Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten into metal working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.

On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 07:14:06 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten into metal working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.

I use both the Harbor Freight (with control switches for delay and
shade) and my beloved and mostly used Optrel..which does
everything..and very very well.

Rather large difference in pricing though.....

http://weldinghelmetpros.com/optrel-...-helmet-review

Ive recently used the Miller and its a nice helmet. But
frankly..doesnt work better than the Harbor Freight.

Gunner

I may be the least qualified to respond on this. My welding helmet is about 5 years old, and cost $35. I had just read a review of both high and low end helmets ands the bottom line was the reaction time/eye protection was the same, but the ergonomics was the difference.
Within a year of very occasional use, the headgear inside the helmet fell apart. The fix is to buy a quality replacement for $30 or so. That puts the price range back in the total for a name-brand with the good parts.
So I think if I were buying today I'd be shopping in the $100 range just to get decent hardware that will hold up.

On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 9:14:08 AM UTC-6, wrote:
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten into metal working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.

wrote in message
...
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten into metal
working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.

I've had two HF automatic hoods. The cheaper one did not easily have a way
to change the batteries and I destroyed it trying to cut the compartment
open. The more expensive one ($10 or 15 difference) was easy to change
batteries, but I managed to break it after a couple years it was quick
enough to go dark, but was slow to go light when you shut off the arc. I
liked the cheaper one better for that because there are some thin metal
welding methods that really benefit from being able to see the weld
bead/spot very quickly ater the arc shuts off. I bought a Miller automatic
and I like it fairly well, but I bumped something with it welding under a
trailer, and broke the adjustment knob off. I still use it all the time,
but I can't lighten the shade easily anymore. LOL. Your mileage may vary.

Regardless of what you decide to use I truly believe an automatic wedling
helmet improved my welding more than anything else except maybe learning
what duty cycle means and that I just need to stop welding and let my
machine cool down when it starts throwing a bad bead whether it has shut
down or not.

Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten into metal
working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.

I've had two HF automatic hoods. The cheaper one did not easily have a
way to change the batteries and I destroyed it trying to cut the
compartment open. The more expensive one ($10 or 15 difference) was easy
to change batteries, but I managed to break it after a couple years it was
quick enough to go dark, but was slow to go light when you shut off the
arc. I liked the cheaper one better for that because there are some thin
metal welding methods that really benefit from being able to see the weld
bead/spot very quickly ater the arc shuts off. I bought a Miller
automatic and I like it fairly well, but I bumped something with it
welding under a trailer, and broke the adjustment knob off. I still use
it all the time, but I can't lighten the shade easily anymore. LOL. Your
mileage may vary.

Regardless of what you decide to use I truly believe an automatic wedling
helmet improved my welding more than anything else except maybe learning
what duty cycle means and that I just need to stop welding and let my
machine cool down when it starts throwing a bad bead whether it has shut
down or not.

I feel I need to add that the larger the viewing area the better.
Regardless of the type or brand of hood.

On 11/17/2015 10:41 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten into metal
working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.

I've had two HF automatic hoods. The cheaper one did not easily have a
way to change the batteries and I destroyed it trying to cut the
compartment open. The more expensive one ($10 or 15 difference) was easy
to change batteries, but I managed to break it after a couple years it was
quick enough to go dark, but was slow to go light when you shut off the
arc. I liked the cheaper one better for that because there are some thin
metal welding methods that really benefit from being able to see the weld
bead/spot very quickly ater the arc shuts off. I bought a Miller
automatic and I like it fairly well, but I bumped something with it
welding under a trailer, and broke the adjustment knob off. I still use
it all the time, but I can't lighten the shade easily anymore. LOL. Your
mileage may vary.

Regardless of what you decide to use I truly believe an automatic wedling
helmet improved my welding more than anything else except maybe learning
what duty cycle means and that I just need to stop welding and let my
machine cool down when it starts throwing a bad bead whether it has shut
down or not.

I feel I need to add that the larger the viewing area the better.
Regardless of the type or brand of hood.


I agree with Bob on the viewing area. I bought a Harbor Freight
automatic helmet several years ago and like it.

I also wear glasses and use safety glasses in the shop. If either of you
wear glasses, make sure there is room in the helmet for your glasses.

Paul

wrote:
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten into metal working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.

Take a look at the Kobalt Auto Darkening unit. I replaced an OLD HF unit
with it. (HF unit worked just fine, right up until I drove over it !!!)
Decided I wanted something a bit nicer. The Kobalt is a 4 sensor unit,
solar/Batt. with adjustable sensing, time to clear and shade tint. Also
has a grinding function that I don't use. MUCH lighter than the HF unit
with better headgear.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_396400-47120...d=3773821&pl=1

Video showing the helmet and how it works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXS4vxkE0F8

--
Steve W.

On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 1:39:42 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
wrote in message
...
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten into metal
working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.

I've had two HF automatic hoods. The cheaper one did not easily have a way
to change the batteries and I destroyed it trying to cut the compartment
open. The more expensive one ($10 or 15 difference) was easy to change
batteries, but I managed to break it after a couple years it was quick
enough to go dark, but was slow to go light when you shut off the arc. I
liked the cheaper one better for that because there are some thin metal
welding methods that really benefit from being able to see the weld
bead/spot very quickly ater the arc shuts off. I bought a Miller automatic
and I like it fairly well, but I bumped something with it welding under a
trailer, and broke the adjustment knob off. I still use it all the time,
but I can't lighten the shade easily anymore. LOL. Your mileage may vary.

Regardless of what you decide to use I truly believe an automatic wedling
helmet improved my welding more than anything else except maybe learning
what duty cycle means and that I just need to stop welding and let my
machine cool down when it starts throwing a bad bead whether it has shut
down or not.

That's great, Thanks Bob,
(and Gunner, Rex, Paul, Steve.)
I'm pretty much a welding idiot.
My house came with a Dayton buzz box, (with a mis-wired plug.)
I made a few bad welds, and then two that are ugly,
but still holding, and haven't used it since.
(I guess I better make sure it's still working and
mice haven't made nests everywhere inside.)

Any other essential piece of kit I need?

George H.

wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 1:39:42 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
wrote in message
...
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten into metal
working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.
I've had two HF automatic hoods. The cheaper one did not easily have a way
to change the batteries and I destroyed it trying to cut the compartment
open. The more expensive one ($10 or 15 difference) was easy to change
batteries, but I managed to break it after a couple years it was quick
enough to go dark, but was slow to go light when you shut off the arc. I
liked the cheaper one better for that because there are some thin metal
welding methods that really benefit from being able to see the weld
bead/spot very quickly ater the arc shuts off. I bought a Miller automatic
and I like it fairly well, but I bumped something with it welding under a
trailer, and broke the adjustment knob off. I still use it all the time,
but I can't lighten the shade easily anymore. LOL. Your mileage may vary.

Regardless of what you decide to use I truly believe an automatic wedling
helmet improved my welding more than anything else except maybe learning
what duty cycle means and that I just need to stop welding and let my
machine cool down when it starts throwing a bad bead whether it has shut
down or not.

That's great, Thanks Bob,
(and Gunner, Rex, Paul, Steve.)
I'm pretty much a welding idiot.
My house came with a Dayton buzz box, (with a mis-wired plug.)
I made a few bad welds, and then two that are ugly,
but still holding, and haven't used it since.
(I guess I better make sure it's still working and
mice haven't made nests everywhere inside.)

Any other essential piece of kit I need?

George H.


Welding gauntlets (I buy 2-3 pairs of the HF ones a year, they hold up
just as good as the more expensive ones I've used)

Long sleeve treated cotton or leather shirt/jacket to keep you from
getting a burn from the UV and sparks. (I actually use wildland
firefighting shirts, they are either a treated cotton or Nomex type
material, and they are usually much cheaper than the same thing sold at
a welding supply.

Scrap steel and a solid table with a vice for practicing and testing
your welds.

