``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''

Ignoramus29252" wrote in message
...
``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''

You did block this person ?

Best Regards
Tom.
--
http://fija.org/

On 2012-09-05, azotic wrote:
Ignoramus29252" wrote in message
...
``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''

You did block this person ?

Best Regards
Tom.

I did not, why?

Maybe it is a good idea to do so.

i

"Ignoramus29252" wrote in message
...
On 2012-09-05, azotic wrote:
Ignoramus29252" wrote in message
...
``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three
Phase''

You did block this person ?

Best Regards
Tom.

I did not, why?

Maybe it is a good idea to do so.

i

Proper planning prevents potential problems.

I would not want a person that thinks they know what they
are talking about bidding on any of my auctions.

Best Regards
Tom.

"Ignoramus29252" wrote in message
...

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''

I guess it depends on your point of view. I'm not sure if you can get the
power company to connect you with 460 single phase. You can get 460 single
phase from 460 3 phase, if you have L1, L2, & L3, any 2 of the legs are
single phase. If you have something that runs 460 single phase, you could
get a transformer to go from 230 to 460. So there certainly is 460 single
phase, but I'm not sure if the power company provides 460 single phase.

My Miller 330A/BP welder runs off of 230 or 460 single phase. The plant
where I work has equipment that uses 460 single phase.

RogerN

On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:01:07 -0500, Ignoramus29252
wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''

Sure there is. Such equipment is rather rare...very are in the
US...but it is indeed out there

Gunner




"The U.S. military has had considerably more success in turning Iraq
around than liberals have had in turning the ghettos around with their
40-year 'War on Poverty.' So far, fewer troops have been killed by
hostile fire since the end of major combat in Iraq than civilians were
murdered in Washington, DC, last year (239 deaths in Iraq compared to
262 murders in DC.) Ann Coulter

On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:01:07 -0500, Ignoramus29252
wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''
Iggy-that statement is absolutely true. I know because I checked it
out. At 459 volts power only comes out of one wire. At 460 volts power
comes out of three wires. And then at 461 volts power only comes out
of one wire again. I looked at the wires and I could see the power
coming out of the wires. And you don't even need to look at all three
wires because single phase voltage is orange and three phase voltage
voltage is blue. Interestingly though is the fact that single phase
current is green and three phase current is yellow. I wonder why the
current isn't the same color as the voltage. Anyway, if you look at
the wires at the right angle you can see both colors at once. I forgot
to say that the colors only apply to AC voltage and current. DC
voltage and current are invisible. But that's OK because DC is so
noisy.
Airick

Three phase as it sais on the tin has three 460V Ac phases, you can use one phase at 230v to ground. Trying to put it simply the voltage is alternating and the voltage between a single phase and ground is a maximum of 230V (what you see in a domestic set up) but as the next phase still has alternating Voltage but at a different time to the first power line the voltage between the two will see a max of 460V. Max V phase to ground is 230v max voltage phase to phase is 460, this allows bigger machines to use smaller cables as for a given motor power the current will be much smaller at 460v than at 230v.

Does that make sense? if you have three phase machines and you don't have a three phase supply you can get converters.

On Tue, 4 Sep 2012 21:51:22 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:

"Ignoramus29252" wrote in message
...

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''

I guess it depends on your point of view. I'm not sure if you can get the
power company to connect you with 460 single phase. You can get 460 single
phase from 460 3 phase, if you have L1, L2, & L3, any 2 of the legs are
single phase. If you have something that runs 460 single phase, you could
get a transformer to go from 230 to 460. So there certainly is 460 single
phase, but I'm not sure if the power company provides 460 single phase.

My Miller 330A/BP welder runs off of 230 or 460 single phase. The plant
where I work has equipment that uses 460 single phase.

