Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Stainless rust removal redux

Hi,

I took note of the recent discussion concerning stainless steel and
removing rust. Kept several good posts (thank you Ed, Carl...) for
future reference.

A friend of mine kind of neglected his stainless revolver a bit too
long and it has developed little rust spots here and there. Here are a
few links to images that illustrate the problem:

http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_overall-1.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-0.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-1.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-2.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-3.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-4.jpeg

A gunsmith friend thought bead-blasting it would be the best cure but
the citric acid treatment sounded interesting to me. Neither of us
care to try messing around with nitric acid. Mechanical means, buffing
and such would probably be quite noticeable I think compared to the rest
of the finish.

Any suggestions? Or would the best course be to just leave it alone,
chalk it up as a lesson that stainless steel isn't necessarily
carefree

I also wondered it electrolytic derusting works on stainless too. I
remember people discussing the use of stainless for an electrode and
toxic gas it would generate but not trying to derust the stainless
piece itself. And how would that affect what was passivized? I've used
electrolytic before on a few items with impressive results but
nothing stainless. Messy as heck but it doesn't really generate any
dangerous byproducts to dispose of.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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Default Stainless rust removal redux

Unfortunately, citric acid doesn't remove rust. It would be a great last
step to repassivate everything after whatever else you do. Bead blasting
with glass beads will definitely leave a matte finish. Never done it, but
soda blasting may not hurt the finish and should remove the rust. You could
try wiping in an out of sight area with BarKeepers Friend, which is supposed
to remove rust, or maybe a dab of Naval Jelly or other phosphoric acid
product, to see what the effect on the finish will be before doing the
entire outside.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames
"Leon Fisk" wrote in message ...

Hi,

I took note of the recent discussion concerning stainless steel and
removing rust. Kept several good posts (thank you Ed, Carl...) for
future reference.

A friend of mine kind of neglected his stainless revolver a bit too
long and it has developed little rust spots here and there. Here are a
few links to images that illustrate the problem:

http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_overall-1.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-0.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-1.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-2.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-3.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-4.jpeg

A gunsmith friend thought bead-blasting it would be the best cure but
the citric acid treatment sounded interesting to me. Neither of us
care to try messing around with nitric acid. Mechanical means, buffing
and such would probably be quite noticeable I think compared to the rest
of the finish.

Any suggestions? Or would the best course be to just leave it alone,
chalk it up as a lesson that stainless steel isn't necessarily
carefree

I also wondered it electrolytic derusting works on stainless too. I
remember people discussing the use of stainless for an electrode and
toxic gas it would generate but not trying to derust the stainless
piece itself. And how would that affect what was passivized? I've used
electrolytic before on a few items with impressive results but
nothing stainless. Messy as heck but it doesn't really generate any
dangerous byproducts to dispose of.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email


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Default Stainless rust removal redux

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 14:20:24 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

Unfortunately, citric acid doesn't remove rust. It would be a great last
step to repassivate everything after whatever else you do. Bead blasting
with glass beads will definitely leave a matte finish. Never done it, but
soda blasting may not hurt the finish and should remove the rust. You could
try wiping in an out of sight area with BarKeepers Friend, which is supposed
to remove rust, or maybe a dab of Naval Jelly or other phosphoric acid
product, to see what the effect on the finish will be before doing the
entire outside.


Hit the area with a fine ScotsBrite pad to knock off the rust...THEN
if you want... pickle it with citric acid. Most...most..most boat
hardware is made of 316 so it seldom rusts, even in salt water..but it
certainly will discolor. But frankly..Id persoally just wipe it down
with a good gun "oil" after scrubbing off the rust and leave her be.

Ruger tends to use 416 and 410 stainless steels in their weapons.
-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames
"Leon Fisk" wrote in message ...

Hi,

I took note of the recent discussion concerning stainless steel and
removing rust. Kept several good posts (thank you Ed, Carl...) for
future reference.

