The other day, a guy asked me how to remove stuck bolts. It was a
general question; he didn't have a specific problem at that moment.
As I started to answer him, I kept having to backtrack, explaining
that a particular situation begets a particular range of solutions.

That got me to thinking about how pervasive this problem is to modern
man and how uncomfortable I am when I have to go about it.

So, I put up a webpage that focuses on simply defining the problem:

http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html

Right now I am in the process of reviving an old Onan 6.5KW RV-style
generator set and it has numerous stuck bolts. Some of them are steel
bolts, about 1/4-20 in size, stuck into aluminum. There is lots of rust.
In my googling around I have found references to "Bolt Extractor
Sockets".
Have any of you folks tried them and what have your experiences been?

And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?

Pete Stanaitis

Steve B wrote:

"spaco" wrote in message
.. .
The other day, a guy asked me how to remove stuck bolts. It was a general
question; he didn't have a specific problem at that moment.
As I started to answer him, I kept having to backtrack, explaining that
a particular situation begets a particular range of solutions.

That got me to thinking about how pervasive this problem is to modern man
and how uncomfortable I am when I have to go about it.

So, I put up a webpage that focuses on simply defining the problem:

http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html

Right now I am in the process of reviving an old Onan 6.5KW RV-style
generator set and it has numerous stuck bolts. Some of them are steel
bolts, about 1/4-20 in size, stuck into aluminum. There is lots of rust.
In my googling around I have found references to "Bolt Extractor
Sockets".
Have any of you folks tried them and what have your experiences been?

And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?

Pete Stanaitis

PB Blaster. If that don't work, go to plan B. Let it sit for 24 hours, and
apply more than once if it looks like it evaporated off.

Steve

Kroil, soak time and heat.

"spaco" wrote in message
.. .
The other day, a guy asked me how to remove stuck bolts. It was a general
question; he didn't have a specific problem at that moment.
As I started to answer him, I kept having to backtrack, explaining that
a particular situation begets a particular range of solutions.

That got me to thinking about how pervasive this problem is to modern man
and how uncomfortable I am when I have to go about it.

So, I put up a webpage that focuses on simply defining the problem:

http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html

Right now I am in the process of reviving an old Onan 6.5KW RV-style
generator set and it has numerous stuck bolts. Some of them are steel
bolts, about 1/4-20 in size, stuck into aluminum. There is lots of rust.
In my googling around I have found references to "Bolt Extractor
Sockets".
Have any of you folks tried them and what have your experiences been?

And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?

Pete Stanaitis

PB Blaster. If that don't work, go to plan B. Let it sit for 24 hours, and
apply more than once if it looks like it evaporated off.

Steve

On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 11:45:42 -0800, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



"Pete C." wrote in message
nster.com...

Steve B wrote:

"spaco" wrote in message
.. .
The other day, a guy asked me how to remove stuck bolts. It was a
general
question; he didn't have a specific problem at that moment.
As I started to answer him, I kept having to backtrack, explaining
that
a particular situation begets a particular range of solutions.

That got me to thinking about how pervasive this problem is to modern
man
and how uncomfortable I am when I have to go about it.

So, I put up a webpage that focuses on simply defining the problem:

http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html

Right now I am in the process of reviving an old Onan 6.5KW RV-style
generator set and it has numerous stuck bolts. Some of them are steel
bolts, about 1/4-20 in size, stuck into aluminum. There is lots of
rust.
In my googling around I have found references to "Bolt Extractor
Sockets".
Have any of you folks tried them and what have your experiences been?

And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?

Pete Stanaitis

PB Blaster. If that don't work, go to plan B. Let it sit for 24 hours,
and
apply more than once if it looks like it evaporated off.

Steve

Kroil, soak time and heat.

I'd second above - apply and let soak, repeat for several days, wiggling
bolts each time - brush away loose rust, etc each time.
Smack it lightly on the head with a light hammer every couple hours
when soaking. Breaks up the rust crystals and gets the penetrant down
where it does some good.


In steel I like to just heat the bolt red hot, and then quench it a
couple times, then heat and let cool while melting a wax candle on
it.Tapping it with a hammer a few times helps at this point.

Usually brings them out . If all else fails, use the "blue point stud
extractor" very carefully to burn the bolt out of the hole.

"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
The bolt extractor sockets work fairly well for hex-shaped fasteners. The
sockets need a little room (laterally) to bite into the fastener for a
good grip.
They proved to be very useful for removing rusted brake line nuts after
cutting the lines away from the line nuts.

The most important aspect of the sockets is likely to be the quality of
the steel that they're made with.
It's probably likely that some users pound the sockets onto the fastener
with a hammer, and use them with impact wrenches.

Another rusted fastener method is heating the fastener, and applying
candle wax. Since paraffin is a product that's commonly found in many
lubricants, the paraffin is beneficial when it reaches the threads.

I believe someone here once recommended beeswax as having a higher melting
point.