RogerN


Ayup. My Miller SyncroWave 300 is the same. 230/460 single phase

Gunner




"The U.S. military has had considerably more success in turning Iraq
around than liberals have had in turning the ghettos around with their
40-year 'War on Poverty.' So far, fewer troops have been killed by
hostile fire since the end of major combat in Iraq than civilians were
murdered in Washington, DC, last year (239 deaths in Iraq compared to
262 murders in DC.) Ann Coulter

wrote:
On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:01:07 -0500, Ignoramus29252
wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''
Iggy-that statement is absolutely true. I know because I checked it
out. At 459 volts power only comes out of one wire. At 460 volts power
comes out of three wires. And then at 461 volts power only comes out
of one wire again. I looked at the wires and I could see the power
coming out of the wires. And you don't even need to look at all three
wires because single phase voltage is orange and three phase voltage
voltage is blue. Interestingly though is the fact that single phase
current is green and three phase current is yellow. I wonder why the
current isn't the same color as the voltage. Anyway, if you look at
the wires at the right angle you can see both colors at once. I forgot
to say that the colors only apply to AC voltage and current. DC
voltage and current are invisible. But that's OK because DC is so
noisy.
Airick

I love it! Iggy should send it as a reply to the buyer: "Oh, you're
right, here's what I found: ...".

Bob

On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:01:07 -0500, Ignoramus29252
wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''

In my neck of the woods there is no such thing as 460 volts. PPL
Electric states the power they deliver is 120, 208, 240 or 480 volts
all +/- 5%

I think this was covered before, 460 like 110, 115 and 117 are all
carry-over's from years gone by.

Like Roger said I don't think you can get the power company to supply
you with 460 (480) single phase, it would be part of a 3 phase
service. Or does someone know this to be false? You can get single
phase equipment in 277 and 460/480 volt.

So it does depend on your point of view.

Remove 333 to reply.
Randy

On 2012-09-05, RogerN wrote:
"Ignoramus29252" wrote in message
...

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''

I guess it depends on your point of view. I'm not sure if you can get the
power company to connect you with 460 single phase. You can get 460 single
phase from 460 3 phase, if you have L1, L2, & L3, any 2 of the legs are
single phase. If you have something that runs 460 single phase, you could
get a transformer to go from 230 to 460. So there certainly is 460 single
phase, but I'm not sure if the power company provides 460 single phase.

My Miller 330A/BP welder runs off of 230 or 460 single phase. The plant
where I work has equipment that uses 460 single phase.

No one would want a 460v single phase power service, but there is
plenty of 460v single phase machines.

i

On 2012-09-05, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:01:07 -0500, Ignoramus29252
wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''
Iggy-that statement is absolutely true. I know because I checked it
out. At 459 volts power only comes out of one wire. At 460 volts power
comes out of three wires. And then at 461 volts power only comes out
of one wire again. I looked at the wires and I could see the power
coming out of the wires. And you don't even need to look at all three
wires because single phase voltage is orange and three phase voltage
voltage is blue. Interestingly though is the fact that single phase
current is green and three phase current is yellow. I wonder why the
current isn't the same color as the voltage. Anyway, if you look at
the wires at the right angle you can see both colors at once. I forgot
to say that the colors only apply to AC voltage and current. DC
voltage and current are invisible. But that's OK because DC is so
noisy.
Airick

I thought 460v was twice cheaper to use than 230v, because of twice
less current.

i

Randy333 wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:01:07 -0500, Ignoramus29252
wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''

In my neck of the woods there is no such thing as 460 volts. PPL
Electric states the power they deliver is 120, 208, 240 or 480 volts
all +/- 5%

I think this was covered before, 460 like 110, 115 and 117 are all
carry-over's from years gone by.

Like Roger said I don't think you can get the power company to supply
you with 460 (480) single phase, it would be part of a 3 phase
service. Or does someone know this to be false? You can get single
phase equipment in 277 and 460/480 volt.

So it does depend on your point of view.

Remove 333 to reply.
Randy

Not a matter of perspective, we're talking electrical requirements of a
device, not an electric service from a utility. While 460V (480V)
electric service from a utility may normally be provided in a three
phase service, numerous devices require 460V (480V) single phase power.
A person who does not understand that should not be bidding on 460V
(480V) devices.

