My roommate has a '97 F250 7.2L gas, XLT 4 door pickup with a starter
problem.

She hits start..the starter solenoid on the fender well clicks..no
start.

I shorted across the primary power leads of the starter solenoid..no
start.

I had her hold the key in the start position and crawled underneith
and shorted across the two big nuts on the starter.... and it started.

I didnt think at the time to measure the small red wire power to the
solenoid ON the starter and only realized it as I sat down to type
this..damnit. I should know better..sigh

Assuming there is a start signal TO the bendix solenoid "coil"...can
they be repaired or is a starter replacement required.

I used to be pretty damned good at this sort of thing..the
stroke...shrug

Hell..I cant even remember the name for the coil that drives the
bendix.

Or am I missing something? This LOOKs like a basic starter with
switch operated solenoid ON the starter...powered by the small red
wire...but come to think of it..that fender mounted solenoid...wtf?

Sigh.

Help?


Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:15:47 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

My roommate has a '97 F250 7.2L gas, XLT 4 door pickup with a starter
problem.

She hits start..the starter solenoid on the fender well clicks..no
start.

I shorted across the primary power leads of the starter solenoid..no
start.

I had her hold the key in the start position and crawled underneith
and shorted across the two big nuts on the starter.... and it started.

I didnt think at the time to measure the small red wire power to the
solenoid ON the starter and only realized it as I sat down to type
this..damnit. I should know better..sigh

Assuming there is a start signal TO the bendix solenoid "coil"...can
they be repaired or is a starter replacement required.

I used to be pretty damned good at this sort of thing..the
stroke...shrug

Hell..I cant even remember the name for the coil that drives the
bendix.

They don't even have a "bendix" any more :-)


Or am I missing something? This LOOKs like a basic starter with
switch operated solenoid ON the starter...powered by the small red
wire...but come to think of it..that fender mounted solenoid...wtf?

Sigh.

Help?


Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
--
Cheers,

John B.

Gunner, this is your first half on topic post to the group in ages & for
a change you didn't spam it across half a dozen unrelated groups
involving politics, guns or survivalist crap!

When its guns, politics or your survivalist BS it ends up here? What gives?

You are doing my head in!

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
My roommate has a '97 F250 7.2L gas, XLT 4 door pickup with a
starter
problem....

Or am I missing something? This LOOKs like a basic starter with
switch operated solenoid ON the starter...powered by the small red
wire...but come to think of it..that fender mounted solenoid...wtf?
Gunner

Dunno about yours, but my 91 Ford has needed a new fender-mounted
solenoid and a new brush assembly in the starter motor. When the motor
brushes wore to their stops, vibration from messing around down there
apparently caused them to make contact again, briefly.

The factory manual for Aerostar/Explorer/Ranger shows starters both
with and without an external solenoid.
jsw

On 2013-02-11, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
My roommate has a '97 F250 7.2L gas, XLT 4 door pickup with a
starter
problem....

Or am I missing something? This LOOKs like a basic starter with
switch operated solenoid ON the starter...powered by the small red
wire...but come to think of it..that fender mounted solenoid...wtf?
Gunner

Dunno about yours, but my 91 Ford has needed a new fender-mounted
solenoid and a new brush assembly in the starter motor. When the motor
brushes wore to their stops, vibration from messing around down there
apparently caused them to make contact again, briefly.

The factory manual for Aerostar/Explorer/Ranger shows starters both
with and without an external solenoid.
jsw



Those starters are dirt cheap rebuilt. I have three reman ford
starters in my ebay store myself and I am asking 25 each.

D2AF-11131-CA 8A, E4TF-11131-AA, 3221

i

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 20:23:04 +0800, Dennis wrote:



Gunner, this is your first half on topic post to the group in ages & for
a change you didn't spam it across half a dozen unrelated groups
involving politics, guns or survivalist crap!

When its guns, politics or your survivalist BS it ends up here? What gives?

You are doing my head in!

Actually its not. But evidently you filter out much of it.

Now...do you actually know anything about the topic or are you simply
posting off topic?

VBG

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

Gunner fired this volley in
:

Gunner

I caught the tail of someone saying that the Bendix mechanism is no
longer used.

Except for "starterators", what starters don't have an engagement
mechanism that is or is like a Bendix?

Lloyd

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 09:31:47 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner fired this volley in
:

Gunner

I caught the tail of someone saying that the Bendix mechanism is no
longer used.

Except for "starterators", what starters don't have an engagement
mechanism that is or is like a Bendix?

Lloyd

I was kinda wondering about that myself.....

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:15:47 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

My roommate has a '97 F250 7.2L gas, XLT 4 door pickup with a starter
problem.

She hits start..the starter solenoid on the fender well clicks..no
start.

I shorted across the primary power leads of the starter solenoid..no
start.

I had her hold the key in the start position and crawled underneith
and shorted across the two big nuts on the starter.... and it started.

I didnt think at the time to measure the small red wire power to the
solenoid ON the starter and only realized it as I sat down to type
this..damnit. I should know better..sigh

Assuming there is a start signal TO the bendix solenoid "coil"...can
they be repaired or is a starter replacement required.

I used to be pretty damned good at this sort of thing..the
stroke...shrug

Hell..I cant even remember the name for the coil that drives the
bendix.

Or am I missing something? This LOOKs like a basic starter with
switch operated solenoid ON the starter...powered by the small red
wire...but come to think of it..that fender mounted solenoid...wtf?

Sigh.

Help?

Some assistance is required in defining terms.

