On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 10:55:12 AM UTC-7, Neon John wrote:
On Sat, 01 Jul 2017 23:05:44 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

They are
sized LT 225/R75/16, 10 ply, load range E

Any suggestion as to brand etc etc etc would be greatly appreciated.
Ive not had to buy heavy duty tires in decades...so its way the hell
outside of my expertise.

Gunner, 10 ply tires for a van, even if you load a ton into it? Goodyear Wrangler HT Tire LT225/75R16/10 are $125 a pop at Wally World.


I just put a set of 6 Cooper tires that size on my motor home. I'm
extremely happy with the ride quality. $145 each mounted and
balanced.

I liked the set of Coopers I had on my Corvair but wasn't as happy with their longevity.

Sorry, Gunner, no heavy-duty tire knowledge from me. Clare will likely have some info.


Any idea of how to determine how old a tire is? I figure date of
manufacture is marked somewhere on the tire....how do I find it and
decode it?

Sure. Some brands have the date in plain English on the outer side
wall. The rest have a code date on the inner sidewall.

Nah. You put those tires on the wrong side of the car, John.
Well, unless they were Aussie import tires.


http://www.neon-john.com

Got any newer pics of that diesel genset? That's cool. What's the weight?


http://www.tnduction.com

That Roy 1500 has some beefy cooling fins on it. Only half the heat goes into the coil, eh? (Kidding. I know that the heat in the object is created by the eddy currents from the coil.)

On Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:36:06 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


http://www.neon-john.com

Got any newer pics of that diesel genset? That's cool. What's the weight?

No more pix. I finished the rig, then gave it to a friend of mine.
Frankly, it was too noisy for my tastes. I never weighed the thing
but it was pretty heavy. I'm 6'7", 260 lbs and it took me a pretty
hard lunge to get the hand truck up on its wheels.


http://www.tnduction.com

That Roy 1500 has some beefy cooling fins on it. Only half the heat goes into the coil, eh?
(Kidding. I know that the heat in the object is created by the eddy currents from the coil.)

I've done calorimetry on the unit. It's about 80% efficient, wall to
output. Or was. I found some new SiC transistors that cut the
silicon losses to almost nothing. Now the variable speed fan barely
comes off idle.

The end-of-lifed the microprocessor I used so I made the decision to
discontinue sales while I design a whole new unit using an ARM
processor. The housing for this unit is a (knockoff) Pelican case.
Tons of cooling, connections to the work cables via welding
connectors, water resistant and several other upgrades.

I'm also having custom made neoprene insulated Litz wire manufactured.
That will get rid of a LOT of losses compared to welding cables.

John

John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 11:01:29 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:36:06 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


http://www.neon-john.com

Got any newer pics of that diesel genset? That's cool. What's the weight?

No more pix. I finished the rig, then gave it to a friend of mine.
Frankly, it was too noisy for my tastes. I never weighed the thing
but it was pretty heavy. I'm 6'7", 260 lbs and it took me a pretty
hard lunge to get the hand truck up on its wheels.

I thought it might be a heavy bastid, between the cast iron and the
copper windings. It was still too loud after moving to the larger
muffler?


http://www.tnduction.com

That Roy 1500 has some beefy cooling fins on it. Only half the heat goes into the coil, eh?
(Kidding. I know that the heat in the object is created by the eddy currents from the coil.)

I've done calorimetry on the unit. It's about 80% efficient, wall to
output. Or was. I found some new SiC transistors that cut the
silicon losses to almost nothing. Now the variable speed fan barely
comes off idle.

Good. Any idea how efficient it is now?


The end-of-lifed the microprocessor I used so I made the decision to
discontinue sales while I design a whole new unit using an ARM
processor.

It was time for a redesign anyway, right? I find that I want to
change things after the first, and then after about the 12th build,
either to change materials, efficiency, or assembly methods.

Did you go with a straight chip and build your own board around it, or
use a board (Raspberry Pi, Arduino, Pine64, etc.) and build around
that? I guess you probably wouldn't need all the display and I/O from
the boards and an induction heater wouldn't take much of an
instruction set.


The housing for this unit is a (knockoff) Pelican case.

A real Pelican case would have doubled the cost of the final unit,
right?


Tons of cooling, connections to the work cables via welding
connectors, water resistant and several other upgrades.

Bueno bwana.


I'm also having custom made neoprene insulated Litz wire manufactured.
That will get rid of a LOT of losses compared to welding cables.

I had to look up "Litz wire". Better eddy currents, eh? Interesting.
Better waterproofing? groan

-
If ever the Time should come, when vain and aspiring

Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government,

our Country will stand in Need of its experienced

Patriots to prevent its Ruin.
-- Samuel Adams

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 13:13:25 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


No more pix. I finished the rig, then gave it to a friend of mine.
Frankly, it was too noisy for my tastes. I never weighed the thing
but it was pretty heavy. I'm 6'7", 260 lbs and it took me a pretty
hard lunge to get the hand truck up on its wheels.

