It is in good shape, but it's missing the hub and three handles, and the
chuck key. The price was right, though.

This looks like it, but there is no model number on the drill:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cameron-164-a.html

These are the missing parts:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...07623_orig.jpg
http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...ig.jpg?199x324

I also bought 4, 3' 5/8" drill rods for $3.51 each, at a liquidator
that's going out of business.

I bought what looks like another precision drill, or mini milling
machine. I haven't been able to identify it, but the price was right.


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

On 2011-07-04, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

It is in good shape, but it's missing the hub and three handles, and the
chuck key. The price was right, though.

This looks like it, but there is no model number on the drill:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cameron-164-a.html

Congratulations! This is a particularly nice machine. I have
had one since the early 1970s, where I bought it almost new. A
representative for a local machine tool company came by our lab with a
brand new one to demonstrate for several groups within the lab. I was
the first, and helped him unpack it and set it up. (This was prior to
the clear protective cover, but had the dial indicator and holder as
standard at the time.) And -- the supplied dial indicator was a 0-1"
one, which matches the travel of the head, so the worry about the stops
being set to prevent hitting the stops need not apply.

Anyway -- I was quite impressed with it, and asked him how much
he could sell it to me for after demonstrating it around the lab. His
price was $150.00, which I gladly paid. (I also bought one for our
group, and at least one other was sold that I know of.)

These are the missing parts:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...07623_orig.jpg
http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...ig.jpg?199x324

Hmm ... the handles should be easy enough to make (and you can
buy the ball ends from MSC among other places), but the hub will be a
bit more tricky -- matching the angle which the original had. Can you
get replacement parts from Cameron? (I know that their prices have gone
through the roof since I got mine. :-)

The motor on mine does not use the black thumbscrew from the
left to lock its position -- but rather a setscrew. The post from the
motor which slides into the headstock casting is hinged instead, with a
thumbscrew to lock the hinge. So to change belt positions, you loosen
the thumbscrew, hinge the motor (bottom to the rear, pulley towards the
column) to give slack to change the belts.

The chuck can be replaced with an Albrecht 0-1/8" (0-3mm) with a
J0 taper, and mine actually came with such a chuck. This is a perfect
chuck for the machine.

Mine has a switch on the bottom rear of the motor which has
three positions -- off, a full speed, and a slower speed (resistor in
series). IIRC, the original switch was center off, but it eventually
burned up, and I replaced it with one which I could set up as
off-slow-fast.

But now, I keep it plugged into a speed controller made for a
Dremel, which gives me more reasonable control of speeds.

I also bought 4, 3' 5/8" drill rods for $3.51 each, at a liquidator
that's going out of business.

Hmm ... a bit big for making the feed arms. Good price,
though. :-)

I bought what looks like another precision drill, or mini milling
machine. I haven't been able to identify it, but the price was right.


O.K.

Can you put up an image of the other precision drill somewhere?
Perhaps in the dropbox if you don't have a web site of your own? That
is at http://www.metalworking.com. Click on the bar to give directions
on using the dropbox, then once you have the image(s) there, post the
URL for the dropbox and the name of the image files.

Best of luck with the Cameron.
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-04, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

It is in good shape, but it's missing the hub and three handles, and the
chuck key. The price was right, though.

This looks like it, but there is no model number on the drill:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cameron-164-a.html

Congratulations! This is a particularly nice machine. I have
had one since the early 1970s, where I bought it almost new. A
representative for a local machine tool company came by our lab with a
brand new one to demonstrate for several groups within the lab. I was
the first, and helped him unpack it and set it up. (This was prior to
the clear protective cover, but had the dial indicator and holder as
standard at the time.) And -- the supplied dial indicator was a 0-1"
one, which matches the travel of the head, so the worry about the stops
being set to prevent hitting the stops need not apply.

Anyway -- I was quite impressed with it, and asked him how much
he could sell it to me for after demonstrating it around the lab. His
price was $150.00, which I gladly paid. (I also bought one for our
group, and at least one other was sold that I know of.)

These are the missing parts:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...07623_orig.jpg
http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...ig.jpg?199x324

Hmm ... the handles should be easy enough to make (and you can
buy the ball ends from MSC among other places), but the hub will be a
bit more tricky -- matching the angle which the original had. Can you
get replacement parts from Cameron? (I know that their prices have gone
through the roof since I got mine. :-)


They list them on the website, but I'm sure they'll cost me more than
the drill did.

MD 109-7 Spoked Feed Wheel Hub
MD 110-7 Feed Wheel Lever (Threaded)
MD 111-7 Feed Wheel Lever (Grooved)

But there are no prices posted.


The motor on mine does not use the black thumbscrew from the
left to lock its position -- but rather a setscrew. The post from the
motor which slides into the headstock casting is hinged instead, with a
thumbscrew to lock the hinge. So to change belt positions, you loosen
the thumbscrew, hinge the motor (bottom to the rear, pulley towards the
column) to give slack to change the belts.

The chuck can be replaced with an Albrecht 0-1/8" (0-3mm) with a
J0 taper, and mine actually came with such a chuck. This is a perfect
chuck for the machine.

Mine has a switch on the bottom rear of the motor which has
three positions -- off, a full speed, and a slower speed (resistor in
series). IIRC, the original switch was center off, but it eventually
burned up, and I replaced it with one which I could set up as
off-slow-fast.

But now, I keep it plugged into a speed controller made for a
Dremel, which gives me more reasonable control of speeds.

I also bought 4, 3' 5/8" drill rods for $3.51 each, at a liquidator
that's going out of business.

Hmm ... a bit big for making the feed arms. Good price,
though. :-)


They make nice axles for hand truck tires.


I bought what looks like another precision drill, or mini milling
machine. I haven't been able to identify it, but the price was right.


O.K.

Can you put up an image of the other precision drill somewhere?
Perhaps in the dropbox if you don't have a web site of your own? That
is at http://www.metalworking.com. Click on the bar to give directions
on using the dropbox, then once you have the image(s) there, post the
URL for the dropbox and the name of the image files.


I'll try to take some photos and post them in the next few days.


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

On 4 Jul 2011 03:13:40 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:


The chuck can be replaced with an Albrecht 0-1/8" (0-3mm) with a
J0 taper, and mine actually came with such a chuck. This is a perfect
chuck for the machine.


I may have several of these btw....

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-04, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

It is in good shape, but it's missing the hub and three handles, and the
chuck key. The price was right, though.

This looks like it, but there is no model number on the drill:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cameron-164-a.html

Congratulations! This is a particularly nice machine. I have
had one since the early 1970s, where I bought it almost new. A
representative for a local machine tool company came by our lab with a
brand new one to demonstrate for several groups within the lab. I was
the first, and helped him unpack it and set it up. (This was prior to
the clear protective cover, but had the dial indicator and holder as
standard at the time.) And -- the supplied dial indicator was a 0-1"
one, which matches the travel of the head, so the worry about the stops
being set to prevent hitting the stops need not apply.

Anyway -- I was quite impressed with it, and asked him how much
he could sell it to me for after demonstrating it around the lab. His
price was $150.00, which I gladly paid. (I also bought one for our
group, and at least one other was sold that I know of.)

These are the missing parts:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...07623_orig.jpg
http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...ig.jpg?199x324

Hmm ... the handles should be easy enough to make (and you can
buy the ball ends from MSC among other places), but the hub will be a
bit more tricky -- matching the angle which the original had. Can you
get replacement parts from Cameron? (I know that their prices have gone
through the roof since I got mine. :-)

The motor on mine does not use the black thumbscrew from the
left to lock its position -- but rather a setscrew. The post from the
motor which slides into the headstock casting is hinged instead, with a
thumbscrew to lock the hinge. So to change belt positions, you loosen
the thumbscrew, hinge the motor (bottom to the rear, pulley towards the
column) to give slack to change the belts.

The chuck can be replaced with an Albrecht 0-1/8" (0-3mm) with a
J0 taper, and mine actually came with such a chuck. This is a perfect
chuck for the machine.

Mine has a switch on the bottom rear of the motor which has
three positions -- off, a full speed, and a slower speed (resistor in
series). IIRC, the original switch was center off, but it eventually
burned up, and I replaced it with one which I could set up as
off-slow-fast.

