I'm looking for help with two (possibly three) relatively small metal
parts for my current R&D project, and decided to "stick my toe in the
water" on r.c.m to see if anyone would be interested in tackling any or
all of them.

The project is a roughly shoebox-size low energy nuclear reactor (LENR),
and there is a conceptual description at

http://www.iedu.com/Solar/LENR/

The first part needed is a stainless steel containment vessel, the
second is a manifold block incorporating a gas passage and provision for
four solenoid valves and a pressure sensor, and the third is a
mechanical linkage between a motor and the handle on a standard bottled
gas pressure regulator.

The containment vessel and the manifold need to be able to withstand
pressure to 3450kPa/500psi and temperature to 500ËšC/932ËšF.

I will need letters relinquishing intellectual property rights to design
and drawings. The intent is to ensure that the final result of the
project can be made freely available without encumbrance.

I am, of course, willing to pay (not a lot, because I don't have a lot),
but would prefer to do this:

If there's a person (or two people) willing to help complete the
specifications (with good CAD drawings) and provide ten copies of all
three parts, then I'm willing to provide each with a complete set of
these parts plus a pre-programmed Arduino microcontroller and a how-to
for completing, testing, and operating the tiny nuclear reactor.

--
Morris Dovey
http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
http://www.facebook.com/MorrisDovey

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for help with two (possibly three) relatively small
metal parts for my current R&D project, and decided to "stick my toe
in the water" on r.c.m to see if anyone would be interested in
tackling any or all of them....
--
Morris Dovey

I haven't offered to make your reactor because I'm unsure of the
liability consequences if a part I made or one attached to it should
fail and cause injury. The experimental apparatus I've built was as an
employee under an engineer's supervision and responsibility.

I'm not trying to hinder you, someone must have the answers.

jsw

On 7/26/12 12:31 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for help with two (possibly three) relatively small
metal parts for my current R&D project, and decided to "stick my toe
in the water" on r.c.m to see if anyone would be interested in
tackling any or all of them....
--
Morris Dovey

I haven't offered to make your reactor because I'm unsure of the
liability consequences if a part I made or one attached to it should
fail and cause injury. The experimental apparatus I've built was as an
employee under an engineer's supervision and responsibility.

I'm not trying to hinder you, someone must have the answers.

Jim...

The answer is mine (and only mine) to give: I'll provide a written,
notarized waiver of liability to parts producers.

If you have a sample that you can share, I'd appreciate a copy either
here or via e-mail.

--
Morris Dovey
http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
http://www.facebook.com/MorrisDovey

On 7/26/12 12:50 PM, Pete C. wrote:

The Soviet Union powered remote nav/com stations using radio-thermic
generators that had no moving parts and required no maintenance or
sophisticated control systems. The only issue I've heard of with those
units is when idiot scrappers tried to dismantle them and dropped dead
shortly thereafter.

There's some good technology out there - and my understanding is that
much of the really elegant work has been done by the Russians and the
Japanese, although much of it has been directed toward gas plasma,
rather than fluid systems.

It was an almost offhand comment about some Russian work in the appendix
of an old copy of "Steam Tables" that got me to thinking about using
supercritical water in an MHD generator.

One of the really nice attributes of the Ni/H LENR is that none of the
elements are dangerous, other than that the hydrogen is flammable.

--
Morris Dovey
http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
http://www.facebook.com/MorrisDovey

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
...
...I'll provide a written, notarized waiver of liability to parts
producers.

If you have a sample that you can share, I'd appreciate a copy
either here or via e-mail.
Morris Dovey

I don't as I was always under a corporate umbrella. THEY were sued,
but I weaseled out of it.

Another issue is obtaining the raw material in small quantities. Here
is are some central New England sources:
http://brassandtool.com/Metals.html#303Stainless
http://www.alliantmetals.com/


http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant...ep=2&top_cat=1
It's very helpful if the maximum diameter stays within their readily
available sizes.

jsw

On 7/26/12 1:28 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
...
...I'll provide a written, notarized waiver of liability to parts
producers.