I thought it might be a heavy bastid, between the cast iron and the
copper windings. It was still too loud after moving to the larger
muffler?

The muffler made the exhaust inaudible over the intake roar. So I got
a large air cleaner housing and fitted it with a Hemholtz resonator.
Since the engine was constant speed, the resonator knocked almost all
the noise.

What remained was the power stroke detonations, amplified by the air
cooled fins, the roar of the cooling fan and just general noise coming
from the crankcase area. I tried jacketing the crankcase with lead
sheeting (one of the best noise dampeners there is) and I pressed lead
balls between the fins. That left the residual diesel knock and the
cooling fan noise which was really loud.

I finally wore out working on it and about that time a friend
expressed a need for a large construction generator so I gave it to
him. Still in use as far as I know.

John



http://www.tnduction.com

That Roy 1500 has some beefy cooling fins on it. Only half the heat goes into the coil, eh?
(Kidding. I know that the heat in the object is created by the eddy currents from the coil.)

I've done calorimetry on the unit. It's about 80% efficient, wall to
output. Or was. I found some new SiC transistors that cut the
silicon losses to almost nothing. Now the variable speed fan barely
comes off idle.

Good. Any idea how efficient it is now?


The end-of-lifed the microprocessor I used so I made the decision to
discontinue sales while I design a whole new unit using an ARM
processor.

It was time for a redesign anyway, right? I find that I want to
change things after the first, and then after about the 12th build,
either to change materials, efficiency, or assembly methods.

Did you go with a straight chip and build your own board around it, or
use a board (Raspberry Pi, Arduino, Pine64, etc.) and build around
that? I guess you probably wouldn't need all the display and I/O from
the boards and an induction heater wouldn't take much of an
instruction set.


The housing for this unit is a (knockoff) Pelican case.

A real Pelican case would have doubled the cost of the final unit,
right?


Tons of cooling, connections to the work cables via welding
connectors, water resistant and several other upgrades.

Bueno bwana.


I'm also having custom made neoprene insulated Litz wire manufactured.
That will get rid of a LOT of losses compared to welding cables.

I had to look up "Litz wire". Better eddy currents, eh? Interesting.
Better waterproofing? groan

-
If ever the Time should come, when vain and aspiring

Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government,

our Country will stand in Need of its experienced

Patriots to prevent its Ruin.
-- Samuel Adams
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 17:38:46 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 13:13:25 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


No more pix. I finished the rig, then gave it to a friend of mine.
Frankly, it was too noisy for my tastes. I never weighed the thing
but it was pretty heavy. I'm 6'7", 260 lbs and it took me a pretty
hard lunge to get the hand truck up on its wheels.

I thought it might be a heavy bastid, between the cast iron and the
copper windings. It was still too loud after moving to the larger
muffler?

The muffler made the exhaust inaudible over the intake roar. So I got
a large air cleaner housing and fitted it with a Hemholtz resonator.
Since the engine was constant speed, the resonator knocked almost all
the noise.

What remained was the power stroke detonations, amplified by the air
cooled fins, the roar of the cooling fan and just general noise coming
from the crankcase area. I tried jacketing the crankcase with lead
sheeting (one of the best noise dampeners there is) and I pressed lead
balls between the fins. That left the residual diesel knock and the
cooling fan noise which was really loud.

Yeah, you wove in some quiet from every angle, it seems.


I finally wore out working on it and about that time a friend
expressed a need for a large construction generator so I gave it to
him. Still in use as far as I know.

Wow, 400 hours of work and you gave it away? I've always hated the
noise gensets put out, too. Compressors are bad enough, so I'm
working on a housing for mine now. (Project 143 or so on the priority
list now.)

-
If ever the Time should come, when vain and aspiring

Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government,

our Country will stand in Need of its experienced

Patriots to prevent its Ruin.
-- Samuel Adams

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 15:52:20 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Wow, 400 hours of work and you gave it away? I've always hated the
noise gensets put out, too. Compressors are bad enough, so I'm
working on a housing for mine now. (Project 143 or so on the priority
list now.)

Well, he did drive his cube truck down from NY and spend 2 weeks
helping me prepare my house for my incoming bride. This involved
hauling more than a ton of metal to the scrap metal yard, disposing of
over 1000 phonograph records, several truckloads of garbage and the
cube van full of "stuff". Then building built-in bookcases and other
furniture.

I was ill at the time with a paralyzed lung and on oxygen so I mostly
watched. (Miraculous robotic surgery fixed that lung so I now breathe
almost normally.) So when he said that he'd like to have that
generator, I said "Load 'er up!". I think I got a pretty good deal
for that gift :-)

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 15:52:20 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Wow, 400 hours of work and you gave it away? I've always hated the
noise gensets put out, too. Compressors are bad enough, so I'm
working on a housing for mine now. (Project 143 or so on the priority
list now.)

