Hi all -

I apologize for posting this on-topic query - I am a bit reluctant to
interrupt the random streams of political babbling that seem to
monopolize the rec.craft.metalworking group...

Anyhow, we recently acquired a rather nice Chicago 24" box and pan brake
and the acquisition has engendered a desire to do more with sheet metal.

We're (as always) limited on floor space and would like to add the
capacity to shear and maybe roll form sheet metal parts. The original
plan was to use the plasma cutter for 'shearing' but now we're thinking
about getting one of the '3-in-1' shear/brake/roller combinations - and
maybe re-selling the Chicago brake (that's a big maybe)

Comparing the 30" machines we find on the net, the Enco 30" claims 20
gauge capacity, the Grizzly 22 gauge, the Jet 20 gauge and the shudder
Harbor Freight says 20 gauge.

Is it possible that all of these come from the same production line in
India or China and going with the cheapest will give us exactly the same
machine with a different paint job, or is one superior to the others? Is
there another alternative in the same price range that we should be
looking at?

Also, to do boxes with neat corners we're thinking about getting a hand
notcher like the Enco or Jet... or maybe spending a little more for a
'nibbler' for our ironworker and giving us the capacity to notch much
heavier material for structural stuff in addition to the sheet metal
pieces. Any thoughts?

Also, this has now become time sensitive as Enco has a 20% off 'cyber
Monday' sale on the 26th (tomorrow) and if theirs is any better than the
HF one it would be worth pursuing...

Thanks in advance

Carla

Too bad that all the people who know how to run this country are busy
driving taxis and cutting hair. - George Burns

"Carla Fong" wrote in message
...
Hi all -

I apologize for posting this on-topic query - I am a bit reluctant to
interrupt the random streams of political babbling that seem to
monopolize the rec.craft.metalworking group...

Anyhow, we recently acquired a rather nice Chicago 24" box and pan brake
and the acquisition has engendered a desire to do more with sheet metal.

We're (as always) limited on floor space and would like to add the
capacity to shear and maybe roll form sheet metal parts. The original
plan was to use the plasma cutter for 'shearing' but now we're thinking
about getting one of the '3-in-1' shear/brake/roller combinations - and
maybe re-selling the Chicago brake (that's a big maybe)

Comparing the 30" machines we find on the net, the Enco 30" claims 20
gauge capacity, the Grizzly 22 gauge, the Jet 20 gauge and the shudder
Harbor Freight says 20 gauge.

Is it possible that all of these come from the same production line in
India or China and going with the cheapest will give us exactly the same
machine with a different paint job, or is one superior to the others? Is
there another alternative in the same price range that we should be
looking at?

They may or may not come from the same group of factories, but from what I
have seen Grizzly does an order of magnitude better quality control than
Harbor Freight. I have not purchased any heavy metal working equipment from
Enco or Jet. I do have a Jet 220V commercial radial arm saw, and given what
it cost I was very disappointed in their QC.

At one time my cousin was doing QC for an specialty market importer. They
were high end, and they rejected about 30% of all small parts and 20% of all
equipment.

On 2012-11-25, Carla Fong wrote:
Hi all -

I apologize for posting this on-topic query - I am a bit reluctant to
interrupt the random streams of political babbling that seem to
monopolize the rec.craft.metalworking group...

I'm *glad* to see more actual metalworking content. I recently
reconfigured my killfile (filtering) to see how many were actually being
killed, and it is amazing (and rather depressing). (It also lets me
catch some which are killed which I would actually want to read -- my
filters are rather aggressive~.)

Anyhow, we recently acquired a rather nice Chicago 24" box and pan brake
and the acquisition has engendered a desire to do more with sheet metal.

What is the maximum gauge that one will handle? I've got an old
DiAcro which will handle up to 16 ga mild steel, and somewhat thicker
aluminum.

We're (as always) limited on floor space and would like to add the
capacity to shear and maybe roll form sheet metal parts. The original
plan was to use the plasma cutter for 'shearing' but now we're thinking
about getting one of the '3-in-1' shear/brake/roller combinations - and
maybe re-selling the Chicago brake (that's a big maybe)

I don't know the Chicago, but what I have heard about the 3-in-1
ones is that they are *all* over-rated, and will break easily if used
even close to their official rating.

Comparing the 30" machines we find on the net, the Enco 30" claims 20
gauge capacity, the Grizzly 22 gauge, the Jet 20 gauge and the shudder
Harbor Freight says 20 gauge.