On Dec 19, 10:06*am, spaco wrote:
The other day, a guy asked me how to remove stuck bolts. *It was a
general question; he didn't have a specific problem at that moment.
* *As I started to answer him, I kept having to backtrack, explaining
that *a particular situation begets a particular range of solutions.

That got me to thinking about how pervasive this problem is to modern
man and how uncomfortable I am when I have to go about it.

So, I put up a webpage that focuses on simply defining the problem:

http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html

Right now I am in the process of reviving an old Onan 6.5KW RV-style
generator set and it has numerous stuck bolts. *Some of them are steel
bolts, about 1/4-20 in size, stuck into aluminum. *There is lots of rust.

spaco wrote:
The other day, a guy asked me how to remove stuck bolts. It was a
general question; he didn't have a specific problem at that moment.
As I started to answer him, I kept having to backtrack, explaining
that a particular situation begets a particular range of solutions.

That got me to thinking about how pervasive this problem is to modern
man and how uncomfortable I am when I have to go about it.

So, I put up a webpage that focuses on simply defining the problem:

http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html

Right now I am in the process of reviving an old Onan 6.5KW RV-style
generator set and it has numerous stuck bolts. Some of them are steel
bolts, about 1/4-20 in size, stuck into aluminum. There is lots of rust.
In my googling around I have found references to "Bolt Extractor
Sockets".
Have any of you folks tried them and what have your experiences been?

And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?

Pete Stanaitis

I start with a good fitting tool appropriate to the fastener.

Then first try is with some PBlaster.
If nothing then I use a punch the size of the bolt shank centered on the
head to shock straight down through the shank.
Then I apply some heat and stick a cheap candle at the joint. This
usually will wick down through the threads and help.
If none of the above work and the shank will be above the surface once
the parts are separated I will grind the head flat. Then drill through
the head and take it apart. Then remove the rest using HEAT to the shank.

Usually some lube and a couple hits breaks them free.
In the event its a steel item in aluminum I'll use some alum and soak it
to eat out the steel.

I have a couple complete sets of the Irwin Bolt-Out sockets. One of the
best tools I have for a specific use.

--
Steve W.

Wes wrote:

spaco wrote:

And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?

Left hand twist drills.

Followed by easy out.

If possible to accurately locate hole, run a two flute endmill sized near the tap drill
for the thread down the center of hole and pick out the threads.

Or in combination of all three.


Oops. Read that as broken bolt. Save mine for after you bust the head off

Wes


--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

"Broken" bolt is fine for this thread. I have just about all of the above.
Just came in from shearing off 2 6-32 machine screw heads with a Cape
chisel to get to a defective circuit breaker. When I got the cirucit
breaker out, I had a good bit of shank sticking out, but when I turned
them with a my favorite little gripping pliers (like tiny water pump
pliers), the brass insert turned in the plastic body. It was already
bad, so I am replacing it anyway.

I wonder, do they teach this stuff in tech schools?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

Wes wrote:

Wes wrote:


spaco wrote:


And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?

Left hand twist drills.

Followed by easy out.

If possible to accurately locate hole, run a two flute endmill sized near the tap drill
for the thread down the center of hole and pick out the threads.

Or in combination of all three.



Oops. Read that as broken bolt. Save mine for after you bust the head off

Wes


--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

In article ,
"ATP*" wrote:

"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
The bolt extractor sockets work fairly well for hex-shaped fasteners. The
sockets need a little room (laterally) to bite into the fastener for a
good grip.
They proved to be very useful for removing rusted brake line nuts after
cutting the lines away from the line nuts.

The most important aspect of the sockets is likely to be the quality of
the steel that they're made with.
It's probably likely that some users pound the sockets onto the fastener
with a hammer, and use them with impact wrenches.

Another rusted fastener method is heating the fastener, and applying
candle wax. Since paraffin is a product that's commonly found in many
lubricants, the paraffin is beneficial when it reaches the threads.

I believe someone here once recommended beeswax as having a higher melting
point.

I recall that wax dissolves in naptha, so one dodge would be to dissolve
wax in naptha and apply that the the stuck bolt, the theory being that
the naptha will carry the wax into every nook and cranny. I'll try this
next time the issue comes up.

Joe Gwinn

I have heard a couple of referances to "Kroil "& "PBlaster " in this
thread, but to the ebst of my knowledge, neither are available in Australia.
What are they made of? I've used a mixture of diesel fuel and automatic
transmission oil a few times and it seems to work reasonably well. I have a
1900's steam pump restoration comming up shortly and I will need all the
help I can get. It's been sitting in th shop now for about 6 months and I
give all the threads a squirt of Lanoliptus whenever I think of it.
(Lanoliptus is a mixture of eucalyptus and lanolin in a pressure pack) I'm
expecting that at minimum, a lot of heat and bad language will be required
to get any of those rusty old bolts out. I'll be using all the hints from
the website as well


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 11:45:42 -0800, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



"Pete C." wrote in message
onster.com...

Steve B wrote:

"spaco" wrote in message
.. .
The other day, a guy asked me how to remove stuck bolts. It was a
general
question; he didn't have a specific problem at that moment.
As I started to answer him, I kept having to backtrack, explaining
that
a particular situation begets a particular range of solutions.