If you have a sample that you can share, I'd appreciate a copy
either here or via e-mail.
Morris Dovey

I don't as I was always under a corporate umbrella. THEY were sued,
but I weaseled out of it.

No worry - I can provide.

Another issue is obtaining the raw material in small quantities. Here
is are some central New England sources:
http://brassandtool.com/Metals.html#303Stainless
http://www.alliantmetals.com/


http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant...ep=2&top_cat=1
It's very helpful if the maximum diameter stays within their readily
available sizes.

Thank you for those. I've been looking at

http://www.onlinemetals.com/

for stainless steel tubing.

The good news is that although the data acquisition stuff may be on the
spendy side, the actual reactor and its fuel are fairly inexpensive. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
http://www.facebook.com/MorrisDovey

But... but.... what would you do with a 547 million dollar lottery winning?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"anorton" wrote in message
m...

There is a well known psychological phenomenon
where the promise of great rewards
will turn off one's usual skeptical and cautious instincts.

On 7/26/2012 3:25 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
But... but.... what would you do with a 547 million dollar lottery winning?

Buy everybody in town a Coke!


wrote in message
m...

There is a well known psychological phenomenon
where the promise of great rewards
will turn off one's usual skeptical and cautious instincts.

I'm glad you bought a couple extra tickets. Odds of winning are 1 in
54,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Richard" wrote in message
m...
On 7/26/2012 3:25 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
But... but.... what would you do with a 547 million dollar lottery
winning?

Buy everybody in town a Coke!


wrote in message
m...

There is a well known psychological phenomenon
where the promise of great rewards
will turn off one's usual skeptical and cautious instincts.

"Richard" wrote in message
m...
On 7/26/2012 3:25 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
But... but.... what would you do with a 547 million dollar lottery
winning?

Buy everybody in town a Coke!

Buy myself a Coke:
http://quotes.wsj.com/KO

On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 13:06:15 -0500, Morris Dovey wrote:

On 7/26/12 12:31 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for help with two (possibly three) relatively small metal
parts for my current R&D project, and decided to "stick my toe in the
water" on r.c.m to see if anyone would be interested in tackling any
or all of them....
--
Morris Dovey

I haven't offered to make your reactor because I'm unsure of the
liability consequences if a part I made or one attached to it should
fail and cause injury. The experimental apparatus I've built was as an
employee under an engineer's supervision and responsibility.

I'm not trying to hinder you, someone must have the answers.

Jim...

The answer is mine (and only mine) to give: I'll provide a written,
notarized waiver of liability to parts producers.

If you have a sample that you can share, I'd appreciate a copy either
here or via e-mail.

That'll cover Jim if only you get injured, and if you don't get killed or
injured badly enough that you can't tell your relatives not to sue. It
doesn't help if you blow the wall out of your garage and through your
vindicative neighbor's Audi -- if they sue, they'll reach right around
you and sue Jim, too.

It helps a lot if the guy doing the work has the status of "a friend
helping out" rather than "a pro shop doing something they know they
shouldn't". Personal injury lawyers don't want to sue someone who (a)
can't be squeezed for much money, and (b) can tell a good sob story to
the press.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 10:40:19 -0500, Morris Dovey wrote:

I'm looking for help with two (possibly three) relatively small metal
parts for my current R&D project, and decided to "stick my toe in the
water" on r.c.m to see if anyone would be interested in tackling any or
all of them.

The project is a roughly shoebox-size low energy nuclear reactor (LENR),
and there is a conceptual description at

http://www.iedu.com/Solar/LENR/

The first part needed is a stainless steel containment vessel, the
second is a manifold block incorporating a gas passage and provision for
four solenoid valves and a pressure sensor, and the third is a
mechanical linkage between a motor and the handle on a standard bottled
gas pressure regulator.

The containment vessel and the manifold need to be able to withstand
pressure to 3450kPa/500psi and temperature to 500ËšC/932ËšF.

I will need letters relinquishing intellectual property rights to design
and drawings. The intent is to ensure that the final result of the
project can be made freely available without encumbrance.

