On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 10:46:38 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 06:52:12 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 10:35:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On 8 Apr 2016 01:56:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2016-04-08, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2016 08:06:07 +0700, John B.

wrote:

On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:04:11 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

[ ... ]

The .25 ACP sounds like it should be about what you need. It
has a
small rim and an extractor groove ("semi-rimmed"), so you can
seat it
on the rim.

If I remember the .25 ACP has a primer. It might be mentioned
that the
quick draw crowd that uses/used wax bullets used a rifle primer
and no
powder to fire wax bullets. If he is trying to match the
ballistics of
a .22 CB it might be a solution.

Maybe. I don't especially like those things -- I've fired .32
S&W
Short and Long; .32 H&R Magnum; .38 Spl.; and .45 ACP with wax
bullets
and primers, using both a special wax made for the job and
plain
paraffin. They shot OK in my Ruger SSM, but not in my DA
revolvers or
my 1911 Colt. They either broke up or gave unreliable accuracy.
But
maybe some people have had better luck with them.

I've only tired that (with the wax sold for the task) with .38
special, and with the .22 Jet. The latter I used in my apartment
to get
roaches which would retreat into the corner of the ceiling of the
bathroom, and wave their feelers at me, saying "You can't swat us
here
-- to much obstruction." (Maybe so -- but the wax load did quite
well
for the job. I didn't have any really long range shots, but what
I did
use it for it was sufficiently accurate. :-)

Note that I always did the "cookie cutter" loading when the wax
was comfortably warm. (Shortly after melting and pouring it.)
Cold
would be likely to fracture during the process.

I've been saving wax from Gouda cheese, and I think that it
might work well for the task, too. Perhaps it is time to try
that
again.

Ohmigod. You should write an article about it if it works: "Gouda
Bullets for Indoor Roach Hunting" g I thought I'd try melting
some
beeswax with the paraffin, but I lost interest in the whole thing.
It's very illegal here and my wife could hear even the primer-only
loads from outdoors.


I also got roaches who ran back between the bottles of
developing chemicals in the kitchen -- but for that I used a
hypodermic
syringe loaded with 1,1,1 Trichloroethane (otherwise used for
developing
printed circuit boards. :-) No harm to the bottles, but one touch
of the
stuff and the roach was on its back. A water pistol might have
been
more convenient, but the stuff would dissolve the pistol before I
could
bring it to bear. :-)

You have a fresh take on very small-game hunting there, Don....


I'll tell you something that worked really well, though: a tiny
pinch
of Red Dot and a round ball, pressed down in the case. I only
tried
that with the .38, but it shot straight. It was too loud for my
basement, though. One neighbor's house is about 8 feet away.
g

Hmm ... I've got some intersting "bullets" which work well for
that in .38 special. The bullet is black plastic (Delrin,
perhaps?) and
the cartridge is red plastic with a primer pocket for large
pistol
primers, instead of the small pistol primers appropriate for .38
Spl.
Target was mounted on a large cardboard box, with an old towel
hanging
inside it to shed energy and drop them to the bottom of the box.
They
*would* go through the box cardboard, and would probably be also
quite
painful if you got hit with one.

I've seen those plastic/plastic rounds in a catalog. Again, I have
a
serious noise and legal problem with it.


I'm actually one bullet short -- perhaps I should try turning up
replacements from Delrin?

Another article! d8-)

--
Ed Huntress


Enjoy,
DoN.

And then there's this "a salt" weapon. http://bugasalt.com/ . Clever
idea.

It looks like fun, but man, that's a lot of money to shoot bugs.

--
Ed Huntress (notorious cheapskate)

A squirt of diluted soap solution drops bugs quickly.
http://www.instructables.com/id/FREE...R-WORKS-GREAT/
"...one good spritz will wet the fly's wings and he will go down.
Another spray and he'll be dead in a few seconds."

Perched flies don't see rapid motion until too late. As your
wing-shooting aim improves you can tighten the spray pattern.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/ratio-w...ent-82232.html

--jsw

Ohmigod. That sets a new bar for "small-game hunting." g

There may be a few other old farts here who remember Corey Ford's
column in _Field & Stream_, "The Lower Forty," from the '50s and '60s.
One column I'll never forget was about his hunting buddies --
cheapskates, for the most part -- looking for a way to practice
wingshooting before the upland game season opened.

They settled on flying insects -- dragon flies, flying grasshoppers,
and so on -- which they shot with .22 shot loads. It was hilarious.

There are several "Lower Forty" anthologies, but I don't know if that
column is contained in any of them. It would be worth a look if you
ever see them in a book store.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 10:46:38 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 06:52:12 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 10:35:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On 8 Apr 2016 01:56:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2016-04-08, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2016 08:06:07 +0700, John B.

wrote:

On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:04:11 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

[ ... ]

The .25 ACP sounds like it should be about what you need. It
has a
small rim and an extractor groove ("semi-rimmed"), so you can
seat it
on the rim.

If I remember the .25 ACP has a primer. It might be mentioned
that the
quick draw crowd that uses/used wax bullets used a rifle primer
and no
powder to fire wax bullets. If he is trying to match the
ballistics of
a .22 CB it might be a solution.

Maybe. I don't especially like those things -- I've fired .32
S&W
Short and Long; .32 H&R Magnum; .38 Spl.; and .45 ACP with wax
bullets
and primers, using both a special wax made for the job and
plain
paraffin. They shot OK in my Ruger SSM, but not in my DA
revolvers or
my 1911 Colt. They either broke up or gave unreliable accuracy.
But
maybe some people have had better luck with them.

I've only tired that (with the wax sold for the task) with .38
special, and with the .22 Jet. The latter I used in my apartment
to get
roaches which would retreat into the corner of the ceiling of the
bathroom, and wave their feelers at me, saying "You can't swat us
here
-- to much obstruction." (Maybe so -- but the wax load did quite
well
for the job. I didn't have any really long range shots, but what
I did
use it for it was sufficiently accurate. :-)

Note that I always did the "cookie cutter" loading when the wax
was comfortably warm. (Shortly after melting and pouring it.)
Cold
would be likely to fracture during the process.

I've been saving wax from Gouda cheese, and I think that it
might work well for the task, too. Perhaps it is time to try
that
again.

Ohmigod. You should write an article about it if it works: "Gouda
Bullets for Indoor Roach Hunting" g I thought I'd try melting
some
beeswax with the paraffin, but I lost interest in the whole thing.
It's very illegal here and my wife could hear even the primer-only
loads from outdoors.


I also got roaches who ran back between the bottles of
developing chemicals in the kitchen -- but for that I used a
hypodermic
syringe loaded with 1,1,1 Trichloroethane (otherwise used for
developing
printed circuit boards. :-) No harm to the bottles, but one touch
of the
stuff and the roach was on its back. A water pistol might have
been
more convenient, but the stuff would dissolve the pistol before I
could
bring it to bear. :-)

You have a fresh take on very small-game hunting there, Don....