But now, I keep it plugged into a speed controller made for a
Dremel, which gives me more reasonable control of speeds.

I also bought 4, 3' 5/8" drill rods for $3.51 each, at a liquidator
that's going out of business.

Hmm ... a bit big for making the feed arms. Good price,
though. :-)

I bought what looks like another precision drill, or mini milling
machine. I haven't been able to identify it, but the price was right.


O.K.

Can you put up an image of the other precision drill somewhere?
Perhaps in the dropbox if you don't have a web site of your own? That
is at http://www.metalworking.com. Click on the bar to give directions
on using the dropbox, then once you have the image(s) there, post the
URL for the dropbox and the name of the image files.


It looks more like a hobby mill. It is buit on an X-Y table with
T-slots It says Emco on the belt guard. I tried to take some photos,
but my camrea refused to work, even with new batteries.


Best of luck with the Cameron.


Thanks. I'd hate to think that I wasted the $20.


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:


It is in good shape, but it's missing the hub and three handles, and the
chuck key. The price was right, though.

This looks like it, but there is no model number on the drill:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cameron-164-a.html


Very nice. A man of your ingenuity should be able to make the parts you need.

Wes

On 2011-07-04, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 4 Jul 2011 03:13:40 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:


The chuck can be replaced with an Albrecht 0-1/8" (0-3mm) with a
J0 taper, and mine actually came with such a chuck. This is a perfect
chuck for the machine.


I may have several of these btw....

J0 or J1. I may have mis-remembered.

O.K. I just checked -- J1. Same for that, the arbor for my
Compact-5/CNC lathe, and for the ball bearing disc sensitive drill
attachment which fits into a 1/2" chuck on a regular drill press.

IIRC, the J0 is for that or an even smaller (1/16" perhaps"
Albrecht chuck.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2011-07-04, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-04, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

It is in good shape, but it's missing the hub and three handles, and the
chuck key. The price was right, though.

[ ... ]

Mine has a switch on the bottom rear of the motor which has
three positions -- off, a full speed, and a slower speed (resistor in
series). IIRC, the original switch was center off, but it eventually
burned up, and I replaced it with one which I could set up as
off-slow-fast.

Does yours have that three-position switch? Maybe not, if it is
one of those sold with the solid state speed controllers.

But now, I keep it plugged into a speed controller made for a
Dremel, which gives me more reasonable control of speeds.

[ ... ]

Can you put up an image of the other precision drill somewhere?
Perhaps in the dropbox if you don't have a web site of your own? That
is at http://www.metalworking.com. Click on the bar to give directions
on using the dropbox, then once you have the image(s) there, post the
URL for the dropbox and the name of the image files.


It looks more like a hobby mill. It is buit on an X-Y table with
T-slots It says Emco on the belt guard. I tried to take some photos,
but my camrea refused to work, even with new batteries.

O.K. Is it possible that the previous batteries leaked and
corroded the terminals in the camera?

As for the device which is resisting being photographed -- you
say Emco (not Enco?) In that case, based on what description you gave,
I think that I know what it is.

Let me describe it (from memory) and you check against that:

1) X-Y base possibly marked "Made in Spain".

2) Column held to back of base by an adaptor (a piece of metal
painted a light orange (though it could be other colors, I
guess)).

3) Column is round, reduced in diameter at the bottom and clamped
in the adaptor.

4) Head is clamped to the column by another adaptor, which
provides a tilting adjustment to the head.

5) A finned motor sticking up from the left of the head, with
two metal bodied capacitors beside it.

6) A lever to move the quill down a fairly short distance, and
(perhaps) an additional feature which engages a gear around the
feed shaft and is turned by an Allen wrench at the end. Loosen
a screw and tilt it to disengage it for faster feed.

7) A hinged door which gives access to the belt (three steps), and
you need to loosen another screw to allow the motor to move to
slack the belt to change steps.

8) Spindle nose is a M14x1 thread -- not hollow at all.

9) Various things screw onto that. I've got (came with mine)
A drill chuck (0-6mm(1/4")).
A collet holder (ER-25 series.
A fly cutter.

And -- I made an adaptor to put a small boring head on it as
well.

Now -- the column is too skinny for the job, and what I did with
mine is to drill and tap a hole in the top end (metric, of course, to
match the rest of the machine), and make a triangle of aluminum angle
"iron", with one apex over the top of the column, and the other two
against the wall where the back side is bolted to give more rigidity.

Note that the tilt pivot for the head is not clamped strongly
enough, and if a cutter bites in, it will tilt the head, even when you
don't want that. :-)

The speeds really don't get slow enough for my taste.

But -- it still does useful things.


Best of luck with the Cameron.


Thanks. I'd hate to think that I wasted the $20.

Somehow -- I don't think so.

Yes -- the parts from Cameron will likely cost more than you
paid for the machine, but be well worth it.

If they turn out to be too expensive, I could pull mine apart
and measure it. Do you have a lathe large enough to make the hub?
I suspect the dimensions will all be inch, FWIW. You won't be able to
duplicate the appearance of the original, but you should be able to
duplicate the functionality. You'll need to be able to chuck up
something which is perhaps 3" diameter to start with, I think.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 5 Jul 2011 01:13:13 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2011-07-04, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 4 Jul 2011 03:13:40 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:


The chuck can be replaced with an Albrecht 0-1/8" (0-3mm) with a
J0 taper, and mine actually came with such a chuck. This is a perfect
chuck for the machine.


I may have several of these btw....

J0 or J1. I may have mis-remembered.

O.K. I just checked -- J1. Same for that, the arbor for my
Compact-5/CNC lathe, and for the ball bearing disc sensitive drill
attachment which fits into a 1/2" chuck on a regular drill press.

IIRC, the J0 is for that or an even smaller (1/16" perhaps"
Albrecht chuck.

Enjoy,
DoN.

I guess I didnt make myself clear..if anyone wants one.....I have some
available

Or..I should. I can go check..after I digest this steak and
salad...yummm!!



Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

On 2011-07-05, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 5 Jul 2011 01:13:13 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2011-07-04, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 4 Jul 2011 03:13:40 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:


The chuck can be replaced with an Albrecht 0-1/8" (0-3mm) with a
J0 taper, and mine actually came with such a chuck. This is a perfect
chuck for the machine.


I may have several of these btw....

J0 or J1. I may have mis-remembered.

O.K. I just checked -- J1. Same for that, the arbor for my
Compact-5/CNC lathe, and for the ball bearing disc sensitive drill
attachment which fits into a 1/2" chuck on a regular drill press.

[ ... ]

I guess I didnt make myself clear..if anyone wants one.....I have some
available

It was clear to *me* -- and prompted me to go verify the size
that his Cameron sensitive drill press would want.

I've already got three, and don't see a need for any more, so
I'll leave them for others to get -- such as to go on that cute little
Cameron drill press.

Thanks
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-04, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-04, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

It is in good shape, but it's missing the hub and three handles, and the
chuck key. The price was right, though.

[ ... ]

Mine has a switch on the bottom rear of the motor which has
three positions -- off, a full speed, and a slower speed (resistor in
series). IIRC, the original switch was center off, but it eventually
burned up, and I replaced it with one which I could set up as
off-slow-fast.

Does yours have that three-position switch? Maybe not, if it is
one of those sold with the solid state speed controllers.

But now, I keep it plugged into a speed controller made for a
Dremel, which gives me more reasonable control of speeds.

[ ... ]

Can you put up an image of the other precision drill somewhere?
Perhaps in the dropbox if you don't have a web site of your own? That
is at http://www.metalworking.com. Click on the bar to give directions
on using the dropbox, then once you have the image(s) there, post the
URL for the dropbox and the name of the image files.


It looks more like a hobby mill. It is buit on an X-Y table with
T-slots It says Emco on the belt guard. I tried to take some photos,
but my camrea refused to work, even with new batteries.

O.K. Is it possible that the previous batteries leaked and
corroded the terminals in the camera?


No, the batteris have enver leaked. I got the camera new and make
suure not to leave batteries in something too long. The last time I used
it, I only got four shots on a new set of batteries. The camera never
was right. It's a Fuji Finepix S5200, and it doesn't store about half
the shots on the memory card. I spent half a day shooting over 100
shots of old equipment one day and less than 40 were on the 1 GB card.