I am, of course, willing to pay (not a lot, because I don't have a lot),
but would prefer to do this:

If there's a person (or two people) willing to help complete the
specifications (with good CAD drawings) and provide ten copies of all
three parts, then I'm willing to provide each with a complete set of
these parts plus a pre-programmed Arduino microcontroller and a how-to
for completing, testing, and operating the tiny nuclear reactor.

What, oh what, are the public workshops called that are springing up in
major cities?

I'm drawing an absolute blank. This is way frustrating.

But there's a movement afoot in the US to provide workshop space for
inventors like you, and more mundane maker sorts, too. If you can think
of the right keywords, you may even find something local. Nearly all of
them have lots of tools; some of them have folks on staff to help you do
stuff, I would imagine that many have folks hanging around who'd be
enthusiastic, too.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 20:04:59 -0500, the renowned Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 10:40:19 -0500, Morris Dovey wrote:

I'm looking for help with two (possibly three) relatively small metal
parts for my current R&D project, and decided to "stick my toe in the
water" on r.c.m to see if anyone would be interested in tackling any or
all of them.

The project is a roughly shoebox-size low energy nuclear reactor (LENR),
and there is a conceptual description at

http://www.iedu.com/Solar/LENR/

The first part needed is a stainless steel containment vessel, the
second is a manifold block incorporating a gas passage and provision for
four solenoid valves and a pressure sensor, and the third is a
mechanical linkage between a motor and the handle on a standard bottled
gas pressure regulator.

The containment vessel and the manifold need to be able to withstand
pressure to 3450kPa/500psi and temperature to 500?C/932?F.

I will need letters relinquishing intellectual property rights to design
and drawings. The intent is to ensure that the final result of the
project can be made freely available without encumbrance.

I am, of course, willing to pay (not a lot, because I don't have a lot),
but would prefer to do this:

If there's a person (or two people) willing to help complete the
specifications (with good CAD drawings) and provide ten copies of all
three parts, then I'm willing to provide each with a complete set of
these parts plus a pre-programmed Arduino microcontroller and a how-to
for completing, testing, and operating the tiny nuclear reactor.

What, oh what, are the public workshops called that are springing up in
major cities?

I'm drawing an absolute blank. This is way frustrating.

Hackerspaces! The ones I've seen are not exactly public, but close
enuf.

But there's a movement afoot in the US to provide workshop space for
inventors like you, and more mundane maker sorts, too. If you can think
of the right keywords, you may even find something local. Nearly all of
them have lots of tools; some of them have folks on staff to help you do
stuff, I would imagine that many have folks hanging around who'd be
enthusiastic, too.

And young talented folks whose first worry is not about liability.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 10:40:19 -0500, Morris Dovey wrote:

...
What, oh what, are the public workshops called that are springing up
in
major cities?

I'm drawing an absolute blank. This is way frustrating.

But there's a movement afoot in the US to provide workshop space for
inventors like you, and more mundane maker sorts, too. If you can
think
of the right keywords, you may even find something local. Nearly
all of
them have lots of tools; some of them have folks on staff to help
you do
stuff, I would imagine that many have folks hanging around who'd be
enthusiastic, too.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tjmccue/...aker-movement/

A while ago I suggested a few ways to make high pressure gas seals
between the reactor sections and then realized I would have a lot of
trouble machining them from stainless on my small antique machine
tools, which are barely adequate for carbide inserts. I can't reliably
seal hydraulic oil at room temperature.

jsw

On 7/26/12 7:58 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 13:06:15 -0500, Morris Dovey wrote:

On 7/26/12 12:31 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for help with two (possibly three) relatively small metal
parts for my current R&D project, and decided to "stick my toe in the
water" on r.c.m to see if anyone would be interested in tackling any
or all of them....
--
Morris Dovey

I haven't offered to make your reactor because I'm unsure of the
liability consequences if a part I made or one attached to it should
fail and cause injury. The experimental apparatus I've built was as an
employee under an engineer's supervision and responsibility.

I'm not trying to hinder you, someone must have the answers.

Jim...