Ignoramus5921 wrote:

On 2012-09-05, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:01:07 -0500, Ignoramus29252
wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''
Iggy-that statement is absolutely true. I know because I checked it
out. At 459 volts power only comes out of one wire. At 460 volts power
comes out of three wires. And then at 461 volts power only comes out
of one wire again. I looked at the wires and I could see the power
coming out of the wires. And you don't even need to look at all three
wires because single phase voltage is orange and three phase voltage
voltage is blue. Interestingly though is the fact that single phase
current is green and three phase current is yellow. I wonder why the
current isn't the same color as the voltage. Anyway, if you look at
the wires at the right angle you can see both colors at once. I forgot
to say that the colors only apply to AC voltage and current. DC
voltage and current are invisible. But that's OK because DC is so
noisy.
Airick

I thought 460v was twice cheaper to use than 230v, because of twice
less current.

i

Nah, twice the voltage = twice the expense. Some truth to that since
480V switchgear is more expensive...

On 9/5/2012 12:50 AM, Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Sep 2012 21:51:22 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:

"Ignoramus29252" wrote in message
...

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''

I guess it depends on your point of view. I'm not sure if you can get the
power company to connect you with 460 single phase. You can get 460 single
phase from 460 3 phase, if you have L1, L2, & L3, any 2 of the legs are
single phase. If you have something that runs 460 single phase, you could
get a transformer to go from 230 to 460. So there certainly is 460 single
phase, but I'm not sure if the power company provides 460 single phase.

My Miller 330A/BP welder runs off of 230 or 460 single phase. The plant
where I work has equipment that uses 460 single phase.

RogerN


Ayup. [bull****]

People who say "ayup" are backward cousin-****ing hillbillies. People
who write it are all that, plus willfully stupid.

Ignoramus5921 fired this volley in
news
I thought 460v was twice cheaper to use than 230v, because of twice
less current.

Ig, it makes the equipment smaller and lighter (if it's solely for 460V),
but watts are watts. Your power meter doesn't measure current (per se), it
totals watt-hours of energy. If current and voltage are in phase with one-
another, a given current at a particular voltage can be used to calculate
watts. Lightly loaded motors and other inductive loads tend to muddy that
by shifting the phases of voltage and current.

LLoyd

On 2012-09-05, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus5921 fired this volley in
news
I thought 460v was twice cheaper to use than 230v, because of twice
less current.

Ig, it makes the equipment smaller and lighter (if it's solely for 460V),
but watts are watts. Your power meter doesn't measure current (per se), it
totals watt-hours of energy. If current and voltage are in phase with one-
another, a given current at a particular voltage can be used to calculate
watts. Lightly loaded motors and other inductive loads tend to muddy that
by shifting the phases of voltage and current.

LLoyd

I was joking...

On 9/5/2012 8:42 AM, Ignoramus5921 wrote:
On 2012-09-05, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:01:07 -0500, Ignoramus29252
wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''
Iggy-that statement is absolutely true. I know because I checked it
out. At 459 volts power only comes out of one wire. At 460 volts power
comes out of three wires. ...

I thought 460v was twice cheaper to use than 230v, because of twice
less current.

no, No, NO!!!

It's 4X as cheap 'cuz power is i-squared-r... gdr

--

On 2012-09-05, dpb wrote:
On 9/5/2012 8:42 AM, Ignoramus5921 wrote:
On 2012-09-05, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:01:07 -0500, Ignoramus29252
wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''
Iggy-that statement is absolutely true. I know because I checked it
out. At 459 volts power only comes out of one wire. At 460 volts power
comes out of three wires. ...

I thought 460v was twice cheaper to use than 230v, because of twice
less current.

no, No, NO!!!

It's 4X as cheap 'cuz power is i-squared-r... gdr


and three ohase is cheaper still because the current is less by 1/sqrt(3)

Ignoramus29252 wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''
While single-phase 460 V feeds are a bit rare, many welders definitely
are wired for 460 and only use one phase. I can imagine big industrial
ovens might also run off single-phase, as well as spot welders.

Jon

On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 15:25:34 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

Ignoramus29252 wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''
While single-phase 460 V feeds are a bit rare, many welders definitely
are wired for 460 and only use one phase. I can imagine big industrial
ovens might also run off single-phase, as well as spot welders.

Jon
Big ovens I used or had that needed more than 208V were usually three
phase. Easy enough to do because they usually had multiples of three
elements. It needed appropriate care if replacing an element, but our
electrical folks were used to three phase and its hazards.