I'll tell you something that worked really well, though: a tiny
pinch
of Red Dot and a round ball, pressed down in the case. I only
tried
that with the .38, but it shot straight. It was too loud for my
basement, though. One neighbor's house is about 8 feet away.
g

Hmm ... I've got some intersting "bullets" which work well for
that in .38 special. The bullet is black plastic (Delrin,
perhaps?) and
the cartridge is red plastic with a primer pocket for large
pistol
primers, instead of the small pistol primers appropriate for .38
Spl.
Target was mounted on a large cardboard box, with an old towel
hanging
inside it to shed energy and drop them to the bottom of the box.
They
*would* go through the box cardboard, and would probably be also
quite
painful if you got hit with one.

I've seen those plastic/plastic rounds in a catalog. Again, I have
a
serious noise and legal problem with it.


I'm actually one bullet short -- perhaps I should try turning up
replacements from Delrin?

Another article! d8-)

--
Ed Huntress


Enjoy,
DoN.

And then there's this "a salt" weapon. http://bugasalt.com/ . Clever
idea.

It looks like fun, but man, that's a lot of money to shoot bugs.

--
Ed Huntress (notorious cheapskate)

A squirt of diluted soap solution drops bugs quickly.
http://www.instructables.com/id/FREE...R-WORKS-GREAT/
"...one good spritz will wet the fly's wings and he will go down.
Another spray and he'll be dead in a few seconds."

I'll have to try that one. It could solve a problem.

--
Ed Huntress


Perched flies don't see rapid motion until too late. As your
wing-shooting aim improves you can tighten the spray pattern.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/ratio-w...ent-82232.html

--jsw

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 10:46:38 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 06:52:12 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 10:35:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On 8 Apr 2016 01:56:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2016-04-08, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2016 08:06:07 +0700, John B.

wrote:

On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:04:11 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

[ ... ]

The .25 ACP sounds like it should be about what you need. It
has a
small rim and an extractor groove ("semi-rimmed"), so you can
seat it
on the rim.

If I remember the .25 ACP has a primer. It might be mentioned
that the
quick draw crowd that uses/used wax bullets used a rifle primer
and no
powder to fire wax bullets. If he is trying to match the
ballistics of
a .22 CB it might be a solution.

Maybe. I don't especially like those things -- I've fired .32
S&W
Short and Long; .32 H&R Magnum; .38 Spl.; and .45 ACP with wax
bullets
and primers, using both a special wax made for the job and
plain
paraffin. They shot OK in my Ruger SSM, but not in my DA
revolvers or
my 1911 Colt. They either broke up or gave unreliable accuracy.
But
maybe some people have had better luck with them.

I've only tired that (with the wax sold for the task) with .38
special, and with the .22 Jet. The latter I used in my apartment
to get
roaches which would retreat into the corner of the ceiling of the
bathroom, and wave their feelers at me, saying "You can't swat us
here
-- to much obstruction." (Maybe so -- but the wax load did quite
well
for the job. I didn't have any really long range shots, but what
I did
use it for it was sufficiently accurate. :-)

Note that I always did the "cookie cutter" loading when the wax
was comfortably warm. (Shortly after melting and pouring it.)
Cold
would be likely to fracture during the process.

I've been saving wax from Gouda cheese, and I think that it
might work well for the task, too. Perhaps it is time to try
that
again.

Ohmigod. You should write an article about it if it works: "Gouda
Bullets for Indoor Roach Hunting" g I thought I'd try melting
some
beeswax with the paraffin, but I lost interest in the whole thing.
It's very illegal here and my wife could hear even the primer-only
loads from outdoors.


I also got roaches who ran back between the bottles of
developing chemicals in the kitchen -- but for that I used a
hypodermic
syringe loaded with 1,1,1 Trichloroethane (otherwise used for
developing
printed circuit boards. :-) No harm to the bottles, but one touch
of the
stuff and the roach was on its back. A water pistol might have
been
more convenient, but the stuff would dissolve the pistol before I
could
bring it to bear. :-)

You have a fresh take on very small-game hunting there, Don....


I'll tell you something that worked really well, though: a tiny
pinch
of Red Dot and a round ball, pressed down in the case. I only
tried
that with the .38, but it shot straight. It was too loud for my
basement, though. One neighbor's house is about 8 feet away.
g

Hmm ... I've got some intersting "bullets" which work well for
that in .38 special. The bullet is black plastic (Delrin,
perhaps?) and
the cartridge is red plastic with a primer pocket for large
pistol
primers, instead of the small pistol primers appropriate for .38
Spl.
Target was mounted on a large cardboard box, with an old towel
hanging
inside it to shed energy and drop them to the bottom of the box.
They
*would* go through the box cardboard, and would probably be also
quite
painful if you got hit with one.

I've seen those plastic/plastic rounds in a catalog. Again, I have
a
serious noise and legal problem with it.


I'm actually one bullet short -- perhaps I should try turning up
replacements from Delrin?

Another article! d8-)

--
Ed Huntress


Enjoy,
DoN.

And then there's this "a salt" weapon. http://bugasalt.com/ . Clever
idea.

It looks like fun, but man, that's a lot of money to shoot bugs.

--
Ed Huntress (notorious cheapskate)

A squirt of diluted soap solution drops bugs quickly.
http://www.instructables.com/id/FREE-BUG-KILLER-WORKS-GREAT/
"...one good spritz will wet the fly's wings and he will go down.
Another spray and he'll be dead in a few seconds."

I'll have to try that one. It could solve a problem.

Windex also works. Don't know if it's the alcohol, the drop of soap,
or both. Doesn't stain the wall.

Whatever it is, the key is to wet the waxy body, so fluid is pulled
into the air holes by surface tension, blocking air exchange.

..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiracle

Joe Gwinn

On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 11:42:56 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 10:46:38 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 06:52:12 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 10:35:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On 8 Apr 2016 01:56:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2016-04-08, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2016 08:06:07 +0700, John B.

wrote:

On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:04:11 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

[ ... ]

The .25 ACP sounds like it should be about what you need. It
has a
small rim and an extractor groove ("semi-rimmed"), so you can
seat it
on the rim.

If I remember the .25 ACP has a primer. It might be mentioned
that the
quick draw crowd that uses/used wax bullets used a rifle primer
and no
powder to fire wax bullets. If he is trying to match the
ballistics of
a .22 CB it might be a solution.

Maybe. I don't especially like those things -- I've fired .32
S&W
Short and Long; .32 H&R Magnum; .38 Spl.; and .45 ACP with wax
bullets
and primers, using both a special wax made for the job and
plain
paraffin. They shot OK in my Ruger SSM, but not in my DA
revolvers or
my 1911 Colt. They either broke up or gave unreliable accuracy.
But
maybe some people have had better luck with them.

