On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:34:01 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:04:53 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:46:56 -0700, "Artemus"
wrote:


"Snag" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's
going on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I
spent hours and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it
wasn't frozen-up, (the most common fault it seems) the motor worked,
the thermostat checked out, the heater passed muster. The water
valve is OK and all cleaned out. (I've replaced plenty of those in
different units over the years). Of course, I find nothing else that
could cause it to crap out so put it all back together and...it works
just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if not thousands of this
kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

I just went thru a whole damned to hell and beyond day doing just that with
my wife's car . Never did find anything wrong , but after unplug-plugging a
buncha connectors it runs again . Damn thing has a PCM that controls
*everything* . Died on her this am on her way to work , and I'm sure glad
it was close enough for her to walk home !
Still don't know why it died , but it runs now so ...
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

An easy to overlook problem is the ground connections. Weird **** happens
with poor/intermittent/missing grounds.

Oxidized connections at the connectors account for a very large
percentage of computer repairs, too. R&R connector, computer starts
working.


Used to be REAL common with socketed DIP RAM and DIP socketed
processors. Remember when virtual;ly every chip on a motherboard was
plugged into a socket????

My experience is over half the time when someone calls me to look at
equipment that is malfunctioning, it starts to work as soon as I get
within about 50 yards.


Oooooh!! You have the Healing Aura!!!!

Cool!

Gunner, traveling Service Tech


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:34:01 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:04:53 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:46:56 -0700, "Artemus"
wrote:


"Snag" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's
going on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I
spent hours and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it
wasn't frozen-up, (the most common fault it seems) the motor worked,
the thermostat checked out, the heater passed muster. The water
valve is OK and all cleaned out. (I've replaced plenty of those in
different units over the years). Of course, I find nothing else that
could cause it to crap out so put it all back together and...it works
just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if not thousands of this
kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

I just went thru a whole damned to hell and beyond day doing just that with
my wife's car . Never did find anything wrong , but after unplug-plugging a
buncha connectors it runs again . Damn thing has a PCM that controls
*everything* . Died on her this am on her way to work , and I'm sure glad
it was close enough for her to walk home !
Still don't know why it died , but it runs now so ...
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

An easy to overlook problem is the ground connections. Weird **** happens
with poor/intermittent/missing grounds.

Oxidized connections at the connectors account for a very large
percentage of computer repairs, too. R&R connector, computer starts
working.


Used to be REAL common with socketed DIP RAM and DIP socketed
processors. Remember when virtual;ly every chip on a motherboard was
plugged into a socket????

My experience is over half the time when someone calls me to look at
equipment that is malfunctioning, it starts to work as soon as I get
within about 50 yards.

Oooooh!! You have the Healing Aura!!!!

Cool!


I used to get a call over the radio from the dispatcher when I was
three or four blocks from my next job, that the equipment had started
working.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:45:22 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:34:01 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:04:53 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:46:56 -0700, "Artemus"
wrote:


"Snag" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's
going on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I
spent hours and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it
wasn't frozen-up, (the most common fault it seems) the motor worked,
the thermostat checked out, the heater passed muster. The water
valve is OK and all cleaned out. (I've replaced plenty of those in
different units over the years). Of course, I find nothing else that
could cause it to crap out so put it all back together and...it works
just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if not thousands of this
kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

I just went thru a whole damned to hell and beyond day doing just that with
my wife's car . Never did find anything wrong , but after unplug-plugging a
buncha connectors it runs again . Damn thing has a PCM that controls
*everything* . Died on her this am on her way to work , and I'm sure glad
it was close enough for her to walk home !
Still don't know why it died , but it runs now so ...
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

An easy to overlook problem is the ground connections. Weird **** happens
with poor/intermittent/missing grounds.

Oxidized connections at the connectors account for a very large
percentage of computer repairs, too. R&R connector, computer starts
working.


Used to be REAL common with socketed DIP RAM and DIP socketed
processors. Remember when virtual;ly every chip on a motherboard was
plugged into a socket????

My experience is over half the time when someone calls me to look at
equipment that is malfunctioning, it starts to work as soon as I get
within about 50 yards.


Oooooh!! You have the Healing Aura!!!!

Cool!

Gunner, traveling Service Tech


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

Nothing saying it still works when I get 52 yards away :{

"Buerste" wrote:

Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!



I don't have that problem. I show up and the machine starts working which frustrates the
person that called me.

Wes

On 2010-08-26, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:04:53 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

[ ... ]

Oxidized connections at the connectors account for a very large
percentage of computer repairs, too. R&R connector, computer starts
working.


Used to be REAL common with socketed DIP RAM and DIP socketed
processors. Remember when virtual;ly every chip on a motherboard was
plugged into a socket????

That was when memory chips cost a significant fraction of the
cost of the board on which they were installed and it was beneficial to
be able to replace an individual (bad) chip.

And the common repair used to be to lift the computer (no hard
disk installed) a few inches off the table, hold it parallel to the
table and drop it to re-seat the chips. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2010-08-26, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:04:53 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

[ ... ]

Oxidized connections at the connectors account for a very large
percentage of computer repairs, too. R&R connector, computer starts
working.


Used to be REAL common with socketed DIP RAM and DIP socketed
processors. Remember when virtual;ly every chip on a motherboard was
plugged into a socket????

That was when memory chips cost a significant fraction of the
cost of the board on which they were installed and it was beneficial to
be able to replace an individual (bad) chip.

And the common repair used to be to lift the computer (no hard
disk installed) a few inches off the table, hold it parallel to the
table and drop it to re-seat the chips. :-)


Or to remove the chip, shove a goos machined pin IC socket into the
cheaper formed pin tyoe, then inset the chip into the new socket?