That got me to thinking about how pervasive this problem is to modern
man
and how uncomfortable I am when I have to go about it.

So, I put up a webpage that focuses on simply defining the problem:

http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html

Right now I am in the process of reviving an old Onan 6.5KW RV-style
generator set and it has numerous stuck bolts. Some of them are
steel
bolts, about 1/4-20 in size, stuck into aluminum. There is lots of
rust.
In my googling around I have found references to "Bolt Extractor
Sockets".
Have any of you folks tried them and what have your experiences
been?

And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?

Pete Stanaitis

PB Blaster. If that don't work, go to plan B. Let it sit for 24
hours,
and
apply more than once if it looks like it evaporated off.

Steve

Kroil, soak time and heat.

I'd second above - apply and let soak, repeat for several days, wiggling
bolts each time - brush away loose rust, etc each time.
Smack it lightly on the head with a light hammer every couple hours
when soaking. Breaks up the rust crystals and gets the penetrant down
where it does some good.


In steel I like to just heat the bolt red hot, and then quench it a
couple times, then heat and let cool while melting a wax candle on
it.Tapping it with a hammer a few times helps at this point.

Usually brings them out . If all else fails, use the "blue point stud
extractor" very carefully to burn the bolt out of the hole.

On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 11:49:13 -0800, the infamous "Bill McKee"
scrawled the following:


"Bill Noble" wrote in message
...


"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Steve B wrote:

"spaco" wrote in message
.. .
The other day, a guy asked me how to remove stuck bolts. It was a
general
question; he didn't have a specific problem at that moment.
As I started to answer him, I kept having to backtrack, explaining
that
a particular situation begets a particular range of solutions.

That got me to thinking about how pervasive this problem is to modern
man
and how uncomfortable I am when I have to go about it.

So, I put up a webpage that focuses on simply defining the problem:

http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html

Right now I am in the process of reviving an old Onan 6.5KW RV-style
generator set and it has numerous stuck bolts. Some of them are steel
bolts, about 1/4-20 in size, stuck into aluminum. There is lots of
rust.
In my googling around I have found references to "Bolt Extractor
Sockets".
Have any of you folks tried them and what have your experiences
been?

And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?

Pete Stanaitis

PB Blaster. If that don't work, go to plan B. Let it sit for 24 hours,
and
apply more than once if it looks like it evaporated off.

Steve

Kroil, soak time and heat.

I'd second above - apply and let soak, repeat for several days, wiggling
bolts each time - brush away loose rust, etc each time.

Plus then an Impact Driver. I like to shim it enough that the blow also
hits the head of the bolt down, just not in a twisting motion.

Yeah, impact driver to start with, plus Loosener's Castor Oil Flakes
and soak time.

--
This episode raises disturbing questions about scientific standards,
at least in highly political areas such as global warming. Still,
it's remarkable to see how quickly corrective information can now
spread. After years of ignored freedom-of-information requests and
stonewalling, all it took was disclosure to change the debate. Even
the most influential scientists must prove their case in the court
of public opinion—a court that, thanks to the Web, is one where
eventually all views get a hearing. --Gordon Crovitz, WSJ 12/9/09

On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:14:53 +1100, "Grumpy"
wrote:

I have heard a couple of referances to "Kroil "& "PBlaster " in this
thread, but to the ebst of my knowledge, neither are available in Australia.
What are they made of? I've used a mixture of diesel fuel and automatic
transmission oil a few times and it seems to work reasonably well. I have a
1900's steam pump restoration comming up shortly and I will need all the
help I can get. It's been sitting in th shop now for about 6 months and I
give all the threads a squirt of Lanoliptus whenever I think of it.
(Lanoliptus is a mixture of eucalyptus and lanolin in a pressure pack) I'm
expecting that at minimum, a lot of heat and bad language will be required
to get any of those rusty old bolts out. I'll be using all the hints from
the website as well

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=428473

While described as bore cleaners, ed's red is also a very good
penetrating oil.
http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-foru...-oil-test.html
Acetone/ATF seems to be the winner

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newf...ad.php?t=34427

Kroil website indicates Austrailian distribution
http://www.thomasnet.com/profile/874...ories-inc.html




Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

"Grumpy" wrote in message
. au...


I have heard a couple of referances to "Kroil "& "PBlaster " in this
thread, but to the ebst of my knowledge, neither are available in
Australia.

Ask around at your fixit shops or parts supplier. I'm sure they have an
equivalent.

Steve

Grumpy wrote:
I have heard a couple of referances to "Kroil "& "PBlaster " in this
thread, but to the ebst of my knowledge, neither are available in Australia.
What are they made of? I've used a mixture of diesel fuel and automatic
transmission oil a few times and it seems to work reasonably well. I have a
1900's steam pump restoration comming up shortly and I will need all the
help I can get. It's been sitting in th shop now for about 6 months and I
give all the threads a squirt of Lanoliptus whenever I think of it.
(Lanoliptus is a mixture of eucalyptus and lanolin in a pressure pack) I'm
expecting that at minimum, a lot of heat and bad language will be required
to get any of those rusty old bolts out. I'll be using all the hints from
the website as well





My old time favourite is Penetrene , but it's near impossible to find
here in Oz now.
I still have a couple of litres left and I use it sparingly now.

