Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work , I want to
power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill . I have (or have
components to build) controllers and power supplies , can fabricate mounts
and the rest in house . I actually had an 18v HF drill motor all but
mounted , using a PWM controller and a 13.5 volt supply . At the speeds I
need it didn't have enough torque - though I may revisit that setup now that
I can cut gears .
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?
--
Snag
As if I didn't have enough in the works ... but a powered X
on the mill will make some of that a LOT easier!

On 1/28/2015 10:58 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work , I want to
power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill . I have (or have
components to build) controllers and power supplies , can fabricate mounts
and the rest in house . I actually had an 18v HF drill motor all but
mounted , using a PWM controller and a 13.5 volt supply . At the speeds I
need it didn't have enough torque - though I may revisit that setup now that
I can cut gears .
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?

It has been a while since I played around making wheels for belt drives.
We were fooling around with belt drives for small aircraft using VW,
Subaru, and several two cylinder two-strokes.

Chuck modified the cutter to match the tooth profile of a Gates belt and
we made a dozen or so wheels using a manual gear cutter.

In the end, we got a couple of engines running well, but the weight of
even small auto engines was excessive. At least for what we were trying
to do.

The one thing I can remember clearly about cutting belt drive wheels is
- don't back up!

Richard wrote:
On 1/28/2015 10:58 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work ,
I want to power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill . I
have (or have components to build) controllers and power supplies ,
can fabricate mounts and the rest in house . I actually had an 18v
HF drill motor all but mounted , using a PWM controller and a 13.5
volt supply . At the speeds I need it didn't have enough torque -
though I may revisit that setup now that I can cut gears .
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for
cogged belts , anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to
share ?

It has been a while since I played around making wheels for belt
drives. We were fooling around with belt drives for small aircraft
using VW, Subaru, and several two cylinder two-strokes.

Chuck modified the cutter to match the tooth profile of a Gates belt
and we made a dozen or so wheels using a manual gear cutter.

In the end, we got a couple of engines running well, but the weight of
even small auto engines was excessive. At least for what we were
trying to do.

The one thing I can remember clearly about cutting belt drive wheels
is - don't back up!

I'm thinking something much smaller , like a 4mm tooth/notch profile .
--
Snag

On 29/01/15 04:58, Terry Coombs wrote:
Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work , I want to
power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill . I have (or have
components to build) controllers and power supplies , can fabricate mounts
and the rest in house . I actually had an 18v HF drill motor all but
mounted , using a PWM controller and a 13.5 volt supply . At the speeds I
need it didn't have enough torque - though I may revisit that setup now that
I can cut gears .
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?
This article might be of use
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projec...Drive_Mods.pdf

Terry, I only have tiny stepper motors, not NEMA 34 or 23.

i

On 2015-01-29, Terry Coombs wrote:
Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work , I want to
power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill . I have (or have
components to build) controllers and power supplies , can fabricate mounts
and the rest in house . I actually had an 18v HF drill motor all but
mounted , using a PWM controller and a 13.5 volt supply . At the speeds I
need it didn't have enough torque - though I may revisit that setup now that
I can cut gears .
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?

Terry Coombs prodded the keyboard

Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work , I
want to
power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill . I have (or
have components to build) controllers and power supplies , can
fabricate mounts
and the rest in house . I actually had an 18v HF drill motor all
but mounted , using a PWM controller and a 13.5 volt supply . At the
speeds I need it didn't have enough torque - though I may revisit
that setup now that I can cut gears .
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for
cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?
--
Snag
As if I didn't have enough in the works ... but a powered X
on the mill will make some of that a LOT easier!

Have you considered car wiper motors ?

See my build log :-
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=23130
You will need to register to see the pictures.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 22:58:41 -0600, Terry Coombs wrote:

Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work , I want
to power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill . I have (or
have components to build) controllers and power supplies , can fabricate
mounts and the rest in house . I actually had an 18v HF drill motor all
but mounted , using a PWM controller and a 13.5 volt supply . At the
speeds I need it didn't have enough torque - though I may revisit that
setup now that I can cut gears .
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for cogged
belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?