I hate the sound of running machinery. Because up here in the
mountains the power goes off for longer than 24 hours about every
month, I bought and installed Generac's 10 kW automatic standby
generator system. It works perfectly. EXCEPT. It uses a B&S
Vanguard twin cylinder air-cooled engine and a 2 pole alternator. That
means 3600 RPM roar. Intolerably loud.

My interim solution was to buy 4 sheets of pre-fabricated wooden
fencing and 4 sheets of foil-backed Styrofoam sheathing and build an
open-top enclosure around the unit. I fabricated a duct out of
ductboard (compressed fiberglass) to carry the hot exhaust air up and
out so the thing would not overheat.

That improved things a lot but the thing will still awaken me when it
starts at night. Plus it's just a little too small. The automatic
transfer switch has 3 levels of load shedding. I have to shed the
water heater if the AC starts.

So I'm building the ultimate. I have procured a 15kVA foot mount 4
pole military surplus belt driven generator. And I've procured the V6
engine, exhaust and electronics out of a late model Ford pickup truck.

I used to consult to Ford on special projects so I was able to get the
performance data on the engine and the PCM's source code.

The generator is an 1800 RPM affair. The performance data shows that
the engine can provide about 25 HP at 1400 RPM. So the generator will
be geared up a little. 1400 RPM is barely above idle on this
water-cooled and QUIET engine. And the Brake Specific Fuel
Consumption on that engine at that speed is phenomenal. I'll convert
it over to propane but keep the emission controls. Nothing like being
awakened in the middle of the night by the CO alarm going off because
the air got heavy and trapped the current generator's exhaust.

This engine is fly-by-wire (servo on the throttle plate) so my
governor will be the cruise control. I've designed a little
microprocessor board that listens to the generator's frequency,
multiplies that by a factor to satisfy the PCM's road speed sensor
input and a few other things such as detecting power loss and sending
a start signal to the PCM. The PCM controls the starter motor,
engaging it up to 5 times before locking out. The generator has its
own voltage control module.

This engine does not use an engine-driven cooling fan. All done by
giant pancake fans. Variable speed to boot. So little noise there.
The battery will be charged and maintained by a Progressive Dynamics
40 amp Intellipower so no generator noise.

The only remaining belt-driven accessory is the water pump. I'm
looking at a racing electric pump to replace it. Then there will be
only the 60 Hz alternator rotor that is turning.

The entire assembly will be housed in a small pre-fab building with
louvers to let air in and the radiators mounted over a hole in the
other side to exhaust air. I'm going to run 2 radiators in hydraulic
series, located one above the other. I hope that with this
configuration, natural circulation will circulate the coolant and
require minimal pumping.

The inside of the building and especially the metal roof will be lined
with spun lead as is used to soundproof sound booths. My goal is to
have this thing be so quiet that it'll be difficult to hear it run
even when nearby. I have a Generac QuietPack RV generator that almost
meets that criteria so I think that it will be possible.

As the project stands right now, I've done all the procurement and
have written some of the code. The engine and generator will be built
on a C-channel frame that is partially embedded in the concrete slap.
I'm going to fill the concrete with about 300 lbs of #8 lead shot to
further help dampen the ringing.

My lung problem has rendered me slow and plodding so I figure I have a
year to go on this project. I'll be putting progress reports and
photos on my blog, http://www.johndearmond.com.

John

John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 18:31:30 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 15:52:20 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Wow, 400 hours of work and you gave it away? I've always hated the
noise gensets put out, too. Compressors are bad enough, so I'm
working on a housing for mine now. (Project 143 or so on the priority
list now.)

I hate the sound of running machinery. Because up here in the
mountains the power goes off for longer than 24 hours about every
month, I bought and installed Generac's 10 kW automatic standby
generator system. It works perfectly. EXCEPT. It uses a B&S
Vanguard twin cylinder air-cooled engine and a 2 pole alternator. That
means 3600 RPM roar. Intolerably loud.

My interim solution was to buy 4 sheets of pre-fabricated wooden
fencing and 4 sheets of foil-backed Styrofoam sheathing and build an
open-top enclosure around the unit. I fabricated a duct out of
ductboard (compressed fiberglass) to carry the hot exhaust air up and
out so the thing would not overheat.

That improved things a lot but the thing will still awaken me when it
starts at night. Plus it's just a little too small. The automatic
transfer switch has 3 levels of load shedding. I have to shed the
water heater if the AC starts.

So I'm building the ultimate. I have procured a 15kVA foot mount 4
pole military surplus belt driven generator. And I've procured the V6
engine, exhaust and electronics out of a late model Ford pickup truck.

I used to consult to Ford on special projects so I was able to get the
performance data on the engine and the PCM's source code.

The generator is an 1800 RPM affair. The performance data shows that
the engine can provide about 25 HP at 1400 RPM. So the generator will
be geared up a little. 1400 RPM is barely above idle on this
water-cooled and QUIET engine. And the Brake Specific Fuel
Consumption on that engine at that speed is phenomenal. I'll convert
it over to propane but keep the emission controls. Nothing like being
awakened in the middle of the night by the CO alarm going off because
the air got heavy and trapped the current generator's exhaust.