The black round thingy on the fenderwell with a battery lead coming
in, a cable going out to the starter and a wire to operate it , is
called a what? Starter Relay? Solenoid?
Big honking relay?

The "electricly engaged" gizmo on the starter itself is called a what?

Starter Solenoid? Electric Bendix? Thingabobbie? Hodendragon?
Gizmatso?




The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:15:47 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

My roommate has a '97 F250 7.2L gas, XLT 4 door pickup with a starter
problem.

She hits start..the starter solenoid on the fender well clicks..no
start.

I shorted across the primary power leads of the starter solenoid..no
start.

I had her hold the key in the start position and crawled underneith
and shorted across the two big nuts on the starter.... and it started.

I didnt think at the time to measure the small red wire power to the
solenoid ON the starter and only realized it as I sat down to type
this..damnit. I should know better..sigh

Assuming there is a start signal TO the bendix solenoid "coil"...can
they be repaired or is a starter replacement required.

I used to be pretty damned good at this sort of thing..the
stroke...shrug

Hell..I cant even remember the name for the coil that drives the
bendix.

Or am I missing something? This LOOKs like a basic starter with
switch operated solenoid ON the starter...powered by the small red
wire...but come to think of it..that fender mounted solenoid...wtf?

Sigh.

Help?

Some assistance is required in defining terms.

The black round thingy on the fenderwell with a battery lead coming
in, a cable going out to the starter and a wire to operate it , is
called a what? Starter Relay? Solenoid?
Big honking relay?

The "electricly engaged" gizmo on the starter itself is called a what?

Starter Solenoid? Electric Bendix? Thingabobbie? Hodendragon?
Gizmatso?


Check your email...........

Gunner wrote in
:

My roommate has a '97 F250 7.2L gas, XLT 4 door pickup with a starter
problem.

She hits start..the starter solenoid on the fender well clicks..no
start.

That's the starter *relay*, not the solenoid. The solenoid is on (or in) the starter.

I shorted across the primary power leads of the starter solenoid..no
start.

*relay

What position was the ignition key in when you did this? I'm betting it wasn't Start.

I had her hold the key in the start position and crawled underneith
and shorted across the two big nuts on the starter.... and it started.

*that's* the solenoid. Sounds like the starter relay is bad -- shorting across the solenoid
terminals bypasses the relay.

I didnt think at the time to measure the small red wire power to the
solenoid ON the starter and only realized it as I sat down to type
this..damnit. I should know better..sigh

Do so. You probably will find 0V.
[...]
Hell..I cant even remember the name for the coil that drives the
bendix.

It's called the solenoid. There is no such part as a "starter bendix" -- Bendix is a *brand
name* for various automotive parts.

Or am I missing something? This LOOKs like a basic starter with
switch operated solenoid ON the starter...powered by the small red
wire...but come to think of it..that fender mounted solenoid...wtf?

Fender-mounted relay. It's quite common.

Gunner wrote in news:rd7ih8libpcj7l0f5pm5pljr7bdiimkudl@
4ax.com:

Some assistance is required in defining terms.

The black round thingy on the fenderwell with a battery lead coming
in, a cable going out to the starter and a wire to operate it , is
called a what? Starter Relay? Solenoid?
Big honking relay?

Starter relay. And I think that's what went bad on your friend's truck.

The "electricly engaged" gizmo on the starter itself is called a what?

Starter Solenoid? Electric Bendix? Thingabobbie? Hodendragon?
Gizmatso?

Starter solenoid.

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:15:47 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

My roommate has a '97 F250 7.2L gas, XLT 4 door pickup with a starter
problem.

7.5L V-8 gas?


She hits start..the starter solenoid on the fender well clicks..no
start.

I shorted across the primary power leads of the starter solenoid..no
start.

I had her hold the key in the start position and crawled underneith
and shorted across the two big nuts on the starter.... and it started.

Huh? Ford starters normally have one wire only to the starter. Are
you sure this wasn't a Chebby?

The Ford solenoid (starter relay) is fender-mounted and supplies hot
only when engaged. Crossing the battery cable should have turned it
over if it wasn't a starter problem.


I didnt think at the time to measure the small red wire power to the
solenoid ON the starter and only realized it as I sat down to type
this..damnit. I should know better..sigh

Yeah, the small wire energizes the coil for the bendix. Shorting
between the two large nuts should have -spun- the starter, not started
the truck. Very strange setup.

I was a Ford man but got out of the bidness in '86 with the back
injury.


Assuming there is a start signal TO the bendix solenoid "coil"...can
they be repaired or is a starter replacement required.

I used to be pretty damned good at this sort of thing..the
stroke...shrug


Hell..I cant even remember the name for the coil that drives the
bendix.

That would normally be the starter solenoid. Energizing the coil will
kick the bendix out to engage the ring gear and the contacts at the
back of the solenoid (which are closed by the kick-in) will spin-up
the starter. The way you tested it showed that the solenoid on the
starter is bad. Go with a lifetime-guaranteed rebuilt starter &
solenoid combo from Autozone. I had semi-bad luck with most rebuilds
from most shops until I found those. It's a new solenoid on a rebuilt
starter, with new bushings and freshly turned commutator.


Or am I missing something? This LOOKs like a basic starter with
switch operated solenoid ON the starter...powered by the small red

Huh! Why did Ford go to chebby-style starters?


wire...but come to think of it..that fender mounted solenoid...wtf?