--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."

I got a can of Kroil years ago. I didn't use it enough to
know if it worked any better or worse than other products.
Many folks says it does.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Buerste" wrote in message
...


I used to buy Kroil in 15 gal drums to use as a wire lube.
It would creep
into 3" dia bundles of cut steel wire very quickly. If left
alone, it would
evaporate and leave the perfect surface finish to make it
flow into the wire
brush machines. If we didn't let it dry due to time
constraints we would
work corn starch into the bundles. I convinced the wire
mills to use Kroil
in their drawing processes and after tempering so my wire
and all the mills'
output is pre-Kroiled. Kano should send me a BIG check,
these guys use
truck loads of Kroil.

So, we always had plenty of Kroil around for stuck
fasteners. A hot
fastener and Kroil has yet to fail to come apart.

I doubt they teach anything useful, in schools.

I've found that.....

* Impact wrench will remove bolts that a breaker bar shears
off. This, from experience replacing rear shocks, on a rusty
truck.
* Name brand Vise Grips will remove screws, etc, that Harbor
Freight brand locking pliers won't. Cause the HF pliers slip
off. No matter how tightly you crank em down.
* Heat and beat works on rusted on nuts. Heat em up with a
torch, and then hammer the flats of the nut.
* Penetrating oil and hammer sometimes will loosen nuts.
Like the one time I was trying to get a pitman arm off a
steering gear box.
* Propane torch (times two) and then breaker bar with
extender works on strut rod bushing nut, 1 1/8 inch socket
needed. This is before I got impact wrench. I figure the
impact wrench woulda worked fine.
* Pound a socket on, and then turn gently works on rusted
bolts, on differential cover.
* If a nut and bolt don't come apart with a pull on a
breaker bar, you need to heat and beat, or use the impact
wrench. If you keep cranking with the 25 inch breaker bar,
the bolt will snap. This on a friend's wife's Dodge minivan.
Taking the front wheel assembly apart for some reason I
can't remember. The nut didn't want to loosen. I had my Mapp
torch, but he didn't want to use heat. The bolt snapped, and
we had to go chase auto parts and try to find another one.
We didn't, and ended up using a common nut and bolt. Oh,
well. She junked the van shortly after that, and it didn't
matter.


--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"spaco" wrote in message
news "Broken" bolt is fine for this thread. I have just about
all of the above.
Just came in from shearing off 2 6-32 machine screw heads
with a Cape
chisel to get to a defective circuit breaker. When I got
the cirucit
breaker out, I had a good bit of shank sticking out, but
when I turned
them with a my favorite little gripping pliers (like tiny
water pump
pliers), the brass insert turned in the plastic body. It
was already
bad, so I am replacing it anyway.

I wonder, do they teach this stuff in tech schools?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

Ronsonol lighter fluid melts candle wax. If my memory is
working. I wonder if you can melt some candle wax in a
double boiler. Squirt in a bunch of ronsonol, and stir it
up. After you turn off the stove, and take the mix outdoors,
I reccomend.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...

I believe someone here once recommended beeswax as having
a higher melting
point.

I recall that wax dissolves in naptha, so one dodge would be
to dissolve
wax in naptha and apply that the the stuck bolt, the theory
being that
the naptha will carry the wax into every nook and cranny.
I'll try this
next time the issue comes up.

Joe Gwinn

"Grumpy" wrote in
. au:



I have heard a couple of referances to "Kroil "& "PBlaster " in this
thread, but to the ebst of my knowledge, neither are available in
Australia. What are they made of? I've used a mixture of diesel fuel
and automatic transmission oil a few times and it seems to work
reasonably well. I have a 1900's steam pump restoration comming up
shortly and I will need all the help I can get. It's been sitting in
th shop now for about 6 months and I give all the threads a squirt of
Lanoliptus whenever I think of it. (Lanoliptus is a mixture of
eucalyptus and lanolin in a pressure pack) I'm expecting that at
minimum, a lot of heat and bad language will be required to get any of
those rusty old bolts out. I'll be using all the hints from the
website as well

According to this:

http://www.ssaa.org.au/stories/hints...a-firearm.html

you may be able to get Kroil from a shooting supply place. It's very
popular for cleaning bench rest rifles. They also mention Penetrene,
which is the local equivalent.

Or you can contact Kano Labs directly & see if they have a distributor in
Australia.

Doug White

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Ronsonol lighter fluid melts candle wax. ...