As for the device which is resisting being photographed -- you
say Emco (not Enco?) In that case, based on what description you gave,
I think that I know what it is.

Let me describe it (from memory) and you check against that:

1) X-Y base possibly marked "Made in Spain".

2) Column held to back of base by an adaptor (a piece of metal
painted a light orange (though it could be other colors, I
guess)).

3) Column is round, reduced in diameter at the bottom and clamped
in the adaptor.

4) Head is clamped to the column by another adaptor, which
provides a tilting adjustment to the head.

5) A finned motor sticking up from the left of the head, with
two metal bodied capacitors beside it.

6) A lever to move the quill down a fairly short distance, and
(perhaps) an additional feature which engages a gear around the
feed shaft and is turned by an Allen wrench at the end. Loosen
a screw and tilt it to disengage it for faster feed.

7) A hinged door which gives access to the belt (three steps), and
you need to loosen another screw to allow the motor to move to
slack the belt to change steps.

8) Spindle nose is a M14x1 thread -- not hollow at all.

9) Various things screw onto that. I've got (came with mine)
A drill chuck (0-6mm(1/4")).
A collet holder (ER-25 series.
A fly cutter.

And -- I made an adaptor to put a small boring head on it as
well.

Now -- the column is too skinny for the job, and what I did with
mine is to drill and tap a hole in the top end (metric, of course, to
match the rest of the machine), and make a triangle of aluminum angle
"iron", with one apex over the top of the column, and the other two
against the wall where the back side is bolted to give more rigidity.

Note that the tilt pivot for the head is not clamped strongly
enough, and if a cutter bites in, it will tilt the head, even when you
don't want that. :-)

The speeds really don't get slow enough for my taste.

But -- it still does useful things.


That sounds like it. The belt cover is black plastic, and has a
yellow lable marked, "Safety Alert"


Best of luck with the Cameron.


Thanks. I'd hate to think that I wasted the $20.

Somehow -- I don't think so.

Yes -- the parts from Cameron will likely cost more than you
paid for the machine, but be well worth it.


I looked at the Emco today, and the lever is missing on it, too.

If they turn out to be too expensive, I could pull mine apart
and measure it. Do you have a lathe large enough to make the hub?
I suspect the dimensions will all be inch, FWIW. You won't be able to
duplicate the appearance of the original, but you should be able to
duplicate the functionality. You'll need to be able to chuck up
something which is perhaps 3" diameter to start with, I think.


I still don't have a lathe. The last one looked at was almost 20
feet long and would have filled an entire bay in my garage. The lathe
had been stored outdoors, and was rusty. The ways were badly worn, and
it would have used too much current for the crappy power distribution
where I live. It was built in '64, and never updated, so a fuse in the
primaries blows quite often The regulation is already crap, and I'm sure
my neigbors would have hissy fits if I kept knocking out their power
during their soap operas.


I may be able to make something out of a piece of pipe and some 3/8"
drill rod, along with a pin to hold it to the shank. I'm going to email
Cameron about the price, and also to the people I bought the tools from.
They may still have them. It looked like they had moved, and had never
set their tools back up.

--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

Wes wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:


It is in good shape, but it's missing the hub and three handles, and the
chuck key. The price was right, though.

This looks like it, but there is no model number on the drill:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cameron-164-a.html

Very nice. A man of your ingenuity should be able to make the parts you need.


Thanks. It would be easy if I had a lathe and a few other tools, but
I'm sure I'll make it work.


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-04, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

It is in good shape, but it's missing the hub and three handles, and the
chuck key. The price was right, though.

This looks like it, but there is no model number on the drill:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cameron-164-a.html

Congratulations! This is a particularly nice machine. I have
had one since the early 1970s, where I bought it almost new. A
representative for a local machine tool company came by our lab with a
brand new one to demonstrate for several groups within the lab. I was
the first, and helped him unpack it and set it up. (This was prior to
the clear protective cover, but had the dial indicator and holder as
standard at the time.) And -- the supplied dial indicator was a 0-1"
one, which matches the travel of the head, so the worry about the stops
being set to prevent hitting the stops need not apply.

Anyway -- I was quite impressed with it, and asked him how much
he could sell it to me for after demonstrating it around the lab. His
price was $150.00, which I gladly paid. (I also bought one for our
group, and at least one other was sold that I know of.)

These are the missing parts:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...07623_orig.jpg
http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...ig.jpg?199x324

Hmm ... the handles should be easy enough to make (and you can
buy the ball ends from MSC among other places), but the hub will be a
bit more tricky -- matching the angle which the original had. Can you
get replacement parts from Cameron? (I know that their prices have gone
through the roof since I got mine. :-)

The motor on mine does not use the black thumbscrew from the
left to lock its position -- but rather a setscrew. The post from the
motor which slides into the headstock casting is hinged instead, with a
thumbscrew to lock the hinge. So to change belt positions, you loosen
the thumbscrew, hinge the motor (bottom to the rear, pulley towards the
column) to give slack to change the belts.

The chuck can be replaced with an Albrecht 0-1/8" (0-3mm) with a
J0 taper, and mine actually came with such a chuck. This is a perfect
chuck for the machine.


I got a better look at it today. It has a Jacobs 0 chuck installed,
but the key is missing.


Mine has a switch on the bottom rear of the motor which has
three positions -- off, a full speed, and a slower speed (resistor in
series). IIRC, the original switch was center off, but it eventually
burned up, and I replaced it with one which I could set up as
off-slow-fast.


Mine is just on/off, but adding a speed control is no big deal.


But now, I keep it plugged into a speed controller made for a
Dremel, which gives me more reasonable control of speeds.

I also bought 4, 3' 5/8" drill rods for $3.51 each, at a liquidator
that's going out of business.

Hmm ... a bit big for making the feed arms. Good price,
though. :-)

I bought what looks like another precision drill, or mini milling
machine. I haven't been able to identify it, but the price was right.


O.K.

Can you put up an image of the other precision drill somewhere?
Perhaps in the dropbox if you don't have a web site of your own? That
is at http://www.metalworking.com. Click on the bar to give directions
on using the dropbox, then once you have the image(s) there, post the
URL for the dropbox and the name of the image files.


I finally managed to get some photos. As usual, less than half are
on the memory card.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/organize/ has what I was able to retrieve
from the camera.


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

It is in good shape, but it's missing the hub and three handles, and the
chuck key. The price was right, though.

This looks like it, but there is no model number on the drill:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cameron-164-a.html

These are the missing parts:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...07623_orig.jpg
http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...ig.jpg?199x324

I also bought 4, 3' 5/8" drill rods for $3.51 each, at a liquidator
that's going out of business.

I bought what looks like another precision drill, or mini milling
machine. I haven't been able to identify it, but the price was right.



Cameron wants $64.75 for the four parts.

--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

On 2011-07-05, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-04, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

[ ... ]

It looks more like a hobby mill. It is buit on an X-Y table with
T-slots It says Emco on the belt guard. I tried to take some photos,
but my camrea refused to work, even with new batteries.

O.K. Is it possible that the previous batteries leaked and
corroded the terminals in the camera?


No, the batteris have enver leaked. I got the camera new and make
suure not to leave batteries in something too long. The last time I used
it, I only got four shots on a new set of batteries. The camera never
was right. It's a Fuji Finepix S5200, and it doesn't store about half
the shots on the memory card. I spent half a day shooting over 100
shots of old equipment one day and less than 40 were on the 1 GB card.

O.K. Did you try another card in it? Sometimes they get
flakey, too.


As for the device which is resisting being photographed -- you
say Emco (not Enco?) In that case, based on what description you gave,
I think that I know what it is.

Let me describe it (from memory) and you check against that:

[ ... ]

The speeds really don't get slow enough for my taste.

But -- it still does useful things.


That sounds like it. The belt cover is black plastic, and has a
yellow lable marked, "Safety Alert"

O.K. Mine does not have that label, but it could be from a
different period.

FWIW The same column and head fit a different bracket which bolts
on the back of the Emco-Maier Compact-5 lathe (including my
Compact-5/CNC, which would make it sort of a CNC milling
machine.

The hole pattern is just enough different so I can't try mine
like that without making a new adaptor.

[ ... ]

Yes -- the parts from Cameron will likely cost more than you
paid for the machine, but be well worth it.