Grinder w/flap wheels (the great equalizer for the beginning welder)

--
Steve W.

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 1:39:42 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe
wrote:
wrote in message
...
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for
X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten into
metal working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of
options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.
I've had two HF automatic hoods. The cheaper one did not easily
have a way to change the batteries and I destroyed it trying to
cut the compartment open. The more expensive one ($10 or 15
difference) was easy to change batteries, but I managed to break
it after a couple years it was quick enough to go dark, but was
slow to go light when you shut off the arc. I liked the cheaper
one better for that because there are some thin metal welding
methods that really benefit from being able to see the weld
bead/spot very quickly ater the arc shuts off. I bought a Miller
automatic and I like it fairly well, but I bumped something with
it welding under a trailer, and broke the adjustment knob off. I
still use it all the time, but I can't lighten the shade easily
anymore. LOL. Your mileage may vary.

Regardless of what you decide to use I truly believe an automatic
wedling helmet improved my welding more than anything else except
maybe learning what duty cycle means and that I just need to stop
welding and let my machine cool down when it starts throwing a bad
bead whether it has shut down or not.

That's great, Thanks Bob, (and Gunner, Rex, Paul, Steve.) I'm
pretty much a welding idiot. My house came with a Dayton buzz box,
(with a mis-wired plug.)
I made a few bad welds, and then two that are ugly,
but still holding, and haven't used it since. (I guess I better
make sure it's still working and mice haven't made nests everywhere
inside.)

Any other essential piece of kit I need? George H.

Welding gauntlets (I buy 2-3 pairs of the HF ones a year, they hold
up just as good as the more expensive ones I've used)

Long sleeve treated cotton or leather shirt/jacket to keep you from
getting a burn from the UV and sparks. (I actually use wildland
firefighting shirts, they are either a treated cotton or Nomex type
material, and they are usually much cheaper than the same thing sold
at a welding supply.

Scrap steel and a solid table with a vice for practicing and testing
your welds.

Grinder w/flap wheels (the great equalizer for the beginning welder)

--
Steve W.

For completeness, a chipping hammer and wire brush are essential for
stick and flux core welding. A cotton cap and leather shoes help
protect you from hot sparks. When I sit down to weld small delicate
stuff I wear a long leather apron and shoe spats.

Since I can't dedicate a space only for welding I use firebricks to
set up a temporary one shaped like a small barbecue pit. The sides
deflect the wind, conceal the arc flash from neighbors and help hold
pieces in place.

Magnetic angles and C-shaped Vise Grips are often very useful. Clamps
made for welding have copper-plated screws to keep molten spatter from
sticking.

I got by with one 4-1/2" angle grinder until taking on larger
projects. Then I added a 7" one with dish wheels to remove metal fast
and a couple of cheapo 4" grinders permanently set up with a cup brush
for rust and a cutoff wheel to erase small mistakes. The original
4-1/2" grinder has a fairly fine disk for smoothing anything that
could snag skin or clothing. I don't use flap wheels much only because
the edge of a solid disk smoothes inside corners better.

Unless you are only repairing cracks the steel has to be cut to size
first. Either a chop saw or a 4" x 6" bandsaw will serve for that. I
prefer the bandsaw because it's more versatile and accurate. I use
mine a lot for woodworking, with a 6 TPI blade it will smoothly and
accurately cut 6x6 posts and landscaping timbers.

-jsw

On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 2:17:18 AM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 1:39:42 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
wrote in message
...
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten into metal
working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.
I've had two HF automatic hoods. The cheaper one did not easily have a way
to change the batteries and I destroyed it trying to cut the compartment
open. The more expensive one ($10 or 15 difference) was easy to change
batteries, but I managed to break it after a couple years it was quick
enough to go dark, but was slow to go light when you shut off the arc. I
liked the cheaper one better for that because there are some thin metal
welding methods that really benefit from being able to see the weld
bead/spot very quickly ater the arc shuts off. I bought a Miller automatic
and I like it fairly well, but I bumped something with it welding under a
trailer, and broke the adjustment knob off. I still use it all the time,
but I can't lighten the shade easily anymore. LOL. Your mileage may vary.

Regardless of what you decide to use I truly believe an automatic wedling
helmet improved my welding more than anything else except maybe learning
what duty cycle means and that I just need to stop welding and let my
machine cool down when it starts throwing a bad bead whether it has shut
down or not.

That's great, Thanks Bob,
(and Gunner, Rex, Paul, Steve.)
I'm pretty much a welding idiot.
My house came with a Dayton buzz box, (with a mis-wired plug.)
I made a few bad welds, and then two that are ugly,
but still holding, and haven't used it since.
(I guess I better make sure it's still working and
mice haven't made nests everywhere inside.)

Any other essential piece of kit I need?

George H.


Welding gauntlets (I buy 2-3 pairs of the HF ones a year, they hold up
just as good as the more expensive ones I've used)

Long sleeve treated cotton or leather shirt/jacket to keep you from
getting a burn from the UV and sparks. (I actually use wildland
firefighting shirts, they are either a treated cotton or Nomex type
material, and they are usually much cheaper than the same thing sold at
a welding supply.

OK, I've been using my carhart cotton duck jacket, and "the boy" is now
big enough to not get lost in my old ones.
(Or are we liable to start it on fire?)
He's also taken my fire place gloves for his forging work...
I figured they would be fine for welding too.

Scrap steel and a solid table with a vice for practicing and testing
your welds.
Yeah I've got plenty of scrap steel :^)

George H.

Grinder w/flap wheels (the great equalizer for the beginning welder)

--
Steve W.

On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 8:04:01 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 1:39:42 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe
wrote:
wrote in message
...
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for
X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten into
metal working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of
options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.
I've had two HF automatic hoods. The cheaper one did not easily
have a way to change the batteries and I destroyed it trying to
cut the compartment open. The more expensive one ($10 or 15
difference) was easy to change batteries, but I managed to break
it after a couple years it was quick enough to go dark, but was
slow to go light when you shut off the arc. I liked the cheaper
one better for that because there are some thin metal welding
methods that really benefit from being able to see the weld
bead/spot very quickly ater the arc shuts off. I bought a Miller
automatic and I like it fairly well, but I bumped something with
it welding under a trailer, and broke the adjustment knob off. I
still use it all the time, but I can't lighten the shade easily
anymore. LOL. Your mileage may vary.

Regardless of what you decide to use I truly believe an automatic
wedling helmet improved my welding more than anything else except
maybe learning what duty cycle means and that I just need to stop
welding and let my machine cool down when it starts throwing a bad
bead whether it has shut down or not.

That's great, Thanks Bob, (and Gunner, Rex, Paul, Steve.) I'm
pretty much a welding idiot. My house came with a Dayton buzz box,
(with a mis-wired plug.)
I made a few bad welds, and then two that are ugly,
but still holding, and haven't used it since. (I guess I better
make sure it's still working and mice haven't made nests everywhere
inside.)

Any other essential piece of kit I need? George H.

Welding gauntlets (I buy 2-3 pairs of the HF ones a year, they hold
up just as good as the more expensive ones I've used)

Long sleeve treated cotton or leather shirt/jacket to keep you from
getting a burn from the UV and sparks. (I actually use wildland
firefighting shirts, they are either a treated cotton or Nomex type
material, and they are usually much cheaper than the same thing sold
at a welding supply.

Scrap steel and a solid table with a vice for practicing and testing
your welds.

Grinder w/flap wheels (the great equalizer for the beginning welder)

--
Steve W.

For completeness, a chipping hammer and wire brush are essential for
stick and flux core welding. A cotton cap and leather shoes help
protect you from hot sparks. When I sit down to weld small delicate
stuff I wear a long leather apron and shoe spats.

Since I can't dedicate a space only for welding I use firebricks to
set up a temporary one shaped like a small barbecue pit. The sides
deflect the wind, conceal the arc flash from neighbors and help hold
pieces in place.