Having worked with stepper motors in space- and power-constrained devices,
I am highly prejudiced against them. That doesn't mean they won't work --
it just means that I've had bad experiences. I much prefer a servo motor
driven by a feedback loop (at least, when I get to design the controller).

Check with Herbach & Rademan (http://www.herbach.com) for motors. They
may not have what you want, but they have lots of stuff in that sort of
size.

For pulleys and belts and whatnot, check Stock Drive products. They
aren't a surplus place, but they have fair to middlin' prices on fair to
middlin' stuff, and they'll have the same thing next year. I've had good
success tossing together mechanisms using their parts.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Baron wrote:
Terry Coombs prodded the keyboard

Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work , I
want to
power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill . I have (or
have components to build) controllers and power supplies , can
fabricate mounts
and the rest in house . I actually had an 18v HF drill motor all
but mounted , using a PWM controller and a 13.5 volt supply . At the
speeds I need it didn't have enough torque - though I may revisit
that setup now that I can cut gears .
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for
cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?
--
Snag
As if I didn't have enough in the works ... but a powered X
on the mill will make some of that a LOT easier!

Have you considered car wiper motors ?

See my build log :-
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=23130
You will need to register to see the pictures.

I have a couple sitting on the shelf , but they both have stripped worm
gears that I can't repair . With the PWM controller I have here now there
may be other options for those too . Thanks for the reminder !

--
Snag

Tim Wescott wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 22:58:41 -0600, Terry Coombs wrote:

Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work , I
want to power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill . I
have (or have components to build) controllers and power supplies ,
can fabricate mounts and the rest in house . I actually had an 18v
HF drill motor all but mounted , using a PWM controller and a 13.5
volt supply . At the speeds I need it didn't have enough torque -
though I may revisit that setup now that I can cut gears .
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for
cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?

Having worked with stepper motors in space- and power-constrained
devices, I am highly prejudiced against them. That doesn't mean they
won't work -- it just means that I've had bad experiences. I much
prefer a servo motor driven by a feedback loop (at least, when I get
to design the controller).

Check with Herbach & Rademan (http://www.herbach.com) for motors.
They may not have what you want, but they have lots of stuff in that
sort of size.

For pulleys and belts and whatnot, check Stock Drive products. They
aren't a surplus place, but they have fair to middlin' prices on fair
to middlin' stuff, and they'll have the same thing next year. I've
had good success tossing together mechanisms using their parts.

Thanks , I'll check that supplier for motors . As far as gears and pulleys
, I'm equipped to make those , from casting the blank in aluminum or brass
to final machining . I have lots more time than money ... and a big pile of
casting stock .

--
Snag

On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 3:17:04 AM UTC-5, David Billington wrote:
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?
This article might be of use
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projec...Drive_Mods.pdf

Thanks for the link. I did not realize making pulleys for cogged belt was so simple.

Dan

On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 10:30:12 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 3:17:04 AM UTC-5, David Billington wrote:
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?
This article might be of use
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projec...Drive_Mods.pdf

Thanks for the link. I did not realize making pulleys for cogged belt was so simple.

Dan
Though to be fair..unless one needs to do the exercise..one can
purchase cogged pulleys and matching belts for very little money

https://www.google.com/search?q=cogged+belts+and+pulleys&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Lots of machinery use them

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 22:58:41 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work , I want to

From $12.99 w/ f/s on eBay http://tinyurl.com/of8584m
How much torque do you need?


power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill . I have (or have
components to build) controllers and power supplies , can fabricate mounts
and the rest in house . I actually had an 18v HF drill motor all but
mounted , using a PWM controller and a 13.5 volt supply . At the speeds I
need it didn't have enough torque - though I may revisit that setup now that
I can cut gears .