Good question. Backup relay for the starter?!? Has Ford cut their
costs by hiring Chebby engineers? shudder

--
In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the
necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create.
-- Raoul Vaneigem

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:15:47 -0800, Gunner
wrote:



I used to be pretty damned good at this sort of thing
..the stroke...shrug

No, you were never any better than you are now. That's crystal clear
from reading this hilarious report of your imaginary diagnostic
skills.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.c...a5a4fb45355771
How many cans of PB blaster have you emptied on the starter so far?

I suggest you trade in your "board level" "electronics shop" for a
Clymer manual, and pay the nearest teenage gearhead to rescue you. In
the few minutes he takes to sort out the problem you might be able to
fit in a stupid yarn about rescuing your Victoria's Secret model
girlfriend from the Hell's Angels or something.

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 08:34:17 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 09:31:47 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner fired this volley in
m:

Gunner

I caught the tail of someone saying that the Bendix mechanism is no
longer used.

Except for "starterators", what starters don't have an engagement
mechanism that is or is like a Bendix?

Lloyd

I was kinda wondering about that myself.....

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Virtually ALL starters today are "pre-engage" starters. A Bendix is
an "inertiaEngage" device.

The old ford starters with the hickey on the side were a pre-engage
starter- the shoe was pulled in by the magnetic field of the one field
coil. Most pre-engage starters use a solenoid. A bendix used a helix
and engaged due to the inertia of the drive spinning it out the helix
as the armature jumped into rotation.

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 08:39:49 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:15:47 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

My roommate has a '97 F250 7.2L gas, XLT 4 door pickup with a starter
problem.

She hits start..the starter solenoid on the fender well clicks..no
start.

I shorted across the primary power leads of the starter solenoid..no
start.

I had her hold the key in the start position and crawled underneith
and shorted across the two big nuts on the starter.... and it started.

I didnt think at the time to measure the small red wire power to the
solenoid ON the starter and only realized it as I sat down to type
this..damnit. I should know better..sigh

Assuming there is a start signal TO the bendix solenoid "coil"...can
they be repaired or is a starter replacement required.

I used to be pretty damned good at this sort of thing..the
stroke...shrug

Hell..I cant even remember the name for the coil that drives the
bendix.

Or am I missing something? This LOOKs like a basic starter with
switch operated solenoid ON the starter...powered by the small red
wire...but come to think of it..that fender mounted solenoid...wtf?

Sigh.

Help?

Some assistance is required in defining terms.

The black round thingy on the fenderwell with a battery lead coming
in, a cable going out to the starter and a wire to operate it , is
called a what? Starter Relay? Solenoid?
Big honking relay?

The "electricly engaged" gizmo on the starter itself is called a what?

Starter Solenoid? Electric Bendix? Thingabobbie? Hodendragon?
Gizmatso?


The fender mounted round black thingy is referred to in the trade as a
"solenoid switch" - which is really a "honking big relay"

TheElectriclly engaged gizmo on the starter is generally reffered to
as the "starter solenoid" or "engagement solenoid".

Techinally, a pre-engage starter does not have a "bendix" as "bendix"
was a trade name for an INERTIA starter drive.

Generally on a vehicle using a solenoid applied pre-engage AND a
fender mounted solenoid switch, the apply solenoid coil is connected
to the main battery terminal of the starter (apply solenoid) and is
energized when power is applied to the starter by the solenoid switch.

Chrysler bacl in the sixties and seventies with their "high park
hummingbird" gear reduction starter connected the battery to the
contact of the solenoid and used a fender mounted relay to provide the
sizeable current required to pull in the apply solenoid without
passing all of that current through the starter/ignition switch and
the clutch or neutral safety switch.



The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 09:08:02 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:15:47 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

My roommate has a '97 F250 7.2L gas, XLT 4 door pickup with a starter
problem.

7.5L V-8 gas?


She hits start..the starter solenoid on the fender well clicks..no
start.

I shorted across the primary power leads of the starter solenoid..no
start.

I had her hold the key in the start position and crawled underneith
and shorted across the two big nuts on the starter.... and it started.

Huh? Ford starters normally have one wire only to the starter. Are
you sure this wasn't a Chebby?

The Ford solenoid (starter relay) is fender-mounted and supplies hot
only when engaged. Crossing the battery cable should have turned it
over if it wasn't a starter problem.


I didnt think at the time to measure the small red wire power to the
solenoid ON the starter and only realized it as I sat down to type
this..damnit. I should know better..sigh

Yeah, the small wire energizes the coil for the bendix. Shorting
between the two large nuts should have -spun- the starter, not started
the truck. Very strange setup.

I was a Ford man but got out of the bidness in '86 with the back
injury.


Assuming there is a start signal TO the bendix solenoid "coil"...can
they be repaired or is a starter replacement required.

I used to be pretty damned good at this sort of thing..the
stroke...shrug


Hell..I cant even remember the name for the coil that drives the
bendix.

That would normally be the starter solenoid. Energizing the coil will
kick the bendix out to engage the ring gear and the contacts at the
back of the solenoid (which are closed by the kick-in) will spin-up
the starter. The way you tested it showed that the solenoid on the
starter is bad. Go with a lifetime-guaranteed rebuilt starter &
solenoid combo from Autozone. I had semi-bad luck with most rebuilds
from most shops until I found those. It's a new solenoid on a rebuilt
starter, with new bushings and freshly turned commutator.


Or am I missing something? This LOOKs like a basic starter with
switch operated solenoid ON the starter...powered by the small red

Huh! Why did Ford go to chebby-style starters?


wire...but come to think of it..that fender mounted solenoid...wtf?