Magnetic angles and C-shaped Vise Grips are often very useful. Clamps
made for welding have copper-plated screws to keep molten spatter from
sticking.

I got by with one 4-1/2" angle grinder until taking on larger
projects. Then I added a 7" one with dish wheels to remove metal fast
and a couple of cheapo 4" grinders permanently set up with a cup brush
for rust and a cutoff wheel to erase small mistakes. The original
4-1/2" grinder has a fairly fine disk for smoothing anything that
could snag skin or clothing. I don't use flap wheels much only because
the edge of a solid disk smoothes inside corners better.

Unless you are only repairing cracks the steel has to be cut to size
first. Either a chop saw or a 4" x 6" bandsaw will serve for that. I
prefer the bandsaw because it's more versatile and accurate. I use
mine a lot for woodworking, with a 6 TPI blade it will smoothly and
accurately cut 6x6 posts and landscaping timbers.

-jsw

Got it, thanks. We've got a small angle grinder,
I've mostly been using a reciprocating saw for slicing metal.
If things get serious a chop saw would be nice.

George H.

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 2:17:18 AM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 1:39:42 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe
wrote:
wrote in message
...
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for
X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten into
metal
working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of
options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.
I've had two HF automatic hoods. The cheaper one did not easily
have a way
to change the batteries and I destroyed it trying to cut the
compartment
open. The more expensive one ($10 or 15 difference) was easy to
change
batteries, but I managed to break it after a couple years it was
quick
enough to go dark, but was slow to go light when you shut off
the arc. I
liked the cheaper one better for that because there are some
thin metal
welding methods that really benefit from being able to see the
weld
bead/spot very quickly ater the arc shuts off. I bought a
Miller automatic
and I like it fairly well, but I bumped something with it
welding under a
trailer, and broke the adjustment knob off. I still use it all
the time,
but I can't lighten the shade easily anymore. LOL. Your
mileage may vary.

Regardless of what you decide to use I truly believe an
automatic wedling
helmet improved my welding more than anything else except maybe
learning
what duty cycle means and that I just need to stop welding and
let my
machine cool down when it starts throwing a bad bead whether it
has shut
down or not.

That's great, Thanks Bob,
(and Gunner, Rex, Paul, Steve.)
I'm pretty much a welding idiot.
My house came with a Dayton buzz box, (with a mis-wired plug.)
I made a few bad welds, and then two that are ugly,
but still holding, and haven't used it since.
(I guess I better make sure it's still working and
mice haven't made nests everywhere inside.)

Any other essential piece of kit I need?

George H.


Welding gauntlets (I buy 2-3 pairs of the HF ones a year, they hold
up
just as good as the more expensive ones I've used)

Long sleeve treated cotton or leather shirt/jacket to keep you from
getting a burn from the UV and sparks. (I actually use wildland
firefighting shirts, they are either a treated cotton or Nomex type
material, and they are usually much cheaper than the same thing
sold at
a welding supply.

OK, I've been using my carhart cotton duck jacket, and "the boy" is
now
big enough to not get lost in my old ones.
(Or are we liable to start it on fire?)
He's also taken my fire place gloves for his forging work...
I figured they would be fine for welding too.

Scrap steel and a solid table with a vice for practicing and
testing
your welds.
Yeah I've got plenty of scrap steel :^)

George H.

Grinder w/flap wheels (the great equalizer for the beginning
welder)

--
Steve W.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Fire...and-courtains/
I used a saturated solution of feed-store alum plus borax to treat
cotton welding curtains. A sample strip hung over an upright propane
torch flame burned in the flame but only charred above it.
-jsw

I have lots of heavy duty welding tables for sale. 1/2, 5/8, and up
top thickness.

i

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 8:04:01 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins
wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 1:39:42 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe
wrote:
wrote in message
...
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for
X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten
into
metal working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of
options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.
I've had two HF automatic hoods. The cheaper one did not
easily
have a way to change the batteries and I destroyed it trying to
cut the compartment open. The more expensive one ($10 or 15
difference) was easy to change batteries, but I managed to
break
it after a couple years it was quick enough to go dark, but was
slow to go light when you shut off the arc. I liked the
cheaper
one better for that because there are some thin metal welding
methods that really benefit from being able to see the weld
bead/spot very quickly ater the arc shuts off. I bought a
Miller
automatic and I like it fairly well, but I bumped something
with
it welding under a trailer, and broke the adjustment knob off.
I
still use it all the time, but I can't lighten the shade easily
anymore. LOL. Your mileage may vary.

Regardless of what you decide to use I truly believe an
automatic
wedling helmet improved my welding more than anything else
except
maybe learning what duty cycle means and that I just need to
stop
welding and let my machine cool down when it starts throwing a
bad
bead whether it has shut down or not.

That's great, Thanks Bob, (and Gunner, Rex, Paul, Steve.) I'm
pretty much a welding idiot. My house came with a Dayton buzz
box,
(with a mis-wired plug.)
I made a few bad welds, and then two that are ugly,
but still holding, and haven't used it since. (I guess I better
make sure it's still working and mice haven't made nests
everywhere
inside.)

Any other essential piece of kit I need? George H.

Welding gauntlets (I buy 2-3 pairs of the HF ones a year, they
hold
up just as good as the more expensive ones I've used)

Long sleeve treated cotton or leather shirt/jacket to keep you
from
getting a burn from the UV and sparks. (I actually use wildland
firefighting shirts, they are either a treated cotton or Nomex
type
material, and they are usually much cheaper than the same thing
sold
at a welding supply.

Scrap steel and a solid table with a vice for practicing and
testing
your welds.

Grinder w/flap wheels (the great equalizer for the beginning
welder)

--
Steve W.

For completeness, a chipping hammer and wire brush are essential
for
stick and flux core welding. A cotton cap and leather shoes help
protect you from hot sparks. When I sit down to weld small delicate
stuff I wear a long leather apron and shoe spats.

Since I can't dedicate a space only for welding I use firebricks to
set up a temporary one shaped like a small barbecue pit. The sides
deflect the wind, conceal the arc flash from neighbors and help
hold
pieces in place.

Magnetic angles and C-shaped Vise Grips are often very useful.
Clamps
made for welding have copper-plated screws to keep molten spatter
from
sticking.

I got by with one 4-1/2" angle grinder until taking on larger
projects. Then I added a 7" one with dish wheels to remove metal
fast
and a couple of cheapo 4" grinders permanently set up with a cup
brush
for rust and a cutoff wheel to erase small mistakes. The original
4-1/2" grinder has a fairly fine disk for smoothing anything that
could snag skin or clothing. I don't use flap wheels much only
because
the edge of a solid disk smoothes inside corners better.

Unless you are only repairing cracks the steel has to be cut to
size
first. Either a chop saw or a 4" x 6" bandsaw will serve for that.
I
prefer the bandsaw because it's more versatile and accurate. I use
mine a lot for woodworking, with a 6 TPI blade it will smoothly and
accurately cut 6x6 posts and landscaping timbers.

-jsw

Got it, thanks. We've got a small angle grinder,
I've mostly been using a reciprocating saw for slicing metal.
If things get serious a chop saw would be nice.

George H.

My tool collection grew as projects demanded. The ones I listed were
enough to fabricate a sawmill, a log splitter, and a bucket loader for
my tractor.

The chop saw's advantage is that it will cut thinner or harder steel
better, though both of those are tricky to weld. Its disadvantage is
the shower of glowing sparks that may force you to use it outdoors.
Fortunately my biker neighbors don't mind its loud noise.

-jsw

On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 9:13:13 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 2:17:18 AM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 1:39:42 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe
wrote:
wrote in message
...
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for
X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten into
metal
working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of
options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.
I've had two HF automatic hoods. The cheaper one did not easily
have a way
to change the batteries and I destroyed it trying to cut the
compartment
open. The more expensive one ($10 or 15 difference) was easy to
change
batteries, but I managed to break it after a couple years it was
quick
enough to go dark, but was slow to go light when you shut off
the arc. I
liked the cheaper one better for that because there are some
thin metal
welding methods that really benefit from being able to see the
weld
bead/spot very quickly ater the arc shuts off. I bought a
Miller automatic
and I like it fairly well, but I bumped something with it
welding under a
trailer, and broke the adjustment knob off. I still use it all
the time,
but I can't lighten the shade easily anymore. LOL. Your
mileage may vary.