It sounds to me as though Grizzly is being a little more honest
about the capacity.

Is it possible that all of these come from the same production line in
India or China and going with the cheapest will give us exactly the same
machine with a different paint job, or is one superior to the others?

Unless there are better bearings in some of them, I suspect that
they are pretty much the same tool

Is
there another alternative in the same price range that we should be
looking at?

Not in 3-in-1 machines as far as I know.

Perhaps get individual machines, and weld up a stand to support
them one above the other. You can look at old machines.

Also, to do boxes with neat corners we're thinking about getting a hand
notcher like the Enco or Jet... or maybe spending a little more for a
'nibbler' for our ironworker and giving us the capacity to notch much
heavier material for structural stuff in addition to the sheet metal
pieces. Any thoughts?

I got a used (and unbranded) corner notcher (also 16 ga
capacity) and I *did* weld up a stand for that, because there was not
enough room on the bench where the 24" DiAcro shear was mounted. Since
I was not sure about the quality of the welds I could produce (I was
still learning) I over-designed it, and designed it with the notching
shear set back on the stand so I could use it without bolting it to the
floor. There is enough room inside the frame so I mounted a spot welder
in there to save some space.

Also, this has now become time sensitive as Enco has a 20% off 'cyber
Monday' sale on the 26th (tomorrow) and if theirs is any better than the
HF one it would be worth pursuing...

I think that there is no difference to be expected in the various
machines -- though perhaps better support from someone like Grizzly.

Personally, I have been focusing mostly on used DiAcro machines
as better construction and better bearings (needle roller bearings in
the brake and the shear IIRC.

Is 20 gauge strong enough for what you want to make now? How
about what you will want to make in the future?

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 11:30:33 -0800, Carla Fong wrote:

Hi all -

I apologize for posting this on-topic query - I am a bit reluctant to
interrupt the random streams of political babbling that seem to
monopolize the rec.craft.metalworking group...

Anyhow, we recently acquired a rather nice Chicago 24" box and pan brake
and the acquisition has engendered a desire to do more with sheet metal.

We're (as always) limited on floor space and would like to add the
capacity to shear and maybe roll form sheet metal parts. The original
plan was to use the plasma cutter for 'shearing' but now we're thinking
about getting one of the '3-in-1' shear/brake/roller combinations - and
maybe re-selling the Chicago brake (that's a big maybe)

Comparing the 30" machines we find on the net, the Enco 30" claims 20
gauge capacity, the Grizzly 22 gauge, the Jet 20 gauge and the shudder
Harbor Freight says 20 gauge.

Is it possible that all of these come from the same production line in
India or China and going with the cheapest will give us exactly the same
machine with a different paint job, or is one superior to the others? Is
there another alternative in the same price range that we should be
looking at?

Also, to do boxes with neat corners we're thinking about getting a hand
notcher like the Enco or Jet... or maybe spending a little more for a
'nibbler' for our ironworker and giving us the capacity to notch much
heavier material for structural stuff in addition to the sheet metal
pieces. Any thoughts?

Also, this has now become time sensitive as Enco has a 20% off 'cyber
Monday' sale on the 26th (tomorrow) and if theirs is any better than the
HF one it would be worth pursuing...


Dunno about which 3-in-1 machine to buy, but I _do_ know that the bending
brake on a 3-in-1 machine is miles away from being as capable as a box
break.

For starters, you can't make boxes on it -- you can only bend angles in
flat sheets, there's no way to make a bend hard up against another bend
as you do to make a box.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

On 26 Nov 2012 04:30:31 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:


Comparing the 30" machines we find on the net, the Enco 30" claims 20
gauge capacity, the Grizzly 22 gauge, the Jet 20 gauge and the shudder
Harbor Freight says 20 gauge.

It sounds to me as though Grizzly is being a little more honest
about the capacity.

I cant speak for Grizzley..but Jet has so far..been pretty honest
about their presses and brakes.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...

Dunno about which 3-in-1 machine to buy, but I _do_ know that the
bending
brake on a 3-in-1 machine is miles away from being as capable as a
box
break.

For starters, you can't make boxes on it -- you can only bend angles
in
flat sheets, there's no way to make a bend hard up against another
bend
as you do to make a box.
Tim Wescott

My 3-in-1 has multiple male die plates that can be rearranged to fit
inside the box. Custom ones aren't difficult to make from 1/4" steel.

