Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric

On Oct 25, 2:16*pm, wrote:
Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.

One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket.

.. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric

I would not include the reverse at least at first. You could probably
add a brake to the boat fairly easily. Sailboat do not have a
reverse and it is not that big a deal. You just always approach the
dock from the down wind side.

Dan

wrote in message ...

Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric

================================================== ===============

Many decades ago, single-cylinder inboards were used for some small fishing
and utility boats here in NJ. Horizontal-shaft motors typically used a
conventional shaft log, packed with tarred rope at the ends and made of two
planks screwed together. Vertical-shaft motors used a through-hull gasket
and a right-angle powerhead that looked like the bottom-end unit of an
outboard. In fact, that's what some of them were. The shaft-log types didn't
have reverse, IIRC, but at least some of the through-hole vertical-shaft
units did.

'Don't know about cooling conversions. Most were air-cooled mower engines
and the like. Exhaust stacks went straight up around five feet. An
underwater exhaust is quieter, but not easy to implement.

Good luck. If you can pick up a cheap or free outboard with a shot motor,
most of your work is done.

--
Ed Huntress

On Oct 25, 2:16*pm, wrote:
Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. *For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric

Well if you have the skills to fab a water jacket then the only other
big hurdle would seem to be how to handle reverse. Instead of a gear
box why not a kitchen rudder?

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 15:24:32 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:



wrote in message ...

Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric

================================================= ================

Many decades ago, single-cylinder inboards were used for some small fishing
and utility boats here in NJ. Horizontal-shaft motors typically used a
conventional shaft log, packed with tarred rope at the ends and made of two
planks screwed together. Vertical-shaft motors used a through-hull gasket
and a right-angle powerhead that looked like the bottom-end unit of an
outboard. In fact, that's what some of them were. The shaft-log types didn't
have reverse, IIRC, but at least some of the through-hole vertical-shaft
units did.

'Don't know about cooling conversions. Most were air-cooled mower engines
and the like. Exhaust stacks went straight up around five feet. An
underwater exhaust is quieter, but not easy to implement.

Good luck. If you can pick up a cheap or free outboard with a shot motor,
most of your work is done.
I could even hack the 10 hp merc I already have or an old 5 hp that I
have but these are 2 stroke motors. I don't want to dump any more oil
in the water. I thought about using the lower unit from an outboard
with the reverse built in and just rotating for reverse or using a
plain lower unit and rotating 180 degrees for reverse. However, I like
the idea of a straight shaft and a rudder. And reverse is important to
me. I have three outboards and the big one has reverse while the small
ones just rotate 360 degrees. I like reversing. It really helps a lot
when it's just me in the boat. which is most of the time.
Eric

wrote in message ...

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 15:24:32 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:



wrote in message ...

Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric

================================================= ================

Many decades ago, single-cylinder inboards were used for some small fishing
and utility boats here in NJ. Horizontal-shaft motors typically used a
conventional shaft log, packed with tarred rope at the ends and made of two
planks screwed together. Vertical-shaft motors used a through-hull gasket
and a right-angle powerhead that looked like the bottom-end unit of an
outboard. In fact, that's what some of them were. The shaft-log types
didn't
have reverse, IIRC, but at least some of the through-hole vertical-shaft
units did.

'Don't know about cooling conversions. Most were air-cooled mower engines
and the like. Exhaust stacks went straight up around five feet. An
underwater exhaust is quieter, but not easy to implement.

Good luck. If you can pick up a cheap or free outboard with a shot motor,
most of your work is done.

I could even hack the 10 hp merc I already have or an old 5 hp that I
have but these are 2 stroke motors. I don't want to dump any more oil
in the water. I thought about using the lower unit from an outboard
with the reverse built in and just rotating for reverse or using a
plain lower unit and rotating 180 degrees for reverse. However, I like
the idea of a straight shaft and a rudder. And reverse is important to
me. I have three outboards and the big one has reverse while the small
ones just rotate 360 degrees. I like reversing. It really helps a lot
when it's just me in the boat. which is most of the time.
Eric

Well, the thought is that you would use the outboard bottom end and a
four-stroke motor, so the condition of the two-stoke wouldn't matter.

Those vertical-shaft conversions I mentioned did not rotate. If they had
reverse, it was a gear reverse in the lower unit. Some of the old ones, and
maybe those made today (I haven't looked) just shifted the pinion shaft from
one side of the bevel gear to the other with a fork. The pinion slid on a
splined shaft.

Regarding cooling, there have been all sorts of arrangements on old
outboards. I had a British Seagull outboard that had a water-cooled cylinder
and an air-cooled head. g

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:25:05 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:



wrote in message ...

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 15:24:32 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:



wrote in message ...

Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric

================================================ =================

Many decades ago, single-cylinder inboards were used for some small fishing
and utility boats here in NJ. Horizontal-shaft motors typically used a
conventional shaft log, packed with tarred rope at the ends and made of two
planks screwed together. Vertical-shaft motors used a through-hull gasket
and a right-angle powerhead that looked like the bottom-end unit of an
outboard. In fact, that's what some of them were. The shaft-log types
didn't
have reverse, IIRC, but at least some of the through-hole vertical-shaft
units did.

'Don't know about cooling conversions. Most were air-cooled mower engines
and the like. Exhaust stacks went straight up around five feet. An
underwater exhaust is quieter, but not easy to implement.

Good luck. If you can pick up a cheap or free outboard with a shot motor,
most of your work is done.

I could even hack the 10 hp merc I already have or an old 5 hp that I
have but these are 2 stroke motors. I don't want to dump any more oil
in the water. I thought about using the lower unit from an outboard
with the reverse built in and just rotating for reverse or using a
plain lower unit and rotating 180 degrees for reverse. However, I like
the idea of a straight shaft and a rudder. And reverse is important to
me. I have three outboards and the big one has reverse while the small
ones just rotate 360 degrees. I like reversing. It really helps a lot
when it's just me in the boat. which is most of the time.
Eric

Well, the thought is that you would use the outboard bottom end and a
four-stroke motor, so the condition of the two-stoke wouldn't matter.

Those vertical-shaft conversions I mentioned did not rotate. If they had
reverse, it was a gear reverse in the lower unit. Some of the old ones, and
maybe those made today (I haven't looked) just shifted the pinion shaft from
one side of the bevel gear to the other with a fork. The pinion slid on a
splined shaft.