I looked at the Emco today, and the lever is missing on it, too.

O.K. It is an angled lever (again ball ended, so get one more
balls when rebuilding the Cameron) which goes through a shaft which has
a long gear on it. Part of the gear engages the rack gear in the quill,
and another part (other side of a clamp which keeps it from sliding out)
engages the fine feed adaptor (which I think was an option), but it was
on mine (also used) when I got it.

If they turn out to be too expensive, I could pull mine apart
and measure it. Do you have a lathe large enough to make the hub?
I suspect the dimensions will all be inch, FWIW. You won't be able to
duplicate the appearance of the original, but you should be able to
duplicate the functionality. You'll need to be able to chuck up
something which is perhaps 3" diameter to start with, I think.


I still don't have a lathe. The last one looked at was almost 20
feet long and would have filled an entire bay in my garage. The lathe
had been stored outdoors, and was rusty.

Not worth the trouble. Probably you want something between a 7"
and a 12" lathe, unless you have larger projects in mind.

The ways were badly worn, and
it would have used too much current for the crappy power distribution
where I live. It was built in '64, and never updated, so a fuse in the
primaries blows quite often The regulation is already crap, and I'm sure
my neigbors would have hissy fits if I kept knocking out their power
during their soap operas.

Do they *have* to know that it was you? :-)

I may be able to make something out of a piece of pipe and some 3/8"
drill rod, along with a pin to hold it to the shank.

Remember that the shank was never held that way originally, and
that would be likely to damage it.

The hub simply slips onto the shank, and the special handle
slips in through an angled hole in the hub into a matching angled hole
in the shank, and then a screw threads into a tapped hole in the end of
the shank to rest against the turned down section of the special handle.
Then the other two just screw into their sockets on the hub.

Download the "setup_and_use_manual.pdf" from the web site you
pointed to. On the first (of two pages) left hand column, read
"Installing Spoked Feed Wheel".

I see that the "two speed motor" is an option, so you may or may
not have that.

I'm going to email
Cameron about the price, and also to the people I bought the tools from.
They may still have them. It looked like they had moved, and had never
set their tools back up.

I hope that you find the missing parts. Including the parts
missing from the little Emco Mill ("C5 mill" is the model -- to match
with the "Compact-5" lathe.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2011-07-05, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

[ ... ]

The chuck can be replaced with an Albrecht 0-1/8" (0-3mm) with a
J0 taper, and mine actually came with such a chuck. This is a perfect
chuck for the machine.


I got a better look at it today. It has a Jacobs 0 chuck installed,
but the key is missing.

O.K. Those can be purchased -- but better to get the Albrecht
keyless chuck from Gunner. "Keyless" means that you don't need to worry
about losing a key to the chuck -- ever. And it is a very precise
chuck.

He says that he has several. And mine turns out to be a "Jacobs
1 taper", not a "Jacobs 0 taper". Might be model on the chuck, not the
taper size.

Looks like the "Jacobs 0M" chuck uses a #0 JT taper. And the
"Jacobs 1M" chuck uses as #1 JT taper, so go for an Albrecht which
matches the #0 Jacobs taper.

Mine has a switch on the bottom rear of the motor which has
three positions -- off, a full speed, and a slower speed (resistor in
series). IIRC, the original switch was center off, but it eventually
burned up, and I replaced it with one which I could set up as
off-slow-fast.


Mine is just on/off, but adding a speed control is no big deal.

And actually kinder to the motor. It *does* get hot running for
long on the slow speed from the switch. I don't use my slow speed
setting now that I have the variable controller for the older
single-speed Dremel.

[ ... ]

Can you put up an image of the other precision drill somewhere?
Perhaps in the dropbox if you don't have a web site of your own? That
is at http://www.metalworking.com. Click on the bar to give directions
on using the dropbox, then once you have the image(s) there, post the
URL for the dropbox and the name of the image files.


I finally managed to get some photos. As usual, less than half are
on the memory card.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/organize/ has what I was able to retrieve
from the camera.

That URL wants me to log in or create an account -- with no clue
where your images are. Please try again.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2011-07-05, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

It is in good shape, but it's missing the hub and three handles, and the
chuck key. The price was right, though.

This looks like it, but there is no model number on the drill:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cameron-164-a.html

These are the missing parts:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...07623_orig.jpg
http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...ig.jpg?199x324

I also bought 4, 3' 5/8" drill rods for $3.51 each, at a liquidator
that's going out of business.

I bought what looks like another precision drill, or mini milling
machine. I haven't been able to identify it, but the price was right.



Cameron wants $64.75 for the four parts.

What about just for the hub and the special spoke? (If you had
a lathe, you could even make the special -- and it would not need to be
a particularly large lathe. Even a Taig or Sherline could do it nicely.
The big trick would be making the hub with the hole at the proper angle.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-05, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

[ ... ]

The chuck can be replaced with an Albrecht 0-1/8" (0-3mm) with a
J0 taper, and mine actually came with such a chuck. This is a perfect
chuck for the machine.


I got a better look at it today. It has a Jacobs 0 chuck installed,
but the key is missing.

O.K. Those can be purchased -- but better to get the Albrecht
keyless chuck from Gunner. "Keyless" means that you don't need to worry
about losing a key to the chuck -- ever. And it is a very precise
chuck.

He says that he has several. And mine turns out to be a "Jacobs
1 taper", not a "Jacobs 0 taper". Might be model on the chuck, not the
taper size.

Looks like the "Jacobs 0M" chuck uses a #0 JT taper. And the
"Jacobs 1M" chuck uses as #1 JT taper, so go for an Albrecht which
matches the #0 Jacobs taper.

Mine has a switch on the bottom rear of the motor which has
three positions -- off, a full speed, and a slower speed (resistor in
series). IIRC, the original switch was center off, but it eventually
burned up, and I replaced it with one which I could set up as
off-slow-fast.


Mine is just on/off, but adding a speed control is no big deal.

And actually kinder to the motor. It *does* get hot running for
long on the slow speed from the switch. I don't use my slow speed
setting now that I have the variable controller for the older
single-speed Dremel.

[ ... ]

Can you put up an image of the other precision drill somewhere?
Perhaps in the dropbox if you don't have a web site of your own? That
is at http://www.metalworking.com. Click on the bar to give directions
on using the dropbox, then once you have the image(s) there, post the
URL for the dropbox and the name of the image files.


I finally managed to get some photos. As usual, less than half are
on the memory card.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/organize/ has what I was able to retrieve
from the camera.

That URL wants me to log in or create an account -- with no clue
where your images are. Please try again.


I forgot that I was logged in when I copied the URL.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/materrell/ and click on 'Projects'.

--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-05, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

It is in good shape, but it's missing the hub and three handles, and the
chuck key. The price was right, though.

This looks like it, but there is no model number on the drill:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cameron-164-a.html

These are the missing parts:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...07623_orig.jpg
http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...ig.jpg?199x324

I also bought 4, 3' 5/8" drill rods for $3.51 each, at a liquidator
that's going out of business.

I bought what looks like another precision drill, or mini milling
machine. I haven't been able to identify it, but the price was right.



Cameron wants $64.75 for the four parts.

What about just for the hub and the special spoke? (If you had
a lathe, you could even make the special -- and it would not need to be
a particularly large lathe. Even a Taig or Sherline could do it nicely.
The big trick would be making the hub with the hole at the proper angle.


1 MD109-7 SPOKED FEED WHEEL HUB 23.50 23.50
2 MD110-7 FEED WHEEL LEVER, THREADED 10.75 21.50
1 MD111-7 FEED WHEEL LEVER, GROOVED 10.75 10.75
Shipping estimate: 9.00

I can't even find someone with a small lathe, around here. I've asked
around for almost 10 years with no luck.

--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

On 2011-07-06, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-05, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

[ ... ]

I finally managed to get some photos. As usual, less than half are
on the memory card.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/organize/ has what I was able to retrieve
from the camera.

That URL wants me to log in or create an account -- with no clue
where your images are. Please try again.


I forgot that I was logged in when I copied the URL.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/materrell/ and click on 'Projects'.

O.K. No visible "Projects" to click on, but by clicking on
"older" I moved through the images to see the Emco among other things.

It is certainly different in several ways from mine, including
the X-axis is shorter than mine. Paint is yellow-orange, not the faint
pea green which this appears to be.