Gunner Asch on Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:45:22 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Used to be REAL common with socketed DIP RAM and DIP socketed
processors. Remember when virtual;ly every chip on a motherboard was
plugged into a socket????

My experience is over half the time when someone calls me to look at
equipment that is malfunctioning, it starts to work as soon as I get
within about 50 yards.


Oooooh!! You have the Healing Aura!!!!

Don't forget the majik words "Now, what seems to be the problem
with this?"
Fixes things up, right quick.

pyotr
former VW mechanic.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:04:37 -0400, Wes
wrote:

"Buerste" wrote:

Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!



I don't have that problem. I show up and the machine starts working which frustrates the
person that called me.

Wes
To the point where they don't want to pay for a service call.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Gerald Miller wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:04:37 -0400, Wes
wrote:

"Buerste" wrote:

Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!


I don't have that problem. I show up and the machine starts working which frustrates the
person that called me.

Wes
To the point where they don't want to pay for a service call.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Then theres the temporary faulty car starter problem. Best cure is to
have mans oldest tool handy, thump the starter a couple of times then it
will work fine all week. And dont forget to slam the hood down well.This
always helps.

In article ,
"Buerste" wrote:

Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

I too have experienced this numerous times... always makes me nervous.

Along the same lines is when someone asks me to 'take a look at
something', then together we can't make the damned thing act up to save
our asses. They're always embarrassed: often going on about the 'magic
touch' and all that jazz...

I know they wouldn't be there had they not experienced something
alarming, and suspect they'll fear further embarrassment returning
if/when/should said symptoms return. I always try to explain to them
that this isn't a new phenomena, and that I certainly possess no
mechanical/electrical/electronic 'supernatural powers', and please not
to hesitate contacting if said issues continue.

I hate both these situations... I'd MUCH rather deal with something
concrete than be left in the 'twilight zone'

Erik

Erik wrote:
In article ,
"Buerste" wrote:

Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back
together and...IT WORKS PERFECT!
I too have experienced this numerous times... always makes me nervous.

Along the same lines is when someone asks me to 'take a look at
something', then together we can't make the damned thing act up to
save our asses. They're always embarrassed: often going on about the
'magic touch' and all that jazz...

I know they wouldn't be there had they not experienced something
alarming, and suspect they'll fear further embarrassment returning
if/when/should said symptoms return. I always try to explain to them
that this isn't a new phenomena, and that I certainly possess no
mechanical/electrical/electronic 'supernatural powers', and please not
to hesitate contacting if said issues continue.

I hate both these situations... I'd MUCH rather deal with something
concrete than be left in the 'twilight zone'

Erik

And that's exactly where I am right now with the wife's car . Still don't
know what the problem was , and I'm just waiting for the "other shoe to
drop" . So far it's not given any more problems , but ...
Sometimes I miss the days of points and carbs . At least they were easier
to diagnose and repair . What really sucked about this one was that the
scanner wouldn't link up , making any diagnosis a shot in the dark .
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

In article ,
Gerald Miller wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:04:37 -0400, Wes
wrote:

"Buerste" wrote:

Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!



I don't have that problem. I show up and the machine starts working which
frustrates the
person that called me.

Wes
To the point where they don't want to pay for a service call.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Customer: "You expect me to pay $50.00 for *THAT*?"

The worst problems with machines are intermittent, especially those that
"fix themselves" just long enough to allow the fault log, if any, to
fully reset.

"Electronic record of fault conditions to assist diagnosis and service,"
my arse!

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:45:19 -0700, Erik wrote:

In article ,
"Buerste" wrote:

Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

I too have experienced this numerous times... always makes me nervous.

Along the same lines is when someone asks me to 'take a look at
something', then together we can't make the damned thing act up to save
our asses. They're always embarrassed: often going on about the 'magic
touch' and all that jazz...

I know they wouldn't be there had they not experienced something
alarming, and suspect they'll fear further embarrassment returning
if/when/should said symptoms return. I always try to explain to them
that this isn't a new phenomena, and that I certainly possess no
mechanical/electrical/electronic 'supernatural powers', and please not
to hesitate contacting if said issues continue.

I hate both these situations... I'd MUCH rather deal with something
concrete than be left in the 'twilight zone'

Erik

Try it in my line of work..fixing high precison machine tools..CNC.

Client will call..telling me that out of 50 parts...2 of them are .010
off..the rest are perfect. And they take 2 minutes each to run. And its
random....

So I have to watch the ****ing machines for a minimum of 100 minutes
just to see if I can catch what the hell is going on. This after doing
a mechanical checkout that takes 15 minutes minumum..then tuning the
control, pulling all that sheetmetal off, checking couplers, ballscrews
etce etc etc.

Can **** away a whole day doing that. And you cant bill the client for
all that time either.


Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

On 8/27/2010 4:20 AM, Snag wrote:

And that's exactly where I am right now with the wife's car . Still don't
know what the problem was , and I'm just waiting for the "other shoe to
drop" . So far it's not given any more problems , but ...
Sometimes I miss the days of points and carbs . At least they were easier
to diagnose and repair . What really sucked about this one was that the
scanner wouldn't link up , making any diagnosis a shot in the dark .

* Is your Malfunction Indicator Light working?

* Can you tap out the appropriate code on the accelerator to get a
code readout on the MIL? (For example, see page EC-708:
http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/Sentra/2004_Sentra/ec.pdf

* Does your OBD II reader work on a different vehicle?

* Does your OBD II reader display indicate that it is
getting power? (Open fuse to the OBD data link connector?)

* Do you have a copy of the shop manual for the car?

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics

--Winston

Gerald Miller wrote:

I don't have that problem. I show up and the machine starts working which frustrates the
person that called me.

Wes
To the point where they don't want to pay for a service call.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada


My customers are internal as in I'm on the inside dealing with issues inside the facility.