Good question. Backup relay for the starter?!? Has Ford cut their
costs by hiring Chebby engineers? shudder
By the description that is starting to come together hear, I would
say the contacts in the sterter mounted solenoid (apply solenoid)
have failed. The fender mounted starter solenoid switch and the
starter mounted starter apply solenoid are connected in series. With
the key in the start position, the fender mounted solenoid (relay)
pulls in and sends power down the heavy wire to the starter, and the
starter mounted apply solenoid pulls in, pre-engaging the starter
drive. It is SUPPOSED to also connect the power from the stud with the
battery cable on it to the stud where the starter fields connect to
the solenoid - but it doesn't - so jumping the 2 big contacts on the
starter with the starter relay energized starts the truck.

Almost certain there is a problem in the starter apply solenoid that
can be repaired by replacing the starter mounted apply solenoid.

Clear as mud now?????

Gunner writes:


Some assistance is required in defining terms.

The black round thingy on the fenderwell with a battery lead coming
in, a cable going out to the starter and a wire to operate it , is
called a what? Starter Relay? Solenoid?
Big honking relay?


Part of the problem is the language. To greasemonkeys, solenoid
means 1+ things.

On most cars, the big wire goes to the starter case, and so does
the small wire. The solenoid within is two things: a relay to
switch the current, and means to push the gear into the ring
gear.

Traditionally, Ford did not do that; they put the relay on the
fender, and used a spiral-threaded gadget called a Bendix to
automagically extend the output shaft to engage the ring gear.
Those starters may not have a small wire. And then some people
also call that fender relay a solenoid......

I have no idea if your vehicle has both or... but that
should help you grok the issue.

Take a voltmeter, put on the starter stud, and measure while
{not}cranking. That's clue #1.




--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

"Gunner"
On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:15:47 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

My roommate has a '97 F250 7.2L gas, XLT 4 door
pickup with a starter
problem.

She hits start..the starter solenoid on the
fender well clicks..no
start.

I shorted across the primary power leads of the
starter solenoid..no
start.

I had her hold the key in the start position and
crawled underneith
and shorted across the two big nuts on the
starter.... and it started.

I didnt think at the time to measure the small
red wire power to the
solenoid ON the starter and only realized it as
I sat down to type
this..damnit. I should know better..sigh

Assuming there is a start signal TO the bendix
solenoid "coil"...can
they be repaired or is a starter replacement
required.

I used to be pretty damned good at this sort of
thing..the
stroke...shrug

Hell..I cant even remember the name for the coil
that drives the
bendix.

Or am I missing something? This LOOKs like a
basic starter with
switch operated solenoid ON the
starter...powered by the small red
wire...but come to think of it..that fender
mounted solenoid...wtf?

Sigh.

Help?

Some assistance is required in defining terms.

The black round thingy on the fenderwell with a
battery lead coming
in, a cable going out to the starter and a wire
to operate it , is
called a what? Starter Relay? Solenoid?
Big honking relay?

The "electricly engaged" gizmo on the starter
itself is called a what?

Starter Solenoid? Electric Bendix?
Thingabobbie? Hodendragon?
Gizmatso?


Relay: a low power electrical circuit that
controls a high power circuit.

Solenoid: an electrical circuit controls a
mechanical function.

"Ignoramus22507" wrote in message ...
On 2013-02-11, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
My roommate has a '97 F250 7.2L gas, XLT 4 door pickup with a
starter
problem....

Or am I missing something? This LOOKs like a basic starter with
switch operated solenoid ON the starter...powered by the small red
wire...but come to think of it..that fender mounted solenoid...wtf?
Gunner

Dunno about yours, but my 91 Ford has needed a new fender-mounted
solenoid and a new brush assembly in the starter motor. When the motor
brushes wore to their stops, vibration from messing around down there
apparently caused them to make contact again, briefly.

The factory manual for Aerostar/Explorer/Ranger shows starters both
with and without an external solenoid.
jsw



Those starters are dirt cheap rebuilt. I have three reman ford
starters in my ebay store myself and I am asking 25 each.

D2AF-11131-CA 8A, E4TF-11131-AA, 3221

i

Your UPS shipping is over twice the UPS flat rate amount.

On Feb 11, 12:45*pm, "Phil Kangas" wrote:
"Gunner"





On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:15:47 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

My roommate has a '97 F250 7.2L gas, XLT 4 door
pickup with a starter
problem.

She hits start..the starter solenoid on the
fender well clicks..no
start.

I shorted across the primary power leads of the
starter solenoid..no
start.

I had her hold the key in the start position and
crawled underneith
and shorted across the two big nuts on the
starter.... and it started.

I didnt think at the time to measure the small
red wire power to the
solenoid ON the starter and only realized it as
I sat down to type
this..damnit. I should know better..sigh

Assuming there is a start signal TO the bendix
solenoid "coil"...can
they be repaired or is a starter replacement
required.

I used to be pretty damned good at this sort of
thing..the
stroke...shrug

Hell..I cant even remember the name for the coil
that drives the
bendix.

Or am I missing something? *This LOOKs like a
basic starter with
switch operated solenoid ON the
starter...powered by the small red
wire...but come to think of it..that fender
mounted solenoid...wtf?

Sigh.

Help?

Some assistance is required in defining terms.

The black round thingy on the fenderwell with a
battery lead coming
in, a cable going out to the starter *and a wire
to operate it , is
called a what? *Starter Relay? Solenoid?
Big honking relay?

The "electricly engaged" gizmo on the starter
itself is called a what?

Starter Solenoid? *Electric Bendix?
Thingabobbie? Hodendragon?
Gizmatso?

Relay: a low power electrical circuit that
controls a high power circuit.

