My wanted a touch-pad for her recipes in the kitchen - so I got her
one for Christmas. Now she is looking for a holder that will store
the pad up under the upper cabinets and pivot down and out for her to
read. The only articulating holder that I found was for an I-pad and
hers is not the same size. I am thinking of a bracket mounted to the
underside of the upper cabinet with a simple pivot, a pair of links
that are saw cut for the touch-pad to slip into. I am thinking of
making the links out of annealed 304 SS. Do I need to be concerned
about work hardening from sawing? I have very little experience
working w/ SS.

"aribert neumann" wrote in message
...
My wanted a touch-pad for her recipes in the kitchen - so I got her
one for Christmas. Now she is looking for a holder that will store
the pad up under the upper cabinets and pivot down and out for her to
read. The only articulating holder that I found was for an I-pad and
hers is not the same size. I am thinking of a bracket mounted to the
underside of the upper cabinet with a simple pivot, a pair of links
that are saw cut for the touch-pad to slip into. I am thinking of
making the links out of annealed 304 SS. Do I need to be concerned
about work hardening from sawing? I have very little experience
working w/ SS.

http://www.thehardwarehut.com/catalo...p?p_ref=182416
It's not SS but I didn't spend much time searching wither.
Art

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 19:35:24 -0800 (PST), aribert neumann
wrote:

My wanted a touch-pad for her recipes in the kitchen - so I got her
one for Christmas. Now she is looking for a holder that will store
the pad up under the upper cabinets and pivot down and out for her to
read. The only articulating holder that I found was for an I-pad and
hers is not the same size. I am thinking of a bracket mounted to the
underside of the upper cabinet with a simple pivot, a pair of links
that are saw cut for the touch-pad to slip into. I am thinking of
making the links out of annealed 304 SS. Do I need to be concerned
about work hardening from sawing? I have very little experience
working w/ SS.

I've got a whole bunch of 304 sheet. I basically can't bandsaw it, it
just dulls the blade

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 19:35:24 -0800 (PST), aribert neumann
wrote:

My wanted a touch-pad for her recipes in the kitchen - so I got her
one for Christmas. Now she is looking for a holder that will store
the pad up under the upper cabinets and pivot down and out for her to
read. The only articulating holder that I found was for an I-pad and
hers is not the same size. I am thinking of a bracket mounted to the
underside of the upper cabinet with a simple pivot, a pair of links
that are saw cut for the touch-pad to slip into. I am thinking of
making the links out of annealed 304 SS. Do I need to be concerned
about work hardening from sawing? I have very little experience
working w/ SS.

I've got a whole bunch of 304 sheet. I basically can't bandsaw it, it
just dulls the blade
Slow the surface speed. There's no reason why you can't saw 304 stainless
so long as you have two or more teeth in contact with the cut at all times.
For thin material, shoot for a 32 pitch blade. Hard to find, but it will do
the job.

Harold

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 22:55:39 -0600, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 19:35:24 -0800 (PST), aribert neumann
wrote:

My wanted a touch-pad for her recipes in the kitchen - so I got her
one for Christmas. Now she is looking for a holder that will store
the pad up under the upper cabinets and pivot down and out for her to
read. The only articulating holder that I found was for an I-pad and
hers is not the same size. I am thinking of a bracket mounted to the
underside of the upper cabinet with a simple pivot, a pair of links
that are saw cut for the touch-pad to slip into. I am thinking of
making the links out of annealed 304 SS. Do I need to be concerned
about work hardening from sawing? I have very little experience
working w/ SS.

I've got a whole bunch of 304 sheet. I basically can't bandsaw it, it
just dulls the blade

If you want to see a discussion of bandsawing 304 - 316 stainless, I
wrote an article about it last month that will at least explain what's
going on, and what bandsaw blade makers do to overcome it:

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/fabs...ruary2012/#/44

It's not easy with small bandsaws to get enough pressure on the cut.
Most people try to use a fine-pitch blade, and that just work-hardens
the material.

If you're hacksawing by hand, keep up the pressure, don't let the
blade skate over the work, and use the coarsest-tooth blade you can
get away with.

303 is easier to saw. Just don't use it for outdoors projects.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 19:35:24 -0800 (PST), aribert neumann
wrote:

My wanted a touch-pad for her recipes in the kitchen - so I got her
one for Christmas. Now she is looking for a holder that will store
the pad up under the upper cabinets and pivot down and out for her to
read. The only articulating holder that I found was for an I-pad and
hers is not the same size. I am thinking of a bracket mounted to the
underside of the upper cabinet with a simple pivot, a pair of links
that are saw cut for the touch-pad to slip into. I am thinking of
making the links out of annealed 304 SS. Do I need to be concerned
about work hardening from sawing? I have very little experience
working w/ SS.