There has been one notable exception to my usual experiences. I have a test cell that
uses a temperature controller to cause programmed ramps of temperatures inside the test
cell.

On our older boxes, Labview running on the PC directly controls the heating system. The
newest stuff, well that was implemented by someone that isn't here anymore for many good
reasons.

Labview via a National Instruments DAQ card, changes the set point using 0-10v, the
chamber temp is read via a type J thermocouple, the scr heater controller is driven by a
4-20 MA signal from a Watlow controller. Labview needs to know what is happening so
another 0-10v output on the controller retransmits what the type J t/c on input 1 sees.

Well a month or so ago, the original controller died. It was only 5 years old but is now
out of production. So I buy something else Watlow makes and I have to wait a week for it
to be made since they can't get processor chips.

Well I get it, I install and configure it, it is working fine. Then I close the panel
door and the display winks out. FUG. It isn't a broken wire, I got a lemon. Any
vibration will reset it.

Okay fine. Try to order another one. Find out this month is the last time they are
making it. Next week the latest and greatest will be available and it costs 1/2. Well no
brainer, we can wait.

New controller shows up a day early, I stick it in, scratch my head reading the documents
and by the next day, it is working perfectly. I played with a couple parameters that
affect auto tune and that thing made a beautiful curve. Minimum overshoot, no
oscillations. Very nice. Only took about 3 trials to nail it.

Got noise problems though on process retransmit output. Prints show DAQ card wired single
ended. I check, wired diffential, AIN0 and AIN8 for those that have used a 6024E card.

Read manual for card. Insert a 3K resistor from AIN8 to AI Ground. Nice and stable now.

Pull controller, make a plate to close up the 1/8 din opening so the 1/16 din control
fits.

Wire up control, power up, I get a error that says the controller has an internal
malfunction. CHIT.

Strip the control down to boards and put back together. Fires up with input 2 error. No
chit, Input 2 should be 0-10v but the control thinks it is configured for a type J t/c.

I'm getting really good punching in the configuration by now. Call to watlow has them
telling me I have some sort of ground loop. I'll play with it tomorrow but since the
control cabinet and pc are 6 feet apart, I'm leaning to they are full of ****. I will
make sure all signal grounds are tied to a single ground in the control cabinet if they
are not already tomorrow.



Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:38:45 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:45:22 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Used to be REAL common with socketed DIP RAM and DIP socketed
processors. Remember when virtual;ly every chip on a motherboard was
plugged into a socket????

My experience is over half the time when someone calls me to look at
equipment that is malfunctioning, it starts to work as soon as I get
within about 50 yards.


Oooooh!! You have the Healing Aura!!!!

Don't forget the majik words "Now, what seems to be the problem
with this?"

Isn't that "vas ees dee mattah mit deese?"
Fixes things up, right quick.

pyotr
former VW mechanic.

On 27 Aug 2010 00:34:04 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2010-08-26, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:04:53 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

[ ... ]

Oxidized connections at the connectors account for a very large
percentage of computer repairs, too. R&R connector, computer starts
working.


Used to be REAL common with socketed DIP RAM and DIP socketed
processors. Remember when virtual;ly every chip on a motherboard was
plugged into a socket????

That was when memory chips cost a significant fraction of the
cost of the board on which they were installed and it was beneficial to
be able to replace an individual (bad) chip.

And the common repair used to be to lift the computer (no hard
disk installed) a few inches off the table, hold it parallel to the
table and drop it to re-seat the chips. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.
I remember $8 and change for a 1K chip being a bargain - and you
needed 9 of them to make 1 K of ram in an 8 bit computer (8 bits plus
parity)
I still have some of the"schmutz" we used on the sockets to prevent
the corrosion - cost something like $80 an ounce back then - mixed it
10:1 or 20:1 with ethanol and spritzed it on the sockets before
installing chips or drizzled it over the pins of already installed
chips and pressed the chip in the socket to work it in. The darn stuff
worked pretty good, too.
Can't read the label any more.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:24:53 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2010-08-26, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:04:53 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

[ ... ]

Oxidized connections at the connectors account for a very large
percentage of computer repairs, too. R&R connector, computer starts
working.


Used to be REAL common with socketed DIP RAM and DIP socketed
processors. Remember when virtual;ly every chip on a motherboard was
plugged into a socket????

That was when memory chips cost a significant fraction of the
cost of the board on which they were installed and it was beneficial to
be able to replace an individual (bad) chip.

And the common repair used to be to lift the computer (no hard
disk installed) a few inches off the table, hold it parallel to the
table and drop it to re-seat the chips. :-)


Or to remove the chip, shove a goos machined pin IC socket into the
cheaper formed pin tyoe, then inset the chip into the new socket?
Some of our high end boards back in about 1986 had all machined pin
sockets on them. About double or triple the cost for a bare board than
with the spring pin sockets. All gold plated machined pins, too.

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 07:17:18 +0100, Ted Frater
wrote:

Gerald Miller wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:04:37 -0400, Wes
wrote:

"Buerste" wrote:

Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!


I don't have that problem. I show up and the machine starts working which frustrates the
person that called me.

Wes
To the point where they don't want to pay for a service call.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Then theres the temporary faulty car starter problem. Best cure is to
have mans oldest tool handy, thump the starter a couple of times then it
will work fine all week. And dont forget to slam the hood down well.This
always helps.
Sounds like my old Mini. always had loose connections on the battery
in the trunk - as well as having an SU fuel pump.
Jump in and turn on the key. If no "tickety tick_ in the back corner,
slam the door or get out and kick the left rear tire to start the fuel
pump, then get in and push the starter button. If it didn't crank,
slam the door again with the starter button pushed.
Or just reach out the window and slap it on the flank good and hard
and yell "giddy-up!!"