Regardless of what you decide to use I truly believe an
automatic wedling
helmet improved my welding more than anything else except maybe
learning
what duty cycle means and that I just need to stop welding and
let my
machine cool down when it starts throwing a bad bead whether it
has shut
down or not.

That's great, Thanks Bob,
(and Gunner, Rex, Paul, Steve.)
I'm pretty much a welding idiot.
My house came with a Dayton buzz box, (with a mis-wired plug.)
I made a few bad welds, and then two that are ugly,
but still holding, and haven't used it since.
(I guess I better make sure it's still working and
mice haven't made nests everywhere inside.)

Any other essential piece of kit I need?

George H.


Welding gauntlets (I buy 2-3 pairs of the HF ones a year, they hold
up
just as good as the more expensive ones I've used)

Long sleeve treated cotton or leather shirt/jacket to keep you from
getting a burn from the UV and sparks. (I actually use wildland
firefighting shirts, they are either a treated cotton or Nomex type
material, and they are usually much cheaper than the same thing
sold at
a welding supply.

OK, I've been using my carhart cotton duck jacket, and "the boy" is
now
big enough to not get lost in my old ones.
(Or are we liable to start it on fire?)
He's also taken my fire place gloves for his forging work...
I figured they would be fine for welding too.

Scrap steel and a solid table with a vice for practicing and
testing
your welds.
Yeah I've got plenty of scrap steel :^)

George H.

Grinder w/flap wheels (the great equalizer for the beginning
welder)

--
Steve W.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Fire...and-courtains/
I used a saturated solution of feed-store alum plus borax to treat
cotton welding curtains. A sample strip hung over an upright propane
torch flame burned in the flame but only charred above it.
-jsw

Hmm, We used borax to turn toilet paper into non-burnable wadding for
model rocket launches. Same idea.
Welding will be done out in the barn, (concrete floor) away from the house.
(neighbors are at least 1/4 mile away.) Is fire that much of a concern?
Maybe a fire extinguisher for the barn is in order... probably not a bad idea
even without the welding.

George H.

On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 9:43:12 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 8:04:01 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins
wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 1:39:42 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe
wrote:
wrote in message
...
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for
X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten
into
metal working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of
options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.
I've had two HF automatic hoods. The cheaper one did not
easily
have a way to change the batteries and I destroyed it trying to
cut the compartment open. The more expensive one ($10 or 15
difference) was easy to change batteries, but I managed to
break
it after a couple years it was quick enough to go dark, but was
slow to go light when you shut off the arc. I liked the
cheaper
one better for that because there are some thin metal welding
methods that really benefit from being able to see the weld
bead/spot very quickly ater the arc shuts off. I bought a
Miller
automatic and I like it fairly well, but I bumped something
with
it welding under a trailer, and broke the adjustment knob off.
I
still use it all the time, but I can't lighten the shade easily
anymore. LOL. Your mileage may vary.

Regardless of what you decide to use I truly believe an
automatic
wedling helmet improved my welding more than anything else
except
maybe learning what duty cycle means and that I just need to
stop
welding and let my machine cool down when it starts throwing a
bad
bead whether it has shut down or not.

That's great, Thanks Bob, (and Gunner, Rex, Paul, Steve.) I'm
pretty much a welding idiot. My house came with a Dayton buzz
box,
(with a mis-wired plug.)
I made a few bad welds, and then two that are ugly,
but still holding, and haven't used it since. (I guess I better
make sure it's still working and mice haven't made nests
everywhere
inside.)

Any other essential piece of kit I need? George H.

Welding gauntlets (I buy 2-3 pairs of the HF ones a year, they
hold
up just as good as the more expensive ones I've used)

Long sleeve treated cotton or leather shirt/jacket to keep you
from
getting a burn from the UV and sparks. (I actually use wildland
firefighting shirts, they are either a treated cotton or Nomex
type
material, and they are usually much cheaper than the same thing
sold
at a welding supply.

Scrap steel and a solid table with a vice for practicing and
testing
your welds.

Grinder w/flap wheels (the great equalizer for the beginning
welder)

--
Steve W.

For completeness, a chipping hammer and wire brush are essential
for
stick and flux core welding. A cotton cap and leather shoes help
protect you from hot sparks. When I sit down to weld small delicate
stuff I wear a long leather apron and shoe spats.

Since I can't dedicate a space only for welding I use firebricks to
set up a temporary one shaped like a small barbecue pit. The sides
deflect the wind, conceal the arc flash from neighbors and help
hold
pieces in place.

Magnetic angles and C-shaped Vise Grips are often very useful.
Clamps
made for welding have copper-plated screws to keep molten spatter
from
sticking.

I got by with one 4-1/2" angle grinder until taking on larger
projects. Then I added a 7" one with dish wheels to remove metal
fast
and a couple of cheapo 4" grinders permanently set up with a cup
brush
for rust and a cutoff wheel to erase small mistakes. The original
4-1/2" grinder has a fairly fine disk for smoothing anything that
could snag skin or clothing. I don't use flap wheels much only
because
the edge of a solid disk smoothes inside corners better.

Unless you are only repairing cracks the steel has to be cut to
size
first. Either a chop saw or a 4" x 6" bandsaw will serve for that.
I
prefer the bandsaw because it's more versatile and accurate. I use
mine a lot for woodworking, with a 6 TPI blade it will smoothly and
accurately cut 6x6 posts and landscaping timbers.

-jsw

Got it, thanks. We've got a small angle grinder,
I've mostly been using a reciprocating saw for slicing metal.
If things get serious a chop saw would be nice.

George H.

My tool collection grew as projects demanded. The ones I listed were
enough to fabricate a sawmill, a log splitter, and a bucket loader for
my tractor.
I bought my house from a very private man. He didn't want people
pawing through his stuff, so he left it all behind. My tool collection grew
by a factor of 10 or more. Lotsa wood working stuff, but all sorts of other
goodies too. (A list would only make you jealous.) I've been giving or
trading it away to friends and neighbors, but I still have more "toys"
than I have time to play with.

George H.

The chop saw's advantage is that it will cut thinner or harder steel
better, though both of those are tricky to weld. Its disadvantage is
the shower of glowing sparks that may force you to use it outdoors.
Fortunately my biker neighbors don't mind its loud noise.

-jsw

On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 06:02:48 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 8:04:01 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 1:39:42 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe
wrote:
wrote in message
...
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for
X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten into
metal working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of
options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.
I've had two HF automatic hoods. The cheaper one did not easily
have a way to change the batteries and I destroyed it trying to
cut the compartment open. The more expensive one ($10 or 15
difference) was easy to change batteries, but I managed to break
it after a couple years it was quick enough to go dark, but was
slow to go light when you shut off the arc. I liked the cheaper
one better for that because there are some thin metal welding
methods that really benefit from being able to see the weld
bead/spot very quickly ater the arc shuts off. I bought a Miller
automatic and I like it fairly well, but I bumped something with
it welding under a trailer, and broke the adjustment knob off. I
still use it all the time, but I can't lighten the shade easily
anymore. LOL. Your mileage may vary.

Regardless of what you decide to use I truly believe an automatic
wedling helmet improved my welding more than anything else except
maybe learning what duty cycle means and that I just need to stop
welding and let my machine cool down when it starts throwing a bad
bead whether it has shut down or not.

That's great, Thanks Bob, (and Gunner, Rex, Paul, Steve.) I'm
pretty much a welding idiot. My house came with a Dayton buzz box,
(with a mis-wired plug.)
I made a few bad welds, and then two that are ugly,
but still holding, and haven't used it since. (I guess I better
make sure it's still working and mice haven't made nests everywhere
inside.)