Cogs are cheap as dirt online.


And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?

David's link looks like a promising start.

--
If more sane people were armed,
crazy people would get off fewer shots.
Support the 2nd Amendment

Terry Coombs prodded the keyboard

Baron wrote:
Terry Coombs prodded the keyboard

Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work ,
I want to
power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill . I have (or
have components to build) controllers and power supplies , can
fabricate mounts
and the rest in house . I actually had an 18v HF drill motor all
but mounted , using a PWM controller and a 13.5 volt supply . At
the speeds I need it didn't have enough torque - though I may
revisit that setup now that I can cut gears .
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for
cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?
--
Snag
As if I didn't have enough in the works ... but a powered X
on the mill will make some of that a LOT easier!

Have you considered car wiper motors ?

See my build log :-
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=23130
You will need to register to see the pictures.

I have a couple sitting on the shelf , but they both have stripped
worm
gears that I can't repair . With the PWM controller I have here now
there may be other options for those too . Thanks for the reminder !

--
Snag

Hi Terry,
I get my wiper motors from the scrap yard for peanuts. On most of the
ones that I've played with the worm is just pressed onto a splined
shaft.
A PWM controller works just fine with these motors since they are
permag types. I've had mine upto 30 volts for rapid traverse, it
gets barely warm from one end of the table to the other, (762mm).

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

On 29/01/15 18:30, wrote:
On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 3:17:04 AM UTC-5, David Billington wrote:
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?
This article might be of use
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projec...Drive_Mods.pdf
Thanks for the link. I did not realize making pulleys for cogged belt was so simple.

Dan

Those HTD ones aren't bad, I used to know a guy that made the classical
timing belt types on a Fellows gear shaper and they were more difficult
to make by simple means IIRC, of course his speciality was machining
gears and he had the kit. These days with pilot bore ones being quite
cheap I would just buy them and alter them to suit, which I have done on
a few occasions recently.

On 29/01/15 18:18, Terry Coombs wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 22:58:41 -0600, Terry Coombs wrote:

Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work , I
want to power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill . I
have (or have components to build) controllers and power supplies ,
can fabricate mounts and the rest in house . I actually had an 18v
HF drill motor all but mounted , using a PWM controller and a 13.5
volt supply . At the speeds I need it didn't have enough torque -
though I may revisit that setup now that I can cut gears .
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for
cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?
Having worked with stepper motors in space- and power-constrained
devices, I am highly prejudiced against them. That doesn't mean they
won't work -- it just means that I've had bad experiences. I much
prefer a servo motor driven by a feedback loop (at least, when I get
to design the controller).

Check with Herbach & Rademan (http://www.herbach.com) for motors.
They may not have what you want, but they have lots of stuff in that
sort of size.

For pulleys and belts and whatnot, check Stock Drive products. They
aren't a surplus place, but they have fair to middlin' prices on fair
to middlin' stuff, and they'll have the same thing next year. I've
had good success tossing together mechanisms using their parts.
Thanks , I'll check that supplier for motors . As far as gears and pulleys
, I'm equipped to make those , from casting the blank in aluminum or brass
to final machining . I have lots more time than money ... and a big pile of
casting stock .

Do you heat treat the aluminium at all as my limited experience with as
cast items is it is soft and gummy and not nice to machine. A mate that
worked as a designer at a company the made a number of products with
aluminium castings said they always heat treated them, not for strength
reasons, but for machinability as the surface finish achieved was much
better and some other benefits.

On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 11:15:59 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 10:30:12 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 3:17:04 AM UTC-5, David Billington wrote:
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?
This article might be of use
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projec...Drive_Mods.pdf

Thanks for the link. I did not realize making pulleys for cogged belt was so simple.

Dan
Though to be fair..unless one needs to do the exercise..one can
purchase cogged pulleys and matching belts for very little money

https://www.google.com/search?q=cogged+belts+and+pulleys&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Lots of machinery use them

Gunner
=============================

Just had a thought, given the relative ease of fabrication
and availability compared to gears, i. e. no special tooth
cutters.