When I had both a finger brake and a 3-in-1 to compare I didn't see
much difference between the jobs they could do, though the finger
brake was much nicer to use. It would bend at a pencil line while the
3-in-1 pretty much required the back gauge to locate a bend. I was
bending heatsinks and support brackets and needed versatility more
than exact dimensional accuracy.

The female die on the 3-in-1 scratches the metal being dragged over
it. Padding or polishing the die helps.

jsw

Tim Wescott wrote:

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 11:30:33 -0800, Carla Fong wrote:

Hi all -

I apologize for posting this on-topic query - I am a bit reluctant to
interrupt the random streams of political babbling that seem to
monopolize the rec.craft.metalworking group...

Anyhow, we recently acquired a rather nice Chicago 24" box and pan brake
and the acquisition has engendered a desire to do more with sheet metal.

We're (as always) limited on floor space and would like to add the
capacity to shear and maybe roll form sheet metal parts. The original
plan was to use the plasma cutter for 'shearing' but now we're thinking
about getting one of the '3-in-1' shear/brake/roller combinations - and
maybe re-selling the Chicago brake (that's a big maybe)

Comparing the 30" machines we find on the net, the Enco 30" claims 20
gauge capacity, the Grizzly 22 gauge, the Jet 20 gauge and the shudder
Harbor Freight says 20 gauge.

Is it possible that all of these come from the same production line in
India or China and going with the cheapest will give us exactly the same
machine with a different paint job, or is one superior to the others? Is
there another alternative in the same price range that we should be
looking at?

Also, to do boxes with neat corners we're thinking about getting a hand
notcher like the Enco or Jet... or maybe spending a little more for a
'nibbler' for our ironworker and giving us the capacity to notch much
heavier material for structural stuff in addition to the sheet metal
pieces. Any thoughts?

Also, this has now become time sensitive as Enco has a 20% off 'cyber
Monday' sale on the 26th (tomorrow) and if theirs is any better than the
HF one it would be worth pursuing...


Dunno about which 3-in-1 machine to buy, but I _do_ know that the bending
brake on a 3-in-1 machine is miles away from being as capable as a box
break.

For starters, you can't make boxes on it -- you can only bend angles in
flat sheets, there's no way to make a bend hard up against another bend
as you do to make a box.

? The 3-in-1 machines have movable bend fingers in various sizes that
you can remove, rearrange, or gap as needed. I have the HF 3-in-1 and
while I don't do a lot of sheet metal work, it has done what I've asked
it to do.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 07:28:17 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


? The 3-in-1 machines have movable bend fingers in various sizes that
you can remove, rearrange, or gap as needed. I have the HF 3-in-1 and
while I don't do a lot of sheet metal work, it has done what I've asked
it to do.

I have a little luggable HF 12" one (no longer sold) and have been
able to bend prototype aluminum boxes with flanges. They're pretty
handy to have around, but I've never tried to tax the capacity- 1.5mm
or so aluminum is about the thickest. They're nice for shearing PCBs
and other insulating material too. It helps to take them apart and
clean them and adjust the blade alignment, which may have shifted on
the boat etc. from Anhui province. Mine had some Chinese newspaper
shims.

"Carla Fong" wrote in message
...
Hi all -

I apologize for posting this on-topic query - I am a bit reluctant to
interrupt the random streams of political babbling that seem to
monopolize the rec.craft.metalworking group...

Anyhow, we recently acquired a rather nice Chicago 24" box and pan brake
and the acquisition has engendered a desire to do more with sheet metal.

We're (as always) limited on floor space and would like to add the
capacity to shear and maybe roll form sheet metal parts. The original
plan was to use the plasma cutter for 'shearing' but now we're thinking
about getting one of the '3-in-1' shear/brake/roller combinations - and
maybe re-selling the Chicago brake (that's a big maybe)

Comparing the 30" machines we find on the net, the Enco 30" claims 20
gauge capacity, the Grizzly 22 gauge, the Jet 20 gauge and the shudder
Harbor Freight says 20 gauge.

Is it possible that all of these come from the same production line in
India or China and going with the cheapest will give us exactly the same
machine with a different paint job, or is one superior to the others? Is
there another alternative in the same price range that we should be
looking at?

Also, to do boxes with neat corners we're thinking about getting a hand
notcher like the Enco or Jet... or maybe spending a little more for a
'nibbler' for our ironworker and giving us the capacity to notch much
heavier material for structural stuff in addition to the sheet metal
pieces. Any thoughts?