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:10:10 -0700, Winston
wrote:

On 8/27/2010 4:20 AM, Snag wrote:

And that's exactly where I am right now with the wife's car . Still don't
know what the problem was , and I'm just waiting for the "other shoe to
drop" . So far it's not given any more problems , but ...
Sometimes I miss the days of points and carbs . At least they were easier
to diagnose and repair . What really sucked about this one was that the
scanner wouldn't link up , making any diagnosis a shot in the dark .

* Is your Malfunction Indicator Light working?

* Can you tap out the appropriate code on the accelerator to get a
code readout on the MIL? (For example, see page EC-708:
http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/Sentra/2004_Sentra/ec.pdf

* Does your OBD II reader work on a different vehicle?

* Does your OBD II reader display indicate that it is
getting power? (Open fuse to the OBD data link connector?)

* Do you have a copy of the shop manual for the car?

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics

--Winston


I've had the same situation - but not a Nissan - answers:
q1-yes.Q2-What?(not nissan - no way to get codes without reader)
Q3 yes
Q4 yes
Q5 yes

My rather limited (pcode only) reader would connect up no problem -
but the higher end scanner to read ABS and other "chassis" codes
wouldn't connect for love or money.

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 05:32:33 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



Try it in my line of work..fixing high precison machine tools..CNC.

Client will call..telling me that out of 50 parts...2 of them are .010
off..the rest are perfect. And they take 2 minutes each to run. And its
random....

So I have to watch the ****ing machines for a minimum of 100 minutes
just to see if I can catch what the hell is going on. This after doing
a mechanical checkout that takes 15 minutes minumum..then tuning the
control, pulling all that sheetmetal off, checking couplers, ballscrews
etce etc etc.

Can **** away a whole day doing that. And you cant bill the client for
all that time either.


Gunner


I feel your pain, Gunner.
Client had (still has, I believe) a standard modern CNC lathe - would
crank out 100 good parts, then 5 parts 2 thou small, then 7 parts 4
thou small, then another 2 or 3 2 thou small then 105 good ones then 1
2 thou big, and 1 4 thou big, and then another 50 good ones, then50 or
more between 2 and 4 small.

You get the picture.
Darn thing used "resolvers" instead of quadrature encoders and they
were really finicky as far as noise in the lines. We ran sheilded
cable, did all kinds of tricks with grounding, separated the feed to
the computer from the feed to the motors, used isolation transformers,
and in combination finally got it down to the point he could get 1000
good parts out of a run of 1025.

I spent HOURS on that thing, a couple hours a day, a couple days a
week, for a period of several months.
He still owes me a few hours of free machining!!!!

I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

On 8/27/2010 8:50 PM, wrote:

(...)

My rather limited (pcode only) reader would connect up no problem -
but the higher end scanner to read ABS and other "chassis" codes
wouldn't connect for love or money.

Did you ever discover the problem?

--Winston

On 2010-08-28, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 07:17:18 +0100, Ted Frater
wrote:

[ ... ]

Then theres the temporary faulty car starter problem. Best cure is to
have mans oldest tool handy, thump the starter a couple of times then it
will work fine all week. And dont forget to slam the hood down well.This
always helps.

Sounds like my old Mini. always had loose connections on the battery
in the trunk - as well as having an SU fuel pump.
Jump in and turn on the key. If no "tickety tick_ in the back corner,
slam the door or get out and kick the left rear tire to start the fuel
pump, then get in and push the starter button. If it didn't crank,
slam the door again with the starter button pushed.
Or just reach out the window and slap it on the flank good and hard
and yell "giddy-up!!"

My MGAs had SU fuel pumps as well. If it quit on the road, the
trick to get gas to get to a safe place to start was to turn the
ignition key on and of several cycles (no steering lock so it was safe)
and this would pump enough fuel into the float bowls to drive for a
little while.

Then pull over, open the trunk and get out one half of the jack
rod, tilt the seats forward and remove the cover over the batteries (two
6V batteries, one on each side of the driveshaft), get back in, turn on
the ignition, and bring the end of the rod down smartly on the fuel pump
(behind the passenger's seat) and it would run for a while. Repeat as
needed until I could get to work or home, then climb under, unscrew the
nut securing the points cap, remove the bolts securing the toggle points
assembly, rotate a couple of turns to change the toggle point, and
reassemble. Fine for another year or so. :-) (I understand that they
later added a capacitor to reduce the burn rate on the points.)

As for the starter -- no pushbutton in the MGA -- you pull on
a knob which pulled a wire in a spiral steel sheath, to mechanically
close the contacts on the high current switch near the starter.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 00:00:03 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 05:32:33 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



Try it in my line of work..fixing high precison machine tools..CNC.

Client will call..telling me that out of 50 parts...2 of them are .010
off..the rest are perfect. And they take 2 minutes each to run. And its
random....

So I have to watch the ****ing machines for a minimum of 100 minutes
just to see if I can catch what the hell is going on. This after doing
a mechanical checkout that takes 15 minutes minumum..then tuning the
control, pulling all that sheetmetal off, checking couplers, ballscrews
etce etc etc.

Can **** away a whole day doing that. And you cant bill the client for
all that time either.


Gunner


I feel your pain, Gunner.
Client had (still has, I believe) a standard modern CNC lathe - would
crank out 100 good parts, then 5 parts 2 thou small, then 7 parts 4
thou small, then another 2 or 3 2 thou small then 105 good ones then 1
2 thou big, and 1 4 thou big, and then another 50 good ones, then50 or
more between 2 and 4 small.

You get the picture.
Darn thing used "resolvers" instead of quadrature encoders and they
were really finicky as far as noise in the lines. We ran sheilded
cable, did all kinds of tricks with grounding, separated the feed to
the computer from the feed to the motors, used isolation transformers,
and in combination finally got it down to the point he could get 1000
good parts out of a run of 1025.