Regarding cooling, there have been all sorts of arrangements on old
outboards. I had a British Seagull outboard that had a water-cooled cylinder
and an air-cooled head. g
I mis-read your post ED. Your were talking about using the lower end
and somehow I read that you meant the motor. Oops. About weird
cooling, my neighbor had an outboard that cooled the exhaust with
water and the engine with air.
Eric

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:49:06 -0700 (PDT), Monkey Butler
wrote:

On Oct 25, 2:16*pm, wrote:
Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. *For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric

Well if you have the skills to fab a water jacket then the only other
big hurdle would seem to be how to handle reverse. Instead of a gear
box why not a kitchen rudder?
What is a kitchen rudder?
Thanks,
Eric

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:49:06 -0700 (PDT), Monkey Butler
wrote:

On Oct 25, 2:16*pm, wrote:
Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. *For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric

Well if you have the skills to fab a water jacket then the only other
big hurdle would seem to be how to handle reverse. Instead of a gear
box why not a kitchen rudder?
Greetings MB,
Never mind, Google provided the answer. That's a cool idea. I like it.
Thanks,
Eric

wrote:
Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric

What you're looking for is basically a work boat design. I ran a 14'
hull with a home brewed straight shaft with a variable pitch prop. It
allows you to adjust the speed and direction without changing the engine
rpms. Engine was a 16 HP Briggs twin from a Cub Cadet tractor. Even used
the factory engine plate because the engine sets at an angle already.
Air cooled and exhaust ran out through a car muffler and out the
transom. Built a tower in the middle that covered the engine, held the
prop direction and steering controls for the rudder. The prop came from
an outfit called Marine Propeller.
Not super fast but it worked well enough. I have since replaced the
entire boat with a 15 foot bass tracker that was a salvage hull.


this one uses a similar prop but a 5 horse engine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmNEO...eature=related


--
Steve W.

On Oct 25, 5:30*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:49:06 -0700 (PDT), Monkey Butler





wrote:
On Oct 25, 2:16*pm, wrote:
Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. *For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric

Well if you have the skills to fab a water jacket then the only other
big hurdle would seem to be how to handle reverse. Instead of a gear
box why not a kitchen rudder?

Greetings MB,
Never mind, Google provided the answer. That's a cool idea. I like it.
Thanks,
Eric

Glad you like it. Let me know if you ever build it.

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 18:16:03 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric

Why not simply leave the motor on?

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 17:57:35 -0700 (PDT), Monkey Butler
wrote:

On Oct 25, 5:30*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:49:06 -0700 (PDT), Monkey Butler





wrote:
On Oct 25, 2:16*pm, wrote:
Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. *For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric

Well if you have the skills to fab a water jacket then the only other
big hurdle would seem to be how to handle reverse. Instead of a gear
box why not a kitchen rudder?

Greetings MB,
Never mind, Google provided the answer. That's a cool idea. I like it.
Thanks,
Eric

Glad you like it. Let me know if you ever build it.
I will. Maybe not so easy to design. I've been thinking about the
curve of the parts and how to use the thing for steering and
reversing. Actually kind of complex linkages involved.
Eric

On 10/25/2011 1:16 PM, wrote:
Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric



Befriend a healthy young lady who likes to fish and can handle the
outboard.

And, maybe, get a smaller motor. My 9.9 Yamaha is 95 pounds dry.

But for the adaptation of an air cooled engine to liquid cooling -
and installing it in a 12 foot boat???
on a tight budget?


I'd have to say the years scheming about it could have been better used
_trying_ it.

OR?

A very good troll....

On 10/25/2011 9:14 PM, wrote:

Glad you like it. Let me know if you ever build it.
I will. Maybe not so easy to design. I've been thinking about the
curve of the parts and how to use the thing for steering and
reversing. Actually kind of complex linkages involved.
Eric

Not that complex - just a mechanical mixer.

Here is one...
http://shop.dubro.com/products/produ....0.0.0?pp=12&#

ANOTHER
http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/fo...ram-iphoto.jpg


The best diagram, I think, is from this Avro Vulcan page...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=860445
(hey, if it works?)

wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 17:57:35 -0700 (PDT), Monkey Butler
wrote:

On Oct 25, 5:30 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:49:06 -0700 (PDT), Monkey Butler





wrote:
On Oct 25, 2:16 pm, wrote:
Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric
Well if you have the skills to fab a water jacket then the only other
big hurdle would seem to be how to handle reverse. Instead of a gear
box why not a kitchen rudder?
Greetings MB,
Never mind, Google provided the answer. That's a cool idea. I like it.
Thanks,
Eric
Glad you like it. Let me know if you ever build it.
I will. Maybe not so easy to design. I've been thinking about the
curve of the parts and how to use the thing for steering and
reversing. Actually kind of complex linkages involved.
Eric

Eric, a small three blade CPP design isn't that hard to make up if you
have a mill or access to a shop.

Basically you have three blades, these get connected to the hub with a
rotating collar. The collar transmits the thrust to the hub. Inside the
hub you have what amounts to eccentric levers. These connect to the
collar and by simply pushing/pulling the rod you control the angle of
the blades.

The one I had used a 1 1/2" shaft diameter with a 1/2" rod inside it.
The shaft was turned with a simple twin sprocket on the outside. The
adjuster stuck out the front of the shaft with a lever attached.

--
Steve W.

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 02:14:39 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 17:57:35 -0700 (PDT), Monkey Butler
wrote:

On Oct 25, 5:30*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:49:06 -0700 (PDT), Monkey Butler





wrote:
On Oct 25, 2:16*pm, wrote:
Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. *For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric

Well if you have the skills to fab a water jacket then the only other
big hurdle would seem to be how to handle reverse. Instead of a gear
box why not a kitchen rudder?

Greetings MB,
Never mind, Google provided the answer. That's a cool idea. I like it.
Thanks,
Eric

Glad you like it. Let me know if you ever build it.
I will. Maybe not so easy to design. I've been thinking about the
curve of the parts and how to use the thing for steering and
reversing. Actually kind of complex linkages involved.
Eric

You can use any liquid cooled engine and build a keel cooler - just a
loop of water pipe mounted parallel with the bottom of the boat. an
inlet and outlet flange attached to the boat and a small header tank.
You will likely be able to use the engines normal water pump to
circulate the coolant. Reverse does present a problem but if you can
make a bracket to hold two gears with a vee belt pulley on each gear
that could be used to reverse a belt driven prop shaft.

Ot just use an air cooled engine and put a wire box over it to keep
body parts from coming into contact with hot engine parts.

Or maybe a "long tail motor". See
http://www.google.com/search?q=long+...w=1600&bih=734

for photos. Although a long tail doesn't have a true reverse you can
go backwards, a little slouch-wise but generally toward the back end.

One thing about a long tail you can use any engine you want, from an
old lawn mower engine to Oh-My-God-Thats-a-Big-One.

But truly, converting a 12 ft. outboard boat is going to be somewhat
of an exercise in frustration. The inboard and its engine mounts and
auxiliary parts is going to weigh more then the outboard did and
because the hull was designed to support the engine on the transom
moving the weight forward may well alter the way the boat sits in the
water.. Unless you build a water cooled exhaust you have the hot
exhaust to contend with.

Anothr thing to think about is whether you really, really, need a
reverse. I use a direct drive outboard on my dinghy and while I can
reverse by turning the engine around backwards I rarely do.. There is
no neutral either, pull the rope and go. A pretty primitive setup but
there are a lot of them around.


--
John B.