But -- looking at the rear view -- the column is very
differently mounted. Mine goes into an adaptor, with a split closed by
clamp screws to tighten the grip on it. Yours appears to have two
screws passing though the bottom of the column and something like a
V-block to hold it upright.

Column is 35mm diameter (just measured it).

Motor on yours hangs down from the belt housing, mine sticks up.

Switch is on the front of the motor.

Views of the Cameron miss a close one of the one which I was
looking for, the right side view. But it does sort of look like you
have the tilting motor for changing belts, instead of the thumbscrew on
the left to let you slide the motor mount in to get slack for belt
changes. Look on the right side of the rectangular block between the
motor and the projection from the head to accept the motor mount. There
should be a thumbscrew which sticks out enough so you can get to it
easily. Loosen it, and the rear of the motor will tilt toward the back,
moving the pulley towards the center and slacking the belts.

You have the belt guard, which I don't.

All of the views of the Cameron are cropped a bit too tight on
the top, so I can't see the indicator mount (which may or may not be
present, depending on the options supplied with yours.

O.K. I found the projects page, and I was able to zoom in on
the one which includes the belt sander and the Cameron, and see enough
detail to say that yours certainly *does* have the knurled thumbscrew
for letting the motor tilt for belt changes.

It would also appear that you don't have the dial indicator
mount. That would replace the depth stop (larger thumbnut on top in
front of the one which appears to hold down the belt guard). You would
replace that with one which includes the same threaded shaft as the stop
has (and the nuts would transfer over) but would have a hex top end
perhaps 1-1/2" long, and (at a guess) perhaps 5/16" across flats hex.

The holder is an arm, with a hex hold broached in one end (and
split with a clamp screw with thumbnut) and a round hole in the other
end, also split with a slotted screw to clamp it on the shank of the
dial indicator. The arm is long enough to put the point of the
indicator centered over the top end of the column.

You can determine the angle of the feed lever by sliding a shaft
which fits into the hole in the shank, if you want to make a three-armed
hub. For quick and dirty, just slide the shaft which fits (turned down
a little in the middle where a screw through the end of the shaft holds
it in place. This will be quite awkward, but it will do to feed the
drill -- you will simply have to reach rather far back for the deeper
feeds.

Other than this -- it looks really nice.

You may need to adjust the end play in the spindle. To do that,
you loosen an allen head setscrew in the top of the pulley, and screw
the shaft into the pulley to minize the end play, then re-tighten the
setscrew.

Remember -- *don't* use an oil which gums -- *especially*
3-in-1. You want a fine spindle oil.

Oh yes -- when you first turn on the motor after it has sat for
a while, there will be a bead of oil around the spindle which will
splash out in all direction. Either tape a guard (some cardboard) to
catch it, wipe it off, or live with it. :-)

Note the column locking lever behind and a little below the
feed shaft. If you look a little above it, you will see a slotted
setscrew which is useds to adjust side play by bearing against the side
of the rack gear. See whether the front of the head can be pushed from
side to side, and if so, adjust this screw a little.

Read the downloaded manual for adjusting the belt tension.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2011-07-06, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

[ ... ]

Cameron wants $64.75 for the four parts.

What about just for the hub and the special spoke? (If you had
a lathe, you could even make the special -- and it would not need to be
a particularly large lathe. Even a Taig or Sherline could do it nicely.
The big trick would be making the hub with the hole at the proper angle.


1 MD109-7 SPOKED FEED WHEEL HUB 23.50 23.50
2 MD110-7 FEED WHEEL LEVER, THREADED 10.75 21.50
1 MD111-7 FEED WHEEL LEVER, GROOVED 10.75 10.75
Shipping estimate: 9.00

I can't even find someone with a small lathe, around here. I've asked
around for almost 10 years with no luck.

So -- *become* someone with a small lathe. Say perhaps the
Taig. Look at:

http://www.cartertools.com/

He used to be a regular around here.

$191.50 Lathe itself (excluding motor, pulleys and tailstock)
$106.40 Motor (if you don't have one about 1/4 HP, with 1/2" shaft)
$5.25 Motor mount bracket.
$64.10 3-jaw chuck
$37.80
or (drill chuck, depending on quality desired)
$10.40
$25.80 Pulley set.
$39.50 Tailstock

for a minimum.

You could get the "Beginner's Lathe Package" for $301.65, if you already
have a motor you can use, though I would add the 3-jaw chuck.

http://www.cartertools.com/package.html

Add the die holder ($16.50) to make it easier to thread the ends of the
other two shafts.

And if you want to turn a hub, and want it to be nicer looking
than just a plain cylinder, add the top slide (compound) so you can turn
conical surfaces. That adds $44.80 to the price, though it is already in
the advancced set.

I actually bought mine at a hamfest many years ago (before the
"Taig" name was on them), with every option that I could get there.
And yes, I still use it sometimes, in combination with my other larger
lathes.

Or -- you could spend what Cameron wants for the parts, and
postpone purchasing a small lathe. :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-06, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

[ ... ]

Cameron wants $64.75 for the four parts.

What about just for the hub and the special spoke? (If you had
a lathe, you could even make the special -- and it would not need to be
a particularly large lathe. Even a Taig or Sherline could do it nicely.
The big trick would be making the hub with the hole at the proper angle.


1 MD109-7 SPOKED FEED WHEEL HUB 23.50 23.50
2 MD110-7 FEED WHEEL LEVER, THREADED 10.75 21.50
1 MD111-7 FEED WHEEL LEVER, GROOVED 10.75 10.75
Shipping estimate: 9.00

I can't even find someone with a small lathe, around here. I've asked
around for almost 10 years with no luck.

So -- *become* someone with a small lathe. Say perhaps the
Taig. Look at:

http://www.cartertools.com/

He used to be a regular around here.

$191.50 Lathe itself (excluding motor, pulleys and tailstock)
$106.40 Motor (if you don't have one about 1/4 HP, with 1/2" shaft)
$5.25 Motor mount bracket.
$64.10 3-jaw chuck
$37.80
or (drill chuck, depending on quality desired)
$10.40
$25.80 Pulley set.
$39.50 Tailstock

for a minimum.

You could get the "Beginner's Lathe Package" for $301.65, if you already
have a motor you can use, though I would add the 3-jaw chuck.

http://www.cartertools.com/package.html

Add the die holder ($16.50) to make it easier to thread the ends of the
other two shafts.

And if you want to turn a hub, and want it to be nicer looking
than just a plain cylinder, add the top slide (compound) so you can turn
conical surfaces. That adds $44.80 to the price, though it is already in
the advancced set.

I actually bought mine at a hamfest many years ago (before the
"Taig" name was on them), with every option that I could get there.
And yes, I still use it sometimes, in combination with my other larger
lathes.

Or -- you could spend what Cameron wants for the parts, and
postpone purchasing a small lathe. :-)


I want a small lathe, but even the replacment parts are out of my
budget for at least four months. I really didn't have the spare cash
for the tools. I need a power steering pump on my truck, and used the
money I had saved for that.


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-06, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-05, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

[ ... ]

I finally managed to get some photos. As usual, less than half are
on the memory card.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/organize/ has what I was able to retrieve
from the camera.

That URL wants me to log in or create an account -- with no clue
where your images are. Please try again.


I forgot that I was logged in when I copied the URL.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/materrell/ and click on 'Projects'.

O.K. No visible "Projects" to click on, but by clicking on
"older" I moved through the images to see the Emco among other things.

It is certainly different in several ways from mine, including
the X-axis is shorter than mine. Paint is yellow-orange, not the faint
pea green which this appears to be.

But -- looking at the rear view -- the column is very
differently mounted. Mine goes into an adaptor, with a split closed by
clamp screws to tighten the grip on it. Yours appears to have two
screws passing though the bottom of the column and something like a
V-block to hold it upright.

Column is 35mm diameter (just measured it).

Motor on yours hangs down from the belt housing, mine sticks up.

Switch is on the front of the motor.

Views of the Cameron miss a close one of the one which I was
looking for, the right side view. But it does sort of look like you
have the tilting motor for changing belts, instead of the thumbscrew on
the left to let you slide the motor mount in to get slack for belt
changes. Look on the right side of the rectangular block between the
motor and the projection from the head to accept the motor mount. There
should be a thumbscrew which sticks out enough so you can get to it
easily. Loosen it, and the rear of the motor will tilt toward the back,
moving the pulley towards the center and slacking the belts.