Lighter fluid is naphtha is benzine. Bob

On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:30:38 -0600, spaco
wrote:

"Broken" bolt is fine for this thread. I have just about all of the above.
Just came in from shearing off 2 6-32 machine screw heads with a Cape
chisel to get to a defective circuit breaker. When I got the cirucit
breaker out, I had a good bit of shank sticking out, but when I turned
them with a my favorite little gripping pliers (like tiny water pump
pliers), the brass insert turned in the plastic body. It was already
bad, so I am replacing it anyway.

I wonder, do they teach this stuff in tech schools?

They might still teach it in Oz, but in the USA industrial arts
training in primary schools has gone the way of the Dodo and the
Passenger Pigeon, thanks to the ubiquitious liability lawsuit.

The Boomer and Echo generations were about the end of real shop
classes - they were already severely watering them down as I went
through, and several machines had either been removed as UNSAFE! or
locked off and tagged 'For Instructor Use Only" - you could do the
setup but had to get your teacher to run the machine it for you... A
good friend that taught Electronics and Stage Craft had to teach
Sciences for the last few years before retirement, as all the Shops
programs had been shut down.

The school districts got tired of students finding the most
inventive ways to hurt themselves or prank another student (Iodine
Trinitride, or take another students electronics project and add a
large electrolytic capacitor straight across the120VAC line cord...)
but sometimes they underestimated the dangers and killed somebody.
Then the "grieving" parents would call a Shark in a 3-piece suit and
sue for everything they could get.

Burn a school district for several million bucks a few times, they
sell off all the lathes and welders and printing presses, and teach
something safe and benign like Art and Web Design.

You have to wait till you get into a College or Vocational/
Technical School environment to learn these things, because by then
you have reached the age of majority - and are expected to take
responsibility for your own safety related fsck-ups.

Unfortunately, by the time they can get the mechanical arts
education, most of those who would have been receptive 10 years ago
have atrophied into nice retail clerks and burger-flippers. Some
things you really have to start young to understand.

-- Bruce --

On Dec 19, 10:06*am, spaco wrote:
The other day, a guy asked me how to remove stuck bolts. *It was a
general question; he didn't have a specific problem at that moment.
* *As I started to answer him, I kept having to backtrack, explaining
that *a particular situation begets a particular range of solutions.

That got me to thinking about how pervasive this problem is to modern
man and how uncomfortable I am when I have to go about it.

So, I put up a webpage that focuses on simply defining the problem:

http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html

Right now I am in the process of reviving an old Onan 6.5KW RV-style
generator set and it has numerous stuck bolts. *Some of them are steel
bolts, about 1/4-20 in size, stuck into aluminum. *There is lots of rust.

Larry Jaques wrote:


Yeah, impact driver to start with, plus Loosener's Castor Oil Flakes
and soak time.

"The All Weather Breakfast! Loosners's!"

David

On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:14:53 +1100, "Grumpy"
wrote:



I have heard a couple of referances to "Kroil "& "PBlaster " in this
thread, but to the ebst of my knowledge, neither are available in Australia.
What are they made of? I've used a mixture of diesel fuel and automatic
transmission oil a few times and it seems to work reasonably well.

SNIP


Hey Grumpy,

I have never seen Kroil here locally, but we can get PBblaster in a
spray-bomb. Big bucks.

Anyway, I was happy recently with a concoction noted here on RCM, a
50/50 mix of acetone and ATF. Worked for me on a 1/2" socket head cap
screw that was rusted in over it's 2" threaded length. Someone else
had actually broken the side out of the head in a previous attempt.
Soaked it for a couple of days in the mix, and used no heat.

I've made up a bottle full for future use, with a "mixture label" on
it so I won't forget.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

Thanks for all your input.
I learned several methods that I hadn't tried before.
One thing I could still use help with is actually getting the hole in
the exact center when drilling out a fastener. The @##$$$%^%^^^ bolt
never seems to be in a decent position to get straight at it. I center
punch as best I can, then drill undersize so I have room to correct, but
I'm never sure exactly where the center is until its pretty late in
the game. I sure wish that drill motors had X and Y levels on them!

I added your comments to the webpage that I put up yesterday or so,
http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html

Thanks again,
Pete Stanaitis
----------------

In article ,
spaco wrote:

Do you have natural gas in Australia? I worked in a heat treating plant
years ago and we used a lot of natural gas for the furnaces. Each
furnace's feeder pipe had a drip leg to catch condensation before the
gas went into the valves. These drip legs are even put on residential
furnaces, by the way. Anyhow, since we used a LOT of gas, each drip leg
had a drain cock and it was the job of the maintenance crew to empty
these drip legs on a regular basis. They saved that condensate and used
it as we use PB Blaster, etc. It smelled a lot like PB Blaster. They
swore by it.

Pete Stanaitis

Way back when I was kid, a neighbor who was one of those old time, life
long 'real' mechanics of years past told me the original Liquid Wrench
was condensate drained from New York's gas street light plumbing system.

He said when it first hit the market it worked well enough, but reeked
bad enough to gag a buzzard on sight. Supposedly, it was some while
before they de-stenched to tolerable levels.

Also remember him saying it was a God send to steam locomotive and
marine techs.