A friend of mine kind of neglected his stainless revolver a bit too
long and it has developed little rust spots here and there. Here are a
few links to images that illustrate the problem:

http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_overall-1.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-0.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-1.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-2.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-3.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-4.jpeg

A gunsmith friend thought bead-blasting it would be the best cure but
the citric acid treatment sounded interesting to me. Neither of us
care to try messing around with nitric acid. Mechanical means, buffing
and such would probably be quite noticeable I think compared to the rest
of the finish.

Any suggestions? Or would the best course be to just leave it alone,
chalk it up as a lesson that stainless steel isn't necessarily
carefree

I also wondered it electrolytic derusting works on stainless too. I
remember people discussing the use of stainless for an electrode and
toxic gas it would generate but not trying to derust the stainless
piece itself. And how would that affect what was passivized? I've used
electrolytic before on a few items with impressive results but
nothing stainless. Messy as heck but it doesn't really generate any
dangerous byproducts to dispose of.


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke
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Default Stainless rust removal redux

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 12:26:05 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 14:20:24 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

Unfortunately, citric acid doesn't remove rust. It would be a great last
step to repassivate everything after whatever else you do. Bead blasting
with glass beads will definitely leave a matte finish. Never done it, but
soda blasting may not hurt the finish and should remove the rust. You could
try wiping in an out of sight area with BarKeepers Friend, which is supposed
to remove rust, or maybe a dab of Naval Jelly or other phosphoric acid
product, to see what the effect on the finish will be before doing the
entire outside.


Hit the area with a fine ScotsBrite pad to knock off the rust...


Real Scotchbrite contains silicon cabide abrasive. It will leave the
gun with a brushed look.

If it already has such a finish, no problem. If not, it will be
noticeable, and he may not like the result.



THEN
if you want... pickle it with citric acid. Most...most..most boat
hardware is made of 316 so it seldom rusts, even in salt water..but it
certainly will discolor. But frankly..Id persoally just wipe it down
with a good gun "oil" after scrubbing off the rust and leave her be.

Ruger tends to use 416 and 410 stainless steels in their weapons.
-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames
"Leon Fisk" wrote in message ...

Hi,

I took note of the recent discussion concerning stainless steel and
removing rust. Kept several good posts (thank you Ed, Carl...) for
future reference.

A friend of mine kind of neglected his stainless revolver a bit too
long and it has developed little rust spots here and there. Here are a
few links to images that illustrate the problem:

http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_overall-1.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-0.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-1.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-2.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-3.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-4.jpeg

A gunsmith friend thought bead-blasting it would be the best cure but
the citric acid treatment sounded interesting to me. Neither of us
care to try messing around with nitric acid. Mechanical means, buffing
and such would probably be quite noticeable I think compared to the rest
of the finish.

Any suggestions? Or would the best course be to just leave it alone,
chalk it up as a lesson that stainless steel isn't necessarily
carefree

I also wondered it electrolytic derusting works on stainless too. I
remember people discussing the use of stainless for an electrode and
toxic gas it would generate but not trying to derust the stainless
piece itself. And how would that affect what was passivized? I've used
electrolytic before on a few items with impressive results but
nothing stainless. Messy as heck but it doesn't really generate any
dangerous byproducts to dispose of.


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

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Default Stainless rust removal redux

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 14:20:24 -0400
"Carl Ijames" wrote:

Unfortunately, citric acid doesn't remove rust. It would be a great last
step to repassivate everything after whatever else you do. Bead blasting
with glass beads will definitely leave a matte finish. Never done it, but
soda blasting may not hurt the finish and should remove the rust. You could
try wiping in an out of sight area with BarKeepers Friend, which is supposed
to remove rust, or maybe a dab of Naval Jelly or other phosphoric acid
product, to see what the effect on the finish will be before doing the
entire outside.