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 02:00:01 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 17:57:35 -0700 (PDT), Monkey Butler
wrote:

On Oct 25, 5:30 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:49:06 -0700 (PDT), Monkey Butler





wrote:
On Oct 25, 2:16 pm, wrote:
Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric
Well if you have the skills to fab a water jacket then the only other
big hurdle would seem to be how to handle reverse. Instead of a gear
box why not a kitchen rudder?
Greetings MB,
Never mind, Google provided the answer. That's a cool idea. I like it.
Thanks,
Eric
Glad you like it. Let me know if you ever build it.
I will. Maybe not so easy to design. I've been thinking about the
curve of the parts and how to use the thing for steering and
reversing. Actually kind of complex linkages involved.
Eric

Eric, a small three blade CPP design isn't that hard to make up if you
have a mill or access to a shop.

Basically you have three blades, these get connected to the hub with a
rotating collar. The collar transmits the thrust to the hub. Inside the
hub you have what amounts to eccentric levers. These connect to the
collar and by simply pushing/pulling the rod you control the angle of
the blades.

The one I had used a 1 1/2" shaft diameter with a 1/2" rod inside it.
The shaft was turned with a simple twin sprocket on the outside. The
adjuster stuck out the front of the shaft with a lever attached.
Steve,
Got any pictures or drawings? I thought about something like that and
looked at buying a used one. Very pricey. But maybe really fun to
build. And I have the tools to make one. But making the blades would
be tough to program.
Eric

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 23:35:02 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 10/25/2011 1:16 PM, wrote:
Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric



Befriend a healthy young lady who likes to fish and can handle the
outboard.

And, maybe, get a smaller motor. My 9.9 Yamaha is 95 pounds dry.

But for the adaptation of an air cooled engine to liquid cooling -
and installing it in a 12 foot boat???
on a tight budget?


I'd have to say the years scheming about it could have been better used
_trying_ it.

OR?

A very good troll....
Richard,
I've been busy with other more important things. And I've been using
the boat but my wrist pain has finally gotten to the point that I need
to do something.
Eric

wrote:
Eric, a small three blade CPP design isn't that hard to make up if you
have a mill or access to a shop.

Basically you have three blades, these get connected to the hub with a
rotating collar. The collar transmits the thrust to the hub. Inside the
hub you have what amounts to eccentric levers. These connect to the
collar and by simply pushing/pulling the rod you control the angle of
the blades.

The one I had used a 1 1/2" shaft diameter with a 1/2" rod inside it.
The shaft was turned with a simple twin sprocket on the outside. The
adjuster stuck out the front of the shaft with a lever attached.
Steve,
Got any pictures or drawings? I thought about something like that and
looked at buying a used one. Very pricey. But maybe really fun to
build. And I have the tools to make one. But making the blades would
be tough to program.
Eric


The blades are actually easy. Because you can adjust the pitch on the
fly they don't have to be real complex.

Some good info.

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/pro...ary-30695.html

Controllable pitch propeller on you tube shows a bunch of animated rough
ideas.

The interior of the one I had was nothing more than three eccentrics
with pins that engaged the collar.
The collar was round and made of hardened steel.

Basically it looks like a helicopter collective but internal.

If you want to see one up close there are some made for model aircraft
and model boats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT8gz...eature=related
http://aircraft-world.com/prod_datas...0-ESP-BLUE.htm

simple version
http://www.youtube.com/user/juicepop.../2/uTOJEP8jIGA


--
Steve W.

On 10/26/2011 9:41 AM, wrote:

Befriend a healthy young lady who likes to fish and can handle the
outboard.

And, maybe, get a smaller motor. My 9.9 Yamaha is 95 pounds dry.

But for the adaptation of an air cooled engine to liquid cooling -
and installing it in a 12 foot boat???
on a tight budget?


I'd have to say the years scheming about it could have been better used
_trying_ it.

OR?

A very good troll....
Richard,

I've been busy with other more important things. And I've been using
the boat but my wrist pain has finally gotten to the point that I need
to do something.
Eric

Take Tylenol and Naproxin together. They work symbiotically and it
should help at least some.

As for the boat, from what I saw of the floating lawn mower, a healthy
trolling motor could probably give it a good run for the money and effort.

Or perhaps a Honda 2 HP outboard? Pricy new, but can occassionally be
found used. 29 pounds. I've been saving up to buy one for my dinghy.

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 13:46:14 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 10/26/2011 9:41 AM, wrote:

Befriend a healthy young lady who likes to fish and can handle the
outboard.

And, maybe, get a smaller motor. My 9.9 Yamaha is 95 pounds dry.

But for the adaptation of an air cooled engine to liquid cooling -
and installing it in a 12 foot boat???
on a tight budget?


I'd have to say the years scheming about it could have been better used
_trying_ it.

OR?

A very good troll....
Richard,

I've been busy with other more important things. And I've been using
the boat but my wrist pain has finally gotten to the point that I need
to do something.
Eric

Take Tylenol and Naproxin together. They work symbiotically and it
should help at least some.

As for the boat, from what I saw of the floating lawn mower, a healthy
trolling motor could probably give it a good run for the money and effort.

Or perhaps a Honda 2 HP outboard? Pricy new, but can occassionally be
found used. 29 pounds. I've been saving up to buy one for my dinghy.
Thanks for the pain advice Richard. But I've been dealing with this
pain 1999 and have tried everything. The problem isn't as simple as
joints wearing out. Both wrists were crushed and after all the bone
graftsand reconstructions they just aren't the shape they used to be
and the missing cartilage can't be replaced. I do have a couple 3 hp
trolling outboards. They are noisy and 2 strokes. I bought a small 4
stroke from Honda before they were available on weedeaters. They are
rated at 1 hp. I bought it to make a small trolling motor. Though it
worked well it was noisy and the aluminum the motor is made of did not
tolerate salt air. In just 1 year the corrosion from living above the
beach was severe enough that the clutch housing couldn't be removed.
Eric

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:48:23 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

wrote:
Eric, a small three blade CPP design isn't that hard to make up if you
have a mill or access to a shop.

Basically you have three blades, these get connected to the hub with a
rotating collar. The collar transmits the thrust to the hub. Inside the
hub you have what amounts to eccentric levers. These connect to the
collar and by simply pushing/pulling the rod you control the angle of
the blades.

The one I had used a 1 1/2" shaft diameter with a 1/2" rod inside it.
The shaft was turned with a simple twin sprocket on the outside. The
adjuster stuck out the front of the shaft with a lever attached.
Steve,
Got any pictures or drawings? I thought about something like that and
looked at buying a used one. Very pricey. But maybe really fun to
build. And I have the tools to make one. But making the blades would
be tough to program.
Eric


The blades are actually easy. Because you can adjust the pitch on the
fly they don't have to be real complex.

Some good info.

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/pro...ary-30695.html

Controllable pitch propeller on you tube shows a bunch of animated rough
ideas.

The interior of the one I had was nothing more than three eccentrics
with pins that engaged the collar.
The collar was round and made of hardened steel.

Basically it looks like a helicopter collective but internal.