I spent HOURS on that thing, a couple hours a day, a couple days a
week, for a period of several months.
He still owes me a few hours of free machining!!!!

Chuckle...in this case..it was the welding department. Seriously.

To hook up this Omniturn..they ran 100+ feet of #10!! wire from a
breaker panel in the welding department..along with another run of 14ga
from the same breaker panel for the control. The control powers the
servos.....

When they would fire up the grinder..hand grinder..on the same
circuit...it would spike the control..100' away.

The spike would only "occasionally" make it into the control.....shrug

Took me 2 days to figure it out...heard the grinder..saw a tiny flicker
of the control video out of the corner of my eye..measured the part...it
was off. Had them bury the grinder in raw stock over the next dozen
parts....all were off.

Whew...!

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

As for the starter -- no pushbutton in the MGA -- you pull on
a knob which pulled a wire in a spiral steel sheath, to mechanically
close the contacts on the high current switch near the starter.

No wonder Lucas is called 'The Prince of Darkness'.

Wes

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 18:30:28 -0400, Wes
wrote:

Gerald Miller wrote:

I don't have that problem. I show up and the machine starts working which frustrates the
person that called me.

Wes
To the point where they don't want to pay for a service call.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada


My customers are internal as in I'm on the inside dealing with issues inside the facility.

There has been one notable exception to my usual experiences. I have a test cell that
uses a temperature controller to cause programmed ramps of temperatures inside the test
cell.

On our older boxes, Labview running on the PC directly controls the heating system. The
newest stuff, well that was implemented by someone that isn't here anymore for many good
reasons.

Labview via a National Instruments DAQ card, changes the set point using 0-10v, the
chamber temp is read via a type J thermocouple, the scr heater controller is driven by a
4-20 MA signal from a Watlow controller. Labview needs to know what is happening so
another 0-10v output on the controller retransmits what the type J t/c on input 1 sees.

Well a month or so ago, the original controller died. It was only 5 years old but is now
out of production. So I buy something else Watlow makes and I have to wait a week for it
to be made since they can't get processor chips.

Well I get it, I install and configure it, it is working fine. Then I close the panel
door and the display winks out. FUG. It isn't a broken wire, I got a lemon. Any
vibration will reset it.

Okay fine. Try to order another one. Find out this month is the last time they are
making it. Next week the latest and greatest will be available and it costs 1/2. Well no
brainer, we can wait.

New controller shows up a day early, I stick it in, scratch my head reading the documents
and by the next day, it is working perfectly. I played with a couple parameters that
affect auto tune and that thing made a beautiful curve. Minimum overshoot, no
oscillations. Very nice. Only took about 3 trials to nail it.

Got noise problems though on process retransmit output. Prints show DAQ card wired single
ended. I check, wired diffential, AIN0 and AIN8 for those that have used a 6024E card.

Read manual for card. Insert a 3K resistor from AIN8 to AI Ground. Nice and stable now.

Pull controller, make a plate to close up the 1/8 din opening so the 1/16 din control
fits.

Wire up control, power up, I get a error that says the controller has an internal
malfunction. CHIT.

Strip the control down to boards and put back together. Fires up with input 2 error. No
chit, Input 2 should be 0-10v but the control thinks it is configured for a type J t/c.

I'm getting really good punching in the configuration by now. Call to watlow has them
telling me I have some sort of ground loop. I'll play with it tomorrow but since the
control cabinet and pc are 6 feet apart, I'm leaning to they are full of ****. I will
make sure all signal grounds are tied to a single ground in the control cabinet if they
are not already tomorrow.



Wes

I preferred Omrons or Eurotherms. Good luck.

Pete Keillor

Ted Frater wrote:


Then theres the temporary faulty car starter problem. Best cure is to
have mans oldest tool handy, thump the starter a couple of times then it
will work fine all week. And dont forget to slam the hood down well.This
always helps.

Good day Ted,

I was experiencing that in my VW van a little while back, it would
usually fail to start
at most inopportune time - I took the solenoid off the starter and ran
about 90 amps
(AC current) from my stick welder through the heavy contacts on the
solenoid while
operating the solenoid manually several times. Seems to have given it
a new lease on life, been working reliably since (so far anyway).

ymmv

Mike

wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:24:53 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
? wrote:

?
?"DoN. Nichols" wrote:
??
?? On 2010-08-26, ? wrote:
?? ? On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:04:53 -0700, Larry Jaques
?? ? wrote:
??
?? [ ... ]
??
?? ??Oxidized connections at the connectors account for a very large
?? ??percentage of computer repairs, too. R?R connector, computer starts
?? ??working.
?? ?
?? ?
?? ? Used to be REAL common with socketed DIP RAM and DIP socketed
?? ? processors. Remember when virtual;ly every chip on a motherboard was
?? ? plugged into a socket????
??
?? That was when memory chips cost a significant fraction of the
?? cost of the board on which they were installed and it was beneficial to
?? be able to replace an individual (bad) chip.
??
?? And the common repair used to be to lift the computer (no hard
?? disk installed) a few inches off the table, hold it parallel to the
?? table and drop it to re-seat the chips. :-)
?
?
? Or to remove the chip, shove a goos machined pin IC socket into the
?cheaper formed pin tyoe, then inset the chip into the new socket?
Some of our high end boards back in about 1986 had all machined pin
sockets on them. About double or triple the cost for a bare board than
with the spring pin sockets. All gold plated machined pins, too.


Yes, but they were worth it in some applications. I used to repair
Commodore 64 computers. I used machine pin sockets for repairs, if I
could get them.