Guess I was hoping it would. I remember wondering about that (removing
rust) when I was reading your post. That's why I'm asking and thanks
for the reply

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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Default Stainless rust removal redux

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 12:26:05 -0700
Gunner Asch wrote:

snip
Hit the area with a fine ScotsBrite pad to knock off the rust...THEN
if you want... pickle it with citric acid. Most...most..most boat
hardware is made of 316 so it seldom rusts, even in salt water..but it
certainly will discolor. But frankly..Id persoally just wipe it down
with a good gun "oil" after scrubbing off the rust and leave her be.

Ruger tends to use 416 and 410 stainless steels in their weapons.


Smith & Wesson, .45

Owner has already went over it pretty good with Hoppes... So it needs
a bit more of something.

I've played the game before with stainless and anything abrasive.
Either put up with the new pattern, go over the whole piece or maybe
just leave it be (shrug). I was hoping for an idea/solution that didn't
mess up the current brush job or texture...

Thanks for the input though!

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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Default Stainless rust removal redux

Use oxalic acid. It'll remove the rust spots with minimal disturbance to
the surface.

Paul K. Dickman
"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I took note of the recent discussion concerning stainless steel and
removing rust. Kept several good posts (thank you Ed, Carl...) for
future reference.

A friend of mine kind of neglected his stainless revolver a bit too
long and it has developed little rust spots here and there. Here are a
few links to images that illustrate the problem:

http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_overall-1.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-0.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-1.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-2.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-3.jpeg
http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/rust_detail-4.jpeg

A gunsmith friend thought bead-blasting it would be the best cure but
the citric acid treatment sounded interesting to me. Neither of us
care to try messing around with nitric acid. Mechanical means, buffing
and such would probably be quite noticeable I think compared to the rest
of the finish.

Any suggestions? Or would the best course be to just leave it alone,
chalk it up as a lesson that stainless steel isn't necessarily
carefree

I also wondered it electrolytic derusting works on stainless too. I
remember people discussing the use of stainless for an electrode and
toxic gas it would generate but not trying to derust the stainless
piece itself. And how would that affect what was passivized? I've used
electrolytic before on a few items with impressive results but
nothing stainless. Messy as heck but it doesn't really generate any
dangerous byproducts to dispose of.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email



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Default Stainless rust removal redux

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 15:34:10 -0500
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote:

Use oxalic acid. It'll remove the rust spots with minimal disturbance to
the surface.


Bar Keepers Friend main ingredient is oxalic acid. Good source? or is
there a better one?

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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Default Stainless rust removal redux

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 15:43:53 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 12:26:05 -0700
Gunner Asch wrote:

snip
Hit the area with a fine ScotsBrite pad to knock off the rust...THEN
if you want... pickle it with citric acid. Most...most..most boat
hardware is made of 316 so it seldom rusts, even in salt water..but it
certainly will discolor. But frankly..Id persoally just wipe it down
with a good gun "oil" after scrubbing off the rust and leave her be.

Ruger tends to use 416 and 410 stainless steels in their weapons.


Smith & Wesson, .45

Owner has already went over it pretty good with Hoppes... So it needs
a bit more of something.

I've played the game before with stainless and anything abrasive.
Either put up with the new pattern, go over the whole piece or maybe
just leave it be (shrug). I was hoping for an idea/solution that didn't
mess up the current brush job or texture...

Thanks for the input though!



http://www.stylemepretty.com/living/...ainless-steel/

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-241677.html

etc etc

If its simple SMALL rust spots..scratch off the rust with the edge of
a new penny. Then clean off the zinc. (Grin)

Smiths tend to develope small spots of rust as the last link will
show. And if you buy a FINE scotsbrite pad..even the kind for the
kitchen sink cleaning and put your finger on the pad and then on the
rust spot and jiggle (Grin)..the rust goes away pretty quickly. You
will probably get shiney spots where you rubbed the rust off..but it
afterall IS a handgun..not a centerpiece....so it shouldnt bother you
much and they go away pretty quickly as the gun is used.

