This is the best video I can find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAQyM3ZSY0

Seems like he was coming in from the back side and pulling up and
rolling inverted over the stands and then straight in...

That takes a number of control inputs for a tool jammed in the cables.
Or maybe intermittent and his attention was focused in the cockpit.
Strange.

Checked out one of the TV stations in Vegas and they are intent on the
carnage not the news.


SW

On 9/17/2011 10:06 AM, Sunworshipper wrote:
This is the best video I can find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAQyM3ZSY0

Seems like he was coming in from the back side and pulling up and
rolling inverted over the stands and then straight in...

That takes a number of control inputs for a tool jammed in the cables.
Or maybe intermittent and his attention was focused in the cockpit.
Strange.

Checked out one of the TV stations in Vegas and they are intent on the
carnage not the news.


SW


Or control surface flutter, or a heart attack (he was 74?).

It will be a very short investigation.
An aircraft going in on the nose like that at 400+ MPH, there
isn't much left to inspect.

"Richard" wrote in message
m...
On 9/17/2011 10:06 AM, Sunworshipper wrote:
This is the best video I can find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAQyM3ZSY0

Seems like he was coming in from the back side and pulling up and
rolling inverted over the stands and then straight in...

That takes a number of control inputs for a tool jammed in the cables.
Or maybe intermittent and his attention was focused in the cockpit.
Strange.

Checked out one of the TV stations in Vegas and they are intent on the
carnage not the news.


SW


Or control surface flutter, or a heart attack (he was 74?).

It will be a very short investigation.
An aircraft going in on the nose like that at 400+ MPH, there
isn't much left to inspect.

I have already made a determination, and will bet ten bucks it will be the
fed determination. Pilot error. Whenever they can't prove anything,, the
pilot gets the blame.

Did he have a license to drive a car? Or was he too old? My heart goes out
to his family, but pulling G's like that on a race course is a young man's
game. I expect there will be some changes in the rules, and ensuing
lawsuits.

"WADDYA MEAN 90 IS TOO OLD TO FLY ONE OF THESE 500 HP 500 MPH 65 YEAR OLD
PLANES? I DID IT JUST FINE FOR MANY YEARS."

Condolences to all involved, but I do see a couple of obvious safety
questions ...........

Steve

On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 09:16:50 -0700, Steve B wrote:

"Richard" wrote in message
m...
On 9/17/2011 10:06 AM, Sunworshipper wrote:
This is the best video I can find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAQyM3ZSY0

Seems like he was coming in from the back side and pulling up and
rolling inverted over the stands and then straight in...

That takes a number of control inputs for a tool jammed in the cables.
Or maybe intermittent and his attention was focused in the cockpit.
Strange.

Checked out one of the TV stations in Vegas and they are intent on the
carnage not the news.


SW


Or control surface flutter, or a heart attack (he was 74?).

It will be a very short investigation. An aircraft going in on the nose
like that at 400+ MPH, there isn't much left to inspect.

I have already made a determination, and will bet ten bucks it will be
the fed determination. Pilot error. Whenever they can't prove
anything,, the pilot gets the blame.

Did he have a license to drive a car? Or was he too old? My heart goes
out to his family, but pulling G's like that on a race course is a young
man's game. I expect there will be some changes in the rules, and
ensuing lawsuits.

"WADDYA MEAN 90 IS TOO OLD TO FLY ONE OF THESE 500 HP 500 MPH 65 YEAR
OLD PLANES? I DID IT JUST FINE FOR MANY YEARS."

Condolences to all involved, but I do see a couple of obvious safety
questions ...........

The first, in my libertarian heart, is why should we change anything at
all, when we know that crashes happen at airshows?


--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:06:34 -0500, Sunworshipper wrote:

This is the best video I can find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAQyM3ZSY0

Seems like he was coming in from the back side and pulling up and
rolling inverted over the stands and then straight in...

That takes a number of control inputs for a tool jammed in the cables.
Or maybe intermittent and his attention was focused in the cockpit.
Strange.

Checked out one of the TV stations in Vegas and they are intent on the
carnage not the news.

Perhaps an object bouncing around someplace, or a control surface not
working and he's trying to figure out what the @#$% to do to get out of
the situation.

From your description, a jammed aileron plus 'up' from the pilot would
pretty much do it.

