be accurate, it could be slightly
barreled, but does need to be smooth. Any body have any better ideas.


I had to make a small triblet for the jewellery I make. It consists of a
silver-steel rod that tapers from 9mm to 1.8mm over a distance of about
150mm. I turned it on my lathe using nothing but the standard equipment
- I don't have a taper attachment and the top slide travel is only 70mm.

I machined the taper in stages, so the the cutting tool was never more
than 30mm from the chuck.
I centre drilled the end, set the topslide over to the the required
angle, chucked the rod so that only 30mm protruded supported it with a
live centre in the tailstock, then started to cut the taper until it got
too close to the live centre. At this point I continued the cut by
leaving a knob on the end where the centre supported the rod. It got
tricky at this point 'cos I wanted to get the end of the taper as small
as 1.8mm, but, by using a sharp tool that could cut in both directions,
this was finally done. The rod was then extended a further 30mm and,
with suitable light cuts, the taper cutting was continued until it met
the previous one. The process was repeated until there was no more to
cut, then the knob was removed and the surface improved with emery cloth.

It made a very nice triblet that gets a lot of use - in fact I made two,
one for a friend.


--

Regards, Gary Wooding
(To reply by email, change feet to foot in my address)

David Billington wrote in
:

I have been asked if I can make some items that use a steel rod tapering
from 1/4" down to 3/32" over about 7". All I can think of at the moment
is to try and turn it but using a special tailstock centre to allow it
to be placed in tension and offset the tailstock to set the taper as
normal. The taper doesn't have to be accurate, it could be slightly
barreled, but does need to be smooth. Any body have any better ideas.


Radius nosed wheels in your follow rest. Turn between centers.



--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:51:55 +0000, David Billington
wrote:

Harrison M300, no taper attachment and not likely to buy one,
bridgeport. Quantity maybe 4 at the moment and more occasionally. I
would make some simple tooling for it if it didn't take more than a
couple of hours for interest sake. It not really a commercial thing.

Fred R wrote:

What kinds of machines do you have for this job?
How many do you need to make; in other words, how much is it worth to
build some tooling/fixtures?

What I'm toying with is the idea of a custom travel rest with a good
heavy sleeve bearing for the 1/4 stock, sturdy tool on the compound.
Some method* to produce the taper from small end to large end as the
slide moves toward the head end. Take the full cut in one go, like in
a box turning cutter.

* methods could range from CNC to judicious handwheel turning based on
a table of dial marks vs slide travel. An actual taper attachment for
the cross slide would make this a piece of cake, even avoid eating it
all in one whack.

Sounds like fun to someone who doesn't have to do it!

Greetings David,
One thing that may work is to use oversize stock, say 3/8" or 1/2",
and turn it down all at once. If you used Ledloy (12L14) I think it
may work for you. If I was doing it I'd start with 1/2" 12L14 and
centerdrill the end. Then, cut a groove down to 3/32" about 3/16" wide
and about 1/4" back from the centerdrilled end. Or, if you dont like
that put in a very small center, about 1/16" dia. Anyway, after the
parts were all drilled put them back in the machine and turn all at
once. If you use the groove method you will need a narrow tool or you
will need to enlarge the groove so your tool can get all the way down
to 3/32". In case you don't know, 12L14 is a leaded steel alloy that
turns so well some folks call it "Dark Aluminum". After turning cut
off the end if you used the groove method.. BTW, does your tailstock
have enough travel to get the desired taper?
ERS

Unforetunately these are subjected to bending in use and I was aiming
to use EN24T (817M40) (4340?) which I have some of in 1/4" diameter.
Makes it a more challenging project.

Eric R Snow wrote:

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:51:55 +0000, David Billington
wrote:

Harrison M300, no taper attachment and not likely to buy one,
bridgeport. Quantity maybe 4 at the moment and more occasionally. I
would make some simple tooling for it if it didn't take more than a
couple of hours for interest sake. It not really a commercial thing.

Fred R wrote:

What kinds of machines do you have for this job?
How many do you need to make; in other words, how much is it worth to
build some tooling/fixtures?

What I'm toying with is the idea of a custom travel rest with a good
heavy sleeve bearing for the 1/4 stock, sturdy tool on the compound.
Some method* to produce the taper from small end to large end as the
slide moves toward the head end. Take the full cut in one go, like in
a box turning cutter.

* methods could range from CNC to judicious handwheel turning based on
a table of dial marks vs slide travel. An actual taper attachment for
the cross slide would make this a piece of cake, even avoid eating it
all in one whack.