Any other essential piece of kit I need? George H.

Welding gauntlets (I buy 2-3 pairs of the HF ones a year, they hold
up just as good as the more expensive ones I've used)

Long sleeve treated cotton or leather shirt/jacket to keep you from
getting a burn from the UV and sparks. (I actually use wildland
firefighting shirts, they are either a treated cotton or Nomex type
material, and they are usually much cheaper than the same thing sold
at a welding supply.

Scrap steel and a solid table with a vice for practicing and testing
your welds.

Grinder w/flap wheels (the great equalizer for the beginning welder)

--
Steve W.

For completeness, a chipping hammer and wire brush are essential for
stick and flux core welding. A cotton cap and leather shoes help
protect you from hot sparks. When I sit down to weld small delicate
stuff I wear a long leather apron and shoe spats.

Since I can't dedicate a space only for welding I use firebricks to
set up a temporary one shaped like a small barbecue pit. The sides
deflect the wind, conceal the arc flash from neighbors and help hold
pieces in place.

Magnetic angles and C-shaped Vise Grips are often very useful. Clamps
made for welding have copper-plated screws to keep molten spatter from
sticking.

I got by with one 4-1/2" angle grinder until taking on larger
projects. Then I added a 7" one with dish wheels to remove metal fast
and a couple of cheapo 4" grinders permanently set up with a cup brush
for rust and a cutoff wheel to erase small mistakes. The original
4-1/2" grinder has a fairly fine disk for smoothing anything that
could snag skin or clothing. I don't use flap wheels much only because
the edge of a solid disk smoothes inside corners better.

Unless you are only repairing cracks the steel has to be cut to size
first. Either a chop saw or a 4" x 6" bandsaw will serve for that. I
prefer the bandsaw because it's more versatile and accurate. I use
mine a lot for woodworking, with a 6 TPI blade it will smoothly and
accurately cut 6x6 posts and landscaping timbers.

-jsw

Got it, thanks. We've got a small angle grinder,
I've mostly been using a reciprocating saw for slicing metal.
If things get serious a chop saw would be nice.

George H.

A chop saw is fairly inexpensive at HF, blades are cheap at the same
place or on Ebay. And its a ****load faster than your recip saw. Much
much faster!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metabo-14-Me...-/351572313826
(note the name?)

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...ult?q=chop+saw

The single biggest issue with a chop saw..put a piece of masonite,
plywood or sheet steel on the wall behind the saw so the trail of
sparks doesnt catch stuff on fire.

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 9:13:13 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins
wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 2:17:18 AM UTC-5, Steve W.
wrote:
wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 1:39:42 PM UTC-5, Bob La
Londe
wrote:
wrote in message
...
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets
for
X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a
little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten
into
metal
working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of
options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps
the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.
I've had two HF automatic hoods. The cheaper one did not
easily
have a way
to change the batteries and I destroyed it trying to cut the
compartment
open. The more expensive one ($10 or 15 difference) was easy
to
change
batteries, but I managed to break it after a couple years it
was
quick
enough to go dark, but was slow to go light when you shut off
the arc. I
liked the cheaper one better for that because there are some
thin metal
welding methods that really benefit from being able to see
the
weld
bead/spot very quickly ater the arc shuts off. I bought a
Miller automatic
and I like it fairly well, but I bumped something with it
welding under a
trailer, and broke the adjustment knob off. I still use it
all
the time,
but I can't lighten the shade easily anymore. LOL. Your
mileage may vary.

Regardless of what you decide to use I truly believe an
automatic wedling
helmet improved my welding more than anything else except
maybe
learning
what duty cycle means and that I just need to stop welding
and
let my
machine cool down when it starts throwing a bad bead whether
it
has shut
down or not.

That's great, Thanks Bob,
(and Gunner, Rex, Paul, Steve.)
I'm pretty much a welding idiot.
My house came with a Dayton buzz box, (with a mis-wired plug.)
I made a few bad welds, and then two that are ugly,
but still holding, and haven't used it since.
(I guess I better make sure it's still working and
mice haven't made nests everywhere inside.)

Any other essential piece of kit I need?

George H.


Welding gauntlets (I buy 2-3 pairs of the HF ones a year, they
hold
up
just as good as the more expensive ones I've used)

Long sleeve treated cotton or leather shirt/jacket to keep you
from
getting a burn from the UV and sparks. (I actually use wildland
firefighting shirts, they are either a treated cotton or Nomex
type
material, and they are usually much cheaper than the same thing
sold at
a welding supply.

OK, I've been using my carhart cotton duck jacket, and "the boy"
is
now
big enough to not get lost in my old ones.
(Or are we liable to start it on fire?)
He's also taken my fire place gloves for his forging work...
I figured they would be fine for welding too.

Scrap steel and a solid table with a vice for practicing and
testing
your welds.
Yeah I've got plenty of scrap steel :^)

George H.

Grinder w/flap wheels (the great equalizer for the beginning
welder)

--
Steve W.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Fire...and-courtains/
I used a saturated solution of feed-store alum plus borax to treat
cotton welding curtains. A sample strip hung over an upright
propane
torch flame burned in the flame but only charred above it.
-jsw

Hmm, We used borax to turn toilet paper into non-burnable wadding
for
model rocket launches. Same idea.
Welding will be done out in the barn, (concrete floor) away from the
house.
(neighbors are at least 1/4 mile away.) Is fire that much of a
concern?
Maybe a fire extinguisher for the barn is in order... probably not a
bad idea
even without the welding.

George H.

It's impossible for me to tell from here what your specific risks are.
I have an assortment of water-filled extinguishers around the property
and bring one nearby whenever I'm running an engine out beyond hose
range. So far I've only needed them once, when I saw the old man
across the road lying motionless beside his driveway with the grass
fire his acetylene torch had started creeping toward him.

You probably won't see, smell or hear a fire while you are welding.

-jsw

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 9:43:12 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins
wrote:
.............
I bought my house from a very private man. He didn't want people
pawing through his stuff, so he left it all behind. My tool
collection grew
by a factor of 10 or more. Lotsa wood working stuff, but all sorts
of other
goodies too. (A list would only make you jealous.) I've been
giving or
trading it away to friends and neighbors, but I still have more
"toys"
than I have time to play with.

George H.

You won't make -me- jealous, I have more toys than space to store
them. I wasted the morning digging around for wiring harnesses I made
to test a solar panel controller and then put away until time to
install it, which I've finally gotten to.

http://www.amazon.com/WindyNation-Re.../dp/B015S39PTU
Its price was $19 when I ordered it, $29 on their website the next
day.

-jsw

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 1:39:42 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
wrote in message
...
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten into metal
working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.

I've had two HF automatic hoods. The cheaper one did not easily have a
way
to change the batteries and I destroyed it trying to cut the compartment
open. The more expensive one ($10 or 15 difference) was easy to change
batteries, but I managed to break it after a couple years it was quick
enough to go dark, but was slow to go light when you shut off the arc. I
liked the cheaper one better for that because there are some thin metal
welding methods that really benefit from being able to see the weld
bead/spot very quickly ater the arc shuts off. I bought a Miller
automatic
and I like it fairly well, but I bumped something with it welding under a
trailer, and broke the adjustment knob off. I still use it all the time,
but I can't lighten the shade easily anymore. LOL. Your mileage may
vary.

Regardless of what you decide to use I truly believe an automatic wedling
helmet improved my welding more than anything else except maybe learning
what duty cycle means and that I just need to stop welding and let my
machine cool down when it starts throwing a bad bead whether it has shut
down or not.

That's great, Thanks Bob,
(and Gunner, Rex, Paul, Steve.)
I'm pretty much a welding idiot.
My house came with a Dayton buzz box, (with a mis-wired plug.)
I made a few bad welds, and then two that are ugly,
but still holding, and haven't used it since.
(I guess I better make sure it's still working and
mice haven't made nests everywhere inside.)