Erik

G'day Bluey
Penetrene is as rare as rocking horse manure these days as well. I think
I'll try some of the ATF /varsol/ acetone mixtures and see what happens.
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.




"Kevin(Bluey)" wrote in message
news
Grumpy wrote:
I have heard a couple of referances to "Kroil "& "PBlaster " in this
thread, but to the ebst of my knowledge, neither are available in
Australia. What are they made of? I've used a mixture of diesel fuel and
automatic transmission oil a few times and it seems to work reasonably
well. I have a 1900's steam pump restoration comming up shortly and I
will need all the help I can get. It's been sitting in th shop now for
about 6 months and I give all the threads a squirt of Lanoliptus whenever
I think of it. (Lanoliptus is a mixture of eucalyptus and lanolin in a
pressure pack) I'm expecting that at minimum, a lot of heat and bad
language will be required to get any of those rusty old bolts out. I'll
be using all the hints from the website as well





My old time favourite is Penetrene , but it's near impossible to find here
in Oz now.
I still have a couple of litres left and I use it sparingly now.

--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."

Grumpy wrote:
G'day Bluey
Penetrene is as rare as rocking horse manure these days as well. I think
I'll try some of the ATF /varsol/ acetone mixtures and see what happens.
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.


..

Seems Penetrene is still available here in Oz .
Idid aGoogle search ansd all I could find was a horse linament of the
same name .
Then I found this

http://www2.totalfasteners.com.au
They stock it in 500ml , 1 ltr bottles , 400ml aerosol and 5 liter cans
..,they even say they can supply 200litre drums.




"Kevin(Bluey)" wrote in message
news
Grumpy wrote:
I have heard a couple of referances to "Kroil "& "PBlaster " in this
thread, but to the ebst of my knowledge, neither are available in
Australia. What are they made of? I've used a mixture of diesel fuel and
automatic transmission oil a few times and it seems to work reasonably
well. I have a 1900's steam pump restoration comming up shortly and I
will need all the help I can get. It's been sitting in th shop now for
about 6 months and I give all the threads a squirt of Lanoliptus whenever
I think of it. (Lanoliptus is a mixture of eucalyptus and lanolin in a
pressure pack) I'm expecting that at minimum, a lot of heat and bad
language will be required to get any of those rusty old bolts out. I'll
be using all the hints from the website as well




My old time favourite is Penetrene , but it's near impossible to find here
in Oz now.
I still have a couple of litres left and I use it sparingly now.

--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."






--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."

Thank you. I usually avoid easy outs, because the possibility of having
to remove a broken one was such a negative thought. I see now when
using one is appropriate.

Pete Stanaitis
--------------------

For getting a drill centered on a section of a bolt that's a bit higher than
the surrounding metal, one could make up a set of drill bushings on a lathe,
that would center a pilot drill.
The bushings should get the drill started in the center, but won't help a
lot with axial pitch.
Not so simple when the bolt breaks off flush, though.

Managing a Dremel-type tool can be easier than trying to use a moderately
large drill motor to get a center start on a broken fastener.

Having a magnetic base drill for steel/iron base material would definitely
be helpful with keeping the drill on the axial center.
Mag base drills are generally large and expensive, but the recent shop-built
magnetic chucks made with high strength hard drive magnets shows that it may
be possible to make a smaller version for pilot drilling broken fasteners.

Another tool that would help get a drill centered and keep the drill on the
axial center would be a Cole drill. The foot/base that comes with the Cole
allows for easy attachment to an adjacent fastener hole (head surface on a
vehicle engine block, for example).
Again, this example isn't very compact, but an inspired HSM could make some
brackets to support a spindle and chuck, that would hold a drill
perpendicular to a surface.

I remember seeing a drill motor with bubble vials on it a number of years
ago, I don't remember the brand, or how long ago it was.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"spaco" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all your input.
I learned several methods that I hadn't tried before.
One thing I could still use help with is actually getting the hole in the
exact center when drilling out a fastener. The @##$$$%^%^^^ bolt never
seems to be in a decent position to get straight at it. I center punch as
best I can, then drill undersize so I have room to correct, but I'm never
sure exactly where the center is until its pretty late in the game. I
sure wish that drill motors had X and Y levels on them!

I added your comments to the webpage that I put up yesterday or so,
http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html

Thanks again,
Pete Stanaitis
----------------

Drill motors are made with bubbles, but bubbles are easily added with
double-stick tape (and shims if needed) to other drill motors.

A carbide burr in a dremel-type (die grinder for the well equipped
folks) tool is good for making a starting hole (and grinding out broken
drills/extractors/taps, if need be - though it goes faster if you don't
have to deal with those hard obstructions). Roto-zip tile cutters are a
convenient hardware store source for carbide burrs, and they side-cut
enough that you won't likely get that stuck if you manage to break it
off in the hole.

The "candle wax trick" was lauded at anther place I frequent dealing
with old machinery. I haven't tried it much yet. In thinking about it,
it also offers the ability to do something about fasteners you may not
plan to take out now, but which may not have been put in with anti-size
- fill 'em up with wax now, and at least they won't be full of water and
rusting (more) between now and when you get to them.