I've only tired that (with the wax sold for the task) with .38
special, and with the .22 Jet. The latter I used in my apartment
to get
roaches which would retreat into the corner of the ceiling of the
bathroom, and wave their feelers at me, saying "You can't swat us
here
-- to much obstruction." (Maybe so -- but the wax load did quite
well
for the job. I didn't have any really long range shots, but what
I did
use it for it was sufficiently accurate. :-)

Note that I always did the "cookie cutter" loading when the wax
was comfortably warm. (Shortly after melting and pouring it.)
Cold
would be likely to fracture during the process.

I've been saving wax from Gouda cheese, and I think that it
might work well for the task, too. Perhaps it is time to try
that
again.

Ohmigod. You should write an article about it if it works: "Gouda
Bullets for Indoor Roach Hunting" g I thought I'd try melting
some
beeswax with the paraffin, but I lost interest in the whole thing.
It's very illegal here and my wife could hear even the primer-only
loads from outdoors.


I also got roaches who ran back between the bottles of
developing chemicals in the kitchen -- but for that I used a
hypodermic
syringe loaded with 1,1,1 Trichloroethane (otherwise used for
developing
printed circuit boards. :-) No harm to the bottles, but one touch
of the
stuff and the roach was on its back. A water pistol might have
been
more convenient, but the stuff would dissolve the pistol before I
could
bring it to bear. :-)

You have a fresh take on very small-game hunting there, Don....


I'll tell you something that worked really well, though: a tiny
pinch
of Red Dot and a round ball, pressed down in the case. I only
tried
that with the .38, but it shot straight. It was too loud for my
basement, though. One neighbor's house is about 8 feet away.
g

Hmm ... I've got some intersting "bullets" which work well for
that in .38 special. The bullet is black plastic (Delrin,
perhaps?) and
the cartridge is red plastic with a primer pocket for large
pistol
primers, instead of the small pistol primers appropriate for .38
Spl.
Target was mounted on a large cardboard box, with an old towel
hanging
inside it to shed energy and drop them to the bottom of the box.
They
*would* go through the box cardboard, and would probably be also
quite
painful if you got hit with one.

I've seen those plastic/plastic rounds in a catalog. Again, I have
a
serious noise and legal problem with it.


I'm actually one bullet short -- perhaps I should try turning up
replacements from Delrin?

Another article! d8-)

--
Ed Huntress


Enjoy,
DoN.

And then there's this "a salt" weapon. http://bugasalt.com/ . Clever
idea.

It looks like fun, but man, that's a lot of money to shoot bugs.

--
Ed Huntress (notorious cheapskate)

A squirt of diluted soap solution drops bugs quickly.
http://www.instructables.com/id/FREE-BUG-KILLER-WORKS-GREAT/
"...one good spritz will wet the fly's wings and he will go down.
Another spray and he'll be dead in a few seconds."

I'll have to try that one. It could solve a problem.

Windex also works. Don't know if it's the alcohol, the drop of soap,
or both. Doesn't stain the wall.

Whatever it is, the key is to wet the waxy body, so fluid is pulled
into the air holes by surface tension, blocking air exchange.

.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiracle

Joe Gwinn

Gunner should add this to his database of terminal ballistics.
Everyone needs a hobby. d8-(

--
Ed Huntress

looks to be a lot of bidding actrivity for SKS on gun broker
http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-R...x?Keywords=sks

On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 11:42:56 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 10:46:38 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 06:52:12 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 10:35:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On 8 Apr 2016 01:56:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2016-04-08, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2016 08:06:07 +0700, John B.

wrote:

On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:04:11 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

[ ... ]

The .25 ACP sounds like it should be about what you need. It
has a
small rim and an extractor groove ("semi-rimmed"), so you can
seat it
on the rim.

If I remember the .25 ACP has a primer. It might be mentioned
that the
quick draw crowd that uses/used wax bullets used a rifle primer
and no
powder to fire wax bullets. If he is trying to match the
ballistics of
a .22 CB it might be a solution.

Maybe. I don't especially like those things -- I've fired .32
S&W
Short and Long; .32 H&R Magnum; .38 Spl.; and .45 ACP with wax
bullets
and primers, using both a special wax made for the job and
plain
paraffin. They shot OK in my Ruger SSM, but not in my DA
revolvers or
my 1911 Colt. They either broke up or gave unreliable accuracy.
But
maybe some people have had better luck with them.

I've only tired that (with the wax sold for the task) with .38
special, and with the .22 Jet. The latter I used in my apartment
to get
roaches which would retreat into the corner of the ceiling of the
bathroom, and wave their feelers at me, saying "You can't swat us
here
-- to much obstruction." (Maybe so -- but the wax load did quite
well
for the job. I didn't have any really long range shots, but what
I did
use it for it was sufficiently accurate. :-)

Note that I always did the "cookie cutter" loading when the wax
was comfortably warm. (Shortly after melting and pouring it.)
Cold
would be likely to fracture during the process.

I've been saving wax from Gouda cheese, and I think that it
might work well for the task, too. Perhaps it is time to try
that
again.

Ohmigod. You should write an article about it if it works: "Gouda
Bullets for Indoor Roach Hunting" g I thought I'd try melting
some
beeswax with the paraffin, but I lost interest in the whole thing.
It's very illegal here and my wife could hear even the primer-only
loads from outdoors.


I also got roaches who ran back between the bottles of
developing chemicals in the kitchen -- but for that I used a
hypodermic
syringe loaded with 1,1,1 Trichloroethane (otherwise used for
developing
printed circuit boards. :-) No harm to the bottles, but one touch
of the
stuff and the roach was on its back. A water pistol might have
been
more convenient, but the stuff would dissolve the pistol before I
could
bring it to bear. :-)

You have a fresh take on very small-game hunting there, Don....


I'll tell you something that worked really well, though: a tiny
pinch
of Red Dot and a round ball, pressed down in the case. I only
tried
that with the .38, but it shot straight. It was too loud for my
basement, though. One neighbor's house is about 8 feet away.
g

Hmm ... I've got some intersting "bullets" which work well for
that in .38 special. The bullet is black plastic (Delrin,
perhaps?) and
the cartridge is red plastic with a primer pocket for large
pistol
primers, instead of the small pistol primers appropriate for .38
Spl.
Target was mounted on a large cardboard box, with an old towel
hanging
inside it to shed energy and drop them to the bottom of the box.
They
*would* go through the box cardboard, and would probably be also
quite
painful if you got hit with one.

I've seen those plastic/plastic rounds in a catalog. Again, I have
a
serious noise and legal problem with it.


I'm actually one bullet short -- perhaps I should try turning up
replacements from Delrin?

Another article! d8-)

--
Ed Huntress


Enjoy,
DoN.

And then there's this "a salt" weapon. http://bugasalt.com/ . Clever
idea.

It looks like fun, but man, that's a lot of money to shoot bugs.

--
Ed Huntress (notorious cheapskate)

A squirt of diluted soap solution drops bugs quickly.
http://www.instructables.com/id/FREE-BUG-KILLER-WORKS-GREAT/
"...one good spritz will wet the fly's wings and he will go down.
Another spray and he'll be dead in a few seconds."