Many of us on the group have older change gear lathes and
are missing some of the gears. Has anyone done a conversion
to a cogged belt arrangement? If so how did it work out?
What sort of a belt tensioning device did you use? Did you
require multiple belts to cover all the pitches? What
material did you use for the cog pulleys? Would delrin or
nylon work?




--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

David Billington wrote:
On 29/01/15 18:18, Terry Coombs wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 22:58:41 -0600, Terry Coombs wrote:

Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work , I
want to power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill . I
have (or have components to build) controllers and power supplies ,
can fabricate mounts and the rest in house . I actually had an 18v
HF drill motor all but mounted , using a PWM controller and a 13.5
volt supply . At the speeds I need it didn't have enough torque -
though I may revisit that setup now that I can cut gears .
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for
cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?
Having worked with stepper motors in space- and power-constrained
devices, I am highly prejudiced against them. That doesn't mean
they won't work -- it just means that I've had bad experiences. I
much prefer a servo motor driven by a feedback loop (at least, when
I get to design the controller).

Check with Herbach & Rademan (http://www.herbach.com) for motors.
They may not have what you want, but they have lots of stuff in that
sort of size.

For pulleys and belts and whatnot, check Stock Drive products. They
aren't a surplus place, but they have fair to middlin' prices on
fair to middlin' stuff, and they'll have the same thing next year. I've
had good success tossing together mechanisms using their parts.
Thanks , I'll check that supplier for motors . As far as gears
and pulleys , I'm equipped to make those , from casting the blank in
aluminum or brass to final machining . I have lots more time than
money ... and a big pile of casting stock .

Do you heat treat the aluminium at all as my limited experience with
as cast items is it is soft and gummy and not nice to machine. A mate
that worked as a designer at a company the made a number of products
with aluminium castings said they always heat treated them, not for
strength reasons, but for machinability as the surface finish
achieved was much better and some other benefits.

My experience has been that extruded stock makes gummy castings . Material
that was originally cast usually machines just fine . My usual practice is
to dunk the casting in water as soon as it comes out of the mold , this both
helps machineability and helps get residual molding sand off the piece .
Letting a casting stand for a few days also helps , as I understand it
aluminum gets some temper from just aging .

--
Snag

On 29/01/15 22:17, Terry Coombs wrote:
David Billington wrote:
On 29/01/15 18:18, Terry Coombs wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 22:58:41 -0600, Terry Coombs wrote:

Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work , I
want to power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill . I
have (or have components to build) controllers and power supplies ,
can fabricate mounts and the rest in house . I actually had an 18v
HF drill motor all but mounted , using a PWM controller and a 13.5
volt supply . At the speeds I need it didn't have enough torque -
though I may revisit that setup now that I can cut gears .
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for
cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?
Having worked with stepper motors in space- and power-constrained
devices, I am highly prejudiced against them. That doesn't mean
they won't work -- it just means that I've had bad experiences. I
much prefer a servo motor driven by a feedback loop (at least, when
I get to design the controller).

Check with Herbach & Rademan (http://www.herbach.com) for motors.
They may not have what you want, but they have lots of stuff in that
sort of size.

For pulleys and belts and whatnot, check Stock Drive products. They
aren't a surplus place, but they have fair to middlin' prices on
fair to middlin' stuff, and they'll have the same thing next year. I've
had good success tossing together mechanisms using their parts.
Thanks , I'll check that supplier for motors . As far as gears
and pulleys , I'm equipped to make those , from casting the blank in
aluminum or brass to final machining . I have lots more time than
money ... and a big pile of casting stock .