As for putting things back in, antiseize or loc-tite (depending on the
fastener) will pay large dividends the next time you need to take it
apart. Guy I sold my dead chevy to (for parts) was amazed when he took
the springs (I'd replaced a decade or so earlier) off, since I had put
them in with anti-sieze and silicone grease. Came right apart, no fuss.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

On Dec 20, 11:17*pm, spaco wrote:
Thanks for all your input.
I learned several methods that I hadn't tried before.
One thing I could still use help with is actually getting the hole in
the exact center when drilling out a fastener. *The @##$$$%^%^^^ bolt
never seems to be in a decent position to get straight at it. *I center
punch as best I can, then drill undersize so I have room to correct, but
* I'm never sure exactly where the center is until its pretty late in
the game. *I sure wish that drill motors had X and Y levels on them!

* *I added your comments to the webpage that I *put up yesterday or so,
*http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html

Thanks again,
Pete Stanaitis
----------------

That is truly a problem, especially if the screw is broken off right
at the surface. The threads make it awfully tough to tell where the
true center is. And even if you locate it exactly, it's not easy to
punch and start a drill there.

If the fastener is broken so that threads are showing above the hole
or in it, things are easier.

I made up some screws drilled in the lathe right down their centers.
If your screw is broken down in the hole, screw in one of your drilled
scrrews as a guide for your drill. If the screw is broken above the
surface, screw a long nut such as a coupling nut on it, then screw a
drilled screw into the coupling nut.

John Martin

John Martin wrote:

That is truly a problem, especially if the screw is broken off right
at the surface. The threads make it awfully tough to tell where the
true center is. And even if you locate it exactly, it's not easy to
punch and start a drill there.

When you are lucky, you can look at other features and determine a bolt pattern, spacing
from another hole, measure the mating item, ect.

May designers that use dimensions like 1.37 burn in hell.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

"Erik" wrote in message
...
In article ,
spaco wrote:

Do you have natural gas in Australia? I worked in a heat treating plant
years ago and we used a lot of natural gas for the furnaces. Each
furnace's feeder pipe had a drip leg to catch condensation before the
gas went into the valves. These drip legs are even put on residential
furnaces, by the way. Anyhow, since we used a LOT of gas, each drip leg
had a drain cock and it was the job of the maintenance crew to empty
these drip legs on a regular basis. They saved that condensate and used
it as we use PB Blaster, etc. It smelled a lot like PB Blaster. They
swore by it.

Pete Stanaitis

Way back when I was kid, a neighbor who was one of those old time, life
long 'real' mechanics of years past told me the original Liquid Wrench
was condensate drained from New York's gas street light plumbing system.

He said when it first hit the market it worked well enough, but reeked
bad enough to gag a buzzard on sight. Supposedly, it was some while
before they de-stenched to tolerable levels.

Also remember him saying it was a God send to steam locomotive and
marine techs.

Erik

The old liquid wrench did work well! I used to use it in the 60s on my old
English cars, and my collection of vintage vehicles. When they changed the
formula it was no where near as good.



Steve R.

On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 20:12:18 -0500, Brian Lawson
wrote:


On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:14:53 +1100, "Grumpy"
wrote:



I have heard a couple of referances to "Kroil "& "PBlaster " in this
thread, but to the ebst of my knowledge, neither are available in Australia.
What are they made of? I've used a mixture of diesel fuel and automatic
transmission oil a few times and it seems to work reasonably well.

SNIP


Hey Grumpy,

I have never seen Kroil here locally, but we can get PBblaster in a
spray-bomb. Big bucks.

Anyway, I was happy recently with a concoction noted here on RCM, a
50/50 mix of acetone and ATF. Worked for me on a 1/2" socket head cap
screw that was rusted in over it's 2" threaded length. Someone else
had actually broken the side out of the head in a previous attempt.
Soaked it for a couple of days in the mix, and used no heat.

I've made up a bottle full for future use, with a "mixture label" on
it so I won't forget.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
I buy PB Blaster at Walmart in Port Huron, MI $3.79/spray can.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"spaco" wrote in message
.. .
The other day, a guy asked me how to remove stuck bolts. It was a
general question; he didn't have a specific problem at that moment.
As I started to answer him, I kept having to backtrack, explaining that
a particular situation begets a particular range of solutions.

That got me to thinking about how pervasive this problem is to modern man
and how uncomfortable I am when I have to go about it.

So, I put up a webpage that focuses on simply defining the problem:

http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html

Right now I am in the process of reviving an old Onan 6.5KW RV-style
generator set and it has numerous stuck bolts. Some of them are steel
bolts, about 1/4-20 in size, stuck into aluminum. There is lots of rust.
In my googling around I have found references to "Bolt Extractor
Sockets".
Have any of you folks tried them and what have your experiences been?

And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?

Pete Stanaitis

PB Blaster. If that don't work, go to plan B. Let it sit for 24 hours,
and apply more than once if it looks like it evaporated off.