This engine is fly-by-wire (servo on the throttle plate) so my
governor will be the cruise control. I've designed a little
microprocessor board that listens to the generator's frequency,
multiplies that by a factor to satisfy the PCM's road speed sensor
input and a few other things such as detecting power loss and sending
a start signal to the PCM. The PCM controls the starter motor,
engaging it up to 5 times before locking out. The generator has its
own voltage control module.

This engine does not use an engine-driven cooling fan. All done by
giant pancake fans. Variable speed to boot. So little noise there.
The battery will be charged and maintained by a Progressive Dynamics
40 amp Intellipower so no generator noise.

The only remaining belt-driven accessory is the water pump. I'm
looking at a racing electric pump to replace it. Then there will be
only the 60 Hz alternator rotor that is turning.

The entire assembly will be housed in a small pre-fab building with
louvers to let air in and the radiators mounted over a hole in the
other side to exhaust air. I'm going to run 2 radiators in hydraulic
series, located one above the other. I hope that with this
configuration, natural circulation will circulate the coolant and
require minimal pumping.

The inside of the building and especially the metal roof will be lined
with spun lead as is used to soundproof sound booths. My goal is to
have this thing be so quiet that it'll be difficult to hear it run
even when nearby. I have a Generac QuietPack RV generator that almost
meets that criteria so I think that it will be possible.

As the project stands right now, I've done all the procurement and
have written some of the code. The engine and generator will be built
on a C-channel frame that is partially embedded in the concrete slap.
I'm going to fill the concrete with about 300 lbs of #8 lead shot to
further help dampen the ringing.

My lung problem has rendered me slow and plodding so I figure I have a
year to go on this project. I'll be putting progress reports and
photos on my blog, http://www.johndearmond.com.

John

John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

Just as a comment, internal combustion engines emit a certain amount
of noise from the block itself and on sailing yachts it is quite
common to see the "gen-set" enclosed in an "insulated" box which uses
sound insulation and in some cases even lead sheet to deaden the
noise.

See
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-c...tor-sets-roode
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 18:31:30 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 15:52:20 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Wow, 400 hours of work and you gave it away? I've always hated the
noise gensets put out, too. Compressors are bad enough, so I'm
working on a housing for mine now. (Project 143 or so on the priority
list now.)

I hate the sound of running machinery. Because up here in the
mountains the power goes off for longer than 24 hours about every
month, I bought and installed Generac's 10 kW automatic standby
generator system. It works perfectly. EXCEPT. It uses a B&S
Vanguard twin cylinder air-cooled engine and a 2 pole alternator. That
means 3600 RPM roar. Intolerably loud.

Next genset you buy..get a 1800 RPM genny. They last forever and can
be had really....really cheaply on Ebay, government auctions and so
forth. And get a diesel one.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 19:39:52 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 18:31:30 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 15:52:20 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Wow, 400 hours of work and you gave it away? I've always hated the
noise gensets put out, too. Compressors are bad enough, so I'm
working on a housing for mine now. (Project 143 or so on the priority
list now.)

I hate the sound of running machinery. Because up here in the
mountains the power goes off for longer than 24 hours about every
month, I bought and installed Generac's 10 kW automatic standby
generator system. It works perfectly. EXCEPT. It uses a B&S
Vanguard twin cylinder air-cooled engine and a 2 pole alternator. That
means 3600 RPM roar. Intolerably loud.

Next genset you buy..get a 1800 RPM genny. They last forever and can
be had really....really cheaply on Ebay, government auctions and so
forth. And get a diesel one.

Sorry John..jumped too quick.




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 16:59:08 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 15:52:20 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Wow, 400 hours of work and you gave it away? I've always hated the
noise gensets put out, too. Compressors are bad enough, so I'm
working on a housing for mine now. (Project 143 or so on the priority
list now.)

Well, he did drive his cube truck down from NY and spend 2 weeks
helping me prepare my house for my incoming bride. This involved
hauling more than a ton of metal to the scrap metal yard, disposing of
over 1000 phonograph records, several truckloads of garbage and the
cube van full of "stuff". Then building built-in bookcases and other
furniture.

I was ill at the time with a paralyzed lung and on oxygen so I mostly
watched. (Miraculous robotic surgery fixed that lung so I now breathe
almost normally.) So when he said that he'd like to have that
generator, I said "Load 'er up!". I think I got a pretty good deal
for that gift :-)

Yes, you did. Glad to hear you got better, too.

-
If ever the Time should come, when vain and aspiring

Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government,

our Country will stand in Need of its experienced

Patriots to prevent its Ruin.
-- Samuel Adams

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 18:31:30 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 15:52:20 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Wow, 400 hours of work and you gave it away? I've always hated the
noise gensets put out, too. Compressors are bad enough, so I'm
working on a housing for mine now. (Project 143 or so on the priority
list now.)