Do you heat treat the aluminium at all as my limited experience with
as cast items is it is soft and gummy and not nice to machine. A mate
that worked as a designer at a company the made a number of products
with aluminium castings said they always heat treated them, not for
strength reasons, but for machinability as the surface finish
achieved was much better and some other benefits.
My experience has been that extruded stock makes gummy castings . Material
that was originally cast usually machines just fine . My usual practice is
to dunk the casting in water as soon as it comes out of the mold , this both
helps machineability and helps get residual molding sand off the piece .
Letting a casting stand for a few days also helps , as I understand it
aluminum gets some temper from just aging .

Sounds like you are doing a basic post cast heat treatment with that
procedure. The castings I've had done were done commercially with a
standard casting alloy, LM25?, and were soft and not nice to machine.

On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 12:15:28 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Baron wrote:
Terry Coombs prodded the keyboard

Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work , I
want to
power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill . I have (or
have components to build) controllers and power supplies , can
fabricate mounts
and the rest in house . I actually had an 18v HF drill motor all
but mounted , using a PWM controller and a 13.5 volt supply . At the
speeds I need it didn't have enough torque - though I may revisit
that setup now that I can cut gears .
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for
cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?
--
Snag
As if I didn't have enough in the works ... but a powered X
on the mill will make some of that a LOT easier!

Have you considered car wiper motors ?

See my build log :-
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=23130
You will need to register to see the pictures.

I have a couple sitting on the shelf , but they both have stripped worm
gears that I can't repair . With the PWM controller I have here now there
may be other options for those too . Thanks for the reminder !
A wiper motor may work if you do not need accuracy and repeatability.
The beauty of a stepper is you can control rate of feed ACCURATELY,
and also control the actual distance the drive moves the feed.

On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 16:17:36 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

David Billington wrote:
On 29/01/15 18:18, Terry Coombs wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 22:58:41 -0600, Terry Coombs wrote:

Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work , I
want to power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill . I
have (or have components to build) controllers and power supplies ,
can fabricate mounts and the rest in house . I actually had an 18v
HF drill motor all but mounted , using a PWM controller and a 13.5
volt supply . At the speeds I need it didn't have enough torque -
though I may revisit that setup now that I can cut gears .
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for
cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?
Having worked with stepper motors in space- and power-constrained
devices, I am highly prejudiced against them. That doesn't mean
they won't work -- it just means that I've had bad experiences. I
much prefer a servo motor driven by a feedback loop (at least, when
I get to design the controller).

Check with Herbach & Rademan (http://www.herbach.com) for motors.
They may not have what you want, but they have lots of stuff in that
sort of size.

For pulleys and belts and whatnot, check Stock Drive products. They
aren't a surplus place, but they have fair to middlin' prices on
fair to middlin' stuff, and they'll have the same thing next year. I've
had good success tossing together mechanisms using their parts.
Thanks , I'll check that supplier for motors . As far as gears
and pulleys , I'm equipped to make those , from casting the blank in
aluminum or brass to final machining . I have lots more time than
money ... and a big pile of casting stock .

Do you heat treat the aluminium at all as my limited experience with
as cast items is it is soft and gummy and not nice to machine. A mate
that worked as a designer at a company the made a number of products
with aluminium castings said they always heat treated them, not for
strength reasons, but for machinability as the surface finish
achieved was much better and some other benefits.

My experience has been that extruded stock makes gummy castings . Material
that was originally cast usually machines just fine . My usual practice is
to dunk the casting in water as soon as it comes out of the mold , this both
helps machineability and helps get residual molding sand off the piece .
Letting a casting stand for a few days also helps , as I understand it
aluminum gets some temper from just aging .
It really all depends on what your smelting stock is. What alloy are
you casting? If you start with 6061, you will get a machineable,
weldable casting. If you start with 3000 series aluminum, you will get
bubblegum.
6061 age hardens.

fired this volley in
:

The beauty of a stepper is you can control rate of feed ACCURATELY,
and also control the actual distance the drive moves the feed.