You have the belt guard, which I don't.

All of the views of the Cameron are cropped a bit too tight on
the top, so I can't see the indicator mount (which may or may not be
present, depending on the options supplied with yours.

O.K. I found the projects page, and I was able to zoom in on
the one which includes the belt sander and the Cameron, and see enough
detail to say that yours certainly *does* have the knurled thumbscrew
for letting the motor tilt for belt changes.

It would also appear that you don't have the dial indicator
mount.


No, there is no indicator mount.


That would replace the depth stop (larger thumbnut on top in
front of the one which appears to hold down the belt guard). You would
replace that with one which includes the same threaded shaft as the stop
has (and the nuts would transfer over) but would have a hex top end
perhaps 1-1/2" long, and (at a guess) perhaps 5/16" across flats hex.

The holder is an arm, with a hex hold broached in one end (and
split with a clamp screw with thumbnut) and a round hole in the other
end, also split with a slotted screw to clamp it on the shank of the
dial indicator. The arm is long enough to put the point of the
indicator centered over the top end of the column.

You can determine the angle of the feed lever by sliding a shaft
which fits into the hole in the shank, if you want to make a three-armed
hub. For quick and dirty, just slide the shaft which fits (turned down
a little in the middle where a screw through the end of the shaft holds
it in place. This will be quite awkward, but it will do to feed the
drill -- you will simply have to reach rather far back for the deeper
feeds.

Other than this -- it looks really nice.


Other than a ring of something on the table, it looks almost new.


You may need to adjust the end play in the spindle. To do that,
you loosen an allen head setscrew in the top of the pulley, and screw
the shaft into the pulley to minize the end play, then re-tighten the
setscrew.

Remember -- *don't* use an oil which gums -- *especially*
3-in-1. You want a fine spindle oil.


I already saw that information on line.


Oh yes -- when you first turn on the motor after it has sat for
a while, there will be a bead of oil around the spindle which will
splash out in all direction. Either tape a guard (some cardboard) to
catch it, wipe it off, or live with it. :-)


I turned it on before I bought it. It was nice and quiet, and the
spindle felt good and tight.


Note the column locking lever behind and a little below the
feed shaft. If you look a little above it, you will see a slotted
setscrew which is useds to adjust side play by bearing against the side
of the rack gear. See whether the front of the head can be pushed from
side to side, and if so, adjust this screw a little.

Read the downloaded manual for adjusting the belt tension.


Thanks for the tips. The pictures that disappeared from the camera
had more detail. It was almost 100 F when i took the photos, and I
didn't feel up to going back out in that heat to shoot them again. It's
supposed to cool off some over the next week, so I'll try it again.

Graingers has the Jacobs K0 chuck key for less than $10.

--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

On 2011-07-07, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

It would also appear that you don't have the dial indicator
mount.


No, there is no indicator mount.

A pity. With a lathe, and a somewhat larger drill press, you
could make one using my description below.

That would replace the depth stop (larger thumbnut on top in
front of the one which appears to hold down the belt guard). You would
replace that with one which includes the same threaded shaft as the stop
has (and the nuts would transfer over) but would have a hex top end
perhaps 1-1/2" long, and (at a guess) perhaps 5/16" across flats hex.

The holder is an arm, with a hex hold broached in one end (and
split with a clamp screw with thumbnut) and a round hole in the other
end, also split with a slotted screw to clamp it on the shank of the
dial indicator. The arm is long enough to put the point of the
indicator centered over the top end of the column.

You can determine the angle of the feed lever by sliding a shaft
which fits into the hole in the shank, if you want to make a three-armed
hub. For quick and dirty, just slide the shaft which fits (turned down
a little in the middle where a screw through the end of the shaft holds
it in place. This will be quite awkward, but it will do to feed the
drill -- you will simply have to reach rather far back for the deeper
feeds.

Other than this -- it looks really nice.


Other than a ring of something on the table, it looks almost new.

Just a discoloration? Nothing to worry about. If it is a cut
or a wear pattern, it would be unpleasant, but you could bolt some 1/4"
aluminum to the top surface to get a smooth surface back.

You may need to adjust the end play in the spindle. To do that,
you loosen an allen head setscrew in the top of the pulley, and screw
the shaft into the pulley to minize the end play, then re-tighten the
setscrew.

[ ... ]

Oh yes -- when you first turn on the motor after it has sat for
a while, there will be a bead of oil around the spindle which will
splash out in all direction. Either tape a guard (some cardboard) to
catch it, wipe it off, or live with it. :-)


I turned it on before I bought it. It was nice and quiet, and the
spindle felt good and tight.

The play which I was mentioning is felt by gripping the chuck
and pressing up and down to feel the end play. If you have it, it is
easy enough to adjust out.

Note the column locking lever behind and a little below the
feed shaft. If you look a little above it, you will see a slotted
setscrew which is useds to adjust side play by bearing against the side
of the rack gear. See whether the front of the head can be pushed from
side to side, and if so, adjust this screw a little.

Read the downloaded manual for adjusting the belt tension.


Thanks for the tips. The pictures that disappeared from the camera
had more detail.

Of *course* they did. That is why they vanished. :-)

Hmm ... are you in the habit of turning off the camera
immediately after taking a shot? There should be a LED (probably near
the slot where the media goes) which tells you when it is safe to pull
the media (or to turn off the camera).

It was almost 100 F when i took the photos, and I
didn't feel up to going back out in that heat to shoot them again. It's
supposed to cool off some over the next week, so I'll try it again.

I can understand that.

Graingers has the Jacobs K0 chuck key for less than $10.

Just for the fun of it -- ask Gunner what he wants for the
Albrecht chucks? I didn't ask him, because I already have three, and
don't see a need for more. (One for the Cameron, one for the tailstock
of the Compact-5/CNC lathe (along with 1/4" Abrecht, and 3/8" Rhom
(clone of Albrecht) on different arbors), and one for the adaptor --
1/2" chuck down to 1/8" chuck with finger pressure feed.

The only place where your current chuck will be better will be
if you need to hold something larger than 1/8" shank, which is the max
for the little Albrecht chucks.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-07, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

It would also appear that you don't have the dial indicator
mount.


No, there is no indicator mount.

A pity. With a lathe, and a somewhat larger drill press, you
could make one using my description below.


I have a 12 speed floor press with a half inch chuck. Just no access
to a lathe, so far.


That would replace the depth stop (larger thumbnut on top in
front of the one which appears to hold down the belt guard). You would
replace that with one which includes the same threaded shaft as the stop
has (and the nuts would transfer over) but would have a hex top end
perhaps 1-1/2" long, and (at a guess) perhaps 5/16" across flats hex.

The holder is an arm, with a hex hold broached in one end (and
split with a clamp screw with thumbnut) and a round hole in the other
end, also split with a slotted screw to clamp it on the shank of the
dial indicator. The arm is long enough to put the point of the
indicator centered over the top end of the column.

You can determine the angle of the feed lever by sliding a shaft
which fits into the hole in the shank, if you want to make a three-armed
hub. For quick and dirty, just slide the shaft which fits (turned down
a little in the middle where a screw through the end of the shaft holds
it in place. This will be quite awkward, but it will do to feed the
drill -- you will simply have to reach rather far back for the deeper
feeds.

Other than this -- it looks really nice.


Other than a ring of something on the table, it looks almost new.

Just a discoloration? Nothing to worry about. If it is a cut
or a wear pattern, it would be unpleasant, but you could bolt some 1/4"
aluminum to the top surface to get a smooth surface back.


I brought it into the house. I'll see if I can get better photos
with proper lighting. The ring looks like someone set a can os
something on the aluminum. I may be able to clean it off and leave the
original finish.


You may need to adjust the end play in the spindle. To do that,
you loosen an allen head setscrew in the top of the pulley, and screw
the shaft into the pulley to minize the end play, then re-tighten the
setscrew.

[ ... ]

Oh yes -- when you first turn on the motor after it has sat for
a while, there will be a bead of oil around the spindle which will
splash out in all direction. Either tape a guard (some cardboard) to
catch it, wipe it off, or live with it. :-)

I turned it on before I bought it. It was nice and quiet, and the
spindle felt good and tight.

