Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #11   Report Post  
Old June 18th 20, 10:27 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default filing flats on a socket

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 13:28:29 -0400, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 16:43:35 +0000 (UTC)
maxq wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 07:50:28 -0700, wws wrote:

On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 6:09:37 AM UTC-5, maxq wrote:

[...]

I'm not smart enough to reinvent the wheel:

https://www.harborfreight.com/3-piec...-drive-socket-

caps-67011.html


Can't access the end - tool slides along an axle. Can't drill a hole
crossways either (well you could but it wouldn't help any).


You might want to post the problem, what you're trying to do and see if
anyone has a different solution ;-)



Old freewheel remover, the correct tool is NLA.

The freewheel has an internal splined face for the remover. The remover
has to slide over the axle and into the freewheel top, axle pokes out the
end of the remover.

The socket will get matching splines ground from its outer circumference
at the nut end.

A 12-point 9/16" socket is the right size, plus I can index it off a bolt
head - mount bolt in locked lathe chuck, head out with a strong spring
between the chuck face and the socket (mounted on the bolt with the nut
end outward). Dremel with 5 stacked cutoff disks on carriage, grind a
slot, pull the socket towards the face and switch points, grind the next
slot.

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Old June 18th 20, 10:55 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 1,682
Default filing flats on a socket

On 6/18/2020 4:09 AM, maxq wrote:
I'm making a special tool out of a 3/8 drive socket. It'll have to be
turned by a wrench or gripped by vise jaws. I'll file flats on the
square end.

Should the flats be parallel with the square's sides, or have the point
in the middle? This is a high-torque situation.

High torque?

Start with a quality impact socket, have a hex ground on it, and use a
top name tube wrench. I suspect anything else would be an exercise in
frustration unless you can find an appropriate socket that already has a
hex on it like some spark plug sockets. I would probably not use an
actual spark plug socket. They might make one that can handle more, but
torque specs on plugs are pretty low. Why borrow extra risk on what
sounds like an trapped installation.
  #13   Report Post  
Old June 18th 20, 10:56 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 1,682
Default filing flats on a socket

On 6/18/2020 9:43 AM, maxq wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 07:50:28 -0700, wws wrote:

On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 6:09:37 AM UTC-5, maxq wrote:
I'm making a special tool out of a 3/8 drive socket. It'll have to be
turned by a wrench or gripped by vise jaws. I'll file flats on the
square end.

Should the flats be parallel with the square's sides, or have the point
in the middle? This is a high-torque situation.


I'm not smart enough to reinvent the wheel:

https://www.harborfreight.com/3-piec...-drive-socket-

caps-67011.html


Can't access the end - tool slides along an axle. Can't drill a hole
crossways either (well you could but it wouldn't help any).



You could drill a hole, and use a pin spanner.
  #14   Report Post  
Old June 18th 20, 11:11 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 152
Default filing flats on a socket

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 21:27:59 +0000 (UTC)
maxq wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 13:28:29 -0400, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 16:43:35 +0000 (UTC)
maxq wrote:

[...]
[...]
[...]
[...]
[...]

You might want to post the problem, what you're trying to do and see if
anyone has a different solution ;-)



Old freewheel remover, the correct tool is NLA.

The freewheel has an internal splined face for the remover. The remover
has to slide over the axle and into the freewheel top, axle pokes out the
end of the remover.

The socket will get matching splines ground from its outer circumference
at the nut end.

A 12-point 9/16" socket is the right size, plus I can index it off a bolt
head - mount bolt in locked lathe chuck, head out with a strong spring
between the chuck face and the socket (mounted on the bolt with the nut
end outward). Dremel with 5 stacked cutoff disks on carriage, grind a
slot, pull the socket towards the face and switch points, grind the next
slot.


Yeah, know exactly what you're talking about and probably have the one
you need. Think I have two of them, most likely fit old Shimano
5/6 sprocket free wheels. You're welcome to borrow them if you're near
Grand Rapids, MI area

Before buying them I was able to use a large nut that fit the spline
(sorta) and had the threads drilled out of it. Use the axle nut to hold
it square. Should do that with the real ones too. Have to back off
the axle nut some as you make progress...

It's been a long time since I last messed with the freewheel. Don't
ride much anymore... There are some listed on Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=freewheel socket

In case you haven't checked there yet ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

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Old June 18th 20, 11:14 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 17
Default filing flats on a socket

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 21:27:59 +0000 (UTC), maxq wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 13:28:29 -0400, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 16:43:35 +0000 (UTC)
maxq wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 07:50:28 -0700, wws wrote:

On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 6:09:37 AM UTC-5, maxq wrote:
[...]

I'm not smart enough to reinvent the wheel:

https://www.harborfreight.com/3-piec...-drive-socket-
caps-67011.html


Can't access the end - tool slides along an axle. Can't drill a hole
crossways either (well you could but it wouldn't help any).


You might want to post the problem, what you're trying to do and see if
anyone has a different solution ;-)



Old freewheel remover, the correct tool is NLA.

The freewheel has an internal splined face for the remover. The remover
has to slide over the axle and into the freewheel top, axle pokes out the
end of the remover.

The socket will get matching splines ground from its outer circumference
at the nut end.

A 12-point 9/16" socket is the right size, plus I can index it off a bolt
head - mount bolt in locked lathe chuck, head out with a strong spring
between the chuck face and the socket (mounted on the bolt with the nut
end outward). Dremel with 5 stacked cutoff disks on carriage, grind a
slot, pull the socket towards the face and switch points, grind the next
slot.


I might ask, did you look at the Park Tools catalog?
https://www.parktool.com/category/cassette-freewheel
--
cheers,

John B.



