Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

On 8/25/2010 5:23 PM, Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT!

The only possible explanation: In your hands, spanners turn into magic
wands.

Jordan

On Aug 25, 3:23*am, "Buerste" wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. *You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! *It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? *My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. *I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. *No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. *The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). *Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. *Go figure. *I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

It's the magic touch.

The knack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmYDgncMhXw


I was always picked to go on road trips, not for my stellar company,
but because 'dave can fix it'.


Dave

On Aug 25, 3:23*am, "Buerste" wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. *You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! *It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? *My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. *I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. *No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. *The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). *Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. *Go figure. *I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

Somewhere, somehow, something has moved out of position under load in
the last ten years. WHen you take it apart and put it back all lined
up properly again, you give it another ten years to get back out of
position...
--Glenn Lyford

On 8/25/2010 5:28 AM, Glenn Lyford wrote:

(...)

Somewhere, somehow, something has moved out of position under load in
the last ten years. WHen you take it apart and put it back all lined
up properly again, you give it another ten years to get back out of
position...
--Glenn Lyford


Problems that disappear by themselves tend to reappear by themselves.

--Winston

"Winston" wrote in message
...
On 8/25/2010 5:28 AM, Glenn Lyford wrote:

(...)

Somewhere, somehow, something has moved out of position under load in
the last ten years. WHen you take it apart and put it back all lined
up properly again, you give it another ten years to get back out of
position...
--Glenn Lyford


Problems that disappear by themselves tend to reappear by themselves.

--Winston

.......just after you put that last screw back in.

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 05:00:40 -0700 (PDT), Dave__67
wrote:

On Aug 25, 3:23*am, "Buerste" wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. *You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! *It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? *My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. *I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. *No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. *The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). *Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. *Go figure. *I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

It's the magic touch.

The knack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmYDgncMhXw


I was always picked to go on road trips, not for my stellar company,
but because 'dave can fix it'.


Dave

My eyes are watering from laughing so hard. "I'm sorry your son is
going to be an engineer." Boo Hoo hoo LOL

I didn't know they made Dilbert in motion cartoons.

SW

On Aug 25, 8:09*am, "Dennis" wrote:
"Winston" wrote in message

...

On 8/25/2010 5:28 AM, Glenn Lyford wrote:

(...)

Somewhere, somehow, something has moved out of position under load in
the last ten years. *WHen you take it apart and put it back all lined
up properly again, you give it another ten years to get back out of
position... *
* *--Glenn Lyford

Problems that disappear by themselves tend to reappear by themselves.

--Winston

......just after you put that last screw back in.

.....or just after tell everyone it's working again....

On 08/25/2010 12:23 AM, Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!


Oh, you mean "The Briggs & Stratton Effect".

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Aug 25, 1:23*am, "Buerste" wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. *You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! *It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? *My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. *I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. *No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. *The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). *Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. *Go figure. *I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

I call it "The Laying On of Hands". Can be supplimented with an
exclamation of "Heal!"(or "HEEL!") at the appropriate time. Only
works if you've stripped the item down to the last loose nut and bolt,
though.

Stan

On Aug 25, 9:22*am, Sunworshipper wrote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 05:00:40 -0700 (PDT), Dave__67



wrote:
On Aug 25, 3:23*am, "Buerste" wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. *You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! *It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? *My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. *I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. *No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. *The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). *Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. *Go figure. *I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

It's the magic touch.

The knack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmYDgncMhXw

I was always picked to go on road trips, not for my stellar company,
but because 'dave can fix it'.

Dave

My eyes are watering from laughing so hard. *"I'm sorry your son is
going to be an engineer." Boo Hoo hoo *LOL

I didn't know they made Dilbert in motion cartoons.

SW

1999, UPN (if you remember that network)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...pf_rd_i=507846

Dave

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:28:45 -0700 (PDT), Dave__67
wrote:

On Aug 25, 9:22*am, Sunworshipper wrote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 05:00:40 -0700 (PDT), Dave__67



wrote:
On Aug 25, 3:23*am, "Buerste" wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. *You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! *It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? *My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. *I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. *No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. *The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). *Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. *Go figure. *I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

It's the magic touch.