The play which I was mentioning is felt by gripping the chuck
and pressing up and down to feel the end play. If you have it, it is
easy enough to adjust out.


I didn't feel any, when i looked it over before I bought it.


Note the column locking lever behind and a little below the
feed shaft. If you look a little above it, you will see a slotted
setscrew which is useds to adjust side play by bearing against the side
of the rack gear. See whether the front of the head can be pushed from
side to side, and if so, adjust this screw a little.

Read the downloaded manual for adjusting the belt tension.


Thanks for the tips. The pictures that disappeared from the camera
had more detail.

Of *course* they did. That is why they vanished. :-)


I think the 1 GB XD cards draw too much power, but the built in
memory only holds a few pictures. If you look at the names of the
images, they are all consecutive which indicates they weren't written to
the XD card so the counter would increment.


Hmm ... are you in the habit of turning off the camera
immediately after taking a shot? There should be a LED (probably near
the slot where the media goes) which tells you when it is safe to pull
the media (or to turn off the camera).


No, the camera was on through all of the shots.


It was almost 100 F when i took the photos, and I didn't feel up to
going back out in that heat to shoot them again. It's supposed to
cool off some over the next week, so I'll try it again.

I can understand that.

Graingers has the Jacobs K0 chuck key for less than $10.

Just for the fun of it -- ask Gunner what he wants for the
Albrecht chucks? I didn't ask him, because I already have three, and
don't see a need for more. (One for the Cameron, one for the tailstock
of the Compact-5/CNC lathe (along with 1/4" Abrecht, and 3/8" Rhom
(clone of Albrecht) on different arbors), and one for the adaptor --
1/2" chuck down to 1/8" chuck with finger pressure feed.


I will, when I see him on the group, or if he sees this post he can
email me the information.


The only place where your current chuck will be better will be
if you need to hold something larger than 1/8" shank, which is the max
for the little Albrecht chucks.


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

On Wed, 06 Jul 2011 00:44:38 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-05, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

It is in good shape, but it's missing the hub and three handles, and the
chuck key. The price was right, though.

This looks like it, but there is no model number on the drill:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cameron-164-a.html

These are the missing parts:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...07623_orig.jpg
http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...ig.jpg?199x324

I also bought 4, 3' 5/8" drill rods for $3.51 each, at a liquidator
that's going out of business.

I bought what looks like another precision drill, or mini milling
machine. I haven't been able to identify it, but the price was right.



Cameron wants $64.75 for the four parts.

What about just for the hub and the special spoke? (If you had
a lathe, you could even make the special -- and it would not need to be
a particularly large lathe. Even a Taig or Sherline could do it nicely.
The big trick would be making the hub with the hole at the proper angle.


1 MD109-7 SPOKED FEED WHEEL HUB 23.50 23.50
2 MD110-7 FEED WHEEL LEVER, THREADED 10.75 21.50
1 MD111-7 FEED WHEEL LEVER, GROOVED 10.75 10.75
Shipping estimate: 9.00

I can't even find someone with a small lathe, around here. I've asked
around for almost 10 years with no luck.

You...dont have a lathe? How big a lathe would meet your needs?

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Wed, 06 Jul 2011 00:44:38 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-05, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

It is in good shape, but it's missing the hub and three handles, and the
chuck key. The price was right, though.

This looks like it, but there is no model number on the drill:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cameron-164-a.html

These are the missing parts:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...07623_orig.jpg
http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...ig.jpg?199x324

I also bought 4, 3' 5/8" drill rods for $3.51 each, at a liquidator
that's going out of business.

I bought what looks like another precision drill, or mini milling
machine. I haven't been able to identify it, but the price was right.



Cameron wants $64.75 for the four parts.

What about just for the hub and the special spoke? (If you had
a lathe, you could even make the special -- and it would not need to be
a particularly large lathe. Even a Taig or Sherline could do it nicely.
The big trick would be making the hub with the hole at the proper angle.


1 MD109-7 SPOKED FEED WHEEL HUB 23.50 23.50
2 MD110-7 FEED WHEEL LEVER, THREADED 10.75 21.50
1 MD111-7 FEED WHEEL LEVER, GROOVED 10.75 10.75
Shipping estimate: 9.00

I can't even find someone with a small lathe, around here. I've asked
around for almost 10 years with no luck.

You...dont have a lathe? How big a lathe would meet your needs?


It would have to be small, to get it into the shop instead of the
garage. Most of what I need to turn is fairly small, but the little
7"*10" might be too small.

I see that Lee vally has the Taig for $269, less the motor. I have a
treadmill motor that should be big enough, but it is only 4.5"*9.75"


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

On Sat, 09 Jul 2011 02:40:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Wed, 06 Jul 2011 00:44:38 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-05, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

It is in good shape, but it's missing the hub and three handles, and the
chuck key. The price was right, though.

This looks like it, but there is no model number on the drill:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cameron-164-a.html

These are the missing parts:

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...07623_orig.jpg
http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...ig.jpg?199x324

I also bought 4, 3' 5/8" drill rods for $3.51 each, at a liquidator
that's going out of business.

I bought what looks like another precision drill, or mini milling
machine. I haven't been able to identify it, but the price was right.



Cameron wants $64.75 for the four parts.

What about just for the hub and the special spoke? (If you had
a lathe, you could even make the special -- and it would not need to be
a particularly large lathe. Even a Taig or Sherline could do it nicely.
The big trick would be making the hub with the hole at the proper angle.


1 MD109-7 SPOKED FEED WHEEL HUB 23.50 23.50
2 MD110-7 FEED WHEEL LEVER, THREADED 10.75 21.50
1 MD111-7 FEED WHEEL LEVER, GROOVED 10.75 10.75
Shipping estimate: 9.00

I can't even find someone with a small lathe, around here. I've asked
around for almost 10 years with no luck.

You...dont have a lathe? How big a lathe would meet your needs?


It would have to be small, to get it into the shop instead of the
garage. Most of what I need to turn is fairly small, but the little
7"*10" might be too small.

I see that Lee vally has the Taig for $269, less the motor. I have a
treadmill motor that should be big enough, but it is only 4.5"*9.75"

Could you use a 6x 24 or so like a South Bend or something similar?

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

--FWIW if you send it to Cameron it'll come back looking like a new
machine. I sent mine back for a motor switch repair and they did the whole
whammy on it: great service. The boss still mans the booth at trade shows
too.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Steel, Stainless, Titanium:
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : Guaranteed Uncertified Welding!
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 09 Jul 2011 02:40:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
? wrote:

?
?Gunner Asch wrote:
??
?? On Wed, 06 Jul 2011 00:44:38 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
?? ? wrote:
??
?? ?
?? ?"DoN. Nichols" wrote:
?? ??
?? ?? On 2011-07-05, Michael A. Terrell ? wrote:
?? ?? ?
?? ?? ? "Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?? It is in good shape, but it's missing the hub and three handles, and the
?? ?? ?? chuck key. The price was right, though.
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?? This looks like it, but there is no model number on the drill:
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?? http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cameron-164-a.html
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?? These are the missing parts:
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?? http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...07623_orig.jpg
?? ?? ?? http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...ig.jpg?199x324
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?? I also bought 4, 3' 5/8" drill rods for $3.51 each, at a liquidator
?? ?? ?? that's going out of business.
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?? I bought what looks like another precision drill, or mini milling
?? ?? ?? machine. I haven't been able to identify it, but the price was right.
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?
?? ?? ?
?? ?? ? Cameron wants $64.75 for the four parts.
?? ??
?? ?? What about just for the hub and the special spoke? (If you had
?? ?? a lathe, you could even make the special -- and it would not need to be
?? ?? a particularly large lathe. Even a Taig or Sherline could do it nicely.
?? ?? The big trick would be making the hub with the hole at the proper angle.
?? ?
?? ?
?? ?1 MD109-7 SPOKED FEED WHEEL HUB 23.50 23.50
?? ?2 MD110-7 FEED WHEEL LEVER, THREADED 10.75 21.50
?? ?1 MD111-7 FEED WHEEL LEVER, GROOVED 10.75 10.75
?? ?Shipping estimate: 9.00
?? ?
?? ? I can't even find someone with a small lathe, around here. I've asked
?? ?around for almost 10 years with no luck.
??
?? You...dont have a lathe? How big a lathe would meet your needs?
?
?
? It would have to be small, to get it into the shop instead of the
?garage. Most of what I need to turn is fairly small, but the little
?7"*10" might be too small.
?
? I see that Lee vally has the Taig for $269, less the motor. I have a
?treadmill motor that should be big enough, but it is only 4.5"*9.75"

Could you use a 6x 24 or so like a South Bend or something similar?