I hack saw 304 pretty regularly with no problems. But the easy way is
with a 4 inch angle grinder and 1 mm disks. Cuts faster then a saw.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 05:14:04 GMT, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 19:35:24 -0800 (PST), aribert neumann
wrote:

My wanted a touch-pad for her recipes in the kitchen - so I got her
one for Christmas. Now she is looking for a holder that will store
the pad up under the upper cabinets and pivot down and out for her to
read. The only articulating holder that I found was for an I-pad and
hers is not the same size. I am thinking of a bracket mounted to the
underside of the upper cabinet with a simple pivot, a pair of links
that are saw cut for the touch-pad to slip into. I am thinking of
making the links out of annealed 304 SS. Do I need to be concerned
about work hardening from sawing? I have very little experience
working w/ SS.

I've got a whole bunch of 304 sheet. I basically can't bandsaw it, it
just dulls the blade
Slow the surface speed. There's no reason why you can't saw 304 stainless
so long as you have two or more teeth in contact with the cut at all times.
For thin material, shoot for a 32 pitch blade. Hard to find, but it will do
the job.

Harold

hard to find? I've never seen or heard of it for large blades. I've
got 32 pitch in 1/4 in wide but no way could you put enough pressure
for stainless. Where would you go for a fine pitch 3/4" by 10' blade?

Karl

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:38:33 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 22:55:39 -0600, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 19:35:24 -0800 (PST), aribert neumann
wrote:

My wanted a touch-pad for her recipes in the kitchen - so I got her
one for Christmas. Now she is looking for a holder that will store
the pad up under the upper cabinets and pivot down and out for her to
read. The only articulating holder that I found was for an I-pad and
hers is not the same size. I am thinking of a bracket mounted to the
underside of the upper cabinet with a simple pivot, a pair of links
that are saw cut for the touch-pad to slip into. I am thinking of
making the links out of annealed 304 SS. Do I need to be concerned
about work hardening from sawing? I have very little experience
working w/ SS.

I've got a whole bunch of 304 sheet. I basically can't bandsaw it, it
just dulls the blade

If you want to see a discussion of bandsawing 304 - 316 stainless, I
wrote an article about it last month that will at least explain what's
going on, and what bandsaw blade makers do to overcome it:

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/fabs...ruary2012/#/44

It's not easy with small bandsaws to get enough pressure on the cut.
Most people try to use a fine-pitch blade, and that just work-hardens
the material.

If you're hacksawing by hand, keep up the pressure, don't let the
blade skate over the work, and use the coarsest-tooth blade you can
get away with.

303 is easier to saw. Just don't use it for outdoors projects.

Ed, I've got close to a 1000 sq ft of 304 in thickness from 0.060 to
0.250. Is there a Starret VTF blade for this? I have a roll in
bandsaw and can put a fair bit of pressure on the blade.

I have cut some of the thicker stuff with a 10-14 bimetal blade. But
it had better be a valuable project cause the blade won't last very
long. Mostly, I just get out the plasma cutter or Modern brand
gobbler.

Karl

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 05:14:04 GMT, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Karl Townsend" wrote in message


I've got a whole bunch of 304 sheet. I basically can't bandsaw it, it
just dulls the blade

Slow the surface speed.

Or speed it way up. Friction sawing SS works exceptionally well. The
cut thickness is limited by blade speed. I can do 11ga on my older
DoAll, but it maxes out at 1500FPM. I used to have a 36" Crescent that
I set up to run at around 6000FPM. It made quick work of 3/8", slowed
down for 1/2", and would cut 3/4" in a pinch. The DoAll Zephyrs are
purpose-built for friction sawing and run up to 15000FPM.

A dull 10T carbon blade works fine, but will fail pretty quickly from
fatigue. Factory welded friction blades run much longer before they
break. Make sure to have good guards, and pay attention to the
tick-tick-tick that signals the blade is about to let go.

--
Ned Simmons

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 22:55:39 -0600, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 19:35:24 -0800 (PST), aribert neumann
wrote:

My wanted a touch-pad for her recipes in the kitchen - so I got her
one for Christmas. Now she is looking for a holder that will store
the pad up under the upper cabinets and pivot down and out for her to
read. The only articulating holder that I found was for an I-pad and
hers is not the same size. I am thinking of a bracket mounted to the
underside of the upper cabinet with a simple pivot, a pair of links
that are saw cut for the touch-pad to slip into. I am thinking of
making the links out of annealed 304 SS. Do I need to be concerned
about work hardening from sawing? I have very little experience
working w/ SS.