Or a seizure, or a heart attack.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 09:16:50 -0700, Steve B wrote:

"Richard" wrote in message
m...
On 9/17/2011 10:06 AM, Sunworshipper wrote:
This is the best video I can find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAQyM3ZSY0

Seems like he was coming in from the back side and pulling up and
rolling inverted over the stands and then straight in...

That takes a number of control inputs for a tool jammed in the cables.
Or maybe intermittent and his attention was focused in the cockpit.
Strange.

Checked out one of the TV stations in Vegas and they are intent on the
carnage not the news.


SW


Or control surface flutter, or a heart attack (he was 74?).

It will be a very short investigation. An aircraft going in on the nose
like that at 400+ MPH, there isn't much left to inspect.

I have already made a determination, and will bet ten bucks it will be
the fed determination. Pilot error. Whenever they can't prove
anything,, the pilot gets the blame.

Did he have a license to drive a car? Or was he too old? My heart goes
out to his family, but pulling G's like that on a race course is a young
man's game. I expect there will be some changes in the rules, and
ensuing lawsuits.

"WADDYA MEAN 90 IS TOO OLD TO FLY ONE OF THESE 500 HP 500 MPH 65 YEAR
OLD PLANES? I DID IT JUST FINE FOR MANY YEARS."

Condolences to all involved, but I do see a couple of obvious safety
questions ...........

The first, in my libertarian heart, is why should we change anything at
all, when we know that crashes happen at airshows?


--
Tim Wescott

First, I am a life long registered libertarian.

WE should do nothing. The federal government has some jurisdiction because
it involves aircraft. The states would have some jurisdictions over public
events. Air ports, and landowners where special events have some
responsibility, if not jurisdiction to set rules regarding special events
held on their properties. Insurance companies have the right to set
parameters on whatever they insure, be it a boat or a special event.

I see lawsuits 90 ways to Sunday in this aftermath, the first being filed
any minute now.

I went to one air race at Boulder City, Nevada. It was put on by the same
people that put on the Reno races. There were P-51's racing. The course
was over multiple properties, BLM being one of them. It was one of the most
boring afternoons of my life after five minutes.

We do not need to get into legislation and regulations as deep as we see the
governments have gotten into them, but we do at least have to protect the
public AS BEST WE CAN, and after that, **** and acts of God happen. And
people who attend public events do so at (mostly) their own risk, that is,
unless they are injured, then disclaimers be damned, bring on the ambulance
chasers.

My prayers are with those hurting today, and also hope that a little good
comes from this.

Steve

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:06:34 -0500, Sunworshipper wrote:

This is the best video I can find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAQyM3ZSY0

Seems like he was coming in from the back side and pulling up and
rolling inverted over the stands and then straight in...

That takes a number of control inputs for a tool jammed in the cables.
Or maybe intermittent and his attention was focused in the cockpit.
Strange.

Checked out one of the TV stations in Vegas and they are intent on the
carnage not the news.

Perhaps an object bouncing around someplace, or a control surface not
working and he's trying to figure out what the @#$% to do to get out of
the situation.

From your description, a jammed aileron plus 'up' from the pilot would
pretty much do it.

Or a seizure, or a heart attack.

--
Tim Wescott

I doubt they find any human remains large enough to make a determination
from, as in the case of cardio related failure. If I read correctly, he
flew straight into concrete, not landscaping.

Steve

On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:50:17 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 9/17/2011 10:06 AM, Sunworshipper wrote:
This is the best video I can find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAQyM3ZSY0

Seems like he was coming in from the back side and pulling up and
rolling inverted over the stands and then straight in...

That takes a number of control inputs for a tool jammed in the cables.
Or maybe intermittent and his attention was focused in the cockpit.
Strange.

Checked out one of the TV stations in Vegas and they are intent on the
carnage not the news.


SW


Or control surface flutter, or a heart attack (he was 74?).

It will be a very short investigation.
An aircraft going in on the nose like that at 400+ MPH, there
isn't much left to inspect.



I suppose most are older to afford a toy like that. I was checking
around and ran into one in the Huff where someone saw a trim tab fly
off. Unsure what to believe after seeing this other story, what gives
here?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_967466.html


http://www.hooverdambypass.org/


SW

Sunworshipper wrote:

This is the best video I can find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAQyM3ZSY0

Seems like he was coming in from the back side and pulling up and
rolling inverted over the stands and then straight in...