Probably, but money is the real issue right now. I am trying to
finish some repairs on the house to make it easier for me to move
around, and my small VA pension is making that difficult.


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

steamer wrote:

--FWIW if you send it to Cameron it'll come back looking like a new
machine. I sent mine back for a motor switch repair and they did the whole
whammy on it: great service. The boss still mans the booth at trade shows
too.


Thanks for that information, but other than the missing parts it
looks new.


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

On 2011-07-09, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2011-07-07, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

It would also appear that you don't have the dial indicator
mount.


No, there is no indicator mount.

A pity. With a lathe, and a somewhat larger drill press, you
could make one using my description below.


I have a 12 speed floor press with a half inch chuck. Just no access
to a lathe, so far.

O.K. I guess that you could take some hex stock and chuck it in
the drill press, and run it with a file to round the lower part to the
proper diameter for the threads. At a guess, the threads are 1/4-28,
but I've never measured them.

Oh yes -- also you would want either a hex broach (expensive,
new) or some needle files to file one hole out to the proper hex shape.

[ ... ]

Other than this -- it looks really nice.


Other than a ring of something on the table, it looks almost new.

Just a discoloration? Nothing to worry about. If it is a cut
or a wear pattern, it would be unpleasant, but you could bolt some 1/4"
aluminum to the top surface to get a smooth surface back.


I brought it into the house. I'll see if I can get better photos
with proper lighting. The ring looks like someone set a can os
something on the aluminum. I may be able to clean it off and leave the
original finish.

O.K. If the surface is smooth -- don't worry about cleaning it
off. It may have sunk into the pores of the anodizing, in which case
you would have to remove some material to get rid of it.

You may need to adjust the end play in the spindle. To do that,
you loosen an allen head setscrew in the top of the pulley, and screw
the shaft into the pulley to minize the end play, then re-tighten the
setscrew.

[ ... ]

and pressing up and down to feel the end play. If you have it, it is
easy enough to adjust out.


I didn't feel any, when i looked it over before I bought it.

O.K. Check it over when you get it into the house. It is
certainly easy enough to adjust out if it is present. (I think that
mine has about 0.005" of end play at the moment.

[ ... ]

Thanks for the tips. The pictures that disappeared from the camera
had more detail.

Of *course* they did. That is why they vanished. :-)


I think the 1 GB XD cards draw too much power, but the built in
memory only holds a few pictures. If you look at the names of the
images, they are all consecutive which indicates they weren't written to
the XD card so the counter would increment.

O.K. What connector does an XD card have? The CF has two rows
of tiny pins (in the socket), and are easy to bend if you put the card
in wrong once. The SD seems to be flat PC-like connectors which are
wiped by spring fingers in the socket.

Anyway -- if one is bent, it won't work right.

[ ... ]

Graingers has the Jacobs K0 chuck key for less than $10.

Just for the fun of it -- ask Gunner what he wants for the
Albrecht chucks? I didn't ask him, because I already have three, and
don't see a need for more. (One for the Cameron, one for the tailstock
of the Compact-5/CNC lathe (along with 1/4" Albrecht, and 3/8" Rhom
(clone of Albrecht) on different arbors), and one for the adaptor --
1/2" chuck down to 1/8" chuck with finger pressure feed.


I will, when I see him on the group, or if he sees this post he can
email me the information.

It looks as though he followed up to this article of yours -- so
you may already have the information.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2011-07-09, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 09 Jul 2011 02:40:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Wed, 06 Jul 2011 00:44:38 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

[ ... ]

You...dont have a lathe? How big a lathe would meet your needs?


It would have to be small, to get it into the shop instead of the
garage. Most of what I need to turn is fairly small, but the little
7"*10" might be too small.

I see that Lee vally has the Taig for $269, less the motor. I have a
treadmill motor that should be big enough, but it is only 4.5"*9.75"

Could you use a 6x 24 or so like a South Bend or something similar?

Gunner,

Have you sent Mike a price on the Albrecht 1/8" drill chucks?
Not sure whether you noticed that in his article which you replied to.

Enjoy,
Don.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sat, 09 Jul 2011 15:59:52 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 09 Jul 2011 02:40:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
? wrote:

?
?Gunner Asch wrote:
??
?? On Wed, 06 Jul 2011 00:44:38 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
?? ? wrote:
??
?? ?
?? ?"DoN. Nichols" wrote:
?? ??
?? ?? On 2011-07-05, Michael A. Terrell ? wrote:
?? ?? ?
?? ?? ? "Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?? It is in good shape, but it's missing the hub and three handles, and the
?? ?? ?? chuck key. The price was right, though.
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?? This looks like it, but there is no model number on the drill:
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?? http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cameron-164-a.html
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?? These are the missing parts:
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?? http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...07623_orig.jpg
?? ?? ?? http://watchmaking.weebly.com/upload...ig.jpg?199x324
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?? I also bought 4, 3' 5/8" drill rods for $3.51 each, at a liquidator
?? ?? ?? that's going out of business.
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?? I bought what looks like another precision drill, or mini milling
?? ?? ?? machine. I haven't been able to identify it, but the price was right.
?? ?? ??
?? ?? ?
?? ?? ?
?? ?? ? Cameron wants $64.75 for the four parts.
?? ??
?? ?? What about just for the hub and the special spoke? (If you had
?? ?? a lathe, you could even make the special -- and it would not need to be
?? ?? a particularly large lathe. Even a Taig or Sherline could do it nicely.
?? ?? The big trick would be making the hub with the hole at the proper angle.
?? ?
?? ?
?? ?1 MD109-7 SPOKED FEED WHEEL HUB 23.50 23.50
?? ?2 MD110-7 FEED WHEEL LEVER, THREADED 10.75 21.50
?? ?1 MD111-7 FEED WHEEL LEVER, GROOVED 10.75 10.75
?? ?Shipping estimate: 9.00
?? ?
?? ? I can't even find someone with a small lathe, around here. I've asked
?? ?around for almost 10 years with no luck.
??
?? You...dont have a lathe? How big a lathe would meet your needs?
?
?
? It would have to be small, to get it into the shop instead of the
?garage. Most of what I need to turn is fairly small, but the little
?7"*10" might be too small.
?
? I see that Lee vally has the Taig for $269, less the motor. I have a
?treadmill motor that should be big enough, but it is only 4.5"*9.75"

Could you use a 6x 24 or so like a South Bend or something similar?


Probably, but money is the real issue right now. I am trying to
finish some repairs on the house to make it easier for me to move
around, and my small VA pension is making that difficult.

I have access to small lathes now and then. I clean out factories, set
up factories, fix machinery in factories...and occasionally find such
items.

Ill keep my eyes open for something for you. You might..might have to
pay freight...but Ill see what I can do about helping you out with that
as well.

Dont hold your breath..but Im still a pretty good scrounger so finding
you something may be possible.

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

On 10 Jul 2011 04:17:05 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2011-07-09, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 09 Jul 2011 02:40:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Wed, 06 Jul 2011 00:44:38 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

[ ... ]

You...dont have a lathe? How big a lathe would meet your needs?


It would have to be small, to get it into the shop instead of the
garage. Most of what I need to turn is fairly small, but the little
7"*10" might be too small.

I see that Lee vally has the Taig for $269, less the motor. I have a
treadmill motor that should be big enough, but it is only 4.5"*9.75"

Could you use a 6x 24 or so like a South Bend or something similar?

Gunner,

Have you sent Mike a price on the Albrecht 1/8" drill chucks?
Not sure whether you noticed that in his article which you replied to.

Enjoy,
Don.

Don..I actually dont remember if I did or didnt.

Let me check and see what I have and Ill post it here.

Its starting to cool off out there and Ill be working out there until
8-9 am when it starts heating up again.

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.