Solenoid: an electrical circuit controls a
mechanical function.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, the starter relay is called a "solenoid" in well over half the
Ford manuals I have, also on the online parts sites. That's because
it IS a solenoid, has a thick copper disk on the core inside that
shorts out those big copper terminals to supply starting current. On
later versions, there are various other smaller terminals running to
other bits and bobs. At one time these solenoids/relays could be
taken apart, the contacts reversed in their holes in the case and the
disk flipped to get more life out of them.. Riveted together now,
good luck with it! If your time is worth anything, get a new one.
They run $10-$20, depending on who's doing the raping and where the
things were made, normally not the US now. Can be had off the inner
fenders or firewalls of most Ford vehicles in the wrecking yards for
cheap, they haven't changed the design much in decades, used one of
two configurations on most vehicles. The engagement solenoid on those
starters so equipped is also called the "starter solenoid", so if
you're looking for parts, you have to make it clear which part you're
looking for. Ford did make starters without an engagement solenoid,
they used a pivoted pole piece that flipped the starter gear out via a
bellcrank arrangement. Has a hump on the side, the pole piece cover,
instead of a tubular solenoid casing. Haven't seen one of those in
years, though.

The O.P.s primary problem is the starter relay/solenoid, but if it's
going, the starter might not be far behind. Brushes do wear, bearings
do give out. Had one quit in the grocery store parking lot, got out
and gave it a hammer rap, that jarred the brushes enough to start it
one more time, next stop was the car parts place, left the engine
running. Got to listen to what the buggy is telling you...

Stan

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 11:45:46 -0500, "Rick"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:15:47 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

My roommate has a '97 F250 7.2L gas, XLT 4 door pickup with a starter
problem.

She hits start..the starter solenoid on the fender well clicks..no
start.

I shorted across the primary power leads of the starter solenoid..no
start.

I had her hold the key in the start position and crawled underneith
and shorted across the two big nuts on the starter.... and it started.

I didnt think at the time to measure the small red wire power to the
solenoid ON the starter and only realized it as I sat down to type
this..damnit. I should know better..sigh

Assuming there is a start signal TO the bendix solenoid "coil"...can
they be repaired or is a starter replacement required.

I used to be pretty damned good at this sort of thing..the
stroke...shrug

Hell..I cant even remember the name for the coil that drives the
bendix.

Or am I missing something? This LOOKs like a basic starter with
switch operated solenoid ON the starter...powered by the small red
wire...but come to think of it..that fender mounted solenoid...wtf?

Sigh.

Help?

Some assistance is required in defining terms.

The black round thingy on the fenderwell with a battery lead coming
in, a cable going out to the starter and a wire to operate it , is
called a what? Starter Relay? Solenoid?
Big honking relay?

The "electricly engaged" gizmo on the starter itself is called a what?

Starter Solenoid? Electric Bendix? Thingabobbie? Hodendragon?
Gizmatso?


Check your email...........


Got em and thanks! It appears that the solenoid on the starter itself
is flakey.

Much obliged!

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 17:03:05 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

Gunner wrote in news:rd7ih8libpcj7l0f5pm5pljr7bdiimkudl@
4ax.com:

Some assistance is required in defining terms.

The black round thingy on the fenderwell with a battery lead coming
in, a cable going out to the starter and a wire to operate it , is
called a what? Starter Relay? Solenoid?
Big honking relay?

Starter relay. And I think that's what went bad on your friend's truck.

Nope..that works just hunky. Pulled the starter and bench tested
everything..it appears that the starter solenoid itself is "iffy"
Only two screws holding it to the starter body. removed it, appled
power to it..and sometimes it kicks..other times it doesnt. One of
the 5/16 copper primary power bolts is loose. I suspect its not making
good contact inside. I spritzed around and down it as best as I
could..couldnt get the shell off of it and then put a good nut on it
and tightened it down and now it works properly. Im still a bit
nervous about reinstalling it on the starter and putting it back in
the truck. Im afraid she will go somewhere and need a tow back to the
house.

The "electricly engaged" gizmo on the starter itself is called a what?

Starter Solenoid? Electric Bendix? Thingabobbie? Hodendragon?
Gizmatso?

Starter solenoid.

Thanks!

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 17:01:01 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

Gunner wrote in
:

My roommate has a '97 F250 7.2L gas, XLT 4 door pickup with a starter
problem.

She hits start..the starter solenoid on the fender well clicks..no
start.

That's the starter *relay*, not the solenoid. The solenoid is on (or in) the starter.

I shorted across the primary power leads of the starter solenoid..no
start.

*relay

What position was the ignition key in when you did this? I'm betting it wasn't Start.

I had her hold the key in the start position and crawled underneith
and shorted across the two big nuts on the starter.... and it started.

*that's* the solenoid. Sounds like the starter relay is bad -- shorting across the solenoid
terminals bypasses the relay.

I didnt think at the time to measure the small red wire power to the
solenoid ON the starter and only realized it as I sat down to type
this..damnit. I should know better..sigh

Do so. You probably will find 0V.

I do occasionally. It appears the switch in the steering column is
also flaky. It gives me a regular 13vts when in neutral and kicking
the key to start engagement portion. Occasionally 4-11volts in
Park..other times..nada.

So as long as she can fire it up in Neutral...that will work ok.

Its the starter solenoid thats iffy.
[...]
Hell..I cant even remember the name for the coil that drives the
bendix.

It's called the solenoid. There is no such part as a "starter bendix" -- Bendix is a *brand
name* for various automotive parts.