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Old June 18th 20, 11:24 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 5,703
Default filing flats on a socket



"maxq" wrote in message ...

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 13:28:29 -0400, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 16:43:35 +0000 (UTC)
maxq wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 07:50:28 -0700, wws wrote:

On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 6:09:37 AM UTC-5, maxq wrote:

[...]

I'm not smart enough to reinvent the wheel:

https://www.harborfreight.com/3-piec...-drive-socket-

caps-67011.html


Can't access the end - tool slides along an axle. Can't drill a hole
crossways either (well you could but it wouldn't help any).


You might want to post the problem, what you're trying to do and see if
anyone has a different solution ;-)



Old freewheel remover, the correct tool is NLA.

The freewheel has an internal splined face for the remover. The remover
has to slide over the axle and into the freewheel top, axle pokes out the
end of the remover.

The socket will get matching splines ground from its outer circumference
at the nut end.

A 12-point 9/16" socket is the right size, plus I can index it off a bolt
head - mount bolt in locked lathe chuck, head out with a strong spring
between the chuck face and the socket (mounted on the bolt with the nut
end outward). Dremel with 5 stacked cutoff disks on carriage, grind a
slot, pull the socket towards the face and switch points, grind the next
slot.

================================

Something like this?
https://www.thebikesmiths.com/produc...SABEgIcR_D_BwE

A split shaft collar might hold the socket more securely than the spring. If
it won't close on an undersized shank you can grind the joining face without
ruining it for other use. Bolt threads crush and don't run true if the chuck
is tightened on them enough to resist cutting force.

I've milled several similar splined shafts from O-1 drill rod, without
hardening it.

If your lathe has loose change gears an adapter to mount one on the left end
of the spindle for indexing would be useful. I used a 52 tooth change gear
to index and mill 13 splines to fit a motorcycle drive sprocket.

  #17   Report Post  
Old June 18th 20, 11:44 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 152
Default filing flats on a socket

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 18:11:47 -0400
Leon Fisk wrote:

snip
Yeah, know exactly what you're talking about and probably have the one
you need. Think I have two of them, most likely fit old Shimano
5/6 sprocket free wheels.


Actually have four of them but only one splined. Checked an old Shimano
Freewheel that I know it fits and a 9/16 socket will slip inside. A
sharp edged 3/4 nut will catch the splines (12) in the freewheel...
Sounds like you need one a bit smaller in diameter than this

With all the metric and standard nuts around nowadays I would try
modifying one of those first. Even better if you happen to find a
coupling nut that fit, would give a longer length to work with...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

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Old June 19th 20, 02:09 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 3,827
Default filing flats on a socket

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:55:29 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

On 6/18/2020 4:09 AM, maxq wrote:
I'm making a special tool out of a 3/8 drive socket. It'll have to be
turned by a wrench or gripped by vise jaws. I'll file flats on the
square end.

Should the flats be parallel with the square's sides, or have the point
in the middle? This is a high-torque situation.

High torque?

Start with a quality impact socket, have a hex ground on it, and use a
top name tube wrench. I suspect anything else would be an exercise in
frustration unless you can find an appropriate socket that already has a
hex on it like some spark plug sockets. I would probably not use an
actual spark plug socket. They might make one that can handle more, but
torque specs on plugs are pretty low. Why borrow extra risk on what
sounds like an trapped installation.

You got one of those 12 spline 20mm antiques?? Try a 3/4" AF coupling
nut drilled out to fit over the axle if necessary - I believe the
coupler nut for 1/2" allthread is 3/4" 20mm is .787 so it is about
..030" smaller but it might kust be big enough to grab 6 of the 12
splines and get it off.
  #19   Report Post  
Old June 19th 20, 03:40 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 9,022
Default filing flats on a socket

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 21:27:59 +0000 (UTC), maxq wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 13:28:29 -0400, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 16:43:35 +0000 (UTC)
maxq wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 07:50:28 -0700, wws wrote:

On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 6:09:37 AM UTC-5, maxq wrote:
[...]

I'm not smart enough to reinvent the wheel:

https://www.harborfreight.com/3-piec...-drive-socket-
caps-67011.html


Can't access the end - tool slides along an axle. Can't drill a hole
crossways either (well you could but it wouldn't help any).


You might want to post the problem, what you're trying to do and see if
anyone has a different solution ;-)



Old freewheel remover, the correct tool is NLA.

The freewheel has an internal splined face for the remover. The remover
has to slide over the axle and into the freewheel top, axle pokes out the
end of the remover.

The socket will get matching splines ground from its outer circumference
at the nut end.

A 12-point 9/16" socket is the right size, plus I can index it off a bolt
head - mount bolt in locked lathe chuck, head out with a strong spring
between the chuck face and the socket (mounted on the bolt with the nut
end outward). Dremel with 5 stacked cutoff disks on carriage, grind a
slot, pull the socket towards the face and switch points, grind the next
slot.


Got mine from Ebay for $1.50 or something. Dunno bout the old style,
but they might have one. https://is.gd/NJnreZ or https://is.gd/CJH93A
BUT, if a 9/16" socket works, just weld a flat bar across the 3/8 sq
opening and you're good. (drill for axle protrusion if necessary)

--
There is nothing more frightening than ignorance in action.

--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
  #20   Report Post  
Old June 19th 20, 03:42 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 9,022
Default filing flats on a socket

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 10:59:15 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

On 6/18/2020 10:50 AM, wws wrote:
I'm not smart enough to reinvent the wheel:

https://www.harborfreight.com/3-piec...aps-67011.html


That's one of those things that are so cool that I buy them and then
never use them. LOL


I'm guilty of the same practice. I shop at $1 Gewjaws R Us.

--
There is nothing more frightening than ignorance in action.

--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


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