I've got a whole bunch of 304 sheet. I basically can't bandsaw it, it
just dulls the blade

Got Plasma?


--
Good ideas alter the power balance in relationships, that is why
good ideas are always initially resisted. Good ideas come with a
heavy burden. Which is why so few people have them. So few people
can handle it.
-- Hugh Macleod

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 05:25:12 -0600, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:38:33 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 22:55:39 -0600, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 19:35:24 -0800 (PST), aribert neumann
wrote:

My wanted a touch-pad for her recipes in the kitchen - so I got her
one for Christmas. Now she is looking for a holder that will store
the pad up under the upper cabinets and pivot down and out for her to
read. The only articulating holder that I found was for an I-pad and
hers is not the same size. I am thinking of a bracket mounted to the
underside of the upper cabinet with a simple pivot, a pair of links
that are saw cut for the touch-pad to slip into. I am thinking of
making the links out of annealed 304 SS. Do I need to be concerned
about work hardening from sawing? I have very little experience
working w/ SS.

I've got a whole bunch of 304 sheet. I basically can't bandsaw it, it
just dulls the blade

If you want to see a discussion of bandsawing 304 - 316 stainless, I
wrote an article about it last month that will at least explain what's
going on, and what bandsaw blade makers do to overcome it:

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/fabs...ruary2012/#/44

It's not easy with small bandsaws to get enough pressure on the cut.
Most people try to use a fine-pitch blade, and that just work-hardens
the material.

If you're hacksawing by hand, keep up the pressure, don't let the
blade skate over the work, and use the coarsest-tooth blade you can
get away with.

303 is easier to saw. Just don't use it for outdoors projects.

Ed, I've got close to a 1000 sq ft of 304 in thickness from 0.060 to
0.250. Is there a Starret VTF blade for this? I have a roll in
bandsaw and can put a fair bit of pressure on the blade.

Ya' got me, Karl. I think the VTH is primarily for barstock and thick
sections.

You can take a look at Starrett's selection guides and see what they
recommend. They're also very good on the phone. Here's their
application-based blade selection info:

http://www.starrett.com/saws/saws-ha...and-saw-blades



I have cut some of the thicker stuff with a 10-14 bimetal blade. But
it had better be a valuable project cause the blade won't last very
long. Mostly, I just get out the plasma cutter or Modern brand
gobbler.

Karl

Well, I guess you read my article and you see why regular bimetal
blades have a tough go in austenitic stainless. They're probably the
most commonly used baldes, however, especially if you don't have power
feed. They'll do the job but, as you say, they don't last very long.

Thin stainless is a bugger to bandsaw. If you learn something from
Starrett or anywhere else, I'll bet a lot of folks here would be
interested.

--
Ed Huntress

Ned Simmons fired this volley in
:

Slow the surface speed.

nah... start with a sharp blade, and increase the down pressure.

There's nothing about 304SS in the annealed state that makes it hard to
cut, except this: If the blade "skates" (even a tiny bit), it work-
hardens the surface of the 304 to WAY beyond what a carbon blade can
handle.

Start in a fresh spot - never, EVER try to re-cut in a kerf that failed -
and keep enough down-pressure on the blade so that every tooth cuts the
whole width of the work.

And _that_ means you may have to go to a coarser blade, because if a
gullet fills up with chips, then it lifts off the work and skates. The
tooth pattern must be coarse enough to handle the entire chip generated
over the width of the cut.

There's benefit in a higher surface speed, because it makes each tooth
pass through the cut faster, thus taking off less metal per "stroke".

It's the same thing drilling the stuff. Strong, continuous down-
pressure, with fairly low surface speed for drilling by hand.

If you ever have to retract to clear chips, you must transition from
full-pressure drilling to retracting in one quick reversal, so the
cutting edges never, ever skate (idle is what the metal men call it) in
the hole. For the same reason as when sawing, you should clear chips
frequently to avoid the flutes' clogging and causing the chips to rub in
the hole.

LLoyd

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 05:08:06 -0600, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 05:14:04 GMT, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 19:35:24 -0800 (PST), aribert neumann
wrote:

My wanted a touch-pad for her recipes in the kitchen - so I got her
one for Christmas. Now she is looking for a holder that will store
the pad up under the upper cabinets and pivot down and out for her to
read. The only articulating holder that I found was for an I-pad and
hers is not the same size. I am thinking of a bracket mounted to the
underside of the upper cabinet with a simple pivot, a pair of links
that are saw cut for the touch-pad to slip into. I am thinking of
making the links out of annealed 304 SS. Do I need to be concerned
about work hardening from sawing? I have very little experience
working w/ SS.