Or am I missing something? This LOOKs like a basic starter with
switch operated solenoid ON the starter...powered by the small red
wire...but come to think of it..that fender mounted solenoid...wtf?

Fender-mounted relay. It's quite common.

Thanks!!

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On 2013-02-11, Gunner wrote:
On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 11:45:46 -0500, "Rick"
wrote:

[ ... ]

Check your email...........


Got em and thanks! It appears that the solenoid on the starter itself
is flakey.

The solenoid or the contacts which it operates. It is
apparently both a solenoid for engaging the starter to the ring gear,
and also a relay, closing heavy duty contacts.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 09:31:47 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner fired this volley in
:

Gunner

I caught the tail of someone saying that the Bendix mechanism is no
longer used.

Except for "starterators", what starters don't have an engagement
mechanism that is or is like a Bendix?

Lloyd

The "Bendix" was a system to engage and disengage the starter motor
from the engine. It consisted of a helical "spline" on the shaft and a
internally splined pinion gear. When the starter motor started to turn
inertia causes the pinion to remain stationary, initially. The helical
spline caused the pinion to move along the shaft and engage the "ring
gear" on the flywheel, thus rotating the engine. The pinion and the
starter motor shaft were connected together by the "bendix spring"
that served to retract the pinion when the speed of the flywheel
mounted gear exceeded the speed of the pinion.

The Bendix system was apparently phased out some 50 years ago and
replaced by an overrunning clutch design.

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starter_(engine) for more details.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 13:45:50 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 08:39:49 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:15:47 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

My roommate has a '97 F250 7.2L gas, XLT 4 door pickup with a starter
problem.

She hits start..the starter solenoid on the fender well clicks..no
start.

I shorted across the primary power leads of the starter solenoid..no
start.

I had her hold the key in the start position and crawled underneith
and shorted across the two big nuts on the starter.... and it started.

I didnt think at the time to measure the small red wire power to the
solenoid ON the starter and only realized it as I sat down to type
this..damnit. I should know better..sigh

Assuming there is a start signal TO the bendix solenoid "coil"...can
they be repaired or is a starter replacement required.

I used to be pretty damned good at this sort of thing..the
stroke...shrug

Hell..I cant even remember the name for the coil that drives the
bendix.

Or am I missing something? This LOOKs like a basic starter with
switch operated solenoid ON the starter...powered by the small red
wire...but come to think of it..that fender mounted solenoid...wtf?

Sigh.

Help?

Some assistance is required in defining terms.

The black round thingy on the fenderwell with a battery lead coming
in, a cable going out to the starter and a wire to operate it , is
called a what? Starter Relay? Solenoid?
Big honking relay?

The "electricly engaged" gizmo on the starter itself is called a what?

Starter Solenoid? Electric Bendix? Thingabobbie? Hodendragon?
Gizmatso?


The fender mounted round black thingy is referred to in the trade as a
"solenoid switch" - which is really a "honking big relay"

TheElectriclly engaged gizmo on the starter is generally reffered to
as the "starter solenoid" or "engagement solenoid".

Techinally, a pre-engage starter does not have a "bendix" as "bendix"
was a trade name for an INERTIA starter drive.

Generally on a vehicle using a solenoid applied pre-engage AND a
fender mounted solenoid switch, the apply solenoid coil is connected
to the main battery terminal of the starter (apply solenoid) and is
energized when power is applied to the starter by the solenoid switch.

Chrysler bacl in the sixties and seventies with their "high park
hummingbird" gear reduction starter connected the battery to the
contact of the solenoid and used a fender mounted relay to provide the
sizeable current required to pull in the apply solenoid without
passing all of that current through the starter/ignition switch and
the clutch or neutral safety switch.

Thaniks for the info. I only rememberd the old starters with the
starter conneced directly to the battery and the solenoid wire from
the ignition switch fireing everything off. MY 2001 Ranger is done
the same "old way" as is the wifes Saturn.

So I was a bit confused when I found the starter relay on the firewall
as I dont recall ever seeing it done that way before.

Thanks guys!

Gunner


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 09:08:02 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:15:47 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

My roommate has a '97 F250 7.2L gas, XLT 4 door pickup with a starter
problem.

7.5L V-8 gas?


She hits start..the starter solenoid on the fender well clicks..no
start.

I shorted across the primary power leads of the starter solenoid..no
start.

I had her hold the key in the start position and crawled underneith
and shorted across the two big nuts on the starter.... and it started.

Huh? Ford starters normally have one wire only to the starter. Are
you sure this wasn't a Chebby?
F-250, 7.5 engine with a "rebuilt" starter in it. Has two wires...the
small wire controling the starter solenoid and a big one carrying the
load from the "starter relay" on the firewall.

The Ford solenoid (starter relay) is fender-mounted and supplies hot
only when engaged. Crossing the battery cable should have turned it
over if it wasn't a starter problem.


I didnt think at the time to measure the small red wire power to the
solenoid ON the starter and only realized it as I sat down to type
this..damnit. I should know better..sigh

Yeah, the small wire energizes the coil for the bendix. Shorting
between the two large nuts should have -spun- the starter, not started
the truck. Very strange setup.

I was a Ford man but got out of the bidness in '86 with the back
injury.


Assuming there is a start signal TO the bendix solenoid "coil"...can
they be repaired or is a starter replacement required.

I used to be pretty damned good at this sort of thing..the
stroke...shrug


Hell..I cant even remember the name for the coil that drives the
bendix.