And you can't with a servo? Really?
Lloyd

wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 16:17:36 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

David Billington wrote:
On 29/01/15 18:18, Terry Coombs wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 22:58:41 -0600, Terry Coombs wrote:

Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work ,
I want to power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill .
I have (or have components to build) controllers and power
supplies , can fabricate mounts and the rest in house . I
actually had an 18v HF drill motor all but mounted , using a PWM
controller and a 13.5 volt supply . At the speeds I need it
didn't have enough torque - though I may revisit that setup now
that I can cut gears . And speaking of cutting gears , how
about cutting pulleys for cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?
Having worked with stepper motors in space- and power-constrained
devices, I am highly prejudiced against them. That doesn't mean
they won't work -- it just means that I've had bad experiences. I
much prefer a servo motor driven by a feedback loop (at least,
when
I get to design the controller).

Check with Herbach & Rademan (http://www.herbach.com) for motors.
They may not have what you want, but they have lots of stuff in
that sort of size.

For pulleys and belts and whatnot, check Stock Drive products.
They aren't a surplus place, but they have fair to middlin'
prices on
fair to middlin' stuff, and they'll have the same thing next
year. I've had good success tossing together mechanisms using
their parts.
Thanks , I'll check that supplier for motors . As far as gears
and pulleys , I'm equipped to make those , from casting the blank
in aluminum or brass to final machining . I have lots more time
than money ... and a big pile of casting stock .

Do you heat treat the aluminium at all as my limited experience with
as cast items is it is soft and gummy and not nice to machine. A
mate that worked as a designer at a company the made a number of
products with aluminium castings said they always heat treated
them, not for strength reasons, but for machinability as the
surface finish achieved was much better and some other benefits.

My experience has been that extruded stock makes gummy castings .
Material that was originally cast usually machines just fine . My
usual practice is to dunk the casting in water as soon as it comes
out of the mold , this both helps machineability and helps get
residual molding sand off the piece . Letting a casting stand for a
few days also helps , as I understand it aluminum gets some temper
from just aging .
It really all depends on what your smelting stock is. What alloy are
you casting? If you start with 6061, you will get a machineable,
weldable casting. If you start with 3000 series aluminum, you will get
bubblegum.
6061 age hardens.

So does A356 - as do most aluminum alloys to some degree . That
soft/stretchiness of the 3000 series is one of the attributes desired for
stamping and other cold forming ops isn't it ?

--
Snag

On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 19:05:15 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

fired this volley in
:

The beauty of a stepper is you can control rate of feed ACCURATELY,
and also control the actual distance the drive moves the feed.



And you can't with a servo? Really?
Lloyd
Sure you can - but a windshield wiper motor???

fired this volley in
:

Sure you can - but a windshield wiper motor???

With feedback? You betcha!
I not only _could_, I have (yes, with a wiper motor).

LLoyd

On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 19:05:15 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

fired this volley in
:

The beauty of a stepper is you can control rate of feed ACCURATELY,
and also control the actual distance the drive moves the feed.

And you can't with a servo? Really?

Since when were wiper motors made with servos, Lloyd?
Apples and Lambos.

--
If more sane people were armed,
crazy people would get off fewer shots.
Support the 2nd Amendment

On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 20:41:42 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

fired this volley in
:

Sure you can - but a windshield wiper motor???

With feedback? You betcha!
I not only _could_, I have (yes, with a wiper motor).

LLoyd
Not saying it's not possible, but more complex than necessary to get
the required or desired accuracy

On 1/29/2015 10:05 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 19:05:15 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

fired this volley in
:

The beauty of a stepper is you can control rate of feed ACCURATELY,
and also control the actual distance the drive moves the feed.

And you can't with a servo? Really?

Since when were wiper motors made with servos, Lloyd?
Apples and Lambos.

--
If more sane people were armed,
crazy people would get off fewer shots.
Support the 2nd Amendment



Add a feedback loop, and you have a servo.

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

Since when were wiper motors made with servos, Lloyd?
Apples and Lambos.