I've got a whole bunch of 304 sheet. I basically can't bandsaw it, it
just dulls the blade
Slow the surface speed. There's no reason why you can't saw 304 stainless
so long as you have two or more teeth in contact with the cut at all times.
For thin material, shoot for a 32 pitch blade. Hard to find, but it will do
the job.

Harold

hard to find? I've never seen or heard of it for large blades. I've
got 32 pitch in 1/4 in wide but no way could you put enough pressure
for stainless. Where would you go for a fine pitch 3/4" by 10' blade?

Direct to the mfgrs? Or ask a tool shop to find one for you, at the
risk of paying a hefty premium to them for the search.

--
Good ideas alter the power balance in relationships, that is why
good ideas are always initially resisted. Good ideas come with a
heavy burden. Which is why so few people have them. So few people
can handle it.
-- Hugh Macleod

On 2/23/2012 8:55 PM, Karl Townsend wrote:

I've got a whole bunch of 304 sheet. I basically can't bandsaw it, it
just dulls the blade

Speed that sucker up... I worked at an ultra high vac company that makes
time of flight instruments, all in 304ss. They took a rather
unimpressive Craftsman band saw and upped the blade speed into the lower
reaches of friction sawing territory. It would saw up to 1/8" with ease,
3/16 would slowly bog the motor requiring cutting in short advances.
Used 1/4" woodworking blades. Oh, it's pretty noisy...


Jon

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:59:10 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 05:14:04 GMT, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Karl Townsend" wrote in message


I've got a whole bunch of 304 sheet. I basically can't bandsaw it, it
just dulls the blade

Slow the surface speed.

Or speed it way up. Friction sawing SS works exceptionally well. The
cut thickness is limited by blade speed. I can do 11ga on my older
DoAll, but it maxes out at 1500FPM. I used to have a 36" Crescent that
I set up to run at around 6000FPM. It made quick work of 3/8", slowed
down for 1/2", and would cut 3/4" in a pinch. The DoAll Zephyrs are
purpose-built for friction sawing and run up to 15000FPM.

A dull 10T carbon blade works fine, but will fail pretty quickly from
fatigue. Factory welded friction blades run much longer before they
break. Make sure to have good guards, and pay attention to the
tick-tick-tick that signals the blade is about to let go.

Not often I learn somthing new. Sounds interesting. I'll try a dull
blade, not much investment for that. Where would you order a regular
friction blade?

Karl

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 11:39:35 -0600, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:59:10 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 05:14:04 GMT, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Karl Townsend" wrote in message


I've got a whole bunch of 304 sheet. I basically can't bandsaw it, it
just dulls the blade

Slow the surface speed.

Or speed it way up. Friction sawing SS works exceptionally well. The
cut thickness is limited by blade speed. I can do 11ga on my older
DoAll, but it maxes out at 1500FPM. I used to have a 36" Crescent that
I set up to run at around 6000FPM. It made quick work of 3/8", slowed
down for 1/2", and would cut 3/4" in a pinch. The DoAll Zephyrs are
purpose-built for friction sawing and run up to 15000FPM.

A dull 10T carbon blade works fine, but will fail pretty quickly from
fatigue. Factory welded friction blades run much longer before they
break. Make sure to have good guards, and pay attention to the
tick-tick-tick that signals the blade is about to let go.

Not often I learn somthing new. Sounds interesting. I'll try a dull
blade, not much investment for that. Where would you order a regular
friction blade?

Karl


I bought Milford brand blades from a travelling tool rep. We tried
having them welded by a local saw shop, but the factory welds held up
much better. The blades for that 36" saw were almost 20', and because
of the blade length and large wheel radius, the saw teeth were
usually just bumps by the time the blade let go. I never seem to run
out of dull blades for my 16" DoAll, so I just use them instead of
buying real friction blades.

Here's a supplier and some more info. Unless you have a very big saw
with lots of HP I wouldn't bother with anything wider than 1/2"
blades.
http://www.detroitbandsaw.com/store....73&catid=19886

The chips coming off my 36" saw at 6000FPM were hot, with a just a few
dull red sparks. More a case of softening the material in the kerf and
dragging it out rather than burning it. The saw in the pic on that
page must be running much faster.

Never had a problem with igniting debris in or around the saw, but
it'd be safest to remove any flammable dust before friction sawing.

