Hey everyone,

I build sculpture out of 316L Stainless Steel and am having serious
RUST issues. It seem anywhere I grind using a hard disk to grind down
welds will ends up with a ton of surface rust where ever the sparks of
the grinding hit the sculpture. I'm having to RE-finish pieces to
remove the millions of specks of rust that develop.

What's going on here? Is there carbide precipitation happening in
each spark? (I can't get away from hard grinding some areas of my
work after final assembly and the finish polish is already on 90% of
sculpture.)

Is it the grinding wheel I'm using? (Do some disks have Ferrous
material in them or something??) I usually don't use grinding wheels
stamped "for stainless" because of their cost, but I always thought
that was a matter of HOW they remove material, not that they would
contaminate stainless steel.

Any suggestions????



James, Port Orchard

www.jameskelseystudios.com

"RainLover" wrote in message
...
Hey everyone,

I build sculpture out of 316L Stainless Steel and am having serious
RUST issues. It seem anywhere I grind using a hard disk to grind down
welds will ends up with a ton of surface rust where ever the sparks of
the grinding hit the sculpture. I'm having to RE-finish pieces to
remove the millions of specks of rust that develop.

What's going on here? Is there carbide precipitation happening in
each spark? (I can't get away from hard grinding some areas of my
work after final assembly and the finish polish is already on 90% of
sculpture.)

Those bits of steel that have been heated past incandesence to the
'sparking' stage by the grinder have lost their non-corrodable properties.
The bits are so hot when projected by the wheel that they weld to the
surface around. Each bit then rusts, and deposits that rust on the surface
around it.

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"RainLover" wrote in message
...

Hey everyone,

I build sculpture out of 316L Stainless Steel and am having serious
RUST issues. It seem anywhere I grind using a hard disk to grind down
welds will ends up with a ton of surface rust where ever the sparks of
the grinding hit the sculpture. I'm having to RE-finish pieces to
remove the millions of specks of rust that develop.

What's going on here? Is there carbide precipitation happening in
each spark? (I can't get away from hard grinding some areas of my
work after final assembly and the finish polish is already on 90% of
sculpture.)


Those bits of steel that have been heated past incandesence to the
'sparking' stage by the grinder have lost their non-corrodable properties.
The bits are so hot when projected by the wheel that they weld to the
surface around. Each bit then rusts, and deposits that rust on the surface
around it.

LLoyd


reeeeally big vat of nitric acid should do the trick.......

don't try this at home kids, or at least let me watch

I have been doing a lot of welding and grinding of 316L lately. After 316
has been heated for any reason it needs to be passivated to remove the free
iron. I give the parts a 10-20 minute dip in Citrisurf 2250 between the
grinding and polishing stage.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"RainLover" wrote in message
...
Hey everyone,

I build sculpture out of 316L Stainless Steel and am having serious
RUST issues. It seem anywhere I grind using a hard disk to grind down
welds will ends up with a ton of surface rust where ever the sparks of
the grinding hit the sculpture. I'm having to RE-finish pieces to
remove the millions of specks of rust that develop.

What's going on here? Is there carbide precipitation happening in
each spark? (I can't get away from hard grinding some areas of my
work after final assembly and the finish polish is already on 90% of
sculpture.)

Is it the grinding wheel I'm using? (Do some disks have Ferrous
material in them or something??) I usually don't use grinding wheels
stamped "for stainless" because of their cost, but I always thought
that was a matter of HOW they remove material, not that they would
contaminate stainless steel.

Any suggestions????



James, Port Orchard

www.jameskelseystudios.com

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:08:28 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

Citrisurf 2250




Would this work for electropolishing?

Randy Replogle

I was considering getting some Citrisurf when I remebered that the UK
food chain Sainbury's sold own brand appliance descaler that was citric
acid based with added surfactants, though it might be worth playing with
to see what it did. I had used the last I had so went into the shops and
they didn't have any, local branch is poor like that these days.
Unfortunately for me other branches seem to be out as well so I suspect
they have stopped doing it, damn. Must try Tesco, Asda, Waitrose,
Safeway or just buy some Citrisurf.

Randy Replogle wrote:

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:08:28 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

Citrisurf 2250





Would this work for electropolishing?

Randy Replogle

RainLover wrote:
I build sculpture out of 316L Stainless Steel and am having serious
RUST issues. It seem anywhere I grind using a hard disk to grind down
welds will ends up with a ton of surface rust where ever the sparks of
the grinding hit the sculpture. I'm having to RE-finish pieces to
remove the millions of specks of rust that develop.
....
Any suggestions????

Lloyd Sponenburgh's idea that sparked bits are welding to the
surface and then rusting sounds plausible. I suggest you drape
a welding canvas to keep grinding sparks from hitting the rest
of the work. If you don't have a welding area shield, perhaps
try cardboard or aluminum flashing. I've occasionally used
aluminum foil to shield an area from grinding sparks; it works
ok, but gets little holes after a while.

The ground-down areas themselves probably need Citrisurf
passivation treatment like Glenn Ashmore mentions.

-jiw

Citrisurf 2250

Would this work for electropolishing?


Kinda, sorta but not really. It is really a passivating bath. The main
thing it does is prevent rust. OTOH it is nowhere near as nasty as the real
stuff. I help my bath along with a 5V 40A power supply just so the
Citrisurf will eat off any smears that happen during grinding before I waste
a lot of time with the cutting compound. I have tried it as an
"electropolishing" bath after the final color pass but while it does whiten
the finish it gives a slight mat texture. However, a quick once over with
the color compound on a loose muslin wheel brings it out as well as the
stuff I send out to be professionally electropolished. Definitely better
than a color buff alone.

Just keep in mind that electropolishing is not a panacea for all a part's
faults. It will not remove scratches much coarser than about 600 grit. The
better you can get the finish before electropolishing the better the final
product.

Where is Ernie Leimkuhler? He is the stainless expert.
--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Randy Replogle" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:08:28 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

Randy Replogle

"RainLover" wrote in message
...
Hey everyone,

I build sculpture out of 316L Stainless Steel and am having serious
RUST issues. It seem anywhere I grind using a hard disk to grind down
welds will ends up with a ton of surface rust where ever the sparks of
the grinding hit the sculpture. I'm having to RE-finish pieces to
remove the millions of specks of rust that develop.

What's going on here? Is there carbide precipitation happening in
each spark? (I can't get away from hard grinding some areas of my
work after final assembly and the finish polish is already on 90% of
sculpture.)

Is it the grinding wheel I'm using? (Do some disks have Ferrous
material in them or something??) I usually don't use grinding wheels
stamped "for stainless" because of their cost, but I always thought
that was a matter of HOW they remove material, not that they would
contaminate stainless steel.

Any suggestions????


Try a can of anti spatter spray (welding) - we used that in repairs of SS
road
tankers for year and it always worked.

RainLover wrote:

Hey everyone,

I build sculpture out of 316L Stainless Steel and am having serious
RUST issues. It seem anywhere I grind using a hard disk to grind down
welds will ends up with a ton of surface rust where ever the sparks of
the grinding hit the sculpture. I'm having to RE-finish pieces to
remove the millions of specks of rust that develop.

What's going on here? Is there carbide precipitation happening in
each spark? (I can't get away from hard grinding some areas of my
work after final assembly and the finish polish is already on 90% of
sculpture.)

Is it the grinding wheel I'm using? (Do some disks have Ferrous
material in them or something??) I usually don't use grinding wheels
stamped "for stainless" because of their cost, but I always thought
that was a matter of HOW they remove material, not that they would
contaminate stainless steel.

Any suggestions????

James, Port Orchard

www.jameskelseystudios.com

Just one. Google the phrase "passivating stainless steel" This is well
known and common.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 21:00:54 GMT, "Roger" wrote:

Is it the grinding wheel I'm using? (Do some disks have Ferrous
material in them or something??) I usually don't use grinding wheels
stamped "for stainless" because of their cost, but I always thought
that was a matter of HOW they remove material, not that they would
contaminate stainless steel.

Any suggestions????


Try a can of anti spatter spray (welding) - we used that in repairs of SS
road
tankers for year and it always worked.

An engineer that used to work at Pratt & Whitney told me they used
Milk of Magnesia in order to protect metal from welding splatter. He
said that they specifically had to use the Philips brand, if someone
bought generic, the entire project would have to be scrapped and done
over.

Sounds a bit messy to clean up, though.

---

http://www.FenrirOnline.com

Computer services, custom metal etching,
arts, crafts, and much more.

An engineer that used to work at Pratt & Whitney told me they used
Milk of Magnesia in order to protect metal from welding splatter. He
said that they specifically had to use the Philips brand, if someone
bought generic, the entire project would have to be scrapped and done
over.

Sounds a bit messy to clean up, though.


But if you had a dose of Delhi belly after a nasty curry
the night before, ther'd be no excuse for not turning up
to work.

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:08:28 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

I have been doing a lot of welding and grinding of 316L lately. After 316
has been heated for any reason it needs to be passivated to remove the free
iron. I give the parts a 10-20 minute dip in Citrisurf 2250 between the
grinding and polishing stage.

Thanks for all the responses everyone. Here's my problem... due to
the construction technique I need to use, SOME parts of the sculpture
are completely FINISHED before I can do final assembly.

That's because once assembed, it would be impossible to put my final
grind treatment on many locations.


WHAT ABOUT THIS:

Is there any sort of oil or coating I can apply that will keep the
grinding sparks from sticking and yet wash off or presure wash off?
(or peel off)???


Thanks,

James

www.jameskelseystudios.com

RainLover wrote:

Is there any sort of oil or coating I can apply that will keep the
grinding sparks from sticking and yet wash off or presure wash off?
(or peel off)???


Thanks,

James

www.jameskelseystudios.com

If it is grinding sparks, try some PAM or equivalent from your grocery
store. Why bother to wash it off. It is clear and won't hurt the
stainless.

Dan

wrote in message
oups.com...

RainLover wrote:

Is there any sort of oil or coating I can apply that will keep the
grinding sparks from sticking and yet wash off or presure wash off?
(or peel off)???

Y'know... If the final finish were that important to me, and a little extra
cost and time weren't critical issues, I think I'd slather on a nice thick
coat of paint - even a tough enamel -, do the work, then use a chemical
stripper to remove the protective coating.

LLoyd

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:04:53 GMT, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

Y'know... If the final finish were that important to me, and a little extra
cost and time weren't critical issues, I think I'd slather on a nice thick
coat of paint - even a tough enamel -, do the work, then use a chemical
stripper to remove the protective coating.

How about an aqueous gel? In firefighting we've got a substance
known as AFG (Aqueous Firefighting Gel...sometimes the names are so
descriptive) that puts a coating of, well, goo, onto a surface. Sticks
well, rinses off with water, and isn't prohibitively expensive.

Here's a link of something he could try for proably low cost:
http://www.scottyfire.com/AFG/AFG3.html
Works at 3GPM on a garden hose.

No clue on the price and I've never dealt with those guys, but it'd be
an interesting experiment and worth talking to the vendor.

Hope this helps?
Dave Hinz

How about an aqueous gel? In firefighting we've got a substance
known as AFG (Aqueous Firefighting Gel...sometimes the names are so
descriptive) that puts a coating of, well, goo, onto a surface. Sticks
well, rinses off with water, and isn't prohibitively expensive.

Just curious, but what do you use it for in firefighting?
It seems like it would work to protect surfaces.

I wonder if you could adhere some plastic or paper film to the surface,
like the stuff that comes on sheets of acrylic or polycarbonate plastic.

On 30 Mar 2006 12:49:29 -0800, woodworker88 wrote:
How about an aqueous gel? In firefighting we've got a substance
known as AFG (Aqueous Firefighting Gel...sometimes the names are so
descriptive) that puts a coating of, well, goo, onto a surface. Sticks
well, rinses off with water, and isn't prohibitively expensive.

Just curious, but what do you use it for in firefighting?
It seems like it would work to protect surfaces.

It's very much like using a foam; it provides a coating, an airtight
film. The fact that it has so much water in it helps it to have more
thermal mass than just foam bubbles, and the slime stays there longer
than the foam which tends to burn off. On barn fires, for instance, you
can slime a side and as long as you don't let it evaporate off, that
exposure is protected. It's messy but effective, and a couple rains (or
a hose) takes it off.

I wonder if you could adhere some plastic or paper film to the surface,
like the stuff that comes on sheets of acrylic or polycarbonate plastic.

Well, the sparks are hot. Any plastic or fabric coating would either
burn or melt, making the problem worse I would think. You want
something that has protection and a way to cool the spark; I think the
slime is worth investigating.

Same stuff is in absorbant disposable diapers, I think. This is just
far more diluted.

RainLover wrote:

WHAT ABOUT THIS:

Is there any sort of oil or coating I can apply that will keep the
grinding sparks from sticking and yet wash off or presure wash off?
(or peel off)???

Thanks,

James

www.jameskelseystudios.com

Check with a supplier to commercial bodywork and automotive paint
shops. There is a product that can be sprayed on the walls of spray
booths to keep the paint overspray from building up. Liquid Mask IIRC.
Water soluble, should come off with a soak with a garden hose. Dunno
what a 5 gallon bucket is worth, but I have sprayed a bunch of it onto
walls. Should work for something like this.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

"RainLover" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:08:28 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

I have been doing a lot of welding and grinding of 316L lately. After
316
has been heated for any reason it needs to be passivated to remove the
free
iron. I give the parts a 10-20 minute dip in Citrisurf 2250 between the
grinding and polishing stage.

Thanks for all the responses everyone. Here's my problem... due to
the construction technique I need to use, SOME parts of the sculpture
are completely FINISHED before I can do final assembly.

That's because once assembed, it would be impossible to put my final
grind treatment on many locations.


WHAT ABOUT THIS:

Is there any sort of oil or coating I can apply that will keep the
grinding sparks from sticking and yet wash off or presure wash off?
(or peel off)???


Thanks,

James

www.jameskelseystudios.com




Mig welding spatter guard / rich detergent solution?
or even wallpaper glue?