Um... I didn't say they were. They can be made INTO servos quite easily,
and if you have an application that won't mind the inherent backlash in the
geartrain, they're quite powerful and quite inexpensive for the torque
they'll put out.

Lloyd

Richard fired this volley in
:

Add a feedback loop, and you have a servo.

Yup... but so many people are into "buy instead of make", they cannot see
that.

Lloyd

On 2015-01-30, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Um... I didn't say they were. They can be made INTO servos quite easily,
and if you have an application that won't mind the inherent backlash in the
geartrain, they're quite powerful and quite inexpensive for the torque
they'll put out.

My own thinking is, if you are smart enought to make a servo out of a
wiper motor and adapt it to a milling machine, you should be able to
make enough money in less time to simply buy proper equipment.

i

On Fri, 30 Jan 2015 06:38:20 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

Since when were wiper motors made with servos, Lloyd?
Apples and Lambos.

Um... I didn't say they were.

Well, he said "wiper motor" and you said "servo", so it was
implied/inferred.


They can be made INTO servos quite easily,
and if you have an application that won't mind the inherent backlash in the
geartrain, they're quite powerful and quite inexpensive for the torque
they'll put out.

Aren't most power runs usually just removing background field
material? I would think that backlash wouldn't matter for many runs,
though I don't see where backlash would come into it during a run. It
would have constant feed, right, with limiters cutting off power at
the end of the run?

--
If more sane people were armed,
crazy people would get off fewer shots.
Support the 2nd Amendment

On Fri, 30 Jan 2015 06:39:20 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Richard fired this volley in
:

Add a feedback loop, and you have a servo.

Yup... but so many people are into "buy instead of make", they cannot see
that.

Quite often true, but it can also depend on which they have more of:
money or time. Lack of time can play heavily into that decision. So
can the need (or wish) to learn a machining procedure/method.

I'll buy an HF tool to do a quick one-off job. But if I see that down
the line I'll need it quite often, I'll either make a better one (if
possible) or buy the better brand-name tool for it. That brings value
into the equation, too. Those of us with less money are very familiar
with this aspect.

--
If more sane people were armed,
crazy people would get off fewer shots.
Support the 2nd Amendment

On Fri, 30 Jan 2015 06:51:47 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2015 06:39:20 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Richard fired this volley in
:

Add a feedback loop, and you have a servo.

Yup... but so many people are into "buy instead of make", they cannot see
that.

Quite often true, but it can also depend on which they have more of:
money or time. Lack of time can play heavily into that decision. So
can the need (or wish) to learn a machining procedure/method.

I'll buy an HF tool to do a quick one-off job. But if I see that down
the line I'll need it quite often, I'll either make a better one (if
possible) or buy the better brand-name tool for it. That brings value
into the equation, too. Those of us with less money are very familiar
with this aspect.

It doesn't make much sense to turn a hobby into a religion. Those of
us who take the "recreational" part seriously should have an easy
answer: if you find it pleasurable to do so, then make it. If it's a
chore and if the option to buy is reasonable, then buy it.

Like most people here, I've often made things that made no sense to
make, and then took a brief pleasure in having done so, for several
reasons. Then, if reason slipped into my consciousness at some later
point, asking "why in the hell did I do that?," I sigh and swear to
think first, the next time, before sucking up precious hours to
satisfy some atavistic urge that made as much sense as tailoring my
own underwear. d8-)

Or, as we said in the '60s, "If it feels good, do it."

--
Ed Huntress

On 29/01/15 14:46, Baron wrote:
Terry Coombs prodded the keyboard

Got any stepper motors for cheep? I think nema 34's will work , I
want to
power the X axis and maybe the Y on my benchtop mill . I have (or
have components to build) controllers and power supplies , can
fabricate mounts
and the rest in house . I actually had an 18v HF drill motor all
but mounted , using a PWM controller and a 13.5 volt supply . At the
speeds I need it didn't have enough torque - though I may revisit
that setup now that I can cut gears .
And speaking of cutting gears , how about cutting pulleys for
cogged belts
, anybody got experience doing that that they'd like to share ?
--
Snag
As if I didn't have enough in the works ... but a powered X
on the mill will make some of that a LOT easier!
Have you considered car wiper motors ?