I hate the sound of running machinery. Because up here in the
mountains the power goes off for longer than 24 hours about every
month, I bought and installed Generac's 10 kW automatic standby
generator system. It works perfectly. EXCEPT. It uses a B&S
Vanguard twin cylinder air-cooled engine and a 2 pole alternator. That
means 3600 RPM roar. Intolerably loud.

They're ghastly.


My interim solution was to buy 4 sheets of pre-fabricated wooden
fencing and 4 sheets of foil-backed Styrofoam sheathing and build an
open-top enclosure around the unit. I fabricated a duct out of
ductboard (compressed fiberglass) to carry the hot exhaust air up and
out so the thing would not overheat.

I'm looking at a pair of C-shaped shells to quiet my compressor.
Carpeting over OSB/ply/MDF does a surprising amount of quieting. By
leaving the large opening, air can flow. I have some 1/4" closed cell
foam which I may tack under there, too. It's amazing how much noise
comes from the intake on a compressor.


That improved things a lot but the thing will still awaken me when it
starts at night. Plus it's just a little too small. The automatic
transfer switch has 3 levels of load shedding. I have to shed the
water heater if the AC starts.

That's something I'll have to work out with the solar setup. With
only 1kW, I'll have to shed the


So I'm building the ultimate. I have procured a 15kVA foot mount 4
pole military surplus belt driven generator. And I've procured the V6
engine, exhaust and electronics out of a late model Ford pickup truck.

That should provide enough HP.


I used to consult to Ford on special projects so I was able to get the
performance data on the engine and the PCM's source code.

That's cool.


The generator is an 1800 RPM affair. The performance data shows that
the engine can provide about 25 HP at 1400 RPM. So the generator will
be geared up a little. 1400 RPM is barely above idle on this
water-cooled and QUIET engine. And the Brake Specific Fuel
Consumption on that engine at that speed is phenomenal.


Very interesting. 1,800rpm should be far enough off idle to give you
a few more hp, I believe, and farther still under load. It would be
nice not to have to add a transmission to it. I guess you'll find out
once you put the puzzle together.


I'll convert
it over to propane but keep the emission controls. Nothing like being
awakened in the middle of the night by the CO alarm going off because
the air got heavy and trapped the current generator's exhaust.

Surprise! Alarms, even 3 blocks away, in the middle of the night are
never fun.


This engine is fly-by-wire (servo on the throttle plate) so my
governor will be the cruise control. I've designed a little
microprocessor board that listens to the generator's frequency,
multiplies that by a factor to satisfy the PCM's road speed sensor
input and a few other things such as detecting power loss and sending
a start signal to the PCM. The PCM controls the starter motor,
engaging it up to 5 times before locking out. The generator has its
own voltage control module.

Hah, cool! I was wondering how you removed that pesky 25mph cruise
limiter.


This engine does not use an engine-driven cooling fan. All done by
giant pancake fans. Variable speed to boot. So little noise there.
The battery will be charged and maintained by a Progressive Dynamics
40 amp Intellipower so no generator noise.

I opted for the variable speed DC fan motor on the HVAC system I put
in the house in 2002, and the difference in sound is phenomenal. I'm
sure the pancake fan is much quieter than the belt driven fan, but at
that rpm, I doubt it will be working too hard.

Consider ducting at least some of the building's intake air through
the radiators for a natural flow.


The only remaining belt-driven accessory is the water pump. I'm
looking at a racing electric pump to replace it. Then there will be
only the 60 Hz alternator rotor that is turning.

All good.


The entire assembly will be housed in a small pre-fab building with
louvers to let air in and the radiators mounted over a hole in the
other side to exhaust air. I'm going to run 2 radiators in hydraulic
series, located one above the other. I hope that with this
configuration, natural circulation will circulate the coolant and
require minimal pumping.

Yup. How far removed is the building from your house/bedroom?


The inside of the building and especially the metal roof will be lined
with spun lead as is used to soundproof sound booths. My goal is to
have this thing be so quiet that it'll be difficult to hear it run
even when nearby. I have a Generac QuietPack RV generator that almost
meets that criteria so I think that it will be possible.

That's the only way to run a generator: silently.


As the project stands right now, I've done all the procurement and
have written some of the code. The engine and generator will be built
on a C-channel frame that is partially embedded in the concrete slap.
I'm going to fill the concrete with about 300 lbs of #8 lead shot to
further help dampen the ringing.

Don't -even- tell the inspector about that. They're psychotically
allergic to lead. g


My lung problem has rendered me slow and plodding so I figure I have a
year to go on this project. I'll be putting progress reports and
photos on my blog, http://www.johndearmond.com.

I'll definitely check that out.

Breathe on, Brother. Slow and steady is how I'm starting to learn to
live, too.