If you want to see one up close there are some made for model aircraft
and model boats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT8gz...eature=related
http://aircraft-world.com/prod_datas...0-ESP-BLUE.htm

simple version
http://www.youtube.com/user/juicepop.../2/uTOJEP8jIGA
Thanks for the info Steve. Lots of good stuff like you said. Can the
blades really be that simple and work well? I mean, can flat blades
resembling ping pong paddles really work well? I've read a couple
books about propellers, fixed blade types, for boats, and even used
the info with a pitch block to change slightly the pitch on a bronze
prop in an effort to get it to work better with an antique outboard
motor. But if I can get by with flat paddle shapes then it may be
possible for me to make a CPP that actually works well.
Eric

wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:48:23 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

wrote:
Eric, a small three blade CPP design isn't that hard to make up if you
have a mill or access to a shop.

Basically you have three blades, these get connected to the hub with a
rotating collar. The collar transmits the thrust to the hub. Inside the
hub you have what amounts to eccentric levers. These connect to the
collar and by simply pushing/pulling the rod you control the angle of
the blades.

The one I had used a 1 1/2" shaft diameter with a 1/2" rod inside it.
The shaft was turned with a simple twin sprocket on the outside. The
adjuster stuck out the front of the shaft with a lever attached.
Steve,
Got any pictures or drawings? I thought about something like that and
looked at buying a used one. Very pricey. But maybe really fun to
build. And I have the tools to make one. But making the blades would
be tough to program.
Eric

The blades are actually easy. Because you can adjust the pitch on the
fly they don't have to be real complex.

Some good info.

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/pro...ary-30695.html

Controllable pitch propeller on you tube shows a bunch of animated rough
ideas.

The interior of the one I had was nothing more than three eccentrics
with pins that engaged the collar.
The collar was round and made of hardened steel.

Basically it looks like a helicopter collective but internal.

If you want to see one up close there are some made for model aircraft
and model boats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT8gz...eature=related
http://aircraft-world.com/prod_datas...0-ESP-BLUE.htm

simple version
http://www.youtube.com/user/juicepop.../2/uTOJEP8jIGA
Thanks for the info Steve. Lots of good stuff like you said. Can the
blades really be that simple and work well? I mean, can flat blades
resembling ping pong paddles really work well? I've read a couple
books about propellers, fixed blade types, for boats, and even used
the info with a pitch block to change slightly the pitch on a bronze
prop in an effort to get it to work better with an antique outboard
motor. But if I can get by with flat paddle shapes then it may be
possible for me to make a CPP that actually works well.
Eric


They can be but they won't be as efficient. What you can do is to make
them curved more like an airfoil.
Take a look at a common fan blade for an idea. You will want to make the
root thicker though, far more stress in water than air.

--
Steve W.

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 18:16:03 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket.

Hop in your boat and go find this old friend of mine -- he's
practically your neighbor. Note the photo labeled, "1970 - Cohasset
Harbor, Massachusetts Designed and built a boat with lawn mower engine
for power."

I haven't seen Gary in almost 30 years, but unless he's got cranky in
his old age, he'll talk your ear off about this stuff and give you
lots of practical advice.
http://mtpickettwoodworking.com/gary.htm

--
Ned Simmons

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 17:18:26 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 18:16:03 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket.

Hop in your boat and go find this old friend of mine -- he's
practically your neighbor. Note the photo labeled, "1970 - Cohasset
Harbor, Massachusetts Designed and built a boat with lawn mower engine
for power."

I haven't seen Gary in almost 30 years, but unless he's got cranky in
his old age, he'll talk your ear off about this stuff and give you
lots of practical advice.
http://mtpickettwoodworking.com/gary.htm
Greetings Ned,
Gary is not that close to me but I'll contact him and see if he'll see
me. I have to drive 70 miles and then take a ferry to Orcas Island.
But there is a place called Rosario Resort on Orcas that's nreally
nice and I know my wife would love to spend a couple days there. And
winter ferry fares are cheaper and reservations are easier to get. I
suppose I could take my boat there but it would be over 100 miles and
I'd probably be frozen by the time I got there.
Eric

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 16:18:20 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:48:23 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

wrote:
Eric, a small three blade CPP design isn't that hard to make up if you
have a mill or access to a shop.

Basically you have three blades, these get connected to the hub with a
rotating collar. The collar transmits the thrust to the hub. Inside the
hub you have what amounts to eccentric levers. These connect to the
collar and by simply pushing/pulling the rod you control the angle of
the blades.

The one I had used a 1 1/2" shaft diameter with a 1/2" rod inside it.
The shaft was turned with a simple twin sprocket on the outside. The
adjuster stuck out the front of the shaft with a lever attached.
Steve,
Got any pictures or drawings? I thought about something like that and
looked at buying a used one. Very pricey. But maybe really fun to
build. And I have the tools to make one. But making the blades would
be tough to program.
Eric

The blades are actually easy. Because you can adjust the pitch on the
fly they don't have to be real complex.

Some good info.

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/pro...ary-30695.html

Controllable pitch propeller on you tube shows a bunch of animated rough
ideas.

The interior of the one I had was nothing more than three eccentrics
with pins that engaged the collar.
The collar was round and made of hardened steel.

Basically it looks like a helicopter collective but internal.

If you want to see one up close there are some made for model aircraft
and model boats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT8gz...eature=related
http://aircraft-world.com/prod_datas...0-ESP-BLUE.htm

simple version
http://www.youtube.com/user/juicepop.../2/uTOJEP8jIGA
Thanks for the info Steve. Lots of good stuff like you said. Can the
blades really be that simple and work well? I mean, can flat blades
resembling ping pong paddles really work well? I've read a couple
books about propellers, fixed blade types, for boats, and even used
the info with a pitch block to change slightly the pitch on a bronze
prop in an effort to get it to work better with an antique outboard
motor. But if I can get by with flat paddle shapes then it may be
possible for me to make a CPP that actually works well.
Eric


They can be but they won't be as efficient. What you can do is to make
them curved more like an airfoil.
Take a look at a common fan blade for an idea. You will want to make the
root thicker though, far more stress in water than air.
I should have been clearer. A boat prop is cupped. What I'm thinking
of is a shape like a foil with the curve equal on both sides of the
blade but otherwise flat. Is that correct? Another way to describe it
would be a teardrop cross section. So if the blade was horizontal and
moving through the water it would have equal lift on both sides?
Thanks again Steve for the previous links. Lots of food for thought.
Eric

wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 16:18:20 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:48:23 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

wrote:
Eric, a small three blade CPP design isn't that hard to make up if you
have a mill or access to a shop.

Basically you have three blades, these get connected to the hub with a
rotating collar. The collar transmits the thrust to the hub. Inside the
hub you have what amounts to eccentric levers. These connect to the
collar and by simply pushing/pulling the rod you control the angle of
the blades.

The one I had used a 1 1/2" shaft diameter with a 1/2" rod inside it.
The shaft was turned with a simple twin sprocket on the outside. The
adjuster stuck out the front of the shaft with a lever attached.
Steve,
Got any pictures or drawings? I thought about something like that and
looked at buying a used one. Very pricey. But maybe really fun to
build. And I have the tools to make one. But making the blades would
be tough to program.
Eric
The blades are actually easy. Because you can adjust the pitch on the
fly they don't have to be real complex.