The knack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmYDgncMhXw

I was always picked to go on road trips, not for my stellar company,
but because 'dave can fix it'.

Dave

My eyes are watering from laughing so hard. *"I'm sorry your son is
going to be an engineer." Boo Hoo hoo *LOL

I didn't know they made Dilbert in motion cartoons.

SW

1999, UPN (if you remember that network)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...pf_rd_i=507846

Dave


I'll have to keep a look out for that tape, not gonna pay $40. Yes,
UPN, didn't last eh. The circle. triangle, square the sign of the
aliens. Was reading/scanning Wiki and don't see Lucas or Spielberg
mentioned, I thought they started that. Guess that's wrong, wonder
where I got that from.

SW

On Aug 25, 8:05*am, Winston wrote:
On 8/25/2010 5:28 AM, Glenn Lyford wrote:

(...)

Somewhere, somehow, something has moved out of position under load in
the last ten years. *WHen you take it apart and put it back all lined
up properly again, you give it another ten years to get back out of
position... *
* *--Glenn Lyford

Problems that disappear by themselves tend to reappear by themselves.

--Winston

Not if you use your mojo and wave your spanner.

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 03:23:31 -0400
"Buerste" wrote:

Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

I spent a good part of my life servicing stuff and that is a pretty
common occurrence. If at all possible try to keep verifying that the
problem still exists. Be really, really careful as you disassemble
everything, noting anything that looks suspicious. Go back to step one
if you do and verify that the problem still exists. Try hard not to
give it a thump/slap, you should have already tried this route before
you made up your mind to really try fixing it.

I fixed way too many things in my day simply and carefully removing the
covers to get inside...

Write down as many notes/thoughts you have on it right now while they
are fresh in your mind. When it happens again those notes could be very
useful.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!


Bad electrical connections, almost for sure. The only question is how
long it will take to go bad again. All sorts of those tin-plated quick
connect terminals, in a variety of forms and sizes, have slow corrosion
of the contact area. If perfectly clean, applying 120 V will always
break through the oxide. When not so clean, they can amazingly sit
there with 120 V across them and no conduction, until you separate and
remate the contacts. That's why when it matters (automotive "important
stuff", aerospace, etc.) they use gold connectors.

Jon

On Aug 25, 3:40*pm, Jon Elson wrote:
Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. *You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! *It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? *My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. *I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. *No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. *The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). *Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. *Go figure. *I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

Bad electrical connections, almost for sure. *The only question is how
long it will take to go bad again. *All sorts of those tin-plated quick
connect terminals, in a variety of forms and sizes, have slow corrosion
of the contact area. *If perfectly clean, applying 120 V will always
break through the oxide. *When not so clean, they can amazingly sit
there with 120 V across them and no conduction, until you separate and
remate the contacts. *That's why when it matters (automotive "important
stuff", aerospace, etc.) they use gold connectors.

Jon

What's really fun is tracking down 10 millivolts or so 'lost' due to
fretting.

Dave

"Buerste" wrote in message
...
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!


It's quite likely an electrical problem with a connector. The metal in
the connectors slowly oxidizes and eventually fails to conduct like it
should. I learned long ago that step #1 was to unplug and replug all
electrical connectors. The root cause of intermittent problems is usually
the connectors.
Art

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!


Bad electrical connections, almost for sure. The only question is how
long it will take to go bad again. All sorts of those tin-plated quick
connect terminals, in a variety of forms and sizes, have slow corrosion
of the contact area. If perfectly clean, applying 120 V will always
break through the oxide. When not so clean, they can amazingly sit
there with 120 V across them and no conduction, until you separate and
remate the contacts. That's why when it matters (automotive "important
stuff", aerospace, etc.) they use gold connectors.

Jon

You beat me to it.
Art

On 8/25/2010 12:40 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:

Write down as many notes/thoughts you have on it right now while they
are fresh in your mind. When it happens again those notes could be very
useful.