I'll have to try that one. It could solve a problem.

Windex also works. Don't know if it's the alcohol, the drop of soap,
or both. Doesn't stain the wall.

Whatever it is, the key is to wet the waxy body, so fluid is pulled
into the air holes by surface tension, blocking air exchange.

.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiracle

Joe Gwinn
Lot more fun was the elastic band rifle I built in 1979. Due to
circumstances beyond our control (our government shut down all
projects for the construction season), our office staff were left with
nothing to do for about four months. Our office was located in a 40+
year old ex military building and the facility manager decreed that
insect control in our building was our problem. We had a plentiful
supply of rather large elastics, so a somewhat rifle shaped device was
built with an achor point at the front end, a trigger mechanism and a
large sighting device/splatter shield. with three elasics linked end
to end any fly withinfour feet became a quarter sized splat. Our
secretary soon laid down the law and we became fully employed cleaning
windows and light fixtures but is was fun while it lasted!
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

On 8 Apr 2016 03:51:32 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-04-08, Ed Huntress wrote:
On 8 Apr 2016 01:56:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-04-08, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2016 08:06:07 +0700, John B.
wrote:

[ ... ]

I've only tired that (with the wax sold for the task) with .38
special, and with the .22 Jet. The latter I used in my apartment to get
roaches which would retreat into the corner of the ceiling of the
bathroom, and wave their feelers at me, saying "You can't swat us here
-- to much obstruction." (Maybe so -- but the wax load did quite well
for the job. I didn't have any really long range shots, but what I did
use it for it was sufficiently accurate. :-)

Note that I always did the "cookie cutter" loading when the wax
was comfortably warm. (Shortly after melting and pouring it.) Cold
would be likely to fracture during the process.

I've been saving wax from Gouda cheese, and I think that it
might work well for the task, too. Perhaps it is time to try that
again.

Ohmigod. You should write an article about it if it works: "Gouda
Bullets for Indoor Roach Hunting" g

No chance to test it now. The hunting was back when I lived in
an apartment -- and as soon as one of the other 11 apartments in the
building got sprayed, the roaches would flood to all the other
apartments. (They really should have done all the apartments at once.

I used a Navy surplus bug bomb just before moving to the house
with my (then to be) wife, and we haven't seen any here since we moved
in -- about 1975. :-)

Maybe the resident cats keep them out of sight. I know that
they occasionally find a cricket and play with it until there are parts
scattered around.

I thought I'd try melting some
beeswax with the paraffin, but I lost interest in the whole thing.
It's very illegal here and my wife could hear even the primer-only
loads from outdoors.

Hmm ... could it be told from the sound of a mousetrap snapping
from outside? But if it is illegal there, probably not a good idea
anyway.

Why illegal? The connection to "quick-draw"? I didn't have
that connection when I got mine -- just for indoor target shooting. And
Virginia is a lot more relaxed about firearms. :-)

I also got roaches who ran back between the bottles of
developing chemicals in the kitchen -- but for that I used a hypodermic
syringe loaded with 1,1,1 Trichloroethane (otherwise used for developing
printed circuit boards. :-) No harm to the bottles, but one touch of the
stuff and the roach was on its back. A water pistol might have been
more convenient, but the stuff would dissolve the pistol before I could
bring it to bear. :-)

You have a fresh take on very small-game hunting there, Don....

Had -- back when I had targets. Just as glad to not have them,
now. :-)

I'll tell you something that worked really well, though: a tiny pinch
of Red Dot and a round ball, pressed down in the case. I only tried
that with the .38, but it shot straight. It was too loud for my
basement, though. One neighbor's house is about 8 feet away. g

Hmm ... I've got some intersting "bullets" which work well for
that in .38 special. The bullet is black plastic (Delrin, perhaps?) and
the cartridge is red plastic with a primer pocket for large pistol
primers, instead of the small pistol primers appropriate for .38 Spl.
Target was mounted on a large cardboard box, with an old towel hanging
inside it to shed energy and drop them to the bottom of the box. They
*would* go through the box cardboard, and would probably be also quite
painful if you got hit with one.

I've seen those plastic/plastic rounds in a catalog. Again, I have a
serious noise and legal problem with it.

A pity. Perhaps move to someplace where things are a bit more
relaxed? :-)

I'm actually one bullet short -- perhaps I should try turning up
replacements from Delrin?

Another article! d8-)

Hardly worth it -- unless it has serious problems to be
overcome. I wish that I could get similar ones for the .22 Jet (S&W
revolver, not the later Thompson Contender barrels, which take higher
pressures.

Enjoy,
DoN.

Its very easy to turn them out of nylon and hollow base them to allow
for a bit of expansion. They can be fired out of your normal brass
cases, many many times

Gunner

On 8 Apr 2016 00:15:07 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-04-06, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 17:50:53 -0700, wrote:

[ ... ]

You're biting off a big bite. I also designed a cartridge and got
pretty far along with it. It was a .32 S&W Long necked down to .22
caliber. I made my own cherry and started to ream a chamber before I
was cautioned by a wildcatter I met in the ASSRA. He told me the walls
were 'way too thin on that cartridge for what I wanted to do.

Hmm ... ever seen the .22 Remington Jet? A .357 Magnum necked
down to .22. Long taper and a problem backing out in a revolver -- it
tends to bind the cylinder from free rotation unless you really clean
all oil out of the cylinder bores and off the case.

Enjoy,
DoN.

Had one..a conversion of the Ruger 256 Hawkeye. Worked well enough.
Guy saw it..made me an offer Id have been an utter idiot to turn
down..sold it. Bought a pickup truck with the proceeds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Hawkeye

Gunner

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 00:29:08 -0400, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 4/7/2016 8:10 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote:
On 4/6/2016 5:42 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
The 6.5 Grendel isnt a short legged round. I consistantly hit 12"
disks at 800 meters with a buddies 80% AR. Usually in a 4"-6" group.
It impressed the hell out of me when I first picked it up and laid
down on the mat.

Gunner


It's capable of even better with no wind and the planets aligned. There is
a 500 yd range not too far away and has golf carts. I'm
looking at the 6mm AR Turbo also. I sold two Mini-14's and have a
SKS for sale to finance such.

http://www.6mmar.com/6mmAR_Turbo.html

Out of curiosity , what's an SKS worth these days ? Say a Russian pre-ban
with full kit , including bayonet and cleaning kit and oil/solvent container
.


Exactly what I have. It hasn't sold priced at $350

There are a metric ****load of them out there. It should sell for
between $225 and $275 in most places. In the South..they are going
for between $175-$225. Chicoms...about the same..maybe a little less.