That would normally be the starter solenoid. Energizing the coil will
kick the bendix out to engage the ring gear and the contacts at the
back of the solenoid (which are closed by the kick-in) will spin-up
the starter. The way you tested it showed that the solenoid on the
starter is bad. Go with a lifetime-guaranteed rebuilt starter &
solenoid combo from Autozone. I had semi-bad luck with most rebuilds
from most shops until I found those. It's a new solenoid on a rebuilt
starter, with new bushings and freshly turned commutator.


Or am I missing something? This LOOKs like a basic starter with
switch operated solenoid ON the starter...powered by the small red

Huh! Why did Ford go to chebby-style starters?


wire...but come to think of it..that fender mounted solenoid...wtf?

Good question. Backup relay for the starter?!? Has Ford cut their
costs by hiring Chebby engineers? shudder

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:15:04 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 09:31:47 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner fired this volley in
m:

Gunner

I caught the tail of someone saying that the Bendix mechanism is no
longer used.

Except for "starterators", what starters don't have an engagement
mechanism that is or is like a Bendix?

Lloyd

The "Bendix" was a system to engage and disengage the starter motor
from the engine. It consisted of a helical "spline" on the shaft and a
internally splined pinion gear. When the starter motor started to turn
inertia causes the pinion to remain stationary, initially. The helical
spline caused the pinion to move along the shaft and engage the "ring
gear" on the flywheel, thus rotating the engine. The pinion and the
starter motor shaft were connected together by the "bendix spring"
that served to retract the pinion when the speed of the flywheel
mounted gear exceeded the speed of the pinion.

The Bendix system was apparently phased out some 50 years ago and
replaced by an overrunning clutch design.

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starter_(engine) for more details.

Phased out 50 yrs ago? Odd...I see them with some regularity on
vehicles made in the 1970s. I had a Dodge Charger ...a 1973 model
that had one.

Humm...thats not all that far from 50 yrs ago..is it? Sigh.....

G

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

Gunner wrote in news:bjqjh8pgapbj49b770lh6h5eueet5c603i@
4ax.com:

Phased out 50 yrs ago? Odd...I see them with some regularity on
vehicles made in the 1970s. I had a Dodge Charger ...a 1973 model
that had one.

No, you didn't. Chrysler starters of the 60s and 70s had a simple plunger solenoid.

John B. fired this volley in
:

The Bendix system was apparently phased out some 50 years ago and
replaced by an overrunning clutch design.


Do you work on a lot of engines? The Bendix is alive and healthy.

LLoyd

Doug Miller fired this volley in
:

No, you didn't. Chrysler starters of the 60s and 70s had a simple
plunger solenoid.

Most solenoids - even those acting as starter contactors - are "simple
plunger solenoids".

I have four cars, three lawnmowers, one tractor, and one forklift.
The four cars are all under 15 years old, and two of them have Bendix-
style starters. Both lawnmowers are under 5 years old, and do. So do
the tractor and forklift.

Even starters where the solenoid "helps" the pinion out with a fork and
spring-loaded pusher (not the positive pre-engagement style) often still
have the Bendix helix to help force the pinion back out of engagement
after the motor starts.

My Toyota van and Mitsubishi Galant have overrunning sprag clutches with
a forked solenoid and helper springs for a "modified pre-engagement".

I don't disagree that there are now other designs than the Bendix (maybe
more than not), but it's a little over-reaching to say it was
"abandoned".

LLoyd

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 23:10:15 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:15:04 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 09:31:47 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner fired this volley in
:

Gunner

I caught the tail of someone saying that the Bendix mechanism is no
longer used.

Except for "starterators", what starters don't have an engagement
mechanism that is or is like a Bendix?

Lloyd

The "Bendix" was a system to engage and disengage the starter motor
from the engine. It consisted of a helical "spline" on the shaft and a
internally splined pinion gear. When the starter motor started to turn
inertia causes the pinion to remain stationary, initially. The helical
spline caused the pinion to move along the shaft and engage the "ring
gear" on the flywheel, thus rotating the engine. The pinion and the
starter motor shaft were connected together by the "bendix spring"
that served to retract the pinion when the speed of the flywheel
mounted gear exceeded the speed of the pinion.

The Bendix system was apparently phased out some 50 years ago and
replaced by an overrunning clutch design.

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starter_(engine) for more details.

Phased out 50 yrs ago? Odd...I see them with some regularity on
vehicles made in the 1970s. I had a Dodge Charger ...a 1973 model
that had one.

Humm...thats not all that far from 50 yrs ago..is it? Sigh.....

And the charger in '73 had a pre=engage starter with over-running
clutch - NOT a "bendix"

G

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:49:59 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

John B. fired this volley in
:

The Bendix system was apparently phased out some 50 years ago and
replaced by an overrunning clutch design.


Do you work on a lot of engines? The Bendix is alive and healthy.

LLoyd
Nope - the genuine "bendix" style drive is pretty well limited to
things like snow-blowers etc with 120 volt starters. Virtually ALL
automotive starters use pre-engage starters with over-running
clutches, Don't know when I last saw an actual Bendix style drive on
an automobile - but it goes back to the seventies at least.

On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:56:15 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Doug Miller fired this volley in
:

No, you didn't. Chrysler starters of the 60s and 70s had a simple
plunger solenoid.

Most solenoids - even those acting as starter contactors - are "simple
plunger solenoids".

I have four cars, three lawnmowers, one tractor, and one forklift.
The four cars are all under 15 years old, and two of them have Bendix-
style starters. Both lawnmowers are under 5 years old, and do. So do
the tractor and forklift.

What kind of car?
And what forklift?
Even starters where the solenoid "helps" the pinion out with a fork and
spring-loaded pusher (not the positive pre-engagement style) often still
have the Bendix helix to help force the pinion back out of engagement
after the motor starts.