Yes! Notes are extremely important.

If repairing for someone else, please remember to ask
The Magic Question:
"What happened just before this symptom appeared?"

Got a unit in with a weird symptom.
I called the customer and asked The Magic Question.
(And I'm Not Making This Up):

"I closed the top cover and noticed that it was pinching
a wire in the hinge. That couldn't be it, could it?"

I located and repaired the damage to the pinched wire,
secured it out of harm's way; was suddenly unable to
reproduce the symptom! Complete functionality restored.

On another unit, customer asks about image
distortion in a document scanner.

I asked The Magic Question and appended it with:
"For example, was the unit dropped or perhaps hit?"
The customer responded by nicely indicating they didn't
require any further assistance.

Funny that.

The Magic Question is a heck of a time saver.

--Winston

On 8/25/2010 9:53 AM, Denis G. wrote:
On Aug 25, 8:05 am, wrote:
On 8/25/2010 5:28 AM, Glenn Lyford wrote:

(...)

Somewhere, somehow, something has moved out of position under load in
the last ten years. WHen you take it apart and put it back all lined
up properly again, you give it another ten years to get back out of
position...
--Glenn Lyford

Problems that disappear by themselves tend to reappear by themselves.

--Winston

Not if you use your mojo and wave your spanner.

Oh Noooooo!
I should have taped over the lens on my webcam.

--Winston

"Buerste" wrote in message
...
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

10-4 on that, Tawm.

Bob Swinney
"Buerste" wrote in message
...
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's
going on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I
spent hours and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it
wasn't frozen-up, (the most common fault it seems) the motor worked,
the thermostat checked out, the heater passed muster. The water
valve is OK and all cleaned out. (I've replaced plenty of those in
different units over the years). Of course, I find nothing else that
could cause it to crap out so put it all back together and...it works
just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if not thousands of this
kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

I just went thru a whole damned to hell and beyond day doing just that with
my wife's car . Never did find anything wrong , but after unplug-plugging a
buncha connectors it runs again . Damn thing has a PCM that controls
*everything* . Died on her this am on her way to work , and I'm sure glad
it was close enough for her to walk home !
Still don't know why it died , but it runs now so ...
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

Sunworshipper wrote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:28:45 -0700 (PDT), Dave__67
wrote:

On Aug 25, 9:22 am, Sunworshipper wrote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 05:00:40 -0700 (PDT), Dave__67



wrote:
On Aug 25, 3:23 am, "Buerste" wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all
the components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back
together and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for
forever but what's going on? My latest is the icemaker in the
kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours and hours finding documents
and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up, (the most common
fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked out, the
heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the
years). Of course, I find nothing else that could cause it to
crap out so put it all back together and...it works just fine. Go
figure. I've had hundreds if not thousands of this kind of thing,
I'll bet everybody else does too!

It's the magic touch.

The knack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmYDgncMhXw

I was always picked to go on road trips, not for my stellar
company, but because 'dave can fix it'.

Dave

My eyes are watering from laughing so hard. "I'm sorry your son is
going to be an engineer." Boo Hoo hoo LOL

I didn't know they made Dilbert in motion cartoons.

SW

1999, UPN (if you remember that network)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...pf_rd_i=507846

Dave


I'll have to keep a look out for that tape, not gonna pay $40. Yes,
UPN, didn't last eh. The circle. triangle, square the sign of the
aliens. Was reading/scanning Wiki and don't see Lucas or Spielberg
mentioned, I thought they started that. Guess that's wrong, wonder
where I got that from.

SW

www.tvtorrents.com has two seasons , which I am downloading as I type this .
Others may have it too , TVtorrents is an invitation-only site .

--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT!

That was called the "Heal syndrome" by the profs. at
PennState when I walked in to fix some big research
instrument and turned it on put it through it's paces
and everything worked fine. just the day before it
wouldn't do for the folks in the lab. :-)
It's just magic.
...lew...