Steve

I am way late in this thread but I thought this was an interesting forum
post release agents:

http://www.ott-motorcycles.ca/index.php?topic=42258.0

3rd post down: The acetone+ATF mixture has everything beat including the
price.

--
Michael Koblic
Campbell River, BC

On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 22:59:08 -0800, the infamous "Michael Koblic"
scrawled the following:


"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"spaco" wrote in message
.. .
The other day, a guy asked me how to remove stuck bolts. It was a
general question; he didn't have a specific problem at that moment.
As I started to answer him, I kept having to backtrack, explaining that
a particular situation begets a particular range of solutions.

That got me to thinking about how pervasive this problem is to modern man
and how uncomfortable I am when I have to go about it.

So, I put up a webpage that focuses on simply defining the problem:

http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html

Right now I am in the process of reviving an old Onan 6.5KW RV-style
generator set and it has numerous stuck bolts. Some of them are steel
bolts, about 1/4-20 in size, stuck into aluminum. There is lots of rust.
In my googling around I have found references to "Bolt Extractor
Sockets".
Have any of you folks tried them and what have your experiences been?

And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?

Pete Stanaitis

PB Blaster. If that don't work, go to plan B. Let it sit for 24 hours,
and apply more than once if it looks like it evaporated off.

Steve

I am way late in this thread but I thought this was an interesting forum
post release agents:

http://www.ott-motorcycles.ca/index.php?topic=42258.0

3rd post down: The acetone+ATF mixture has everything beat including the
price.

Try Ed's Red, Mikey. It's that and more.
http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=9

--
"I believe that sex is one of the most beautiful, natural, wholesome things
that money can buy." --Tom Clancy

"spaco" wrote in message
snip
And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?
Pete Stanaitis

A friend of mine is a pilot for the airlines and he tells me
"The aircraft mechanics have some stuff they call "Mouse milk" that they swear
by, but despite requests from me they have never gave me any, so I don't know
what it is."
I DAGS and the first hit was http://www.mousemilk.com/
Does anybody have any experience with this stuff?
Art

On Dec 26, 11:59*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
"Steve B" wrote in message

...





"spaco" wrote in message
. ..
The other day, a guy asked me how to remove stuck bolts. *It was a
general question; he didn't have a specific problem at that moment.
* As I started to answer him, I kept having to backtrack, explaining that
a particular situation begets a particular range of solutions.

That got me to thinking about how pervasive this problem is to modern man
and how uncomfortable I am when I have to go about it.

So, I put up a webpage that focuses on simply defining the problem:

http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html

Right now I am in the process of reviving an old Onan 6.5KW RV-style
generator set and it has numerous stuck bolts. *Some of them are steel
bolts, about 1/4-20 in size, stuck into aluminum. *There is lots of rust.
* In my googling around I have found references to "Bolt Extractor
Sockets".
* Have any of you folks tried them and what have your experiences been?

And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?

Pete Stanaitis

PB Blaster. *If that don't work, go to plan B. *Let it sit for 24 hours,
and apply more than once if it looks like it evaporated off.

Steve

I am way late in this thread but I thought this was an interesting forum
post release agents:

http://www.ott-motorcycles.ca/index.php?topic=42258.0

3rd post down: The acetone+ATF mixture has everything beat including the
price.

--
Michael Koblic
Campbell River, BC- Hide quoted text -

Last problem I had was removing a tapered round barrel from a 50-year-
old Marlin 39. Nothing worked, so was going to use Kroil. None to be
found in the house, I knew I had gotten some, though. So mixed up
acetone/ATF 50/50 and soaked the thing for 4 days or so, wasn't in a
hurry. Put the barrel vise back on, put it in the 20 ton press to
hold it, put the receiver vise on it with the filler and pads and
smacked it with the deadblow, came right off. Was 50 years worth of .
22 gunk in the square threads. Found the can of Kroil a couple of
days later.

My usual stuff is LPS 1, but it's getting pretty steep, last can I
bought was $12. I first used it on some rusty bumper bolts, the truck
had come from Wisconsin and had been in the salty slop there for
several years. I could chin myself on my breaker bar, even with a
cheater pipe. Shot the nuts and washers with LPS 1 and let it sit
overnight. It had spread into a ring on the other side of the bumper
about 4" in diameter. After that, the nuts came off like they were
new, just used the regular ratchet wrench. Has been my first choice
of penetrant since. Was out of it for the job above, though.

Usually a touch of a propane torch followed by a rap with a hammer and
a shot of LPS 1 gets things moving, repeated if needed.

Stan

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 12:53:31 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"spaco" wrote in message
snip
And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?
Pete Stanaitis

A friend of mine is a pilot for the airlines and he tells me
"The aircraft mechanics have some stuff they call "Mouse milk" that they swear
by, but despite requests from me they have never gave me any, so I don't know
what it is."
I DAGS and the first hit was http://www.mousemilk.com/
Does anybody have any experience with this stuff?
Art




It works.