Vast majority have one way clutch

My Toyota van and Mitsubishi Galant have overrunning sprag clutches with
a forked solenoid and helper springs for a "modified pre-engagement".

I don't disagree that there are now other designs than the Bendix (maybe
more than not), but it's a little over-reaching to say it was
"abandoned".

LLoyd

Den 12-02-2013 18:42, skrev:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:49:59 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

John B. fired this volley in
:

The Bendix system was apparently phased out some 50 years ago and
replaced by an overrunning clutch design.


Do you work on a lot of engines? The Bendix is alive and healthy.

LLoyd
Nope - the genuine "bendix" style drive is pretty well limited to
things like snow-blowers etc with 120 volt starters. Virtually ALL
automotive starters use pre-engage starters with over-running
clutches, Don't know when I last saw an actual Bendix style drive on
an automobile - but it goes back to the seventies at least.

Maybe that is the case with US starters.
However the vast majority of European an Japanese starters today use a
combination of both solenoid/pre-engage and Bendix.



--
Uffe

Den 12-02-2013 18:42, skrev:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:49:59 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

John B. fired this volley in
:

The Bendix system was apparently phased out some 50 years ago and
replaced by an overrunning clutch design.


Do you work on a lot of engines? The Bendix is alive and healthy.

LLoyd
Nope - the genuine "bendix" style drive is pretty well limited to
things like snow-blowers etc with 120 volt starters. Virtually ALL
automotive starters use pre-engage starters with over-running
clutches, Don't know when I last saw an actual Bendix style drive on
an automobile - but it goes back to the seventies at least.

Maybe that is the case with US starters.
However the vast majority of European an Japanese starters today use a
combination of both solenoid/pre-engage and Bendix.



--
Uffe

On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 22:40:37 +0100, Uffe Bærentsen
wrote:

Den 12-02-2013 18:42, skrev:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:49:59 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

John B. fired this volley in
:

The Bendix system was apparently phased out some 50 years ago and
replaced by an overrunning clutch design.


Do you work on a lot of engines? The Bendix is alive and healthy.

LLoyd
Nope - the genuine "bendix" style drive is pretty well limited to
things like snow-blowers etc with 120 volt starters. Virtually ALL
automotive starters use pre-engage starters with over-running
clutches, Don't know when I last saw an actual Bendix style drive on
an automobile - but it goes back to the seventies at least.

Maybe that is the case with US starters.
However the vast majority of European an Japanese starters today use a
combination of both solenoid/pre-engage and Bendix.

Well, I can't comment on all Japanese cars but certainly the Toyota
sedan I bought new in 1990 did not have a "bendix" nor did the Honda
Civic I bought my wife in '95 nor the current Honda Jazz (probably
"Fit" to you), nor my present 10 year old Isuzu pickup.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 22:39:21 +0100, Uffe Bærentsen
wrote:

Den 12-02-2013 18:42, skrev:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:49:59 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

John B. fired this volley in
:

The Bendix system was apparently phased out some 50 years ago and
replaced by an overrunning clutch design.


Do you work on a lot of engines? The Bendix is alive and healthy.

LLoyd
Nope - the genuine "bendix" style drive is pretty well limited to
things like snow-blowers etc with 120 volt starters. Virtually ALL
automotive starters use pre-engage starters with over-running
clutches, Don't know when I last saw an actual Bendix style drive on
an automobile - but it goes back to the seventies at least.

Maybe that is the case with US starters.
However the vast majority of European an Japanese starters today use a
combination of both solenoid/pre-engage and Bendix.
The starter drive on a Nippondenso geared starter LOOKS like a Bendix,
but what the helix does is turns the gear as it engages to prevent the
teeth from butting. This is accomplished on a direct drive starter
by the current flowing through the pull-in coil of the solenoid which
starts the armature turning as the gear is pre-engaged. The starter
does not start to crank under full power untill the gear is virtually
fully engaged.

On a reduction starter this system cannot be used . The motor is
geared very highly to the drive, so it would need to spin faster than
the current through the pull-in coil could turn it to assure the gear
turned enoug to avoid the teeth butting.

I recieved Toyota factory training on the Nippondenso geared starter
when it ws first introduced on the 4M engine in the 1972 1/2 Mark 2
Corona and it was very well explained at that time. The information is
actually available on line - oh the joys of the internet - at
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h7.pdf.

So, as you can see, although it looks like a duck, it does't exactly
quack or crap like a duck.

On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 22:40:37 +0100, Uffe Bærentsen
wrote:

Den 12-02-2013 18:42, skrev:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:49:59 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

John B. fired this volley in
:

The Bendix system was apparently phased out some 50 years ago and
replaced by an overrunning clutch design.


Do you work on a lot of engines? The Bendix is alive and healthy.

LLoyd
Nope - the genuine "bendix" style drive is pretty well limited to
things like snow-blowers etc with 120 volt starters. Virtually ALL
automotive starters use pre-engage starters with over-running
clutches, Don't know when I last saw an actual Bendix style drive on
an automobile - but it goes back to the seventies at least.

Maybe that is the case with US starters.
However the vast majority of European an Japanese starters today use a
combination of both solenoid/pre-engage and Bendix.
By the way - I'm more familliar with the Japanese way of doing
things than the American - having been a Toyota Tech since back in
1972, and a Toyota service manager for 10 years. - and as explained
in my last post - it is NOT a bendix (inertia) drive). It is a
pre-rotator on a pre-engaged gear reduction starter.