"Snag" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's
going on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I
spent hours and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it
wasn't frozen-up, (the most common fault it seems) the motor worked,
the thermostat checked out, the heater passed muster. The water
valve is OK and all cleaned out. (I've replaced plenty of those in
different units over the years). Of course, I find nothing else that
could cause it to crap out so put it all back together and...it works
just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if not thousands of this
kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

I just went thru a whole damned to hell and beyond day doing just that with
my wife's car . Never did find anything wrong , but after unplug-plugging a
buncha connectors it runs again . Damn thing has a PCM that controls
*everything* . Died on her this am on her way to work , and I'm sure glad
it was close enough for her to walk home !
Still don't know why it died , but it runs now so ...
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

An easy to overlook problem is the ground connections. Weird **** happens
with poor/intermittent/missing grounds.
Art

Artemus wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back
together and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever
but what's going on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen
refrigerator. I spent hours and hours finding documents and
troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up, (the most common fault
it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked out, the heater
passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out. (I've
replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put
it all back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've
had hundreds if not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet
everybody else does too!

I just went thru a whole damned to hell and beyond day doing just
that with my wife's car . Never did find anything wrong , but after
unplug-plugging a buncha connectors it runs again . Damn thing has a
PCM that controls *everything* . Died on her this am on her way to
work , and I'm sure glad it was close enough for her to walk home !
Still don't know why it died , but it runs now so ...
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

An easy to overlook problem is the ground connections. Weird ****
happens with poor/intermittent/missing grounds.
Art

The first thing I check is the grounds and battery hot leads , always ,
just because thar's quite often where the problem is . What made this one
worse was that it was intermittent . Only thing I can figger is that one of
those connector blocks had a bad connection . As in your post above ...
thought I found it earlier when I was under the dash and checking ig switch
connections . Then it started malfing again ... sure hope it's fixed now ,
the wife needs to get to work tomorrow .

--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:46:56 -0700, "Artemus"
wrote:


"Snag" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's
going on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I
spent hours and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it
wasn't frozen-up, (the most common fault it seems) the motor worked,
the thermostat checked out, the heater passed muster. The water
valve is OK and all cleaned out. (I've replaced plenty of those in
different units over the years). Of course, I find nothing else that
could cause it to crap out so put it all back together and...it works
just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if not thousands of this
kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

I just went thru a whole damned to hell and beyond day doing just that with
my wife's car . Never did find anything wrong , but after unplug-plugging a
buncha connectors it runs again . Damn thing has a PCM that controls
*everything* . Died on her this am on her way to work , and I'm sure glad
it was close enough for her to walk home !
Still don't know why it died , but it runs now so ...
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

An easy to overlook problem is the ground connections. Weird **** happens
with poor/intermittent/missing grounds.
Art


That's right, and neutrals, the N word for electricians. Your the
only one so far to bring up the I word. I use to get all the I work
orders.Nothing worse than the public relations and intermittent and
ghosting problems.

One time it was a Judge's spa, I could tell and was told there where
many failed attempts, took about 4 hours to find out what it was. It
would screw up in front of you, take it apart and leave all the guts
hanging out and it would work perfectly, put it together and it would
come on and off in different modes at random time intervals. Had to do
with spring tension on multifunctional solenoid switches. Horizontal
worked fine, put the cover with the switches attached vertical no
work.

Another was this very influential guy in vegas, had a new pool spa
combo that he could call ahead of time so that it would switch from
pool/spa to spa only presetting. So that by the time he arrived the
spa would be preheated and ready to go. I guess no one would listen to
his complaints about it thinking for itself until it got to far and he
wanted half the company there at the same time and have them stay
until it was fixed. I was invited. 9:00am the sales dude, the super,
the plumber, the electrician, the people who put in this rat maze in
the box, ahhh about 8 people. They all scratch their heads and then
its my turn. This box of wires is pretty complex, I try to think as
all these people are waiting and staring. Reminds me of my last job!
Anyhow, nothing is jumping out so I fall back on the ole think simple
stupid. There is no neutral ! stand up and say so and they made the
electrician pull another home run with 4 wires instead of three. Never
heard from that guy ever again.