Sounds like fun to someone who doesn't have to do it!

Greetings David,
One thing that may work is to use oversize stock, say 3/8" or 1/2",
and turn it down all at once. If you used Ledloy (12L14) I think it
may work for you. If I was doing it I'd start with 1/2" 12L14 and
centerdrill the end. Then, cut a groove down to 3/32" about 3/16" wide
and about 1/4" back from the centerdrilled end. Or, if you dont like
that put in a very small center, about 1/16" dia. Anyway, after the
parts were all drilled put them back in the machine and turn all at
once. If you use the groove method you will need a narrow tool or you
will need to enlarge the groove so your tool can get all the way down
to 3/32". In case you don't know, 12L14 is a leaded steel alloy that
turns so well some folks call it "Dark Aluminum". After turning cut
off the end if you used the groove method.. BTW, does your tailstock
have enough travel to get the desired taper?
ERS

Maybe i'm missing something but I don't see how a normal follow rest can
be used for this when using an offset tailstock. Due to the offset if
the follow rest was touching at the chuck end then when at the tailstock
end it would provide no support.

Anthony wrote:

David Billington wrote in
k:

I have been asked if I can make some items that use a steel rod tapering
from 1/4" down to 3/32" over about 7". All I can think of at the moment
is to try and turn it but using a special tailstock centre to allow it
to be placed in tension and offset the tailstock to set the taper as
normal. The taper doesn't have to be accurate, it could be slightly
barreled, but does need to be smooth. Any body have any better ideas.


Radius nosed wheels in your follow rest. Turn between centers.

David Billington wrote in
:

Maybe i'm missing something but I don't see how a normal follow rest
can be used for this when using an offset tailstock. Due to the offset
if the follow rest was touching at the chuck end then when at the
tailstock end it would provide no support.


00p....you are correct.

I typed before I gave it much thought..my bad.





--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

David Billington wrote:
Unforetunately these are subjected to bending in use and I was aiming
to use EN24T (817M40) (4340?) which I have some of in 1/4" diameter.
Makes it a more challenging project.

Are you concerned about failure in bending due to exceeding the elastic
limit or non-destructive flexing? What is the stress level? As long as
the stress is well below the yield strength of the steel which alloy you
use doesn't matter. All steels have a modulus of elasticity of
approximately 30E6. If the max. bending stress in your object was (say)
10Kpsi, mild steel would bend the same amount as heat treated 4340 or
High Speed Steel or ...

Ted

Funny, that, that's exactly how I've done it, too.

I was turning tapers, about 380mm long, tapering from 15 to 3.8mm. I
started with some 5/8"round bar and cut the taper 80mm at a time, working
from the small end to the large. I centre drilled the small end for the
rotating centre, not really for support, but to keep it from whipping about.
Worked a treat.

Cheers

John


Wooding wrote:
|| David Billington wrote:
||| I have been asked if I can make some items that use a steel rod
||| tapering from 1/4" down to 3/32" over about 7". All I can think of
||| at the moment is to try and turn it but using a special tailstock
||| centre to allow it to be placed in tension and offset the tailstock
||| to set the taper as normal. The taper doesn't have to be accurate,
||| it could be slightly barreled, but does need to be smooth. Any body
||| have any better ideas.
|||
||
|| I had to make a small triblet for the jewellery I make. It consists
|| of a silver-steel rod that tapers from 9mm to 1.8mm over a distance
|| of about 150mm. I turned it on my lathe using nothing but the
|| standard equipment - I don't have a taper attachment and the top
|| slide travel is only 70mm.
||
|| I machined the taper in stages, so the the cutting tool was never
|| more than 30mm from the chuck.
|| I centre drilled the end, set the topslide over to the the required
|| angle, chucked the rod so that only 30mm protruded supported it with
|| a live centre in the tailstock, then started to cut the taper until
|| it got too close to the live centre. At this point I continued the
|| cut by leaving a knob on the end where the centre supported the rod.
|| It got tricky at this point 'cos I wanted to get the end of the
|| taper as small as 1.8mm, but, by using a sharp tool that could cut
|| in both directions, this was finally done. The rod was then extended
|| a further 30mm and, with suitable light cuts, the taper cutting was
|| continued until it met the previous one. The process was repeated
|| until there was no more to cut, then the knob was removed and the
|| surface improved with emery cloth.
||
|| It made a very nice triblet that gets a lot of use - in fact I made
|| two, one for a friend.
||
||
|| --
||
|| Regards, Gary Wooding
|| (To reply by email, change feet to foot in my address)