Out here in the West..they have largely surpassed the 3030 as the
truck gun/utility rifle. Now the ARs are taking their place..but
mostly as a symbol of rebellion. Shrug

I bought my first 5 SKSs, for $75 each, with a 440rd spam can of ammo
with each rifle, about 20 yrs ago. All Russians. Sold several, added
some Chicoms, sold, added, sold...they are decent utility rifles.

Id ask $250 and it would probably sell quick enough. They arent
"worth" a hell of a lot..but are damned good utility weapons to have
on hand.

Gunner

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 20:36:43 -0400, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 4/8/2016 3:16 PM, Steve W. wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote:
On 4/7/2016 8:10 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote:
On 4/6/2016 5:42 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
The 6.5 Grendel isnt a short legged round. I consistantly hit 12"
disks at 800 meters with a buddies 80% AR. Usually in a 4"-6" group.
It impressed the hell out of me when I first picked it up and laid
down on the mat.

Gunner

It's capable of even better with no wind and the planets aligned.
There is
a 500 yd range not too far away and has golf carts. I'm
looking at the 6mm AR Turbo also. I sold two Mini-14's and have a
SKS for sale to finance such.

http://www.6mmar.com/6mmAR_Turbo.html
Out of curiosity , what's an SKS worth these days ? Say a Russian
pre-ban
with full kit , including bayonet and cleaning kit and oil/solvent
container
.


Exactly what I have. It hasn't sold priced at $350

Where do you have it listed? I just disposed of a Chinese copy for
$450.00 !



Where did *YOU* list it, I only put a flier up on the BB at my club.

$450? HOLY **** Batman!! Does he need any other weapons? Id be
tickled to death selling him my junkers!!

Gunner

On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 16:48:29 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

looks to be a lot of bidding actrivity for SKS on gun broker
http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-R...x?Keywords=sks

Most of the pricy ones are the detachable magazine versions.

But they are going higher than Ive ever seen, including at the
gunshows. Poor mans AR/AK. Work just fine

Gunner

On 4/9/2016 5:48 PM, Karl Townsend wrote:
looks to be a lot of bidding actrivity for SKS on gun broker
http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-R...x?Keywords=sks


It might be well worth it to list it there.

On 4/9/2016 11:29 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
Had one..a conversion of the Ruger 256 Hawkeye. Worked well enough.
Guy saw it..made me an offer Id have been an utter idiot to turn
down..sold it. Bought a pickup truck with the proceeds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Hawkeye

Gunner



Never heard of a Hawkeye before...HOW COOL!

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 01:29:48 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 4/9/2016 11:29 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
Had one..a conversion of the Ruger 256 Hawkeye. Worked well enough.
Guy saw it..made me an offer Id have been an utter idiot to turn
down..sold it. Bought a pickup truck with the proceeds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Hawkeye

Never heard of a Hawkeye before...HOW COOL!

I wonder if seeing or handling something like this is what gave the
gentle nudge to the guys at Taurus to develop the Judge.

Your old Ohiobrush email is no longer working. Please send update if
you wish me to have it.

--
If you want to make your dreams come true,
the first thing you have to do is wake up!
--anon

On 4/10/2016 10:49 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Your old Ohiobrush email is no longer working. Please send update if
you wish me to have it.


I've sent you a bunch of e-mails from an address I use, I'll send again.

On 2016-04-10, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 00:29:08 -0400, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 4/7/2016 8:10 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

[ ... ]

Out of curiosity , what's an SKS worth these days ? Say a Russian pre-ban
with full kit , including bayonet and cleaning kit and oil/solvent container
.


Exactly what I have. It hasn't sold priced at $350

[ ... ]

I bought my first 5 SKSs, for $75 each, with a 440rd spam can of ammo
with each rifle, about 20 yrs ago. All Russians. Sold several, added
some Chicoms, sold, added, sold...they are decent utility rifles.

You've had quite a few, then. Have you ever seen one with the
bayonet blued? That is what I have, FWIW. Just my luck as one of a
group at work who ordered some at the same time. All the other had plain
bayonets. All Russian manufacture and old enough, so they could keep
the folding bayonets.

Id ask $250 and it would probably sell quick enough. They arent
"worth" a hell of a lot..but are damned good utility weapons to have
on hand.

Agreed.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2016-04-09, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 06:52:12 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 10:35:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On 8 Apr 2016 01:56:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[ ... ]

I've only tired that (with the wax sold for the task) with .38
special, and with the .22 Jet. The latter I used in my apartment to get
roaches which would retreat into the corner of the ceiling of the
bathroom, and wave their feelers at me, saying "You can't swat us here
-- too much obstruction." (Maybe so -- but the wax load did quite well
for the job. I didn't have any really long range shots, but what I did
use it for it was sufficiently accurate. :-)

[ ... ]

And then there's this "a salt" weapon. http://bugasalt.com/ . Clever idea.

It looks like fun, but man, that's a lot of money to shoot bugs.

Interesting. I wonder how difficult it would be to modify a
pump type pellet pistol to fire a charge of salt? (Part of the problem,
given the use at the grill, is avoiding anything which coucl contaminate
the food being prepared. :-)

Enjoy
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 11 Apr 2016 01:52:04 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-04-10, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 00:29:08 -0400, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 4/7/2016 8:10 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

[ ... ]

Out of curiosity , what's an SKS worth these days ? Say a Russian pre-ban
with full kit , including bayonet and cleaning kit and oil/solvent container
.


Exactly what I have. It hasn't sold priced at $350

[ ... ]

I bought my first 5 SKSs, for $75 each, with a 440rd spam can of ammo
with each rifle, about 20 yrs ago. All Russians. Sold several, added
some Chicoms, sold, added, sold...they are decent utility rifles.

You've had quite a few, then. Have you ever seen one with the
bayonet blued? That is what I have, FWIW. Just my luck as one of a
group at work who ordered some at the same time. All the other had plain
bayonets. All Russian manufacture and old enough, so they could keep
the folding bayonets.

Only IRRC..the Albanian was blued, and it was a spike, not a blade.
You want to know about SKS bayonets...hummm...there was a guy from
back home...

http://www.yooperj.com/SKS-19.htm



Id ask $250 and it would probably sell quick enough. They arent
"worth" a hell of a lot..but are damned good utility weapons to have
on hand.

Agreed.

Enjoy,
DoN.

Maybe an o-ring around the pin that centers it. I seem to remember a
sliding pin on our pump. Load a BB or a pellet.

Martin

On 4/10/2016 9:10 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2016-04-09, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 06:52:12 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 10:35:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On 8 Apr 2016 01:56:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[ ... ]

I've only tired that (with the wax sold for the task) with .38
special, and with the .22 Jet. The latter I used in my apartment to get
roaches which would retreat into the corner of the ceiling of the
bathroom, and wave their feelers at me, saying "You can't swat us here
-- too much obstruction." (Maybe so -- but the wax load did quite well
for the job. I didn't have any really long range shots, but what I did
use it for it was sufficiently accurate. :-)

[ ... ]

And then there's this "a salt" weapon. http://bugasalt.com/ . Clever idea.