That takes a number of control inputs for a tool jammed in the cables.
Or maybe intermittent and his attention was focused in the cockpit.
Strange.

Checked out one of the TV stations in Vegas and they are intent on the
carnage not the news.


He was a local pilot, and his group from the 'Leeward Air Ranch' flew
the 'Missing Man Formation' on Veterans Day at the Marion County
Veteran's Park in their WW II planes.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 13:20:43 -0500, Sunworshipper SW@GWNTUNDRA
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:50:17 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 9/17/2011 10:06 AM, Sunworshipper wrote:
This is the best video I can find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAQyM3ZSY0

Seems like he was coming in from the back side and pulling up and
rolling inverted over the stands and then straight in...

That takes a number of control inputs for a tool jammed in the cables.
Or maybe intermittent and his attention was focused in the cockpit.
Strange.

Checked out one of the TV stations in Vegas and they are intent on the
carnage not the news.


SW


Or control surface flutter, or a heart attack (he was 74?).

It will be a very short investigation.
An aircraft going in on the nose like that at 400+ MPH, there
isn't much left to inspect.



I suppose most are older to afford a toy like that. I was checking
around and ran into one in the Huff where someone saw a trim tab fly
off. Unsure what to believe after seeing this other story, what gives
here?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_967466.html

Y'know, if the federal and state gov'ts would simply bypass the
requirement for any entity to pay the prevailing wages (Highest known
wages + bennies ever paid in any city in the state/country, usually
union wages) the costs to repair and renew our roads would drop
drastically.

A more efficient inspection team might be in order, too. I've heard of
monthlong delays in road building because some inspector was off in
another state looking at something else. All the delays allow prices
to increase and up the cost of every project.

--
Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds
are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her
tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the
existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
-- Thomas Jefferson

On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 14:27:59 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 13:20:43 -0500, Sunworshipper SW@GWNTUNDRA
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:50:17 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 9/17/2011 10:06 AM, Sunworshipper wrote:
This is the best video I can find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAQyM3ZSY0

Seems like he was coming in from the back side and pulling up and
rolling inverted over the stands and then straight in...

That takes a number of control inputs for a tool jammed in the cables.
Or maybe intermittent and his attention was focused in the cockpit.
Strange.

Checked out one of the TV stations in Vegas and they are intent on the
carnage not the news.


SW


Or control surface flutter, or a heart attack (he was 74?).

It will be a very short investigation.
An aircraft going in on the nose like that at 400+ MPH, there
isn't much left to inspect.



I suppose most are older to afford a toy like that. I was checking
around and ran into one in the Huff where someone saw a trim tab fly
off. Unsure what to believe after seeing this other story, what gives
here?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_967466.html

Y'know, if the federal and state gov'ts would simply bypass the
requirement for any entity to pay the prevailing wages (Highest known
wages + bennies ever paid in any city in the state/country, usually
union wages) the costs to repair and renew our roads would drop
drastically.

A more efficient inspection team might be in order, too. I've heard of
monthlong delays in road building because some inspector was off in
another state looking at something else. All the delays allow prices
to increase and up the cost of every project.



Look again. The article says in the second paragraph that they are
looking for someone to build this by pass. The bypass was built as of
Nov. last year. What are they doing making stories up?


SW

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Sunworshipper wrote:
This is the best video I can find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAQyM3ZSY0

Seems like he was coming in from the back side and pulling up and
rolling inverted over the stands and then straight in...

That takes a number of control inputs for a tool jammed in the cables.
Or maybe intermittent and his attention was focused in the cockpit.
Strange.

Checked out one of the TV stations in Vegas and they are intent on the
carnage not the news.


He was a local pilot, and his group from the 'Leeward Air Ranch' flew
the 'Missing Man Formation' on Veterans Day at the Marion County
Veteran's Park in their WW II planes.



There is also a story about how he had just finished a LOT of
modifications to the aircraft to make it faster this year.
Cutting the wings down, cutting the ailerons from 60" down to 32" and
several other modifications that were not even finished when they were
in Reno. Maybe all of that should have been finished and tested before
they flew?

Jimmy was from Ocala Florida and flew all over the US. He is one of the
few who own flyable P-51s. Not many left around.