SW

Artemus wrote:

"Buerste" wrote in message
...
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!


It's quite likely an electrical problem with a connector. The metal in
the connectors slowly oxidizes and eventually fails to conduct like it
should. I learned long ago that step #1 was to unplug and replug all
electrical connectors. The root cause of intermittent problems is usually
the connectors.


That's why I used to use a Q-tip and GC 'Tunerlube' to coat
contacts. It kept oxygn and other gasses away from the contact surface.

Lewis Hartswick wrote:

Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT!

That was called the "Heal syndrome" by the profs. at
PennState when I walked in to fix some big research
instrument and turned it on put it through it's paces
and everything worked fine. just the day before it
wouldn't do for the folks in the lab. :-)


No, it just didn't like the 'Pointy Headed Dunces'. ;-)

In my experience, I've discovered that you can fix almost anything by taking
it apart, carrying the parts around the block, and putting them back
together again.

Tom

"Buerste" wrote in message
...
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's
going on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent
hours and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't
frozen-up, (the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the
thermostat checked out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK
and all cleaned out. (I've replaced plenty of those in different units
over the years). Of course, I find nothing else that could cause it to
crap out so put it all back together and...it works just fine. Go figure.
I've had hundreds if not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet
everybody else does too!

On Aug 25, 3:15*pm, "Snag" wrote:

I just went thru a whole damned to hell and beyond day doing just that with
my wife's car . Never did find anything wrong , but after unplug-plugging a
buncha connectors it runs again . Damn thing has a PCM that controls
*everything* *. Died on her this am on her way to work , and I'm sure glad
it was close enough for her to walk home !


Does your wife have a heavy or bulky keychain? Ignition switches have
been known to be loose enough to turn off when the pendulum of other
keys swings in the wrong direction.

"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
...
In my experience, I've discovered that you can fix almost anything by
taking it apart, carrying the parts around the block, and putting them
back together again.

Tom

A bud has a BIG pin printer that does 6-part forms for his business. They
are hard to find and expensive. It failed and he drove it to a repair
center where it worked fine. Every few months when it poops-out he loads it
in the car and drives around for a while.

whit3rd wrote:
On Aug 25, 3:15 pm, "Snag" wrote:

I just went thru a whole damned to hell and beyond day doing just
that with my wife's car . Never did find anything wrong , but after
unplug-plugging a buncha connectors it runs again . Damn thing has a
PCM that controls *everything* . Died on her this am on her way to
work , and I'm sure glad it was close enough for her to walk home !


Does your wife have a heavy or bulky keychain? Ignition switches have
been known to be loose enough to turn off when the pendulum of other
keys swings in the wrong direction.

Nope , and in this case that wouldn't cause the problem . The keyed part is
a separate unit , only contact with the contactor part is a small protrusion
that turns it . I'm leaning towards it was an oxidized contact or three .
It starts this morning ...

--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

On Aug 24, 9:23*pm, "Buerste" wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. *You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! *It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? *My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. *I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. *No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. *The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). *Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. *Go figure. *I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

Gremlins you scare them off when you look for them.
Karl

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:54:54 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On 08/25/2010 12:23 AM, Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!


Oh, you mean "The Briggs & Stratton Effect".

I wasn't getting a spark on my old Murray mower (B&S) so I troubleshot
the ignition. Nogo. I put it back together and it still wouldn't
start. After loading it on the truck and taking it down to the
repairman, he gave it a couple squirts of prime and it started on the
first pull, just as it had for me all those years. Go figure.

I guess the mower just wanted a city tour. shrug

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:46:56 -0700, "Artemus"
wrote:


"Snag" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's
going on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I
spent hours and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it
wasn't frozen-up, (the most common fault it seems) the motor worked,
the thermostat checked out, the heater passed muster. The water
valve is OK and all cleaned out. (I've replaced plenty of those in
different units over the years). Of course, I find nothing else that
could cause it to crap out so put it all back together and...it works
just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if not thousands of this
kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

I just went thru a whole damned to hell and beyond day doing just that with
my wife's car . Never did find anything wrong , but after unplug-plugging a
buncha connectors it runs again . Damn thing has a PCM that controls
*everything* . Died on her this am on her way to work , and I'm sure glad
it was close enough for her to walk home !
Still don't know why it died , but it runs now so ...
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

An easy to overlook problem is the ground connections. Weird **** happens
with poor/intermittent/missing grounds.