Some good info.

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/pro...ary-30695.html

Controllable pitch propeller on you tube shows a bunch of animated rough
ideas.

The interior of the one I had was nothing more than three eccentrics
with pins that engaged the collar.
The collar was round and made of hardened steel.

Basically it looks like a helicopter collective but internal.

If you want to see one up close there are some made for model aircraft
and model boats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT8gz...eature=related
http://aircraft-world.com/prod_datas...0-ESP-BLUE.htm

simple version
http://www.youtube.com/user/juicepop.../2/uTOJEP8jIGA
Thanks for the info Steve. Lots of good stuff like you said. Can the
blades really be that simple and work well? I mean, can flat blades
resembling ping pong paddles really work well? I've read a couple
books about propellers, fixed blade types, for boats, and even used
the info with a pitch block to change slightly the pitch on a bronze
prop in an effort to get it to work better with an antique outboard
motor. But if I can get by with flat paddle shapes then it may be
possible for me to make a CPP that actually works well.
Eric

They can be but they won't be as efficient. What you can do is to make
them curved more like an airfoil.
Take a look at a common fan blade for an idea. You will want to make the
root thicker though, far more stress in water than air.
I should have been clearer. A boat prop is cupped. What I'm thinking
of is a shape like a foil with the curve equal on both sides of the
blade but otherwise flat. Is that correct? Another way to describe it
would be a teardrop cross section. So if the blade was horizontal and
moving through the water it would have equal lift on both sides?
Thanks again Steve for the previous links. Lots of food for thought.
Eric


Teardrop would work but not very well. Now if you make the front side
curved but the back side flat or even slightly cupped you would get more
thrust. With a CNC or a good template it wouldn't be that difficult to make.

--
Steve W.

SNIP

Teardrop would work but not very well. Now if you make the front side
curved but the back side flat or even slightly cupped you would get more
thrust. With a CNC or a good template it wouldn't be that difficult to make.
So I make the part like you describe above, which I can do, but still
make the blade resemble a ping pong paddle? Or would it be better to
make it look more like a normal prop blade? Since reverse doesn't need
to be very effiecent it seems that might work best. I obviously need
to do some more reading.
Eric

wrote:
SNIP
Teardrop would work but not very well. Now if you make the front side
curved but the back side flat or even slightly cupped you would get more
thrust. With a CNC or a good template it wouldn't be that difficult to make.
So I make the part like you describe above, which I can do, but still
make the blade resemble a ping pong paddle? Or would it be better to
make it look more like a normal prop blade? Since reverse doesn't need
to be very effiecent it seems that might work best. I obviously need
to do some more reading.
Eric

Normal prop blade shape would be better BUT remember that it can change
pitch so you don't have to create a profile that works only at one set
load/speed like a conventional prop.

Here are some different examples. The last one shows a complicated hub
but in the home shop it would be easy to make it simpler.
http://www.maritimejournal.com/featu..._work_together
http://www.brighthub.com/engineering...les/32845.aspx
http://www.nauticexpo.com/prod/amart...14-200147.html
http://www.alfgam.se/cases/kamewa.htm


--
Steve W.

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 18:16:03 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric

Stupid question: Why not leave the boat alone (through hull = leaks =
that sinking feeling...) and just build a davit hoist at the dock and
modify a 4-wheeled hand truck for handling the engine?

You find yourself a really nice 10 HP 4-stroke outboard...

Then either take some steel stock and build a lifting yoke that wraps
around the housing and puts a hoisting eye right over the CG. Or you
pop open the little plastic plug on top of the engine (or take off the
top shroud) and find the factory lifting hole at the balance point,
and buy a lifting eye with the right threads.

Oh, and put a second eye on the side of the motor where you can clip
on a tag-line rope, with the other end attached to the dock - Just in
case the motor takes an unscheduled swim...

Davit hoist on the dock, that's a no-brainer of engineering. But
considering the proximity to water, I'd use a 12V winch and a battery
box so you just hit the "UP" button when you want to go, and you can
trickle charge the battery. Even a solar panel.

120V winches and GFCI's don't get along well, so forget that.

And you take (or make) a 4-wheel dolly with a bracket that looks
suspiciously like a transom, drop the motor on it and wheel it off to
the garage. Could even have space planned in for a plastic trash can
on it for flushing out the motor.

10" pneumatic tire casters if you'll be dealing with grass and dirt,
and humongous flotation tires and a "Radio Flyer" steer axle if you
have to cross sand.

-- Bruce --

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 12:24:59 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 18:16:03 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric

Stupid question: Why not leave the boat alone (through hull = leaks =
that sinking feeling...) and just build a davit hoist at the dock and
modify a 4-wheeled hand truck for handling the engine?

You find yourself a really nice 10 HP 4-stroke outboard...

Then either take some steel stock and build a lifting yoke that wraps
around the housing and puts a hoisting eye right over the CG. Or you
pop open the little plastic plug on top of the engine (or take off the
top shroud) and find the factory lifting hole at the balance point,
and buy a lifting eye with the right threads.

Oh, and put a second eye on the side of the motor where you can clip
on a tag-line rope, with the other end attached to the dock - Just in
case the motor takes an unscheduled swim...

Davit hoist on the dock, that's a no-brainer of engineering. But
considering the proximity to water, I'd use a 12V winch and a battery
box so you just hit the "UP" button when you want to go, and you can
trickle charge the battery. Even a solar panel.

120V winches and GFCI's don't get along well, so forget that.

And you take (or make) a 4-wheel dolly with a bracket that looks
suspiciously like a transom, drop the motor on it and wheel it off to
the garage. Could even have space planned in for a plastic trash can
on it for flushing out the motor.

10" pneumatic tire casters if you'll be dealing with grass and dirt,
and humongous flotation tires and a "Radio Flyer" steer axle if you
have to cross sand.

-- Bruce --
Greetings Bruce,
If only I had a dock. Everywhere I launch the boat is from a ramp. So
I need to get the motor on and off while the boat is on the trailer. I
suppose I could build some sort of crane on the trailer. Takes the fun
out of building an inboard though. And doesn't address the noise. And
I would need to get a smokin' deal on a 4 stroke outboard. But at
least for now I could use the trailer mounted davit to put the Merc
on.
Cheers,
Eric

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 21:52:17 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 17:18:26 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 18:16:03 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket.

Hop in your boat and go find this old friend of mine -- he's
practically your neighbor. Note the photo labeled, "1970 - Cohasset
Harbor, Massachusetts Designed and built a boat with lawn mower engine
for power."

I haven't seen Gary in almost 30 years, but unless he's got cranky in
his old age, he'll talk your ear off about this stuff and give you
lots of practical advice.
http://mtpickettwoodworking.com/gary.htm
Greetings Ned,
Gary is not that close to me but I'll contact him and see if he'll see
me. I have to drive 70 miles and then take a ferry to Orcas Island.
But there is a place called Rosario Resort on Orcas that's nreally
nice and I know my wife would love to spend a couple days there. And
winter ferry fares are cheaper and reservations are easier to get. I
suppose I could take my boat there but it would be over 100 miles and
I'd probably be frozen by the time I got there.
Eric

You must be at the far end of Whidbey Is, Eric. Or I'm completely
wrong and you're not on the island at all. In any case, I'd love to
know if you get in touch with Gary. I worked in a boatyard with him in
the mid 70's, and built one of his skiffs with his help. Your talk of
putting an air cooled 4-stroke in your skiff brought his lawn mower
skiff to mind immediately. I was quite surprised to find a photo of it
online.