Also, this has now become time sensitive as Enco has a 20% off 'cyber
Monday' sale on the 26th (tomorrow) and if theirs is any better than the
HF one it would be worth pursuing...

Thanks in advance

Carla

Too bad that all the people who know how to run this country are busy
driving taxis and cutting hair. - George Burns


For all intents and purposes these are all the same machines with minor
variations in fit and finish.

The shear is very fiddly to get adjusted right but once you do it runs
pretty well.
The true capacities are all the same the same and less than they state.
Once set up, they will reliably shear 24g steel and up to 20g nonferrous,
full length,
They will cut thicker stock in shorter lengths, close to the frame.
Mine will cut through 16g brass of less than 6" long cut.
Order a box of decent 6mm x12mm and 8mm x 20mm at the same time, you will
need them.

Paul K. Dickman

Thanks to all the respondents.

We now know that most of these probably are of the same parentage...

We evaluated our mechanical requirements and space available and figured
the 30" machine would be overkill ...

Baileigh Industrial seems to be the only company offering a machine
smaller than 30" - they have a little 12 incher for about $400 (they are
very proud of their iron - and their reputation) that will be a good
entry point for us - and we can always up-size later to a wider machine
if needed...

So, we ordered the 12 inch version and will give a report to the group
after receiving it and playing for a while.

Thanks again for all the input... it was very helpful.

Carla

On 11/25/2012 11:30 AM, Carla Fong wrote:
Hi all -

I apologize for posting this on-topic query - I am a bit reluctant to
interrupt the random streams of political babbling that seem to
monopolize the rec.craft.metalworking group...

Anyhow, we recently acquired a rather nice Chicago 24" box and pan brake
and the acquisition has engendered a desire to do more with sheet metal.

We're (as always) limited on floor space and would like to add the
capacity to shear and maybe roll form sheet metal parts. The original
plan was to use the plasma cutter for 'shearing' but now we're thinking
about getting one of the '3-in-1' shear/brake/roller combinations - and
maybe re-selling the Chicago brake (that's a big maybe)

Comparing the 30" machines we find on the net, the Enco 30" claims 20
gauge capacity, the Grizzly 22 gauge, the Jet 20 gauge and the shudder
Harbor Freight says 20 gauge.

Is it possible that all of these come from the same production line in
India or China and going with the cheapest will give us exactly the same
machine with a different paint job, or is one superior to the others? Is
there another alternative in the same price range that we should be
looking at?

Also, to do boxes with neat corners we're thinking about getting a hand
notcher like the Enco or Jet... or maybe spending a little more for a
'nibbler' for our ironworker and giving us the capacity to notch much
heavier material for structural stuff in addition to the sheet metal
pieces. Any thoughts?

Also, this has now become time sensitive as Enco has a 20% off 'cyber
Monday' sale on the 26th (tomorrow) and if theirs is any better than the
HF one it would be worth pursuing...

Thanks in advance

Carla

Too bad that all the people who know how to run this country are busy
driving taxis and cutting hair. - George Burns

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:28:28 -0800, Carla Fong
wrote:


Thanks to all the respondents.

We now know that most of these probably are of the same parentage...

FWIW, aside from obvious labeling and painting-to-suit-the-customer
it's common for the basic designs to be the same in China, but
produced in different factories, with different tooling and different
quality control. I don't know how this situation came about, some day
I'll bother to find out.

We evaluated our mechanical requirements and space available and figured
the 30" machine would be overkill ...

Baileigh Industrial seems to be the only company offering a machine
smaller than 30" - they have a little 12 incher for about $400 (they are
very proud of their iron - and their reputation) that will be a good
entry point for us - and we can always up-size later to a wider machine
if needed...

So, we ordered the 12 inch version and will give a report to the group
after receiving it and playing for a while.

Design looks identical to the one I have.. which was $169 including
shipping, 12 or so years ago, back when the USD bought a lot more Yuan
and other things. Last time I looked, everything was around what you
said, depending on shipping.

You'll probably want to get the cosmoline stuff off it, but mine
worked perfectly out of its little crate.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 07:28:17 -0600, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 11:30:33 -0800, Carla Fong wrote:

Hi all -

I apologize for posting this on-topic query - I am a bit reluctant to
interrupt the random streams of political babbling that seem to
monopolize the rec.craft.metalworking group...

Anyhow, we recently acquired a rather nice Chicago 24" box and pan
brake and the acquisition has engendered a desire to do more with
sheet metal.