--
Steve W.

From Cy of the Navion group...


[Navion eGroup] Reno crash3

I didnt race that heat because plane broke earlier that morning. I
watched the whole event.

Trim tab came off causing plane pitch violently blacking pilot out
instantly. He didn't know what hit him. If you see the picture before
impact you will see tail wheel it. That means unlock broke at or above
8 g s.

On 9/18/2011 5:11 AM, Steve W. wrote:


There is also a story about how he had just finished a LOT of
modifications to the aircraft to make it faster this year.
Cutting the wings down, cutting the ailerons from 60" down to 32" and
several other modifications that were not even finished when they were
in Reno. Maybe all of that should have been finished and tested before
they flew?

Jimmy was from Ocala Florida and flew all over the US. He is one of the
few who own flyable P-51s. Not many left around.


Don't get too excited.
ALL of the Reno Unlimited racers are like that.
It's a brutal class.
They race under a Restricted certificate.
It's not likely you will ever see them flying anywhere else.

And for the boob that questioned his age?
They ALL have Class One flight physicals - just like airline pilots.
That trumps your drivers license question by ten miles.


Sad...

But it does happen.



Richard

"Steve W." wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Sunworshipper wrote:
This is the best video I can find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAQyM3ZSY0

Seems like he was coming in from the back side and pulling up and
rolling inverted over the stands and then straight in...

That takes a number of control inputs for a tool jammed in the cables.
Or maybe intermittent and his attention was focused in the cockpit.
Strange.

Checked out one of the TV stations in Vegas and they are intent on the
carnage not the news.


He was a local pilot, and his group from the 'Leeward Air Ranch' flew
the 'Missing Man Formation' on Veterans Day at the Marion County
Veteran's Park in their WW II planes.



There is also a story about how he had just finished a LOT of
modifications to the aircraft to make it faster this year.
Cutting the wings down, cutting the ailerons from 60" down to 32" and
several other modifications that were not even finished when they were
in Reno. Maybe all of that should have been finished and tested before
they flew?

Jimmy was from Ocala Florida and flew all over the US. He is one of the
few who own flyable P-51s. Not many left around.


I know where he's from. I pass the 'Leeward Air Ranch' fairly often.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

"Richard" wrote


And for the boob that questioned his age?
They ALL have Class One flight physicals - just like airline pilots.
That trumps your drivers license question by ten miles.


Sad...

But it does happen.



Richard

I'm the boob that questioned his age. There are lots of people who get
driver's licenses who shouldn't be driving. But they can be good for the
ten minutes it takes to pass the test. Then they get unleashed on the real
world.

I do not know what it takes to pass a physical for a pilot's license. Is
there a stress test on a treadmill? Are there pushups? Pullups? Things
like that that simulate what a pilot goes through in a 500 mph race plane on
a tight course? I think not. The examination has little to do with what
the license entitles the pilot to do in this case. For others who just sit
in a chair and doze off during autopilot, and move levers and dials every
few hours, it may be sufficient.

This man was 74 years old, and in apparent good health. That does not
automatically qualify him for a license where lots of people are put at
risk. It is no evaluation of how he can or will perform under extreme
stress and exertion. It does not test his susceptibility to passing out
under G pressure at his age.

What's the worst thing that could happen? He could have an "incident" and
pass out?

I believe the facts speak pretty well for themselves.

If I knew there was going to be a 74 year old pilot in that fast and furious
of a plane race, I'd choose to watch the reruns on TV. I wouldn't go any
closer than five miles.

Lastly, there is NO comparison between an examination for a CLASS ONE
pilot's license and a driver's license. NONE, NONE, NONE! That is an
absurd point. Big deal. The pilot is medically within parameters. How
will he do in a strenuous race? Apparently ..................

Steve

On 9/18/2011 3:30 AM, Richard wrote:

From Cy of the Navion group...

Trim tab came off causing plane pitch violently blacking pilot out
instantly. He didn't know what hit him. If you see the picture before
impact you will see tail wheel it. That means unlock broke at or above
8 g s.

Have to respect the input of an actual racer. But I wonder about him
blacking out. As the plane rolls up on edge, you can see the wings
waggle a bit. That would be aileron input, suggesting to me in the scant
moments he had left, he was trying to work out how to regain control. I
personally think he was conscious to the last, and realizing he was
likely done for, did what little he could to avoid as many people as
possible.