The answer is mine (and only mine) to give: I'll provide a written,
notarized waiver of liability to parts producers.

If you have a sample that you can share, I'd appreciate a copy either
here or via e-mail.

That'll cover Jim if only you get injured, and if you don't get killed or
injured badly enough that you can't tell your relatives not to sue. It
doesn't help if you blow the wall out of your garage and through your
vindicative neighbor's Audi -- if they sue, they'll reach right around
you and sue Jim, too.

It helps a lot if the guy doing the work has the status of "a friend
helping out" rather than "a pro shop doing something they know they
shouldn't". Personal injury lawyers don't want to sue someone who (a)
can't be squeezed for much money, and (b) can tell a good sob story to
the press.

Well, I'm sorta looking for someone that fits the category of "a friend
helping out". If I'd wanted to go to a pro shop, I'd have done that -
and I may still need to do that, but I think there's more talent, skill,
and experience available here than in any of the machine shops I can
afford to deal with in my immediate area.

[ Side note: In the past I did a fair amount of lurking and have gotten
some absolutely first class advice from folks on r.c.m back when I was
building a specialized CNC router for joinery. It was the quality of the
advice and the accompanying explanations that brought me back today. ]

My shop is in a non-residential area, and my shop landlord and my shop
neighbors have been fairly enthusiastic about this project - to the
extent of donating materials they thought might be useful.

Over the past year I've built every imaginable precaution into the
control software to make it as twitchy/paranoid as possible - and its
top priority activity is to achieve a 'cold' shutdown within a quarter
second on /any/ deviation from expected behavior. I figure that it'll be
easier to suffer false shutdowns, adjust parameters, and restart than
have to deal with even minor consequences of failing to do so.

Still, I don't know how to guarantee /perfect/ safety for anyone - so
anyone who feels a need for that probably should not be involved.

--
Morris Dovey
http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
http://www.facebook.com/MorrisDovey

On 7/26/12 9:41 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

A while ago I suggested a few ways to make high pressure gas seals
between the reactor sections and then realized I would have a lot of
trouble machining them from stainless on my small antique machine
tools, which are barely adequate for carbide inserts. I can't reliably
seal hydraulic oil at room temperature.

Jim...

I reached the same conclusion - and decided that the best approach would
probably be to weld/braze all connections except that to the hydrogen
tank regulator, and I added an additional normally-closed "master"
solenoid valve (and incorporated some additional software) to protect
the regulator from excessive back pressures and high temperatures.

It was the sealing problem that forced me to monitor temperature (with a
thermocouple, as you suggested) at the outer surface of the containment
vessel. I'd have preferred an internal measurement, but this does look
safest.

--
Morris Dovey
http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
http://www.facebook.com/MorrisDovey

On 7/26/12 8:36 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 20:04:59 -0500, the renowned Tim Wescott
wrote:

What, oh what, are the public workshops called that are springing up in
major cities?

I'm drawing an absolute blank. This is way frustrating.

Hackerspaces! The ones I've seen are not exactly public, but close
enuf.

But there's a movement afoot in the US to provide workshop space for
inventors like you, and more mundane maker sorts, too. If you can think
of the right keywords, you may even find something local. Nearly all of
them have lots of tools; some of them have folks on staff to help you do
stuff, I would imagine that many have folks hanging around who'd be
enthusiastic, too.

And young talented folks whose first worry is not about liability.

There's a group here in Des Moines trying to organize a hackerspace, but
the organizers' primary interest appears to be software. Funding and
space appear to be the major obstacles, as you might expect.

--
Morris Dovey
http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
http://www.facebook.com/MorrisDovey

On 7/26/12 3:25 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
But... but.... what would you do with a 547 million dollar lottery winning?

I'd hire the talent to polish off both projects within six months. But
in order for that to happen I suppose I'd have to buy a lottery ticket.

Not going to happen. :-/

--
Morris Dovey
http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
http://www.facebook.com/MorrisDovey

On 7/26/2012 18:40, Morris Dovey wrote:
The first part needed is a stainless steel containment vessel, the
second is a manifold block incorporating a gas passage and provision for
four solenoid valves and a pressure sensor, and the third is a
mechanical linkage between a motor and the handle on a standard bottled
gas pressure regulator.