-
If ever the Time should come, when vain and aspiring

Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government,

our Country will stand in Need of its experienced

Patriots to prevent its Ruin.
-- Samuel Adams

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 18:31:30 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 15:52:20 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Wow, 400 hours of work and you gave it away? I've always hated the
noise gensets put out, too. Compressors are bad enough, so I'm
working on a housing for mine now. (Project 143 or so on the
priority
list now.)

I hate the sound of running machinery. Because up here in the
mountains the power goes off for longer than 24 hours about every
month, I bought and installed Generac's 10 kW automatic standby
generator system. It works perfectly. EXCEPT. It uses a B&S
Vanguard twin cylinder air-cooled engine and a 2 pole alternator.
That
means 3600 RPM roar. Intolerably loud.

My interim solution was to buy 4 sheets of pre-fabricated wooden
fencing and 4 sheets of foil-backed Styrofoam sheathing and build an
open-top enclosure around the unit. I fabricated a duct out of
ductboard (compressed fiberglass) to carry the hot exhaust air up
and
out so the thing would not overheat.

That improved things a lot but the thing will still awaken me when
it
starts at night. Plus it's just a little too small. The automatic
transfer switch has 3 levels of load shedding. I have to shed the
water heater if the AC starts.

So I'm building the ultimate. I have procured a 15kVA foot mount 4
pole military surplus belt driven generator. And I've procured the
V6
engine, exhaust and electronics out of a late model Ford pickup
truck.

I used to consult to Ford on special projects so I was able to get
the
performance data on the engine and the PCM's source code.

The generator is an 1800 RPM affair. The performance data shows
that
the engine can provide about 25 HP at 1400 RPM. So the generator
will
be geared up a little. 1400 RPM is barely above idle on this
water-cooled and QUIET engine. And the Brake Specific Fuel
Consumption on that engine at that speed is phenomenal. I'll
convert
it over to propane but keep the emission controls. Nothing like
being
awakened in the middle of the night by the CO alarm going off
because
the air got heavy and trapped the current generator's exhaust.

This engine is fly-by-wire (servo on the throttle plate) so my
governor will be the cruise control. I've designed a little
microprocessor board that listens to the generator's frequency,
multiplies that by a factor to satisfy the PCM's road speed sensor
input and a few other things such as detecting power loss and
sending
a start signal to the PCM. The PCM controls the starter motor,
engaging it up to 5 times before locking out. The generator has its
own voltage control module.

This engine does not use an engine-driven cooling fan. All done by
giant pancake fans. Variable speed to boot. So little noise there.
The battery will be charged and maintained by a Progressive Dynamics
40 amp Intellipower so no generator noise.

The only remaining belt-driven accessory is the water pump. I'm
looking at a racing electric pump to replace it. Then there will be
only the 60 Hz alternator rotor that is turning.

The entire assembly will be housed in a small pre-fab building with
louvers to let air in and the radiators mounted over a hole in the
other side to exhaust air. I'm going to run 2 radiators in
hydraulic
series, located one above the other. I hope that with this
configuration, natural circulation will circulate the coolant and
require minimal pumping.

The inside of the building and especially the metal roof will be
lined
with spun lead as is used to soundproof sound booths. My goal is to
have this thing be so quiet that it'll be difficult to hear it run
even when nearby. I have a Generac QuietPack RV generator that
almost
meets that criteria so I think that it will be possible.

As the project stands right now, I've done all the procurement and
have written some of the code. The engine and generator will be
built
on a C-channel frame that is partially embedded in the concrete
slap.
I'm going to fill the concrete with about 300 lbs of #8 lead shot to
further help dampen the ringing.

My lung problem has rendered me slow and plodding so I figure I have
a
year to go on this project. I'll be putting progress reports and
photos on my blog, http://www.johndearmond.com.

John

John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

Just as a comment, internal combustion engines emit a certain amount
of noise from the block itself and on sailing yachts it is quite
common to see the "gen-set" enclosed in an "insulated" box which
uses
sound insulation and in some cases even lead sheet to deaden the
noise.

See
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-c...tor-sets-roode
--
Cheers,

John B.


I made a take-down sound reducing enclosure for a portable Coleman
generator from two 2' by 4' fire-rated acoustic ceiling tiles, cut to
2' x 2' since it's a small generator.

The faces of the tiles are fairly durable but the edges needed
sheetmetal channel rims to minimize crumbling. I had 2" wide steel
trim strips from an old aboveground pool and a brake to bend them on,
otherwise aluminum flashing bent around wood forms should do well
enough.
http://makezine.com/2015/06/24/skill...h-sheet-metal/
I prefer to hammer on a block of wood held against the bent flange.
This gives nice square corners.

The corners of the back panel are reinforced with aluminum angle
brackets that extend out far enough for the other three panels to nest
in for transportation and storage, mainly to protect the panels from
rubbing together.

It assembles with thumbscrews through the back that screw into
sheetmetal clip nuts in the rear corners of the sides. The top is
unattached for easier access to the generator, and the front is open
to let exhaust out and air in, a 4 sided cube. In bad weather it can
be covered with something waterproof like pieces of corrugated
roofing.