It looks like fun, but man, that's a lot of money to shoot bugs.

Interesting. I wonder how difficult it would be to modify a
pump type pellet pistol to fire a charge of salt? (Part of the problem,
given the use at the grill, is avoiding anything which coucl contaminate
the food being prepared. :-)

Enjoy
DoN.

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2016-04-09, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 06:52:12 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 10:35:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
On 8 Apr 2016 01:56:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

[ ... ]

I've only tired that (with the wax sold for the task) with .38
special, and with the .22 Jet. The latter I used in my
apartment to get
roaches which would retreat into the corner of the ceiling of
the
bathroom, and wave their feelers at me, saying "You can't swat
us here
-- too much obstruction." (Maybe so -- but the wax load did
quite well
for the job. I didn't have any really long range shots, but
what I did
use it for it was sufficiently accurate. :-)

[ ... ]

And then there's this "a salt" weapon. http://bugasalt.com/ .
Clever idea.

It looks like fun, but man, that's a lot of money to shoot bugs.

Interesting. I wonder how difficult it would be to modify a
pump type pellet pistol to fire a charge of salt? (Part of the
problem,
given the use at the grill, is avoiding anything which coucl
contaminate
the food being prepared. :-)

Enjoy
DoN.

Maybe you could squirt hot melt glue into holes in a plate to cast
nontoxic pellets. A slight countersink would give loose-fitting slugs
a gas seal.

You get extra points for casting boattail spitzers.

On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 17:50:53 -0700, wrote:

I know, it's a nutty idea but I designed a centerfire .22 round.

You might want to check out the Vetterly Swiss army .41 caliber rifle
for some ideas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetterli_rifle

I have one but since I haven't seen ammo for it in decades, I'm about
to donate it to our local gun museum.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

On Wed, 06 Apr 2016 09:03:34 -0700, wrote:


Cases are usually crimped to hold the bullet tightly. If you don't
crimp the bullet then the cartridges will have to be handled a bit
more carefully and probably should only be used in a single shot
weapon.

No, not necessarily. Before my eyes went, I was a very serious
Metallic Silhouette shooter. I have a custom-built bolt action
handgun with a 14" barrel and chambered for .308.

Needless to say the recoil is brutal. I would never ever crimp a
case! The release pressure is so unreliable that accuracy would
suffer badly. With carefully head-spaced and neck-turned brass, the
bullet can be very tightly and very repeatably retained by slight
swaging during seating.

I know standard rimfire .22s have crimped cases and need to in order
for the correct pressure build up.

I don't think so. The crimp is strictly for bullet retention since
the bullet extends into the case only enough for the crimp groove.

Since you're making the rifle and the cartridges, you can do like a
lot of bench-rest shooters do and what I did. I head-spaced the
chamber so that when the cartridge was inserted and the bolt closed,
the bullet was resting on the beginning of the rifling.

Using this method, the bullet has no jump from starting to exit the
cartridge until it encounters the rifling. That little jump can let
the bullet enter the rifling slightly cocked which affects accuracy.

There was a normal headspace shoulder a few thousands forward to catch
a short cartridge which includes SAAMI spec commercial cartridges.

In your case, the case would necessarily have to be swaged pretty
tightly to resist the force of the firing pin. I anticipate many
misfires. I'm not sure why you're deviating from the tried and true
rim on your wildcat.

John


John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:26:50 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Wed, 06 Apr 2016 09:03:34 -0700, wrote:


Cases are usually crimped to hold the bullet tightly. If you don't
crimp the bullet then the cartridges will have to be handled a bit
more carefully and probably should only be used in a single shot
weapon.

No, not necessarily. Before my eyes went, I was a very serious
Metallic Silhouette shooter. I have a custom-built bolt action
handgun with a 14" barrel and chambered for .308.

Needless to say the recoil is brutal. I would never ever crimp a
case! The release pressure is so unreliable that accuracy would
suffer badly. With carefully head-spaced and neck-turned brass, the
bullet can be very tightly and very repeatably retained by slight
swaging during seating.

I know standard rimfire .22s have crimped cases and need to in order
for the correct pressure build up.

I don't think so. The crimp is strictly for bullet retention since
the bullet extends into the case only enough for the crimp groove.

Since you're making the rifle and the cartridges, you can do like a
lot of bench-rest shooters do and what I did. I head-spaced the
chamber so that when the cartridge was inserted and the bolt closed,
the bullet was resting on the beginning of the rifling.

Using this method, the bullet has no jump from starting to exit the
cartridge until it encounters the rifling. That little jump can let
the bullet enter the rifling slightly cocked which affects accuracy.

There was a normal headspace shoulder a few thousands forward to catch
a short cartridge which includes SAAMI spec commercial cartridges.

In your case, the case would necessarily have to be swaged pretty
tightly to resist the force of the firing pin. I anticipate many
misfires. I'm not sure why you're deviating from the tried and true
rim on your wildcat.

John


John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
I'm not sure either. At this point I am just thinking about what would
be required for a rimless cartridge and if it would be worth the
effort. Timewise it would seem to be a waste but I like making things,
especially out of metal, and I like shooting. Having a machine shop
and being a machinist makes it easier to make things. All the comments
posted so far relating to my first post have been a good education.
Eric

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:11:57 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:26:50 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Wed, 06 Apr 2016 09:03:34 -0700, wrote:


Cases are usually crimped to hold the bullet tightly. If you don't
crimp the bullet then the cartridges will have to be handled a bit
more carefully and probably should only be used in a single shot
weapon.

No, not necessarily. Before my eyes went, I was a very serious
Metallic Silhouette shooter. I have a custom-built bolt action
handgun with a 14" barrel and chambered for .308.

Needless to say the recoil is brutal. I would never ever crimp a
case! The release pressure is so unreliable that accuracy would
suffer badly. With carefully head-spaced and neck-turned brass, the
bullet can be very tightly and very repeatably retained by slight
swaging during seating.

I know standard rimfire .22s have crimped cases and need to in order
for the correct pressure build up.

I don't think so. The crimp is strictly for bullet retention since
the bullet extends into the case only enough for the crimp groove.

Since you're making the rifle and the cartridges, you can do like a
lot of bench-rest shooters do and what I did. I head-spaced the
chamber so that when the cartridge was inserted and the bolt closed,
the bullet was resting on the beginning of the rifling.

Using this method, the bullet has no jump from starting to exit the
cartridge until it encounters the rifling. That little jump can let
the bullet enter the rifling slightly cocked which affects accuracy.

There was a normal headspace shoulder a few thousands forward to catch
a short cartridge which includes SAAMI spec commercial cartridges.

In your case, the case would necessarily have to be swaged pretty
tightly to resist the force of the firing pin. I anticipate many
misfires. I'm not sure why you're deviating from the tried and true
rim on your wildcat.