--
Ned Simmons

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
...
The chips coming off my 36" saw at 6000FPM were hot, with a just a
few
dull red sparks. More a case of softening the material in the kerf
and
dragging it out rather than burning it. The saw in the pic on that
page must be running much faster....
Ned Simmons

I was saber-sawing an opening in a stainless steel industrial oven
door and didn't notice immediately when the teeth stripped off and the
blade began cutting by friction. The blade kept cutting at about the
same speed, without throwing hot sparks. When the blade wore down
unevenly I turned it backwards and continued.

jsw

....
Here's a supplier and some more info. Unless you have a very big saw
with lots of HP I wouldn't bother with anything wider than 1/2"
blades.
http://www.detroitbandsaw.com/store....73&catid=19886


MAN, CHEAP TOO! Only $13 a piece for 3/4" by 10'

I placed an order. Thanks Ned.

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:52:52 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
.. .
...
The chips coming off my 36" saw at 6000FPM were hot, with a just a
few
dull red sparks. More a case of softening the material in the kerf
and
dragging it out rather than burning it. The saw in the pic on that
page must be running much faster....
Ned Simmons

I was saber-sawing an opening in a stainless steel industrial oven
door and didn't notice immediately when the teeth stripped off and the
blade began cutting by friction. The blade kept cutting at about the
same speed, without throwing hot sparks. When the blade wore down
unevenly I turned it backwards and continued.

jsw


Yup, when everything is working right, you apply pressure to the cut
and there's a slight delay while the kerf heats up. Once there's some
movement, it doesn't take much force to keep the cut going. If too
much force is required it means the blade speed isn't high enough. At
1500FPM my DoAll works, but is less than ideal, on 1/8" SS.

--
Ned Simmons

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 11:39:35 -0600, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:59:10 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 05:14:04 GMT, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Karl Townsend" wrote in message


I've got a whole bunch of 304 sheet. I basically can't bandsaw it, it
just dulls the blade

Slow the surface speed.

Or speed it way up. Friction sawing SS works exceptionally well. The
cut thickness is limited by blade speed. I can do 11ga on my older
DoAll, but it maxes out at 1500FPM. I used to have a 36" Crescent that
I set up to run at around 6000FPM. It made quick work of 3/8", slowed
down for 1/2", and would cut 3/4" in a pinch. The DoAll Zephyrs are
purpose-built for friction sawing and run up to 15000FPM.

A dull 10T carbon blade works fine, but will fail pretty quickly from
fatigue. Factory welded friction blades run much longer before they
break. Make sure to have good guards, and pay attention to the
tick-tick-tick that signals the blade is about to let go.

Not often I learn somthing new. Sounds interesting. I'll try a dull
blade, not much investment for that. Where would you order a regular
friction blade?

Karl

We used to friction saw by turning a regular blade over so the teeth
pointed up and running the highest speed.

--
Cheers,

John B.

All:
Thanks for the responses - you have convinced me that I don't want to
play w/ stainless if I do not need to. Originally I was thinking of
using aluminum and then I figured why not stretch a bit and work w/
SS. My plan was to take 3/16 x 1.25 flat stock and make a pair of
links and bandsaw cut the profile of the touchpad into the links
(sliding the touchpad in from the side - worked well when I used a
piece of scrap wood as a proof of concept). I was thinking of using
304 SS - Since I would have left over material, if I needed to weld
on it on a future project.


Artemus:
THanks for the link to the linkset for the cookbook holder - it got me
looking at cookbook holders and I ended up buying one off of Amazon.
Now I can go back to spending my precious free time on my projects and
not fabbing up a touchpad holder!

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 08:39:37 -0800 (PST), aribert neumann
wrote:

All:
Thanks for the responses - you have convinced me that I don't want to
play w/ stainless if I do not need to. Originally I was thinking of
using aluminum and then I figured why not stretch a bit and work w/
SS. My plan was to take 3/16 x 1.25 flat stock and make a pair of
links and bandsaw cut the profile of the touchpad into the links
(sliding the touchpad in from the side - worked well when I used a
piece of scrap wood as a proof of concept). I was thinking of using
304 SS - Since I would have left over material, if I needed to weld
on it on a future project.


Artemus:
THanks for the link to the linkset for the cookbook holder - it got me
looking at cookbook holders and I ended up buying one off of Amazon.
Now I can go back to spending my precious free time on my projects and
not fabbing up a touchpad holder!


303...its for me
304..its a whore

Something to keep in mind when dealing with "stainless steels"

Gunner

--
One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

303...its for me
304..its a whore

Something to keep in mind when dealing with "stainless steels"

Gunner

And 316 is (whore)squared