--
Ned Simmons

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:39:43 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 21:52:17 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 17:18:26 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 18:16:03 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket.

Hop in your boat and go find this old friend of mine -- he's
practically your neighbor. Note the photo labeled, "1970 - Cohasset
Harbor, Massachusetts Designed and built a boat with lawn mower engine
for power."

I haven't seen Gary in almost 30 years, but unless he's got cranky in
his old age, he'll talk your ear off about this stuff and give you
lots of practical advice.
http://mtpickettwoodworking.com/gary.htm
Greetings Ned,
Gary is not that close to me but I'll contact him and see if he'll see
me. I have to drive 70 miles and then take a ferry to Orcas Island.
But there is a place called Rosario Resort on Orcas that's nreally
nice and I know my wife would love to spend a couple days there. And
winter ferry fares are cheaper and reservations are easier to get. I
suppose I could take my boat there but it would be over 100 miles and
I'd probably be frozen by the time I got there.
Eric

You must be at the far end of Whidbey Is, Eric. Or I'm completely
wrong and you're not on the island at all. In any case, I'd love to
know if you get in touch with Gary. I worked in a boatyard with him in
the mid 70's, and built one of his skiffs with his help. Your talk of
putting an air cooled 4-stroke in your skiff brought his lawn mower
skiff to mind immediately. I was quite surprised to find a photo of it
online.
Greetings Ned,
You're correct about me living on Whidbey Is. I'm on the south end,
about 3 miles from the ferry dock. So to take the ferry to Orcas Is. I
need to drive 60 miles which includes the length of Whidbey, over the
Deception Pass bridge, and into Anacortes on Fidalgo Island. If I get
in touch with your old friend I'll tell him Ned sent me and I'll tell
you about it.
Cheers,
Eric

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:33:58 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 12:24:59 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 18:16:03 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Greetings All,
I have a 12 foot aluminum boat that is rated for a 10 HP max motor.
I do have a 10 hp outboard but bone on bone joints in both wrists
makes it really painful to put the motor on. For years I have been
thinking about various schemes to put in a liquid cooled 4 stroke
inboard. One idea is to use a conventional air cooled flat head motor
that's been modified with a water jacket. I told Harold Vordos about
this idea and he had done it and it worked well. I mean the liquid
cooling conversion. He even had done it with a motor that was very
close to a 7 hp motor that I have and was considering. I have also
thought about using a 125 to 250 cc motorcycle motor. But these are
expensive and rev higher. I have several reasons for wanting to do
this project. Mostly I want a quiet power plant and a liquid cooled
engine inside some sort of housing seems like it would fit the bill. I
want 4 stroke mainly because I'm tired of putting oil in the water. I
also want reverse and am not sure what is the best way, at least for
me. The plan is to use a prop shaft that pierces the bottom of the
boat and a rudder. So the motor would be inboard as would the
reversing gear. Money is tight so don't suggest a Crosley engine. If I
could even find one for sale. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Eric

Stupid question: Why not leave the boat alone (through hull = leaks =
that sinking feeling...) and just build a davit hoist at the dock and
modify a 4-wheeled hand truck for handling the engine?

You find yourself a really nice 10 HP 4-stroke outboard...

Then either take some steel stock and build a lifting yoke that wraps
around the housing and puts a hoisting eye right over the CG. Or you
pop open the little plastic plug on top of the engine (or take off the
top shroud) and find the factory lifting hole at the balance point,
and buy a lifting eye with the right threads.

Oh, and put a second eye on the side of the motor where you can clip
on a tag-line rope, with the other end attached to the dock - Just in
case the motor takes an unscheduled swim...

Davit hoist on the dock, that's a no-brainer of engineering. But
considering the proximity to water, I'd use a 12V winch and a battery
box so you just hit the "UP" button when you want to go, and you can
trickle charge the battery. Even a solar panel.

120V winches and GFCI's don't get along well, so forget that.

And you take (or make) a 4-wheel dolly with a bracket that looks
suspiciously like a transom, drop the motor on it and wheel it off to
the garage. Could even have space planned in for a plastic trash can
on it for flushing out the motor.

10" pneumatic tire casters if you'll be dealing with grass and dirt,
and humongous flotation tires and a "Radio Flyer" steer axle if you
have to cross sand.

-- Bruce --
Greetings Bruce,
If only I had a dock. Everywhere I launch the boat is from a ramp. So
I need to get the motor on and off while the boat is on the trailer. I
suppose I could build some sort of crane on the trailer. Takes the fun
out of building an inboard though. And doesn't address the noise. And
I would need to get a smokin' deal on a 4 stroke outboard. But at
least for now I could use the trailer mounted davit to put the Merc
on.
Cheers,
Eric


Seriously, can't you just leave the motor on the boat and trailer it
that way? Maybe make a hoist/engine stand on wheels for removing the
engine at home if you need to do maintenance on either the engine or
boat? Certainly the blokes with the three 150 H.P. outboards on the
back don't take the engines off to trailer the boat and I used to see
a lot of "fishing boats" with 5 HP outboards being trailered.

Sure, building a spiffy liquid cooled engine and all the fixins would
be fun but I'll bet that either, A. It won't be very serviceable, or
B. it will take a lot longer then you estimate to finish it.

I just had a look at small liquid cooled Komatsu diesels - all in the
115 lb. dry weight range. An air cooled engine initially seems lighter
but adding water cooling, water cooled manifold (although not strictly
necessary) and this and that may raise the weight to about the same as
the diesel. An air cooled engine with a water cooled exhaust with an
add on pump to supply the water would be the lightest and noisiest.
The air cooled engine would also be the hottest but as a liquid cooled
engine is running at about 200 deg. (F) it will burn almost as well as
the air cooled :-)

Nope, my suggestion is to leave the motor on the boat. If you feel it
hangs down too far to trailer then you could fit the sort of
retracting engine mount that they use on small sailboats that use
outboards for auxiliary power - Richard (cavelamb) can probably
describe them if he is reading this thread.

Nope, like the day job, I wouldn't throw the outboard away until I had
actually built, tested, rebuilt and made the revisions for the air
cooled motor design :-)


--
John B.

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 14:12:35 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:33:58 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
Greetings Bruce,
If only I had a dock. Everywhere I launch the boat is from a ramp. So
I need to get the motor on and off while the boat is on the trailer. I
suppose I could build some sort of crane on the trailer. Takes the fun
out of building an inboard though. And doesn't address the noise. And
I would need to get a smokin' deal on a 4 stroke outboard. But at
least for now I could use the trailer mounted davit to put the Merc
on.
Cheers,
Eric


Seriously, can't you just leave the motor on the boat and trailer it
that way? Maybe make a hoist/engine stand on wheels for removing the
engine at home if you need to do maintenance on either the engine or
boat? Certainly the blokes with the three 150 H.P. outboards on the
back don't take the engines off to trailer the boat and I used to see
a lot of "fishing boats" with 5 HP outboards being trailered.