I had one joker who wanted a fully socketed C64, but was too cheap to
pay for good sockets. I had a board that already had about 50% of the
ICs in sockets, so I pulled the other chips and installed the common AMP
leaf type sockets. He called me about a week later to complain that he
had to open the computer and wiggle all the ICs to get it to work, and
demanded hs money back, or he would tell everyone at the computer club.
I reminded him that it wasn't a good idea, and that he really didn't
want all those sockets. When he told the club, they laughed him out of
the building.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:38:45 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:45:22 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Used to be REAL common with socketed DIP RAM and DIP socketed
processors. Remember when virtual;ly every chip on a motherboard was
plugged into a socket????

My experience is over half the time when someone calls me to look at
equipment that is malfunctioning, it starts to work as soon as I get
within about 50 yards.


Oooooh!! You have the Healing Aura!!!!

Don't forget the majik words "Now, what seems to be the problem
with this?"
Fixes things up, right quick.

pyotr
former VW mechanic.

Oh, you're the guy who actually worked on 'em? I'm the guy who would
always say, with a smile "Oh, a VW? The crusher is over there."

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do,
we shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we
cannot do. -- Samuel Butler

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 05:32:33 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:45:19 -0700, Erik wrote:

In article ,
"Buerste" wrote:

Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's going
on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I spent hours
and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it wasn't frozen-up,
(the most common fault it seems) the motor worked, the thermostat checked
out, the heater passed muster. The water valve is OK and all cleaned out.
(I've replaced plenty of those in different units over the years). Of
course, I find nothing else that could cause it to crap out so put it all
back together and...it works just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if
not thousands of this kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

I too have experienced this numerous times... always makes me nervous.

Along the same lines is when someone asks me to 'take a look at
something', then together we can't make the damned thing act up to save
our asses. They're always embarrassed: often going on about the 'magic
touch' and all that jazz...

I know they wouldn't be there had they not experienced something
alarming, and suspect they'll fear further embarrassment returning
if/when/should said symptoms return. I always try to explain to them
that this isn't a new phenomena, and that I certainly possess no
mechanical/electrical/electronic 'supernatural powers', and please not
to hesitate contacting if said issues continue.

I hate both these situations... I'd MUCH rather deal with something
concrete than be left in the 'twilight zone'

Erik

Try it in my line of work..fixing high precison machine tools..CNC.

Client will call..telling me that out of 50 parts...2 of them are .010
off..the rest are perfect. And they take 2 minutes each to run. And its
random....

So I have to watch the ****ing machines for a minimum of 100 minutes
just to see if I can catch what the hell is going on. This after doing
a mechanical checkout that takes 15 minutes minumum..then tuning the
control, pulling all that sheetmetal off, checking couplers, ballscrews
etce etc etc.

Can **** away a whole day doing that. And you cant bill the client for
all that time either.

You _can_ and _should_ do precisely that, Gunner. If you're on-site,
it's billable time, period. (Unless you collect your fee and then hang
around on your own time.) I always let talkative new customers know
that, while I'm happy to stand and talk with them, it's billable time.
Diagnostic time is billable, so stop ruining your customers (making
them think your time is not valuable) and screwing yourself with that
concept. You'd never catch any mfgr's repairmen doing that. Why
should you? You're only billing these clients a third of what the Big
Boys charge as it is.

I've lost a couple customers from that, but the rest respect me for
it. (A couple have told me so.) Do what's right and bill them, G-mon.

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do,
we shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we
cannot do. -- Samuel Butler

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 05:31:27 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2010-08-28, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 07:17:18 +0100, Ted Frater wrote:
....
Then theres the temporary faulty car starter problem. Best cure is to
have mans oldest tool handy, thump the starter a couple of times then
it will work fine all week. And dont forget to slam the hood down
well.This always helps.

Sounds like my old Mini. always had loose connections on the battery
in the trunk - as well as having an SU fuel pump. Jump in and turn on
the key. If no "tickety tick_ in the back corner, slam the door or get
out and kick the left rear tire to start the fuel pump, then get in and
push the starter button. If it didn't crank, slam the door again with
the starter button pushed. Or just reach out the window and slap it on
the flank good and hard and yell "giddy-up!!"

My MGAs had SU fuel pumps as well. If it quit on the road, the
trick to get gas to get to a safe place to start was to turn the
ignition key on and of several cycles (no steering lock so it was safe)
and this would pump enough fuel into the float bowls to drive for a
little while.

Then pull over, open the trunk and get out one half of the jack
rod, tilt the seats forward and remove the cover over the batteries (two
6V batteries, one on each side of the driveshaft), get back in, turn on
the ignition, and bring the end of the rod down smartly on the fuel pump
(behind the passenger's seat) and it would run for a while. Repeat as
needed until I could get to work or home, then climb under, unscrew the
nut securing the points cap, remove the bolts securing the toggle points
assembly, rotate a couple of turns to change the toggle point, and
reassemble. Fine for another year or so. :-) (I understand that they
later added a capacitor to reduce the burn rate on the points.)
....

According to http://www.mgexperience.net/article/su-fuel-pumps-101.html
(which at the outset says, "As you all know, SU stands for Skinners
Union"), "Originally ... the only [arc] suppressor used was a
swamping resistor, in the form of resistance wire wrapped around the
coil and attached in parallel with it. As stronger coils that draw
more current were employed, a 0.47 microfarad capacitor was added to
assist ... ... With the introduction of the AUF 300 and AZX series
pumps, the capacitor was replaced with a diode to work in conjunction
with the swamping resistor ... ... Finally, the all electronic pumps
were introduced, which replaced the points with a Hall effect circuit
to control the current flow in the coil. These pumps look and operate
the same as the points style pumps, complete with the familiar tic,
tic, tic sound, but there is no longer any problem with point wear".