Ive got several stainless guns and Ive had the odd bit of rust show up
(using surplus Euro ammo/primers etc and simply ignoring it..and
putting them away damp and forgetting about em..sigh) so Ive had to
deal with rust spots a time or two over the years.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke
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Default Stainless rust removal redux

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 16:44:31 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 15:34:10 -0500
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote:

Use oxalic acid. It'll remove the rust spots with minimal disturbance to
the surface.


Bar Keepers Friend main ingredient is oxalic acid. Good source? or is
there a better one?


Good source. It also contains IRRC a very fine abrasive..so you are
back to shiney spots..but very light ones.


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke


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Default Stainless rust removal redux


"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 15:34:10 -0500
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote:

Use oxalic acid. It'll remove the rust spots with minimal disturbance to
the surface.


Bar Keepers Friend main ingredient is oxalic acid. Good source? or is
there a better one?


Its most common use is as a wood bleach.
If you check the deck cleaners for wooden decks it is pretty much Oxalic
acid.

Savogran sells 1lb tubs of granular for $6 at hardware stores.

Paul K. Dickman


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Default Stainless rust removal redux

On Monday, October 27, 2014 2:21:07 PM UTC-4, Carl Ijames wrote:
Unfortunately, citric acid doesn't remove rust. It would be a great last
step to repassivate everything after whatever else you do.


I am under the impression that citric acid does remove rust.


But one test is worth a thousand words. So I would recommend that you first try citric acid on some ordinary rusty steel and see if you think it removes rust. Then on some stainless with rust spots if you can find some.

You can find food grade citric acid at Tractor Supply. It is used to clean stainless tubing in milking systems.

Dan
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Default Stainless rust removal redux

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 16:03:35 -0500, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 15:34:10 -0500
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote:

Use oxalic acid. It'll remove the rust spots with minimal disturbance to
the surface.


Bar Keepers Friend main ingredient is oxalic acid. Good source? or is
there a better one?


Its most common use is as a wood bleach.
If you check the deck cleaners for wooden decks it is pretty much Oxalic
acid.

Savogran sells 1lb tubs of granular for $6 at hardware stores.

Paul K. Dickman

We used to use that stuff on personal clothes in the mag cell. The
little bit of chlorine that would leak out eventually ended up as
hydrochloric acid on the metal frame of the building, so any
condensation drips would stain your clothing. That's why I didn't go
on the operating floor without putting on the mag suit (fire retardent
cotton overalls and jumper, metatarsal guard boots, and hard hat with
face shield). Oxalic would fix those stains.

Also used it once on a white cotton sweater my sister brought home
from Egypt and made the mistake of washing in my folks' iron laden
water. Nice even light rust shade.

Good luck.

Pete Keillor
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Default Stainless rust removal redux

I've tried rubbing with a citric acid paste (teaspoon of citric acid powder,
drops of water to make thick paste), scrubbing with a paper towel and my 10%
warm citric acid passivation solution, and soaking overnight with agitation
in the 10% solution, and had zero luck removing orange red Fe2O3 rust spots
or the blue to orange film from welding on 304SS. I would soak small pieces
of 304SS in salt water until I got rust when testing the passivation
procedure, then I tried to get rid of that rust and the welding scale from
beads across my test pieces, with zero luck. If you make it work, please
post how. Oxalic acid will, which is why I suggested BarKeepersFriend.
Wasn't sure it had abrasive, which is why I suggested testing in a
non-visible site. Under the handgrip would be good. Start by just dripping
some on and let it soak, you may not have to rub at all in which case the
abrasive won't matter. I guess I never tried citric acid on rusty mild
steel, so can't say if that works or not but my strong expectation is not.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

wrote in message
...

On Monday, October 27, 2014 2:21:07 PM UTC-4, Carl Ijames wrote:
Unfortunately, citric acid doesn't remove rust. It would be a great last
step to repassivate everything after whatever else you do.


I am under the impression that citric acid does remove rust.