Sure, building a spiffy liquid cooled engine and all the fixins would
be fun but I'll bet that either, A. It won't be very serviceable, or
B. it will take a lot longer then you estimate to finish it.

I just had a look at small liquid cooled Komatsu diesels - all in the
115 lb. dry weight range. An air cooled engine initially seems lighter
but adding water cooling, water cooled manifold (although not strictly
necessary) and this and that may raise the weight to about the same as
the diesel. An air cooled engine with a water cooled exhaust with an
add on pump to supply the water would be the lightest and noisiest.
The air cooled engine would also be the hottest but as a liquid cooled
engine is running at about 200 deg. (F) it will burn almost as well as
the air cooled :-)

Nope, my suggestion is to leave the motor on the boat. If you feel it
hangs down too far to trailer then you could fit the sort of
retracting engine mount that they use on small sailboats that use
outboards for auxiliary power - Richard (cavelamb) can probably
describe them if he is reading this thread.

Nope, like the day job, I wouldn't throw the outboard away until I had
actually built, tested, rebuilt and made the revisions for the air
cooled motor design :-)

Well, there are a few angles to this. Beginning with the boat being
rated for a 10-HP outboard, but you can throw all the ratings out the
window when you start cutting holes for a shaft stuffing box and
through-hull fittings for cooling and return lines, and making an
inboard out of it. How are you at TIG Welding to put the engine
cradle in?

Any hole in the hull is a potential sinking-at-sea leak, and a
homebrew inboard rig has lots of failure modes - and an aluminum hull
only magnifies that, the prop gets badly out of balance and you have
to keep pressing on towards shore, you'll have fatigue cracks
springing up everywhere in the hull...

Even with a life preserver and the typical small-boat survival gear
are you in good enough shape to survive an extended stay in the drink?
Old Farts in bad shape... Not Sayin', Just Sayin'...

KISS - If you want an inboard, build or buy a hull made for it. This
is a Life Safety thing you shouldn't take lightly.

Or go to a local Marine Architect with your plans and drawings and
have him sign off that the plan is sound - or engineer a proper
solution that won't send your little aluminum skiff to the bottom with
all souls on board.

Otherwise I'd go get your dream quiet 4-stroke outboard and leave it
mounted on the boat while you trailer it, it should be just fine.

Or put a Davit Hoist on the rear of the trailer, the Harbor Freight
37555 is perfect, just get a longer piece of pipe to weld it to the
trailer chassis in the corner. Oh, and spritz the jack cylinder and
winch every time with LPS so the rust worms don't get it.

But now that you have the engine off the boat and on a dolly at the
Marina, you have to wrestle the engine in and out of the car trunk or
truck bed... Why?

If you think that rough dirt roads are going to make the weight of a
10-HP outboard wreck the transom and fall off on the road, add extra
bunker rollers/pads at the back of the trailer to support the transom
better.

And you can always get bigger cushier tires for the trailer to cut
down on the shocks - instead of 4.80X8 tires at 60 PSI you get the 10"
wide flotation tires off a Tent Trailer (215-60/8 AKA 18.5-8.50/8) and
drop them to 20 PSI. Swap the fenders, and they'll fit.

-- Bruce --

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:45:28 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 14:12:35 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:33:58 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
Greetings Bruce,
If only I had a dock. Everywhere I launch the boat is from a ramp. So
I need to get the motor on and off while the boat is on the trailer. I
suppose I could build some sort of crane on the trailer. Takes the fun
out of building an inboard though. And doesn't address the noise. And
I would need to get a smokin' deal on a 4 stroke outboard. But at
least for now I could use the trailer mounted davit to put the Merc
on.
Cheers,
Eric


Seriously, can't you just leave the motor on the boat and trailer it
that way? Maybe make a hoist/engine stand on wheels for removing the
engine at home if you need to do maintenance on either the engine or
boat? Certainly the blokes with the three 150 H.P. outboards on the
back don't take the engines off to trailer the boat and I used to see
a lot of "fishing boats" with 5 HP outboards being trailered.

Sure, building a spiffy liquid cooled engine and all the fixins would
be fun but I'll bet that either, A. It won't be very serviceable, or
B. it will take a lot longer then you estimate to finish it.

I just had a look at small liquid cooled Komatsu diesels - all in the
115 lb. dry weight range. An air cooled engine initially seems lighter
but adding water cooling, water cooled manifold (although not strictly
necessary) and this and that may raise the weight to about the same as
the diesel. An air cooled engine with a water cooled exhaust with an
add on pump to supply the water would be the lightest and noisiest.
The air cooled engine would also be the hottest but as a liquid cooled
engine is running at about 200 deg. (F) it will burn almost as well as
the air cooled :-)

Nope, my suggestion is to leave the motor on the boat. If you feel it
hangs down too far to trailer then you could fit the sort of
retracting engine mount that they use on small sailboats that use
outboards for auxiliary power - Richard (cavelamb) can probably
describe them if he is reading this thread.

Nope, like the day job, I wouldn't throw the outboard away until I had
actually built, tested, rebuilt and made the revisions for the air
cooled motor design :-)

Well, there are a few angles to this. Beginning with the boat being
rated for a 10-HP outboard, but you can throw all the ratings out the
window when you start cutting holes for a shaft stuffing box and
through-hull fittings for cooling and return lines, and making an
inboard out of it. How are you at TIG Welding to put the engine
cradle in?

Any hole in the hull is a potential sinking-at-sea leak, and a
homebrew inboard rig has lots of failure modes - and an aluminum hull
only magnifies that, the prop gets badly out of balance and you have
to keep pressing on towards shore, you'll have fatigue cracks
springing up everywhere in the hull...

Even with a life preserver and the typical small-boat survival gear
are you in good enough shape to survive an extended stay in the drink?
Old Farts in bad shape... Not Sayin', Just Sayin'...

KISS - If you want an inboard, build or buy a hull made for it. This
is a Life Safety thing you shouldn't take lightly.

Or go to a local Marine Architect with your plans and drawings and
have him sign off that the plan is sound - or engineer a proper
solution that won't send your little aluminum skiff to the bottom with
all souls on board.

Otherwise I'd go get your dream quiet 4-stroke outboard and leave it
mounted on the boat while you trailer it, it should be just fine.

Or put a Davit Hoist on the rear of the trailer, the Harbor Freight
37555 is perfect, just get a longer piece of pipe to weld it to the
trailer chassis in the corner. Oh, and spritz the jack cylinder and
winch every time with LPS so the rust worms don't get it.

But now that you have the engine off the boat and on a dolly at the
Marina, you have to wrestle the engine in and out of the car trunk or
truck bed... Why?

If you think that rough dirt roads are going to make the weight of a
10-HP outboard wreck the transom and fall off on the road, add extra
bunker rollers/pads at the back of the trailer to support the transom
better.

And you can always get bigger cushier tires for the trailer to cut
down on the shocks - instead of 4.80X8 tires at 60 PSI you get the 10"
wide flotation tires off a Tent Trailer (215-60/8 AKA 18.5-8.50/8) and
drop them to 20 PSI. Swap the fenders, and they'll fit.

-- Bruce --

I put a 4 horse 4 stroke on our 14' jon boat. Trailer has 12" tires.
I leave the motor in place and launch off a ramp. I expect it to
outlast us.

2 hp would have been fine since we're not going to plane and power
past that required for hull speed is wasted. I found the 4 hp lugs
and just generates more wake above 1/2 throttle. Everything seems
much happier at 1/2 throttle or below. To plane my wife and I would
take 15 hp. I don't think a 9.9 would do it. Fuel consumption is
miserly. Our other boat is a 22' Pathfinder with a 150 Yamaha down at
the coast. Not so miserly.

The jon boat's good points are it's cheap and will take a beating. Bad
points are it's not an efficient hull for displacement speeds, and
aluminum doesn't absorb vibration. Maybe I'll build a plywood boat
some day (different forum).

Be aware that current 4 strokes smaller than 8 hp are single cylinder.
Much more vibration than the 3 hp 2 cyl 2 stroke Evinrude I ran 40
years ago.

Pete Keillor

On 10/28/2011 3:28 PM, Pete Keillor wrote:

The jon boat's good points are it's cheap and will take a beating. Bad
points are it's not an efficient hull for displacement speeds, and
aluminum doesn't absorb vibration.

Pete Keillor


Add to that (downsides) having a prop and rudder under the boat would
mean the boat can't be beached without certain damage.

"Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)"
wrote in message
...
Or put a Davit Hoist on the rear of the trailer, the Harbor Freight
37555 is perfect, just get a longer piece of pipe to weld it to the
trailer chassis in the corner. Oh, and spritz the jack cylinder and
winch every time with LPS so the rust worms don't get it.
-- Bruce --

Good idea, as long as you can lift it off to store inside so it isn't
stolen. They are heavy and awkward.

I would consider a lightweight shear leg hoist made from chain link fence
rails that rests on the edges of a seat and is controlled by the trailer
winch. Get the HF 1/4 ton hoist to lift the motor:
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-qua...ist-67144.html
and jack stands tall enough to support the transom when you back the vehicle
up to it to lift the motor out.

So far my 1/4 ton hoist has worked well. The only problem has been getting
the automatic brake to release after overloading it.

jsw

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:45:28 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 14:12:35 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:33:58 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
Greetings Bruce,
If only I had a dock. Everywhere I launch the boat is from a ramp. So
I need to get the motor on and off while the boat is on the trailer. I
suppose I could build some sort of crane on the trailer. Takes the fun
out of building an inboard though. And doesn't address the noise. And
I would need to get a smokin' deal on a 4 stroke outboard. But at
least for now I could use the trailer mounted davit to put the Merc
on.
Cheers,
Eric


Seriously, can't you just leave the motor on the boat and trailer it
that way? Maybe make a hoist/engine stand on wheels for removing the
engine at home if you need to do maintenance on either the engine or
boat? Certainly the blokes with the three 150 H.P. outboards on the
back don't take the engines off to trailer the boat and I used to see
a lot of "fishing boats" with 5 HP outboards being trailered.

Sure, building a spiffy liquid cooled engine and all the fixins would
be fun but I'll bet that either, A. It won't be very serviceable, or
B. it will take a lot longer then you estimate to finish it.

I just had a look at small liquid cooled Komatsu diesels - all in the
115 lb. dry weight range. An air cooled engine initially seems lighter
but adding water cooling, water cooled manifold (although not strictly
necessary) and this and that may raise the weight to about the same as
the diesel. An air cooled engine with a water cooled exhaust with an
add on pump to supply the water would be the lightest and noisiest.
The air cooled engine would also be the hottest but as a liquid cooled
engine is running at about 200 deg. (F) it will burn almost as well as
the air cooled :-)

Nope, my suggestion is to leave the motor on the boat. If you feel it
hangs down too far to trailer then you could fit the sort of
retracting engine mount that they use on small sailboats that use
outboards for auxiliary power - Richard (cavelamb) can probably
describe them if he is reading this thread.

Nope, like the day job, I wouldn't throw the outboard away until I had
actually built, tested, rebuilt and made the revisions for the air
cooled motor design :-)

Well, there are a few angles to this. Beginning with the boat being
rated for a 10-HP outboard, but you can throw all the ratings out the
window when you start cutting holes for a shaft stuffing box and
through-hull fittings for cooling and return lines, and making an
inboard out of it. How are you at TIG Welding to put the engine
cradle in?

Any hole in the hull is a potential sinking-at-sea leak, and a
homebrew inboard rig has lots of failure modes - and an aluminum hull
only magnifies that, the prop gets badly out of balance and you have
to keep pressing on towards shore, you'll have fatigue cracks
springing up everywhere in the hull...

Even with a life preserver and the typical small-boat survival gear
are you in good enough shape to survive an extended stay in the drink?
Old Farts in bad shape... Not Sayin', Just Sayin'...

KISS - If you want an inboard, build or buy a hull made for it. This
is a Life Safety thing you shouldn't take lightly.

Or go to a local Marine Architect with your plans and drawings and
have him sign off that the plan is sound - or engineer a proper
solution that won't send your little aluminum skiff to the bottom with
all souls on board.

Otherwise I'd go get your dream quiet 4-stroke outboard and leave it
mounted on the boat while you trailer it, it should be just fine.

Or put a Davit Hoist on the rear of the trailer, the Harbor Freight
37555 is perfect, just get a longer piece of pipe to weld it to the
trailer chassis in the corner. Oh, and spritz the jack cylinder and
winch every time with LPS so the rust worms don't get it.

But now that you have the engine off the boat and on a dolly at the
Marina, you have to wrestle the engine in and out of the car trunk or
truck bed... Why?

If you think that rough dirt roads are going to make the weight of a
10-HP outboard wreck the transom and fall off on the road, add extra
bunker rollers/pads at the back of the trailer to support the transom
better.

And you can always get bigger cushier tires for the trailer to cut
down on the shocks - instead of 4.80X8 tires at 60 PSI you get the 10"
wide flotation tires off a Tent Trailer (215-60/8 AKA 18.5-8.50/8) and
drop them to 20 PSI. Swap the fenders, and they'll fit.

-- Bruce --
Greetings Bruce,
I thought about all the stuff you mention above. The plan is to build
the drive as a unit that mounts in the boat so that the hull is
stressed where I want it to be. I also though about having the motor
and all mounted in a well just in case it does leak. It may be that
putting a davit on the trailer so I can remove the motor and lay it in
the boat is the best way. I have tried leaving the motor attached to
the transom. Once. By the time I got home the transom was already
damaged. The trailer really does bounce around. So now all I need to
do is find a good deal on a 4 stroke outboard and get rid of the Merc.
Eric