It faces back from behind the house, unfortunately toward possible
sound reflectors so I didn't measure the reduction in decibels, only
in how far away I could recognize it as a generator. I can't hear the
genny from the street or neighbors' houses if there's traffic within
1/4 mile.

While testing it I tried an exhaust extension of fiberglass pipe
insulation which barely made a difference, the noise comes from the
engine.
-jsw

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 19:39:52 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


Next genset you buy..get a 1800 RPM genny. They last forever and can
be had really....really cheaply on Ebay, government auctions and so
forth. And get a diesel one.

No diesel for me. Too much fuel maintenance plus diesel engine parts
are expensive. Plus I can't stand the odor of diesel exhaust.

Propane is the way to go for emergency standby. Propane is
maintenance free. Plus one can get it delivered much more easily here
in the South where oil heat is very uncommon.

I have a 500 gallon propane tank that is about to be converted to
underground since some bullet dings have appeared in my above-ground
tank.

My current generator consumes 1/4 gallon/hr at half load. So I can
run 2000 hours or 83 days continuously. In an extended outage, I only
run the genset about half of each day. Enough to keep the
refrigeration cold and to charge my whole-house UPS.

I have my house divided into "vital bus" and "balance of plant" loads,
to use nuclear terminology. Vital bus include lighting, refrigeration
and the computers. My UPS will run the Vital Bus for 24 hours. The
battery bank charges in about 5 hours during the time the genset is
running.

If I had a diesel genset, I'd have to worry about water collection,
fungus growth, waxing and so on. I get my fuel in the spring when
prices are lowest. If I bought diesel then, I'd get high paraffin
summer fuel which would require an anti-waxing additive to protect it
during winter months. Propane is fill-it-and-forget-it.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:12:58 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 19:39:52 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


Next genset you buy..get a 1800 RPM genny. They last forever and can
be had really....really cheaply on Ebay, government auctions and so
forth. And get a diesel one.

No diesel for me. Too much fuel maintenance plus diesel engine parts
are expensive. Plus I can't stand the odor of diesel exhaust.

Fuel maintainence is easy and cheap. Diesel engine parts cost is
cheap..when you consider the time/life part of diesel engines. When
you replace a part on a diesel..its less than than 1/4 as often as a
gasoline engine and may cost the same or 2x as much..hence you are
saving a fair amount of cash.

Propane is the way to go for emergency standby. Propane is
maintenance free. Plus one can get it delivered much more easily here
in the South where oil heat is very uncommon.

Ever heard of Bio Propane? Neither have I. However..bio diesel can
be CHEAPLY made by you yourself.

I have a 500 gallon propane tank that is about to be converted to
underground since some bullet dings have appeared in my above-ground
tank.

Good idea!

My current generator consumes 1/4 gallon/hr at half load. So I can
run 2000 hours or 83 days continuously. In an extended outage, I only
run the genset about half of each day. Enough to keep the
refrigeration cold and to charge my whole-house UPS.

So you are good for about 6 months. Period

I have my house divided into "vital bus" and "balance of plant" loads,
to use nuclear terminology. Vital bus include lighting, refrigeration
and the computers. My UPS will run the Vital Bus for 24 hours. The
battery bank charges in about 5 hours during the time the genset is
running.

Good!

If I had a diesel genset, I'd have to worry about water collection,
fungus growth, waxing and so on. I get my fuel in the spring when
prices are lowest. If I bought diesel then, I'd get high paraffin
summer fuel which would require an anti-waxing additive to protect it
during winter months. Propane is fill-it-and-forget-it.

All the issues with diesel are easy resolved and cheaply. Ask the
military and all the hundreds of thousands of diesel backup generators
used in commercial buildings how its done.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 06:41:31 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:12:58 -0400, Neon John wrote:

My current generator consumes 1/4 gallon/hr at half load. So I can
run 2000 hours or 83 days continuously. In an extended outage, I only
run the genset about half of each day. Enough to keep the
refrigeration cold and to charge my whole-house UPS.

All the issues with diesel are easy resolved and cheaply.

So if it's easy and cheap, and since you've been talking about
generators for years, then surely by now you have a diesel/UPS setup
to match John's, right? Did you get a permit for your diesel tank? Did
you build a custom muffler, or do you find that the dog barking drowns
out the genny? Did you save the neighborhood yet by doling out diesel
fuel during an earthquake?

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 06:41:31 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


Fuel maintainence is easy and cheap. Diesel engine parts cost is
cheap..when you consider the time/life part of diesel engines. When
you replace a part on a diesel..its less than than 1/4 as often as a
gasoline engine and may cost the same or 2x as much..hence you are
saving a fair amount of cash.

I have an SAE paper here that pretty convincingly makes the case that
the life of an engine can be expressed in the total number of
revolutions it has made. Diesels have a reputation for being reliable
because they have traditional turned at lower RPM to deliver the
required power. A diesel driving an 1800 RPM generator turns the same
number of total RPM as a gas 1800 RPM generator so the gap narrows and
probably closes.