On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 9:42:49 AM UTC-4, Ignoramus5921 wrote:
On 2012-09-05, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:01:07 -0500, Ignoramus29252

wrote:



``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''

Iggy-that statement is absolutely true. I know because I checked it

out. At 459 volts power only comes out of one wire. At 460 volts power

comes out of three wires. And then at 461 volts power only comes out

of one wire again. I looked at the wires and I could see the power

coming out of the wires. And you don't even need to look at all three

wires because single phase voltage is orange and three phase voltage

voltage is blue. Interestingly though is the fact that single phase

current is green and three phase current is yellow. I wonder why the

current isn't the same color as the voltage. Anyway, if you look at

the wires at the right angle you can see both colors at once. I forgot

to say that the colors only apply to AC voltage and current. DC

voltage and current are invisible. But that's OK because DC is so

noisy.

Airick



The reason the voltage and current are different colors is so you can determine power factor by how they mix. I though everyone knew that.


I thought 460v was twice cheaper to use than 230v, because of twice
less current.
i

Well, yeah but the truth is that the I2R losses *will* be cut by a factor of four. My 'lectric company recently went to huge expense in replacing all of the tranformers and many of the poles in my neighborhood so they could raise the primary voltage from 8KV to 13KV. It will, in the not-very-long run, pay for itself in reduced heating of the primary wires.

By the way, this was a pretty impressive show. The had a HUGE transformer on a flatbed in a nearby parking lot, switchable from 8KV to 13KV. All of the new transformers were also switchable. After they had this all installed and running at 8KV (with no interruption of service, by the way), they called in what must have been damned near every truck they had in the state. There were ten on my block alone. At the appointed hour, the power was shut off and they switched all the transformers. It all took about ten minutes before the lights came back on.

Excellent planning on PSE&G's part.

On Sep 5, 9:09*am, Ann Romanoski Wright
wrote:
On 9/5/2012 12:50 AM, Gunner wrote:









On Tue, 4 Sep 2012 21:51:22 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:

"Ignoramus29252" *wrote in message
...

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''

I guess it depends on your point of view. *I'm not sure if you can get the
power company to connect you with 460 single phase. *You can get 460 single
phase from 460 3 phase, if you have L1, L2, & L3, any 2 of the legs are
single phase. *If you have something that runs 460 single phase, you could
get a transformer to go from 230 to 460. *So there certainly is 460 single
phase, but I'm not sure if the power company provides 460 single phase..

My Miller 330A/BP welder runs off of 230 or 460 single phase. *The plant
where I work has equipment that uses 460 single phase.

RogerN

Ayup. [bull****]

People who say "ayup" are backward cousin-****ing hillbillies. *People
who write it are all that, plus willfully stupid.

Please avoid reading works of Mark Twain. In your case, severe
apoplexy could result.

On 9/5/2012 2:48 PM, RogerN wrote:
"Ann Romanoski Wright" wrote in message
...

On 9/5/2012 12:50 AM, Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Sep 2012 21:51:22 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:
snip
My Miller 330A/BP welder runs off of 230 or 460 single phase. The plant
where I work has equipment that uses 460 single phase.

RogerN


Ayup. [bull****]

People who say "ayup" are backward cousin-****ing hillbillies. People who
write it are all that, plus willfully stupid.


And people that judge people because they say or write "Ayup" are shallow.

You're wrong.

It's an affectation, particularly when done by a ****wit who grew up in
Michigan where no one said it, and when said ****wit writes it in Usenet
posts.


Usually these kinds of people think they are more intelligent because they
don't say or write "Ayup".

People who do say it are stupid hicks. People who write it are
pretentious do-nothing dole scroungers.

On 9/5/2012 3:06 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 9:42:49 AM UTC-4, Ignoramus5921 wrote:
On 2012-09-05, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:01:07 -0500, Ignoramus29252

wrote:



``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''

Iggy-that statement is absolutely true. I know because I checked it

out. At 459 volts power only comes out of one wire. At 460 volts power

comes out of three wires. And then at 461 volts power only comes out

of one wire again. I looked at the wires and I could see the power

coming out of the wires. And you don't even need to look at all three

wires because single phase voltage is orange and three phase voltage

voltage is blue. Interestingly though is the fact that single phase

current is green and three phase current is yellow. I wonder why the

current isn't the same color as the voltage. Anyway, if you look at

the wires at the right angle you can see both colors at once. I forgot

to say that the colors only apply to AC voltage and current. DC

voltage and current are invisible. But that's OK because DC is so

noisy.