We're (as always) limited on floor space and would like to add the
capacity to shear and maybe roll form sheet metal parts. The original
plan was to use the plasma cutter for 'shearing' but now we're
thinking about getting one of the '3-in-1' shear/brake/roller
combinations - and maybe re-selling the Chicago brake (that's a big
maybe)

Comparing the 30" machines we find on the net, the Enco 30" claims 20
gauge capacity, the Grizzly 22 gauge, the Jet 20 gauge and the
shudder Harbor Freight says 20 gauge.

Is it possible that all of these come from the same production line
in India or China and going with the cheapest will give us exactly
the same machine with a different paint job, or is one superior to
the others? Is there another alternative in the same price range that
we should be looking at?

Also, to do boxes with neat corners we're thinking about getting a
hand notcher like the Enco or Jet... or maybe spending a little more
for a 'nibbler' for our ironworker and giving us the capacity to
notch much heavier material for structural stuff in addition to the
sheet metal pieces. Any thoughts?

Also, this has now become time sensitive as Enco has a 20% off 'cyber
Monday' sale on the 26th (tomorrow) and if theirs is any better than
the HF one it would be worth pursuing...


Dunno about which 3-in-1 machine to buy, but I _do_ know that the
bending brake on a 3-in-1 machine is miles away from being as capable
as a box break.

For starters, you can't make boxes on it -- you can only bend angles in
flat sheets, there's no way to make a bend hard up against another bend
as you do to make a box.

? The 3-in-1 machines have movable bend fingers in various sizes that
you can remove, rearrange, or gap as needed. I have the HF 3-in-1 and
while I don't do a lot of sheet metal work, it has done what I've asked
it to do.

Thanks for the correction, Pete, Jim.

The 3-in-1 machine that I have experience with had a solid male die that
extended the whole length of the machine, and (IIRC) was not easily
removable.

Making one in sections would certainly make the machine far more suitable
for making boxes &c.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:13:42 -0500, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:28:28 -0800, Carla Fong
wrote:


Thanks to all the respondents.

We now know that most of these probably are of the same parentage...

FWIW, aside from obvious labeling and painting-to-suit-the-customer it's
common for the basic designs to be the same in China, but produced in
different factories, with different tooling and different quality
control. I don't know how this situation came about, some day I'll
bother to find out.

I think that they don't just shamelessly copy from US designs -- they
shamelessly copy from _anyone_.

(Actually, I think that the whole concept of "copyright", which was
pretty much invented wholesale in northern Europe at the advent of the
printing press, just never made it to the far east).

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:28:28 -0800
Carla Fong wrote:

snip
We evaluated our mechanical requirements and space available and figured
the 30" machine would be overkill ...

Baileigh Industrial seems to be the only company offering a machine
smaller than 30" - they have a little 12 incher for about $400 (they are
very proud of their iron - and their reputation) that will be a good
entry point for us - and we can always up-size later to a wider machine
if needed...
snip

A bit late I'm afraid...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-S...Machine/T21320

If nothing else, Grizzly usually has a nice manual and parts list you
can download.


--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:18:40 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:13:42 -0500, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:28:28 -0800, Carla Fong
wrote:


Thanks to all the respondents.

We now know that most of these probably are of the same parentage...

FWIW, aside from obvious labeling and painting-to-suit-the-customer it's
common for the basic designs to be the same in China, but produced in
different factories, with different tooling and different quality
control. I don't know how this situation came about, some day I'll
bother to find out.

I think that they don't just shamelessly copy from US designs -- they
shamelessly copy from _anyone_.


To have shame, you have to believe you've done something wrong.

Sharing designs is not inherently wrong.

We don't castigate fastener makers for making screws that are similar
to other other maker's fasteners, in fact we expect them to conform to
ANSI, ASME, JIS, ISO or whatever dimensions etc. unless there is a
good reason to deviate. It's in the nature of capitalism to want to
commodify all inputs to the process and make the outputs unique and/or
single-sourced- so there's always going to be a kind of trade-off
depending on what companies and people can get the government to do to
intervene in what would otherwise be a free-for-all.

(Actually, I think that the whole concept of "copyright", which was
pretty much invented wholesale in northern Europe at the advent of the
printing press, just never made it to the far east).

Knowledge has belonged to the commons for much longer, and generally
excluding it is a temporary thing (patents, for example) upon which it
reverts to its natural state. Copyright is a bit of an anomaly-
lasting many generations..according to the Wiki page Jefferson wanted
to grant only brief protection. But Disney and such like have a lot of
money to lobby with, hence the Mickey Mouse Protection Act:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyrig..._Extension_Act

On Nov 25, 1:30*pm, Carla Fong wrote:
Hi all -

I apologize for posting this on-topic query - I am a bit reluctant to
interrupt the random streams of political babbling that seem to
monopolize the rec.craft.metalworking group...

Anyhow, we recently acquired a rather nice Chicago 24" box and pan brake
and the acquisition has engendered a desire to do more with sheet metal.

We're (as always) limited on floor space and would like to add the
capacity to shear and maybe roll form sheet metal parts. The original
plan was to use the plasma cutter for 'shearing' but now we're thinking
about getting one of the '3-in-1' shear/brake/roller combinations - and
maybe re-selling the Chicago brake (that's a big maybe)

Comparing the 30" machines we find on the net, the Enco 30" claims 20
gauge capacity, the Grizzly 22 gauge, the Jet 20 gauge and the shudder
Harbor Freight says 20 gauge.

Is it possible that all of these come from the same production line in
India or China and going with the cheapest will give us exactly the same
machine with a different paint job, or is one superior to the others? Is
there another alternative in the same price range that we should be
looking at?

Also, to do boxes with neat corners we're thinking about getting a hand
notcher like the Enco or Jet... or maybe spending a little more for a
'nibbler' for our ironworker and giving us the capacity to notch much
heavier material for structural stuff in addition to the sheet metal
pieces. Any thoughts?

Also, this has now become time sensitive as Enco has a 20% off 'cyber
Monday' sale on the 26th (tomorrow) and if theirs is any better than the
HF one it would be worth pursuing...

Thanks in advance

Carla

Too bad that all the people who know how to run this country are busy
driving taxis and cutting hair. - George Burns

OH MY GOSH!!!!....AN ON TOPIC POST!!!!...WHAT WILL THE WORLD COME
TO?!?!?!?!?! ;)

When I was deciding what to have for sheet metal capabilities, I
examined the Chinese 3-in-1 offerings and was not impressed.

Every one of the 3-in-1s that I saw in person were of poor quality and
most had their cast iron table broken.

I went with Pexto and Diacro...very happy with the decision.

Good luck with the hunt....

TMT

On 2012-11-26, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:28:28 -0800
Carla Fong wrote:

snip
We evaluated our mechanical requirements and space available and figured
the 30" machine would be overkill ...

Baileigh Industrial seems to be the only company offering a machine
smaller than 30" - they have a little 12 incher for about $400 (they are
very proud of their iron - and their reputation) that will be a good
entry point for us - and we can always up-size later to a wider machine
if needed...
snip

A bit late I'm afraid...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-S...Machine/T21320

If nothing else, Grizzly usually has a nice manual and parts list you
can download.

It looks pretty nice for a small capacity machine, and well
documented.

But I find the warnings somewhat excessive, including the one on
the first inside page which warns about possible electrocution -- from a
manually powered tool. :-) (Second paragraph, PDF page 2.)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 26 Nov 2012 22:19:51 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2012-11-26, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:28:28 -0800
Carla Fong wrote:

snip
We evaluated our mechanical requirements and space available and figured
the 30" machine would be overkill ...

Baileigh Industrial seems to be the only company offering a machine
smaller than 30" - they have a little 12 incher for about $400 (they are
very proud of their iron - and their reputation) that will be a good
entry point for us - and we can always up-size later to a wider machine
if needed...
snip

A bit late I'm afraid...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-S...Machine/T21320

If nothing else, Grizzly usually has a nice manual and parts list you
can download.

It looks pretty nice for a small capacity machine, and well
documented.

But I find the warnings somewhat excessive, including the one on
the first inside page which warns about possible electrocution -- from a
manually powered tool. :-) (Second paragraph, PDF page 2.)

Enjoy,
DoN.

Maybe somebody stuck an extension cord in theirs.

Pete Keillor

On Nov 26, 2:18*pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Nov 25, 1:30*pm, Carla Fong wrote:









Hi all -

I apologize for posting this on-topic query - I am a bit reluctant to
interrupt the random streams of political babbling that seem to
monopolize the rec.craft.metalworking group...

Anyhow, we recently acquired a rather nice Chicago 24" box and pan brake
and the acquisition has engendered a desire to do more with sheet metal..