Any other essential piece of kit I need?

George H.

Gloves, welding blankets, welding jacket... spare hood so the two of you
can look and learn from each other.

On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 1:11:11 PM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 9:43:12 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins
wrote:
............
I bought my house from a very private man. He didn't want people
pawing through his stuff, so he left it all behind. My tool
collection grew
by a factor of 10 or more. Lotsa wood working stuff, but all sorts
of other
goodies too. (A list would only make you jealous.) I've been
giving or
trading it away to friends and neighbors, but I still have more
"toys"
than I have time to play with.

George H.

You won't make -me- jealous, I have more toys than space to store
them. I wasted the morning digging around for wiring harnesses I made
to test a solar panel controller and then put away until time to
install it, which I've finally gotten to.

Haybine and serious dump trailer went to the neighbor down
the road.. lots of help with various things.
Little cement mixer, planar and industrial size router table with many bits,
to the guy who put on a new roof.
1/2 a dozen other buckets/ box scrapers and rakes that I still
drag around with my tractor.
The coolest thing is 'my' John Deere 400 backhoe.
She is a tired old gal though. At the moment one of the
side arm cylinders has blown it's seal. I'm not sure
if that's something I can fix myself or not.

George H.


http://www.amazon.com/WindyNation-Re.../dp/B015S39PTU
Its price was $19 when I ordered it, $29 on their website the next
day.

-jsw

On 11/18/2015 2:57 PM, wrote:
....

The coolest thing is 'my' John Deere 400 backhoe.
She is a tired old gal though. At the moment one of the
side arm cylinders has blown it's seal. I'm not sure
if that's something I can fix myself or not.
....

Not sure what you're referring to as the "side arm"; one of the bucket
lift cylinders or the rest-steadies or the boom swivel???

Which ever, there should be no _major_ issue in installing a seal kit;
they're threaded but you may need some serious torque to break an oldie
loose...

I did give replacing seals on the JLG 40H 40-ft manlift main extend and
lift cylinders to the Deere shop in town simply 'cuz don't have a crane
arrangement to pull the 174" stroke 2" bore main cylinder out the end of
the boom. They ended up having to take it to the local hydraulics shop
as they weren't able to break the seal nut loose, either. Took the
other shop three days but they finally did get it.

I've done the lift cylinders on the Deere 4440 w/ 148 bucket; they were
a piece o' cake even after almost 30 yr although it's in pretty near
pristine condition for a late '70s tractor...

--

On 11/18/2015 11:55 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 06:02:48 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Got it, thanks. We've got a small angle grinder,
I've mostly been using a reciprocating saw for slicing metal.
If things get serious a chop saw would be nice.



A chop saw is fairly inexpensive at HF, blades are cheap at the same
place or on Ebay. And its a ****load faster than your recip saw. Much
much faster!
...

I have a 12"(?) chop saw that I hardly ever use because it is so messy.
So messy that I take it outside when I do use it.

The recip saw is not so bad with the right blade. For hard steel, a
cut-off wheel in your angle grinder would do.

Bob

On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 18:38:46 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 1:39:42 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
wrote in message
...
Hi all, I'm thinking of getting one or two welding helmets for X-mas.
I've got a Dayton welder in the barn that I've used a little,
with an old flip style helmet. My son (age 14) has gotten into metal
working
and would like to try welding. There are a huge number of options.
Here's one review.
http://www.mrwelderreviews.com/revie...lding-helmets/

From which I'm thinking of the Antra for ~$50, or perhaps the
classic Miller for a bit more.
Your thoughts?

TIA
George H.

I've had two HF automatic hoods. The cheaper one did not easily have a way
to change the batteries and I destroyed it trying to cut the compartment
open. The more expensive one ($10 or 15 difference) was easy to change
batteries, but I managed to break it after a couple years it was quick
enough to go dark, but was slow to go light when you shut off the arc. I
liked the cheaper one better for that because there are some thin metal
welding methods that really benefit from being able to see the weld
bead/spot very quickly ater the arc shuts off. I bought a Miller automatic
and I like it fairly well, but I bumped something with it welding under a
trailer, and broke the adjustment knob off. I still use it all the time,
but I can't lighten the shade easily anymore. LOL. Your mileage may vary.

Regardless of what you decide to use I truly believe an automatic wedling
helmet improved my welding more than anything else except maybe learning
what duty cycle means and that I just need to stop welding and let my
machine cool down when it starts throwing a bad bead whether it has shut
down or not.

That's great, Thanks Bob,
(and Gunner, Rex, Paul, Steve.)
I'm pretty much a welding idiot.
My house came with a Dayton buzz box, (with a mis-wired plug.)
I made a few bad welds, and then two that are ugly,
but still holding, and haven't used it since.
(I guess I better make sure it's still working and
mice haven't made nests everywhere inside.)

Any other essential piece of kit I need?

2 of them: Electrodes and PRACTICE, in that order.

--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson

I think I'd consider some concrete board as a backup. Maybe some
sheet steel behind if it is to be there for a long time.

I don't have one, should consider it. Hard material would grind through
while a saw requires M42 or magic to cut.

Some just work hardens as you saw.

Martin



A chop saw is fairly inexpensive at HF, blades are cheap at the same
place or on Ebay. And its a ****load faster than your recip saw. Much
much faster!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metabo-14-Me...-/351572313826
(note the name?)

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...ult?q=chop+saw

The single biggest issue with a chop saw..put a piece of masonite,
plywood or sheet steel on the wall behind the saw so the trail of
sparks doesnt catch stuff on fire.

Martin Eastburn wrote:
I think I'd consider some concrete board as a backup. Maybe some
sheet steel behind if it is to be there for a long time.

I don't have one, should consider it. Hard material would grind through
while a saw requires M42 or magic to cut.

Some just work hardens as you saw.

Martin


A chop saw is fairly inexpensive at HF, blades are cheap at the same
place or on Ebay. And its a ****load faster than your recip saw. Much
much faster!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metabo-14-Me...-/351572313826
(note the name?)

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...ult?q=chop+saw

The single biggest issue with a chop saw..put a piece of masonite,
plywood or sheet steel on the wall behind the saw so the trail of
sparks doesnt catch stuff on fire.


I've got a band saw, chop saw, cold saw, and an OLD power hacksaw. Each
has it's strong and weak points. The power hack saw does have one unique
quality, on a long cut the even rhythm has made me sleepy!!

--
Steve W.

On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 13:11:35 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 9:43:12 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins
wrote:
............
I bought my house from a very private man. He didn't want people
pawing through his stuff, so he left it all behind. My tool
collection grew
by a factor of 10 or more. Lotsa wood working stuff, but all sorts
of other
goodies too. (A list would only make you jealous.) I've been
giving or
trading it away to friends and neighbors, but I still have more
"toys"
than I have time to play with.

Very cool, George. Congrats.


You won't make -me- jealous, I have more toys than space to store
them. I wasted the morning digging around for wiring harnesses I made
to test a solar panel controller and then put away until time to
install it, which I've finally gotten to.

Why didn't you leave the harness with the controller, duuuuude?


http://www.amazon.com/WindyNation-Re.../dp/B015S39PTU
Its price was $19 when I ordered it, $29 on their website the next
day.

I love beating the price hikes. New vendors on eBay usually put stuff
up for a song to get the feel of pricing, so if you buy one early,
it's 20% of the end price. My backup controller was $13 delivered,
but doesn't have an LCD.

Thinking about moving to a smaller water heater (20g) which can be
heated with lower power elements fed directly from a 24v solar array.
Hot water is nearly half my electric use, which now averages $41/mo.

--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson

On 19-Nov-15 1:48 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 13:11:35 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message

snipped


You won't make -me- jealous, I have more toys than space to store
them. I wasted the morning digging around for wiring harnesses I made
to test a solar panel controller and then put away until time to
install it, which I've finally gotten to.