Oxidized connections at the connectors account for a very large
percentage of computer repairs, too. R&R connector, computer starts
working.

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:04:53 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:46:56 -0700, "Artemus"
wrote:


"Snag" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's
going on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I
spent hours and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it
wasn't frozen-up, (the most common fault it seems) the motor worked,
the thermostat checked out, the heater passed muster. The water
valve is OK and all cleaned out. (I've replaced plenty of those in
different units over the years). Of course, I find nothing else that
could cause it to crap out so put it all back together and...it works
just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if not thousands of this
kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

I just went thru a whole damned to hell and beyond day doing just that with
my wife's car . Never did find anything wrong , but after unplug-plugging a
buncha connectors it runs again . Damn thing has a PCM that controls
*everything* . Died on her this am on her way to work , and I'm sure glad
it was close enough for her to walk home !
Still don't know why it died , but it runs now so ...
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

An easy to overlook problem is the ground connections. Weird **** happens
with poor/intermittent/missing grounds.

Oxidized connections at the connectors account for a very large
percentage of computer repairs, too. R&R connector, computer starts
working.


Used to be REAL common with socketed DIP RAM and DIP socketed
processors. Remember when virtual;ly every chip on a motherboard was
plugged into a socket????

My experience is over half the time when someone calls me to look at
equipment that is malfunctioning, it starts to work as soon as I get
within about 50 yards.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:04:53 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:46:56 -0700, "Artemus"
wrote:


"Snag" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back
together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's
going on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I
spent hours and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it
wasn't frozen-up, (the most common fault it seems) the motor worked,
the thermostat checked out, the heater passed muster. The water
valve is OK and all cleaned out. (I've replaced plenty of those in
different units over the years). Of course, I find nothing else that
could cause it to crap out so put it all back together and...it works
just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if not thousands of this
kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

I just went thru a whole damned to hell and beyond day doing just that
with
my wife's car . Never did find anything wrong , but after
unplug-plugging a
buncha connectors it runs again . Damn thing has a PCM that controls
*everything* . Died on her this am on her way to work , and I'm sure
glad
it was close enough for her to walk home !
Still don't know why it died , but it runs now so ...
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

An easy to overlook problem is the ground connections. Weird ****
happens
with poor/intermittent/missing grounds.

Oxidized connections at the connectors account for a very large
percentage of computer repairs, too. R&R connector, computer starts
working.


Used to be REAL common with socketed DIP RAM and DIP socketed
processors. Remember when virtual;ly every chip on a motherboard was
plugged into a socket????

My experience is over half the time when someone calls me to look at
equipment that is malfunctioning, it starts to work as soon as I get
within about 50 yards.

That's a different effect -- the "Repairman proximity effect." It usually
occurs just after you've incurred charges for his trip. I had a refrigerator
that worked that way. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 13:37:06 -0700
Winston wrote:

If repairing for someone else, please remember to ask
The Magic Question:
"What happened just before this symptom appeared?"
snip

What I most often heard was, "I don't know, I was told to drop this off
here because it doesn't work".

Another good one was the trash haulers. Didn't matter which one really,
they were all similar in the way they operated. They would call in for
service around 4:00 pm (I worked on two-way radios). The symptom would
be a dead radio and the truck was in the yard. So you get your
stuff together and zip over there, hoping to get the job done before
5:00 pm, quitting time. Pull in the yard, drive around looking for
truck number 508, can't find it. So you go over to dispatch and ask
them where it is. They in turn say, "oh, truck 508 is almost back, let
me call him on the radio and see how long he'll be." Dead radio
indeed...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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