We're (as always) limited on floor space and would like to add the
capacity to shear and maybe roll form sheet metal parts. The original
plan was to use the plasma cutter for 'shearing' but now we're thinking
about getting one of the '3-in-1' shear/brake/roller combinations - and
maybe re-selling the Chicago brake (that's a big maybe)

Comparing the 30" machines we find on the net, the Enco 30" claims 20
gauge capacity, the Grizzly 22 gauge, the Jet 20 gauge and the shudder
Harbor Freight says 20 gauge.

Is it possible that all of these come from the same production line in
India or China and going with the cheapest will give us exactly the same
machine with a different paint job, or is one superior to the others? Is
there another alternative in the same price range that we should be
looking at?

Also, to do boxes with neat corners we're thinking about getting a hand
notcher like the Enco or Jet... or maybe spending a little more for a
'nibbler' for our ironworker and giving us the capacity to notch much
heavier material for structural stuff in addition to the sheet metal
pieces. Any thoughts?

Also, this has now become time sensitive as Enco has a 20% off 'cyber
Monday' sale on the 26th (tomorrow) and if theirs is any better than the
HF one it would be worth pursuing...

Thanks in advance

Carla

Too bad that all the people who know how to run this country are busy
driving taxis and cutting hair. - George Burns

OH MY GOSH!!!!....AN ON TOPIC POST!!!!...WHAT WILL THE WORLD COME
TO?!?!?!?!?! ;)

When I was deciding what to have for sheet metal capabilities, I
examined the Chinese 3-in-1 offerings and was not impressed.

Every one of the 3-in-1s that I saw in person were of poor quality and
most had their cast iron table broken.

I went with Pexto and Diacro...very happy with the decision.

Good luck with the hunt....

TMT

"I went with Pexto and Diacro...very happy with the decision."

Smart move.

Darn, missed that one completely and it's about $100 cheaper... and
someone recommended Grizzly earlier, too!

Oh well...

Carla

"A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his
work and his play; his labor and his leisure; his mind and his body; his
education and his recreation. He hardly knows which is which. He
simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing,
and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing. To
himself, he always appears to be doing both." ~ François-René de
Chateaubriand



On 11/26/2012 12:05 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:28:28 -0800
Carla Fong wrote:

snip
We evaluated our mechanical requirements and space available and figured
the 30" machine would be overkill ...

Baileigh Industrial seems to be the only company offering a machine
smaller than 30" - they have a little 12 incher for about $400 (they are
very proud of their iron - and their reputation) that will be a good
entry point for us - and we can always up-size later to a wider machine
if needed...
snip

A bit late I'm afraid...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-S...Machine/T21320

If nothing else, Grizzly usually has a nice manual and parts list you
can download.

On Nov 27, 8:04*am, Carla Fong wrote:
Darn, missed that one completely and it's about $100 cheaper... and
someone recommended Grizzly earlier, too!

Oh well...

Carla

"A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his
work and his play; his labor and his leisure; his mind and his body; his
education and his recreation. *He hardly knows which is which. *He
simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing,
and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing. *To
himself, he always appears to be doing both." ~ Fran ois-Ren de
Chateaubriand

On 11/26/2012 12:05 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:







On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:28:28 -0800
Carla Fong wrote:

snip
We evaluated our mechanical requirements and space available and figured
the 30" machine would be overkill ...

Baileigh Industrial seems to be the only company offering a machine
smaller than 30" - they have a little 12 incher for about $400 (they are
very proud of their iron - and their reputation) that will be a good
entry point for us - and we can always up-size later to a wider machine
if needed...
snip

A bit late I'm afraid...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-S...Machine/T21320

If nothing else, Grizzly usually has a nice manual and parts list you
can download.

What you missed what that going with a Chinese 3 in 1 machine is a
poor choice compared to buying quality used US equipment like quality
Pexto and Diacro

On Nov 27, 12:09*pm, jon_banquer wrote:
On Nov 27, 8:04*am, Carla Fong wrote:





Darn, missed that one completely and it's about $100 cheaper... and
someone recommended Grizzly earlier, too!

Oh well...

Carla

"A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his
work and his play; his labor and his leisure; his mind and his body; his
education and his recreation. *He hardly knows which is which. *He
simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing,
and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing. *To
himself, he always appears to be doing both." ~ Fran ois-Ren de
Chateaubriand

On 11/26/2012 12:05 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:28:28 -0800
Carla Fong wrote:

snip
We evaluated our mechanical requirements and space available and figured
the 30" machine would be overkill ...