The containment vessel and the manifold need to be able to withstand
pressure to 3450kPa/500psi and temperature to 500ËšC/932ËšF.

It is a pressure vessel so in US you need to make it
according to ASME code (unless exempt by size or such)?
That includes design, manufacture etc..

Otherwise, AISI 316 is a good material used in pressure
vessels at those temperatures and pressures (atleast in EC PED),
if the corrosion properties are ok for the application and it
is OK for ASME at that temperature etc.. Metal C-rings work
fine if seals are needed (for example, inconel 718 c-ring).
Seal design (and bolt design for keeping the seal intact) is
part of the pressure vessel calculations too..

In PED maximum round rod size is 250mm diameter, after
that you have to use a forging.. Check what the code requirements
are.. At least, material must have appropriate material
certificate..

On 7/27/12 3:42 AM, Kristian Ukkonen wrote:
On 7/26/2012 18:40, Morris Dovey wrote:
The first part needed is a stainless steel containment vessel, the
second is a manifold block incorporating a gas passage and provision for
four solenoid valves and a pressure sensor, and the third is a
mechanical linkage between a motor and the handle on a standard bottled
gas pressure regulator.

The containment vessel and the manifold need to be able to withstand
pressure to 3450kPa/500psi and temperature to 500ËšC/932ËšF.

It is a pressure vessel so in US you need to make it
according to ASME code (unless exempt by size or such)?
That includes design, manufacture etc..

Otherwise, AISI 316 is a good material used in pressure
vessels at those temperatures and pressures (atleast in EC PED),
if the corrosion properties are ok for the application and it
is OK for ASME at that temperature etc.. Metal C-rings work
fine if seals are needed (for example, inconel 718 c-ring).
Seal design (and bolt design for keeping the seal intact) is
part of the pressure vessel calculations too..

In PED maximum round rod size is 250mm diameter, after
that you have to use a forging.. Check what the code requirements
are.. At least, material must have appropriate material
certificate..

I'm not sure of applicability to a personal experimental apparatus - but
have been looking at this 316 tubing


http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant... 902&top_cat=1

for the containment vessel shell, which is listed with a 6720psi
bursting pressure; and


http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant... 902&top_cat=1

for the heater well, which has a bursting pressure of 16800psi, but
which will be subjected only to compressive forces.

The C-Ring seal suggestion is /much/ appreciated and I'm planning to see
what other metals are available (since Iconel is primarily a nickel
alloy and this particular reactor considers Ni to be food). :-)

--
Morris Dovey
http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
http://www.facebook.com/MorrisDovey

On 7/27/2012 18:56, Morris Dovey wrote:
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant... 902&top_cat=1

for the containment vessel shell, which is listed with a 6720psi
bursting pressure; and

0.6" diameter? Small one then. So it is just a piece of small pipe.
Forget ASME then.

Anyway, the pressure rating is not at 500C, but I doubt it will be
a problem except perhaps at connections.. You propably do ok with
thick-wall tubing and ferrule-connectors.

The C-Ring seal suggestion is /much/ appreciated and I'm planning to see
what other metals are available (since Iconel is primarily a nickel
alloy and this particular reactor considers Ni to be food). :-)

Guess what there is about 14% in 316..

"Kristian Ukkonen" wrote in message
...
On 7/27/2012 18:56, Morris Dovey wrote:
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant... 902&top_cat=1

for the containment vessel shell, which is listed with a 6720psi
bursting pressure; and


http://www.asme.org/kb/standards/bpv...s---division-1

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=204738

jsw

On 7/29/12 9:42 AM, Kristian Ukkonen wrote:
On 7/27/2012 18:56, Morris Dovey wrote:
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant... 902&top_cat=1


for the containment vessel shell, which is listed with a 6720psi
bursting pressure; and

0.6" diameter? Small one then. So it is just a piece of small pipe.
Forget ASME then.