See my build log :-
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=23130
You will need to register to see the pictures.

One issue with typical wiper motors is they're only intended to rotate
in one direction and in my experience don't run as well in the reverse
direction. The few I have taken apart only have thrust provision for the
intended direction. I have used them to run in both direction and it
worked OK. Window winder motors are bidirectional and have thrust pads
at both end of the shaft on the ones I've dismantled.

Ed Huntress fired this volley in
:

Those of
us who take the "recreational" part seriously should have an easy
answer: if you find it pleasurable to do so, then make it. If it's a
chore and if the option to buy is reasonable, then buy it.


Yeah, I'll go along with that.

Lloyd

On Fri, 30 Jan 2015 08:07:40 -0600, Ignoramus8636
wrote:

On 2015-01-30, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Um... I didn't say they were. They can be made INTO servos quite easily,
and if you have an application that won't mind the inherent backlash in the
geartrain, they're quite powerful and quite inexpensive for the torque
they'll put out.

My own thinking is, if you are smart enought to make a servo out of a
wiper motor and adapt it to a milling machine, you should be able to
make enough money in less time to simply buy proper equipment.

i
Changing a wiper motor into a servo motor only requires a feedback
device. An encoder will do. The wiper motor will probably not make a
very good servo motor though because there are not many segments in
the commutator compared to a motor designed for servo use.
Eric

fired this volley in
:

The wiper motor will probably not make a
very good servo motor though because there are not many segments in
the commutator compared to a motor designed for servo use.

Think "commutator segments per revolution". They're geared WAY down.

Lloyd

Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jan 2015 06:51:47 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2015 06:39:20 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Richard fired this volley in
:

Add a feedback loop, and you have a servo.

Yup... but so many people are into "buy instead of make", they
cannot see that.

Quite often true, but it can also depend on which they have more of:
money or time. Lack of time can play heavily into that decision. So
can the need (or wish) to learn a machining procedure/method.

I'll buy an HF tool to do a quick one-off job. But if I see that
down the line I'll need it quite often, I'll either make a better
one (if possible) or buy the better brand-name tool for it. That
brings value into the equation, too. Those of us with less money
are very familiar with this aspect.

It doesn't make much sense to turn a hobby into a religion. Those of
us who take the "recreational" part seriously should have an easy
answer: if you find it pleasurable to do so, then make it. If it's a
chore and if the option to buy is reasonable, then buy it.

Like most people here, I've often made things that made no sense to
make, and then took a brief pleasure in having done so, for several
reasons. Then, if reason slipped into my consciousness at some later
point, asking "why in the hell did I do that?," I sigh and swear to
think first, the next time, before sucking up precious hours to
satisfy some atavistic urge that made as much sense as tailoring my
own underwear. d8-)

Or, as we said in the '60s, "If it feels good, do it."

I took great pleasure in the building of both my Holes Creek ball turner
for the lathe and my home made boring head for the mill . I get even more
pleasure out of using them .
--
Snag

prodded the keyboard

On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 20:41:42 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

fired this volley in
m:

Sure you can - but a windshield wiper motor???

With feedback? You betcha!
I not only _could_, I have (yes, with a wiper motor).

LLoyd
Not saying it's not possible, but more complex than necessary to get
the required or desired accuracy

Its no more hard or complex than any other servo system. Have a look
at how the printer manufacturers do it !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com prodded the
keyboard

Ed Huntress fired this volley in
:

Those of
us who take the "recreational" part seriously should have an easy
answer: if you find it pleasurable to do so, then make it. If it's
a chore and if the option to buy is reasonable, then buy it.


Yeah, I'll go along with that.

Lloyd

+1
--
Best Regards:
Baron.