Baileigh Industrial seems to be the only company offering a machine
smaller than 30" - they have a little 12 incher for about $400 (they are
very proud of their iron - and their reputation) that will be a good
entry point for us - and we can always up-size later to a wider machine
if needed...
snip

A bit late I'm afraid...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-S...Machine/T21320

If nothing else, Grizzly usually has a nice manual and parts list you
can download.

What you missed what that going with a Chinese 3 in 1 machine is a
poor choice compared to buying quality used US equipment like quality
Pexto and Diacro- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would have to agree.

In all seriousness, I would start watching for Diacro equipment...it
will take some time unless you want to pay the Ebay rates but it is
well worth the hunt.

TMT

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 13:12:46 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:


I would have to agree.

In all seriousness, I would start watching for Diacro equipment...it
will take some time unless you want to pay the Ebay rates but it is
well worth the hunt.

TMT

Yup, very good stuff. Heavy and built to last (and, AFAIK, no
multipurpose machines, so individual machines for each function).

While looking the Chinese 3-in-1 machines are functional, compact, and
can get the job done.

On Nov 27, 1:36*pm, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 13:12:46 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools

wrote:

I would have to agree.

In all seriousness, I would start watching for Diacro equipment...it
will take some time unless you want to pay the Ebay rates but it is
well worth the hunt.

TMT

Yup, very good stuff. Heavy and built to last (and, AFAIK, no
multipurpose machines, so individual machines for each function).

While looking the Chinese 3-in-1 machines are functional, compact, and
can get the job done.

They get the job done poorly. The only advantage they have is that
they save space.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 14:04:39 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer
wrote:

On Nov 27, 1:36*pm, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 13:12:46 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools

wrote:

I would have to agree.

In all seriousness, I would start watching for Diacro equipment...it
will take some time unless you want to pay the Ebay rates but it is
well worth the hunt.

TMT

Yup, very good stuff. Heavy and built to last (and, AFAIK, no
multipurpose machines, so individual machines for each function).

While looking the Chinese 3-in-1 machines are functional, compact, and
can get the job done.

They get the job done poorly. The only advantage they have is that
they save space.

For me, it works flawlessly. But I'm not cutting/bending thick steel
all day, only cheesy aluminum and PCB materials (which have fiberglass
which would dull a nice blade about as fast) once in a while to do
prototypes and such like. Anything more would be a poor use of capital
and floor space.

It's also an advantage to have something that is much cheaper and can
be lifted by one person. It's also an advantage to have a machine now,
not months from now, that costs less than the freight to move an
old-iron production machine.

I do have a nice Diacro #2 punch that I bought from one of the fellows
on RCM and it works very well, but it was not without hassles to shop
for it and get it set up and working smoothly.

This one: http://www.diacro.com/documents/curr.../No2-PUNCH.pdf

On Nov 27, 1:12*pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Nov 27, 12:09*pm, jon_banquer wrote:









On Nov 27, 8:04*am, Carla Fong wrote:

Darn, missed that one completely and it's about $100 cheaper... and
someone recommended Grizzly earlier, too!

Oh well...

Carla

"A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his
work and his play; his labor and his leisure; his mind and his body; his
education and his recreation. *He hardly knows which is which. *He
simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing,
and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing. *To
himself, he always appears to be doing both." ~ Fran ois-Ren de
Chateaubriand

On 11/26/2012 12:05 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:28:28 -0800
Carla Fong wrote:

snip
We evaluated our mechanical requirements and space available and figured
the 30" machine would be overkill ...

Baileigh Industrial seems to be the only company offering a machine
smaller than 30" - they have a little 12 incher for about $400 (they are
very proud of their iron - and their reputation) that will be a good
entry point for us - and we can always up-size later to a wider machine
if needed...
snip

A bit late I'm afraid...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-S...Machine/T21320

If nothing else, Grizzly usually has a nice manual and parts list you
can download.

What you missed what that going with a Chinese 3 in 1 machine is a
poor choice compared to buying quality used US equipment like quality
Pexto and Diacro- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would have to agree.

In all seriousness, I would start watching for Diacro equipment...it
will take some time unless you want to pay the Ebay rates but it is
well worth the hunt.

TMT

Quality US made machines always hold their value and if the market for
what they make is decent they are always in high demand used.

Chinese crap... not so much.