Airick



The reason the voltage and current are different colors is so you can determine power factor by how they mix. I though everyone knew that.


I thought 460v was twice cheaper to use than 230v, because of twice
less current.
i

Well, yeah but the truth is that the I2R losses *will* be cut by a factor of four. My 'lectric company recently went to huge expense in replacing all of the tranformers and many of the poles in my neighborhood so they could raise the primary voltage from 8KV to 13KV. It will, in the not-very-long run, pay for itself in reduced heating of the primary wires.

By the way, this was a pretty impressive show. The had a HUGE transformer on a flatbed in a nearby parking lot, switchable from 8KV to 13KV. All of the new transformers were also switchable. After they had this all installed and running at 8KV (with no interruption of service, by the way), they called in what must have been damned near every truck they had in the state. There were ten on my block alone. At the appointed hour, the power was shut off and they switched all the transformers. It all took about ten minutes before the lights came back on.

Excellent planning on PSE&G's part.

A private utility, of course. Private enterprise gets things done.

wrote:
On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:01:07 -0500, Ignoramus29252
wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''
Iggy-that statement is absolutely true. I know because I checked it
out. At 459 volts power only comes out of one wire. At 460 volts power
comes out of three wires. And then at 461 volts power only comes out
of one wire again. I looked at the wires and I could see the power
coming out of the wires. And you don't even need to look at all three
wires because single phase voltage is orange and three phase voltage
voltage is blue. Interestingly though is the fact that single phase
current is green and three phase current is yellow. I wonder why the
current isn't the same color as the voltage. Anyway, if you look at
the wires at the right angle you can see both colors at once. I forgot
to say that the colors only apply to AC voltage and current. DC
voltage and current are invisible. But that's OK because DC is so
noisy.
Airick
But whatever you do, watch out that the smoke does not escape.

On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 16:20:40 -0500, Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 15:25:34 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

Ignoramus29252 wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''
While single-phase 460 V feeds are a bit rare, many welders definitely
are wired for 460 and only use one phase. I can imagine big industrial
ovens might also run off single-phase, as well as spot welders.

Jon
Big ovens I used or had that needed more than 208V were usually three
phase. Easy enough to do because they usually had multiples of three
elements. It needed appropriate care if replacing an element, but our
electrical folks were used to three phase and its hazards.

That's my experience. Even smaller plastics machines usually have
3-phase sets of heaters (most of the power consumption is the heaters
and the motor). The controls stuff could run off a single phase,
though I've seen a 3phase transformer to supply 24V for the controls
on a Battenfeld.

On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 11:51:58 PM UTC-4, George Plimpton wrote:
On 9/5/2012 3:06 PM, rangerssuck wrote:

On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 9:42:49 AM UTC-4, Ignoramus5921 wrote:

On 2012-09-05, wrote:



On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:01:07 -0500, Ignoramus29252



wrote:







``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''



Iggy-that statement is absolutely true. I know because I checked it



out. At 459 volts power only comes out of one wire. At 460 volts power



comes out of three wires. And then at 461 volts power only comes out



of one wire again. I looked at the wires and I could see the power



coming out of the wires. And you don't even need to look at all three



wires because single phase voltage is orange and three phase voltage



voltage is blue. Interestingly though is the fact that single phase



current is green and three phase current is yellow. I wonder why the



current isn't the same color as the voltage. Anyway, if you look at



the wires at the right angle you can see both colors at once. I forgot



to say that the colors only apply to AC voltage and current. DC



voltage and current are invisible. But that's OK because DC is so



noisy.



Airick







The reason the voltage and current are different colors is so you can determine power factor by how they mix. I though everyone knew that.





I thought 460v was twice cheaper to use than 230v, because of twice

less current.

i



Well, yeah but the truth is that the I2R losses *will* be cut by a factor of four. My 'lectric company recently went to huge expense in replacing all of the tranformers and many of the poles in my neighborhood so they could raise the primary voltage from 8KV to 13KV. It will, in the not-very-long run, pay for itself in reduced heating of the primary wires.