Anyway, the pressure rating is not at 500C, but I doubt it will be
a problem except perhaps at connections.. You propably do ok with
thick-wall tubing and ferrule-connectors.

The C-Ring seal suggestion is /much/ appreciated and I'm planning to see
what other metals are available (since Iconel is primarily a nickel
alloy and this particular reactor considers Ni to be food). :-)

Guess what there is about 14% in 316..

Yuppers. The 14% might be tolerable, but the plan is to copper plate all
interior surfaces of the containment vessel/reaction chamber to avoid
problems there - but I'm not very confident that this approach would
work well for seals.

According to Wikipedia, Iconel varies from 50% to 72% nickel - so I've
been looking at C-ring and omega-ring seals in other metals/alloys.

The seals are something I didn't even know to look for before your post,
so you've (already) been a real help!

Thank you.

--
Morris Dovey
http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
http://www.facebook.com/MorrisDovey

On 7/29/12 11:35 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Kristian Ukkonen" wrote in message
...
On 7/27/2012 18:56, Morris Dovey wrote:
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant... 902&top_cat=1

for the containment vessel shell, which is listed with a 6720psi
bursting pressure; and

http://www.asme.org/kb/standards/bpv...s---division-1

I wasn't able to get much useful here. I could browse to see contents of
sections, but couldn't even pull up pricing and ordering info. AFAICT,
the nuclear stuff all relates to fission (dirty) reactors.

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=204738

Appears to provide some good (and encouraging) info. I think I'm going
to end up doing a fair amount of reading here, not so much to learn what
these guys know, but to learn enough of the language the language to be
able to do searches for specific stuff I need.

Thanks!

--
Morris Dovey
http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
http://www.facebook.com/MorrisDovey

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
... Appears to provide some good (and encouraging) info. I think
I'm going to end up doing a fair amount of reading here, not so much
to learn what these guys know, but to learn enough of the language
the language to be able to do searches for specific stuff I need.
Morris Dovey

That's about all I could get out of it. I'm on dialup and can't search
very fast. Maybe you could find a used chemical or mechanical
engineering textbook. We used only glassware.

Marks' Standard Handbook shows nothing. Machinery's Handbook 23 has a
couple of pages on thin- and thick-walled pressure vessel design. For
you thin means tubing, thick means drilled from solid stock.

jsw

On Jul 29, 2:04*pm, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:

Marks' Standard Handbook shows nothing. Machinery's Handbook 23 has a
couple of pages on thin- and thick-walled pressure vessel design. For
you thin means tubing, thick means drilled from solid stock.

jsw

There is also Hollow Bar. As the name suggests it is bar stock that
has a hole thru it.
There is a Seattle metalheads yahoo group. You might be ablo to
persuade someone in the Seattle area to check the specialty steel
distributor just north of where Boeing Surplus used to be. They had
remnants of hollow bar. Do not know what the situation is now.

Dan

Morris Dovey wrote:
On 7/29/12 9:42 AM, Kristian Ukkonen wrote:
On 7/27/2012 18:56, Morris Dovey wrote:
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant... 902&top_cat=1



for the containment vessel shell, which is listed with a 6720psi
bursting pressure; and

0.6" diameter? Small one then. So it is just a piece of small pipe.
Forget ASME then.

Anyway, the pressure rating is not at 500C, but I doubt it will be
a problem except perhaps at connections.. You propably do ok with
thick-wall tubing and ferrule-connectors.

The C-Ring seal suggestion is /much/ appreciated and I'm planning to see
what other metals are available (since Iconel is primarily a nickel
alloy and this particular reactor considers Ni to be food). :-)

Guess what there is about 14% in 316..

Yuppers. The 14% might be tolerable, but the plan is to copper plate all
interior surfaces of the containment vessel/reaction chamber to avoid
problems there - but I'm not very confident that this approach would
work well for seals.

According to Wikipedia, Iconel varies from 50% to 72% nickel - so I've
been looking at C-ring and omega-ring seals in other metals/alloys.

The seals are something I didn't even know to look for before your post,
so you've (already) been a real help!

Thank you.