John


John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
I'm not sure either. At this point I am just thinking about what would
be required for a rimless cartridge and if it would be worth the
effort. Timewise it would seem to be a waste but I like making things,
especially out of metal, and I like shooting. Having a machine shop
and being a machinist makes it easier to make things. All the comments
posted so far relating to my first post have been a good education.
Eric

I mentioned earlier that .22 rimfires have ground glass in the primer
and that they rely on the crimp to build up pressure. Or they did, 30
or 40 years ago, when I learned those things.

Wondering if they still use the glass, and what the current thinking
is on crimping rimfire cartridges, I came across this informative
piece from _American Rifleman_:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/arti...le-22-rimfire/

Maybe this will add to your store of knowledge. The story on crimping
centerfires is full of arguments and opinions, but this is the
clearest piece I've seen on rimfires.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:11:57 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:26:50 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Wed, 06 Apr 2016 09:03:34 -0700, wrote:


Cases are usually crimped to hold the bullet tightly. If you
don't
crimp the bullet then the cartridges will have to be handled a
bit
more carefully and probably should only be used in a single shot
weapon.

No, not necessarily. Before my eyes went, I was a very serious
Metallic Silhouette shooter. I have a custom-built bolt action
handgun with a 14" barrel and chambered for .308.

Needless to say the recoil is brutal. I would never ever crimp a
case! The release pressure is so unreliable that accuracy would
suffer badly. With carefully head-spaced and neck-turned brass,
the
bullet can be very tightly and very repeatably retained by slight
swaging during seating.

I know standard rimfire .22s have crimped cases and need to in
order
for the correct pressure build up.

I don't think so. The crimp is strictly for bullet retention since
the bullet extends into the case only enough for the crimp groove.

Since you're making the rifle and the cartridges, you can do like a
lot of bench-rest shooters do and what I did. I head-spaced the
chamber so that when the cartridge was inserted and the bolt
closed,
the bullet was resting on the beginning of the rifling.

Using this method, the bullet has no jump from starting to exit the
cartridge until it encounters the rifling. That little jump can
let
the bullet enter the rifling slightly cocked which affects
accuracy.

There was a normal headspace shoulder a few thousands forward to
catch
a short cartridge which includes SAAMI spec commercial cartridges.

In your case, the case would necessarily have to be swaged pretty
tightly to resist the force of the firing pin. I anticipate many
misfires. I'm not sure why you're deviating from the tried and
true
rim on your wildcat.

John


John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
I'm not sure either. At this point I am just thinking about what
would
be required for a rimless cartridge and if it would be worth the
effort. Timewise it would seem to be a waste but I like making
things,
especially out of metal, and I like shooting. Having a machine shop
and being a machinist makes it easier to make things. All the
comments
posted so far relating to my first post have been a good education.
Eric

I mentioned earlier that .22 rimfires have ground glass in the
primer
and that they rely on the crimp to build up pressure. Or they did,
30
or 40 years ago, when I learned those things.

Wondering if they still use the glass, and what the current thinking
is on crimping rimfire cartridges, I came across this informative
piece from _American Rifleman_:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/arti...le-22-rimfire/

Maybe this will add to your store of knowledge. The story on
crimping
centerfires is full of arguments and opinions, but this is the
clearest piece I've seen on rimfires.

--
Ed Huntress

The .22 developed around 1845 from a lead ball in a percussion cap for
indoor practice. The rim was soon added to eliminate slow and clumsy
ramrod extraction. Being the first metallic cartridge, preceded by
only the pinfire paper shotshell and a few dead-end caseless
experiments, and meant as a toy it didn't have the strength or consume
as much metal as 1860's military experience proved necessary.

It's NOT a good example to copy in any way. Cased ammunition wasn't
substantially perfected until around 1870, and settled into the
'modern' form between 1890 and 1900.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/history_rimfire_ammo.htm

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 12:24:40 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:11:57 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:26:50 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Wed, 06 Apr 2016 09:03:34 -0700, wrote:


Cases are usually crimped to hold the bullet tightly. If you don't
crimp the bullet then the cartridges will have to be handled a bit
more carefully and probably should only be used in a single shot
weapon.

No, not necessarily. Before my eyes went, I was a very serious
Metallic Silhouette shooter. I have a custom-built bolt action
handgun with a 14" barrel and chambered for .308.

Needless to say the recoil is brutal. I would never ever crimp a
case! The release pressure is so unreliable that accuracy would
suffer badly. With carefully head-spaced and neck-turned brass, the
bullet can be very tightly and very repeatably retained by slight
swaging during seating.

I know standard rimfire .22s have crimped cases and need to in order
for the correct pressure build up.

I don't think so. The crimp is strictly for bullet retention since
the bullet extends into the case only enough for the crimp groove.

Since you're making the rifle and the cartridges, you can do like a
lot of bench-rest shooters do and what I did. I head-spaced the
chamber so that when the cartridge was inserted and the bolt closed,
the bullet was resting on the beginning of the rifling.

Using this method, the bullet has no jump from starting to exit the
cartridge until it encounters the rifling. That little jump can let
the bullet enter the rifling slightly cocked which affects accuracy.

There was a normal headspace shoulder a few thousands forward to catch
a short cartridge which includes SAAMI spec commercial cartridges.

In your case, the case would necessarily have to be swaged pretty
tightly to resist the force of the firing pin. I anticipate many
misfires. I'm not sure why you're deviating from the tried and true
rim on your wildcat.

John


John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
I'm not sure either. At this point I am just thinking about what would
be required for a rimless cartridge and if it would be worth the
effort. Timewise it would seem to be a waste but I like making things,
especially out of metal, and I like shooting. Having a machine shop
and being a machinist makes it easier to make things. All the comments
posted so far relating to my first post have been a good education.
Eric

I mentioned earlier that .22 rimfires have ground glass in the primer
and that they rely on the crimp to build up pressure. Or they did, 30
or 40 years ago, when I learned those things.

Wondering if they still use the glass, and what the current thinking
is on crimping rimfire cartridges, I came across this informative
piece from _American Rifleman_:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/arti...le-22-rimfire/

Maybe this will add to your store of knowledge. The story on crimping
centerfires is full of arguments and opinions, but this is the
clearest piece I've seen on rimfires.
Thanks for the link Ed, I'll read it this evening.
Eric

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:07:45 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 17:50:53 -0700, wrote:

I know, it's a nutty idea but I designed a centerfire .22 round.

You might want to check out the Vetterly Swiss army .41 caliber rifle
for some ideas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetterli_rifle

I have one but since I haven't seen ammo for it in decades, I'm about
to donate it to our local gun museum.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

Before you donate it....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z1sHIaOjZs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPHJ_9a9YQ8

http://www.surplusfirearm.com/2011/0...ge-conversion/

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ire-conversion

A perfectly easy and relevant metalworking job for this newsgroup btw.
(Grin)

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:26:50 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Wed, 06 Apr 2016 09:03:34 -0700, wrote:


Cases are usually crimped to hold the bullet tightly. If you don't
crimp the bullet then the cartridges will have to be handled a bit
more carefully and probably should only be used in a single shot
weapon.