By the way, this was a pretty impressive show. The had a HUGE transformer on a flatbed in a nearby parking lot, switchable from 8KV to 13KV. All of the new transformers were also switchable. After they had this all installed and running at 8KV (with no interruption of service, by the way), they called in what must have been damned near every truck they had in the state.. There were ten on my block alone. At the appointed hour, the power was shut off and they switched all the transformers. It all took about ten minutes before the lights came back on.



Excellent planning on PSE&G's part.



A private utility, of course. Private enterprise gets things done.

Somehow, you've taken this story and turned it into anti-government bull****. Would it make any difference to you if I told you that, for the twenty or so years preceding this project, my line voltage hovered around 109V, with frequent dips below 100V? It was the threat of a class-action suit from a neighboring block association, combined with charts from my APC line monitor that finally got them to move.

So yeah, private enterprise got things done, but not without the threat from the public of a suit in a government court.


My point about the excellent planning was that they made this switchover with only a ten or so minute interruption in service.

On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 08:42:48 -0500, Ignoramus5921
wrote:

On 2012-09-05, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:01:07 -0500, Ignoramus29252
wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''
Iggy-that statement is absolutely true. I know because I checked it
out. At 459 volts power only comes out of one wire. At 460 volts power
comes out of three wires. And then at 461 volts power only comes out
of one wire again. I looked at the wires and I could see the power
coming out of the wires. And you don't even need to look at all three
wires because single phase voltage is orange and three phase voltage
voltage is blue. Interestingly though is the fact that single phase
current is green and three phase current is yellow. I wonder why the
current isn't the same color as the voltage. Anyway, if you look at
the wires at the right angle you can see both colors at once. I forgot
to say that the colors only apply to AC voltage and current. DC
voltage and current are invisible. But that's OK because DC is so
noisy.
Airick

I thought 460v was twice cheaper to use than 230v, because of twice
less current.

i
It should be 4 times cheaper because resistive losses increase and
decrease with the square of the voltage. We're getting ripped off.
Eric

Ignoramus29252 wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''

Iffin you use all three conductors.
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 19:01:50 -0400, Wes
wrote:

Ignoramus29252 wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three Phase''

Iffin you use all three conductors.

They only sell it to you from the Utility as 460V (now nominal 480V)
3-Phase 3-wire, or 277/480V 3-phase 4-wire - and if you can get it in
as 277/480V 3-Ph 4-wire Wye it's worth the extra expense.

(They sell lots of different 277V Shop Lights that will run straight
from the service Hot to Neutral, 480V is only available in a few
High-Bay styles. For 120V lights and outlets you need a transformer,
or a separate lighting service.)

But iffin' you only use two of the hot lines instead of all three
lines, you've got 480 Volts Single Phase there, just like you want.

But don't try to cheat and use a 480V Single Phase receptacle - they
don't exist - or if someone does make them (probably in a Pin and
Sleeve Device) they'll be REAL expensive because they won't sell
many.

Just use a plain old 480V 3Ph twist lock receptacle and only use
3-conductor cord. Hot, Hot, and Ground.

If you have several of these devices, balance the loads - First one is
connected to the A & B phases, second is on B & C, third on C & A.
Repeat as needed to keep the Power Utility from getting annoyed at you
for unbalancing their system.

Oh, and make sure the portable cord you use is rated for 600V, a
decent percentage of the cheap stuff at the hardware store is only
rated at 300V. In a few years when the cord insulation starts
breaking down from age, that can cause you some serious excitement.

-- Bruce --

"Bruce L. Bergman wrote
On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 19:01:50 -0400, Wes
wrote:

Ignoramus29252 wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three
Phase''

Iffin you use all three conductors.

They only sell it to you from the Utility as 460V (now nominal 480V)
3-Phase 3-wire, or 277/480V 3-phase 4-wire - and if you can get it
in
as 277/480V 3-Ph 4-wire Wye it's worth the extra expense.

(They sell lots of different 277V Shop Lights that will run straight
from the service Hot to Neutral, 480V is only available in a few
High-Bay styles. For 120V lights and outlets you need a transformer,
or a separate lighting service.)

But iffin' you only use two of the hot lines instead of all three
lines, you've got 480 Volts Single Phase there, just like you want.

But don't try to cheat and use a 480V Single Phase receptacle - they
don't exist - or if someone does make them (probably in a Pin and
Sleeve Device) they'll be REAL expensive because they won't sell
many.

Just use a plain old 480V 3Ph twist lock receptacle and only use
3-conductor cord. Hot, Hot, and Ground.

If you have several of these devices, balance the loads - First one
is
connected to the A & B phases, second is on B & C, third on C & A.
Repeat as needed to keep the Power Utility from getting annoyed at
you
for unbalancing their system.

Oh, and make sure the portable cord you use is rated for 600V, a
decent percentage of the cheap stuff at the hardware store is only
rated at 300V. In a few years when the cord insulation starts
breaking down from age, that can cause you some serious excitement.


per wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#NEMA_L8
NEMA L8 connectors are used with circuits with a maximum specified
voltage of 480 V AC. Supply connections are intended for two-pole,
three-wire hot-hot-ground circuits with a nominal supply voltage of
460 V.

I could not find them on McMaster or Grangers, but did find
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Power_Products_(Electrical)/Wiring_Devices/Electrical_Plugs,_Connectors,_-a-_Receptacles/Locking_Plugs,_Connectors,_-a-_Receptacles/70820FR;jsessionid=5e304e92319b048c22ca2a5356412a3 c2f44?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product-search&gclid=CIutmoePrLICFUhN4AodAVkALQ
at 12.50 I would not call it terribly expensive.

Balancing is indeed important. Using the correct outlets saves breaker
space and I think is the best way to assure balancing.


--
Stephen B.

On 2012-09-10, Stephen B. SPAMmyspam@cloud9 wrote:
"Bruce L. Bergman wrote
On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 19:01:50 -0400, Wes
wrote:

Ignoramus29252 wrote:

``There is no such voltage as 460 Single Phase. 460 volts is Three
Phase''

Iffin you use all three conductors.

They only sell it to you from the Utility as 460V (now nominal 480V)
3-Phase 3-wire, or 277/480V 3-phase 4-wire - and if you can get it
in
as 277/480V 3-Ph 4-wire Wye it's worth the extra expense.

(They sell lots of different 277V Shop Lights that will run straight
from the service Hot to Neutral, 480V is only available in a few
High-Bay styles. For 120V lights and outlets you need a transformer,
or a separate lighting service.)

But iffin' you only use two of the hot lines instead of all three
lines, you've got 480 Volts Single Phase there, just like you want.

But don't try to cheat and use a 480V Single Phase receptacle - they
don't exist - or if someone does make them (probably in a Pin and
Sleeve Device) they'll be REAL expensive because they won't sell
many.

Just use a plain old 480V 3Ph twist lock receptacle and only use
3-conductor cord. Hot, Hot, and Ground.

If you have several of these devices, balance the loads - First one
is
connected to the A & B phases, second is on B & C, third on C & A.
Repeat as needed to keep the Power Utility from getting annoyed at
you
for unbalancing their system.

Oh, and make sure the portable cord you use is rated for 600V, a
decent percentage of the cheap stuff at the hardware store is only
rated at 300V. In a few years when the cord insulation starts
breaking down from age, that can cause you some serious excitement.


per wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#NEMA_L8
NEMA L8 connectors are used with circuits with a maximum specified
voltage of 480 V AC. Supply connections are intended for two-pole,
three-wire hot-hot-ground circuits with a nominal supply voltage of
460 V.

I could not find them on McMaster or Grangers, but did find
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Power_Products_(Electrical)/Wiring_Devices/Electrical_Plugs,_Connectors,_-a-_Receptacles/Locking_Plugs,_Connectors,_-a-_Receptacles/70820FR;jsessionid=5e304e92319b048c22ca2a5356412a3 c2f44?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product-search&gclid=CIutmoePrLICFUhN4AodAVkALQ
at 12.50 I would not call it terribly expensive.

Balancing is indeed important. Using the correct outlets saves breaker
space and I think is the best way to assure balancing.



I have seen a lot of 460v, two pole plugs.

i