Why didn't you leave the harness with the controller, duuuuude?


http://www.amazon.com/WindyNation-Re.../dp/B015S39PTU
Its price was $19 when I ordered it, $29 on their website the next
day.

I love beating the price hikes. New vendors on eBay usually put stuff
up for a song to get the feel of pricing, so if you buy one early,
it's 20% of the end price. My backup controller was $13 delivered,
but doesn't have an LCD.

Thinking about moving to a smaller water heater (20g) which can be
heated with lower power elements fed directly from a 24v solar array.
Hot water is nearly half my electric use, which now averages $41/mo.


Sounds cheap, how much is off grid power? I'm guessing you are US based?

We pay about $0.27 per kW.hr here in Australia.






--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson

On 19-Nov-15 1:36 PM, Steve W. wrote:
Martin Eastburn wrote:
I think I'd consider some concrete board as a backup. Maybe some
sheet steel behind if it is to be there for a long time.

I don't have one, should consider it. Hard material would grind through
while a saw requires M42 or magic to cut.

Some just work hardens as you saw.

Martin


A chop saw is fairly inexpensive at HF, blades are cheap at the same
place or on Ebay. And its a ****load faster than your recip saw. Much
much faster!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metabo-14-Me...-/351572313826

(note the name?)

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...ult?q=chop+saw

The single biggest issue with a chop saw..put a piece of masonite,
plywood or sheet steel on the wall behind the saw so the trail of
sparks doesnt catch stuff on fire.


I've got a band saw, chop saw, cold saw, and an OLD power hacksaw. Each
has it's strong and weak points. The power hack saw does have one unique
quality, on a long cut the even rhythm has made me sleepy!!


A chop saw won't have that effect!

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
Martin Eastburn wrote:
I think I'd consider some concrete board as a backup. Maybe some
sheet steel behind if it is to be there for a long time.

I don't have one, should consider it. Hard material would grind
through
while a saw requires M42 or magic to cut.

Some just work hardens as you saw.

Martin


A chop saw is fairly inexpensive at HF, blades are cheap at the
same
place or on Ebay. And its a ****load faster than your recip saw.
Much
much faster!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metabo-14-Me...-/351572313826
(note the name?)

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...ult?q=chop+saw

The single biggest issue with a chop saw..put a piece of masonite,
plywood or sheet steel on the wall behind the saw so the trail of
sparks doesnt catch stuff on fire.


I've got a band saw, chop saw, cold saw, and an OLD power hacksaw.
Each has it's strong and weak points. The power hack saw does have
one unique quality, on a long cut the even rhythm has made me
sleepy!!

--
Steve W.

I think a chop saw might be adequate if you don't have or intend to
buy machine tools to work with steel thicker than hardware store strip
and angle stock.

If you do, a bandsaw cuts through much thicker sections and doesn't
risk hardening carbon steel.

-jsw

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 13:11:35 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 9:43:12 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins
wrote:
............


You won't make -me- jealous, I have more toys than space to store
them. I wasted the morning digging around for wiring harnesses I
made
to test a solar panel controller and then put away until time to
install it, which I've finally gotten to.

Why didn't you leave the harness with the controller, duuuuude?

I put them with this temporarily wired meter.
http://www.amazon.com/6-5-100V-Displ.../dp/B013PKYILS

Thinking about moving to a smaller water heater (20g) which can be
heated with lower power elements fed directly from a 24v solar array.
Hot water is nearly half my electric use, which now averages $41/mo.

I heat water for laundry in kettles on the woodstove.

-jsw

"A2" wrote in message
...
On 19-Nov-15 1:48 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 13:11:35 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message

snipped


Thinking about moving to a smaller water heater (20g) which can be
heated with lower power elements fed directly from a 24v solar
array.
Hot water is nearly half my electric use, which now averages
$41/mo.


Sounds cheap, how much is off grid power? I'm guessing you are US
based?

We pay about $0.27 per kW.hr here in Australia.

Here in New England, USA grid power costs me $0.15 per KWH. My solar
power is really for week-long hurricane or ice storm power outages.
Otherwise it mainly keeps the vehicle batteries topped up so they last
longer. I don't normally cycle batteries because I estimate that the
cost of depreciation is more than the savings.

These extra panels should add enough current to support the TV and
laptop longer during the day. My Harbor Freight kit gave about an hour
of Internet access to email and weather radar per day during the last
outage. Phone line and cellular Internet stayed up on their own backup
supplies.

Weather radar shows me much more accurately than the forecasts when I
can repair storm damage and when I must stop and cover it up.

Unwatched generators attract thieves. I made a sound dampening
enclosure from fireproof acoustic ceiling tiles rimmed with aluminum
flashing but it has to be wide open on one side for ventilation and
doesn't quiet the genny enough that I can't hear it from the street.
The noise is mechanical, an extra muffler makes little difference.

-jsw

On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 17:11:34 +0800, A2 wrote:

On 19-Nov-15 1:48 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 13:11:35 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message

snipped


You won't make -me- jealous, I have more toys than space to store
them. I wasted the morning digging around for wiring harnesses I made
to test a solar panel controller and then put away until time to
install it, which I've finally gotten to.

Why didn't you leave the harness with the controller, duuuuude?


http://www.amazon.com/WindyNation-Re.../dp/B015S39PTU
Its price was $19 when I ordered it, $29 on their website the next
day.

I love beating the price hikes. New vendors on eBay usually put stuff
up for a song to get the feel of pricing, so if you buy one early,
it's 20% of the end price. My backup controller was $13 delivered,
but doesn't have an LCD.

Thinking about moving to a smaller water heater (20g) which can be
heated with lower power elements fed directly from a 24v solar array.
Hot water is nearly half my electric use, which now averages $41/mo.


Sounds cheap, how much is off grid power? I'm guessing you are US based?

Yes, Oregon, USA. It's not so much the cost of off-grid power, it's
the concept of being entirely self-sufficient during the coming grid
crises. 1) The increasing age/fragility of our electrical grid and 2)
terrorism loom just off the bow of our future. The grid has suffered
362 attacks between 2011 and 2015. Granted, some of those are from
kids wanting to see a transformer explode, but look at this article:
http://tinyurl.com/pc9pfyv (Crom, I hate listening to broadcast news,
but it can carry tiny tidbits of actual information.) Metcalf wasn't
a simple attack and cost over $15 million to repair.


We pay about $0.27 per kW.hr here in Australia.

Grid power is just $0.06 here. Thinking of adding another 400W to 1kW
($600-2,200) to the whopping 45W of power I now utilize. Selling
unused assets for it.

--
Cogito, ergo armatum sum.

(I think, therefore I am armed.)

On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 5:17:25 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 11/18/2015 2:57 PM, wrote:
...

The coolest thing is 'my' John Deere 400 backhoe.
She is a tired old gal though. At the moment one of the
side arm cylinders has blown it's seal. I'm not sure
if that's something I can fix myself or not.
...

Not sure what you're referring to as the "side arm"; one of the bucket
lift cylinders or the rest-steadies or the boom swivel???
Sorry the stabilizer cylinder one on each side... fairly small.

Which ever, there should be no _major_ issue in installing a seal kit;
they're threaded but you may need some serious torque to break an oldie
loose...

I did give replacing seals on the JLG 40H 40-ft manlift main extend and
lift cylinders to the Deere shop in town simply 'cuz don't have a crane
arrangement to pull the 174" stroke 2" bore main cylinder out the end of
the boom. They ended up having to take it to the local hydraulics shop
as they weren't able to break the seal nut loose, either. Took the
other shop three days but they finally did get it.

I blew out the crowd cylinder a few years ago.
I took it to the local JD industrial repair shop,
and it was a bit of a nightmare. It took them three tries
(and a good part of the summer.)
to get it installed and not leaking.

George H.

I've done the lift cylinders on the Deere 4440 w/ 148 bucket; they were
a piece o' cake even after almost 30 yr although it's in pretty near
pristine condition for a late '70s tractor...