But one test is worth a thousand words. So I would recommend that you first
try citric acid on some ordinary rusty steel and see if you think it removes
rust. Then on some stainless with rust spots if you can find some.

You can find food grade citric acid at Tractor Supply. It is used to clean
stainless tubing in milking systems.

Dan


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Default Stainless rust removal redux

I think the rust occurs BECAUSE iron particles have been exposed, else there wouldn't be any rust, right? Isn't the whole idea of a stainless steel that a chrome oxide of some sort forms over the surface and sorta covers up any carbon or iron particles?
So, if rust forms, it means that something has removed the chrome oxide and uncovered the iron, yes?
So I think you have to get the iron GONE and then allow the chrome to oxidize again to prevent further rust.

I'd vote for a try with the Barkeeper's friend, using the oxalic acid to eat the iron. As said previously, try in on an out of sight area.

I have tried citric acid on stainless steel that I have hot forged. when hot forging stainless steel, two problems occur since we are seriously disturbing the chrome oxide coating:
-iron particles come become exposed (and they rust later)
-carbon particle become exposed (and they stay black forever)
While the citric acid may have some effect on both issues, it is miserably slow in my limited experience. The oxalic acid that I use for cleaning erector set girders works slowly too, but a lot faster than does citric acid.

Pete Stanaitis
--------------


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Default Stainless rust removal redux

On 10/27/2014 12:43 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 12:26:05 -0700
Gunner Asch wrote:

snip
Hit the area with a fine ScotsBrite pad to knock off the rust...THEN
if you want... pickle it with citric acid. Most...most..most boat
hardware is made of 316 so it seldom rusts, even in salt water..but it
certainly will discolor. But frankly..Id persoally just wipe it down
with a good gun "oil" after scrubbing off the rust and leave her be.

Ruger tends to use 416 and 410 stainless steels in their weapons.


Smith & Wesson, .45

Owner has already went over it


"has already went [sic] over it..." Illiterate.

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Default Stainless rust removal redux

When you are hot forging, are you using stainless steel hammers and a SS
anvil? If not, you are embedding iron from your tooling in the surface of
the SS, which then leads to rust pits later if it isn't removed, or it can
get transferred to the interior if you fold the metal, and then come back to
the surface by later machining. Same problem if you use a carbon steel wire
brush, or a SS wire brush that has been used on mild steel, or mill and/or
lathe tooling that was used on mild steel first. Citric acid will remove
free iron from the surface but won't take off rust that has already formed.
I think you need a stronger acid pickle after hot forging, then do citric
acid passivation. Oxalic acid might be enough, but a quick hydrochloric
acid (or nitric if you can get it) wash might be needed. Another technique
that hasn't been mentioned is electropolishing. It will clean and passivate
and polish the surface all at one time but is generally limited to the
outside surface, it does not penetrate down holes. It will remove up to a
few 0.001" from a flat surface and can take lots more off of a sharp edge if
you go too long. It works well on small pieces but it is hard to get a
uniform surface finish on large irregular surfaces.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames
wrote in message
...

I think the rust occurs BECAUSE iron particles have been exposed, else there
wouldn't be any rust, right? Isn't the whole idea of a stainless steel that
a chrome oxide of some sort forms over the surface and sorta covers up any
carbon or iron particles?
So, if rust forms, it means that something has removed the chrome oxide
and uncovered the iron, yes?
So I think you have to get the iron GONE and then allow the chrome to
oxidize again to prevent further rust.

I'd vote for a try with the Barkeeper's friend, using the oxalic acid to eat
the iron. As said previously, try in on an out of sight area.

I have tried citric acid on stainless steel that I have hot forged. when
hot forging stainless steel, two problems occur since we are seriously
disturbing the chrome oxide coating:
-iron particles come become exposed (and they rust later)
-carbon particle become exposed (and they stay black forever)
While the citric acid may have some effect on both issues, it is miserably
slow in my limited experience. The oxalic acid that I use for cleaning
erector set girders works slowly too, but a lot faster than does citric
acid.

Pete Stanaitis
--------------


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Default Stainless rust removal redux

On Monday, October 27, 2014 10:26:57 AM UTC-7, Leon Fisk wrote:

A friend of mine kind of neglected his stainless revolver a bit too
long and it has developed little rust spots here and there. ...


A gunsmith friend thought bead-blasting it would be the best cure but
the citric acid treatment sounded interesting to me. Neither of us
care to try messing around with nitric acid. Mechanical means, buffing
and such would probably be quite noticeable


Glass-bead-blasting can be quite gentle; I've used it on corroded brass
and plastic, and brittle corrosion products got removed without
any harm to the rest. A piece of charred fiberglass, for instance,
turned into a clean piece of fiberglass with a depression with a
beard of intact glass fibers.

A Dremel tool, with the felt buffer, and some white rouge, would be
my second choice. Appearance may change, but it already has changed,
that's what the rust spots did to you.
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On Monday, October 27, 2014 7:34:36 PM UTC-4, Carl Ijames wrote:

had zero luck removing orange red Fe2O3 rust spots
or the blue to orange film from welding on 304SS.

.. If you make it work, please
post how.


Oxalic acid will, which is why I suggested BarKeepersFriend.
Wasn't sure it had abrasive, which is why I suggested testing in a
non-visible site. Under the handgrip would be good. Start by just dripping
some on and let it soak, you may not have to rub at all in which case the
abrasive won't matter.


I guess I never tried citric acid on rusty mild
steel, so can't say if that works or not but my strong expectation is not..

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames


I have not tried fluxes to protect stainless when welding, but have read about them. One is Solar Flux and another is Superior Flux 9. Not especially cheap, but there are some sellers on Ebay that sell small amounts. Ernie says using flux to protect stainless when welding is not as good as argon purge, but it is worth using.

Citric acid does work to remove rust from ordinary steel. I have used it on a bunch of files that got wet.

I have not tried oxalic acid on ordinary steel. I will do that.

Dan
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Default Stainless rust removal redux

On 28/10/14 22:11, wrote:
On Monday, October 27, 2014 7:34:36 PM UTC-4, Carl Ijames wrote:

had zero luck removing orange red Fe2O3 rust spots
or the blue to orange film from welding on 304SS.

. If you make it work, please
post how.
Oxalic acid will, which is why I suggested BarKeepersFriend.
Wasn't sure it had abrasive, which is why I suggested testing in a
non-visible site. Under the handgrip would be good. Start by just dripping
some on and let it soak, you may not have to rub at all in which case the
abrasive won't matter.
I guess I never tried citric acid on rusty mild
steel, so can't say if that works or not but my strong expectation is not.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

I have not tried fluxes to protect stainless when welding, but have read about them. One is Solar Flux and another is Superior Flux 9. Not especially cheap, but there are some sellers on Ebay that sell small amounts. Ernie says using flux to protect stainless when welding is not as good as argon purge, but it is worth using.

Citric acid does work to remove rust from ordinary steel. I have used it on a bunch of files that got wet.

I have not tried oxalic acid on ordinary steel. I will do that.

Dan

Various people have mentioned weak acids for this de-rusting and Ernie
has mentioned a number of times a Citric acid based weld discolouration
removal chemical AFAIK Citrisurf? but what hasn't been mentioned is that
it is used in conjunction with an electric power supply and wand to
assist the scale removal. A local fabricator near me in the UK uses a
similar system but it is phosphoric acid based and again uses electrical
assist. I know phosphoric acid is used for rust removal on steel but
don't know of its effects on stainless, I suppose it should work as it
is removing rust. I do have some phosphoric acid based alloy wheel
cleaning solution so intend to try that for removing the discolouration
of SS welds at some point.


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Default Stainless rust removal redux

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 16:03:35 -0500
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote:

snip
Its most common use is as a wood bleach.
If you check the deck cleaners for wooden decks it is pretty much Oxalic
acid.

Savogran sells 1lb tubs of granular for $6 at hardware stores.

Paul K. Dickman


Thanks for the sources. This gives us a few more possibilities...

And thanks to everyone else for their comments and input. I'll pass the
info along and save for my own personal use

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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Default Stainless rust removal redux

Regarding the poster who asked if I was using all stainless steel tooling while forging stainless steel:

You are right on! No, I wasn't, and I even knew better. It is very hard to make a "stainless steel forge shop" for just occasional use. That's one reason why I tend to avoid working with stainless steel forgings.

Pete Stanaitis
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Default Stainless rust removal redux

On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 6:12:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:


I have not tried oxalic acid on ordinary steel. I will do that.

Dan


I did not do a proper test, but Barkeeper Friend does not seem to remove rust from some rusty nails. I am now trying vinegar.

Dan

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Default Stainless rust removal redux

On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 11:29:02 -0700 (PDT)
whit3rd wrote:

On Monday, October 27, 2014 10:26:57 AM UTC-7, Leon Fisk wrote:

A friend of mine kind of neglected his stainless revolver a bit too
long and it has developed little rust spots here and there. ...

snip

Glass-bead-blasting can be quite gentle; I've used it on corroded brass
and plastic, and brittle corrosion products got removed without
any harm to the rest.

snip

Thanks for the info/reply and now some followup...

Talked to my friend and seeing he already had some Bar Keepers Friend
in the kitchen sink cupboard he gave it a try first.

Said it worked great, gun cleaned up really nice with it. He's planning
on selling it (he thinks he already has a buyer) so we won't know about
any long term problems it may have caused...

Many thanks to everyone who commented/helped with this

--
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Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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Default Stainless rust removal redux

On Thu, 6 Nov 2014 16:04:17 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 11:29:02 -0700 (PDT)
whit3rd wrote:

On Monday, October 27, 2014 10:26:57 AM UTC-7, Leon Fisk wrote:

A friend of mine kind of neglected his stainless revolver a bit too
long and it has developed little rust spots here and there. ...

snip

Glass-bead-blasting can be quite gentle; I've used it on corroded brass
and plastic, and brittle corrosion products got removed without
any harm to the rest.

snip

Thanks for the info/reply and now some followup...

Talked to my friend and seeing he already had some Bar Keepers Friend
in the kitchen sink cupboard he gave it a try first.

Said it worked great, gun cleaned up really nice with it. He's planning
on selling it (he thinks he already has a buyer) so we won't know about
any long term problems it may have caused...

Many thanks to everyone who commented/helped with this

\
Thanks for "the rest of the story."


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"


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On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 16:59:44 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Nov 2014 16:04:17 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 11:29:02 -0700 (PDT)
whit3rd wrote:

On Monday, October 27, 2014 10:26:57 AM UTC-7, Leon Fisk wrote:

A friend of mine kind of neglected his stainless revolver a bit too
long and it has developed little rust spots here and there. ...

snip

Glass-bead-blasting can be quite gentle; I've used it on corroded brass
and plastic, and brittle corrosion products got removed without
any harm to the rest.

snip

Thanks for the info/reply and now some followup...

Talked to my friend and seeing he already had some Bar Keepers Friend
in the kitchen sink cupboard he gave it a try first.

Said it worked great, gun cleaned up really nice with it. He's planning
on selling it (he thinks he already has a buyer) so we won't know about
any long term problems it may have caused...


Well, if he neutralized any acids/bases, then rubbed it with some MAAS
or other metal protector (or gun oil) he shouldn't have any problems.
It was probably the lack of gun oil which allowed the rust to appear
in the first place. Remind him to -maintain- his weapons, eh?
(oops, which reminds me...)


Many thanks to everyone who commented/helped with this

\
Thanks for "the rest of the story."


Ditto.

--
The more you know, the less you need.
-- Aboriginal Saying
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