Morris,

A common way to get a good seal on a high pressure joint is using a
phonograph record finish on the flanges. The phonograph record finish
is actually a face cut using a facing head on a horizontal mill that
moves in or out at about 1/16 per rev. that produces a finish similar to
a phonograph record. When the pipe flanges are tightened it grips the
gasket so it will not blow out. We put these finishes on pumps and
flanges that handle over 1000 psi. I would imagine you can get gasket
material that would handle the temperature.


John

On 7/30/2012 4:24, john wrote:
A common way to get a good seal on a high pressure joint is using a
phonograph record finish on the flanges. The phonograph record finish
is actually a face cut using a facing head on a horizontal mill that
moves in or out at about 1/16 per rev. that produces a finish similar to
a phonograph record. When the pipe flanges are tightened it grips the
gasket so it will not blow out. We put these finishes on pumps and
flanges that handle over 1000 psi. I would imagine you can get gasket
material that would handle the temperature.

There is no such material at 500C, I can almost promise.
At lower pressure graphite-metal-based seals like grafoil,
but at 500C no way.. Graphite will flow out from the seal,
it is almost like a liquid at those temperatures.

At high pressure and temperatures metal-to-metal seals
are the easy way often.. See Nova or AE fittings..
Very thick wall tubing with the end of tubing made
into a taper.. It mates with a taper at the connector
(at slightly different angle), making line-contact
(or rather circle). Works nicely to hundreds of bar
and hundreds of C at the same time.. There is OD thread
at end of tube for pushing the tube and fitting together..

On 7/29/2012 19:46, Morris Dovey wrote:
Yuppers. The 14% might be tolerable, but the plan is to copper plate all
interior surfaces of the containment vessel/reaction chamber to avoid
problems there - but I'm not very confident that this approach would
work well for seals.

I would worry about stability of copper at 500C.. Also,
how it react with 316 in corrosion point of view..

According to Wikipedia, Iconel varies from 50% to 72% nickel - so I've
been looking at C-ring and omega-ring seals in other metals/alloys.

Mechanical strength at 500C becomes a problem, I'm afraid..
There is a reason why materials like Inconel 718 are used..

However, you can avoid separate "seals" with proper metal-to-metal
seals where the tubing and connector form the seal between themselves,
IF your device is just a couple of small tubes.
http://www.autoclave.com/products/fi..._fittings.html

On 7/26/12 10:40 AM, Morris Dovey wrote:

I'm looking for help with two (possibly three) relatively small metal
parts for my current R&D project, and decided to "stick my toe in the
water" on r.c.m to see if anyone would be interested in tackling any or
all of them.

Thanks for the good advice to those who provided it. I've decided to
braze all of my connections, but will continue digging for information
on seals.

I figure that my little horizontal bandsaw will do for cutting s/s
tubing to length, and I've gone ahead and ordered a "Little Torch" to
braze the parts together. I've never done anything like that before, but
how difficult can it possibly be?

That liability issues could be a show-stopping intimidation factor never
entered my mind - I'd figured that compensation might be the major
problem, but seem to have misjudged badly.

Unsubscribing...

--
Morris Dovey
http://www.iedu.com/Solar/
http://www.facebook.com/MorrisDovey

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
On 7/26/12 10:40 AM, Morris Dovey wrote:

I'm looking for help with two (possibly three) relatively small
metal
parts for my current R&D project, and decided to "stick my toe in
the
water" on r.c.m to see if anyone would be interested in tackling
any or
all of them.

Thanks for the good advice to those who provided it. I've decided to
braze all of my connections, but will continue digging for
information on seals.

I figure that my little horizontal bandsaw will do for cutting s/s
tubing to length, and I've gone ahead and ordered a "Little Torch"
to braze the parts together. I've never done anything like that
before, but how difficult can it possibly be?

Practice on scrap first. A crack loves to tag along a short ways
behind the puddle.

That liability issues could be a show-stopping intimidation factor
never entered my mind - I'd figured that compensation might be the
major problem, but seem to have misjudged badly.
Unsubscribing...
Morris Dovey