No, not necessarily. Before my eyes went, I was a very serious
Metallic Silhouette shooter. I have a custom-built bolt action
handgun with a 14" barrel and chambered for .308.

Needless to say the recoil is brutal. I would never ever crimp a
case! The release pressure is so unreliable that accuracy would
suffer badly. With carefully head-spaced and neck-turned brass, the
bullet can be very tightly and very repeatably retained by slight
swaging during seating.

I know standard rimfire .22s have crimped cases and need to in order
for the correct pressure build up.

I don't think so. The crimp is strictly for bullet retention since
the bullet extends into the case only enough for the crimp groove.

Since you're making the rifle and the cartridges, you can do like a
lot of bench-rest shooters do and what I did. I head-spaced the
chamber so that when the cartridge was inserted and the bolt closed,
the bullet was resting on the beginning of the rifling.

Using this method, the bullet has no jump from starting to exit the
cartridge until it encounters the rifling. That little jump can let
the bullet enter the rifling slightly cocked which affects accuracy.

There was a normal headspace shoulder a few thousands forward to catch
a short cartridge which includes SAAMI spec commercial cartridges.

In your case, the case would necessarily have to be swaged pretty
tightly to resist the force of the firing pin. I anticipate many
misfires. I'm not sure why you're deviating from the tried and true
rim on your wildcat.

John

Good post! Bravo!

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:07:45 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 17:50:53 -0700, wrote:

I know, it's a nutty idea but I designed a centerfire .22 round.

You might want to check out the Vetterly Swiss army .41 caliber rifle
for some ideas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetterli_rifle

I have one but since I haven't seen ammo for it in decades, I'm about
to donate it to our local gun museum.

In fact...Id be interested in getting another one. My last Vetterli
was nearly 30 yrs ago and Id love to do another gun project.

Want to swap/trade/barter yours, let me know. (assuming the bore is
decent enough to be shootable)

Gunner

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 14:02:25 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:07:45 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 17:50:53 -0700, wrote:

I know, it's a nutty idea but I designed a centerfire .22 round.

You might want to check out the Vetterly Swiss army .41 caliber rifle
for some ideas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetterli_rifle

I have one but since I haven't seen ammo for it in decades, I'm about
to donate it to our local gun museum.

In fact...Id be interested in getting another one. My last Vetterli
was nearly 30 yrs ago and Id love to do another gun project.

Want to swap/trade/barter yours, let me know. (assuming the bore is
decent enough to be shootable)

Gunner

Ah Ha! Gunner the gunsmith? Well why not, we have gunner the intrepid
warrior, gunner the motorcycle racer, gunner the murderer (buries the
bodies in the desert), gunner the banjo player, gunner the ear
collector.

Unfortunately we lack gunner the truthful.

--

Cheers,

Schweik

rOn Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:26:50 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Wed, 06 Apr 2016 09:03:34 -0700, wrote:


Cases are usually crimped to hold the bullet tightly. If you don't
crimp the bullet then the cartridges will have to be handled a bit
more carefully and probably should only be used in a single shot
weapon.

No, not necessarily. Before my eyes went, I was a very serious
Metallic Silhouette shooter. I have a custom-built bolt action
handgun with a 14" barrel and chambered for .308.

Needless to say the recoil is brutal. I would never ever crimp a
case! The release pressure is so unreliable that accuracy would
suffer badly. With carefully head-spaced and neck-turned brass, the
bullet can be very tightly and very repeatably retained by slight
swaging during seating.

You are missing the point. It isn't the cartridge in the chamber that
is the problem it is the cartridges in the magazine/cylinder that
cause the problem. As I believe I've said, I've seen 44 Magnum
revolvers lock up because the bullets move far enough that the bullets
protrude from the cylinder.

--

Cheers,

John B.

On 2016-04-11, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 11 Apr 2016 01:52:04 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-04-10, Gunner Asch wrote:

[ ... ]

I bought my first 5 SKSs, for $75 each, with a 440rd spam can of ammo

[ ... ]

You've had quite a few, then. Have you ever seen one with the
bayonet blued? That is what I have, FWIW. Just my luck as one of a
group at work who ordered some at the same time. All the other had plain
bayonets. All Russian manufacture and old enough, so they could keep
the folding bayonets.

Only IRRC..the Albanian was blued, and it was a spike, not a blade.
You want to know about SKS bayonets...hummm...there was a guy from
back home...

http://www.yooperj.com/SKS-19.htm

O.K. The forth photo starting at the top (the third full blade
photo) is what I have. Called a "black finished bayonet". Anyway, the
suggestion that it went though an arsenal rebuild makes sense.

Thanks,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 12 Apr 2016 03:39:17 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-04-11, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 11 Apr 2016 01:52:04 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-04-10, Gunner Asch wrote:

[ ... ]

I bought my first 5 SKSs, for $75 each, with a 440rd spam can of ammo

[ ... ]

You've had quite a few, then. Have you ever seen one with the
bayonet blued? That is what I have, FWIW. Just my luck as one of a
group at work who ordered some at the same time. All the other had plain
bayonets. All Russian manufacture and old enough, so they could keep
the folding bayonets.

Only IRRC..the Albanian was blued, and it was a spike, not a blade.
You want to know about SKS bayonets...hummm...there was a guy from
back home...

http://www.yooperj.com/SKS-19.htm

O.K. The forth photo starting at the top (the third full blade
photo) is what I have. Called a "black finished bayonet". Anyway, the
suggestion that it went though an arsenal rebuild makes sense.

Thanks,
DoN.

Is your rifle in the proper age range? Ive not seen very many older
than about 1956ish or so.

Gunner

On 2016-04-12, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 12 Apr 2016 03:39:17 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-04-11, Gunner Asch wrote:

[ ... ]

http://www.yooperj.com/SKS-19.htm

O.K. The forth photo starting at the top (the third full blade
photo) is what I have. Called a "black finished bayonet". Anyway, the
suggestion that it went though an arsenal rebuild makes sense.

[ ... ]

Is your rifle in the proper age range? Ive not seen very many older
than about 1956ish or so.

I think so. It was allowed to keep its bayonet because it was
old enough for that, at least. (Age and country of origin both played
into that.)

It is out of reach at the moment -- not down where I am typing
this. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 07:34:01 +0700, John B.
wrote:


You are missing the point. It isn't the cartridge in the chamber that
is the problem it is the cartridges in the magazine/cylinder that
cause the problem. As I believe I've said, I've seen 44 Magnum
revolvers lock up because the bullets move far enough that the bullets
protrude from the cylinder.

No I'm not. My M-14 shoots my same silhouette loads just fine.

The .44 mag is a special case. Heavy bullet, high recoil and a very
weak case, far too thin to swage. Plus the bullet is almost out of
the cylinder even when loaded to SAAMI specs.

John

John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address