Besides, engines designed with CAD software and manufactured with CAM
machinery achieve vastly closer tolerances than the engines of old.
300,000 miles on a gas engine isn't unusual these days.

Example: My neighbor is the wine expert for the regional liquor
distributor. He's on the road all the time. He purchases a Ford
F-150 pickup truck at the same time I did. He opted for the V6
EcoBoost. Totally defying my expectations, he told me this weekend
that his truck has just turned 300,000 miles and still uses no oil.

Propane is the way to go for emergency standby. Propane is
maintenance free. Plus one can get it delivered much more easily here
in the South where oil heat is very uncommon.

Ever heard of Bio Propane? Neither have I.

Of course. It's called wood gas and is made by heating wood
anaerobically and then optionally filtering out the tar. The result
is a mixture of methane, some higher hydrocarbons and CO.

A couple of years ago a friend of mine built a bio-fuel plant for a
local chicken processor. It hydrolyzes chicken feathers and feeds a
bank of generators that supply most of the plant's electrical needs.

I designed a large induction heater to heat the reaction chamber very
rapidly.
However..bio diesel can
be CHEAPLY made by you yourself.

BTDT. Have less than zero interest in repeating the experiment.

I should note that the "free" fryer oil obtained from restaurants, the
most common feedstock, is usually stolen. The recycling company that
supplies the grease receptacle signs a contract with the restaurant
operator that transfers title to the oil when it is drained from the
fryers.

So when a restaurant operator gives away fryer oil, he is giving away
something he doesn't own. IOW, the oil is stolen from its rightful
owner.

I know this based on running a chain of BBQ restaurants for 12 years.
The recyclers are getting very aggressive about this, posting signs on
many receptacles warning of prosecution for oil theft.

Even if it were legal, I have less than zero interest in doing any
work to make my generator run. I'm in my 60s now and stuff like that
no longer interests me.

Building this 15kW generator is still interesting but once built, I
expect it to run unattended for years. At least until I have to go
into an independent living home :-)

All the issues with diesel are easy resolved and cheaply. Ask the
military and all the hundreds of thousands of diesel backup generators
used in commercial buildings how its done.

But that means that I have to so something and that's more than the
zero maintenance that propane storage requires.

The military went to a diesel-like fuel (JP-something) to simplify
logistics and to reduce the fire hazard of storing and transporting
gasoline in war zones. They didn't change away from gasoline for any
performance reason.

If you look closely at large standby generators such as those which
power hospitals, you'll find that many of them run on natural gas.
Besides, regardless of the fuel used, such institutions have something
called a maintenance staff or contractor. I don't and I don't intend
to fritter my time away doing maintenance on my system.

It's a matter of choice. I choose a technology that requires little
more than an oil change every few years. Others such as yourself may
find the process of building and maintaining a diesel system
interesting. To each his own. That's the beauty of free choice.

Incidentally, there is a guy in Cleveland, TN (John Stafford, 423
479-7895) who bought up hundreds of the military gas generators when
the military did the change-out. He has them lines "shoulder to
shoulder" on an approximately 10 acre laydown yard. He's who I bought
my 15kW generator head from. He is VERY affordable.

I considered a 15kW mil surplus generator but it was too noisy.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

On Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 9:40:17 AM UTC-4, Neon John wrote:





John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN


I have thought emergency generators. but we are only a couple of miles from a substation and have only had the power go out about once in 8 years. And it was only out for a few hours.

So I have only come up with emergency lighting. And it is very simple. Just a couple of 12 volt batteries and some 12 volt automotive LED's.

But if I were going to have an emergency generator, I would try to find a fork lift engine that runs on propane and connect that to a 1800 rpm generator head. The engine and generator could be in a closed sound enclosure with the radiator and a fan in more or less the open.

Your remark about engines running about the same number of revolutions made me think of an engine at a pipeline pumping station I saw when I was still going to high school. To the best of my memory, it was a two hundred hp V8. No big deal there, except it ran at about 200 rpm and was about 8 feet long.

Dan

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 9:40:17 AM UTC-4, Neon John wrote:

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN


I have thought emergency generators. but we are only a couple of
miles from a substation and have only had the power go out about once
in 8 years. And it was only out for a few hours.

So I have only come up with emergency lighting. And it is very
simple. Just a couple of 12 volt batteries and some 12 volt
automotive LED's.

=================

During long outages I've found that one thing I needed badly was a
lantern I could walk around with and put down or hang up to free both
hands to dig stuff out of storage. It didn't have to be very bright
but had to be small enough to sit on any nearby flat spot.

Solar driveway light heads with easily replaced AA NiCads actually
worked pretty well. Their circle of dim light was better than a small,
bright flashlight beam that ruined my night vision to see outside the
lit spot.

This is really too big and bulky for the purpose:
https://www.harborfreight.com/all-pu...ern-94740.html

Also extension cords on the floor are a hazard in the dark.

-jsw