I noticed the tail wheel extended and that nobody has mentioned it
outside of your post. I've not seen that mechanism up close, but wonder
if 8g would be sufficient to cause failure of the lock?

One of my customers was there, fortunately this year he wasn't in the
box seats, but in past races has sat right in the general area impacted.
I would have been there, but too busy with work right now to get away.

It's a very sad day for the aviation community, but I hope this does not
bring an end to the races.


Jon

On 9/18/2011 11:58 AM, Jon Anderson wrote:
On 9/18/2011 3:30 AM, Richard wrote:

From Cy of the Navion group...

Trim tab came off causing plane pitch violently blacking pilot out
instantly. He didn't know what hit him. If you see the picture before
impact you will see tail wheel it. That means unlock broke at or above
8 g s.

Have to respect the input of an actual racer. But I wonder about him
blacking out. As the plane rolls up on edge, you can see the wings
waggle a bit. That would be aileron input, suggesting to me in the scant
moments he had left, he was trying to work out how to regain control. I
personally think he was conscious to the last, and realizing he was
likely done for, did what little he could to avoid as many people as
possible.

I doubt we will ever really know much more about it.
Not much left.

I've taken 9 Gs before - in a G suit and with a smooth onset so I had
time to get stable and grunt. At that load factor I weigh nearly 2000
pounds! It hurts! During and after.

Without the garters and no warning, and as suddenly as that seems to
come on, my guess is the guy got jammed down in the cockpit and couldn't
get back up. No head showing in several of those pics.
If he got slammed down hard against the stick that might be why the
pitch over and nose dive.



I noticed the tail wheel extended and that nobody has mentioned it
outside of your post. I've not seen that mechanism up close, but wonder
if 8g would be sufficient to cause failure of the lock?

That's what I've been told. I can't swear either way.
But the FAA / NTSB will know.

One of my customers was there, fortunately this year he wasn't in the
box seats, but in past races has sat right in the general area impacted.
I would have been there, but too busy with work right now to get away.

It's a very sad day for the aviation community, but I hope this does not
bring an end to the races.


Jon

Yes, it was a sad day.
But it could have been a whole lot worse.

If he was trying to avoid the crowd, he did the right thing -
all the way to the end.
It may have been the best flying he ever did...

On 9/18/2011 11:18 AM, Steve B wrote:

I'm the boob that questioned his age.

Sorry Steve. I didn't mean to be ugly to you.

On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 06:11:00 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Sunworshipper wrote:
This is the best video I can find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAQyM3ZSY0

Seems like he was coming in from the back side and pulling up and
rolling inverted over the stands and then straight in...

That takes a number of control inputs for a tool jammed in the cables.
Or maybe intermittent and his attention was focused in the cockpit.
Strange.

Checked out one of the TV stations in Vegas and they are intent on the
carnage not the news.


He was a local pilot, and his group from the 'Leeward Air Ranch' flew
the 'Missing Man Formation' on Veterans Day at the Marion County
Veteran's Park in their WW II planes.



There is also a story about how he had just finished a LOT of
modifications to the aircraft to make it faster this year.
Cutting the wings down, cutting the ailerons from 60" down to 32" and
several other modifications that were not even finished when they were
in Reno. Maybe all of that should have been finished and tested before
they flew?

Jimmy was from Ocala Florida and flew all over the US. He is one of the
few who own flyable P-51s. Not many left around.
One less now.

"Richard" wrote in message
...
On 9/18/2011 11:18 AM, Steve B wrote:

I'm the boob that questioned his age.

Sorry Steve. I didn't mean to be ugly to you.

Apology accepted. I know you are a reasonable man.

Steve

On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 09:18:29 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


If I knew there was going to be a 74 year old pilot in that fast and furious
of a plane race, I'd choose to watch the reruns on TV. I wouldn't go any
closer than five miles.

You think he is the oldest race pilot?

Think again.

Gunner

"In the history of mankind, there have always been men and women who's goal
in life is to take down nations. We have just elected such a man to run our
country." - David Lloyyd (2008)

On 9/18/2011 2:05 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 09:18:29 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


If I knew there was going to be a 74 year old pilot in that fast and furious
of a plane race, I'd choose to watch the reruns on TV. I wouldn't go any
closer than five miles.

You think he is the oldest race pilot?

Think again.

Gunner

"In the history of mankind, there have always been men and women who's goal
in life is to take down nations. We have just elected such a man to run our
country." - David Lloyyd (2008)

If you think that Was the first Air Race pilot to have an heart attack
(if true), think again.

There was a racer (1974 or before) that pulled out of race, went over
the stands, and landed. He took a cab into Reno and checked into a
hospital under an assumed name. That's where he died. It took a couple
of weeks to figure out where the pilot was.

Bill K7NOM
1974 was the last time I worked for Reno Air races

Coming down at that speed and G-force would cause a heart attack
even in the best. He was likely dead before he hit the ground.
Didn't wear a G-suit and was a Senior man.

Martin

On 9/18/2011 11:58 AM, Jon Anderson wrote:
On 9/18/2011 3:30 AM, Richard wrote:

From Cy of the Navion group...

Trim tab came off causing plane pitch violently blacking pilot out
instantly. He didn't know what hit him. If you see the picture before
impact you will see tail wheel it. That means unlock broke at or above
8 g s.

Have to respect the input of an actual racer. But I wonder about him
blacking out. As the plane rolls up on edge, you can see the wings
waggle a bit. That would be aileron input, suggesting to me in the scant
moments he had left, he was trying to work out how to regain control. I
personally think he was conscious to the last, and realizing he was
likely done for, did what little he could to avoid as many people as
possible.

I noticed the tail wheel extended and that nobody has mentioned it
outside of your post. I've not seen that mechanism up close, but wonder
if 8g would be sufficient to cause failure of the lock?

One of my customers was there, fortunately this year he wasn't in the
box seats, but in past races has sat right in the general area impacted.
I would have been there, but too busy with work right now to get away.

It's a very sad day for the aviation community, but I hope this does not
bring an end to the races.


Jon

On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 21:21:58 -0500, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

Coming down at that speed and G-force would cause a heart attack
even in the best. He was likely dead before he hit the ground.
Didn't wear a G-suit and was a Senior man.

Martin

On 9/18/2011 11:58 AM, Jon Anderson wrote:
On 9/18/2011 3:30 AM, Richard wrote:

From Cy of the Navion group...

Trim tab came off causing plane pitch violently blacking pilot out
instantly. He didn't know what hit him. If you see the picture before
impact you will see tail wheel it. That means unlock broke at or above
8 g s.

Have to respect the input of an actual racer. But I wonder about him
blacking out. As the plane rolls up on edge, you can see the wings
waggle a bit. That would be aileron input, suggesting to me in the scant
moments he had left, he was trying to work out how to regain control. I
personally think he was conscious to the last, and realizing he was
likely done for, did what little he could to avoid as many people as
possible.

I noticed the tail wheel extended and that nobody has mentioned it
outside of your post. I've not seen that mechanism up close, but wonder
if 8g would be sufficient to cause failure of the lock?

One of my customers was there, fortunately this year he wasn't in the
box seats, but in past races has sat right in the general area impacted.
I would have been there, but too busy with work right now to get away.

It's a very sad day for the aviation community, but I hope this does not
bring an end to the races.


Jon
Do we KNOW he wasn't wearing a G-Suit???? A friend who races - but
not Reno style, does when he races - about half the speed of the Reno
boys.

On 9/19/2011 3:50 PM, wrote:

Do we KNOW he wasn't wearing a G-Suit???? A friend who races - but
not Reno style, does when he races - about half the speed of the Reno
boys.


If the thing went 20+ Gs positive, like the guys are suggesting, a G
suit wouldn't help at all.

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 16:03:38 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 9/19/2011 3:50 PM, wrote:

Do we KNOW he wasn't wearing a G-Suit???? A friend who races - but
not Reno style, does when he races - about half the speed of the Reno
boys.


If the thing went 20+ Gs positive, like the guys are suggesting, a G
suit wouldn't help at all.

If it went 20+...its interesting the wings stayed on.

It obviously went 8+....since the tail wheel deployed

Gunner

"In the history of mankind, there have always been men and women who's goal
in life is to take down nations. We have just elected such a man to run our
country." - David Lloyyd (2008)