--

On 11/19/2015 8:47 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 5:17:25 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 11/18/2015 2:57 PM, wrote:
...

The coolest thing is 'my' John Deere 400 backhoe.
She is a tired old gal though. At the moment one of the
side arm cylinders has blown it's seal. I'm not sure
if that's something I can fix myself or not.
...

Not sure what you're referring to as the "side arm"; one of the bucket
lift cylinders or the rest-steadies or the boom swivel???
Sorry the stabilizer cylinder one on each side... fairly small.

Those shouldn't be _too_ bad, but again, if it's been outside forever
and they've been left "as-is" with the environment those tend to operate
in they'll probably be pretty well "growed together"...

Which ever, there should be no _major_ issue in installing a seal kit;
they're threaded but you may need some serious torque to break an oldie
loose...

I did give replacing seals on the JLG 40H 40-ft manlift main extend and
lift cylinders to the Deere shop in town simply 'cuz don't have a crane
arrangement to pull the 174" stroke 2" bore main cylinder out the end of
the boom. They ended up having to take it to the local hydraulics shop
as they weren't able to break the seal nut loose, either. Took the
other shop three days but they finally did get it.

I blew out the crowd cylinder a few years ago.
I took it to the local JD industrial repair shop,
and it was a bit of a nightmare. It took them three tries
(and a good part of the summer.)
to get it installed and not leaking.
....

"Stuff happens" when things are old, particularly...

I'd have taken the lift straight to the hydraulics folks excepting I
don't have a lowboy that'll take it nor do they while the Deere folk do
and pickup/deliver repair work gratis (well, it ain't exactly free but
at least it's in the shop bill ). We deal with them all the time
anyway as well as are working farm....

--

On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 08:36:56 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"A2" wrote in message
...
On 19-Nov-15 1:48 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 13:11:35 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message

snipped


Thinking about moving to a smaller water heater (20g) which can be
heated with lower power elements fed directly from a 24v solar
array.
Hot water is nearly half my electric use, which now averages
$41/mo.


Sounds cheap, how much is off grid power? I'm guessing you are US
based?

We pay about $0.27 per kW.hr here in Australia.

Here in New England, USA grid power costs me $0.15 per KWH. My solar

I forgot to add in the basic charge, so mine costs 11.7 cents per kWh.

power is really for week-long hurricane or ice storm power outages.
Otherwise it mainly keeps the vehicle batteries topped up so they last
longer. I don't normally cycle batteries because I estimate that the
cost of depreciation is more than the savings.

These extra panels should add enough current to support the TV and
laptop longer during the day. My Harbor Freight kit gave about an hour
of Internet access to email and weather radar per day during the last
outage. Phone line and cellular Internet stayed up on their own backup
supplies.

What extra panels are you using? My HF set is only for emer lighting,
and I have 4 lamps set up in the house for it, with 2 backups. I can
also use the little CFLs which came with it, but they suck power. I
picked up three 18w 12v E27 LED lamps for $2 each the other month and
they're extremely bright. They're in the fixtures now, but when an
outage comes, I'll swap them out for the little 3.5w SMD LED bulbs. At
least until I need a whole lot of light for something, like a medical
issue caused by the storm.

HF had a sale on inverters last month and I picked up a 2kW unit which
should be able to drive my electric chain saw, circular saw, recip
saw, or other small tools. All the reviews were positive and said
that they were running table saws, etc. on these units. I have 2 deep
cycle Group 24 batteries for that, and used 2/0 cable between them and
the inverter. I have yet to hook it up and try it.


Weather radar shows me much more accurately than the forecasts when I
can repair storm damage and when I must stop and cover it up.

Do you subscribe to Wunderground? $10 a year keep the ads suppressed.
Their hourly forecasts are pretty accurate.


Unwatched generators attract thieves. I made a sound dampening
enclosure from fireproof acoustic ceiling tiles rimmed with aluminum
flashing but it has to be wide open on one side for ventilation and
doesn't quiet the genny enough that I can't hear it from the street.
The noise is mechanical, an extra muffler makes little difference.

Bury that puppy. The ground makes a really nice sound deadener.
The exhaust smell would be the only giveaway.

--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 08:36:56 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"A2" wrote in message
...
On 19-Nov-15 1:48 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 13:11:35 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message

snipped


Thinking about moving to a smaller water heater (20g) which can
be
heated with lower power elements fed directly from a 24v solar
array.
Hot water is nearly half my electric use, which now averages
$41/mo.


Sounds cheap, how much is off grid power? I'm guessing you are US
based?

We pay about $0.27 per kW.hr here in Australia.

Here in New England, USA grid power costs me $0.15 per KWH. My solar

I forgot to add in the basic charge, so mine costs 11.7 cents per
kWh.

power is really for week-long hurricane or ice storm power outages.
Otherwise it mainly keeps the vehicle batteries topped up so they
last
longer. I don't normally cycle batteries because I estimate that the
cost of depreciation is more than the savings.

These extra panels should add enough current to support the TV and
laptop longer during the day. My Harbor Freight kit gave about an
hour
of Internet access to email and weather radar per day during the
last
outage. Phone line and cellular Internet stayed up on their own
backup
supplies.

What extra panels are you using?

I bought some salvaged monocrystalline panels at a flea market, after
quickly testing them. Although the frames have some corrosion and the
screws are rusty they still put out the current shown on the labels,
but the reverse leakage when shaded is rather high so I added series
Schottky diodes.

The HF kit I bought in 2011 has degraded to about 1.7A, as predicted.



Weather radar shows me much more accurately than the forecasts when
I
can repair storm damage and when I must stop and cover it up.

Do you subscribe to Wunderground? $10 a year keep the ads
suppressed.
Their hourly forecasts are pretty accurate.

NWS radar shows which "scattered" patches of rain or snow are
approaching my house, nearly in real time.
http://radar.weather.gov/ridge/Conus..._lite_loop.php

Unwatched generators attract thieves. I made a sound dampening
enclosure from fireproof acoustic ceiling tiles rimmed with aluminum
flashing but it has to be wide open on one side for ventilation and
doesn't quiet the genny enough that I can't hear it from the street.
The noise is mechanical, an extra muffler makes little difference.

Bury that puppy. The ground makes a really nice sound deadener.
The exhaust smell would be the only giveaway.

You don't understand Granite State soil conditions. Except near rivers
excavation requires dynamite. The last Ice Age scrubbed this place
bare, then deposited a thin layer of sand and rocks as it melted.

-jsw

On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 18:37:04 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

I have 2 deep
cycle Group 24 batteries for that, and used 2/0 cable between them and
the inverter. I have yet to hook it up and try it.
Best be doin that soon...the warranty is running....

On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 07:26:15 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 13:11:35 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 9:43:12 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins
wrote:
............


You won't make -me- jealous, I have more toys than space to store
them. I wasted the morning digging around for wiring harnesses I
made
to test a solar panel controller and then put away until time to
install it, which I've finally gotten to.

Why didn't you leave the harness with the controller, duuuuude?

I put them with this temporarily wired meter.
http://www.amazon.com/6-5-100V-Displ.../dp/B013PKYILS

Picked up one of the little $13 AODE aluminum-cased wattmeters you
mentioned last time, thanks. It works well.


Thinking about moving to a smaller water heater (20g) which can be
heated with lower power elements fed directly from a 24v solar array.
Hot water is nearly half my electric use, which now averages $41/mo.

I heat water for laundry in kettles on the woodstove.

I can't stand wood heat, but may when the SHTF. Need to buy one of
those little guys for $60, JIC. http://tinyurl.com/qdvp8lt

Does anyone _like_ the smell of wood smoke in the house? Then again,
having heat would be A Good Thing(tm), if the natural gas goes out. I
wonder if they keep generators for the nat gas pumps, and how long
they'd last once the pumps quit, if not. Delivery pressure is 1.5psi,
so it may last a long while.

--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson