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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Machine Gun Parts kits
I have read that, according to some, if you have machine gun parts you can
go to prison for trying to build a machine gun. If that's so, how to they sell machine gun parts kits? I'm in process of building an AR-15 and am curious, from what I see, the M16 lower receiver is different than an AR-15 lower receiver. M16 full-auto parts installed in an AR-15 won't make a machine gun because there is no hole for the auto-sear and the area is milled different, no room for the auto sear. So, in an AR-15 receiver, all the full auto parts that you could fit would let it work normally in safe and semi, but Auto would only let the hammer follow the bolt forward and you would have to pull the "Charging handle" to re-cock the hammer. It seems everything except the auto-sear would work in an AR-15 for safe and semi, selecting full auto would only let the hammer down without firing. To me, it seems that jailing someone for having some machine gun part, that work fine in an AR-15's, is kind of like throwing a man in jail for rape because he has a penis. Or giving everyone a speeding ticket because their car is capable of speeding. Crazy! RogerN |
#2
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Machine Gun Parts kits
On Sat, 16 Mar 2013 23:13:02 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote: I have read that, according to some, if you have machine gun parts you can go to prison for trying to build a machine gun. If that's so, how to they sell machine gun parts kits? I'm in process of building an AR-15 and am curious, from what I see, the M16 lower receiver is different than an AR-15 lower receiver. M16 full-auto parts installed in an AR-15 won't make a machine gun because there is no hole for the auto-sear and the area is milled different, no room for the auto sear. So, in an AR-15 receiver, all the full auto parts that you could fit would let it work normally in safe and semi, but Auto would only let the hammer follow the bolt forward and you would have to pull the "Charging handle" to re-cock the hammer. It seems everything except the auto-sear would work in an AR-15 for safe and semi, selecting full auto would only let the hammer down without firing. To me, it seems that jailing someone for having some machine gun part, that work fine in an AR-15's, is kind of like throwing a man in jail for rape because he has a penis. Or giving everyone a speeding ticket because their car is capable of speeding. Crazy! RogerN Welcome to the world of Leftwing Firearms Assault. Gunner The methodology of the left has always been: 1. Lie 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie |
#3
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Machine Gun Parts kits
RogerN wrote:
I have read that, according to some, if you have machine gun parts you can go to prison for trying to build a machine gun. If that's so, how to they sell machine gun parts kits? I'm in process of building an AR-15 and am curious, from what I see, the M16 lower receiver is different than an AR-15 lower receiver. M16 full-auto parts installed in an AR-15 won't make a machine gun because there is no hole for the auto-sear and the area is milled different, no room for the auto sear. So, in an AR-15 receiver, all the full auto parts that you could fit would let it work normally in safe and semi, but Auto would only let the hammer follow the bolt forward and you would have to pull the "Charging handle" to re-cock the hammer. It seems everything except the auto-sear would work in an AR-15 for safe and semi, selecting full auto would only let the hammer down without firing. To me, it seems that jailing someone for having some machine gun part, that work fine in an AR-15's, is kind of like throwing a man in jail for rape because he has a penis. Or giving everyone a speeding ticket because their car is capable of speeding. Crazy! RogerN Welcome to the common sense side of the gun debate. Be prepared for all the anti-gun folks to start screaming at you. -- Steve W. |
#4
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Machine Gun Parts kits
Imprison all women, because they are equipped to be prostitutes?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/reinwald.asp Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "RogerN" wrote in message m... I have read that, according to some, if you have machine gun parts you can go to prison for trying to build a machine gun. If that's so, how to they sell machine gun parts kits? I'm in process of building an AR-15 and am curious, from what I see, the M16 lower receiver is different than an AR-15 lower receiver. M16 full-auto parts installed in an AR-15 won't make a machine gun because there is no hole for the auto-sear and the area is milled different, no room for the auto sear. So, in an AR-15 receiver, all the full auto parts that you could fit would let it work normally in safe and semi, but Auto would only let the hammer follow the bolt forward and you would have to pull the "Charging handle" to re-cock the hammer. It seems everything except the auto-sear would work in an AR-15 for safe and semi, selecting full auto would only let the hammer down without firing. To me, it seems that jailing someone for having some machine gun part, that work fine in an AR-15's, is kind of like throwing a man in jail for rape because he has a penis. Or giving everyone a speeding ticket because their car is capable of speeding. Crazy! RogerN |
#5
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Machine Gun Parts kits
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
... On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 04:44:06 -0500, "RogerN" wrote: snip According to liberal logic is a farmer has fertilizer and diesel fuel they are intending to make a bomb. That's just as stupid as claiming that machine gun/semi-auto parts used in a semi-auto is attempting to make a machine gun. As long as you aren't trying to modify the semi-auto into full auto, you aren't attempting to make a machine gun. As long as you aren't mixing your ammonium nitrate with the fuel and making a detonator, you aren't making a bomb. RogerN Hey, roger, why would you have M-16 parts in the first place? Are you planning to make a sculpture out of them? -- Ed Huntress Because, thanks to demo-c-rats, some AR-15 parts are out of stock, if available relatively high $$, some are sold out/back ordered throughout 2013, but original Colt Vietnam era M-16 parts kits are available. All the parts except the auto sear can be used in an AR-15 receiver to make a semi-automatic only rifle. http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c...aspx?a=1143546 The reasoning for the M16 bolt carrier being legal is because it's also used in some semi-auto AR-15's, so why can't the other semi-auto parts be legally used in a semi-auto rifle? RogerN |
#6
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Machine Gun Parts kits
"RogerN" wrote in message m... I have read that, according to some, if you have machine gun parts you can go to prison for trying to build a machine gun. If that's so, how to they sell machine gun parts kits? I'm in process of building an AR-15 and am curious, from what I see, the M16 lower receiver is different than an AR-15 lower receiver. M16 full-auto parts installed in an AR-15 won't make a machine gun because there is no hole for the auto-sear and the area is milled different, no room for the auto sear. So, in an AR-15 receiver, all the full auto parts that you could fit would let it work normally in safe and semi, but Auto would only let the hammer follow the bolt forward and you would have to pull the "Charging handle" to re-cock the hammer. It seems everything except the auto-sear would work in an AR-15 for safe and semi, selecting full auto would only let the hammer down without firing. To me, it seems that jailing someone for having some machine gun part, that work fine in an AR-15's, is kind of like throwing a man in jail for rape because he has a penis. Or giving everyone a speeding ticket because their car is capable of speeding. Crazy! RogerN To clarify, it is not any M-16 parts, it is 5 specific parts, mostly the trigger group and the bolt carrier. When installed in an AR receiver it can be easily converted to full auto with a drop in auto sear. At that point it comes under the NFA definition. Luckily, you are able to adapt the M-16 parts to legal. http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/AR15-M16Parts/ Personally, I would pitch out and replace the selector lever and bolt carrier as they would be a pain in the ass to adapt. The rest would involve grinding the hook off the hammer, welding up the end of the groove in the trigger and cutting off the projection on the end of the disconnector. However, Roger, if I were you, I would spend less time trying to scam the NFA and more time trying to figure out how to get your tools out of your mother's garage. Paul K. Dickman |
#7
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Machine Gun Parts kits
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message ...
snip To me, it seems that jailing someone for having some machine gun part, that work fine in an AR-15's, is kind of like throwing a man in jail for rape because he has a penis. Or giving everyone a speeding ticket because their car is capable of speeding. Crazy! RogerN To clarify, it is not any M-16 parts, it is 5 specific parts, mostly the trigger group and the bolt carrier. When installed in an AR receiver it can be easily converted to full auto with a drop in auto sear. At that point it comes under the NFA definition. Luckily, you are able to adapt the M-16 parts to legal. http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/AR15-M16Parts/ Personally, I would pitch out and replace the selector lever and bolt carrier as they would be a pain in the ass to adapt. The rest would involve grinding the hook off the hammer, welding up the end of the groove in the trigger and cutting off the projection on the end of the disconnector. I have an AR-15 lower parts kit, that's the parts I plan to use in the lower receiver. The M-16 bolt carrier is supposed to be legal to use in an AR-15. AR-15 bolt carriers are the most difficult to find part now AFAIK. However, Roger, if I were you, I would spend less time trying to scam the NFA and more time trying to figure out how to get your tools out of your mother's garage. Paul K. Dickman My machine tools are in my garage at my other house where my mother lives. Scam the NFA? The M-16 bolt carriers are legal, some AR-15's came with them, other parts are questionable. The auto-sear is the only part I know of that has no use in the semi-auto rifle and it doesn't fit an AR-15 receiver according to M-15 versus AR-15 blueprints. I'm pretty sure it would be easier to make a full auto modification to an AR-15 than it would be to convert it to an M-16. For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDWVYYJN_2Q RogerN |
#8
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Machine Gun Parts kits
RogerN wrote: I have read that, according to some, if you have machine gun parts you can go to prison for trying to build a machine gun. If that's so, how to they sell machine gun parts kits? "Constructive intent" or some such. If you have all the parts to assemble into what would be an NFA firearm and don't have the tax stamp to go with it you are presumed to have the intent to assemble them into an illegal firearm. If you say have a set of full auto internals for an M16 and do not have a firearm to install them into (no AR type receivers) you are legal since you don't have the complete set of parts to produce what would be an illegal firearm. Full auto however is pretty pointless for an individual weapon and just wastes valuable ammunition. FA is for "crew served" weapons with a military supply line backing them for an ammo supply. |
#9
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Machine Gun Parts kits
"Pete C." wrote in message ...
RogerN wrote: I have read that, according to some, if you have machine gun parts you can go to prison for trying to build a machine gun. If that's so, how to they sell machine gun parts kits? "Constructive intent" or some such. If you have all the parts to assemble into what would be an NFA firearm and don't have the tax stamp to go with it you are presumed to have the intent to assemble them into an illegal firearm. If you say have a set of full auto internals for an M16 and do not have a firearm to install them into (no AR type receivers) you are legal since you don't have the complete set of parts to produce what would be an illegal firearm. http://www.outdoorsunlimited.net/~ch...s/zm300-15.JPG The auto sear, on the left in this picture of an M-16 receiver, won't fit an AR receiver because the AR receiver is left thick above the selector detent. Also, the AR receiver doesn't have the pin hole for the auto sear. A person couldn't assemble the M-16 auto parts in an AR receiver to make a machine gun unless they milled above the select fire detent and drilled the pin hole. A person could use them to make a machine gun if they had a M-16 receiver but the AR receiver would require modification. Full auto however is pretty pointless for an individual weapon and just wastes valuable ammunition. FA is for "crew served" weapons with a military supply line backing them for an ammo supply. Exactly, that's why, other than it's illegal, I don't want to build a machine gun. I'd build one if it was legal but it would be too expensive to shoot very much in auto. Currently I have an M16 parts kit but I have no AR-15 lowers completed yet. I have a lower parts kit for an AR-15 to use in my lower that I have to machine, I just have to find out if possessing a complete AR-15 lower, with no full auto parts, makes it illegal to have the machine gun parts kit. I bought an M-16 parts kit with the intent to build a legal AR-15. I just don't want be accused of intention to build a machine gun just because I have the parts that came in the parts kit. I don't and won't have a receiver that the parts will fit in. Even if this country came down to a civil war or revolution, the sound of machine gun fire would make a target out of the person with the machine gun. They need to make game calls with the sound of machine gun fire to draw the attention away from the gun owners! RogerN |
#10
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Machine Gun Parts kits
On 3/17/2013 12:46 PM, RogerN wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 04:44:06 -0500, "RogerN" wrote: snip According to liberal logic is a farmer has fertilizer and diesel fuel they are intending to make a bomb. That's just as stupid as claiming that machine gun/semi-auto parts used in a semi-auto is attempting to make a machine gun. As long as you aren't trying to modify the semi-auto into full auto, you aren't attempting to make a machine gun. As long as you aren't mixing your ammonium nitrate with the fuel and making a detonator, you aren't making a bomb. RogerN Hey, roger, why would you have M-16 parts in the first place? Are you planning to make a sculpture out of them? -- Ed Huntress Because, thanks to demo-c-rats, some AR-15 parts are out of stock, The Democrats did it!!! Finally I know who is buying guns like crazy people! I thought it was the conservative nut jobs who were buying all the guns and hiding their 25th assault rifle in a PVC tube in the backyard. |
#11
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Machine Gun Parts kits
Forget guns.
I'm more interested in anti-drone drones. |
#12
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Machine Gun Parts kits
"Richard" wrote in message
m... Forget guns. I'm more interested in anti-drone drones. Go for it http://diydrones.com/ Probably be easier to hit ground targets though. |
#13
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Machine Gun Parts kits
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
... snip More fantasy. The more guns in any developed society, the more murders. Take a look at Switzerland's numbers. They're the worst in Europe, and they have the most guns. Of course, they can't hold a candle to us. They only have a fraction of the number of guns we have, too. We're the modern-times champs. -- Ed Huntress RogerN Romans chapter 1 is about when God abandons the people that abandon him. That book's about as outdated as tomorrows newspaper. Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. |
#14
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Machine Gun Parts kits
On 3/18/2013 8:57 PM, RogerN wrote:
"Richard" wrote in message m... Forget guns. I'm more interested in anti-drone drones. Go for it http://diydrones.com/ Probably be easier to hit ground targets though. PIC processors don't have the hoss power. Parallax Propeller makes a better brain. http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/...ased-quadrotor We've come a long way, baby. When I was trying to get on with the Outrider group we were using an off the shelf A10 autopilot. Big as a breadbox and a lot heavier. Sucked lots of trons too. Now the whole thing fits in an Altoids box. |
#15
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Machine Gun Parts kits
On 3/18/2013 9:14 PM, Richard wrote:
On 3/18/2013 8:57 PM, RogerN wrote: "Richard" wrote in message m... Forget guns. I'm more interested in anti-drone drones. Go for it http://diydrones.com/ Probably be easier to hit ground targets though. PIC processors don't have the hoss power. Parallax Propeller makes a better brain. http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/...ased-quadrotor We've come a long way, baby. When I was trying to get on with the Outrider group we were using an off the shelf A10 autopilot. Big as a breadbox and a lot heavier. Sucked lots of trons too. Now the whole thing fits in an Altoids box. Sorry. I meant to include the store link. Off the shelf pieces and parts. https://store.diydrones.com/ |
#16
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Machine Gun Parts kits
Weapons are an important factor in war, but not the decisive one;
it is man and not materials that counts. - Mao Tse-tung 1938 |
#17
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Machine Gun Parts kits
On Mar 17, 6:09*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
"Pete C." *wrote in . ... RogerN wrote: I have read that, according to some, if you have machine gun parts you can go to prison for trying to build a machine gun. *If that's so, how to they sell machine gun parts kits? "Constructive intent" or some such. If you have all the parts to assemble into what would be an NFA firearm and don't have the tax stamp to go with it you are presumed to have the intent to assemble them into an illegal firearm. If you say have a set of full auto internals for an M16 and do not have a firearm to install them into (no AR type receivers) you are legal since you don't have the complete set of parts to produce what would be an illegal firearm. http://www.outdoorsunlimited.net/~ch...s/zm300-15.JPG The auto sear, on the left in this picture of an M-16 receiver, won't fit an AR receiver because the AR receiver is left thick above the selector detent. |
#18
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Machine Gun Parts kits
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 20:00:35 -0500, Richard
wrote: Forget guns. I'm more interested in anti-drone drones. http://www.fpvpilot.com/Pages/default.aspx http://www.fpvpilot.com/Pages/FPVReadytoFly.aspx Some outstanding videos from FPV RC aircraft http://vimeo.com/channels/firstpersonview http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread....oft-machinegun The methodology of the left has always been: 1. Lie 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie |
#19
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Machine Gun Parts kits
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 21:13:41 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote: "Ed Huntress" wrote in message .. . snip More fantasy. The more guns in any developed society, the more murders. Take a look at Switzerland's numbers. They're the worst in Europe, and they have the most guns. Of course, they can't hold a candle to us. They only have a fraction of the number of guns we have, too. We're the modern-times champs. -- Ed Huntress RogerN Romans chapter 1 is about when God abandons the people that abandon him. That book's about as outdated as tomorrows newspaper. Don't blame God, Roger. We did this to ourselves, and we're going to have to undo it by ourselves. -- Ed Huntress Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. |
#20
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Machine Gun Parts kits
On 3/19/2013 1:50 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
Don't blame God, Roger. We did this to ourselves, and we're going to have to undo it by ourselves. Or not.... |
#21
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Machine Gun Parts kits
"Stanley Schaefer" wrote But if the ATF wants your
ass, you're cooked with just about any AR type rifle. As mentioned, all they have to do is get it to fire 2 shots with one trigger pull. It doesn't have to work after that. Stan In that case the SKS I had (sold long ago) would have landed me in jail . With some brass cased handloads it would double on occasion ... scared hell out of me and made everybody at the range look at me funny . -- Snag |
#22
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Machine Gun Parts kits
On Mar 19, 2:33*am, Ed Huntress wrote:
So what? Assault rifles are despised by more than half of the US population and they want to ban them (data on request) because they're the vile weapons used in mass murders by lunatics. Ed Huntress Just because more than half of the U.S. population despises assault rifles and wants to ban them is not a valid argument for banning assault rifles. Assault rifles are the sort of rifles that armies use. The sort of gun that a well regulated militia should have. So banning them goes against the Constitution. And the rifles are just rifles. There is nothing vile about them. What is vile is the movies and video games that show people killing each other. Dan |
#23
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"RogerN" wrote in message m... Romans chapter 1 is Toilet paper, same as any other chapter. |
#24
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Machine Gun Parts kits
On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 08:53:11 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Mar 19, 2:33*am, Ed Huntress wrote: So what? Assault rifles are despised by more than half of the US population and they want to ban them (data on request) because they're the vile weapons used in mass murders by lunatics. Ed Huntress Just because more than half of the U.S. population despises assault rifles and wants to ban them is not a valid argument for banning assault rifles. It's a valid argument to be aware that you're on the losing side of a political debate, in which more than half of the voters are against you. Assault rifles are the sort of rifles that armies use. Well, with the addition of select-fire, yes. But they're close enough to attract Rambo wannabees, Walter Mitty Minutemen, and mass-murdering lunatics. They're the best tools for those jobs, if you include Bushmaster's argument that they'll "Renew your Man Card." They're the guns that fulfill the desires of a wide variety of sociopaths. The sort of gun that a well regulated militia should have. So banning them goes against the Constitution. You could try that argument, but based on court precedent, I think you would lose. It would be an even better argument for M-16s, but as the Court said in Heller: "It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service—M-16 rifles and the like—may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment ’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right." So the principle has already been foreclosed. Then you're left with the question of whether AR-15s are in "common use" for lawful purposes (another provision of Heller), and you then have the fact that miltiary-style semiautos defined as "assault rifles" by state statutes make up only about 1.3% of the guns in circulation. And I doubt if the Court would overturn state laws that defined high-capacity ARs as "dangerous weapons" or "destructive devices," as some do now. As long as you have handguns for home defense, the Court hasn't put any other limits on federal or state laws -- so far. We'll have to see if a challenge ever gets to the Court. After more than 20 years for some states, there hasn't been a successful challenge yet. And the rifles are just rifles. There is nothing vile about them. That's a matter of opinion. I think they're pretty vile, because they're designed to appeal to some pretty ugly instincts. But your opinion is your own business. What is vile is the movies and video games that show people killing each other. I don't watch them, myself. -- Ed Huntress |
#25
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Machine Gun Parts kits
Richard wrote: Forget guns. I'm more interested in anti-drone drones. No anti-aircraft guns? -- Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is enough left over to pay them. |
#26
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" wrote: On Mar 19, 2:33 am, Ed Huntress wrote: So what? Assault rifles are despised by more than half of the US population and they want to ban them (data on request) because they're the vile weapons used in mass murders by lunatics. Ed Huntress Just because more than half of the U.S. population despises assault rifles and wants to ban them is not a valid argument for banning assault rifles. Assault rifles are the sort of rifles that armies use. The sort of gun that a well regulated militia should have. So banning them goes against the Constitution. And the rifles are just rifles. There is nothing vile about them. What is vile is the movies and video games that show people killing each other. We need to ban liberal editors who play too many word games. AKA: Kill filed. -- Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is enough left over to pay them. |
#27
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Machine Gun Parts kits
On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 13:36:08 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: " wrote: On Mar 19, 2:33 am, Ed Huntress wrote: So what? Assault rifles are despised by more than half of the US population and they want to ban them (data on request) because they're the vile weapons used in mass murders by lunatics. Ed Huntress Just because more than half of the U.S. population despises assault rifles and wants to ban them is not a valid argument for banning assault rifles. Assault rifles are the sort of rifles that armies use. The sort of gun that a well regulated militia should have. So banning them goes against the Constitution. And the rifles are just rifles. There is nothing vile about them. What is vile is the movies and video games that show people killing each other. We need to ban liberal editors who play too many word games. AKA: Kill filed. Ah, but that just leaves you dumber than you already are, Terrell. You probably don't even know that the Supreme Court precluded the "sort of rifles that armies use" in the Heller case. Killfiling keeps you stupid. Look at Gunner, fer chrissake. It's taken months to catch him up on all he missed. d8-) -- Ed Huntress |
#28
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Machine Gun Parts kits
On Mar 19, 12:30*pm, Ed Huntress wrote:
It's a valid argument to be aware that you're on the losing side of a political debate, in which more than half of the voters are against you. Get real. It is not a valid argument. It is only a statement of what peoples opinions are. A valid argument would be why assault rifles should be banned. Assault rifles are the sort of rifles *that armies use. Well, with the addition of select-fire, yes. But they're close enough to attract Rambo wannabees, Walter Mitty Minutemen, and mass-murdering lunatics. They're the best tools for those jobs, if you include Bushmaster's argument that they'll "Renew your Man Card." They're the guns that fulfill the desires of a wide variety of sociopaths. *The sort of gun that a well regulated militia should have. *So banning them goes against the Constitution. You could try that argument, but based on court precedent, I think you would lose. It would be an even better argument for M-16s, but as the Court said in Heller: "It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service—M-16 rifles and the like—may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment ’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right." So the principle has already been foreclosed. Then you're left with the question of whether AR-15s are in "common use" for lawful purposes (another provision of Heller), and you then have the fact that miltiary-style semiautos defined as "assault rifles" by state statutes make up only about 1.3% of the guns in circulation. And I doubt if the Court would overturn state laws that defined high-capacity ARs as "dangerous weapons" or "destructive devices," as some do now. As long as you have handguns for home defense, the Court hasn't put any other limits on federal or state laws -- so far. We'll have to see if a challenge ever gets to the Court. After more than 20 years for some states, there hasn't been a successful challenge yet. Hand guns are what you carry when you do not expect to need a gun. *And the rifles are just rifles. *There is nothing vile about them. That's a matter of opinion. I think they're pretty vile, because they're designed to appeal to some pretty ugly instincts. But your opinion is your own business. Do you really think they are designed to appeal to ugly instincts? That is really funny. They are designed to be or resemble military rifles. What is vile is the movies and video games that show people killing each other. I don't watch them, myself. And I do not have an assault rifle, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? But the facts are that lots of people do watch them. Dan -- Ed Huntress |
#29
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#30
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On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 13:38:51 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Mar 19, 12:30*pm, Ed Huntress wrote: It's a valid argument to be aware that you're on the losing side of a political debate, in which more than half of the voters are against you. Get real. It is not a valid argument. It is only a statement of what peoples opinions are. A valid argument would be why assault rifles should be banned. That's not the argument I'm talking about. The meaningful argument is about whether you have the votes. In terms of popular votes, you don't. In terms of intimidation of enough Republican members of the House to block passage, you very well may. Whether you want to ban assault rifles is pretty much based on your ideology. I'm not going to argue with you about that. The politics of it is going to be interesting. Right now, it looks like Congress has decided that they'll take the safe course and not rile the NRA. They have primaries to worry about. -- Ed Huntress Assault rifles are the sort of rifles *that armies use. Well, with the addition of select-fire, yes. But they're close enough to attract Rambo wannabees, Walter Mitty Minutemen, and mass-murdering lunatics. They're the best tools for those jobs, if you include Bushmaster's argument that they'll "Renew your Man Card." They're the guns that fulfill the desires of a wide variety of sociopaths. *The sort of gun that a well regulated militia should have. *So banning them goes against the Constitution. You could try that argument, but based on court precedent, I think you would lose. It would be an even better argument for M-16s, but as the Court said in Heller: "It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service—M-16 rifles and the like—may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment ’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right." So the principle has already been foreclosed. Then you're left with the question of whether AR-15s are in "common use" for lawful purposes (another provision of Heller), and you then have the fact that miltiary-style semiautos defined as "assault rifles" by state statutes make up only about 1.3% of the guns in circulation. And I doubt if the Court would overturn state laws that defined high-capacity ARs as "dangerous weapons" or "destructive devices," as some do now. As long as you have handguns for home defense, the Court hasn't put any other limits on federal or state laws -- so far. We'll have to see if a challenge ever gets to the Court. After more than 20 years for some states, there hasn't been a successful challenge yet. Hand guns are what you carry when you do not expect to need a gun. *And the rifles are just rifles. *There is nothing vile about them. That's a matter of opinion. I think they're pretty vile, because they're designed to appeal to some pretty ugly instincts. But your opinion is your own business. Do you really think they are designed to appeal to ugly instincts? That is really funny. They are designed to be or resemble military rifles. What is vile is the movies and video games that show people killing each other. I don't watch them, myself. And I do not have an assault rifle, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? But the facts are that lots of people do watch them. Dan -- Ed Huntress |
#31
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On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 16:01:38 -0500, Richard
wrote: 30 love, Ed. Who cares about what the majority wants, anyway? At the national level, the Republicans seem to be giving up on the idea. They're going to try something else. Stand back... -- Ed Huntress On 3/19/2013 3:38 PM, wrote: Get real. It is not a valid argument. It is only a statement of what peoples opinions are. A valid argument would be why assault rifles should be banned. Hand guns are what you carry when you do not expect to need a gun. And I do not have an assault rifle, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? But the facts are that lots of people do watch them. Dan -- Probably more people watch shoot-em-ups DON'T have a rifle. Not that that means anything... |
#32
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On Mar 19, 8:49*pm, Ed Huntress wrote:
That's not the argument I'm talking about. The meaningful argument is about whether you have the votes. What argument? You either have the votes or don't have the votes. There is no argument. Dan Ed Huntress |
#33
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And to back up the half and half - Most women would love not to
have a man in their life. They haven't been able to wipe us out to their desire or lack thereof. Martin On 3/19/2013 10:53 AM, wrote: On Mar 19, 2:33 am, Ed Huntress wrote: So what? Assault rifles are despised by more than half of the US population and they want to ban them (data on request) because they're the vile weapons used in mass murders by lunatics. Ed Huntress Just because more than half of the U.S. population despises assault rifles and wants to ban them is not a valid argument for banning assault rifles. Assault rifles are the sort of rifles that armies use. The sort of gun that a well regulated militia should have. So banning them goes against the Constitution. And the rifles are just rifles. There is nothing vile about them. What is vile is the movies and video games that show people killing each other. Dan |
#34
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On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:16:52 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Mar 19, 8:49*pm, Ed Huntress wrote: That's not the argument I'm talking about. The meaningful argument is about whether you have the votes. What argument? You either have the votes or don't have the votes. There is no argument. There is until the vote is taken. d8-) What do you think you're going to settle about ARs, anyway? Some people think they're just more of the same ol'. Others think they represent a qualitative change in the culture of civilian gun ownership. If you wanted to pin it down to something technical, I'd say it's because they're the spawn of a new doctrine in military small arms: more lead downrange, more enemy casualties. Precise aimed fire seems to have gone the way of snipers and the dodo. The small caliber is chosen to minimize recoil, for the sake of maintaining high rates of fire, whether in semi-auto or burst-fire mode. That doesn't relate to civilian uses of guns in any sensible way. Whether you accept the guns into the fold of civilian gun culture depends on whether you accept the concepts they represent. -- Ed Huntress Dan Ed Huntress |
#35
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On 3/19/2013 11:23 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:16:52 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Mar 19, 8:49 pm, Ed wrote: That's not the argument I'm talking about. The meaningful argument is about whether you have the votes. What argument? You either have the votes or don't have the votes. There is no argument. There is until the vote is taken. d8-) Arguing never changed anyone's mind about anything. In fact, it probably causes them to sling tighter to their opinions. If you can sway someone's opinion, they probably didn't have a solid opinion for you to change in the first place. I'm pretty sure voting never did either. |
#36
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On Mar 20, 12:23*am, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:16:52 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Mar 19, 8:49*pm, Ed Huntress wrote: That's not the argument I'm talking about. The meaningful argument is about whether you have the votes. What argument? *You either have the votes or don't have the votes. There is no argument. There is until the vote is taken. d8-) - Ed Huntress Wrong. There is speculation, but no argument. Saying how many people want to do sometihing is not an argument. Dan |
#37
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On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 22:53:33 -0500, Martin Eastburn
wrote: And to back up the half and half - Most women would love not to have a man in their life. They haven't been able to wipe us out to their desire or lack thereof. Martin And, along that line, logic dictates... http://tinyurl.com/c9k2qhh On 3/19/2013 10:53 AM, wrote: On Mar 19, 2:33 am, Ed Huntress wrote: So what? Assault rifles are despised by more than half of the US population and they want to ban them (data on request) because they're the vile weapons used in mass murders by lunatics. Ed Huntress Just because more than half of the U.S. population despises assault rifles and wants to ban them is not a valid argument for banning assault rifles. Assault rifles are the sort of rifles that armies use. The sort of gun that a well regulated militia should have. So banning them goes against the Constitution. And the rifles are just rifles. There is nothing vile about them. What is vile is the movies and video games that show people killing each other. I like seeing that because it takes it out of me. I love seeing some bad guy get what's coming to him. It's so unlike real life (amidst CONgresscritters (and Speaking Weasels and other libruls) where the bad guys are given more rights than the victims. I just watched Atlas Shrugged and believe that Ayn Rand was absolutely right. We ARE headed down that very same punkass path. -- In order to become the master, the politician poses as the servant. --Charles de Gaulle |
#38
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Machine Gun Parts kits
On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 06:50:21 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Mar 20, 12:23*am, Ed Huntress wrote: On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:16:52 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Mar 19, 8:49*pm, Ed Huntress wrote: That's not the argument I'm talking about. The meaningful argument is about whether you have the votes. What argument? *You either have the votes or don't have the votes. There is no argument. There is until the vote is taken. d8-) - Ed Huntress Wrong. There is speculation, but no argument. Saying how many people want to do sometihing is not an argument. Go for it, Dan. Whatever satisfies the definitions in your head is fine with me. -- Ed Huntress |
#39
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On 3/20/2013 9:01 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
I just watched Atlas Shrugged and believe that Ayn Rand was absolutely right. We ARE headed down that very same punkass path. Yep. I posted the same thought a month or two back. The nay sayers jumped all over me for it. But that's exactly where we are heading. Aviation hadn't developed all that far in Rand's day. Nothing like today. I wonder if air travel could become so expensive (and cars too) that rail will end up the only viable transportation? |
#40
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Machine Gun Parts kits
On Mar 20, 10:47*am, Ed Huntress wrote:
Wrong. *There is speculation, but no argument. *Saying how many people want to do sometihing is not an argument. Go for it, Dan. Whatever satisfies the definitions in your head is fine with me. -- Ed Huntress Try thinking. Dan |
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