Then the article goes on to list the seven "more common problems
with SU fuel pumps" (burned and/or sticking points, stiffened
diaphragm, leakage past valves, broken pedestal, various fuel
leaks around loose or cracked parts, air leak, clogged lines)
and explains how to fix them.

--
jiw

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 09:35:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:38:45 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:45:22 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Used to be REAL common with socketed DIP RAM and DIP socketed
processors. Remember when virtual;ly every chip on a motherboard was
plugged into a socket????

My experience is over half the time when someone calls me to look at
equipment that is malfunctioning, it starts to work as soon as I get
within about 50 yards.


Oooooh!! You have the Healing Aura!!!!

Don't forget the majik words "Now, what seems to be the problem
with this?"
Fixes things up, right quick.

pyotr
former VW mechanic.

Oh, you're the guy who actually worked on 'em? I'm the guy who would
always say, with a smile "Oh, a VW? The crusher is over there."

I LOVE beetles! Well..except for the Super Beetle.

I ran the alarm department of a security firm that used bugs for oil
field patrols. Ran the **** out of them and hard too. Course we did
soup em up a bit and I wound up doing much of the mechanic work.

They had to change over to pickup trucks when decent bugs got hard to
find.

Some day Ill build up another one. Biggest problem with em was..no air
conditioning. Which sucks here in the desert.

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

Pete Keillor wrote:

I preferred Omrons or Eurotherms. Good luck.

I don't know if I'm gaining or not. I found that the data acq card didn't have the Analog
input and Analog output channels ground terminal tied to ground. So I added it. I
checked to make sure the control console was grounded to the control cabinet.

I didn't try really hard by power cycling the control too many times to see if it would
fail. We need the test cell up and running.

I've had good luck with Watlow going back to the days of 1/4 din stuff with dials and
meter movements at the old job.

Most things I deal with are easy fixes. Doesn't take long to find the problem when there
is one but from time to time you get a problem that doesn't want to go away. Often on
machines that have worked fine for years.

Never saw a Eurotherm before. Omron is pervasive.


Wes

Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's
going on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I
spent hours and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it
wasn't frozen-up, (the most common fault it seems) the motor worked,
the thermostat checked out, the heater passed muster. The water
valve is OK and all cleaned out. (I've replaced plenty of those in
different units over the years). Of course, I find nothing else that
could cause it to crap out so put it all back together and...it works
just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if not thousands of this
kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

Mechanical objects get lonely sometimes. Depressed.

Playing with their innards brings the meaning back into their life. Call it
a mid-life crisis, if you will.

Call any machine, and the chances are good, that the machinery will respond
to you.

Jon

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 10:49:46 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 09:35:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:38:45 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:
former VW mechanic.

Oh, you're the guy who actually worked on 'em? I'm the guy who would
always say, with a smile "Oh, a VW? The crusher is over there."

I LOVE beetles! Well..except for the Super Beetle.

Between hearing the heads flop 1/4 inch off-seat on acceleration,
seeing a gazillion of them on fire on the side of the road, getting my
hearing reamed by their high-pitched squeals, and being in a VW van
@45 degrees in a 40knot gust on a bridge near Mountain View, CA once,
I had my fill early on, thankyouverymuch.


I ran the alarm department of a security firm that used bugs for oil
field patrols. Ran the **** out of them and hard too. Course we did
soup em up a bit and I wound up doing much of the mechanic work.

They had to change over to pickup trucks when decent bugs got hard to
find.

Some day Ill build up another one. Biggest problem with em was..no air
conditioning. Which sucks here in the desert.

But at least they gave you carbon-monoxide-filled heat during the
winter, eh?

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do,
we shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we
cannot do. -- Samuel Butler

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:52:33 -0700, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's
going on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I
spent hours and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it
wasn't frozen-up, (the most common fault it seems) the motor worked,
the thermostat checked out, the heater passed muster. The water
valve is OK and all cleaned out. (I've replaced plenty of those in
different units over the years). Of course, I find nothing else that
could cause it to crap out so put it all back together and...it works
just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if not thousands of this
kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

Mechanical objects get lonely sometimes. Depressed.

Playing with their innards brings the meaning back into their life. Call it
a mid-life crisis, if you will.

Call any machine, and the chances are good, that the machinery will respond
to you.

While all of the preceeding is quite true, please be sure that you
never underestimate the innate animosity of inanimate objects.

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do,
we shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we
cannot do. -- Samuel Butler

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 18:23:30 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 10:49:46 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 09:35:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:38:45 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:
former VW mechanic.

Oh, you're the guy who actually worked on 'em? I'm the guy who would
always say, with a smile "Oh, a VW? The crusher is over there."

I LOVE beetles! Well..except for the Super Beetle.

Between hearing the heads flop 1/4 inch off-seat on acceleration,
seeing a gazillion of them on fire on the side of the road, getting my
hearing reamed by their high-pitched squeals, and being in a VW van
@45 degrees in a 40knot gust on a bridge near Mountain View, CA once,
I had my fill early on, thankyouverymuch.


You are talking about badly maintained bugs. They are almost as bad as
a badly maintained Caddy or Volvo or Chevette.

While they can indeed have issues, the technology is well mature, well
documented and has improved a 1000 fold from 1939..or 69

There are only two reasons we dont see them on the streets much anymore.

EPA regs and the simple fact VW stopped bringing them into the US. They
couldnt sell for as much as they could get for "improved" models.

They are still manufactured and run in South America and do yoemans duty
down there.

I ran the alarm department of a security firm that used bugs for oil
field patrols. Ran the **** out of them and hard too. Course we did
soup em up a bit and I wound up doing much of the mechanic work.

They had to change over to pickup trucks when decent bugs got hard to
find.

Some day Ill build up another one. Biggest problem with em was..no air
conditioning. Which sucks here in the desert.

But at least they gave you carbon-monoxide-filled heat during the
winter, eh?

Only on a poorly maintained one. Does your current ride ****
antifreeze on your foot from a poorly maintained heater core?

G

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 18:27:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:52:33 -0700, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's
going on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I
spent hours and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it
wasn't frozen-up, (the most common fault it seems) the motor worked,
the thermostat checked out, the heater passed muster. The water
valve is OK and all cleaned out. (I've replaced plenty of those in
different units over the years). Of course, I find nothing else that
could cause it to crap out so put it all back together and...it works
just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if not thousands of this
kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

Mechanical objects get lonely sometimes. Depressed.

Playing with their innards brings the meaning back into their life. Call it
a mid-life crisis, if you will.

Call any machine, and the chances are good, that the machinery will respond
to you.

While all of the preceeding is quite true, please be sure that you
never underestimate the innate animosity of inanimate objects.

Larry...most such objects are actually friendly! Like dogs..if you
express interest and care about their welfare..they respond nicely.
But..you have to do it on the same wavelength as they receive. And not
all machinery is the same "channel"

Then of course.. there are the "sports".

Like evil twisted inbred pitbulls..there are a few machines out there
that only want to kill/rend/tear/****/**** and **** over the nearest
human being.

Fortunately most are not in a position to do so..but some...shrug..can
and do. And the results can be....horrific.....brrrrrrr!!

I once had such a machine in my home. A 4 slot toaster. It tried to
kill or at the very least..**** off EVERY user except one (my wife).
Like a cat..it only had one owner. Biggest problem was..there were 6
people in the house. So my wife had her very own toaster for years,
the rest of us using a modest and hardworking 2 slice toaster who did
yoemans work for us. And I/we treasured it deeply. And it knew it and
appreciated it.

Her toaster ultimately had a mechanical problem that I solved with the
proper application of a 3lb shop hammer and my big Haybudden anvil,
followed by a toss over the fence, directly into the dumpster. And I
laughed..laughed as it died!

The new replacement evidently got the word and its been behaving nicely
for a number of years now. And I still use the trustworthy 2 slice and
talk to it, celebrate it, while its toasting. And it feels good about
itself.


Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 09:35:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:38:45 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:45:22 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Used to be REAL common with socketed DIP RAM and DIP socketed
processors. Remember when virtual;ly every chip on a motherboard was
plugged into a socket????

My experience is over half the time when someone calls me to look at
equipment that is malfunctioning, it starts to work as soon as I get
within about 50 yards.


Oooooh!! You have the Healing Aura!!!!

Don't forget the majik words "Now, what seems to be the problem
with this?"
Fixes things up, right quick.

pyotr
former VW mechanic.

Oh, you're the guy who actually worked on 'em? I'm the guy who would
always say, with a smile "Oh, a VW? The crusher is over there."

I LOVE beetles! Well..except for the Super Beetle.

I ran the alarm department of a security firm that used bugs for oil
field patrols. Ran the **** out of them and hard too. Course we did
soup em up a bit and I wound up doing much of the mechanic work.

They had to change over to pickup trucks when decent bugs got hard to
find.

Some day Ill build up another one. Biggest problem with em was..no air
conditioning. Which sucks here in the desert.

Gunner


I built one of these 30 years ago...actually I built two, one for a friend.
Most fun vehicle EVER!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VK0f...eature=related

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 18:27:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:52:33 -0700, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

Buerste wrote:
Something doesn't work so you take it apart and troubleshoot all the
components. You can't find anything wrong so you put it back together
and...IT WORKS PERFECT! It has happened to me for forever but what's
going on? My latest is the icemaker in the kitchen refrigerator. I
spent hours and hours finding documents and troubleshooting. No, it
wasn't frozen-up, (the most common fault it seems) the motor worked,
the thermostat checked out, the heater passed muster. The water
valve is OK and all cleaned out. (I've replaced plenty of those in
different units over the years). Of course, I find nothing else that
could cause it to crap out so put it all back together and...it works
just fine. Go figure. I've had hundreds if not thousands of this
kind of thing, I'll bet everybody else does too!

Mechanical objects get lonely sometimes. Depressed.

Playing with their innards brings the meaning back into their life. Call it
a mid-life crisis, if you will.

Call any machine, and the chances are good, that the machinery will respond
to you.

While all of the preceeding is quite true, please be sure that you
never underestimate the innate animosity of inanimate objects.

Larry...most such objects are actually friendly! Like dogs..if you
express interest and care about their welfare..they respond nicely.
But..you have to do it on the same wavelength as they receive. And not
all machinery is the same "channel"

Then of course.. there are the "sports".

Like evil twisted inbred pitbulls..there are a few machines out there
that only want to kill/rend/tear/****/**** and **** over the nearest
human being.

Fortunately most are not in a position to do so..but some...shrug..can
and do. And the results can be....horrific.....brrrrrrr!!

I once had such a machine in my home. A 4 slot toaster. It tried to
kill or at the very least..**** off EVERY user except one (my wife).
Like a cat..it only had one owner. Biggest problem was..there were 6
people in the house. So my wife had her very own toaster for years,
the rest of us using a modest and hardworking 2 slice toaster who did
yoemans work for us. And I/we treasured it deeply. And it knew it and
appreciated it.

Her toaster ultimately had a mechanical problem that I solved with the
proper application of a 3lb shop hammer and my big Haybudden anvil,
followed by a toss over the fence, directly into the dumpster. And I
laughed..laughed as it died!

The new replacement evidently got the word and its been behaving nicely
for a number of years now. And I still use the trustworthy 2 slice and
talk to it, celebrate it, while its toasting. And it feels good about
itself.


You're supposed to set the new one in the shop, so it cansee what
happens to unruly equipment.

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.